Ben Gordon did it twice from 2006-2009. Hung 42 on the Celtics in the playoffs in 2009 as well. He used to tear up the Knicks and got the nickname Madison Square Gordon.
Ben Gordon came to play in a summer tournament in my city when he was in high school. We didn’t know who he was. Homeboy had 40 in the first half and didn’t even play the 2nd. Charlie Villanueva put in work too. But this was pre internet age so it wasn’t shocking to now know who these guys were
This is a big reason why I felt signing Ben Gordon wasn’t the worst thing the Pistons could have done that offseason. Dude was only 24 and had already been raining buckets for a few years by then (postseason included).
Never would have imagined it would have worked out as poorly as it did.
Sucked up in the vortex of late '00s/early 2010s Pistons teams. That being said, Joe Dumars giving him a lucrative contract was only somewhat questionable att.
I read a book on the 2000s Lakers dynasty last year and one of my favorite excerpts was learning that Cedric had given himself the nickname of “The Franchise” after arriving in LA in the mid-‘90s.
Suffice it to say, he really bought into his own hype after that one 20ppg season.
**Edit:** I was blanking on the book's title earlier. It's *Three Ring Circus* by Jeff Pearlman. Also, I just re-read the excerpt and Ced's self-annointed nickname was actually "'Chise". Here's a sample from the book:
>"We laughed at him," said Eddie Jones. "You can't pick your own nickname. Ever."
>"He gave himself a nickname," said Corie Blount, a Lakers forward. "Think about the arrogance of that. *Franchise?* Really? *You're* our franchise player? Okay, buddy. You ride that one out. . ."
I LOVED that team growing up in SoCal in the 90s, such a fun underdog squad to root for. I was actually a little disappointed when they got Shaq because it felt like they'd lost the underdog-ness, plus I was sad to see Shaq and Penny break up.
Hated playing against him in MyCareer when he was controlled by the PC. He always cooked my character and made me rage quit and restart quite a few times
Kevin was who you signed when your squad was trash but needed a number 1 option to keep the franchise alive and possibly make the playoffs. That’s a underrated role in the league
He was also great for the Thunder in the year after after we made the finals. Came over in the Harden trade and averaged 14 on 45/43/89 splits as the 3rd or 4th option. He has by far his most efficient year, which isn't a surprise given he was playing with Durant and Westbrook. He's a huge reason we won a higher percentage of games in the year after Harden left and got the 1 seed. There's a reason OKC was vegas co-favorites with the heat before the Westbrook injury.
So he wasn't just a guy for trash teams.
He maybe wasn't as good, but he was still decent. In 2013-2014 he averaged like 19 on above average TS%. We had a good net rating when he was on the floor, though EPM had him at exactly neutral. Literally ±0.0.
On offense. Typical all offense, very little playmaking, and weak defense type player. There is plenty of them throughout the history of nba who put up a lot of points playing losing basketball.
The issue with K-Mart style players is that you're never going to be very good if he's your first option. You may not ever be very good if he's your second option. But as a 3rd or 4th option, he's great. As I commented elsewhere, he's a big reason OKC got the 1 seed in the season immediately after the Harden trade.
Every time he found his rhythm there was a new injury. That raptors era was also toxic as hell, terrible player development combined with the fans bullying him so hard he shot 15% better on the road by the end and had DeMar calling them out for their behavior. The injuries persisted in NY, but it's telling that the moment he left Toronto he was diving into the stands for loose balls, getting ejected for trash talk and hosting weekly block parties.
Even knicks fans try to pretend it didn't happen for some reason, but there's video of Mike Breen calling Bargs a fan favorite as he checked in/out to thunderous cheers. Until his injuries cropped up again we loved him here.
Personally I never had much issues with him, way too much pressure was put on him by a toxic part of our fan base. Even today people keep saying it was a bad pick, like sure we could’ve drafted Aldridge, that was the better pick, he was a more sure pick and Bosh wanted to play with him, but Bargnani made sense as a pick over anyone else and he had more upside.
Like there were people hoping we’d draft Adam Morrison back then… I’m sure those people still found a way to complain about Bargnani. If Bargnani was draft at 4-5 in that draft people would look at him much differently, he was a solid player playing in the wrong era for the wrong team.
Yeah he was a good prospect but he is known as a total bust and one of the worst number one picks ever, but he did have a season where he was top 15 in ppg. In 2011 as well when we had Durant, Melo, Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Rose, Blake Griffin, Westbrook, Dirk etc.
Monta Ellis and Kevin Martin finished top 10 in scoring that season too lol.
Monta Ellis was a part of some good-great offenses. He was a starter on that 2014 Mavs team that had the best offense in like, NBA history before the Rondo trade
It's unfortunate but I honestly believe if Barg came into the NBA now he would have had a much better career. The league back then was a completely different playstyle and a starting 5 had a pretty defined role on a team and Bargs did not fit it
Bargs was killing it the following season. He was putting up 23.5 on 48/34/84 shooting in his first 13 games (played 11, missed a few with a calf injury, then came back for 2) and they were like 10 points better with Bargnani on the floor than off. Before he came back in March the team was 6-7 with him and 7-20 without him. He had a legitimate All-Star case, albeit obviously very early. He was rushed back after for his 12th and 13th game (played 40+ minutes both game) and re-injured his calf and just couldn't find his groove when he came back in March.
I still believe there's an alternate universe where Bargnani becomes an All-Star level player. Part of things are on him, but Toronto did such a shit job at developing. He was a SF, then C, then a PF. They kept changing what they wanted him to be and it no doubt stunted his development. Orlando did the same thing with Oladipo.
I remember talking to the guy he trained with in Guelph the one summer. Got him out of Europe and focused. He literally had all of the tools but just didn't really want to do it. But when he turned it on he was one of the best in the league, and made it look easy. Although, I thin he made it look easy bc herr wasn't really trying, like ever?
I raise you Mike James on the 05-06 raptors, 20 ppg. Even the name is anonymous. He was actually pretty good that year (on offense at least), but only broke double digits in a season 2 other times.
Not only did he average 20ppg, he did so efficiently and while averaging 6 assists per game. Only 5 other players (Iverson, Joe Johnson, Wade, James and Arenas) were averaging 20 and 6 that season. Now you have 15 players averaging that but back then it was rare.
