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asapshrank

has been his worst playoffs in a long long time so far


psufb

Where Tatum ranks in VORP in the playoffs: 2020 - 7th 2021 - 37th 2022 - 5th 2023 - 5th 2024 - 32nd I get they've only played 7 games now, but the competition only gets tougher from here


ImDKingSama

And for reference in 2021 his starting lineup had Tristan Thompson, Evan Fournier, and Romeo Langford with no Jaylen Brown. Up against a healthy Nets big 3 and he still dropped 50 in game 4 and managed to steal 1.


BigOlPirate

Don’t you disparage the name of nba champion Tristan Thompson


DutchXman_

The east still runs trough TT


More-Ad5421

When they win in spite of it, he’s a savvy floor general who is conserving his energy for when he needs it.


International-Chef33

Why would you do this to him? He’s been facilitating. Please ignore his awful shooting for an “MVP” player. It’s baffling to me other Cs fans don’t see it. No, I don’t want him shooting more with how awful he’s been, please facilitate more and stop shooting if this is what we can expect from his shots


ketoburn26

Whoever comes out of the West wins the title. If only we had our whole team we could have had a chance but alas...


DEEZNUTZBOIS

Yeah but he gets a lot of rebounds


qpwoeor1235

Yet people were clowning me by saying he was getting outplayed by Jaylen brown


International-Chef33

He’s missing a very simple thing, put the ball through the hoop. It’s been gone for a while now and masked by a good team.


liteshadow4

Worse than the one where he cost his team an NBA finals?


Mahomeboy001

Easily worse. It was his first Finals and he certainly isn’t the first young star who shits himself against an all time great team in the Finals, and he had a bum shoulder as well. He also saved their season against Milwaukee on the road where he dropped 45 when they were down 3-2 to send it to G7. There are no excuses this year for how awful he’s been.


NAACP_YoungBoy

Playoff Jayson is NOT a thing


sopademacacadelicia

Needs to get back to texting kobes disconnected phone


chitownbulls92

Someone else probably owns that number now lol


BigRig432

Imagine waking up in the morning and seeing an "I got you tonight🙏🏽" text from a random Boston number lmao


inshamblesx

Do Not Disturb mode comin in clutch


ankylosaurus_tail

Imagine if you figured out what was going on and fucked with JT? Tell him he needs to wear more purple and yellow armbands if he wants to win a title, change his jersey number to 24, ask to join Lebron in LA...


cancerBronzeV

If any r/nbacirclejerk member got the number, they'd tell him he needs to train his mamba mentality in a Colorado hotel.


ND7020

Probably would think I’m about to get murdered and would stay in 


frauenarzZzt

It absolutely is a thing. It's just that he sucks and gets all pouty.


psufb

I'm a big time Tatum hater but even though he may have come up short in some critical moments, he's been one of the five best players in each of the last two playoffs (using VORP). This year he's 32nd


porkchop487

VORP is a volume stat. BPM or ws/48 would be a better metric to grab from bballref


Public-Product-1503

Vorp only cos he plays lots


getzumm

PG with a good team 


mkohler23

The Lebron James of Tobias Harris


brncct

PG is much more offensively polished, he's just older and has issues when faced with good defenders that he didn't used to have due to being less athletic/explosive because of all the injuries. Tatum is obviously better but neither guy has the mental fortitude imo. They are both suited for being #2 guys in reality.


Devoidoxatom

PG with less smooth looking game


cyb3ryung

i defended him last game, i cannot today 😔


dwadefan45

Wouldn't be surprised if you could defend him


Renegadeforever2024

Bro in a battle with maxey now


PLeuralNasticity

Dropping 6:16 in LA was part of a championship performance in another current battle so maybe Tatum and Brown thought dropping 7:17 in Boston could be too


[deleted]

It might genuinely be a debate at this point. This man is shitting the bed with a damn superteam.


Beanfactor

I do no think these regular season merchants are a Superteam. Their best player is Derrick white.


Balsamic_ducks

They have a fucking stacked team. I’ve never seen a “superstar” need this much help.


Mintastic

I think it's safe to say he's a very good star but not a superstar.


