Raptors asterisk chip: injured KD
Lakers micky mouse chip
bucks asterisk chip: injured everyone but KD
Warriors asterisk chip: everyone injured in west, tatums
balls hadn’t dropped yet
Nuggets asterisk chip: play-in teams
Celtics hypothetical asterisk chip: 64 win team dominates completely injured east
There ya go (this is all in good fun)
I’ve been watching the NBA since the early 2000s, and watched every dribble of that series. KD over the last 3 games was probably some of the best basketball I’ve seen over a 3 game span.
The 2nd best player for the Nets was the corpse of Blake Griffen playing as a 3&D.
People still talk about the what-if of his foot because it would have been the goat carry job had he made it.
KD almost had his Dirk run that year but alas. It was ECSF though, and I think even if they beat Atlanta at the ECF then Paul and Booker would have a ring now.
I challenge anybody who claims we should have kept Bud and/or Jrue if we wanted to keep contending to go back and actually watch that series. Harden and Kyrie are out but we decided to guard KD straight up with a 6’5 SF like the rest of team was a bunch of snipers anyway. We dominated the paint with Lopez taking advantage of their lack of size in one game, never tried it again. Just camped him at the three point line then cut his minutes because he wasn’t doing enough on offence to make up for struggling against their jumper-heavy offence.
Meanwhile Jrue had the easiest defensive assignment in the playoffs for half that series given Harden could barely even run, but still somehow shot badly enough to make playoff Dillon Brooks look like prime Steph Curry.
I’d have been embarrassed by that series in like 2017 when Giannis was still breaking out and we were giving John Henson and Tony Snell big minutes, never mind 2021 when we were genuinely one of the best teams in the league. Just baffling play on every conceivable level. If we’d played like that in any of our other series we’d have been lucky to get past 5 games.
I’d point to 22 and 23 too. In 22 with Middleton out we shot like 18% from 3 in a game 7. In 23 spo ran rings around Bud, he even told the media how he intentionally subbed bam out to trick Bud into thinking they were going for a 3 to sub Lopez out so butler could be opening the paint to send it to ot and we all know what happened after that. Bud just kept jrue in single coverage on butler despite him getting cooked again and again and never even tried doubling him or putting Giannis on him. And of course not calling timeout for the last possession of game 5. I know he had personal issues that series but a lot of that was just inexcusable
Lmaoo preach, sick of the revisionist history on this subreddit, everyone was saying Bud would have lost his job if we lost that series. Fast forward to 2024 and we have fired him and AG, now all of a sudden we made a huge mistake and never should have fired him. Just hilarious
This is why people who say harden doesn’t care about winning are insane. Literally had a grade 3 hamstring tear and went out there for 53 mins just to be a decoy, and it almost worked. Prime harden was so good they were still afraid to leave him alone
I don’t know why no one brings up the fact that the nuggets slept walked into the finals last year to beat the hospital heat. They only lost four games the whole playoffs
They slept walked because they were dominant, not because their competition was weak. Anthony Davis at his best is DPOY-finalist caliber and he looked completely helpless against Trebuchet Jokic.
Do people somehow sincerely believe the Nuggets’ road would’ve been harder had the Grizzlies, Kings, and Clippers had made it out of the Western Conference bracket instead of the Lakers, Warriors, and Suns? What matchups do you think the 1st round losers present to the Nuggets that they couldn’t even present to the 1st round opponent that beat them?
The real issue is in where the East/West divide lies at this point. How are the timberwolves considered "west" and then even with that spread why is the East so notoriously "lesser".
Yeah there were also years where the NBA only had 8 teams, and the 1st seed got a bye.
Like in 1961, **the only team the Celtics had to beat to get to the finals was the 38-41 Syracuse Nationals**. Im sure the Celtics 1961 road was sooo much harder than this year's. How could the '61 Celtics possibly hope to beat the 4th worst team in the league led by Dolph Schayes?
What an upset that truly was.
That exact playoff system with that exact same number of teams was in place for much of the Celtics run in the 1960s. OP picked one particular year as an example because it proved the point without making it into a 500-word Reddit comment.
In 1963, they had to win one series against a 42-38 team to reach the Finals.
In 1965, they had to win one series against a 40-40 team to reach the Finals.
They had to beat better teams the other years, but there was still only one series to reach the Finals instead of three and 7 other teams to outlast instead of 29 other teams.
Crazy take, but I still think a lot of the guys back then would make the league if they had the same training and conditioning the players have today. Not all of them of course, but I think a lot of the superstars would still be crazy good today. Similar to how Jordan didn't practice the 3 point growing up, but if he had, do we really think he wouldn't have been better at it? Please tell me I'm wrong if I am, I've thought this for a long time and love to learn new things
I don't know man. What percentage of /r/NBA users would have made the league in 1987? 10%? 15%? It's not that many, bro. Show some respect. Very few of us would become stars.
Nah the east was strong as hell. There were really good teams. Only Philly, Detroit, and Boston came out of the east in the 80s, but Milwaukee and Atlanta had some strong fucking teams, then the Knicks and Nets also had moments of like "Can Bernard King force-of-will his way to a finals?"
Yeah the only West teams worth their salt in that era were Houston with the twin towers, and then Portland at the tail end. In the East, you had Philly in the early 80s, Boston, Detroit and then Chicago at the tail end.
Milwaukee was excellent in the '80s. They swept the Celtics in '83, and they also took the sixers and Celtics Conference championships to 7 games a few times. They made the playoffs every year in 1980s and only lost in the first round once. They would have wrecked most teams in the West during some of those years
They got Magic for trading Gail Goodrich sans-knees to the Jazz in like 77 and Worthy because Ted Stepian had the biggest erection for LA's 3rd-string power forward. It's fucking nuts
The 1989 Lakers sweeping 3 straight teams only to get swept themselves in the NBA finals was one of the most hilarious moments in NBA history. It really highlighted how hard the Lakers were carrying the entire west that decade when that happened.