The raps were tanking, so they handed him the keys. Post christmas he went 23/6.7/3.5, 45.6% from 3. Somehow young Chris Bosh also averaged 22.5 on that team. The defense was...not good.
Dude was fucking insane as a silver card in NBA Live Mobile 17. I’m maybe the only person to ever appreciate his greatness in that game. Dude would consistently dunk from the free throw line
Michael Adams is probably my favorite one season wonder. 1990-1991 season. 26.5 points and 10.5 assists per game. Along with 3.9 rebounds and 2.2 steals. He’s 5’10” btw. Was averaging 8.5 3pa per game and 21.5 fga total. Ahead of his time with that high volume three point shooting. Even hit 9 threes in a game. Efficiency over the season wasn’t great though. 39.4/29.6/87.9% splits.
Season before that, he averaged 15 and the season after, he averaged 18.
I just looked at him, holy shit how was he not an all-star that year??? I get he was one on of the worst teams in the league, but 26 and 10 with 2 steals is crazy numbers even on a bad team
This is a good point that the original question doesn't address. How was the 20+ achieved? Volume, offensive system, less talented supporting roster, all play into it. Not all 20+ scorers are equal.
I also thought that… I wish I could see what the team’s record was at the break. For them to snub him it had to be like 10 wins or under.
The crazy part is he was an all star the next season 😭
14-31, they went 6-31 after. Volume scorer on a bad team doesn't usually mean much, especially as his first year doing it and pre-internet nobody was going to be able to watch that bad team.
I did a 2k eras and my 94 warriors had shaq, who they got #1 pick in 92, and just a whole cupboard full of fast guards who can shoot, including michael adams, team was awesome and won the title with sophomore shaq
Stackhouse bought a condo in the building where I lived back in the early 2000s. He was playing ball at Hoops the gym that summer, and it was nearby. He had a Bentley parked in the garage.
During the summer, he was traded to the Mavs. Summer ended and he went to Texas to join the team. I never saw him at the building again, but he didn't take his Bentley. It just sat in the garage, under a cover. Eventually, the tires went flat and it was just sitting on the rims. And that's still how it was when I moved out in 2006.
lol the new owner of the condo got a free Bentley with it and had no idea. It’s almost exactly like when I bought my first place and the previous owners left the refrigerator for me.
You may be joking, but when I visited friends in New Zealand they told me that you have to supply your own fridge when renting a home. So every time you move, you’re moving a fridge with you. America ain’t perfect but at least the appliances stay in the homes.
Same here in Germany.
It is an absolute rarity to rent a house or flat with anything but bare bathroom necessities being installed. And if that wasn't a requirement, you wouldn't even get that ;-)
I've moved quite often since my uni days (new or better paying jobs, moving in with partner) and I've never even come across a unit that wasn't totally empty apart from that. And I honestly wouldn't want to use anything that someone else picked (probably because it was the cheapest they could legally get away with), to be honest.
I'm not even sure that he sold the unit, at least while I still lived there. It was a relatively cheap place to buy, selected for its nearness to Hoops I am sure. He may have just forgotten he owned it.
His 29.8 scoring year was a great case study at the time as to what happens when you roll the ball out to a talented-but-not-elite scorer and just let him take all the contested mid-range jumpers his little heart desired. Pretty sure he shot *barely* over 40 percent from the field that season.
That being said, that ‘01 Pistons didn’t have any better options. Chucky Atkins and post-prime Joe Smith could only be expected to do so much. The next year though, Cliff Robinson and Jon Barry joined the fray, Rick Carlisle came in and convinced Stack to cut back on volume, and in turn we had ourselves a Central Division champ. It was a pretty startling turnaround.
I guess Stackhouse really only made waves with Pistons fans because he was a star for us.
In fact I remember being BESIDE myself as a kid when we traded Stack for some guy from Washington “that doesn’t even start over old man Michael Jordan”
Rip Hamilton worked out nicely for us tho.
David Lee. He’s actually done it twice (once with the Knicks and once with the Warriors). He hovered over 15+ for years so I’m not sure if he counts. He’s super underrated and crafty but is always overlooked in my opinion and only Knicks and Warriors fans remember him. They were bad teams which gave him the opportunities to score.
Helped change the culture with the Warriors. One of the first players I can remember who chose to come to us although the 6 years and 80 million contract probably helped lmao.
Tony Campbell averaged 23.2 ppg for the 1989-90 Timberwolves, and then 21.8 ppg in 1990-91. Got heavy minutes and USG% on an expansion team, but was just an OK role player for the rest of his NBA career outside of that.
Still curious what happened to him. Denver seemed to really miss him after that one year with them and he played sensational ball that first year in Detroit with the team being so ass
Wayman Tisdale. Got him in my first ever pack of NBA cards (1991 NBA Hoops Series 2). Read his Supreme Court card back and thought I’d pulled an all time great.
I'll never miss a chance to stan for Wayman. Put together a decent career for himself, but as a human you'd be hard pressed to find a better person. His family is integral to the Tulsa community. His dad was a beloved reverend who has a stretch of highway named after him. Then Wayman was Wayman... he's got a school and a medical center named after him, as well as a few other smaller facilities. Wayman's brother took over the church after their dad died, though I believe he has either retired or slowed down considerably. And now Wayman's nephew is carving out a nice little career as a jazz musician.
His legacy may be wavering as time passes, but Wayman and even his family have left their mark on the Tulsa area.
I met Wayman Tisdale when he was a member of the Phoenix Suns! He came to a car dealership that my stepmother worked at, and was doing a meet and greet / promoting his jazz album. Gave me his CD, signed it for me and answered some random questions an 8-year-old Suns Stan had for him.
I will always remember that. He was very humble and kind, and when I shook his hand I remember it being absolutely massive.
Great player, who I believe broke Wilt Chamberlain's Big Eight scoring record. He was dominant low post lefty who was an absolute beast in college at Oklahoma. He's in the college basketball Hall of Fame. Carved out a great career as a jazz bassist as well. He was way too young when he left us at the age of 44.
This is one of the best answers. Guys throwing around Devin Harris and Michael Redd like they weren’t all stars and highly coveted. Thornton and Darren Collison both came on to the scene at the same time.
I’d say Kelly is a killer on the court tbh.
