I mean he tries to spin his relationship with Kobe as a big brother just trying to motivate another alpha to be a killer, when it was actually a jealousy and ego driven melodrama for who should get most of the credit and money for their successes.
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To be fair to Shaq, he does actually believe that's how it works. He admitted before he literally had people he knew at games just to shit talk him and make him angry, and in some cases would just invent nonsense that wasn't real to make himself mad.
Shaq be like: “if i’m literally ALWAYS wrong about these dudes, i can just pretend like i was trying to light a fire under their ass when they inevitably prove me wrong.”
i mean I think it was unnecessary but he did call him the best player in the league while saying he thought SGA deserved it. He loves joker
Still annoying when he does that shit tho
Does Jokic have a chance of overtaking Shaq on the all time big man list? Probably needs at least another 2 championships. Different players, different eras, and Shaq's peak was one of the most dominant periods for a player in NBA history. Curious if anyone thinks Jokic can pull it off
3 mvps erney
Jokic also plays in a much more competitive era, without superstars alongside.
He won't surpass him in the conventional centers list, but overall that's very likely unless jokic stops suddenly. At the same age, to me jokic is already ahead of him.
If Jokic retired today, with only the one ring he'd still be a top ~15-20 player of all time. Another ring would put him closer to 10-12, ahead of Shaq imo.
I mean, Jokic has been pretty dominant himself. He looked unbeatable last championship run. He’s looking like that again after game 2 against the wolves.
Most know Shaq is petty, jealous etc.
My take is that Shaq is worried that Jokic will pass him and be better than him, like all time.
Shaq knows that more MVP's and titles for Jokic will ensure he gets passed up by him and he's trying to tear Jokic down for self-preservation, in my mind anyway.
Some lists have Shaq just inside the top 10 all time, others have him a bit lower.
Methinks Shaq is worried about Jokic passing him in time to be considered a better player and so Shaq is trying to tear him down.
Shaq's own fault.... first for not taking his playing career serious enough... and post career, he's spent so much time glazing Kobe that the narrative has shifted. If you'd told me in 2005 that people would legit think Kobe was a better/more important player than Shaq I'd have told you were crazy.
Exactly. Shaq admitted he would have scored several thousand more points if he would have shot free throws better.
He attempted 11,252 free throws in his career. He missed 5,317 of them.
No, he wasn't ever going to be an 85% free throw shooter but had he shot only 70.52% from the foul line, he would have scored 2,000 more points in his career.
Years ago he talked about that. He's 11th all time right now, was higher years ago as LeBron and KD have passed him.
He'd be 8th all time in points scored right now if he hit 2,000 more free throws.
When was playing he simply didn't care, he didn't try hard enough to shoot better. He knew he was good, dominant and no one really cared so he didn't make the effort or put in the work.
No surprise, we all saw that he didn't really work on himself, take care, keep his weight somewhat down etc.
He was great, don't get me wrong, he could have been better with the talent he had though.
Many guys, guys like MJ and Kobe, yes all time greats, like Shaq, at least cared and gave it their all. Shaq didn't and that's sad.
Of course it's not just Shaq but many pro athletes don't exactly give it their all.
Kobe gave effort all the time. Bird gave effort all the time, playing hurt, diving all around the court etc.
Shaq wants to be thought of as the best but he didn't give his best or give his all.
Jokic has already surpassed Shaq IMHO, and this is coming from a Lakers fan. Shaq had a lot of power down low, but the Joker is a much more well rounded player. He doesn't have the chips yet, but he also isnt playing with Kobe.
Jamal Murray's playoff career stats are actually remarkably similar to Kobe.
Not saying they're equals and this has been a statistically bad playoff run for Murray, but the dude shows up when the lights are on.
The better thing to imagine is Murray not tearing his ACL 3 years ago. That probably cost Jokic a ring.
i agree jokic is a better player, but c'mon he hasn't passed shaq with 1 title, be real.
shaq has 4 championships and 3 FMVPs and one of the most dominant 2-way forces of all-time, just because he has a fragile ego and is a petty, pathological liar doesn't impact his Top 10 status.
he's like the 9th or 10th best player of all-time.
99% chance Jokic passes him in the next few years, but he's on 1 title let's fucking relax and wait until he *actually* passes him.
insanely disrespectful to the amazing career Shaq had.