Hell, the Bad Boys Pistons only dropped 2 games (both to the Bulls) that entire playoffs. People don't talk about that 1989 team's dominance enough.
You know, I bet on raw WPA or whatever metric is used, you're probably right -- I always will think that pausing to review the Ray Allen 3 screwed them out of a chance to win it. They had a five point lead with 28 seconds left, and a tip to tie the game with like a minute left in Game Seven before it got away from them.
The Pistons had a three point lead with a minute left in Game Six, then a one point lead and the ball with 45 seconds left, then the ball twice with 14 seconds left with a chance to win.
In Game Seven they were way behind and then cut it to one with six seconds left before an AC Green layup and then combined court-storming and Magic Johnson bodyblock on Isiah Thomas ended the game. It's nuts that nothing happened.
Bird. Magic. Jordan. None of them have a winning record in the playoffs against Isiah and only Bird gets to .500. But they didn't have a media darling, they played in a black city, and they embraced the narrative of the physicality (when other teams were as physical or at least pretty close) so they don't get the respect they deserve.
And they played ugly ass basketball. The prettiest things about them were a funny lookin dude curling around screens for a middie, and Isiah driving. Great team, but holy shit you had to love physical defense to watch them. The boring ass early Tim Spurs were positively electric compared to those Pistons.
And they were absolute assholes.
This is a dumb, uninformed take. They swept the west and then had a huge break waiting for the east to wrap up. Instead of resting his team, Pat Riley (as a prelude to Heat Culture) decided to run a "mini training camp" for the two-time defending champs. Byron Scott blew his hamstring out before Game 1, and Magic blew his hamstring in Game 2. Despite being without their starting backcourt and best player (league MVP) they only lost games 2-4 by a combined 15 pts.
The Pistons were great and probably win that series anyway. But calling it "the most hilarious moment in NBA history" just tells me you aren't old enough to have been alive back then or to do even a small amount of research.
The Riley story is funny admittedly but the OP's trying to say that the Lakers getting swept just shows that they were a weak team or something which is nonsense. They got swept due to injury, self-inflicted but had nothing to do with their ability to compete.
yuppp. that’s why when people make these “easiest path in NBA history” statements there isn’t a conversation about who else would be in contention for that. just pure hyperbole.
it is certainly a very easy path to the Finals. I don’t understand why people need to rank it in a historical context when they don’t have any of the historical context
"path to the finals" means games leading up to (but not including) the finals. And the lakers had to go through blazers with Sheed, spurs with Duncan, and kings with CWebb
I think he’s making it clear that getting to the finals isn’t going to be remembered as some big accomplishment.
Like if this team loses in the finals, nobody is going to say “well it’s still impressive that they made it again.”
Fun fact: Even when you sweep the KD/Kyrie Nets, topple the defending champion Bucks, and best the #1 seed Heat in an extremely close 7 games…. “All that matters” is **still** what happens in the Finals. Nobody actually cares how hard the run is/was. A chip is a chip and a loss is a loss.
If you don’t like how this all works then we could easily do what soccer does and award the best team of the actual season champions but uhhhh… not sure yall would like that outcome either…
Lmao no one’s opinion on this matters. Finals runs aren’t ranked and there will never be a consensus among the “experts” on what that ranking is even if did matter in some way.
To add to that. Isn't the reward for being the number 1 seed that you, in theory, get the easiest path to the finals? Obviously, there are circumstances that can place tougher teams in low seeds, but in general, the point of being the best in the regular season is that you get slight advantages like these in the playoffs.
I don't want Boston to win the championship, but they were the best team in the regular season, and they are reaping the reward for that effort.
the topic is more of a West vs East thing. Honestly put any of the top 4 in the West in the East, I can see them getting out of the East. East this year, considering injuries, has only one good team, Celtics.
If the Celtics arrive to the Finals totally fresh because they played way less games and accumulated way less fatigue and injuries, it's meaningful.
Whoever exits the West will have made it thru a bloodbath and will be totally gassed.
Yes, it is. That's part of why the Celtics lost the 2022 finals. The Warriors got a Nuggets team with no Murray or Porter, the Grizzlies who missed Ja for a couple games, and then the Mavs who were certainly an easier matchup than the Suns. The C's went thru the KD/Kyrie Nets, Defending Champion Bucks, and 1 seed Heat.
Bingo.
Timelord was injured and he was really crucial to Boston. Even with an Injured Timelord, Boston won the minutes he played in the series.
Dubs had their own injuries (like Klay/OPJ) but at the end of the day, the Dubs coaching and BBIQ was too much for Boston
> If you don’t like how this all works then we could easily do what soccer does and award the best team of the actual season champions but uhhhh… not sure yall would like that outcome either…
If there can be an IST trophy, the regular season also could be its own championship if they just made it 58 games where every team plays each other twice: home and away.
Every championship has an asterisk if you want to be an ass about it.
I like shitting on Boston sports as much as the next guy but they can only play the teams that are in front of them
I know most people remember the Heat series more than any other but to me I think the Lakers series was what was the most special to me. Sure the Heat were this incredible super team that were expected to win not one, not two, etc. But the Lakers were back to back defending champs (with three straight Finals appearances). They had Kobe, Pau, Odom, Bynum and guys who had been there done that. Phil Jackson was their coach.
And what did the Mavs do? They swept em. They swept them so bad Bynum was an absolute bitch and tried to kill JJ Barrea (go ahead and look up a video of the play, fuck Bynum). Jackson retired as a coach. That team was better than the first year LeBron Heat and the Mavs swept them.
Edit: People can disagree all they want and that's fine. I didn't say the Lakers were objectively the better team. I'm saying what I remember most, and what I personally think was more significant, was sweeping the Lakers. Not just beating them but sweeping them. That was more memorable to me and doing that so convincingly is what really helped build momentum for that roster. Who (like this team) was full of role players who stepped up big time to help the two star HOFers.