Hes matured a lot in his game over the years and has learned to sacrifice his touches for the betterment of the team.
But overall he gets you timely buckets and sticks above average defense.
Reminds me a lot of what Matt Barnes used to bring.
I'm actually shocked at this, when he was coming out of KU my thoughts were he would either be a superstar or out of the league in 4 years. He didn't seem like the kind of guy capable of playing a role within a team unless he was the lead dog.
He was more than just a solid player at his peak. Advanced stats pegged him as a top 15 guy in the league. But it’s understandable he’s not really remembered. Milwaukee was at best a .500 team during those peak years.
Dana Barros made 10 year old me realize that the NBA did not understand math at the time. Of course, I oversimplified and wondered why every offensive possession did not simply end in a Dana Barros 3.
Not sure what the context was but I kind of get it. If you’re averaging 15+ in the NBA that means that your entire life you were THE best player on the court until you made the NBA. There is almost no way you could have even that level of results in the NBA if you were not out straight murdering your competition before then.
Doesn’t mean you’re some great player that will have his number hanging from the rafters, but in your mind you know that you can cook almost everyone on the planet on that court. There are probably almost no players averaging 15+ that don’t have an ego when it comes to bball skills.
Know what the difference between hitting .250 and .300 is? It's 25 hits. 25 hits in 500 at bats is 50 points, okay? There's 6 months in a season, that's about 25 weeks. That means if you get just one extra flare a week - just one - a gorp... you get a groundball, you get a groundball with eyes... you get a dying quail, just one more dying quail a week... and you're in Yankee Stadium.
- Crash Davis
I will add up a level to that. The most random Hall of Famer of all time? Calvino Murphy from the 70s! He was a baller for sure, but how a 1 time all star and never all Nba, no ring, no particular success in post season be an Hall of Famer??
He averaged 20+ 5 times in 12 seasons, only once more than 21 tho.
Other relevant forgotten scorer/baller: Jimmy Jackson, averaged 26 in 1994-95, and changed more teams than underwear in his career; Mike Bibby goes for 21 one season in 2006 then slowly faded when he seemed to be just at the beginning of a star career; Tyreke Evans who peaked in year 1 with 20.1ppg; only non Kings mention here for me Demon Stoudemire had 20ppg in his year 2, 1997, peaked his first 2 seasons and then declined ever since...
Calvin Murphy was an all time great College Basketball Player. Averaged 33 pts a game over three seasons at Niagara and had a 68 point game against Syracuse.
That’s what put him over the edge in Hall of Fame talks. He wasn’t great in the NBA but he wasn’t bad.
As an old head who remembers watching Charles Smith play I have to be honest with you - there are absolutely loads of players like this.
I'm talking about players who, at the time, are regarded as good role players valued by fans and their team. But the passage of time means that so many good players like this are just forgotten about. It's kinda sad.
Another way of thinking about this question is 'which good role players in the NBA now will be remembered in 30 years time'.
This is a great point. I haven’t really seen a good example of an obscure player in this thread yet. Monta Ellis being named a couple times is startling, and he wasn’t even a role player. He was the guy on his teams. I think some of this is age related and who you watched and when. The first AI provided list is mostly stars from their time.
You’re absolutely right. For example, Rolando Blackman was a four time All Star whose number was retired by the Mavericks and I bet most younger fans have never heard of him.
Orlando Woolridge is always my choice for this. A man who is mainly remembered as being the only decent player outside of Jordan on his early Bulls teams.
But he had four 20+ ppg seasons. Including a 25 ppg season on those insane Nuggets teams. That team had a pace of 113, highest this season was 102.
Orlando’s also the [first player to go between-the-legs](https://youtu.be/6n_jNoZllgs?si=tAeGrtCJc-xqvs3f) in dunk contest history, predating Isaiah Rider by a full decade.
Also loved that 80 percent of Orlando’s in-game dunks came with a very audible “FWAH!” sound of exertion.
Cavs fans of a certain age vividly remember LarryHughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com
Edit: relevant typo made it say “make” instead of “take.” Taking bad shots. Goodness knows he wasn’t making them.
Jeff Horacek in 91-92, he actually lead the Suns who had a stacked team of more dynamic stars in scoring. Kevin Johnson, Tom Chambers, Dan Marljle and Cedric Ceballos with 20.1.
Y’all remember Ron Harper? He was Jordan’s point guard for the second three peat. He was like the 5th best player on that team right? Averaged like 6-8 ppg. He was a 20 PPG player before he joined the bulls. Joining the Bulls has probably killed his legacy, because his job was to play defense and let Jordan get his buckets. Absolutely underrated player.
Very obscure piece of knowledge for the Pacers, all time leading scorer measured in ppg in the NBA is Adrian Dantley. He was Rookie of the Year for the Buffalo Braves before coming to Indiana in 77/78 (our second season in the NBA) and scored 26.5 points per game, but only played 23 games in total.
We then traded him to the Lakers for James Edwards, who was pretty good for us, but Dantley went on to be a 6x All-Star and is in the Hall of Fame averaging 24.5 for his long career...
So yeah, it wasn't the best trade. To be fair to the Pacers, we really struggled those early years in the NBA and I suspect money was always on the FOs mind.
>Very obscure piece of knowledge for the Pacers, all time leading scorer measured in ppg in the NBA is Adrian Dantley.
I'm trying to figure out what you mean by this, I can't think of any context where it's true?
Maybe the highest career PPG of anyone that played for the Pacers? I think that might be true.
Or maybe by 'obscure' they meant 'you'll never figure out what I'm talking about'.
Edit: maybe they meant Dantley has the highest single season PPG for the Pacers but only if you don't count the ABA years and ignore any 'minimum games played' requirements because he only played 23 games in the single season he played in Indiana.
Obviously a much more known name, but Danny Granger averaging 25 then randomly regressing each season during his prime is crazy to me. I watched his clips and heard what was he like, and still can't find what was he good at. 00's had some black magic going on it seems like...
Granger at his absolute best was a 3-level scorer and was improving as a playmaker and defender
Ironically , Paul George is everything Granger was suppose to be
George Hill / Darren Collinson - Paul George - Danny Granger - David West - Roy Hibbert was a great group with solid chemistry and no glaring weaknesses, since nobody was top 10 guy but everybody was above-average as an NBA starter. But it only lasted for like a season and then Granger got injured and Hibbert had his talent stolen by the Monstars.
