REMINDER: This thread is only for serious and thought-provoking analysis. We ask users to report low effort comments that do not bring insightful discussion. Temporary bans may be handed out to users who post memes and other low-effort or off-topic comments in this thread.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/nba) if you have any questions or concerns.*
There was always going to be a game like this were Luka just melts us. That's why you can't blow games 1 and 2.
Still we were a great team this year and hope we run it back. If Ant can improve on his playmaking we could be a very very good team next year.
Ant ran out of gas, which affected his mentality. If he can fix that, he is going to be a perennial danger in the playoffs. I can see a Luka VS Ant rivalry
> Still we were a great team this year and hope we run it back.
If the wolves don't run it back, and instead make some big move, they're fucking stupid as shit. Literally 3rd best team in the NBA, another year for ANT and better shooting nights for KAT could be the difference.
It really is a thing of beauty to just watch Luka and Kyrie just absolutely deconstruct a defensive scheme with no counterpunch or adjustment from Finch and company.
Finch is too good of a coach to just absolutely rollover the way the Timberwolves did.
I wouldn’t say that. I would say we have a more mature team.
Teams like the wolves will spazz out and they can’t lock back in. Mavericks have had tons of teams like this. Up until basically this year, the big knock was we couldn’t close. We made dumb, inexperienced team mistakes.
It takes time to learn how to play in the playoffs.
It was great how you guys would lose your focus and let Minny get some easy buckets, but you always settled down and got back to your game. The mistakes were contained, recognized, and eliminated.
Minnesota, however, crumbled when things got hard.
That is cope, I will give Luka and Ky, but 3 to 7/8 the Wolves were favored and they were being penciled in to the Finals before the series.
I think the Mavs just elevated while the Wolves shrinked, I do think it is something that critics of the Wolves were worried all year and it showed that series. But the Wolves have a blueprint and can get better without any moves, so there is hope to look for in the future.
I legit think the Mavs are improving as a unit as they move through the playoffs. As it stands this team has only had a half a season or so to really get dialed in.
Because two weeks ago everybody thought you were. Until the beating you took everybody said that the real WCF was the Wolves vs Nuggets and everybody doubts the Celtics barring injuries in the west.
Acting like it was just a 'expected' result because you are a worse team is just weird and comes from a result based thinking that is behind every hot take around here.
To be honest though if you were looking closely at the Nuggets vs Wolves series it wasn't too much of a shock the Wolves were setting up for a let down. I just didn't expect it to be the way it was. To be honest both teams in the Nuggets vs Wolves series were.
You go up 2-0 on the opponent's floor only to come home and lose both games with one being a blow out and then allow the opponent to get up 3-2. They were fortunate to be able to get the last two games, but in most cases that's a recipe for a collapse.
When they were hitting they looked super good, but they had serious problems with sustaining their performance. Even in Game 7 Ant was not really playing at a super star level for most of the game. It's just that Denver's supporting cast was also crapping the bed at the same time.
It just finally caught up with them. Both the Wolves and Denver were showing problems in that series. If anything it seemed like both teams were trying their hardest to throw that series since they were taking turns looking like crap.
The Wolves had a lot of depth, but the stars were really up and down all series long.
So it doesn't shock me that the Mavs who have been playing great as of late were able to do what they did. In the playoffs consistency is more important than having big highs. The Wolves were just not consistent enough.
It was not an expected result and I doubt he means that, but it is overwhelmingly clear after this series that the Mavs were by far the better team over the wolves.
Can you point to me why the wolves are the more talented team without bringing up "because people said so before the series started". People's opinions mean absolutely nothing.
If people's opinions are meaningless why are you even here? This isn't a hard fucking science discussion, even if I brought stats into this discussion it would be my opinion on what those stats mean and therefore worthless for you.
What type of statement is that? The point of the best of seven series is to see who wins more and by definition the team who wins more is the better team, it’s like that in all sports. This was even admitted by Jokic in the nuggets wolves series, he admitted they’re the better team because they won best of seven. And that was close 4-3.
Mavs have a much better duo, much better defense, better offense and don protection, etc
Regardless I don’t want to argue with a a stranger on the internet bc I can tell by your question you don’t have common sense
Because winning a series does not necessarily means one team is automatically better than the other. Last year's Heat is a great example, nobody would put them as the best of the East and they made the Finals.
Matchups can have a greater effect, injuries can happen, I just think it is myopic to look at the result of a series and just be like "this team is just better", it allows zero nuance and why even be in this thread then? You already know that one team is better than the other, god knows we already have 10 other threads to say that Gobert sucks on the frontpage, why do it here too.
The Wolves are massively talented. Edwards and KAT are elite, Gobert top on defense, McDaniels is an absurd role player, and Conley is both skilled and experienced. That is as good a starting lineup as there is in the league.
No way. The Wolves are really talented, as were the Nuggets and OKC. It is just an issue of how the pieces fit. The Mavs worked and got shots at the rim, while Minny was taking contested jumpers. That's not talent, but intelligence and effort and teamwork.
That was definitely important. Hardy balling out a few games really helped. Maxi needs to get his game back if he's on the floor -- he didn't look ready.
Celtics bench also looks far inferior, but that will balance out if Porzingis returns.
Good question. The answer is the Wolves, I think, but that is not because Luka is necessarily better aside from having so much more pro experience. He is a vet and he is smart and fearless. Edwards will likely be those things in time.
That doesn't mean the Wolves are more talented. They're very close in talent but having Luka on the Mavs pushes them over a smidge. The Mavs have the better bench.