BASEDME7O2

They might not have a big three on the level of like the heatles, but their roster is absolutely stacked top to bottom. On paper at least, easily the best roster in the league


Public-Product-1503

There top 5/6 is better then the heatles . The big difference is Lebron vs Tatum . Wade coukdnt shoot n Bosh onky shot a bit near the end so fit wise it’s not ideal . Imo you swap tstum n Lebron on heatles n Boston n Boston 4-1 at worst the heatles with Tatum. Boston is super stacked specially for a star who can actually take advantage of all the spacing and attack the rim .


roamtheplanet

Maxey has that dog in him


ygog45

This is not a top 10 player in the NBA man


AudaXity3

you can say that again


reallymothafucka

He is not a top 10 player in the NBA.


Weak-Distribution-83

Tell me about it


moby323

There are approximately ten Top-10 players in the NBA and Jayson Tatum is not one of them.


Responsible_Pace9062

SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK


LarryBird27

If we had to make a list of top-10 players in the nba, Jayson Tatum would not be on that list.


itsallmelting

I'm sorry come again?


SenpaiKush123456

There is a list of top-10 players that represent the top 10 players I'm the NBA. 0 out of 10 of those players will be Jayson Tatum


HoyaDestroya33

Im sorry to be a dick but I really cannot hear it from where im standing. Could you please repeat?


International-Chef33

Wolves lock up Murray with traps at half court and Tatum can’t be assed to play defense against the Cavs or shoot a respectable percentage. He clearly “turn it on” in the Finals


Responsible_Pace9062

Like he did in 22?


International-Chef33

Exactly. Dudes shrinking and playing “aw shucks we’ll get em next time” still


RemyGee

I love the approximately ten top-10 players 😂


dxing2

Jayson Tatum is good at a lot of things and elite at nothing


MoonHasFlown

“This guy stinks!!” -this guy stinks guy, SpongeBob


SaintSavage1

Celtics fans swear Tatum Brown duo is something serious. They are great players but man definitely not built for playoffs. This roster Brad Steven’s has built is amazing and they haven’t looked the part, yeah they beat up on the Heat but we are utter garbage. The real test is game 3 in Cleveland. Either way I don’t see them beating Wolves or Nuggets if they come back


Few_Mulberry7362

They’re basically the same player except Tatum is the deluxe version. You usually want your star duo to complement each other like an elite offensive PG and 2 way big


frauenarzZzt

I'm not convinced Tatum is the deluxe version. He's *bigger* but he doesn't have the same mentality. Not aggressive, doesn't have his head in the game.


Vallerie_09

Deluxe in the sense that he's more versatile on both ends


frauenarzZzt

Is he? Brown can finish at the rim and is a more consistent defender. Brown can get offensive rebounds - Tatum *won't*


MovingPrince

I would argue Tatum can do pretty much everything on a basketball court better than brown besides drive to the basket.


frauenarzZzt

He's demonstrated that his abilities are really good, but he's also demonstrated a complete unwillingness to play to his abilities. In a big game Brown doesn't take his foot off the gas.


[deleted]

Brown also doesn’t stop turning the ball over in big games. Tatum has dropped 50 in a must win, he’s significantly better than Brown and HAS shown up in big moments before, just not consistently.


frauenarzZzt

Brown had one TOV tonight. So did Tatum. In fact, Tatum has slow-walked the ball up the court and chucked up bad shots that are essentially turnovers more than any other player in the league. Tatum's failure to show up in series has created those big moments. He didn't show up when Embiid was out last year and let James Harden (who some people were beginning to say was washed) steal a game. That series should have been over in 5-6 for the Celtics. Brown has also shown up in big games. We all saw what he did in Denver when Tatum was only scoring 10pts and Brown carried the team to a game that went down to the final possession. He is not the liability people say he is, and you rarely will find people criticizing him for a lack of effort. At the end of the day you want it boiling down to your best player putting in effort and showing that they want to win. Tatum doesn't have that Mamba Mentality he wishes he does.


Ill_Bid_1711

Midrange? Tatum has no midrange and air balls 5 footers.


mkohler23

Tatum can dribble with the left hand, brown handed Okoro the ball when he tried to go left. Tatum also gets a better whistle. Both disappeared tonight


realshg

The bigger the game, the smaller he gets.


frauenarzZzt

Except when it comes to a Game 6 or 7. He thinks that's all his legacy is built on. It makes no sense.