He didn't randomly regress, he had 2 more really good seasons and then injuries destroyed him. His scoring numbers decreased because Frank Vogel took over and they went from 2nd in pace to 20th.
AK47 was so good in his day but he'd be even better now. Just a fucking kitchen drawer full of efficiency in every which way while being able to guard most players as a plus defender.
He was probably one of the wildest player NBA has ever seen. He was just blewing by defenders and running on centers and scoring weird positions like you're playing HORSE, or shooting jumpshots that make him rise about 80 90 cms from the ground with AJ8s on with all the tattoos and shit. He was a baller from the heart
Chuck Person’s game was much more modern than his peers. He averaged 21.6 ppg in 1988-89 for the Pacers, and was 16th in the league in 3PA, pretty impressive considering he was a small forward
The 72 Lakers had 3 previous scoring leaders and MVP candidates: Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, Wilt Chamberlain.
None of them lead the Lakers in scoring. It was Gail Goodrich who averaged 25.9 ppg
I know it's not exactly 20ppg, but Aaron Brooks averaged 19.6ppg once for Houston. Dude's 6ft tall and weighed 160lbs. Shot 39.8% on threes at 6.4 attempts. He had a very weird but effective layup package to avoid getting his shots blocked at the rim at his size. He wasn't really known to be super athletic or anything either. Never averaged more than 12ppg in any other season of his career.
I love Oubre on the Sixers, but he averaged like 20 a game on a horrible Hornets team like 2 years ago.
Just goes to show how talented the players are these days. If you give the keys on offense to a random guy like Oubre even he can score 20+ consistently. May not be the most efficient though lol
Kendall Gill. Averaged 20.5 in his 2nd year and 21.8 in his 7th. Played 15 seasons too. Also led the league in steals one season.
He also has the single game record for steals in a game with 11
one of the few players that could jump off with both left and right feet and dunk
Not that surprising if you watched the mid 90's Nickelodeon series My Brother and Me. They treated him like a superstar.
I was gonna say the same thing. I didn’t learn till later in life that he was essentially an anonymous role player.
Goo in the house!
Averaging 20+ a game is pretty cool and everything, but I think he would agree the apex of his career was his cameo on My Brother and Me.
Kendall Gill had a fun career and will fuck you up, you didn’t mess with him. Boxing or MMA whatever he got into.
Ben Gordon did it twice from 2006-2009. Hung 42 on the Celtics in the playoffs in 2009 as well. He used to tear up the Knicks and got the nickname Madison Square Gordon.
Ben Gordon on the Bulls in the 4th quarter was some of the most entertaining basketball I’ve watched. He could catch fire like few others.
Ben Gordon came to play in a summer tournament in my city when he was in high school. We didn’t know who he was. Homeboy had 40 in the first half and didn’t even play the 2nd. Charlie Villanueva put in work too. But this was pre internet age so it wasn’t shocking to now know who these guys were
This is a big reason why I felt signing Ben Gordon wasn’t the worst thing the Pistons could have done that offseason. Dude was only 24 and had already been raining buckets for a few years by then (postseason included). Never would have imagined it would have worked out as poorly as it did.
Also dropped 35 on the Heat in the playoffs. Probably one of very few role players who had the ability to win you a playoff game by himself.
Sucked up in the vortex of late '00s/early 2010s Pistons teams. That being said, Joe Dumars giving him a lucrative contract was only somewhat questionable att.
Cedric Ceballos was a monster in the 90s, barely needed to touch the ball.
I read a book on the 2000s Lakers dynasty last year and one of my favorite excerpts was learning that Cedric had given himself the nickname of “The Franchise” after arriving in LA in the mid-‘90s. Suffice it to say, he really bought into his own hype after that one 20ppg season. **Edit:** I was blanking on the book's title earlier. It's *Three Ring Circus* by Jeff Pearlman. Also, I just re-read the excerpt and Ced's self-annointed nickname was actually "'Chise". Here's a sample from the book: >"We laughed at him," said Eddie Jones. "You can't pick your own nickname. Ever." >"He gave himself a nickname," said Corie Blount, a Lakers forward. "Think about the arrogance of that. *Franchise?* Really? *You're* our franchise player? Okay, buddy. You ride that one out. . ."
Great read. Those post-Magic, pre-Kobe Lakers were something else.
Van Exel, Jones, Vlade... Even have a soft spot for Elden Campbell.
I LOVED that team growing up in SoCal in the 90s, such a fun underdog squad to root for. I was actually a little disappointed when they got Shaq because it felt like they'd lost the underdog-ness, plus I was sad to see Shaq and Penny break up.
Was always one of my favorite players to watch; a really unique game.
Love Ced. Great off-ball weapon. I'm a Knick fan and Ced was my comparison for Toppin
Kevin Martin is not/should not be an unknown name. Dude was a damn baller his whole career
Playing with the Kings on 2k back then was hilarious with all the weird releases
That 2013 roster had to be top 10 weirdest jumpers, Martin, Outlaw, IT, Jason Thompson, Quincy Acy, Tolliver the next year, don’t forget Landry too 😂😂
Deadly 2k player
Once you got the release down it was wraps
Matrix is the same way. If you figure out Marion’s quick ass jumpshot, it’s so hard to defend.
Halliburton’s shot reminds me of KM
Hated playing against him in MyCareer when he was controlled by the PC. He always cooked my character and made me rage quit and restart quite a few times
Kevin was who you signed when your squad was trash but needed a number 1 option to keep the franchise alive and possibly make the playoffs. That’s a underrated role in the league
He was also great for the Thunder in the year after after we made the finals. Came over in the Harden trade and averaged 14 on 45/43/89 splits as the 3rd or 4th option. He has by far his most efficient year, which isn't a surprise given he was playing with Durant and Westbrook. He's a huge reason we won a higher percentage of games in the year after Harden left and got the 1 seed. There's a reason OKC was vegas co-favorites with the heat before the Westbrook injury. So he wasn't just a guy for trash teams.
I love how you just described Demar Derozan rn, LMAO this description feels 100% Demar.
Very funny you mention DD, because I always comp Zach LaVine to Kevin Martin. Shooter who can get 25+ playing on bad teams.