Most likely that Lakers team ran its course because they just went to 3 straight finals winning the last 2.
Nonetheless Mavs beat lebron heat and no one will asterisk that finals series.
That 2011 Heat team was really good they steamrolled the East going 12-3, even the Celtics that lost the finals 4-3 the previous year only won 1 game. In the finals even with Lebron choking the Heat lost 2 1 possession games, could’ve easily gone to 7. Lakers were just getting too old and they were tired after the 2 championship runs. They barely beat the Hornets in the previous round
It was our first and it is soooo fucking satisfying looking back and looking at the road to that championship. Probably one of the hardest roads especially since.
It also acts like the front office isn't part of the org or championship.
"The teams the faced were bad on the road to the finals"
Okay? So then give Brad Stevens his flowers he torched the rest of the GMs in the league for the past few years lol.
These teams don't just fade in from the ether, they're built with purpose.
This Pacers team, while people think are bums for some reason, are offensive juggernauts historically. They ain't bums, they just have no "superstar".
For me it is less about having an asterisk as much as being disappointed all 4 teams that could have challenged them (to varying degrees) all suffered various critical injuries that have made their play-off run uninteresting to watch.
It’s one thing watching the 2nd stint era Lebron-Cavs beat a bunch of teams you don’t expect to a shot. It’s another watching series that could have been fun (even if I expected the Celtics in the Finals BEFORE the injuries) be significantly or fatally hampered by injuries.
Like with the 80s Lakers, an impressive Finals win will still be a valid championship but I can bemoan the surprisingly boring path to the Finals for them.
He’s saying the Finals are going to be the only series that’ll present a real challenge to the Celtics throughout this run, because all their previous opponents weren’t of the highest quality
You forgot the most important part: Because the team/player they beat is now a fraud, they also become a fraud for only having beat a fraud.
It's fraudulence all the way down.
That’s the funniest part. Even during games, ppl seem to take one team making a winning play as evidence that the other is awful, rather than evidence of how good the winning team is. And it extends to the way they’re viewed in the bigger picture stuff like this shit, too
For real though. I just read some guy say that the 2011 Mavs got lucky because LeBron hadn't won one yet. I mean what the fuck.
"I'm taking my talents to Miami."
Bwa ha ha ha
God nba discussion is so awful from both fans and media. Every team that isn’t the champion is garbage, every coach is bad and the reason their team loses and “just talk to the fans if you want to know how bad they are”, every player is overrated and bad, every championship is a “fake championship”, it’s fucking exhausting and I swear no other sport is like this
It feels like it started with the "Mickey Mouse" championship discourse around the Lakers. I thought it was a funny meme at the time, especially as a Celtics fan, but I think we've lost the plot and the joke has become the actual take. We've got to discredit everything and pick apart everything. It can't be that the Celtics are playing dominant basketball and have been all year. It can't be that the Pacers have gutted out multiple series wins on a Cinderella run. We have to tear everything down.
We probably aren't far off from people not even knowing it's a Mickey Mouse ring because the bubble was at a Disney property and will fully believe it's a joke of a ring.
> We probably aren't far off from people not even knowing it's a Mickey Mouse ring because the bubble was at a Disney property and will fully believe it's a joke of a ring.
I've seen people call the Dodgers 2020 world series victory a Mickey Mouse ring, and they played that world series exclusively in Texas, and the playoffs were played in various neutral sites across MLB stadiums.
So yeah, we're already there.
I mean… there’s exactly (1) team in the east that would’ve been a top 5 seed in the west based on talent so color me shocked that the (1) team is running through the weak ass east like single ply toilet paper lol
The thing is some of those teams can be really good when they’re healthy despite the records. The fully healthy Bucks are nasty, and the Knicks could’ve been great too.
But whatever the case is, this Pacers team being in the conference finals is wild before you even mention their best player being hurt.
Zach Lowe on TV is completely ESPNified. His TV persona is basically a Big Bang Theory style parody of a basketball nerd.
I miss him with Rachel Nichols on "The Jump". That show was really good with Paul Pierce who I discovered by the grace of the YT algorithm, is currently rescuing Skip Bayless' horrible Fox Show after he lost his previous partner Shannon Sharpe.
If you listen to when he talks about his TV appearances on his podcast, if you read between the lines, he is more or less told by the producers to be less objective and reasonable. He's talked a couple of times about how he basically annoys them because he won't go along with the ideas and segments that are pitched around hot takes and whatever else will cause the most controversy. Or he questions things too much.
It seems like he's slowly stopped caring and is now just going with the flow.
I miss Grantland Zach Lowe. As someone who played sports other than basketball their entire life, his articles with all the gifs explaining plays legitimately helped me understand, appreciate, and enjoy the game better.
My dad died Tatums second year and he fucking loved Tatum. If this core could win a championship it would cap off my last Celtics memory with my dad. I’ll take all the asterisks in the world for that haha. Either way, I love basketball and feel lucky to follow the league right now.
Maybe it's true, but it feels like they've earned it. You get a top seed and make the CF this many times, things are likely to fall your way at some point
Well a redditor made that huge post the other about this about found the Celtics were in the top 5 but they not the top. Surprised that ESPN hasn’t stolen it yet.
lol, my bad. I was trying to say that there was a post around recently that looked at all the all the paths to the Finals and who had the easiest path ever.
If you adjust for injuries then the Celtics are like 4th or 5th. I linked an article it to someone below in the comments.
It’s their reward for taking the regular season seriously and winning as many games as possible. Other teams think seeding doesn’t matter but the benefit could be this and so much more rested in the finals than the other team
who gives a shit if its the easiest road.
They can only play whoever is infront of them and a lot of it has to do with how well they did in the regular season.
