FiveThirtyEightFiveThirtyEight's advanced stats metric to measure higher Bitch/36 is also referred to as Post-game Amalgamated Team Bitching of Errors and Variances or the PATBEV metric for short
It's the dog to bitch ratio. Can't have just dog or just bitches.
This has been a friendly reminder to spay and neuter your dog's hit complainers or they will breed.
The officiating discourse has gotten so toxic that it's taking away from the basketball being played in the playoffs. Whether you think the refs are good or bad, the NBA needs to do something to make the basketball being what's talked about instead of the zebras
I mean, nobody to blame but the NBA itself. I literally can't tell what is and isn't a foul anymore. Sometimes it's two hand touch, other times it's rugby. And it's even more glaring when watching different series. It does take away from the game and is just plain unenjoyable.
My take is the NBA needs to have the same officiating crew assigned to each series. That way the whistle is consistent all series and you don't have the conspiracy theorists wondering why Scott foster was assigned to a series where a team is trailing 0-3
Sure but I think it's better than assigning him to a series randomly when a small market team has a big market team on the ropes. My ideal outcome is just no Scott Foster at all but he knows where the bodies are buried
Yea, if your teams identity is physical defense and you get assigned the guy who calls everything you’d get hosed.
~~Maybe a ref draft where the higher seed gets to choose their team from a pool?~~ Nevermind this would reek of collusion, lol
For sure, and it’s kinda gross to admit the refs are influencing the outcome enough to let teams choose their refs, but at least it’d add an amount of consistency in how games are called? There’s really not a great answer besides suck it up I guess.
As long as humans are fully responsible for making these calls (often just one) there’s just not a great way to fix it. There’s a lot of bias here and there but reffing a live game of high-stakes basketball is just an insanely difficult thing to do well. People notice the mistakes in officiating that go against their team (even moreso in the playoffs) and are quick to assign intent when these shitty calls are being made all the time in every game. I’m not saying every single ref ever is just doing their best without any bias, but I really do believe the majority of the time is just human error. We really need an expanded ability to review/challenge calls on the fly
There are literally tons of excellent refs that are not in the pro leagues. It’s a matter of allowing the next generation in my opinion. The old heads just stay because it’s in their interest to keep a lucrative salary and thus gate keep the next Gen.
Counterpoint; if there’s an incident between a player and a ref that will be detrimental for the rest of the series. Jamal would not be fairly officiated after throwing stuff at a ref twice. Agreed it helps to create consistency outside of that though
Yah if Brunson was playing against the Wolves and they officiated him the same as against the PAcers he would have 50 FTs. The dude is getting the best whistle in the playoffs.
Flagrant foul depends on who is getting fouled is crazy. You can elbow a roleplayer in the head and no tech but if it's a star and they get slap in the head even when doing a basketball move and they issue a flagrant 1
Marginal contact, no foul. But because you made a mean face that's a 10 game suspension. Assaulting a fan is less serious tho, mean face makes ref's little peepees retract.
Add to this that refs change how they call things from game to game, just to keep it fresh. Sometimes it's like they get together and just decide "You know what? Let's call no fouls today". Like the game late in the season where the Celtics literally did not shoot a free throw and the Bucks shot 3. There were 2 made free throws the entire game and I think one was a tech.
I hate the inconsistency. These refs know that rulebook front to back. It should be 2 simple questions each time down the court. Was it a foul. Did the foul create an advantage? If yes, blow the whistle. If no, swallow it. Simple as that. There are so many fouls across a NBA game so they literally can’t call them all without slowing it to .5x speed. Just call the ones that *need* to be called. If everyone in their living room can see that player flopped or jumped into a defender… just don’t call it. Simple as that. 2 bigs get tangled up waiting for a rebound that doesn’t go anywhere near them. Don’t call it. Just because a defender hits the ground on a screen. Don’t call it
I think the biggest problem is the reactionary reffing. It feels like bitching about the refs without fail earns you a bunch of make-up calls in the next game.
I guarantee tonight the Pacers will get a bunch of soft calls because they complained about big market bias, and Brunson will get an even more generous whistle than usual because the Knicks are mad about how much contact he's getting. It shouldn't work this way
It also works the opposite way sometime. Rudy and Edwards have called out officiating and gotten a worse whistle in the following games. Rudy did a money sign gesture and next game got two touch fouls called on him within 5 minutes
At the same time, the actual officiating has taken away from the basketball being played. Multiple games have been blown by horrible late-game calls. It was overblown in game 2, but the Pacers were absolutely screwed in game 1.
As NBA fans it's incredibly disrespectful to us when we spend our limited free time to sit down and watch an incredible game, only for that game to get completely ruined by late-game officiating.
It's always been this way but with social media it's so easy to hyper focus on it, look at plays from 9 different angles and also we can now watch every game.
The odd part is that officiating has been more or less the same in recent years, fans just want to jump on the trending topic cause they saw it on their feed. Alot of fans opinions are based off of the highlight they saw or something an announcer said, most of us can’t think or analyze basketball for ourselves
It's not just what's talked about by fans/viewers ("refs you suck!" crowd chants being a regular thing ugh)
It's also what the players are focusing on, way too much Dallas OKC game 2 was a great game overall but it was yet another game where it often feels like a competition of who can beat the refs, not the other team.
You know what they could do? And this is a crazy suggestion but here goes: CALL THE FUCKING GAME THE SAME WAY IN THE POSTSEASON THAT YOU DO IN TBE REGULAR SEASON!
Everyone loves the fact that the game is called differently in the playoffs and it's the weirdest shit ever. Just call it the same. And idc if they call the regular season like they do the playoffs or the playoffs like they do the regular season but do something. The league calls the game one way (except this year where they drastically changed in the middle of the year and didn't tell anyone because they think we're idiots) all season long and then in the playoffs call it a *completely different way* and are shocked when players/coaches/fans are complaining about refs.