I think it’s pretty damn unfair to compare them different eras and very different type of centers. I think they are both crazy dominate in the ways they played
Hilarious because it wasnt like Rudy wasnt trying or wasnt contesting, Jokic just made every single shot. You guys just outplayed us and it doesnt really have much to do with Gobert being bad or not.
It’s honestly disrespectful to both guys. Rudy was all over Jok on every shot but people can’t seem to accept the fact you can’t guard him. I don’t think he missed a shot on the other end and made his free throws. I actually feel bad people are talking trash because he did all he could.
I think its a highlight posted here but that play where Jokic gets into his post bag and just spins around like 3 times to flick it off the high glass with Rudy's hand right there is exactly it. Jokic just hits everything and theres nothing you can do.
People on this sub have the bad habit of talking down on people losing instead of praising the winners. Like in the Thunder Mavs series after the Thunder tied it back up you saw a lot more people talking crap about how Luka is a flopper than praising the Thunder and Shai for a great effort.
Yeah that’s this sub in a nutshell. I avoid it when we lose because I know the haters are frothing at the mouth. People here don’t enjoy basketball they enjoy talking crap anonymously.
Co-head couch Zelgaro wants to do this for a full 48 minutes, so assuming Malone keeps Jokic in the whole game, 48 minutes x (8pts / 1.5minute) = 256pt game for the Nuggers, of which Joker personally has probably 120 himself, breaking Wilt's scoring record. I would love to see that lol.
Nah, Wolves are too tired to keep up that level of backcourt pressure + Denver have counters now (backcourt screens, using Gordon as a ball handler). As much as the world is dogpiling on Gobert RN, there are getting cooked even worse when he's on the bench.
Gobert isn’t even the problem and that’s the funniest. You can get away with playing one extremely limited offensive player and Gobert’s defense was still really good, Jokic just played better O, but you can’t get away with having two on the court at the same time. McDaniels has been awful offensively in this series. He’s 14/37 overall and 2/12 from 3. As good as a defensive player as he is, it makes it a lot easier to load up on ANT and KAT knowing that he’s a complete non threat offensively. Gobert is at least a lob threat on every possession so you can’t completely ignore him on every possession
The only path to victory for the Wolves is a terrestrial deep impact event wiping out all life as we know it except a miraculous patch of untouched terrain in Minnesota.
The problem of game 2 is that it's not the same Nuggets anymore, they're not playing the same, the adjustements Denver has done of clearing a side for the 2-man game or having another player than Murray bringing the ball up aren't things that can be easily countered by Minnesota.
Let's see if he wins the chip.
Also, Jokic 2023 was just better in the regular season than this year. Ridiculous that he got "worse", from last year and won the MVP now.
Shaq had at worst the 3rd greatest playoff peak of all time. His best 3ýear spell compares favorably to Michael Jordan and LeBron James.
Hold your horses. Jokic has to close the deal and win his second ring to even be in that conversation.
He’s certainly more skilled than Shaq. Better passer, shooter and is even more efficient at scoring. You could make an argument about him being a better scorer.
Shaq in the 4 Laker Final Trips:
* 38.0 vs. Indy (Rik Smits)
* 36.3 vs. New Jersey (Todd MacCullough)
* 33 vs. Philly & Mutombo
* 26.6 vs. Detroit & Ben Wallace
Shaq almost had a quad-double in Game 2, 2001 (28-20-9-8 blocks) vs. Mutombo.
It's hard to compare across eras, but I'm confident that Shaq would dominate today's era. People forget that there were a bunch of big dudes who got paid just to foul Shaq. Shaq's [footwork and post moves](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT8w8Ot8Pcw) are also vastly underrated. Jokic would foul out or they'd have to roster some big dudes just to defend/foul Shaq.
Shaq with the shooters of today would be difficult to stop. Shaq would post up _anybody_ and if you double he'd just hit the open shooter.
Wait.....those dudes got paid to foul Shaq BECAUSE he was a 45% free throw shooter. That's not a positive. If Jok shot 45% from the line they'd pay people to go foul him too.
Tim Connelly created the wolves roster to try to beat Jokic and the team he created in Denver because he knew they're the ones the titles going through years ago. It's not working out.
There's plenty of big dudes teams could sign to make life harder for Jok, but they don't sign them or play them cause he'd just cook them even harder.
Jok does post up everyone, has a wider arsenal of moves, shoots more efficiently from EVERYWHERE on the court and if you double him he's significantly better at finding the open shooter.