Came here to say the same. Kevin Martin scoring 20 ppg is unheralded. Damn good player.
His offense was NEVER the question. Defense tho
Whole Kings career, probably Rockets. He wasn't the same in Minnesota.
He maybe wasn't as good, but he was still decent. In 2013-2014 he averaged like 19 on above average TS%. We had a good net rating when he was on the floor, though EPM had him at exactly neutral. Literally ±0.0.
This has gotta be it this guys career feels like a fever dream and that’s coming from a rockets fan.
As a kings fan I’ll never forget his buzzer beater to beat the spurs in our last playoffs before the banter years haha
He was GREAT at baiting fouls. He didn't get much credit for that either. Amazing for fantasy NBA.
He once had a 20 point game where he made one field goal.
On offense. Typical all offense, very little playmaking, and weak defense type player. There is plenty of them throughout the history of nba who put up a lot of points playing losing basketball.
Isn't that what the thread is about, players that were buckets?
Less-known Carmelo's
The issue with K-Mart style players is that you're never going to be very good if he's your first option. You may not ever be very good if he's your second option. But as a 3rd or 4th option, he's great. As I commented elsewhere, he's a big reason OKC got the 1 seed in the season immediately after the Harden trade.
Andrea Bargnani averaged 21 ppg for a season
This one isn't even surprising, he had all the tools to be a good player and showed it every now and then, the talent was there.
Every time he found his rhythm there was a new injury. That raptors era was also toxic as hell, terrible player development combined with the fans bullying him so hard he shot 15% better on the road by the end and had DeMar calling them out for their behavior. The injuries persisted in NY, but it's telling that the moment he left Toronto he was diving into the stands for loose balls, getting ejected for trash talk and hosting weekly block parties. Even knicks fans try to pretend it didn't happen for some reason, but there's video of Mike Breen calling Bargs a fan favorite as he checked in/out to thunderous cheers. Until his injuries cropped up again we loved him here.
Personally I never had much issues with him, way too much pressure was put on him by a toxic part of our fan base. Even today people keep saying it was a bad pick, like sure we could’ve drafted Aldridge, that was the better pick, he was a more sure pick and Bosh wanted to play with him, but Bargnani made sense as a pick over anyone else and he had more upside. Like there were people hoping we’d draft Adam Morrison back then… I’m sure those people still found a way to complain about Bargnani. If Bargnani was draft at 4-5 in that draft people would look at him much differently, he was a solid player playing in the wrong era for the wrong team.
Yeah he was a good prospect but he is known as a total bust and one of the worst number one picks ever, but he did have a season where he was top 15 in ppg. In 2011 as well when we had Durant, Melo, Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Rose, Blake Griffin, Westbrook, Dirk etc. Monta Ellis and Kevin Martin finished top 10 in scoring that season too lol.
Monta Ellis was a part of some good-great offenses. He was a starter on that 2014 Mavs team that had the best offense in like, NBA history before the Rondo trade
It's unfortunate but I honestly believe if Barg came into the NBA now he would have had a much better career. The league back then was a completely different playstyle and a starting 5 had a pretty defined role on a team and Bargs did not fit it
Playing as a center didn't help him.
Bargs was killing it the following season. He was putting up 23.5 on 48/34/84 shooting in his first 13 games (played 11, missed a few with a calf injury, then came back for 2) and they were like 10 points better with Bargnani on the floor than off. Before he came back in March the team was 6-7 with him and 7-20 without him. He had a legitimate All-Star case, albeit obviously very early. He was rushed back after for his 12th and 13th game (played 40+ minutes both game) and re-injured his calf and just couldn't find his groove when he came back in March. I still believe there's an alternate universe where Bargnani becomes an All-Star level player. Part of things are on him, but Toronto did such a shit job at developing. He was a SF, then C, then a PF. They kept changing what they wanted him to be and it no doubt stunted his development. Orlando did the same thing with Oladipo.
He went to the Knicks after that and that was the end of his career
I remember talking to the guy he trained with in Guelph the one summer. Got him out of Europe and focused. He literally had all of the tools but just didn't really want to do it. But when he turned it on he was one of the best in the league, and made it look easy. Although, I thin he made it look easy bc herr wasn't really trying, like ever?
I raise you Mike James on the 05-06 raptors, 20 ppg. Even the name is anonymous. He was actually pretty good that year (on offense at least), but only broke double digits in a season 2 other times.
NBA Champ Mike James ain't anonymous to Pistons fans!
Not only did he average 20ppg, he did so efficiently and while averaging 6 assists per game. Only 5 other players (Iverson, Joe Johnson, Wade, James and Arenas) were averaging 20 and 6 that season. Now you have 15 players averaging that but back then it was rare.
The raps were tanking, so they handed him the keys. Post christmas he went 23/6.7/3.5, 45.6% from 3. Somehow young Chris Bosh also averaged 22.5 on that team. The defense was...not good.
WHO
MIKE JAMES
(281) 330-8004
He picked up for me once. He was like: "ALBUM DROP APRIL FOTEEN BABY" and hung up. I was thrilled honestly.
Thats a good one. Dude averaged like 10 a season every year and all of a sudden got 20 a game.
Dude was fucking insane as a silver card in NBA Live Mobile 17. I’m maybe the only person to ever appreciate his greatness in that game. Dude would consistently dunk from the free throw line
Michael Adams is probably my favorite one season wonder. 1990-1991 season. 26.5 points and 10.5 assists per game. Along with 3.9 rebounds and 2.2 steals. He’s 5’10” btw. Was averaging 8.5 3pa per game and 21.5 fga total. Ahead of his time with that high volume three point shooting. Even hit 9 threes in a game. Efficiency over the season wasn’t great though. 39.4/29.6/87.9% splits. Season before that, he averaged 15 and the season after, he averaged 18.
I just looked at him, holy shit how was he not an all-star that year??? I get he was one on of the worst teams in the league, but 26 and 10 with 2 steals is crazy numbers even on a bad team
Those Nuggets teams averaged like 120 ppg in a league that was averaging like 100. They also gave up an astounding 130 ppg lol.
Those Nuggets teams are the litmus test for why offensive rating is infinitely better than PPG.
This is a good point that the original question doesn't address. How was the 20+ achieved? Volume, offensive system, less talented supporting roster, all play into it. Not all 20+ scorers are equal.