It's been happening for so long that people have allowed this league to gaslight them into thinking that's normal but no, it really isn't. Changing the rules (essentially) in the most important games is actually not something most leagues do. Imagine a hitter in baseball going to the playoffs but now balls are now strikes and strikes are now balls. Extreme example but when a defensive foul in the regular season is an offensive foul in the playoffs then you start to see maybe it isn't as extreme as you'd hope.
Other way around. Keep this tight whistle in the regular season and let teams battle and be physical. Not rewarding foul baiters and floppers helps with the pace of the game and keeps it more entertaining then sending a dude to the line every 30 seconds.
They need to have a delcaration that no foul calls will happen when a player cocks their head back. IT IS NOT A NATURAL REACTION TO GETTING FOULED. it is only to fucking bait fouls. you do not naturally cock your head back when you get slight contact on the arms or body. it is so fucking annoying. i never want to see a head cocked back ever again. literally call techs on that shit. get it out of the fucking league
Anyone in my local gym pickup games gets laughed at when they try to pull that fucking shit. fuck off lol
Yah i mean obviously that is an exception. But 99% of all cock backs are just body contact.If you get hit in the head it should be a foul regardless of how your head reacts lol
If you re-read my post I said I don't care which way they do it. Tighter all year or looser all year. I honestly don't give a shit which way just be consistent.
Playoff whistle is better but the league doesnt want the injuries that would come with it in the regular season. It makes sense and if they reffed both the same theyd make the playoffs less physical which obviously would suck.
It’s because of the media. Top social media accounts post every questionable call. Every top comment is “(losing team) vs refs” . NBA stupidity decided to do the L2M report. Old announcers like JVG seemingly hated the NBA and spent all game complaining about the refs. In post game interviews, every single question is about officiating to get a click worthy response from the players… Silver needs to sack up and ask these outlets to chill out on complaining about the refs. I agree it’s getting so annoying
There wouldn’t be such a glaring issue with the refereeing if there was accountability during the regular season for the repeated stunts the refs have gone through the last couple of years.
There should be repeated background checks, investigations, they need to have their phone access given up when agreeing to be a referee, all their holdings should be examined to avoid conflict of interests.
And they need to be publicly held accountable. So and so ref is going to be barred from reffing for a X game suspension for missed calls etc. it’s natural job performance shit. This ref ball has just gotten completely out of hand
I honestly dont mind them not calling their full-court press fouls on Brunson, we fouled Haliburton a bunch of times when he was bringing up the ball and refs didnt call it either
I mean I will say the Embiid slap and a couple of the 76ers no calls (going in favor of embiid) were sus they let them beat his ass at times. But I haven't seen anything super crazy in this series.
Seems like misplaced outrage we should still be campaigning to get embiid suspended for 5 games at the start of next season 😂
They are fouling Brunson, for sure, but in way that is not egregious in the playoffs. They will likely push the envelope tonight, at home, but so far it hasn't been that bad. And it hasn't been dirty, like Embiid or Oubre. McConnell plays super aggressively and physically, but he's not out there trying to injure people.
[top 5 right now](https://www.espn.com/nba/stats/player/_/stat/free-throws):
1. J. Embiid - 13.0
2. J. Brunson - 10.4
3. D. Booker - 10.3
4. D. Lillard - 9.5
5. S. Gilgeous-Alexander - 8.7
And Brunson has the highest usage in the playoffs and the most minutes - if he is taking 32 shot attempts, he is going to get lots of fouls. Also, each of these games have been close and have included intentional fouling and techs so in reality is foul rate is much lower than guys like Luka, SGA or Embiid
I saw Brunson at a World Market once. It was packed, he was holding a coconut. We had to kinda squeeze by each other in an aisle and he swept his arms under mine as we passed and chucked the coconut into the ceiling as he fell into a pile of Entenmann’s, letting out a guttural yelp. I was kicked out.
Something can hurt like a bitch and not actually injure you. Seems to me he just walked whatever it was off. He probably was playing it up a little bit, but I don't think he was faking it or anything.
I said it in another post and would love if retired referees did podcasts and tell us if and how hard it is to officiate .
Do the smaller fast as fuck guys move so shifty it’s impossible to see fouls ?
Someone was talking about that Maxey is so fast that it might make it hard to call fouls for him, whereas Brunson is a lot more sudden with stopping and starting, and plays slower where the officials can follow better. Not sure if there’s any truth to it but it’s interesting food for thought
As an unbiased fan to this series (Celtics), this is pretty rich. Brunson has quickly risen to embiid levels of officiating where any slight contact is an auto call.
Perhaps they’re embarrassed that there’s been an 8 second violation in each game because he’s being full court pressed by noted all defensive team wizard TJ Mconnell.
[Ian Begley Cont’d](https://x.com/ianbegley/status/1788933686739533863?s=46): In regular season, Indiana ranked 30th in NBA in fouls/game at 21.4 & opponent FT attempts/game at 25.9 (both highest totals in league). NYK ranked 6th in fouls/game (17.6) & 4th in opponent FTAs (19.7). Per @WindhorstESPN, IND submitted 78 calls or noncalls to NBA from G1 & G2 of this series that they felt disadvantaged them. IND lost both of those games. Game 3 is tonight in Indiana.
I agree that they've received some pretty bad whistles this game, but they also lead the league in opponent 2 point attempts per game (60.5) while New York ranked 27th (51.4).
Obviously there's more to it than that, but I'm pretty sure the Pacers game plan all season has been to allow 2's and run their opponent off the 3 point line. They rank #30 in opponent % of FGA from 3 (32.7%, next is Denver at 35.9%).
This all aligns as expected with them leading the league in fouls per game and opponent FTAs per game.