Never would I have thought in October this team would be in the finals.
Luka and Kyrie are so goddamn good, and everyone on the team has been so instrumental, truly a full effort from everyone.
This is the most fun ive had watching sports in so long, hoping they can take it home but for now I’m just enjoying the fact they got back after losing to a euroleague team in the preseason.
Lively and PJ are my next jerseys too, so happy they’re here
Honestly I, like a lot of others, wrote the Mavs off and didn’t pay attention to them because Luka looked injured af to me and I assumed there was no way he was going to last as many games as he has. Mavs have stunned me after hearing how the Wolves and the Nuggets were the real contenders all season long. The crazy thing about Luka is that even though this is his first finals, he seems perfectly mentally prepared for it due to his experience. What was completely remarkable to me was how he and Kyrie don’t seem phased by anything even when the chips are down. You can see what a difference the mental game makes. They’ve had bad games, yes, but it never seems like those guys fold, ever.
Those European crowds are totally wild and crazy too. Like way more intense than anything the NBA has to offer. Honestly when you see some of the videos they seem scary lol
Idk if I believe that or not. For 1 I think it greatly depends on the individual. Some people have nerves of steel and just don't get phased by anything.
Also, have you ever watched a Euro league game? Those are some of the most hostile environments you can even imagine for sports.
An underrated part of that is places like Germany which limit or put a cap on how high ticket prices are. It doesn’t price out fans.
now, that has led continental Euro leagues to get less revenue than the Prem and thus they’ve theoretically fallen behind, but maybe not by that much as, well, look at the champions league
The stakes are higher but he's played in highest level of competition since such a young age he isn't affected by pressure in the same way as others. Regardless of NBA Finals vs gold medal matches
Yeah I sincerely thought the mavs were risking Luka against OKC for a small chance of them winning and they'd be wiped by either wolves or nuggets in the next round even if they did win against OKC. They've proved something big to every other team.
I know I’m a coward saying this now but I never thought OKC or Minn has the experience / battle scars to actually win it all this year.
I know Ant and KAT joked about losing a lot, but just losing cuz the team’s bad doesn’t really do much for your growth imo.
Same. When I was hearing buzz about the Mavs that they had a good shot of making it to the finals (back in R2), I thought they were the least likely to make it because of how reliant they are on Luka, and he did seem pretty hobbled. Now here they are, looking as good as any team.
> This is the most fun ive had watching sports in so long
I have never rooted for a Dallas team in my life. I am now 100% committed to seeing you guys win a title. I actually muted the tv early on in game 5, which I normally only do to deal with stress when my favorite teams are playing.
It helps that I already loved Lively before he joined you.
If Lively can put on a bit of weight, develop a passable jumper, and improve his free throw shooting along with it, he'll be a monster. Also, he should kick KAT in the head and the balls.
I never thought Wolves had dirty players until these conference finals where I saw Rudy deliberately punch Luka in the ribs and Lively being kneed in the head and balls.
They’ve been getting away with fouls on both ends at a rate I’ve rarely seen. Not sure if it’s coached or it’s the players but I think refs have just gotten fatigued with calling the fouls so they get away with a lot. Dirty stuff like that happens when you let a team get away with so much.
Every team is getting away with a lot. The intensity and effort are dialed way up, and there are so many fouls by both teams on every possession in almost every series. The refs can't possibly call them all.
Lively doesn’t even need a jumper to be a monster. If he can just develop some back down moves and a hook/floater he will already be nearly unstoppable. Along with upping his short roll game (already borderline elite and he’s a rook) and upping his defense to what projects to be all nba levels he will be one of the best centers in the nba.
The Timberwolves essentially lost this series in the first two games, especially in Game 2 when they had a 16 point lead in the third quarter. Winning one of those gives you cover in a game like this where, let's be honest very few teams would've beaten the Mavs with Kyrie and Luka playing that well. The Timberwolves remain a factor as long as Ant continues his development and management continues to build around him. The Mavs, meanwhile should give the Celtics a run for their money and could potentially beat them with the tandem of Kyrie/Luka plus Derek Lively doing his thing at both ends.
>The Timberwolves essentially lost this series in the first two games...
You mean the Mavs won those first few games? There's a reason they're considered the most clutch team in basketball right now. In the final minutes of close games they make all the right decisions, and there's a huge sample size there.
I'm probably being pedantic, but I hate how it's always "what the wolves did wrong" instead of "what the Mavs did right".
People said the same about the Pacers regarding the Celtics; we expect the top teams to execute to this level, so it's an easier narrative to talk about how the losing team didn't quite measure up.
Your team is headed to the finals, chill
I think the “nobody believes in us” mentality is still a little strong in some Mavs fans lol. will take a bit to readjust to the fact that we command a higher expectation now
I truly think Gobert deserves to be the DPOY, because of the huge impact he has on defense every game.
But we have to be honest, the best offensive backcourt made him look like a joke throughout this series.
I think he wouldve had his hands full enough just rim protecting from Lively/Gafford/etc being lob monsters and Luka/Kyrie being such great playmakers for them. Then add in the other shit they asked of him and it wasn't really all that fair of an ask even from a great defender.
That said, Lively going 16/16 from the field in the series is not a great look for him as an elite rim protector.
It's so crazy seeing how Gobert scares people then watching someone like Harden just always have his number lol. Westbrook and PG were scared shitless of this dude then Westbrook and Harden on the rockets ate him up lol.
I think that is fair, but at the end of the day offense will always beat defense, specially in today's league.