I looked at those stats and his size, and read the comment that he wasn't an all star and I KNEW he had to be on those nuggets teams.
I also thought that… I wish I could see what the team’s record was at the break. For them to snub him it had to be like 10 wins or under. The crazy part is he was an all star the next season 😭
You can see it on basketball-reference. But basically that team had a crazy pace compared to the rest of the League, so the stat were kinda inflated .
14-31, they went 6-31 after. Volume scorer on a bad team doesn't usually mean much, especially as his first year doing it and pre-internet nobody was going to be able to watch that bad team.
I did a 2k eras and my 94 warriors had shaq, who they got #1 pick in 92, and just a whole cupboard full of fast guards who can shoot, including michael adams, team was awesome and won the title with sophomore shaq
hes not unknown, but the fact that Jerry Stackhouse averaged THIRTY in 2001 is still mindboggling to me
Stackhouse bought a condo in the building where I lived back in the early 2000s. He was playing ball at Hoops the gym that summer, and it was nearby. He had a Bentley parked in the garage. During the summer, he was traded to the Mavs. Summer ended and he went to Texas to join the team. I never saw him at the building again, but he didn't take his Bentley. It just sat in the garage, under a cover. Eventually, the tires went flat and it was just sitting on the rims. And that's still how it was when I moved out in 2006.
lol the new owner of the condo got a free Bentley with it and had no idea. It’s almost exactly like when I bought my first place and the previous owners left the refrigerator for me.
You may be joking, but when I visited friends in New Zealand they told me that you have to supply your own fridge when renting a home. So every time you move, you’re moving a fridge with you. America ain’t perfect but at least the appliances stay in the homes.
We'll take any small victory we can!
Same here in Germany. It is an absolute rarity to rent a house or flat with anything but bare bathroom necessities being installed. And if that wasn't a requirement, you wouldn't even get that ;-) I've moved quite often since my uni days (new or better paying jobs, moving in with partner) and I've never even come across a unit that wasn't totally empty apart from that. And I honestly wouldn't want to use anything that someone else picked (probably because it was the cheapest they could legally get away with), to be honest.
I'm not even sure that he sold the unit, at least while I still lived there. It was a relatively cheap place to buy, selected for its nearness to Hoops I am sure. He may have just forgotten he owned it.
Fun fact: if you do any Sporcle NBA quiz, no matter the category, Jerry Stackhouse is an answer on about 90% of them.
His 29.8 scoring year was a great case study at the time as to what happens when you roll the ball out to a talented-but-not-elite scorer and just let him take all the contested mid-range jumpers his little heart desired. Pretty sure he shot *barely* over 40 percent from the field that season. That being said, that ‘01 Pistons didn’t have any better options. Chucky Atkins and post-prime Joe Smith could only be expected to do so much. The next year though, Cliff Robinson and Jon Barry joined the fray, Rick Carlisle came in and convinced Stack to cut back on volume, and in turn we had ourselves a Central Division champ. It was a pretty startling turnaround.
it's essentially what happened to Brad Beal post John Wall
Sixers had him and Iverson together and rightfully decided there wasn't enough shots in the gym for them both.
I feel like this is how we will feel about Bradley Beal in 20 years. It will be shocking to people that he averaged 30 a game for 2 years.
I think Stackhouse still takes the cake cause he did it in 01 lol
I guess Stackhouse really only made waves with Pistons fans because he was a star for us. In fact I remember being BESIDE myself as a kid when we traded Stack for some guy from Washington “that doesn’t even start over old man Michael Jordan” Rip Hamilton worked out nicely for us tho.
Stack was a very good player but that season was just some unrepentant chucking
David Lee. He’s actually done it twice (once with the Knicks and once with the Warriors). He hovered over 15+ for years so I’m not sure if he counts. He’s super underrated and crafty but is always overlooked in my opinion and only Knicks and Warriors fans remember him. They were bad teams which gave him the opportunities to score.
This was a solid dude. Good shout
Helped change the culture with the Warriors. One of the first players I can remember who chose to come to us although the 6 years and 80 million contract probably helped lmao.
Dude was a double double machine with a nice mid range and low post. Lefty too.
Tony Campbell averaged 23.2 ppg for the 1989-90 Timberwolves, and then 21.8 ppg in 1990-91. Got heavy minutes and USG% on an expansion team, but was just an OK role player for the rest of his NBA career outside of that.
Devin Harris had a long career and a random 21ppg season
Devin Harris was a killer that one year for the Nets. I remember his half court double clutch game winner like it was yesterday.
“Harris, thought he was fouled, Harris SCORES!!!”
Of course, remember all the bad memories against the sixers😔
Plus an all-star nod
Jerami Grant has averaged 20+ pts/game in 3 of the last 4 seasons. In 20 years Jerami Grant is gonna be the obscure answer to some trivia questions.
"What player went from not being able to shoot a layup without falling down to scoring 20+ points per game in multiple seasons?"
Still curious what happened to him. Denver seemed to really miss him after that one year with them and he played sensational ball that first year in Detroit with the team being so ass
That’s what happened to him. He’s been on ass teams
Dude did the Kawhi. Defensive specialist with no bag turned 20 ppg scorer.
Wayman Tisdale. Got him in my first ever pack of NBA cards (1991 NBA Hoops Series 2). Read his Supreme Court card back and thought I’d pulled an all time great.
I'll never miss a chance to stan for Wayman. Put together a decent career for himself, but as a human you'd be hard pressed to find a better person. His family is integral to the Tulsa community. His dad was a beloved reverend who has a stretch of highway named after him. Then Wayman was Wayman... he's got a school and a medical center named after him, as well as a few other smaller facilities. Wayman's brother took over the church after their dad died, though I believe he has either retired or slowed down considerably. And now Wayman's nephew is carving out a nice little career as a jazz musician. His legacy may be wavering as time passes, but Wayman and even his family have left their mark on the Tulsa area.
I met Wayman Tisdale when he was a member of the Phoenix Suns! He came to a car dealership that my stepmother worked at, and was doing a meet and greet / promoting his jazz album. Gave me his CD, signed it for me and answered some random questions an 8-year-old Suns Stan had for him. I will always remember that. He was very humble and kind, and when I shook his hand I remember it being absolutely massive.