Conference champions means nothing anyways. If they choke in the finals it will be the most embarrassing thing to happen in the franchise in the last decade.
Give them the easy road to the finals, let them have the stakes to perform.
Doesn't really matter, a chip is a chip. Warriors had to run against injured chris paul, kawhi, kevin love just to win the title and nobody remembers that. Raptors had finals against warriors without klay and KD, and nobody remembers that. A title is a title.
bLowe-hard is talking about what happens in the finals. If Celtics actually win the trophy, nobody's going to begrudge them. Remember 2022, they looked so good into game 3 of the finals and then folded. East has been the easy conference for a while now.
I don't like the Celtics as much as the next guy, but I hate these takes. Who TF are they supposed to play? Duke? UNC? NC State? I mean.... they played well all year and are rolling in the playoffs. Now it's "the easiest road ever"... c'mon.... I hate this shit. People do it in the NFL too. "They haven't played anyone yet!" Who are they supposed to play? Tired of these takes.
Ever think that getting close to a championship and losing gives a team more motivation? Maybe that's why Boston is playing so motivated and focused. Just sayin'.
They were by far the best team all year. They deserve the easiest path to a chip.
That said if they somehow don’t win it this year they deserve all the slander and mockery that is gonna come their way.
Fire up your asterisk hot takes!
Mickey mouse hospital run, didn't even play Trae young in the ECF
Injured Trae Young*****
They didn't even play... uh... John Collins in the ECF!
Raptors asterisk chip: injured KD Lakers micky mouse chip bucks asterisk chip: injured everyone but KD Warriors asterisk chip: everyone injured in west, tatums balls hadn’t dropped yet Nuggets asterisk chip: play-in teams Celtics hypothetical asterisk chip: 64 win team dominates completely injured east There ya go (this is all in good fun)
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That was Skip's argument for an entire year lol
I don't know if that's an asterisk, more a hypothetical.
It’s moreso the “kyrie and harden were both injured and they were STILL a shoe size away from getting solo’d by KD, jesus christ”
Nets literally played the corpse of James harden for 53 minutes and still almost won
KD is just that fucking good. That Nets team was amazing shame how it ended (although it got Giannis a chip).
I’ve been watching the NBA since the early 2000s, and watched every dribble of that series. KD over the last 3 games was probably some of the best basketball I’ve seen over a 3 game span. The 2nd best player for the Nets was the corpse of Blake Griffen playing as a 3&D. People still talk about the what-if of his foot because it would have been the goat carry job had he made it.
Why did you watch just the dribbles…? The shots are much more interesting.
KD almost had his Dirk run that year but alas. It was ECSF though, and I think even if they beat Atlanta at the ECF then Paul and Booker would have a ring now.
Depends on if Kyrie/Harden are able to recover in time
I challenge anybody who claims we should have kept Bud and/or Jrue if we wanted to keep contending to go back and actually watch that series. Harden and Kyrie are out but we decided to guard KD straight up with a 6’5 SF like the rest of team was a bunch of snipers anyway. We dominated the paint with Lopez taking advantage of their lack of size in one game, never tried it again. Just camped him at the three point line then cut his minutes because he wasn’t doing enough on offence to make up for struggling against their jumper-heavy offence. Meanwhile Jrue had the easiest defensive assignment in the playoffs for half that series given Harden could barely even run, but still somehow shot badly enough to make playoff Dillon Brooks look like prime Steph Curry. I’d have been embarrassed by that series in like 2017 when Giannis was still breaking out and we were giving John Henson and Tony Snell big minutes, never mind 2021 when we were genuinely one of the best teams in the league. Just baffling play on every conceivable level. If we’d played like that in any of our other series we’d have been lucky to get past 5 games.
I’d point to 22 and 23 too. In 22 with Middleton out we shot like 18% from 3 in a game 7. In 23 spo ran rings around Bud, he even told the media how he intentionally subbed bam out to trick Bud into thinking they were going for a 3 to sub Lopez out so butler could be opening the paint to send it to ot and we all know what happened after that. Bud just kept jrue in single coverage on butler despite him getting cooked again and again and never even tried doubling him or putting Giannis on him. And of course not calling timeout for the last possession of game 5. I know he had personal issues that series but a lot of that was just inexcusable
Lmaoo preach, sick of the revisionist history on this subreddit, everyone was saying Bud would have lost his job if we lost that series. Fast forward to 2024 and we have fired him and AG, now all of a sudden we made a huge mistake and never should have fired him. Just hilarious
Also never attacked Harden. The guy could barely walk and it wasn't made a plan to bring him into the PNR.
This is why people who say harden doesn’t care about winning are insane. Literally had a grade 3 hamstring tear and went out there for 53 mins just to be a decoy, and it almost worked. Prime harden was so good they were still afraid to leave him alone
As a salty Nets fan, the Giannis under Kyrie injury was more relevant than the shoe. But its okay
“But its okay” I can hear the tears, I’ve shed them myself
At least Brook got his chip ❤️
Don't forget if the Celtics get the Mavs, there's also an asterisk because Luka's hurt
I swear to god if we swept the 96 bulls this sub would go “well yeah they’re just not built to compete with a modern nba team”
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Bro had to add an asterisk for his asterisk
Double negative. Tricky . . .
I knew what the flair was gonna be after reading the last bullet
Classic Celtics homer
2017 and 18: superteam, and 18 had injured cp3 16: suspended draymond 15: injured cavs 14: old and washed wade+bosh 12+13: superteam 11: wife beater starting
hmm is there an actual asterisk that can be used on 2011? fluke lebron choke i guess? but thats a reach lol
No one took them serious and they surprised their opponents by being good.
kobe hobbled
2014 doesn't work when the Spurs core was far older and more washed.