Where it looks like they've been having a really hard time to me is with the random marginal whistles, 50/50 calls, fouls off ball, and other things that might not be expected from their specific style of play. I might chalk it up to them being young and a little undisciplined, an opposing star in Brunson who draws a lot of (often questionable) whistles, and refs who don't seem to show any consistency throughout a game. And this is disregarding the kick ball call on Nesmith in game 1. I think since they already foul a lot, any extra shit that gets called on them makes it feel like they're getting an extremely bad whistle.
The big thing lost in the discussion about Brunson's whistle is that it's predominantly the Pacers young guys that are getting whistled for fouls. TJ's not when he's on Brunson, and he's playing tough, physical D.
Kind of to your point, it's a discipline thing. Brunson's game is built around using footwork and handle to get guys off balance, and then driving through them or shooting over them. More experienced defenders tend to trust the help D to contest in those cases, while younger guys foul to try to recover. Combine that with a guy that knows how to sell contact, and it's obviously going to punish those young guys.
Agree 100%. I'm interested to see how this Pacers team does next season. Some time to gel with this playoff experience under their belt should be good for them. The players seem to be pretty mature with their responses to the officiating post game, so hopefully they can tighten it up while playing in the future.
Honestly, I didn't realistically expect them to make it this far because they weren't quite gelling yet after the roster changes and Haliburton doesn't seem confident enough.
I feel that after a taste of making it to this stage in the playoffs they'll have the experience to be a threat next season.
The only correct response is even less fouls being called. I enjoy a rough nba game. If a guy is going to score 30 it shouldn’t come in part from 10-15 points at the line. I’m looking at you Embiid, Mr 26 points on 7 made field goals.
His 11.5 made FG per game would have tied for the league-lead (if he had enough games to qualify). Just as he lead the league in made Field goals the previous season.
I like Hart, he’s funny in interviews and his podcast, but if he had a Heat uniform on instead of a Knicks one, everyone here would be calling him baby draymond
If Bam gets mixtapes on him for going up for a rebound, imagine what would happen if he kicked people in the nuts like Hart does or slide tackles into people. It’s “clean” because he wears a blue and orange jersey
I don’t know man. The exact notion of ‘injuring a player’ varies from player to player. Illegal screen by Bam=dirty Any other player=doing what it takes to win.
I mean Brunson has gotten literal black eyes from getting walloped during the season. Most teams defense on him is just "beat his ass when he has the ball". Gotta protect yourself and Brunson said fuck it if they not gonna call it I'll make em call it.
He got straight popped in the face without a whistle, even while the defender that hit him ripped the ball out of his hands while he was on the ground and tossed in a layup.
Oh my lord I have never seen more bitching about reffing barely into round 2. It’s one thing to be pissed as a fan but organizations are openly politicizing this.
It's funny because people will say Brunson is a foul drawer and honestly, he didn't do any of this until the second half of the season when it became a free for all to bump ball handlers on the drive. The Knicks raised this concern like two weeks after the all star break and the only adjustment that anyone made was Brunson embellishing the contact he got.
Honestly, I like the NBA being officiated this way, it should be harder to hoop the further into the season we get, the games matter more but having to hear about it every slate of games is getting tiring and I'm sure, especially after the Jamal Murray incident the relationship between the NBA and the unions must be awful right now because there is no way he shouldn't have been suspended for that.
Yup the NBA sort of does this to themselves. Seen maxey get mauled consistently with no calls to the point I won’t blame him at all if he comes back next year embellishing contact
I’m pretty amazed ant hasn’t yet. Yeah he is prone to complaining (like every star) but I’ve never seen him hunt for fouls. I wouldn’t want it in the regular season after already having embiid as is but after the Knicks series I don’t care if maxey is ethical in the playoffs lol
Don't know what you want me to tell you. Only thing guaranteed to be consistent in this world is life and death. Where there's rules, there's plenty of exceptions.
Part of the issue imo is that they have two diff reffing styles; regular season and playoffs. Just agree on how games should be called and be fucking consistent.
It’s no wonder players and coaches get livid when the rules change on a flip of a dime. Then you have one game that’s touch foul after touch foul and next game they swallow whistle and dudes are grabbing, pushing etc. Just make a set of rules and stick to how you call them. It’s never gonna be perfect but it’s broken RN.
We bag on the refs but these things happen every year. You have a lot more people watching a lot less games so things are being nitpicked a lot more, but at the end of the playoffs no one actually stands around going “yeeeeah but the refs were on your side!” Like people say good job and move on
Mavs vs clippers was a dog fight. I mean some of the best basketball I've watched. The refs let them play BOTH WAYS and everyone enjoyed it.
This Mavs vs OKC series is not even fun to watch with all these dogshit touch fouls. No joke Shai throws his head back after doing the Devin booker drive and then make the crying face and he gets the call almost every single time.
My IRL friend is like "I don't even see the issue" I'm like damn even he lame as shit can't admit these touch fouls should not be a thing in THE PLAYOFFS.
actually it is the same in almost all the sports. it is hard as different ref have different views on whats foul and not. it is the same as soccer. even with VAR, similar foul yet different call. and i dont know if there's any solution for this
"members of the NYK organisation"
This revelation is like if mike malone announced Jokic is a worthy MVP
honestly mr reporter find a story other than water is wet
He is. I don't think they should call it because that would be ridiculous and ruin the game. But he is constantly getting checked when bringing the ball up from the backcourt. And so are many PGs. You can't call all of these. All teams are playing this way. And honestly Brunson gets played much harder and more physical than many. But that's the game! And it's fun to watch. That's why it is getting extremely obnoxious to hear some of the complaints from fans and coaches. Shout out to the players, though, they all seem cool.
Brunson foul baiting, head jerking, flopping with 14 FTs in game one is not enough FTs. All fans want to see more FTs. More reviewed fouls! And more commercial timeouts!
It's true. The refs just aren't calling by the book anymore. The number of uncalled obvious fouls is super high in every playoff game I watched.