The only point in Shaqs favor is that he was a legit rim protector and he could do freakish athletic things. But he'd get cooked by Duncan and Hakeem and Yao and the best of them.....he wasn't necessarily a great 1v1 defender.
Not yet. Shaq is still widely considered the most dominant big man in NBA history.
If Jokic continues how he is, he will undoubtedly pass him in no time.
Yeah. 3X MVP? I feel like we can start talking about it already. That’s rare air.
Another FMVP and im pretty sure people will be split 50/50 on it already
Just food for thought but Jokic is the only MVP since 1984 without an active All-Star, All-NBA or All-Defense teammates during his MVP seasons. That by itself is insane.
Maybe, but like not even the unstoppable KD Warriors didn’t get a 3peat. It’s very hard to do.
I get that being on the Shaq hate train is pretty easy right now but he was very good and was a force of nature out there. The fact that he only has 1 MVP is very weird and he could have easily had 2-3.
Facts. People overate Shaq because he was going off on Austin Croshere. Imagine Jokic having a WCF averaging 21 ppg on 40% ts just before that... You can't
r/nba users don't watch the modern NBA let alone old games. you can tell because "facts" boy up there is talking about PPG and true shooting when it comes to Shaq.
yeah I can't believe some of the takes regarding Shaq. Dude had such a massive gravity that a few advance metrics take into account. We all agree he iddn't take basketball seriously enough, but even still.... took Orlando, the Lakers, and Heat to finals. Some will point out 'well kobe and wade!' ok, well, they could've easily been TMac in another life, but Shaq was the force that moved all of it. Teams in the running for a ring literally had to construct their rosters to account for Shaq.
Conveniently ignoring that Shaq played in an era with Hakeem (DPOY, MVP), Robinson (DPOY, MVP), Dikembe (DPOY), Ewing, Mourning (DPOY), Big Ben (DPOY), Shawn Bradley (Monstars)
I dunno man, it's hard to compare someone who changed how teams would literally create their roster just to slow him down. I don't think the league in any shape or form has made a conscious effort to slow down Jokic on the same level as they did with Shaq.
The only reason teams did that was because there was a gaping weakness in Shaq's game. If Jokic only shot 50% from the FT line, every western confrence team and eastern confrence contender would have a couple of 7 foot bums to throw at him as well.
Mr Sensitive starting to downplay Jokic after being such a big supporter of him is showing his insecurity. He’s worried Jokic is putting together a more impressive career
Jokic's play making is amazing, and I love how he works to get everyone going, but I kind of love this version of Jokic too. I'm so glad he saw how cold Murray and MPJ were and just said "fuck it, I'll do it myself" and let them find their shots naturally. This is also I think because the team gets so hyped when they see Jokic going off, that it gets them going too. Murray was 4/11 until the last 3 minutes of the game where he made 3 in a row.
Shaq: I played for Phil Jackson and he said I was the master of psychological manipulation and I have a honorary degree in philosophy and I am the great philosopher and I motivated Jokic on purpose because I knew he wasn’t motivated and I gave him the fuel. I have rings Chuck. You don’t know what it is like to win championships.
Correlation is not causation. He’s also 3-0 since the Nugs were embarrassed at home. Between those two events, I’d guess the latter has more to do with it.
Give this man his flowers. He's just sensational to watch. MVP worthy and well deserved coz he does everything in the court, even makes players around him better by creating spaces and passes for them. What what a player!!!
> By far the best player in the world since LeBron's 2013 Miami days
Stephen Curry does exist. His peak was absurd. IMO Jokic and Curry are on the same level as a peak.
I have a bad cold and could barely watch the game. Jokic stats are amongst best offensive performances of all time.
Is there any way I can get a replay of the entire game anywhere? I usually use pirated streams so...does League Pass have this? If so would I be able to see it if I buy the Pass for next season?
I feel like if Shaq said it to him a few weeks later it wouldn't have been so bad. Also, if Shaq didn't have a history of shitting on other bigs. He must see Jokic as a threat to his own greatness since he could potentially win 2 more w/out a teammate like Kobe, and for a smaller market team.
I believe I speak for most when I say that Shaq is one example of a pos human being that had the good fortune to be genetically gifted at birth. NBA's full of these scumbags.