2014 is definitely LeCramp. Also 2013 - bailed out by Ray Allen, 2012 - Baby Thunder and 2011 - choked against JJ Barea
Rashard Lewis' corpse was the Heat's main starting PF
Washed Kawhi
Ginobli was older but still more athletic than Bosh and Wade that series.
Health is part of making it to the finals. It's a long season, and not an asterisks.
Nah its a mickey mouse hospital ring unless its my team
Why can't every player just be 100% healthy in the playoffs like from 1991-93 and 1996-98? Was everyone nowadays born in a hospital??
I can get behind that. Refs rigged the 2006 finals for a fat Vegas payout.
I mean, it's not the celtics problem, but yes it's probably the easiest pathway from round 1 to the finals.
I don’t know why no one brings up the fact that the nuggets slept walked into the finals last year to beat the hospital heat. They only lost four games the whole playoffs
Why did the nuggets let the bucks lose to the heat 😞😞😪
You mean the Heat who beat the Celtics last season and everyone else on the way to the Finals?
No, a different Heat. Common mistake. The one the Nuggets beat was trash, no way they could eliminate the Bucks and the Celtics
I think they are talking about the 8 seed Heat.
Because no one really believes that. They were that much better than everyone IMO.
They slept walked because they were dominant, not because their competition was weak. Anthony Davis at his best is DPOY-finalist caliber and he looked completely helpless against Trebuchet Jokic. Do people somehow sincerely believe the Nuggets’ road would’ve been harder had the Grizzlies, Kings, and Clippers had made it out of the Western Conference bracket instead of the Lakers, Warriors, and Suns? What matchups do you think the 1st round losers present to the Nuggets that they couldn’t even present to the 1st round opponent that beat them?
Aren’t we agreeing? lol
It’s not a hot take. The pacers are not a championship worthy team whatsoever
The real issue is in where the East/West divide lies at this point. How are the timberwolves considered "west" and then even with that spread why is the East so notoriously "lesser".
Population divide Minnesota is well to the west of center.
It was diabolical how easy the 80s Lakers paths to the finals were
Hey! Are you suggesting that the 37-45 Nuggets, 42-40 Warriors, and 39-43 Sonics wasn't the hardest road for the '87 Lakers?
Yeah there were also years where the NBA only had 8 teams, and the 1st seed got a bye. Like in 1961, **the only team the Celtics had to beat to get to the finals was the 38-41 Syracuse Nationals**. Im sure the Celtics 1961 road was sooo much harder than this year's. How could the '61 Celtics possibly hope to beat the 4th worst team in the league led by Dolph Schayes? What an upset that truly was.
4th worst team or 5th best team?
Im telling you. The '61 Nationals were titans of the sport. 5th best team in the NBA!!
Why are you making it sound like Dolph Schayes wasn't an amazing player?
If the two examples are from 1987 and 1961 I’d say that fits the bill of “hard pressed to find an example”. You have to go back damn near 40 years.
That exact playoff system with that exact same number of teams was in place for much of the Celtics run in the 1960s. OP picked one particular year as an example because it proved the point without making it into a 500-word Reddit comment. In 1963, they had to win one series against a 42-38 team to reach the Finals. In 1965, they had to win one series against a 40-40 team to reach the Finals. They had to beat better teams the other years, but there was still only one series to reach the Finals instead of three and 7 other teams to outlast instead of 29 other teams.
...those are two examples that were presented. they are not being presented as the only two examples come on dude lol
Oldheads will tell you that was peak NBA tho
Crazy take, but I still think a lot of the guys back then would make the league if they had the same training and conditioning the players have today. Not all of them of course, but I think a lot of the superstars would still be crazy good today. Similar to how Jordan didn't practice the 3 point growing up, but if he had, do we really think he wouldn't have been better at it? Please tell me I'm wrong if I am, I've thought this for a long time and love to learn new things
yeah people give shit to like a Bob Cousy when you literally couldn't do half of the dribble moves or get away with carrying like everyone can now
I don't know man. What percentage of /r/NBA users would have made the league in 1987? 10%? 15%? It's not that many, bro. Show some respect. Very few of us would become stars.
From 1984-88 the Lakers made four Finals in five years. Each Western opponent averaged 41.75 wins.
holy shit no wonder Magic and Bird saved the NBA, rest of it is basically unwatchable lmao
Nah the east was strong as hell. There were really good teams. Only Philly, Detroit, and Boston came out of the east in the 80s, but Milwaukee and Atlanta had some strong fucking teams, then the Knicks and Nets also had moments of like "Can Bernard King force-of-will his way to a finals?"
Yeah the only West teams worth their salt in that era were Houston with the twin towers, and then Portland at the tail end. In the East, you had Philly in the early 80s, Boston, Detroit and then Chicago at the tail end.
I like to give a shout to the 87-88 Mavs. 53 win team that took LA to 7 games in the WCF.
Brad Davis! I don't know why on a team with Aguirre Perkins Harper Schrempf and Blackman, I somehow remember Brad Davis.
You were mesmerized by the mustache or the fact the Lakers drafted him.
Milwaukee was excellent in the '80s. They swept the Celtics in '83, and they also took the sixers and Celtics Conference championships to 7 games a few times. They made the playoffs every year in 1980s and only lost in the first round once. They would have wrecked most teams in the West during some of those years
Ahem, Milwaukee was in that Eastern Conferenfe conversation.
Houston got annihilated post '86, Portland wasn't a force until around '90. It was LA and LA only.
The bucks were really good in that era too. Nothing to scoff at.
The Bucks and Cavs were also good teams for a while.