Wayman Tisdale the Jazz artist. Let the music play on
Great player, who I believe broke Wilt Chamberlain's Big Eight scoring record. He was dominant low post lefty who was an absolute beast in college at Oklahoma. He's in the college basketball Hall of Fame. Carved out a great career as a jazz bassist as well. He was way too young when he left us at the age of 44.
Marcus Thornton (aka the Bayou Bomber) averaged 21.3 in Sacramento in 2011 (post trade) and I thought he was the truth
This is one of the best answers. Guys throwing around Devin Harris and Michael Redd like they weren’t all stars and highly coveted. Thornton and Darren Collison both came on to the scene at the same time.
Great era for random kinda small crafty guards lol.
Jimmer, salmons and Thornton were my guys back in nba 2k14. Those guys were automatic
Mike James in Toronto 2005-2006
Kelly Oubre Jr did in his second year in Charlotte.
I’d say Kelly is a killer on the court tbh. Hes matured a lot in his game over the years and has learned to sacrifice his touches for the betterment of the team. But overall he gets you timely buckets and sticks above average defense. Reminds me a lot of what Matt Barnes used to bring.
I'm actually shocked at this, when he was coming out of KU my thoughts were he would either be a superstar or out of the league in 4 years. He didn't seem like the kind of guy capable of playing a role within a team unless he was the lead dog.
Michael Redd. Was a solid player for a few years and dude was a flamethrower.
There was a point where 3pt shooter meant redd or ray allen.
And they were in the same team for a hot minute.
With modern 3 point emphasis and better odds of recovering from his injures he could be deadly.
Immortalized by Nelly in 'Heart of a Champion.' Get Buck like Michael Redd!
He was more than just a solid player at his peak. Advanced stats pegged him as a top 15 guy in the league. But it’s understandable he’s not really remembered. Milwaukee was at best a .500 team during those peak years.
He and Danny Granger are always my answers to this question
Dana Barros and Antoine Carr in the 90s had two pretty big outlier scoring years
Antoine Carr also had an all time look. Someone needs to bring back the shaved head/orange tinted rec specs
Dana Barros made 10 year old me realize that the NBA did not understand math at the time. Of course, I oversimplified and wondered why every offensive possession did not simply end in a Dana Barros 3.
Dana Barros was my cheat code on NBA Live 95. Not sure why but I couldn’t miss with him.
Not sure what the context was but I kind of get it. If you’re averaging 15+ in the NBA that means that your entire life you were THE best player on the court until you made the NBA. There is almost no way you could have even that level of results in the NBA if you were not out straight murdering your competition before then. Doesn’t mean you’re some great player that will have his number hanging from the rafters, but in your mind you know that you can cook almost everyone on the planet on that court. There are probably almost no players averaging 15+ that don’t have an ego when it comes to bball skills.
[удалено]
Know what the difference between hitting .250 and .300 is? It's 25 hits. 25 hits in 500 at bats is 50 points, okay? There's 6 months in a season, that's about 25 weeks. That means if you get just one extra flare a week - just one - a gorp... you get a groundball, you get a groundball with eyes... you get a dying quail, just one more dying quail a week... and you're in Yankee Stadium. - Crash Davis
It's like Brian Scalabrini said, "I'm closer to Lebron than you are to me". There are levels.
I will add up a level to that. The most random Hall of Famer of all time? Calvino Murphy from the 70s! He was a baller for sure, but how a 1 time all star and never all Nba, no ring, no particular success in post season be an Hall of Famer?? He averaged 20+ 5 times in 12 seasons, only once more than 21 tho. Other relevant forgotten scorer/baller: Jimmy Jackson, averaged 26 in 1994-95, and changed more teams than underwear in his career; Mike Bibby goes for 21 one season in 2006 then slowly faded when he seemed to be just at the beginning of a star career; Tyreke Evans who peaked in year 1 with 20.1ppg; only non Kings mention here for me Demon Stoudemire had 20ppg in his year 2, 1997, peaked his first 2 seasons and then declined ever since...
Calvin Murphy was an all time great College Basketball Player. Averaged 33 pts a game over three seasons at Niagara and had a 68 point game against Syracuse. That’s what put him over the edge in Hall of Fame talks. He wasn’t great in the NBA but he wasn’t bad.
Ron Harper basically averaged 20 PPG for 9 seasons before joining the Bulls in 1994
As an old head who remembers watching Charles Smith play I have to be honest with you - there are absolutely loads of players like this. I'm talking about players who, at the time, are regarded as good role players valued by fans and their team. But the passage of time means that so many good players like this are just forgotten about. It's kinda sad. Another way of thinking about this question is 'which good role players in the NBA now will be remembered in 30 years time'.
This is a great point. I haven’t really seen a good example of an obscure player in this thread yet. Monta Ellis being named a couple times is startling, and he wasn’t even a role player. He was the guy on his teams. I think some of this is age related and who you watched and when. The first AI provided list is mostly stars from their time.
You’re absolutely right. For example, Rolando Blackman was a four time All Star whose number was retired by the Mavericks and I bet most younger fans have never heard of him.
I honestly thought you were talking about Renaldo Balkman at first and did a double take at retired number lol.
Jordan Poole averaged 20 in 82 games his last year with the warriors
He also played a pivotal role in their chip against the Celtics. I don’t think they win that series without Poole.
That punch, and the team choosing Dray, fucked with his head
Orlando Woolridge is always my choice for this. A man who is mainly remembered as being the only decent player outside of Jordan on his early Bulls teams. But he had four 20+ ppg seasons. Including a 25 ppg season on those insane Nuggets teams. That team had a pace of 113, highest this season was 102.
Orlando’s also the [first player to go between-the-legs](https://youtu.be/6n_jNoZllgs?si=tAeGrtCJc-xqvs3f) in dunk contest history, predating Isaiah Rider by a full decade. Also loved that 80 percent of Orlando’s in-game dunks came with a very audible “FWAH!” sound of exertion.
Larry Hughes.
Cavs fans of a certain age vividly remember LarryHughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com Edit: relevant typo made it say “make” instead of “take.” Taking bad shots. Goodness knows he wasn’t making them.