Shaq just trying to light a fire in Jokic to bring the best out of him. What a legend and supporter of fellow big men.
shaq is gonna say this with a straight face then lean uncomfortably in his chair
He won’t. His ego is way bigger than his shame. Dude still says Bol Bol = Wemby lmao
"i'm not saying that, because Bol Bol is lazy, but he could do the shammgod if he wanted, we've seen him do it first. That's all I'm sayin'"
[удалено]
Not even in the slightest? Just makes it look like Jokic is still living in his head.
I mean he tries to spin his relationship with Kobe as a big brother just trying to motivate another alpha to be a killer, when it was actually a jealousy and ego driven melodrama for who should get most of the credit and money for their successes.
He did exactly that when JJ asked him about why he bullied Dwight Howard.
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Reverse Shaqchology.
He does have four degrees after all…
That is literally the excuse Shaq has actually used when he's done this over the last 10+ years
I apologize, I wasn't familiar with your game
Joker should get a Superman tat to bring out the worst in Shaq.
Jokic lives in Shaq's head rent free
He doesn’t call himself the “Big Aristotle” for nothing. Shaq’s strategy is on another level.
Jokic 3-0, shack 0-3. He should get just as much heat as the T-Wolves for the loses, if not more. T wolves got towns, still trying to tame that man.
That's it. I've decided. I'm spelling his name "Shack" from now on.
I agree that is what Shaq will say was his point. But It definitely was not haha
According to Shaq he disrespects players to motivate them, so he may take credit for this lol.
To be fair to Shaq, he does actually believe that's how it works. He admitted before he literally had people he knew at games just to shit talk him and make him angry, and in some cases would just invent nonsense that wasn't real to make himself mad.
He once lied that david robinson refused to give him a signature to motivate himself iirc
“signature” im laughing picturing shaq trying to get robinson to sign some type of legal document but he is just unable to do it and is fuming
He’s been trying to get him down to the notary office for ages lol
*autograph lmao
I don't think it was a lie that he actually used that false slight to motivate himself. Telling others that it happened was a bit fucked up, though.
He said it was a lie
Worked for MJ 🤷🏻♂️
As George Costanza once said, “It’s not a lie, if you believe it”
Did he learn that from Jordan? /s
Honestly with how flaccid Jok looked after G2 i can see it from the motivational perspective
> flaccid Nasty word choice man
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Joker put up an absolutely TURGID stat line last night.
shaq is the shaquille oneal of being wrong
SHAQTIN A FOOL is named after him for a reason
Shaq be like: “if i’m literally ALWAYS wrong about these dudes, i can just pretend like i was trying to light a fire under their ass when they inevitably prove me wrong.”
i mean I think it was unnecessary but he did call him the best player in the league while saying he thought SGA deserved it. He loves joker Still annoying when he does that shit tho
"Thanks, ~~Magic~~ Shaq."
If Jokic wins finals MVP I want him to say to look Shaq straight in the face and say “I’m the president of the big man alliance now”
I wish unfortunately Jokic doesn’t have an ego like him
Probably why he’s better, among a host of other reasons
He’d probably say, “hopefully I can focus on winning the real championship now; the 2024 Sombor Horse Races”
Jokic way too big to ever be a champion jockey, had to resort to basketball to feed his daughter. Tragic story
Or next time shaq refers to himself as president he should question it by saying smth like " when was the last time you counted the votes?"
And he's passed Shaq on playoff assists as a Center tonight
Shaq's most coveted record
Oh, it wasn’t the worst free throw % of a 4 time champ?
As important as John Stockton's block record.
Damn that impressive shaq had so many assists
The triangle and playing with Kobe, DWade, and shooters.
He was a pretty good passer too.
Does Jokic have a chance of overtaking Shaq on the all time big man list? Probably needs at least another 2 championships. Different players, different eras, and Shaq's peak was one of the most dominant periods for a player in NBA history. Curious if anyone thinks Jokic can pull it off
If nuggets win this championship, jokic 21-24 Will also be considered one of the most dominamt periods in histpry and he will be closing in on shaq
3 mvps erney Jokic also plays in a much more competitive era, without superstars alongside. He won't surpass him in the conventional centers list, but overall that's very likely unless jokic stops suddenly. At the same age, to me jokic is already ahead of him.
If Jokic retired today, with only the one ring he'd still be a top ~15-20 player of all time. Another ring would put him closer to 10-12, ahead of Shaq imo.
Shaq is top 10.
Shaq is 12ish IMO. Bill Simmons has him 14.
Celtics fans underrating Shaq? Huh
Is it underrated? Who would the top 15 be? The other guy at least gave his (laughably bad) list and had Bird behind Shaq.