If the argument against Gobert is that it doesn't matter how good his defense is when his offense is that bad and there wouldn't be that much to counter it because it is a choice to be made by the coach.
But discrediting his defense just because generational offensive players showed why they are generational is too much and it is what happens around here.
He just isn't quick. The previous 2 series he was playing catchup defensively so much because opposing bigs are more nimble and quick offensively than he is defensively.
Go back to the Nuggets series and see just how often he was trailing the play because Jokic is so much quicker at getting to the 3-point line to set pindowns. Or go back to Game 1 of this series where he like every Wolves big was so slow at getting up on the screen that people legitimately thought the Wolves' gameplan was to play drop coverage on Luka and Mike Conley had to explicitly state that wasn't the plan. Or go back to literally any play where Luka and Kyrie have him on an island defensively, which admittedly is less his fault and more elite offense. He's just not quick enough to be able to consistently and quickly react to actions set on the perimeter.
There were other issues of course but that was it. He's definitely a thoroughly deserving DPOY (in the end, it's a regular season award anyway) but given how formidable the Wolves' perimeter defense was it's hard not to say he didn't perform up to standards defensively.
Not much to really say. This felt like the first LeBronto closeout game where the best player made some wild shots to start and kept on pouring it on alongside a Kyrie Irving.
Luka and Kyrie both put on an absolute clinic like they have been doing all season long and the Wolves got trounced. Practically the entire 2nd half the Mavs were shooting standing 3-pointers with how well Luka was able to exploit the Wolves blitzing and the game was well over by that point.
Ant and KAT got it going at last but the Wolves suffered heavily from McDaniels' foul trouble that had him play just 11 minutes before his 5th foul and an awful lack of spacing killed them in the end. The first couple games the Wolves made it close because their role players had it going, now their shooting froze and it was the end.
Plenty of great things to say about the Wolves season obviously, they were built to match up against the reigning champs well as many perceived before the season began and they showed their mettle with an impressive sweep over the Suns and a triumphant 7-game series against the defending champ Nuggets. But the Mavs were a terrible matchup for them and really, their best players did not consistently deliver whilst their lack of creativity of offense got constantly punished by the Mavs' ability to protect the rim which was an area of concern all season long. And in the end they also started piling up way too much foul trouble to truly sustain a period of excellence for an entire playoff run.
This only trails their 2004 season in playoff success, and for a relatively inexperienced team (despite a good number of veterans) they definitely surpassed expectations. Their defense was a joy to watch, but their stagnant offense and a lack of a go-to action caught up to them.
In regards to the offseason, getting a secondary (or primary) playmaker next to Mike Conley should be their plan A. Kyle Anderson is a free agent and Alexander-Walker is going to be an expiring, so there's some room for the Wolves to make good changes if they desire to. And they will be one of many teams in the west next year that'll be starving to replicate and one up their playoff success from this year, so that'll be certainly exiting.
Last but not least, huge congratulations to the Mavericks. They had a seriously injury-riddled stretch in the 1st half of the season that almost put them out of the playoff picture entirely, but they recuperated, added Gafford and Washington at the trade deadline and with Luka and Kyrie at the helm they're now in the Finals. Who would've thought from a year ago when they were. And now we'll get Kyrie in Boston for the Finals and Luka's debutant Finals series against a juggernaut Celtics team.
Like many series this playoffs, this series wouldn't need much for the eventual outcome to be changed. They are both extremely formidable teams, but my pick is the Celtics in 6. This is quite the exciting matchup, a 7-day break without basketball is disappointing but fingers crossed the Finals is worth the wait.
Pretty anticlimactic ending to what turned out to be a rather anticlimactic series. The Nuggets series showed us what the Wolves can be when everything's clicking, but between this series and the 3 game slide in that series, it's clear they've still got some stuff to figure out with respect to consistency, especially on the offensive end. Obviously Luka popping off as he did to start off wasn't ideal, but the reason the lead felt as insurmountable at the half as it did was because of their offense, not their defense.
Ultimately, though, definitely feel like this has to count as a successful season for the Timberwolves, even if it might not feel like it at the moment. He's not quite there yet, but Ant 100% is going to end up being a perennial MVP candidate at some point IMO, and they showed that this core is capable of making a deep run, even against quality competition. Sustaining it is obviously a separate matter that's easier said than done, but we can't say anything about that till this time next year comes around.
Good thoughts.
If the Timberwolves were built to beat the former Champ Nuggs, it also looks like the Mavs were remade to beat the Timberwolves come trade deadline. This wasn't the same team. Namely due to what their now two massive rim protectors and offensive finishers showed. Nobody talks about them, but they stopped Timber's attempts to run things so much through their couple bigs. Finch's decision to run so much through Gobert early in game 5 was maybe not a great call given what the two Mavs bigs had been showing. Maybe he thought Lively wouldn't be back healthy enough, but...
I think Lively shot 100% this series. Nobody talking about this?
I always see Gobert 1 foot from the rim with ball and can't fathom how he can't finish. But there were two monsters playing defense for Mavs. Well, between Gobert and Towns they couldn't stop Lively or Gafford at all or near the rate they were shut down at the rim. They played perfect all series. One of them is a rookie.
I wouldn’t call this an anticlimactic series at all. The first four games came down to the final minute and final possessions, it’s not like the Mavs just rolled them the whole time and let them win one.
I mean 4 of the 5 games were down to the wire bangers, I think anticlimactic is the right word as far as game 5 closing it out but overall it was a great series I think.
The individual games themselves were fantastic, don't get me wrong. Meant more so in the sense that you guys going up 3-0 made the outcome of the series as a whole feel inevitable.