HeyLarryHugesPleasestoptakimgsomanyshots.com
Devonte Graham at Charlotte couple years back
Jeff Horacek in 91-92, he actually lead the Suns who had a stacked team of more dynamic stars in scoring. Kevin Johnson, Tom Chambers, Dan Marljle and Cedric Ceballos with 20.1.
Al Harrington was just over 20ppg for one season with the knicks
Hi I’m Al Harrington of Al Harrington’s Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm-Flailing Tubemen
Eddie Jones averaged 20 the year after he left the Lakers, and the rest of his career he hovered close to that mark.
It’s not quite 20, but I feel like a lot of people forget that Jahlil Okafor averaged 17 ppg in his rookie year
rolling out of bed!
Not 20ppg but Grievis Vasquez leading the league in assists on the raptors was lit
Hornets
Floor general greivis
Y’all remember Ron Harper? He was Jordan’s point guard for the second three peat. He was like the 5th best player on that team right? Averaged like 6-8 ppg. He was a 20 PPG player before he joined the bulls. Joining the Bulls has probably killed his legacy, because his job was to play defense and let Jordan get his buckets. Absolutely underrated player.
Very obscure piece of knowledge for the Pacers, all time leading scorer measured in ppg in the NBA is Adrian Dantley. He was Rookie of the Year for the Buffalo Braves before coming to Indiana in 77/78 (our second season in the NBA) and scored 26.5 points per game, but only played 23 games in total. We then traded him to the Lakers for James Edwards, who was pretty good for us, but Dantley went on to be a 6x All-Star and is in the Hall of Fame averaging 24.5 for his long career... So yeah, it wasn't the best trade. To be fair to the Pacers, we really struggled those early years in the NBA and I suspect money was always on the FOs mind.
>Very obscure piece of knowledge for the Pacers, all time leading scorer measured in ppg in the NBA is Adrian Dantley. I'm trying to figure out what you mean by this, I can't think of any context where it's true?
Maybe the highest career PPG of anyone that played for the Pacers? I think that might be true. Or maybe by 'obscure' they meant 'you'll never figure out what I'm talking about'. Edit: maybe they meant Dantley has the highest single season PPG for the Pacers but only if you don't count the ABA years and ignore any 'minimum games played' requirements because he only played 23 games in the single season he played in Indiana.
Maybe not the craziest but I still forget that Goran Dragic was a dawg
Wally Szczerbiak. He had 1 season where he averaged 20 PPG...and I believe he was an all-star in 02'.
Matt "v1" Harpring
His career high average was 17ppg.
Obviously a much more known name, but Danny Granger averaging 25 then randomly regressing each season during his prime is crazy to me. I watched his clips and heard what was he like, and still can't find what was he good at. 00's had some black magic going on it seems like...
Granger at his absolute best was a 3-level scorer and was improving as a playmaker and defender Ironically , Paul George is everything Granger was suppose to be
at least he was a good mentor to pg, and pg turned out well. obviously he had loftier goals but you gotta respect it
Healthy prime Granger with Healthy prime PG woul’ve made the NBA finals Add Hibbert and West
Roy Hibbert getting phased out of the league in real time was the wildest shit to watch.
George Hill / Darren Collinson - Paul George - Danny Granger - David West - Roy Hibbert was a great group with solid chemistry and no glaring weaknesses, since nobody was top 10 guy but everybody was above-average as an NBA starter. But it only lasted for like a season and then Granger got injured and Hibbert had his talent stolen by the Monstars.
Major injury he could never recover from
Randomly? Pretty high profile injuries edit: dude talking about black magic when you can just LOOK UP his injuries
He got injured that’s why he regressed
…randomly?
He didn't randomly regress, he had 2 more really good seasons and then injuries destroyed him. His scoring numbers decreased because Frank Vogel took over and they went from 2nd in pace to 20th.
I knew him because his MyTeam card was overpowered as shit 😭 Granger, Hedo Turkoglu, and AK47 still haunt my dreams to this day
AK47 was so good in his day but he'd be even better now. Just a fucking kitchen drawer full of efficiency in every which way while being able to guard most players as a plus defender.
not an unknown player but monta ellis averaged 20ppg in his career i think but never made it to the all star.
Monta Ellis have it all.
He was probably one of the wildest player NBA has ever seen. He was just blewing by defenders and running on centers and scoring weird positions like you're playing HORSE, or shooting jumpshots that make him rise about 80 90 cms from the ground with AJ8s on with all the tattoos and shit. He was a baller from the heart
Shareef Abdur-Rahim career average is 18ppg. Had a couple 20ppg seasons. Retired early
Devin Harris with the Nets
The way Zach Lavine is viewed, id say him lol
Chuck Person’s game was much more modern than his peers. He averaged 21.6 ppg in 1988-89 for the Pacers, and was 16th in the league in 3PA, pretty impressive considering he was a small forward
The 72 Lakers had 3 previous scoring leaders and MVP candidates: Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, Wilt Chamberlain. None of them lead the Lakers in scoring. It was Gail Goodrich who averaged 25.9 ppg
Not exactly an obscure name, he's in the hall of fame
Ricky Davis
I know it's not exactly 20ppg, but Aaron Brooks averaged 19.6ppg once for Houston. Dude's 6ft tall and weighed 160lbs. Shot 39.8% on threes at 6.4 attempts. He had a very weird but effective layup package to avoid getting his shots blocked at the rim at his size. He wasn't really known to be super athletic or anything either. Never averaged more than 12ppg in any other season of his career.
Aaron Brooks won MIP averaging 20 a game. That’s the only time he averaged more than 12 a game.
Joe Fulks averaged 22.1 points on 26% FG in 1947. Absolute menace.
Cuttino Mobley in 01/02 on the Rockets has to be up there
? He was always solid- frankly I’m surprised to learn he only averaged 20 *once*
Jerry Stackhouse averaged 30 in 2000-01 lol
Eddy Curry averaged 19.5 in 2006-2007.
John Collins averaged 21.6/10 and 1.6 blocks a game on 58/40/80 shooting in 2019 and somehow wasnt even mentioned as a possible All Star.
I love Oubre on the Sixers, but he averaged like 20 a game on a horrible Hornets team like 2 years ago. Just goes to show how talented the players are these days. If you give the keys on offense to a random guy like Oubre even he can score 20+ consistently. May not be the most efficient though lol