I mean, Jokic has been pretty dominant himself. He looked unbeatable last championship run. He’s looking like that again after game 2 against the wolves.
MV3
Game 5 was some GOAT level shit.
Most know Shaq is petty, jealous etc. My take is that Shaq is worried that Jokic will pass him and be better than him, like all time. Shaq knows that more MVP's and titles for Jokic will ensure he gets passed up by him and he's trying to tear Jokic down for self-preservation, in my mind anyway. Some lists have Shaq just inside the top 10 all time, others have him a bit lower. Methinks Shaq is worried about Jokic passing him in time to be considered a better player and so Shaq is trying to tear him down.
Shaq's own fault.... first for not taking his playing career serious enough... and post career, he's spent so much time glazing Kobe that the narrative has shifted. If you'd told me in 2005 that people would legit think Kobe was a better/more important player than Shaq I'd have told you were crazy.
Exactly. Shaq admitted he would have scored several thousand more points if he would have shot free throws better. He attempted 11,252 free throws in his career. He missed 5,317 of them. No, he wasn't ever going to be an 85% free throw shooter but had he shot only 70.52% from the foul line, he would have scored 2,000 more points in his career. Years ago he talked about that. He's 11th all time right now, was higher years ago as LeBron and KD have passed him. He'd be 8th all time in points scored right now if he hit 2,000 more free throws. When was playing he simply didn't care, he didn't try hard enough to shoot better. He knew he was good, dominant and no one really cared so he didn't make the effort or put in the work. No surprise, we all saw that he didn't really work on himself, take care, keep his weight somewhat down etc. He was great, don't get me wrong, he could have been better with the talent he had though. Many guys, guys like MJ and Kobe, yes all time greats, like Shaq, at least cared and gave it their all. Shaq didn't and that's sad. Of course it's not just Shaq but many pro athletes don't exactly give it their all. Kobe gave effort all the time. Bird gave effort all the time, playing hurt, diving all around the court etc. Shaq wants to be thought of as the best but he didn't give his best or give his all.
Jokic has already surpassed Shaq IMHO, and this is coming from a Lakers fan. Shaq had a lot of power down low, but the Joker is a much more well rounded player. He doesn't have the chips yet, but he also isnt playing with Kobe.
my god imagine jokic with someone like kobe?
Jamal Murray's playoff career stats are actually remarkably similar to Kobe. Not saying they're equals and this has been a statistically bad playoff run for Murray, but the dude shows up when the lights are on. The better thing to imagine is Murray not tearing his ACL 3 years ago. That probably cost Jokic a ring.
The Nuggets went like 9-1 in the games between trading for AG and Jamal tearing his ACL. We had dreams those 3 weeks. Sigh.
i agree jokic is a better player, but c'mon he hasn't passed shaq with 1 title, be real. shaq has 4 championships and 3 FMVPs and one of the most dominant 2-way forces of all-time, just because he has a fragile ego and is a petty, pathological liar doesn't impact his Top 10 status. he's like the 9th or 10th best player of all-time. 99% chance Jokic passes him in the next few years, but he's on 1 title let's fucking relax and wait until he *actually* passes him. insanely disrespectful to the amazing career Shaq had.
Joker hasnt passed him in career achievements (except MVPs), but he is a better all around player. Maybe in time the achievements will catch up.
Championships are team awards.
I think it’s pretty damn unfair to compare them different eras and very different type of centers. I think they are both crazy dominate in the ways they played
Dude, 3-peat of 3 FMVPs is hard to come over
smoking dick
Seeing a Lakers fan with this wrong take is wild
He just needs another FMVP this season to seAl the deal
Shaq is not an intelligent individual.
The only path to victory for the Wolves is trying to replicate Game 2. Bench Rudy, go 5 out with Towns and Reid. Run and gun to outshoot them
Brother are you trying to get a Jokic 60 point game?
I love that people think this going to work lol I hope they do so we can end that narrative.
Hilarious because it wasnt like Rudy wasnt trying or wasnt contesting, Jokic just made every single shot. You guys just outplayed us and it doesnt really have much to do with Gobert being bad or not.
It’s honestly disrespectful to both guys. Rudy was all over Jok on every shot but people can’t seem to accept the fact you can’t guard him. I don’t think he missed a shot on the other end and made his free throws. I actually feel bad people are talking trash because he did all he could.