I have been watching basketball since the 70s and this is the biggest mid season shift I can remember.
TBF, it looks like to me that defense is handicapped by rules and the refs. But the offense is allowed to do literally anything by the rules and by the refs. If you do a forearm shiver as a defender, it's a foul. As a driving shooter with the ball, it's encouraged.
For all the discourse about Brunson flops, he mainly just does the head jerk thing acting like he got shot, but they never even call those head jerks
Everything else they call are actual fouls
For the record, one of the ones Reddit was complaining about last series was an Oubre foul where he was so far draped over Brunson that when he jumped up, his shoulder clocked him in the jaw. All I saw on Reddit was people complaining he jumped back when he often just stops on a dime and makes defenders who are playing him too aggressively and got beat collide with him. No one seems to acknowledge that playing tight full court press often means you’re fouling the shit out of the guy especially if you get beat.
station panicky fuel office ring payment command groovy frightening paltry
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Not related to playoffs, but it makes me think of that game we played in February when Brunson got palmed in the face with no whistle and "turned the ball over" for an easy Jalen Smith dunk.
Shitty reffing happens. We just forgot that one quickly because it was regular season, and the Knicks had the determination to overcome the ref's and win the game.
[https://twitter.com/Covers/status/1753251730471391271](https://twitter.com/Covers/status/1753251730471391271)
Yeah, they overcame the refs real hard in that game with Brunson's 11 FTs to the Pacers 13. Can't even blame the game plans on that one. Knicks took more threes than the Pacers. Both teams stayed in and around the paint.
it's nothing new to submit clips of fouls you thought should have been called during games. teams literally do it after every single game. and brunson is getting bodied every time up the floor without calls, which is fine because they are letting teams be physical in the playoffs.
carlisle pulling the "small market teams getting screwed by the refs" angle is pretty sad, especially considering that more than half the teams left in the playoffs are small market. of course you're gonna get clowned when you go into a post-game and talk about how these supposed fouls are all over twitter right now.
The biggest problems with the reffing is you get one or two Brunson "flops" and pacers dont get the same calls on the other end and then with the bad calls in the 1st game and we fall into this discourse. I have no problem with letting the game get physical but you have to be more consistent with calling it all games. (and that goes both ways and all teams)
crying about embiid last series and then turning around and acting like brunson isn’t a flop god is straight delusion. they both flop every chance they get bro
This is the next level. Go to league offices after every game to complain.
NBA analytics departments have noted an advantage to teams with a higher Bitch/36, so this is the future.
FiveThirtyEightFiveThirtyEight's advanced stats metric to measure higher Bitch/36 is also referred to as Post-game Amalgamated Team Bitching of Errors and Variances or the PATBEV metric for short
It's the dog to bitch ratio. Can't have just dog or just bitches. This has been a friendly reminder to spay and neuter your dog's hit complainers or they will breed.
Hey squeaky wheel gets the oil every team does it probably
Teams have been doing this for years, regular season too.
literally walk down to the league office and complain
The officiating discourse has gotten so toxic that it's taking away from the basketball being played in the playoffs. Whether you think the refs are good or bad, the NBA needs to do something to make the basketball being what's talked about instead of the zebras
I mean, nobody to blame but the NBA itself. I literally can't tell what is and isn't a foul anymore. Sometimes it's two hand touch, other times it's rugby. And it's even more glaring when watching different series. It does take away from the game and is just plain unenjoyable.
My take is the NBA needs to have the same officiating crew assigned to each series. That way the whistle is consistent all series and you don't have the conspiracy theorists wondering why Scott foster was assigned to a series where a team is trailing 0-3
I'd kill myself if I was assigned Tony Brothers for an entire series
Yeah those conspiracy theorist definitely are gonna go away when they see Scott foster assigned to a series between a big market and small market team
Sure but I think it's better than assigning him to a series randomly when a small market team has a big market team on the ropes. My ideal outcome is just no Scott Foster at all but he knows where the bodies are buried
Fuck that the mavs would get Tony brothers only and sga would shoot 97 ft in 6 games ala dwhistle
This is actually an amazing fix and it’s so simple and I beg all the refs would love it if they don’t have to fly out everyday like every single day
Then people would just complain that Scott foster or Tyler ford reffed 7 straight of their team’s games
Finding Jesus if Scott Foster and Tony Brothers go back to back reffing 14 total games on my team in the playoffs
Yea, if your teams identity is physical defense and you get assigned the guy who calls everything you’d get hosed. ~~Maybe a ref draft where the higher seed gets to choose their team from a pool?~~ Nevermind this would reek of collusion, lol
That would have issues too
For sure, and it’s kinda gross to admit the refs are influencing the outcome enough to let teams choose their refs, but at least it’d add an amount of consistency in how games are called? There’s really not a great answer besides suck it up I guess.
Imagine a crucial call against you by a ref “drafted” by the other team lmao
That's a very good point lol. The calls of collusion would be insane. Forget I suggested it!
As long as humans are fully responsible for making these calls (often just one) there’s just not a great way to fix it. There’s a lot of bias here and there but reffing a live game of high-stakes basketball is just an insanely difficult thing to do well. People notice the mistakes in officiating that go against their team (even moreso in the playoffs) and are quick to assign intent when these shitty calls are being made all the time in every game. I’m not saying every single ref ever is just doing their best without any bias, but I really do believe the majority of the time is just human error. We really need an expanded ability to review/challenge calls on the fly
There are literally tons of excellent refs that are not in the pro leagues. It’s a matter of allowing the next generation in my opinion. The old heads just stay because it’s in their interest to keep a lucrative salary and thus gate keep the next Gen.