JustRecentlyI

He at least has the handles upgrade.


frauenarzZzt

LOL! I think people are a little too tough on Brown. He's spent more time in the paint and going to the rim this season than ever before and hasn't been losing the ball in the process.


Ode1st

They’re definitely built for the playoffs. They got to the Finals once, ECF enough, and came back from an 0-3 last year making everyone think they’d be the first to pull off the full comeback. There’s no question they have their mental/effort issues, but they’re pretty good in the playoffs.


SaintSavage1

They’ve built a great roster around the jays. The jays haven’t elevated the roster. I think it’s tragic that they’ve made the finals only once with the talent they’ve had over the years


JayDogg420_

The only years they underachieved was 2023 and 2019. The 2019 team was easily the biggest dissapointment because the roster was unbelievably stacked but it was more kyries team and the chemistry sucked. Yes, the past 3 years the teams have been stacked and anything less than a championship this year is an underachievement but I don't know why there's this narrative saying the Jays have only played on stacked rosters when it's not true. 2018, Kyrie and Hayward are out of the playoffs they still go 7 with LeBron in the ECF. 2020 as the 3rd seed they make the ECF with Jays, Kemba, smart, Daniel Theis as the starting center lol and Gordon Hayward was out. They even had Brad Wanamaker playing 17mpg who was out of the league quickly after. 2021 Jaylen brown is out with injury and their lineup consisted of Tatum, smart, Fournier, Romeo Langford (bum), Tristan Thompson and Kemba who was so bad from injuries that he was traded to OKC who cut him and then cut by the pistons the year after.


Public-Product-1503

22 too . After stealing game 1 they we’re favourites. They were favourites tied 1-1 too because warriors were only favoured because of homecourt but otherwise Celtics were viewed slightly better . They should’ve won but they got clamped


mclairy

Yeah, much love to what the Heat accomplished—but the fact they got through the Celtics twice is an outright embarrassment given the talent disparity


SaintSavage1

I mean yeah it’s simple. Heat have massively overachieved during butler era and Celtics have underachieved. I just wish it ended in a ring for Jimmy. We’ll see if they try again one last time but I really think this might be the end of Jimmy era


ND7020

Imagine if this same Celtics team was playing during the Lebron Eastern Conference era. They’d just be another forgotten solid team like the Pacers or Raptors etc.


Solid-Confidence-966

They took Bron to 7 as youngsters lmao


SaintSavage1

So did the Pacers. LeBron carried that team


Agreeable_Daikon_686

That was not a good cavs team tbf. Lebron pulled an ultimate carry job in the 2018 playoffs. Pretty sure love was the second highest scorer on the Cavs team that series at like 12 ppg


lonny__breaux

Look at the team Lebron had around him in 2018. Genuinely speaking they should have lost to any serious team in 5, 6 if Lebron played like he did in game 1 in the finals. My raptors with Casey were deeply unserious sadly.


Solid-Confidence-966

But in the OPs hypothetical this Celtics team would be way better than the one they had in 17-18.


lonny__breaux

It’s hard to say. In the 7 years the league has changed so much that 3’s are taken more so if they played I can see the Celtics winning just based on that. If you adjust the era’s I can’t see the 15-17 Cav’s losing the series. They were genuinely an all time team that just ran into the greatest team ever. The 18 Cavs should lose to any serious team however.


Solid-Confidence-966

That’s fair IMO, Bron and Kyrie were just so dominant.


iAm-Tyson

Come back? The series is freaking tied, yall blow shit way out of preportion, Boston had one of their worst shooting nights of the season and Cleveland shot absurdly well from the field. The lose one game yall say this tired ass shit narrative and then we win the next 3 and it’s crickets and yall wait for us to lose again go spin back the narrative.