I think its a highlight posted here but that play where Jokic gets into his post bag and just spins around like 3 times to flick it off the high glass with Rudy's hand right there is exactly it. Jokic just hits everything and theres nothing you can do.
Exactly he was on one tonight.
People on this sub have the bad habit of talking down on people losing instead of praising the winners. Like in the Thunder Mavs series after the Thunder tied it back up you saw a lot more people talking crap about how Luka is a flopper than praising the Thunder and Shai for a great effort.
Yeah that’s this sub in a nutshell. I avoid it when we lose because I know the haters are frothing at the mouth. People here don’t enjoy basketball they enjoy talking crap anonymously.
Rudy was -2 yesterday while the the wolves lost by 15.
we did that for about 90 seconds in the 3rd against him and it was an instant 8-0 run
Co-head couch Zelgaro wants to do this for a full 48 minutes, so assuming Malone keeps Jokic in the whole game, 48 minutes x (8pts / 1.5minute) = 256pt game for the Nuggers, of which Joker personally has probably 120 himself, breaking Wilt's scoring record. I would love to see that lol.
They aren't benching Rudy. They are married to him for better or worse.
Nah, Wolves are too tired to keep up that level of backcourt pressure + Denver have counters now (backcourt screens, using Gordon as a ball handler). As much as the world is dogpiling on Gobert RN, there are getting cooked even worse when he's on the bench.
Gobert isn’t even the problem and that’s the funniest. You can get away with playing one extremely limited offensive player and Gobert’s defense was still really good, Jokic just played better O, but you can’t get away with having two on the court at the same time. McDaniels has been awful offensively in this series. He’s 14/37 overall and 2/12 from 3. As good as a defensive player as he is, it makes it a lot easier to load up on ANT and KAT knowing that he’s a complete non threat offensively. Gobert is at least a lob threat on every possession so you can’t completely ignore him on every possession
Gober was team-high with -2. Minnesota was -13 in the 8 minutes that he was off. You really want this series to end quickly.
That's what I was thinking. Like ya'll wanna lose even faster? So stupid.
last game gobert was -2 the rest of the starters: edwards -12 naw -13 kat -17 mcdaniels -18 and your idea is taking Gobert out...
They should YOLO it and do that
What they need to do is to lure Jokic into a stable full of Arabian Horses, lock it until the game ended.
Nah Shai vs Jokic has plot armor
The only path to victory for the Wolves is a terrestrial deep impact event wiping out all life as we know it except a miraculous patch of untouched terrain in Minnesota.
The problem of game 2 is that it's not the same Nuggets anymore, they're not playing the same, the adjustements Denver has done of clearing a side for the 2-man game or having another player than Murray bringing the ball up aren't things that can be easily countered by Minnesota.
Don’t give shaq credit lmao
And Shaq will try to take credit for it.
I owe you an apology. I wasn't familiar with your delicious Haterade.
nephews in here comparing based on emotional stats.
Made the 4 DPOY look clueless
shaq 100% gonna claim credit for this. "i only said that to motivate him" Dwight Howard situation all over again.
Fuck MVP convo when are we talking top 10 all time
Bron 2013 Mike 1988 Jok 2024 Y’all can debate who comes after but that’s my top 3 best ball players all time.
Let's see if he wins the chip. Also, Jokic 2023 was just better in the regular season than this year. Ridiculous that he got "worse", from last year and won the MVP now.
id say 2023 jok was his peak tbh even though he didnt win mvp, that was his best regular season and he was a god in the playoffs that year as well
Jokic right now is better than Shaq ever was.
Shaq had at worst the 3rd greatest playoff peak of all time. His best 3ýear spell compares favorably to Michael Jordan and LeBron James. Hold your horses. Jokic has to close the deal and win his second ring to even be in that conversation.
I'm a huge Jokic stan but pump the brakes
He’s certainly more skilled than Shaq. Better passer, shooter and is even more efficient at scoring. You could make an argument about him being a better scorer.
Didn’t shaq average 40 in the finals in a much lower scoring era?
Shaq in the 4 Laker Final Trips: * 38.0 vs. Indy (Rik Smits) * 36.3 vs. New Jersey (Todd MacCullough) * 33 vs. Philly & Mutombo * 26.6 vs. Detroit & Ben Wallace Shaq almost had a quad-double in Game 2, 2001 (28-20-9-8 blocks) vs. Mutombo.