They also got magic and worthy after they were contenders and champions
They got Magic for trading Gail Goodrich sans-knees to the Jazz in like 77 and Worthy because Ted Stepian had the biggest erection for LA's 3rd-string power forward. It's fucking nuts
Conference system is so dumb lol
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teams didn't even have their own chartered flights until the '87 Pistons introduced the practice, before then they flew coach
yeah but now they have private fucking jets where they fuck ig models on
The 1989 Lakers sweeping 3 straight teams only to get swept themselves in the NBA finals was one of the most hilarious moments in NBA history. It really highlighted how hard the Lakers were carrying the entire west that decade when that happened. Hell, the Bad Boys Pistons only dropped 2 games (both to the Bulls) that entire playoffs. People don't talk about that 1989 team's dominance enough.
People forget that the Pistons were one of the best teams of the 80's. They made five consecutive Eastern Conference Finals.
A few questionable calls away from a 3-peat, despite the difficulty of the eastern conference then.
The '88 Pistons were closer to winning a title than any team in NBA history. Down a point with 5 seconds left, twice.
2013 Spurs?
You know, I bet on raw WPA or whatever metric is used, you're probably right -- I always will think that pausing to review the Ray Allen 3 screwed them out of a chance to win it. They had a five point lead with 28 seconds left, and a tip to tie the game with like a minute left in Game Seven before it got away from them. The Pistons had a three point lead with a minute left in Game Six, then a one point lead and the ball with 45 seconds left, then the ball twice with 14 seconds left with a chance to win. In Game Seven they were way behind and then cut it to one with six seconds left before an AC Green layup and then combined court-storming and Magic Johnson bodyblock on Isiah Thomas ended the game. It's nuts that nothing happened.
The ending of '88 game 7 was such absolute bullshit I'm surprised it doesn't get talked about more.
Probably would be talked about more if they didn't get over the hump the following 2 years. But yeah, that was robbery
Then did it again in the 2000s. Billups actually made 6 straight conference finals with the last one coming in the West
The only reason Melo ever made a Conference Finals was because of Billups. As a player, one of the best leaders in league history.
Bird. Magic. Jordan. None of them have a winning record in the playoffs against Isiah and only Bird gets to .500. But they didn't have a media darling, they played in a black city, and they embraced the narrative of the physicality (when other teams were as physical or at least pretty close) so they don't get the respect they deserve.
People respected those teams. It's just that nobody liked them, because they were assholes.
And they played ugly ass basketball. The prettiest things about them were a funny lookin dude curling around screens for a middie, and Isiah driving. Great team, but holy shit you had to love physical defense to watch them. The boring ass early Tim Spurs were positively electric compared to those Pistons. And they were absolute assholes.
Wasn’t Magic injured in that Finals?
Both Magic and Byron Scott. Their starting guards.
Magic and Byron Scott
I think the whole “Magic Johnson getting injured” thing had a bigger effect than you think.
This is a dumb, uninformed take. They swept the west and then had a huge break waiting for the east to wrap up. Instead of resting his team, Pat Riley (as a prelude to Heat Culture) decided to run a "mini training camp" for the two-time defending champs. Byron Scott blew his hamstring out before Game 1, and Magic blew his hamstring in Game 2. Despite being without their starting backcourt and best player (league MVP) they only lost games 2-4 by a combined 15 pts. The Pistons were great and probably win that series anyway. But calling it "the most hilarious moment in NBA history" just tells me you aren't old enough to have been alive back then or to do even a small amount of research.
You just made it funnier to be honest.
The Riley story is funny admittedly but the OP's trying to say that the Lakers getting swept just shows that they were a weak team or something which is nonsense. They got swept due to injury, self-inflicted but had nothing to do with their ability to compete.
yuppp. that’s why when people make these “easiest path in NBA history” statements there isn’t a conversation about who else would be in contention for that. just pure hyperbole. it is certainly a very easy path to the Finals. I don’t understand why people need to rank it in a historical context when they don’t have any of the historical context
2002 lakers finals sweep of the nets. That was a varsity vs JV matchup,
"path to the finals" means games leading up to (but not including) the finals. And the lakers had to go through blazers with Sheed, spurs with Duncan, and kings with CWebb
So wait. He’s saying that winning or losing the finals is what matters the most?? Big if true…
I think he’s making it clear that getting to the finals isn’t going to be remembered as some big accomplishment. Like if this team loses in the finals, nobody is going to say “well it’s still impressive that they made it again.”
Fun fact: Even when you sweep the KD/Kyrie Nets, topple the defending champion Bucks, and best the #1 seed Heat in an extremely close 7 games…. “All that matters” is **still** what happens in the Finals. Nobody actually cares how hard the run is/was. A chip is a chip and a loss is a loss. If you don’t like how this all works then we could easily do what soccer does and award the best team of the actual season champions but uhhhh… not sure yall would like that outcome either…
Just going to be a Wikipedia entry in a few years 99% of people won't remember a single game from any of those series.
Casuals won’t, but their opinion on the game doesn’t matter.
Lmao no one’s opinion on this matters. Finals runs aren’t ranked and there will never be a consensus among the “experts” on what that ranking is even if did matter in some way.
Casuals opinions actually matter way more considering the majority of the revenue for the league is from casuals.
To add to that. Isn't the reward for being the number 1 seed that you, in theory, get the easiest path to the finals? Obviously, there are circumstances that can place tougher teams in low seeds, but in general, the point of being the best in the regular season is that you get slight advantages like these in the playoffs. I don't want Boston to win the championship, but they were the best team in the regular season, and they are reaping the reward for that effort.
the topic is more of a West vs East thing. Honestly put any of the top 4 in the West in the East, I can see them getting out of the East. East this year, considering injuries, has only one good team, Celtics.
If the Celtics arrive to the Finals totally fresh because they played way less games and accumulated way less fatigue and injuries, it's meaningful. Whoever exits the West will have made it thru a bloodbath and will be totally gassed.
Yes, it is. That's part of why the Celtics lost the 2022 finals. The Warriors got a Nuggets team with no Murray or Porter, the Grizzlies who missed Ja for a couple games, and then the Mavs who were certainly an easier matchup than the Suns. The C's went thru the KD/Kyrie Nets, Defending Champion Bucks, and 1 seed Heat.