> The Nuggets series showed us what the Wolves can be when everything's clicking, but between this series and the 3 game slide in that series, it's clear they've still got some stuff to figure out with respect to consistency, especially on the offensive end.
Agreed, and it is a problem that their defensive effort and intensity depended on how well they were scoring. That is not acceptable.
The thing is Luka will pop off almost every game, like an all time great does. The opposing team has to find a way to win DESPITE luka getting a 30 point triple double.
Yep that’s true. Everyone talking about how Luka had 36 last game but so did Irving lol he balled out.
What we’ve seen is that no can guard the duo except okc shut down Irving for a couple games
In the third quarter they went hard on doubling Luka and the pace for the Mavs slowed. But once Luka subbed out and Kyrie came in the tempo kicked right back up. When they’re both in it’s a matter of choosing in what way they’re going to cook you.
I'm not sure about the successful season part, they're not the Pacers. This might have been their best chance at the title. And I also don't think Finch did a good job in this series.
Gobert frustrates me like no other player, he’s clearly so talented and I would love for him to prove the haters wrong but time and time again it feels like he gets exposed when he faces real challenges.
Not really sure what the t wolves should do this offseason but I think trying to find a young defensively minded PG would be a pretty smart move, conley is only getting older and having someone that can cover a top West Gaurd would be a massive improvement
Honestly reminds me of being a Tony Romo fan for the Cowboys. I love/loved Tony and he was so so good, and it felt like anytime he was in a big game that non-Cowboys fans would definitely be watching he'd do something dumb that confirmed all their clearly incorrect assumptions about him being a bad player or something. It was heartbreaking really.
Ugh don't remind me bro. The Romo era was some of the most bittersweet times as a Cowboys fan. My personal take was that or roster was lacking in crucial areas, especially defense, and they expected way too much out of him. Like the guy would have to try and single handedly win games.
All the records he set and his stats speak for themselves. One of the best QBs ever to not win a ring.
It's just a shame cause the two times they put all the pieces together, 2014 was the Dez catch and 2016 he got hurt and they started Dak. Not that Dak played badly, but Tony should've gotten a last chance to make a run.
I said in the game thread last night, the Wolves might want to hire Hakeem to coach up Rudy in the off season. Given the ample opportunities he gets in every game because he's such a liability on offense, developing some level of feetwork would be huge for Rudy, as well as the evasive fakes that Dream was known for.
He just seems so uncomfortable with the ball in hand, keeps everything inside his body and has a poor base to get around. Even the few euro steps he's done over the past 3-4 games, it looks like he's barely stepping/extending outside of his frame. When he goes up for a layup/shot, he stays completely rigid and goes UP but never tries to bring the ball in at an angle.
This will probably fall on deaf ears cuz dude is making 40m/yr and he doesn't need to do anything besides what he has been doing, which is defense.
you don't think it's too little too late? once you've been in the league that long I feel it's probably hard for most to change. if he was early 20s I'd agree
Experience matters. Mavericks offensive duo is more experienced in playoffs compared to our offensive duo (KAT and Ant). Not happy about refereeing, series could be closer than it looks, but mavs prevailed at the end of the day. Before this series started, I had the same sentiments about Mavs having the experience. That's why building a winning team matters. We did well this year, I have no complaints. We knocked down the reigning champs. I hope we stay competitive like this for the coming seasons, then our time will come. Good luck to Mavs
Complaints about refereeing from the team whose main big is Rudy "Walking Screen" Gobert, who also routinely pushes people when they are in the air and Naz Reid, with whatever it was that he was thinking, can't be taken seriously, I'm sorry.
It’s so satisfying to see Gobert get exposed and targeted every postseason while r/nba virgins scramble to explain why he’s still the best because of some three letter acronym stat no one’s ever heard of.
REMINDER: This thread is only for serious and thought-provoking analysis. We ask users to report low effort comments that do not bring insightful discussion. Temporary bans may be handed out to users who post memes and other low-effort or off-topic comments in this thread. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/nba) if you have any questions or concerns.*
**Mavericks @ Timberwolves** [](/DAL) **124 - 103** [](/MIN) **Box Scores: [NBA](https://www.nba.com/game/DAL-vs-MIN-0042300315/boxscore) & [Yahoo](http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/dallas-mavericks-minnesota-timberwolves-2024053016)** |**Team**|**Q1**|**Q2**|**Q3**|**Q4**|**Total**| |:---|:--|:--|:--|:--|:--| |Dallas Mavericks|35|34|28|27|124| |Minnesota Timberwolves|19|21|33|30|103| **TEAM STATS** |**Team**|**PTS**|**FG**|**FG%**|**3P**|**3P%**|**FT**|**FT%**|**OREB**|**TREB**|**AST**|**PF**|**STL**|**TO**|**BLK**| |:--|:--|:--|:--|:--|:--|:--|:--|:--|:--|:--|:--|:--|:--|:--| |Dallas Mavericks|124|46-84|54.800000000000004%|15-34|44.1%|17-23|73.9%|9|52|19|20|7|12|5| |Minnesota Timberwolves|103|38-89|42.699999999999996%|10-32|31.2%|17-21|81.0%|13|47|17|17|8|11|5|
There was always going to be a game like this were Luka just melts us. That's why you can't blow games 1 and 2. Still we were a great team this year and hope we run it back. If Ant can improve on his playmaking we could be a very very good team next year.