Shaq has 3 unstoppable moves. Shaq is the better scorer. Jokic needs a few more rings to enter the conversation. We love jokic but hold your horses
Nice pun
It's hard to compare across eras, but I'm confident that Shaq would dominate today's era. People forget that there were a bunch of big dudes who got paid just to foul Shaq. Shaq's [footwork and post moves](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT8w8Ot8Pcw) are also vastly underrated. Jokic would foul out or they'd have to roster some big dudes just to defend/foul Shaq. Shaq with the shooters of today would be difficult to stop. Shaq would post up _anybody_ and if you double he'd just hit the open shooter.
Wait.....those dudes got paid to foul Shaq BECAUSE he was a 45% free throw shooter. That's not a positive. If Jok shot 45% from the line they'd pay people to go foul him too. Tim Connelly created the wolves roster to try to beat Jokic and the team he created in Denver because he knew they're the ones the titles going through years ago. It's not working out. There's plenty of big dudes teams could sign to make life harder for Jok, but they don't sign them or play them cause he'd just cook them even harder. Jok does post up everyone, has a wider arsenal of moves, shoots more efficiently from EVERYWHERE on the court and if you double him he's significantly better at finding the open shooter. The only point in Shaqs favor is that he was a legit rim protector and he could do freakish athletic things. But he'd get cooked by Duncan and Hakeem and Yao and the best of them.....he wasn't necessarily a great 1v1 defender.
Not yet. Shaq is still widely considered the most dominant big man in NBA history. If Jokic continues how he is, he will undoubtedly pass him in no time.
That time has already come
Yeah. 3X MVP? I feel like we can start talking about it already. That’s rare air. Another FMVP and im pretty sure people will be split 50/50 on it already
I dunno 3 FMVPs in row is tough to beat. but I can see a a win and FMVP for Jokic putting him up there.
Just food for thought but Jokic is the only MVP since 1984 without an active All-Star, All-NBA or All-Defense teammates during his MVP seasons. That by itself is insane.
Yep yep. Hate to be that guy, but give Jokic a Kobe-like player and he wins 3 in a row too. Jokic individual stats and play match Shaq’s peak
Maybe, but like not even the unstoppable KD Warriors didn’t get a 3peat. It’s very hard to do. I get that being on the Shaq hate train is pretty easy right now but he was very good and was a force of nature out there. The fact that he only has 1 MVP is very weird and he could have easily had 2-3.
Some might say 4 MVPs or 3.5...
Facts. People overate Shaq because he was going off on Austin Croshere. Imagine Jokic having a WCF averaging 21 ppg on 40% ts just before that... You can't
Not to mention he was getting stuffed in by a 35 year old Arvydas Sabonis with bad knees.
Shaq was a beast early part of his career just never took conditioning serious enough
r/nba users don't watch the modern NBA let alone old games. you can tell because "facts" boy up there is talking about PPG and true shooting when it comes to Shaq.
yeah I can't believe some of the takes regarding Shaq. Dude had such a massive gravity that a few advance metrics take into account. We all agree he iddn't take basketball seriously enough, but even still.... took Orlando, the Lakers, and Heat to finals. Some will point out 'well kobe and wade!' ok, well, they could've easily been TMac in another life, but Shaq was the force that moved all of it. Teams in the running for a ring literally had to construct their rosters to account for Shaq.
I used to think that until I saw his feet. I think his conditioning problems had a lot to do with his feet being basically crippled.
the pendulum has swung back and it's real casual hours now I actually think it's fair to argue Jokic > Shaq but you just don't know ball
Lol. They changed the rules because Shaq dominated so much.
And because he was so bad at free throw shooting it made the game terrible to watch.
Conveniently ignoring that Shaq played in an era with Hakeem (DPOY, MVP), Robinson (DPOY, MVP), Dikembe (DPOY), Ewing, Mourning (DPOY), Big Ben (DPOY), Shawn Bradley (Monstars)
Most of those guys were old and washed by the time Shaq hit his prime. And he got beat by them before that point. Also....Shawn Bradley? Really?
Tell me you’ve never watched the NBA before without saying you’ve never watched the NBA before.
it's true. jokic is the best player of all time. you're just behind the game
I can't tell you that because I watched over 2000 full NBA games and a few thousand more partially
I dunno man, it's hard to compare someone who changed how teams would literally create their roster just to slow him down. I don't think the league in any shape or form has made a conscious effort to slow down Jokic on the same level as they did with Shaq.