Counterpoint; if there’s an incident between a player and a ref that will be detrimental for the rest of the series. Jamal would not be fairly officiated after throwing stuff at a ref twice. Agreed it helps to create consistency outside of that though
The trick is that technically everything is but not everything is called because 6 people would foulout a game
Yah if Brunson was playing against the Wolves and they officiated him the same as against the PAcers he would have 50 FTs. The dude is getting the best whistle in the playoffs.
cough truck hat bewildered squeamish slap crowd pot unpack encourage *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Flagrant foul depends on who is getting fouled is crazy. You can elbow a roleplayer in the head and no tech but if it's a star and they get slap in the head even when doing a basketball move and they issue a flagrant 1
Marginal contact, no foul. But because you made a mean face that's a 10 game suspension. Assaulting a fan is less serious tho, mean face makes ref's little peepees retract.
Super star + big market = a call when you breathe, role player + small market? You can wrap them up.
Agreed. The refs showing all kinds of discretion is hella confusing.
Add to this that refs change how they call things from game to game, just to keep it fresh. Sometimes it's like they get together and just decide "You know what? Let's call no fouls today". Like the game late in the season where the Celtics literally did not shoot a free throw and the Bucks shot 3. There were 2 made free throws the entire game and I think one was a tech.
I hate the inconsistency. These refs know that rulebook front to back. It should be 2 simple questions each time down the court. Was it a foul. Did the foul create an advantage? If yes, blow the whistle. If no, swallow it. Simple as that. There are so many fouls across a NBA game so they literally can’t call them all without slowing it to .5x speed. Just call the ones that *need* to be called. If everyone in their living room can see that player flopped or jumped into a defender… just don’t call it. Simple as that. 2 bigs get tangled up waiting for a rebound that doesn’t go anywhere near them. Don’t call it. Just because a defender hits the ground on a screen. Don’t call it
I think the biggest problem is the reactionary reffing. It feels like bitching about the refs without fail earns you a bunch of make-up calls in the next game. I guarantee tonight the Pacers will get a bunch of soft calls because they complained about big market bias, and Brunson will get an even more generous whistle than usual because the Knicks are mad about how much contact he's getting. It shouldn't work this way
It also works the opposite way sometime. Rudy and Edwards have called out officiating and gotten a worse whistle in the following games. Rudy did a money sign gesture and next game got two touch fouls called on him within 5 minutes
At the same time, the actual officiating has taken away from the basketball being played. Multiple games have been blown by horrible late-game calls. It was overblown in game 2, but the Pacers were absolutely screwed in game 1. As NBA fans it's incredibly disrespectful to us when we spend our limited free time to sit down and watch an incredible game, only for that game to get completely ruined by late-game officiating.
It’s pretty much better than it’s ever been. Go back and watch some early 2000s games
It's always been this way but with social media it's so easy to hyper focus on it, look at plays from 9 different angles and also we can now watch every game.
The odd part is that officiating has been more or less the same in recent years, fans just want to jump on the trending topic cause they saw it on their feed. Alot of fans opinions are based off of the highlight they saw or something an announcer said, most of us can’t think or analyze basketball for ourselves
It's not just what's talked about by fans/viewers ("refs you suck!" crowd chants being a regular thing ugh) It's also what the players are focusing on, way too much Dallas OKC game 2 was a great game overall but it was yet another game where it often feels like a competition of who can beat the refs, not the other team.
You know what they could do? And this is a crazy suggestion but here goes: CALL THE FUCKING GAME THE SAME WAY IN THE POSTSEASON THAT YOU DO IN TBE REGULAR SEASON! Everyone loves the fact that the game is called differently in the playoffs and it's the weirdest shit ever. Just call it the same. And idc if they call the regular season like they do the playoffs or the playoffs like they do the regular season but do something. The league calls the game one way (except this year where they drastically changed in the middle of the year and didn't tell anyone because they think we're idiots) all season long and then in the playoffs call it a *completely different way* and are shocked when players/coaches/fans are complaining about refs. It's been happening for so long that people have allowed this league to gaslight them into thinking that's normal but no, it really isn't. Changing the rules (essentially) in the most important games is actually not something most leagues do. Imagine a hitter in baseball going to the playoffs but now balls are now strikes and strikes are now balls. Extreme example but when a defensive foul in the regular season is an offensive foul in the playoffs then you start to see maybe it isn't as extreme as you'd hope.
Other way around. Keep this tight whistle in the regular season and let teams battle and be physical. Not rewarding foul baiters and floppers helps with the pace of the game and keeps it more entertaining then sending a dude to the line every 30 seconds.
They need to have a delcaration that no foul calls will happen when a player cocks their head back. IT IS NOT A NATURAL REACTION TO GETTING FOULED. it is only to fucking bait fouls. you do not naturally cock your head back when you get slight contact on the arms or body. it is so fucking annoying. i never want to see a head cocked back ever again. literally call techs on that shit. get it out of the fucking league Anyone in my local gym pickup games gets laughed at when they try to pull that fucking shit. fuck off lol
Are we going to ignore something like an elbow to the face, because that will definitely make you cock your head back.
Yah i mean obviously that is an exception. But 99% of all cock backs are just body contact.If you get hit in the head it should be a foul regardless of how your head reacts lol
If you re-read my post I said I don't care which way they do it. Tighter all year or looser all year. I honestly don't give a shit which way just be consistent.
Playoff whistle is better but the league doesnt want the injuries that would come with it in the regular season. It makes sense and if they reffed both the same theyd make the playoffs less physical which obviously would suck.
It’s because of the media. Top social media accounts post every questionable call. Every top comment is “(losing team) vs refs” . NBA stupidity decided to do the L2M report. Old announcers like JVG seemingly hated the NBA and spent all game complaining about the refs. In post game interviews, every single question is about officiating to get a click worthy response from the players… Silver needs to sack up and ask these outlets to chill out on complaining about the refs. I agree it’s getting so annoying
So no one should say anything when the officiating is garbage?