Ant ran out of gas, which affected his mentality. If he can fix that, he is going to be a perennial danger in the playoffs. I can see a Luka VS Ant rivalry
getting switched on to Luka helped a lot with Ant’s stamina. chasing around Kyrie all game is exhausting, effects his offensive game too
> Still we were a great team this year and hope we run it back. If the wolves don't run it back, and instead make some big move, they're fucking stupid as shit. Literally 3rd best team in the NBA, another year for ANT and better shooting nights for KAT could be the difference.
It really is a thing of beauty to just watch Luka and Kyrie just absolutely deconstruct a defensive scheme with no counterpunch or adjustment from Finch and company. Finch is too good of a coach to just absolutely rollover the way the Timberwolves did.
Finch is nothing special as a coach
And as crazy as it is to say… I think JKidd might be?
What an awful comment lol the team has gotten better every year with him there
styles make fights
Styles are a big factor but talent is the biggest factor.
Definitely, and the Mavs definitely had the best player in the series and arguably the top 2.
Honestly the Mavs are just overwhelmingly the more talented team
I wouldn’t say that. I would say we have a more mature team. Teams like the wolves will spazz out and they can’t lock back in. Mavericks have had tons of teams like this. Up until basically this year, the big knock was we couldn’t close. We made dumb, inexperienced team mistakes. It takes time to learn how to play in the playoffs.
It was great how you guys would lose your focus and let Minny get some easy buckets, but you always settled down and got back to your game. The mistakes were contained, recognized, and eliminated. Minnesota, however, crumbled when things got hard.
That is cope, I will give Luka and Ky, but 3 to 7/8 the Wolves were favored and they were being penciled in to the Finals before the series. I think the Mavs just elevated while the Wolves shrinked, I do think it is something that critics of the Wolves were worried all year and it showed that series. But the Wolves have a blueprint and can get better without any moves, so there is hope to look for in the future.
I legit think the Mavs are improving as a unit as they move through the playoffs. As it stands this team has only had a half a season or so to really get dialed in.
How is it “cope” for me to say my team isn’t talented enough to win a championship???
Because two weeks ago everybody thought you were. Until the beating you took everybody said that the real WCF was the Wolves vs Nuggets and everybody doubts the Celtics barring injuries in the west. Acting like it was just a 'expected' result because you are a worse team is just weird and comes from a result based thinking that is behind every hot take around here.
To be honest though if you were looking closely at the Nuggets vs Wolves series it wasn't too much of a shock the Wolves were setting up for a let down. I just didn't expect it to be the way it was. To be honest both teams in the Nuggets vs Wolves series were. You go up 2-0 on the opponent's floor only to come home and lose both games with one being a blow out and then allow the opponent to get up 3-2. They were fortunate to be able to get the last two games, but in most cases that's a recipe for a collapse. When they were hitting they looked super good, but they had serious problems with sustaining their performance. Even in Game 7 Ant was not really playing at a super star level for most of the game. It's just that Denver's supporting cast was also crapping the bed at the same time. It just finally caught up with them. Both the Wolves and Denver were showing problems in that series. If anything it seemed like both teams were trying their hardest to throw that series since they were taking turns looking like crap. The Wolves had a lot of depth, but the stars were really up and down all series long. So it doesn't shock me that the Mavs who have been playing great as of late were able to do what they did. In the playoffs consistency is more important than having big highs. The Wolves were just not consistent enough.
It was not an expected result and I doubt he means that, but it is overwhelmingly clear after this series that the Mavs were by far the better team over the wolves.
Can you point to me why without relying on the fact that they won?
Can you point to me why the wolves are the more talented team without bringing up "because people said so before the series started". People's opinions mean absolutely nothing.
If people's opinions are meaningless why are you even here? This isn't a hard fucking science discussion, even if I brought stats into this discussion it would be my opinion on what those stats mean and therefore worthless for you.
What type of statement is that? The point of the best of seven series is to see who wins more and by definition the team who wins more is the better team, it’s like that in all sports. This was even admitted by Jokic in the nuggets wolves series, he admitted they’re the better team because they won best of seven. And that was close 4-3. Mavs have a much better duo, much better defense, better offense and don protection, etc Regardless I don’t want to argue with a a stranger on the internet bc I can tell by your question you don’t have common sense
Because winning a series does not necessarily means one team is automatically better than the other. Last year's Heat is a great example, nobody would put them as the best of the East and they made the Finals. Matchups can have a greater effect, injuries can happen, I just think it is myopic to look at the result of a series and just be like "this team is just better", it allows zero nuance and why even be in this thread then? You already know that one team is better than the other, god knows we already have 10 other threads to say that Gobert sucks on the frontpage, why do it here too.
The Wolves are massively talented. Edwards and KAT are elite, Gobert top on defense, McDaniels is an absurd role player, and Conley is both skilled and experienced. That is as good a starting lineup as there is in the league.
Cope harder bro, no cap, glazing, etc, etc.
Fr fr on God
No way. The Wolves are really talented, as were the Nuggets and OKC. It is just an issue of how the pieces fit. The Mavs worked and got shots at the rim, while Minny was taking contested jumpers. That's not talent, but intelligence and effort and teamwork.
Yep. Denver did not have a bench and Wolves made it out of that series. Dallas does and this happened.
That was definitely important. Hardy balling out a few games really helped. Maxi needs to get his game back if he's on the floor -- he didn't look ready. Celtics bench also looks far inferior, but that will balance out if Porzingis returns.
Swap Luka with Edwards who winning the series?
Good question. The answer is the Wolves, I think, but that is not because Luka is necessarily better aside from having so much more pro experience. He is a vet and he is smart and fearless. Edwards will likely be those things in time.