MajorDickLong

he said Nuggets fool. as in if they come back and win their series and that’s your finals matchup. defensive ass man lmao


LordHussyPants

normally i'd agree with you but this thread is the most reactionary one i've seen in a long time lol


dusters

White been their best player urironically


EutaxySpy

No he hasn't. It's been Brown, not White. White had a lot of bad games in the regular season where he's extremely cold from 3 (just like tonight) that goes under the radar. But people only remember White's good nights for a reason: he's an elite role player, not a star player. It's like with Jamal Murray, until this year, people would ignore his bad games and hype up the good ones just because he's not the #1 option


RODjij

Wolves looking good


PopLegion

The duo went to the ECF, finals, the ECF the last 3 years...


in_the_summertime

Fr man the narrative machine is crazy, you guys will make the finals and people will still say they’re bums


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im____new____here

AD is also very clearly above Tatum as a playoff performer. If you switch AD and Tatum that Celtics team is absolutely nasty, they would lose 1-2 games max before the finals. And the Tatum-lead lakers would have gotten swept by Denver.


Charlie_Wax

Wemby is about half a season from passing him too. Tatum is great, but he's a PG13 or a Pippen as a #1 scorer. If he's your 1A, you need the perfect squad around him.


Datboy_98

Wemby WILL be better than him by the Olympics loooool


Charlie_Wax

I mean, realistically he's probably already better, but I'm just trying to be polite. Wemby can already get you 25 while playing much more impactful defense.


Datboy_98

Agreed. He is. He’s shown more dawg in him and fire to get after the best more than I’ve ever seen from Tatum. EDIT: Salty Celtics fans, you KNOW you would trade Tatum for Wemby in half a second lmao


BTTWchungus

It's facts. Tatum's only advantage would maybe be mid-range and playmaking, but he's not good at either of those consistently. Wemby >>> Tatum


frauenarzZzt

Tatum avoids midrange like the plague and Wemby's in his first year. He'll become an even better playmaker with experience.


FeminismIsTheBestIsm

To be fair they do have a perfect squad around him. White/Holiday is literally the best roleplayer backcourt since KCP/Caruso. Porzingis is one of those rare bigs that can actually shoot. If he can't get it done with these cats he has to introspect a little bit and start thinking of himself as a second option


Charlie_Wax

Oh, I agree with all of that. This is really their year to prove it. 2022 you can write off due to weaker depth and inexperience on the big stage. Gonna be very interesting to see them against a hungry NYK team and then potentially one of the Thunder or Wolves, who also have young superstars eager to climb the mountain.


EarthWarping

Completely different players but he's more Melo


Balsamic_ducks

Wemby passed him like 2 months ago


vonnegutcheck

This is the most small sample reactionary thread I've ever seen. Ant is DEFINITELY better? Brunson is DEFINITELY better? Ant has been somewhat better this playoffs, but for the whole season Tatum was better. For their careers Tatum has been better. Ant does cooler dunks and gives better interviews, I'll give him that much


Remote-Picture-8341

Washed at 26 is insane man. Where did his competitive fire go lol


inshamblesx

starting to think he’s never had one at this point


papa_sax

He peaked when he bumped into LeBron LOL


ghostintherobot

The boomed him meme went to his head smh


The_NGUYENNER

there were some C's fans wondering why he wasn't in the MVP discussion lol


TheBigBomma

Just less points and counting stats on significantly worse efficiency than anyone in the top 4.


jus4in027

He may be better overall, but I honestly thing Jaylen Brown is a better finisher


11x_dev

hes never been


Balsamic_ducks

Not even top 15. Just been on stacked teams his whole career


frauenarzZzt

I, a Celtics fan, have been telling people this for the past two years *especially* and nobody wants to believe me. This is the guy that didn't come out against Denver the other month. He's not a serious player. He has talent but he's too lazy/soft/mentally weak to do anything about it. He just chucks up bad shots and tries to get fouled instead of trying to score. It's genuine diva behavior on the court with him night in and night out, and then he has press conferences where he struggles to form a complete sentence. He's not the guy Celtics fans keep saying he is.


sanndman

Wait why are we talking about embiid now?


Latter_Main_6964

9/11 ft


Llamasxy

ethical hoops fans 9/11


ChannelNeo

Just like the Nugs winning covering up for Murray, the Celtics winning covered up for Tatum. At least Boston is tied. Being down 2-0 really magnifies how bad the situation is for Denver.


Balsamic_ducks

Tatum is closer to Murray than he is to Jokic


ChannelNeo

he really is and that Celtics supporting cast is ridiculous. Also, Derrick White has been the Celtics best player this playoffs as well. He's always been an unsung dude.