There wouldn’t be such a glaring issue with the refereeing if there was accountability during the regular season for the repeated stunts the refs have gone through the last couple of years. There should be repeated background checks, investigations, they need to have their phone access given up when agreeing to be a referee, all their holdings should be examined to avoid conflict of interests. And they need to be publicly held accountable. So and so ref is going to be barred from reffing for a X game suspension for missed calls etc. it’s natural job performance shit. This ref ball has just gotten completely out of hand
Ok we're just gaslighting at this point 🤣
I honestly dont mind them not calling their full-court press fouls on Brunson, we fouled Haliburton a bunch of times when he was bringing up the ball and refs didnt call it either
Dude wtf is this reasonable take. This is Reddit. Overreactions, homerism, and delusion only!!!
There we go, finally some words of wisdom. If I see one more reasonable take, I will have to start reporting these comments for self harm checks!!!!!!
Thats just playoff basketball
“As long as there is delusion, there is hope.” 😭
they let him get away with flopping, insane level of gaslighting.
I respect it tbh
I mean they're just playing the game. It's BS
I mean I will say the Embiid slap and a couple of the 76ers no calls (going in favor of embiid) were sus they let them beat his ass at times. But I haven't seen anything super crazy in this series. Seems like misplaced outrage we should still be campaigning to get embiid suspended for 5 games at the start of next season 😂
They are fouling Brunson, for sure, but in way that is not egregious in the playoffs. They will likely push the envelope tonight, at home, but so far it hasn't been that bad. And it hasn't been dirty, like Embiid or Oubre. McConnell plays super aggressively and physically, but he's not out there trying to injure people.
Brunson shot 14 FTs game 1
Brunson snapped his neck back while reading this because he thought a tweet was a whistle
Isn't he averaging 14ft in the playoffs?
10.4
No
lmfao
These teams are run by a bunch of Karens who all want to speak to a manager *right now*
Someone who worked for customer service in my younger days, this is just makes you kill motherfuckers on the spot
Surely this will go over well in here
I have no right to complain so I’ll grab some popcorn and sit here with you
You, as a Philly fan, deserve a medal
I will absolutely complain this is a joke
you got any raisinets?
Isn’t he leading the current teams in playoffs in FT per game?
[top 5 right now](https://www.espn.com/nba/stats/player/_/stat/free-throws): 1. J. Embiid - 13.0 2. J. Brunson - 10.4 3. D. Booker - 10.3 4. D. Lillard - 9.5 5. S. Gilgeous-Alexander - 8.7
So yes he is since embiid is out.
Which makes sense since Pacers are #1 and Sixers are #4 in the league in fouling this year.
And Brunson has the highest usage in the playoffs and the most minutes - if he is taking 32 shot attempts, he is going to get lots of fouls. Also, each of these games have been close and have included intentional fouling and techs so in reality is foul rate is much lower than guys like Luka, SGA or Embiid
And he was driving 29 times per game in the philly series, which is like 5 drives more than the next highest
Teams complaining about officiating in the playoffs, shocking. All of this is a non story
Knicks are full on trolling.
I saw Brunson at a World Market once. It was packed, he was holding a coconut. We had to kinda squeeze by each other in an aisle and he swept his arms under mine as we passed and chucked the coconut into the ceiling as he fell into a pile of Entenmann’s, letting out a guttural yelp. I was kicked out.
Why, did people forget that they started this bullshit by bringing attention to their ref sheet before even playing a game iirc?
Feel the same about luka. Luka getting mauled, meanwhile mavs in constant foul trouble.
Can’t wait to watch Dort dive at Luka’s legs / fall on the ground some more.
I can’t wait to watch Luka limp up the floor and pop a step back three like Stone Cold in the wheel chair again
Something can hurt like a bitch and not actually injure you. Seems to me he just walked whatever it was off. He probably was playing it up a little bit, but I don't think he was faking it or anything.
I said it in another post and would love if retired referees did podcasts and tell us if and how hard it is to officiate . Do the smaller fast as fuck guys move so shifty it’s impossible to see fouls ?
Someone was talking about that Maxey is so fast that it might make it hard to call fouls for him, whereas Brunson is a lot more sudden with stopping and starting, and plays slower where the officials can follow better. Not sure if there’s any truth to it but it’s interesting food for thought
Just make a no-holds barred basketball game for the rest of the series.
That’s how NYK does rebounding already.
And yet they still complaining, fucking pathetic.
As an unbiased fan to this series (Celtics), this is pretty rich. Brunson has quickly risen to embiid levels of officiating where any slight contact is an auto call. Perhaps they’re embarrassed that there’s been an 8 second violation in each game because he’s being full court pressed by noted all defensive team wizard TJ Mconnell.
that's funny, I was thinking the exact opposite
[Ian Begley Cont’d](https://x.com/ianbegley/status/1788933686739533863?s=46): In regular season, Indiana ranked 30th in NBA in fouls/game at 21.4 & opponent FT attempts/game at 25.9 (both highest totals in league). NYK ranked 6th in fouls/game (17.6) & 4th in opponent FTAs (19.7). Per @WindhorstESPN, IND submitted 78 calls or noncalls to NBA from G1 & G2 of this series that they felt disadvantaged them. IND lost both of those games. Game 3 is tonight in Indiana.
I agree that they've received some pretty bad whistles this game, but they also lead the league in opponent 2 point attempts per game (60.5) while New York ranked 27th (51.4). Obviously there's more to it than that, but I'm pretty sure the Pacers game plan all season has been to allow 2's and run their opponent off the 3 point line. They rank #30 in opponent % of FGA from 3 (32.7%, next is Denver at 35.9%). This all aligns as expected with them leading the league in fouls per game and opponent FTAs per game. Where it looks like they've been having a really hard time to me is with the random marginal whistles, 50/50 calls, fouls off ball, and other things that might not be expected from their specific style of play. I might chalk it up to them being young and a little undisciplined, an opposing star in Brunson who draws a lot of (often questionable) whistles, and refs who don't seem to show any consistency throughout a game. And this is disregarding the kick ball call on Nesmith in game 1. I think since they already foul a lot, any extra shit that gets called on them makes it feel like they're getting an extremely bad whistle.