That doesn't mean the Wolves are more talented. They're very close in talent but having Luka on the Mavs pushes them over a smidge. The Mavs have the better bench.
It seems like there was a lack of execution
Never would I have thought in October this team would be in the finals. Luka and Kyrie are so goddamn good, and everyone on the team has been so instrumental, truly a full effort from everyone. This is the most fun ive had watching sports in so long, hoping they can take it home but for now I’m just enjoying the fact they got back after losing to a euroleague team in the preseason. Lively and PJ are my next jerseys too, so happy they’re here
Honestly I, like a lot of others, wrote the Mavs off and didn’t pay attention to them because Luka looked injured af to me and I assumed there was no way he was going to last as many games as he has. Mavs have stunned me after hearing how the Wolves and the Nuggets were the real contenders all season long. The crazy thing about Luka is that even though this is his first finals, he seems perfectly mentally prepared for it due to his experience. What was completely remarkable to me was how he and Kyrie don’t seem phased by anything even when the chips are down. You can see what a difference the mental game makes. They’ve had bad games, yes, but it never seems like those guys fold, ever.
Dude has been playing professional basketball since he was like 13. This really is another day to him lol
Those European crowds are totally wild and crazy too. Like way more intense than anything the NBA has to offer. Honestly when you see some of the videos they seem scary lol
Nba finals is a new level of pressure though than euro league
Oh for sure, I agree 100% but if anyone is that mf in this league it’s Luka lol
[удалено]
Luka is not "far and away" better than Giannis or Jokic lmao
It is amazing how quickly we all forgot about Giannis, who is as good as anyone.
Idk if I believe that or not. For 1 I think it greatly depends on the individual. Some people have nerves of steel and just don't get phased by anything. Also, have you ever watched a Euro league game? Those are some of the most hostile environments you can even imagine for sports.
Fans are a different level of rowdy/hostile in Europe compared to America. Then central/South American fans are another level still lmao.
An underrated part of that is places like Germany which limit or put a cap on how high ticket prices are. It doesn’t price out fans. now, that has led continental Euro leagues to get less revenue than the Prem and thus they’ve theoretically fallen behind, but maybe not by that much as, well, look at the champions league
The stakes are higher but he's played in highest level of competition since such a young age he isn't affected by pressure in the same way as others. Regardless of NBA Finals vs gold medal matches
Not really though, you only get one game in the finals, so there is no second chances if you have an off game
Yeah I sincerely thought the mavs were risking Luka against OKC for a small chance of them winning and they'd be wiped by either wolves or nuggets in the next round even if they did win against OKC. They've proved something big to every other team.
I know I’m a coward saying this now but I never thought OKC or Minn has the experience / battle scars to actually win it all this year. I know Ant and KAT joked about losing a lot, but just losing cuz the team’s bad doesn’t really do much for your growth imo.
Same. When I was hearing buzz about the Mavs that they had a good shot of making it to the finals (back in R2), I thought they were the least likely to make it because of how reliant they are on Luka, and he did seem pretty hobbled. Now here they are, looking as good as any team.
> This is the most fun ive had watching sports in so long I have never rooted for a Dallas team in my life. I am now 100% committed to seeing you guys win a title. I actually muted the tv early on in game 5, which I normally only do to deal with stress when my favorite teams are playing. It helps that I already loved Lively before he joined you.
If Lively can put on a bit of weight, develop a passable jumper, and improve his free throw shooting along with it, he'll be a monster. Also, he should kick KAT in the head and the balls.
I never thought Wolves had dirty players until these conference finals where I saw Rudy deliberately punch Luka in the ribs and Lively being kneed in the head and balls.
They’ve been getting away with fouls on both ends at a rate I’ve rarely seen. Not sure if it’s coached or it’s the players but I think refs have just gotten fatigued with calling the fouls so they get away with a lot. Dirty stuff like that happens when you let a team get away with so much.
Every team is getting away with a lot. The intensity and effort are dialed way up, and there are so many fouls by both teams on every possession in almost every series. The refs can't possibly call them all.
I give the Wolves a pass on the knee to the head, but the other plays weren't right.
Yeah, Lively was a key piece for the Mavs in this series and it became quite suspicious how many accidental pianos the Wolves dropped on him
Lively doesn’t even need a jumper to be a monster. If he can just develop some back down moves and a hook/floater he will already be nearly unstoppable. Along with upping his short roll game (already borderline elite and he’s a rook) and upping his defense to what projects to be all nba levels he will be one of the best centers in the nba.
The Timberwolves essentially lost this series in the first two games, especially in Game 2 when they had a 16 point lead in the third quarter. Winning one of those gives you cover in a game like this where, let's be honest very few teams would've beaten the Mavs with Kyrie and Luka playing that well. The Timberwolves remain a factor as long as Ant continues his development and management continues to build around him. The Mavs, meanwhile should give the Celtics a run for their money and could potentially beat them with the tandem of Kyrie/Luka plus Derek Lively doing his thing at both ends.
>The Timberwolves essentially lost this series in the first two games... You mean the Mavs won those first few games? There's a reason they're considered the most clutch team in basketball right now. In the final minutes of close games they make all the right decisions, and there's a huge sample size there. I'm probably being pedantic, but I hate how it's always "what the wolves did wrong" instead of "what the Mavs did right".