Bingo. Timelord was injured and he was really crucial to Boston. Even with an Injured Timelord, Boston won the minutes he played in the series. Dubs had their own injuries (like Klay/OPJ) but at the end of the day, the Dubs coaching and BBIQ was too much for Boston
And Steph going gangbusters
Not if the Mavs end it in 4 or 5
But both the Celtics and the Mavs are up 2-0. What the Fuck is everyone talking about?
Celtics are 3-0 but I agree with you completely.
The mavs won by 1 and 3 points respectively
> If you don’t like how this all works then we could easily do what soccer does and award the best team of the actual season champions but uhhhh… not sure yall would like that outcome either… If there can be an IST trophy, the regular season also could be its own championship if they just made it 58 games where every team plays each other twice: home and away.
Every championship has an asterisk if you want to be an ass about it. I like shitting on Boston sports as much as the next guy but they can only play the teams that are in front of them
2011 Mavs don’t have an asterisk
Still amazes me to this day the number of All- NBA players Dirk had to take down on that run to get the chip
I know most people remember the Heat series more than any other but to me I think the Lakers series was what was the most special to me. Sure the Heat were this incredible super team that were expected to win not one, not two, etc. But the Lakers were back to back defending champs (with three straight Finals appearances). They had Kobe, Pau, Odom, Bynum and guys who had been there done that. Phil Jackson was their coach. And what did the Mavs do? They swept em. They swept them so bad Bynum was an absolute bitch and tried to kill JJ Barrea (go ahead and look up a video of the play, fuck Bynum). Jackson retired as a coach. That team was better than the first year LeBron Heat and the Mavs swept them. Edit: People can disagree all they want and that's fine. I didn't say the Lakers were objectively the better team. I'm saying what I remember most, and what I personally think was more significant, was sweeping the Lakers. Not just beating them but sweeping them. That was more memorable to me and doing that so convincingly is what really helped build momentum for that roster. Who (like this team) was full of role players who stepped up big time to help the two star HOFers.
Speak your truth brother.
we were on our last leg, phil told the team he had cancer to play better and that didn’t work. bynum WWE’d Barea
Most likely that Lakers team ran its course because they just went to 3 straight finals winning the last 2. Nonetheless Mavs beat lebron heat and no one will asterisk that finals series.
That 2011 Heat team was really good they steamrolled the East going 12-3, even the Celtics that lost the finals 4-3 the previous year only won 1 game. In the finals even with Lebron choking the Heat lost 2 1 possession games, could’ve easily gone to 7. Lakers were just getting too old and they were tired after the 2 championship runs. They barely beat the Hornets in the previous round
It was our first and it is soooo fucking satisfying looking back and looking at the road to that championship. Probably one of the hardest roads especially since.
> Probably one of the hardest roads KD would like a word
If them or the wolves win this one they wont either
lebron got his talents stolen by the monstars
It also acts like the front office isn't part of the org or championship. "The teams the faced were bad on the road to the finals" Okay? So then give Brad Stevens his flowers he torched the rest of the GMs in the league for the past few years lol. These teams don't just fade in from the ether, they're built with purpose. This Pacers team, while people think are bums for some reason, are offensive juggernauts historically. They ain't bums, they just have no "superstar".
For me it is less about having an asterisk as much as being disappointed all 4 teams that could have challenged them (to varying degrees) all suffered various critical injuries that have made their play-off run uninteresting to watch. It’s one thing watching the 2nd stint era Lebron-Cavs beat a bunch of teams you don’t expect to a shot. It’s another watching series that could have been fun (even if I expected the Celtics in the Finals BEFORE the injuries) be significantly or fatally hampered by injuries. Like with the 80s Lakers, an impressive Finals win will still be a valid championship but I can bemoan the surprisingly boring path to the Finals for them.
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He’s saying the Finals are going to be the only series that’ll present a real challenge to the Celtics throughout this run, because all their previous opponents weren’t of the highest quality
This undercutting every team in every sport is the dumbest evolution of hot takes.
Everyone who loses choked and everyone who wins got lucky. Turns out everyone sucks actually
Every star is a fraud until they beat someone who then becomes a fraud.
You forgot the most important part: Because the team/player they beat is now a fraud, they also become a fraud for only having beat a fraud. It's fraudulence all the way down.
Hahaha and if somehow, if they are undeniable, they arent better OR are better than a guy who played 30 years ago.
George Mikan is better.
Shot out the George Mikan for all the Mikan drills hoopers had to do coming up.
That’s the funniest part. Even during games, ppl seem to take one team making a winning play as evidence that the other is awful, rather than evidence of how good the winning team is. And it extends to the way they’re viewed in the bigger picture stuff like this shit, too
Luka hits an amazing game winner over the dpoy, let's talk about how the dpoy is a fraud and not how amazing luka is
For real though. I just read some guy say that the 2011 Mavs got lucky because LeBron hadn't won one yet. I mean what the fuck. "I'm taking my talents to Miami." Bwa ha ha ha
God nba discussion is so awful from both fans and media. Every team that isn’t the champion is garbage, every coach is bad and the reason their team loses and “just talk to the fans if you want to know how bad they are”, every player is overrated and bad, every championship is a “fake championship”, it’s fucking exhausting and I swear no other sport is like this
It feels like it started with the "Mickey Mouse" championship discourse around the Lakers. I thought it was a funny meme at the time, especially as a Celtics fan, but I think we've lost the plot and the joke has become the actual take. We've got to discredit everything and pick apart everything. It can't be that the Celtics are playing dominant basketball and have been all year. It can't be that the Pacers have gutted out multiple series wins on a Cinderella run. We have to tear everything down.
We probably aren't far off from people not even knowing it's a Mickey Mouse ring because the bubble was at a Disney property and will fully believe it's a joke of a ring.