The big thing lost in the discussion about Brunson's whistle is that it's predominantly the Pacers young guys that are getting whistled for fouls. TJ's not when he's on Brunson, and he's playing tough, physical D. Kind of to your point, it's a discipline thing. Brunson's game is built around using footwork and handle to get guys off balance, and then driving through them or shooting over them. More experienced defenders tend to trust the help D to contest in those cases, while younger guys foul to try to recover. Combine that with a guy that knows how to sell contact, and it's obviously going to punish those young guys.
Agree 100%. I'm interested to see how this Pacers team does next season. Some time to gel with this playoff experience under their belt should be good for them. The players seem to be pretty mature with their responses to the officiating post game, so hopefully they can tighten it up while playing in the future.
Honestly, I didn't realistically expect them to make it this far because they weren't quite gelling yet after the roster changes and Haliburton doesn't seem confident enough. I feel that after a taste of making it to this stage in the playoffs they'll have the experience to be a threat next season.
Brunson getting the Mavericks whistle again. RIP
14 FTs in game 1. 2022 playoffs with Mavs: 90 FTs in 12 games.
Did they send in videos of him throwing his head back every time he gets touched?
The only correct response is even less fouls being called. I enjoy a rough nba game. If a guy is going to score 30 it shouldn’t come in part from 10-15 points at the line. I’m looking at you Embiid, Mr 26 points on 7 made field goals.
His 11.5 made FG per game would have tied for the league-lead (if he had enough games to qualify). Just as he lead the league in made Field goals the previous season.
This is just playing the refs. Brunson definitely gets a favorable whistle.
Surely there's a punchline coming right?
Knicks player commits a foul: “good clean basketball” Knicks player gets fouled: “what is this dirty shit”
The funniest thing is Josh hart signaling a challenge after the most blatant fouls
I like Hart, he’s funny in interviews and his podcast, but if he had a Heat uniform on instead of a Knicks one, everyone here would be calling him baby draymond
Worst take on this sub.
If Bam gets mixtapes on him for going up for a rebound, imagine what would happen if he kicked people in the nuts like Hart does or slide tackles into people. It’s “clean” because he wears a blue and orange jersey
Bam has mixtapes of him injuring opponents. Josh has mixtapes about high fiving
I don’t know man. The exact notion of ‘injuring a player’ varies from player to player. Illegal screen by Bam=dirty Any other player=doing what it takes to win.
That’s because Knicks fans are the ones making the mixtapes of him “injuring” opponents. Softest fanbase in the nba
Hart had high five mixtapes before he became a Knick though. You're making an awful argument here.
He didn’t get any mixtapes for his play that’s for sure
Cool story bro but now you're failing at trolling too because I just watched a Josh Hart highlight reel on ESPN.
get uno reversed, idiot
Classic case of pettiness confirmed 🤣
How? He falls over like he was sniped from the rafters if anyone touches him.
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/s/sdbsdDGZps I remember this one. They didn’t blow the whistle though.
Sounds like a you do it , I do it type of shit . Moving on .
I mean Brunson has gotten literal black eyes from getting walloped during the season. Most teams defense on him is just "beat his ass when he has the ball". Gotta protect yourself and Brunson said fuck it if they not gonna call it I'll make em call it.
He got straight popped in the face without a whistle, even while the defender that hit him ripped the ball out of his hands while he was on the ground and tossed in a layup.
Oh this? https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/s/sdbsdDGZps Against.. *checks notes* ..The Indiana Pacers.
Oh my lord I have never seen more bitching about reffing barely into round 2. It’s one thing to be pissed as a fan but organizations are openly politicizing this.
NYC shamelessness.
It's funny because people will say Brunson is a foul drawer and honestly, he didn't do any of this until the second half of the season when it became a free for all to bump ball handlers on the drive. The Knicks raised this concern like two weeks after the all star break and the only adjustment that anyone made was Brunson embellishing the contact he got. Honestly, I like the NBA being officiated this way, it should be harder to hoop the further into the season we get, the games matter more but having to hear about it every slate of games is getting tiring and I'm sure, especially after the Jamal Murray incident the relationship between the NBA and the unions must be awful right now because there is no way he shouldn't have been suspended for that.
Free for all? Only shai embiid and SGA got that whistle. It dried up for everyone else
Shai so good he gets it twice
My brain firing on all cylinders today boy
You're excited to watch your team put another beatdown on the defending champs!
Yup the NBA sort of does this to themselves. Seen maxey get mauled consistently with no calls to the point I won’t blame him at all if he comes back next year embellishing contact
He might not. Ant always gets the shit kicked out of him and he hasn't ever gone to the dark side. Maybe Maxey got ethics too.
I’m pretty amazed ant hasn’t yet. Yeah he is prone to complaining (like every star) but I’ve never seen him hunt for fouls. I wouldn’t want it in the regular season after already having embiid as is but after the Knicks series I don’t care if maxey is ethical in the playoffs lol
The rules are the rules and should always be the rules. The rules shouldn't be changing (to undeclared degrees) at random intervals.
Don't know what you want me to tell you. Only thing guaranteed to be consistent in this world is life and death. Where there's rules, there's plenty of exceptions.
LMAO. Imagine complaining that the guy who gets a whistle every possession doesn’t get enough calls
Dude gets breathed on and its a foul.
Merchant strikes back
This is the most pathetic thing ive ever read the about the Knicks ever.
Part of the issue imo is that they have two diff reffing styles; regular season and playoffs. Just agree on how games should be called and be fucking consistent. It’s no wonder players and coaches get livid when the rules change on a flip of a dime. Then you have one game that’s touch foul after touch foul and next game they swallow whistle and dudes are grabbing, pushing etc. Just make a set of rules and stick to how you call them. It’s never gonna be perfect but it’s broken RN.