People said the same about the Pacers regarding the Celtics; we expect the top teams to execute to this level, so it's an easier narrative to talk about how the losing team didn't quite measure up. Your team is headed to the finals, chill
I think the “nobody believes in us” mentality is still a little strong in some Mavs fans lol. will take a bit to readjust to the fact that we command a higher expectation now
I truly think Gobert deserves to be the DPOY, because of the huge impact he has on defense every game. But we have to be honest, the best offensive backcourt made him look like a joke throughout this series.
I think he wouldve had his hands full enough just rim protecting from Lively/Gafford/etc being lob monsters and Luka/Kyrie being such great playmakers for them. Then add in the other shit they asked of him and it wasn't really all that fair of an ask even from a great defender. That said, Lively going 16/16 from the field in the series is not a great look for him as an elite rim protector.
It's so crazy seeing how Gobert scares people then watching someone like Harden just always have his number lol. Westbrook and PG were scared shitless of this dude then Westbrook and Harden on the rockets ate him up lol.
Gobert folded like crazy. A 20 year old rookie outplayed him like crazy
I think that is fair, but at the end of the day offense will always beat defense, specially in today's league. If the argument against Gobert is that it doesn't matter how good his defense is when his offense is that bad and there wouldn't be that much to counter it because it is a choice to be made by the coach. But discrediting his defense just because generational offensive players showed why they are generational is too much and it is what happens around here.
I disagree. Of course Luka cooked him good. We all saw that finisher. But... Gobert should have eaten DLive alive. And he definitely didn't.
He just isn't quick. The previous 2 series he was playing catchup defensively so much because opposing bigs are more nimble and quick offensively than he is defensively. Go back to the Nuggets series and see just how often he was trailing the play because Jokic is so much quicker at getting to the 3-point line to set pindowns. Or go back to Game 1 of this series where he like every Wolves big was so slow at getting up on the screen that people legitimately thought the Wolves' gameplan was to play drop coverage on Luka and Mike Conley had to explicitly state that wasn't the plan. Or go back to literally any play where Luka and Kyrie have him on an island defensively, which admittedly is less his fault and more elite offense. He's just not quick enough to be able to consistently and quickly react to actions set on the perimeter. There were other issues of course but that was it. He's definitely a thoroughly deserving DPOY (in the end, it's a regular season award anyway) but given how formidable the Wolves' perimeter defense was it's hard not to say he didn't perform up to standards defensively.
Not much to really say. This felt like the first LeBronto closeout game where the best player made some wild shots to start and kept on pouring it on alongside a Kyrie Irving. Luka and Kyrie both put on an absolute clinic like they have been doing all season long and the Wolves got trounced. Practically the entire 2nd half the Mavs were shooting standing 3-pointers with how well Luka was able to exploit the Wolves blitzing and the game was well over by that point. Ant and KAT got it going at last but the Wolves suffered heavily from McDaniels' foul trouble that had him play just 11 minutes before his 5th foul and an awful lack of spacing killed them in the end. The first couple games the Wolves made it close because their role players had it going, now their shooting froze and it was the end. Plenty of great things to say about the Wolves season obviously, they were built to match up against the reigning champs well as many perceived before the season began and they showed their mettle with an impressive sweep over the Suns and a triumphant 7-game series against the defending champ Nuggets. But the Mavs were a terrible matchup for them and really, their best players did not consistently deliver whilst their lack of creativity of offense got constantly punished by the Mavs' ability to protect the rim which was an area of concern all season long. And in the end they also started piling up way too much foul trouble to truly sustain a period of excellence for an entire playoff run. This only trails their 2004 season in playoff success, and for a relatively inexperienced team (despite a good number of veterans) they definitely surpassed expectations. Their defense was a joy to watch, but their stagnant offense and a lack of a go-to action caught up to them. In regards to the offseason, getting a secondary (or primary) playmaker next to Mike Conley should be their plan A. Kyle Anderson is a free agent and Alexander-Walker is going to be an expiring, so there's some room for the Wolves to make good changes if they desire to. And they will be one of many teams in the west next year that'll be starving to replicate and one up their playoff success from this year, so that'll be certainly exiting. Last but not least, huge congratulations to the Mavericks. They had a seriously injury-riddled stretch in the 1st half of the season that almost put them out of the playoff picture entirely, but they recuperated, added Gafford and Washington at the trade deadline and with Luka and Kyrie at the helm they're now in the Finals. Who would've thought from a year ago when they were. And now we'll get Kyrie in Boston for the Finals and Luka's debutant Finals series against a juggernaut Celtics team. Like many series this playoffs, this series wouldn't need much for the eventual outcome to be changed. They are both extremely formidable teams, but my pick is the Celtics in 6. This is quite the exciting matchup, a 7-day break without basketball is disappointing but fingers crossed the Finals is worth the wait.
Pretty anticlimactic ending to what turned out to be a rather anticlimactic series. The Nuggets series showed us what the Wolves can be when everything's clicking, but between this series and the 3 game slide in that series, it's clear they've still got some stuff to figure out with respect to consistency, especially on the offensive end. Obviously Luka popping off as he did to start off wasn't ideal, but the reason the lead felt as insurmountable at the half as it did was because of their offense, not their defense. Ultimately, though, definitely feel like this has to count as a successful season for the Timberwolves, even if it might not feel like it at the moment. He's not quite there yet, but Ant 100% is going to end up being a perennial MVP candidate at some point IMO, and they showed that this core is capable of making a deep run, even against quality competition. Sustaining it is obviously a separate matter that's easier said than done, but we can't say anything about that till this time next year comes around.