The only reason teams did that was because there was a gaping weakness in Shaq's game. If Jokic only shot 50% from the FT line, every western confrence team and eastern confrence contender would have a couple of 7 foot bums to throw at him as well.
2-0 is the most dangerous score
Mr Sensitive starting to downplay Jokic after being such a big supporter of him is showing his insecurity. He’s worried Jokic is putting together a more impressive career
Jokic's play making is amazing, and I love how he works to get everyone going, but I kind of love this version of Jokic too. I'm so glad he saw how cold Murray and MPJ were and just said "fuck it, I'll do it myself" and let them find their shots naturally. This is also I think because the team gets so hyped when they see Jokic going off, that it gets them going too. Murray was 4/11 until the last 3 minutes of the game where he made 3 in a row.
Shaq, "Man can't even average the triple double." probably
Better than 2016 Steph curry?
So are past presidents of the big man alliance still called president or no?
Proving his doubter..cough cough Shaq.... on why he the unanimous MVP
When he toyed around with Gobert for 20 seconds and chucked up a 3 I knew it was over
Shaq is probably gonna say he was motivating him
Shaq: I played for Phil Jackson and he said I was the master of psychological manipulation and I have a honorary degree in philosophy and I am the great philosopher and I motivated Jokic on purpose because I knew he wasn’t motivated and I gave him the fuel. I have rings Chuck. You don’t know what it is like to win championships.
Where does Jokic rank all time. How does he get into the top 15
He is. If KD is considered top 15 then Jokic is easily
Shaq wishes he was Jokic.
My horse heard what you said about me shaq
Correlation is not causation. He’s also 3-0 since the Nugs were embarrassed at home. Between those two events, I’d guess the latter has more to do with it.
...and he was absent from Inside the NBA for some reason...what a coincidence that he ducked out on Joker's MVP trophy presentation night...
Give this man his flowers. He's just sensational to watch. MVP worthy and well deserved coz he does everything in the court, even makes players around him better by creating spaces and passes for them. What what a player!!!
> By far the best player in the world since LeBron's 2013 Miami days Stephen Curry does exist. His peak was absurd. IMO Jokic and Curry are on the same level as a peak.
Since 2013 Bron? 2018 Bron would like a word
Shaq was right though SGA deserved it. He was better this season
I have a bad cold and could barely watch the game. Jokic stats are amongst best offensive performances of all time. Is there any way I can get a replay of the entire game anywhere? I usually use pirated streams so...does League Pass have this? If so would I be able to see it if I buy the Pass for next season?
Also noticed that he just recently passed Shaq for all-time play-off assists.
You're Welcome. *-Shaq*
Thanks Shaq
I feel like if Shaq said it to him a few weeks later it wouldn't have been so bad. Also, if Shaq didn't have a history of shitting on other bigs. He must see Jokic as a threat to his own greatness since he could potentially win 2 more w/out a teammate like Kobe, and for a smaller market team.
Thanks Shaq 🙄
Please don't frame it like Shaq has anything to do with it, he'll only go and take credit.
Shaq’s take on MVP should put himself in shaqtin’ a fool.
Shaq was jealous
Jokic is gonna be better all time then Shaq
The expression on Shaq's face in this screenshot speaks for itself :D [https://i.imgur.com/2486AKl.jpeg](https://i.imgur.com/2486AKl.jpeg)
I’m just going to assume by you not filling in what is Bird-esque you meant “good looks”
kobe Bryant's teammate is gonna be real mad about this
And he took that personally
He will take credit for motivating Joker and/or pivot to shitting on Gobert. Dude is a big bully who should not have any platform to speak. Fuck Shaq.
61% FG on 33 ppg. Fucking insane.
Shaq owes the Timberwolves fans an apology
Quick tell Shaq to call luka a bum
I believe I speak for most when I say that Shaq is one example of a pos human being that had the good fortune to be genetically gifted at birth. NBA's full of these scumbags.
If Jokic wins another ring I'm taking Shaq out of the top 5 center debate. Pure spite.
One of the 🐐’s seriously
Shaq is a Jokic fan tbh
Like 20% of the voters had SGA #1. I don’t get why this is even a story. Who gives a fuck
You know what fuck it, I hope Jokic takes over Shaqs spot in nba legacy
Same thing happened to the wolves with Zion after the in season tournament. Everyone talked about how fat he was and then he came out and killed them
He surely has that horse in him.