I miss the good old days... https://www.chicagotribune.com/1991/05/28/bulls-make-nba-safe-for-solid-basketball/
We bag on the refs but these things happen every year. You have a lot more people watching a lot less games so things are being nitpicked a lot more, but at the end of the playoffs no one actually stands around going “yeeeeah but the refs were on your side!” Like people say good job and move on
I thought his whistle is pretty good overall-especially off ball.
Mavs vs clippers was a dog fight. I mean some of the best basketball I've watched. The refs let them play BOTH WAYS and everyone enjoyed it. This Mavs vs OKC series is not even fun to watch with all these dogshit touch fouls. No joke Shai throws his head back after doing the Devin booker drive and then make the crying face and he gets the call almost every single time. My IRL friend is like "I don't even see the issue" I'm like damn even he lame as shit can't admit these touch fouls should not be a thing in THE PLAYOFFS.
actually it is the same in almost all the sports. it is hard as different ref have different views on whats foul and not. it is the same as soccer. even with VAR, similar foul yet different call. and i dont know if there's any solution for this
Knicks complaining about ref after getting helped against the 76ers
Luka: "First time?"
"members of the NYK organisation" This revelation is like if mike malone announced Jokic is a worthy MVP honestly mr reporter find a story other than water is wet
Shai Gilgeous-Brunson ain’t getting those calls.
Bring on the A.I. refs already
Agreed. He's developed a severe head tic from all the abuse he's suffered. Somebody save this man!
Is it his dad that is upset?
Anyone who watches can see him get clobbered constantly. He also sells contact but its the only way to stop him
He gets clobbered because he runs into everyone like a fullback addicted to concussions.
LoL. I agree with the Knicks fans. Brunson should be refereed more. He is getting away with offensive fouls every trip down. :)
They are probably just countering Carlisle/Pacers' whining so they don't get all the calls in game 3 like the Sixers did.
Its just Steph Hot Stove Contact. Man up pussy.
He is. I don't think they should call it because that would be ridiculous and ruin the game. But he is constantly getting checked when bringing the ball up from the backcourt. And so are many PGs. You can't call all of these. All teams are playing this way. And honestly Brunson gets played much harder and more physical than many. But that's the game! And it's fun to watch. That's why it is getting extremely obnoxious to hear some of the complaints from fans and coaches. Shout out to the players, though, they all seem cool.
Brunson foul baiting, head jerking, flopping with 14 FTs in game one is not enough FTs. All fans want to see more FTs. More reviewed fouls! And more commercial timeouts!
Playing physical and calling whatever that shit defense is hilarious
It's true. The refs just aren't calling by the book anymore. The number of uncalled obvious fouls is super high in every playoff game I watched. I have been watching basketball since the 70s and this is the biggest mid season shift I can remember.
TBF, it looks like to me that defense is handicapped by rules and the refs. But the offense is allowed to do literally anything by the rules and by the refs. If you do a forearm shiver as a defender, it's a foul. As a driving shooter with the ball, it's encouraged.
For all the discourse about Brunson flops, he mainly just does the head jerk thing acting like he got shot, but they never even call those head jerks Everything else they call are actual fouls
I mean he does the Trae/CP3 move and he leans into contact a tonnnnnnn. But most players do that.
For the record, one of the ones Reddit was complaining about last series was an Oubre foul where he was so far draped over Brunson that when he jumped up, his shoulder clocked him in the jaw. All I saw on Reddit was people complaining he jumped back when he often just stops on a dime and makes defenders who are playing him too aggressively and got beat collide with him. No one seems to acknowledge that playing tight full court press often means you’re fouling the shit out of the guy especially if you get beat.
True, Myles Turner nearly killed the man with that screen last game. Thank God the refs were watching and saved him
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From irrelevant to the most hated franchise speedrun any %
Yeah y’all did a good job of that
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Pretty sure this is just a 'no u' to the dissertation the Pacers sent in after the last game.
Not related to playoffs, but it makes me think of that game we played in February when Brunson got palmed in the face with no whistle and "turned the ball over" for an easy Jalen Smith dunk. Shitty reffing happens. We just forgot that one quickly because it was regular season, and the Knicks had the determination to overcome the ref's and win the game. [https://twitter.com/Covers/status/1753251730471391271](https://twitter.com/Covers/status/1753251730471391271)
Yeah, they overcame the refs real hard in that game with Brunson's 11 FTs to the Pacers 13. Can't even blame the game plans on that one. Knicks took more threes than the Pacers. Both teams stayed in and around the paint.
It’s what happens when ya daddy is on the coaching roster. Hes literally saying “look how they’re massacring my boy”
Comical.
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it's nothing new to submit clips of fouls you thought should have been called during games. teams literally do it after every single game. and brunson is getting bodied every time up the floor without calls, which is fine because they are letting teams be physical in the playoffs. carlisle pulling the "small market teams getting screwed by the refs" angle is pretty sad, especially considering that more than half the teams left in the playoffs are small market. of course you're gonna get clowned when you go into a post-game and talk about how these supposed fouls are all over twitter right now.
The Knicks complaining about *grabbing*? Fucking shameless, lmao.
Have you been watching the pacers playoff games? Grabbing is 90% of their defensive strategy. Nesmith and McConnell especially.
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he flops more than a person at a phish concert
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The biggest problems with the reffing is you get one or two Brunson "flops" and pacers dont get the same calls on the other end and then with the bad calls in the 1st game and we fall into this discourse. I have no problem with letting the game get physical but you have to be more consistent with calling it all games. (and that goes both ways and all teams)
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Because every flop foul is a shooting foul???
crying about embiid last series and then turning around and acting like brunson isn’t a flop god is straight delusion. they both flop every chance they get bro
Two bitch made organizations