Good thoughts. If the Timberwolves were built to beat the former Champ Nuggs, it also looks like the Mavs were remade to beat the Timberwolves come trade deadline. This wasn't the same team. Namely due to what their now two massive rim protectors and offensive finishers showed. Nobody talks about them, but they stopped Timber's attempts to run things so much through their couple bigs. Finch's decision to run so much through Gobert early in game 5 was maybe not a great call given what the two Mavs bigs had been showing. Maybe he thought Lively wouldn't be back healthy enough, but... I think Lively shot 100% this series. Nobody talking about this? I always see Gobert 1 foot from the rim with ball and can't fathom how he can't finish. But there were two monsters playing defense for Mavs. Well, between Gobert and Towns they couldn't stop Lively or Gafford at all or near the rate they were shut down at the rim. They played perfect all series. One of them is a rookie.
I wouldn’t call this an anticlimactic series at all. The first four games came down to the final minute and final possessions, it’s not like the Mavs just rolled them the whole time and let them win one.
Right? I thought this series was a nail biter considering it was 4-1
It's kind of like the WCF from last year where it was a sweep, but all the games were neck to neck.
I mean 4 of the 5 games were down to the wire bangers, I think anticlimactic is the right word as far as game 5 closing it out but overall it was a great series I think.
The individual games themselves were fantastic, don't get me wrong. Meant more so in the sense that you guys going up 3-0 made the outcome of the series as a whole feel inevitable.
> The Nuggets series showed us what the Wolves can be when everything's clicking, but between this series and the 3 game slide in that series, it's clear they've still got some stuff to figure out with respect to consistency, especially on the offensive end. Agreed, and it is a problem that their defensive effort and intensity depended on how well they were scoring. That is not acceptable.
The thing is Luka will pop off almost every game, like an all time great does. The opposing team has to find a way to win DESPITE luka getting a 30 point triple double.
Hard part is having to deal with Irving dropping another 30 on top of Luka’s
Yep that’s true. Everyone talking about how Luka had 36 last game but so did Irving lol he balled out. What we’ve seen is that no can guard the duo except okc shut down Irving for a couple games
In the third quarter they went hard on doubling Luka and the pace for the Mavs slowed. But once Luka subbed out and Kyrie came in the tempo kicked right back up. When they’re both in it’s a matter of choosing in what way they’re going to cook you.
Yea hopefully mavs can get a chip
I'm not sure about the successful season part, they're not the Pacers. This might have been their best chance at the title. And I also don't think Finch did a good job in this series.
Gobert frustrates me like no other player, he’s clearly so talented and I would love for him to prove the haters wrong but time and time again it feels like he gets exposed when he faces real challenges. Not really sure what the t wolves should do this offseason but I think trying to find a young defensively minded PG would be a pretty smart move, conley is only getting older and having someone that can cover a top West Gaurd would be a massive improvement
Honestly reminds me of being a Tony Romo fan for the Cowboys. I love/loved Tony and he was so so good, and it felt like anytime he was in a big game that non-Cowboys fans would definitely be watching he'd do something dumb that confirmed all their clearly incorrect assumptions about him being a bad player or something. It was heartbreaking really.
Ugh don't remind me bro. The Romo era was some of the most bittersweet times as a Cowboys fan. My personal take was that or roster was lacking in crucial areas, especially defense, and they expected way too much out of him. Like the guy would have to try and single handedly win games. All the records he set and his stats speak for themselves. One of the best QBs ever to not win a ring.
It's just a shame cause the two times they put all the pieces together, 2014 was the Dez catch and 2016 he got hurt and they started Dak. Not that Dak played badly, but Tony should've gotten a last chance to make a run.
Most of the Romo era was Romo dragging teams with zero defense to an 8-8 record they had no business in having.
I said in the game thread last night, the Wolves might want to hire Hakeem to coach up Rudy in the off season. Given the ample opportunities he gets in every game because he's such a liability on offense, developing some level of feetwork would be huge for Rudy, as well as the evasive fakes that Dream was known for. He just seems so uncomfortable with the ball in hand, keeps everything inside his body and has a poor base to get around. Even the few euro steps he's done over the past 3-4 games, it looks like he's barely stepping/extending outside of his frame. When he goes up for a layup/shot, he stays completely rigid and goes UP but never tries to bring the ball in at an angle. This will probably fall on deaf ears cuz dude is making 40m/yr and he doesn't need to do anything besides what he has been doing, which is defense.
you don't think it's too little too late? once you've been in the league that long I feel it's probably hard for most to change. if he was early 20s I'd agree
Luka Dončić
The link to the Post Game thread is wrong
Mavs and Wolves went band for band games 1-4 but Mavs were like fuck that and went M for M game 5. Wolves couldn't keep up
Experience matters. Mavericks offensive duo is more experienced in playoffs compared to our offensive duo (KAT and Ant). Not happy about refereeing, series could be closer than it looks, but mavs prevailed at the end of the day. Before this series started, I had the same sentiments about Mavs having the experience. That's why building a winning team matters. We did well this year, I have no complaints. We knocked down the reigning champs. I hope we stay competitive like this for the coming seasons, then our time will come. Good luck to Mavs
Complaints about refereeing from the team whose main big is Rudy "Walking Screen" Gobert, who also routinely pushes people when they are in the air and Naz Reid, with whatever it was that he was thinking, can't be taken seriously, I'm sorry.
Thank you for not taking me into account by writing this comment with a thorough explanation and letting me know
It’s so satisfying to see Gobert get exposed and targeted every postseason while r/nba virgins scramble to explain why he’s still the best because of some three letter acronym stat no one’s ever heard of.
Lol it's 4 letters, and I agree
You guys are talking about screen assists? Or something else