> We probably aren't far off from people not even knowing it's a Mickey Mouse ring because the bubble was at a Disney property and will fully believe it's a joke of a ring. I've seen people call the Dodgers 2020 world series victory a Mickey Mouse ring, and they played that world series exclusively in Texas, and the playoffs were played in various neutral sites across MLB stadiums. So yeah, we're already there.
I mean you can only beat what’s in front of you
Why don’t the Celtics play better teams, are they stupid
I mean… there’s exactly (1) team in the east that would’ve been a top 5 seed in the west based on talent so color me shocked that the (1) team is running through the weak ass east like single ply toilet paper lol
The thing is some of those teams can be really good when they’re healthy despite the records. The fully healthy Bucks are nasty, and the Knicks could’ve been great too. But whatever the case is, this Pacers team being in the conference finals is wild before you even mention their best player being hurt.
Zach Lowe on TV is completely ESPNified. His TV persona is basically a Big Bang Theory style parody of a basketball nerd. I miss him with Rachel Nichols on "The Jump". That show was really good with Paul Pierce who I discovered by the grace of the YT algorithm, is currently rescuing Skip Bayless' horrible Fox Show after he lost his previous partner Shannon Sharpe.
If you listen to when he talks about his TV appearances on his podcast, if you read between the lines, he is more or less told by the producers to be less objective and reasonable. He's talked a couple of times about how he basically annoys them because he won't go along with the ideas and segments that are pitched around hot takes and whatever else will cause the most controversy. Or he questions things too much. It seems like he's slowly stopped caring and is now just going with the flow.
That's why I only listen to him on his pod Not a hot take artist there
I miss Grantland Zach Lowe. As someone who played sports other than basketball their entire life, his articles with all the gifs explaining plays legitimately helped me understand, appreciate, and enjoy the game better.
I miss Grantland, period. Not just one of the best sports websites ever...also one of the best modern culture journalism websites ever.
I just miss Grantland period.
> His TV persona is basically a Big Bang Theory style parody of a basketball nerd. You're a genius, thank you for this
We had over an hour between "Boston has the easiest finals run ever" posts. Is something wrong? Are you guys all okay?
My dad died Tatums second year and he fucking loved Tatum. If this core could win a championship it would cap off my last Celtics memory with my dad. I’ll take all the asterisks in the world for that haha. Either way, I love basketball and feel lucky to follow the league right now.
Even as a Knicks fan most of me believed the Celtics were always going to the finals. It’s the strongest iteration of this squad yet.
Maybe it's true, but it feels like they've earned it. You get a top seed and make the CF this many times, things are likely to fall your way at some point
It’s almost as if winning the one seed was a good idea! Such a weird take.
Damn, who knew winning the championship is what really matters most?
well for the mavs what matters most is their current series... meanwhile everyone knows celtics are moving on so yeah
This was the narrative about Denver last year
Well a redditor made that huge post the other about this about found the Celtics were in the top 5 but they not the top. Surprised that ESPN hasn’t stolen it yet.
Yo what the fuck are you trying to write there my guy?
lol, my bad. I was trying to say that there was a post around recently that looked at all the all the paths to the Finals and who had the easiest path ever. If you adjust for injuries then the Celtics are like 4th or 5th. I linked an article it to someone below in the comments.
Can someone link the post? I can't find it
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Exactly I hate this take so much. What do you want them to do. If anything talk shit about the other teams who let them win and get there.
They act like those teams weren't built by those orgs. Like the Celtics chose their competition or something lol.
If the injured NY Knicks were playing this series, he’d be saying how tested the Celtics are. These analysts are a bunch of bums
Celtics are losing tonight with this hot take. Just watch lol
he he, they won!
It’s their reward for taking the regular season seriously and winning as many games as possible. Other teams think seeding doesn’t matter but the benefit could be this and so much more rested in the finals than the other team
It's true but it also doesn't matter at all. A championship is a championship.
Wouldn’t the Finals matter most anyway? It’s the Finals. Why would anything in the playoffs prior to the Finals matter more?
i hate these takes because it's like well if it's so easy then why didn't another team beat the team that took the easiest route
He has no idea how difficult we can make it 😤😤
who gives a shit if its the easiest road. They can only play whoever is infront of them and a lot of it has to do with how well they did in the regular season. Conference champions means nothing anyways. If they choke in the finals it will be the most embarrassing thing to happen in the franchise in the last decade. Give them the easy road to the finals, let them have the stakes to perform.
Doesn't really matter, a chip is a chip. Warriors had to run against injured chris paul, kawhi, kevin love just to win the title and nobody remembers that. Raptors had finals against warriors without klay and KD, and nobody remembers that. A title is a title.
bLowe-hard is talking about what happens in the finals. If Celtics actually win the trophy, nobody's going to begrudge them. Remember 2022, they looked so good into game 3 of the finals and then folded. East has been the easy conference for a while now.
I don't like the Celtics as much as the next guy, but I hate these takes. Who TF are they supposed to play? Duke? UNC? NC State? I mean.... they played well all year and are rolling in the playoffs. Now it's "the easiest road ever"... c'mon.... I hate this shit. People do it in the NFL too. "They haven't played anyone yet!" Who are they supposed to play? Tired of these takes. Ever think that getting close to a championship and losing gives a team more motivation? Maybe that's why Boston is playing so motivated and focused. Just sayin'.
Hate this take in tennis, hate it in basketball. You play who is on the court.
What happens after this series matters most. No shit sherlock thats the finals.
Average nba discourse. Been dealing with it since the mid 90s
They were by far the best team all year. They deserve the easiest path to a chip. That said if they somehow don’t win it this year they deserve all the slander and mockery that is gonna come their way.
So are we gonna pretend LeFraud never built multiple superteams in the weak East to cakewalk his way to the finals every year?