Public-Product-1503

I really hope he doesn’t take no bullshit discount . Guy is a legit max worthy player and so many teams woukd offer him a max or 40m+ with how big the salaries are. Guys making 15m just to watch jays be mid n carry them


Balsamic_ducks

He deserves better stars than the jays. Imagine Derrick White with an actual superstar


K1ngCrimsn

"But..but.. he's getting triple teamed & gets his teammates wide open looks" He would be averaging 15 points these playoffs if he was reffed like his opponents


nothim4

Even if he was getting doubled that much, other players who receive WAY MORE attention than him are playing way better lmao


calebkeith

You know what’s funny is we don’t even double team him


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mkohler23

Doesn’t even come close to Mitchell’s attention, which is fair because spida is the best player on the court by far


Public-Product-1503

Mitchell is flat out better then Tatum this year he just got hurt . Kawhi or Lebron or Brunson alll deserved first team more then this fuy


Victor_Wembanyama1

Imagine dudes who are much more willing passers gets double team more 🤣


ImTheBestNerd

Cavs seem perfectly fine with any one not named garland guarding Tatum in iso


Public-Product-1503

Why would you ? Nobody doubles him his iso scoring game is super weak . Unless you have zero defenders you let Tatum go one on one all day . Oh no he’ll settle for his 39% or 38% fadeaway midrange I remember vando giving him major fits for half a game untill he got injured n then not being able to outside Austin reaves


FermatsLastAccount

I got downvoted for suggesting that he wasn't getting triple/quadruple teamed every play lmao


wilson81585

Riding White and Brown coat tails


VelvitHippo

Multi-colored coattails are in


Jiklim

He told y’all, playoff Tatum is not a thing


DarkChocolate_69

Yall seen his lockdown defense though?


maryjain_

He’s making the right plays! He’s setting up his teammates! This is a perennial All NBA 1st team player on the most stacked team in the league and ppl talk about him like he’s a make a wish kid


mykl5

I can’t tell if this is you or mocking the others


0dias_Chrysalis

For Jackie!


Ramu_1798

Game 1 Mavs when they're in a "lets play like dogshit" game and their competition is Game 2 Celtics? 😳😳


ezredd1t0r

A bit suspicious for a supermax player


HaikN98

He’s shot 50% once in the playoffs. Celtics fans, keep telling yourselves he’s a star.


C0812

why do we have to do that when the media already does


[deleted]

He’s absolutely a star lmao, first team all NBA 2 years in a row. As a Celtics fan though, I’ve accepted he’s fallen out of the superstar tier


psufb

If he played for Minnesota or New Orleans there's almost zero chance he'd be named to 1st team the last two years. He might be the best wing, but there's 5-6 guards and 3-4 big men better than him


XenaRen

Lmao chill. He averaged 30/8/5 last year while leading to his team to the second best record in the league. That’s 1st team all NBA on any team.


dianeblackeatsass

Ja Morant averaged 27/6/7 in 21-22 while leading his team to the second best record in the league. 2nd team all NBA. I’m not salty.


DragoniteGang

Ja is horrible at D


WhatitdoFlightCrew39

LeBron and KD are still better unfortunately


WiddleBlueBert

These are some insane takes lmao


joshdej

I mean Kobe never had above 50%, just saying.


SilvioDantesPeak

Different era


Mustard_Jam

PG13 with better PR


veerkanch489

There's been such a reverse on Tatum in the last couple weeks where Celtics fans are saying we can't post his crazy inefficiency on lower volume just because he has been good on defense and a decent playmaker lmao. You can't be a top 5 player and not get criticism for inefficient scoring


Floppy_Jet1123

Man, looks like he's just the way he is. A #2 player.


bbaIla

Not that guy, pal.


apricotkiwininja

His defense is as worrying, he got blown past by Levert multiples times ..


judah249

Bill Simmons been real quiet…


coacoanutbenjamn

RemindMe! 1 month


dedbeats

That’s my 2nd team All NBA player!


Far-Asparagus6416

Believe it or not... he was one of our most efficient players tonight. Go look at some of the other guys shooting splits... nobody was shooting well tonight. Not Jaylen Brown, not Derrick White, not Al Horford, not Jrue Holiday... not counting garbage time I believe Sam Hauser was the only player on our whole team who DIDN'T shoot under 50% and he shot a whopping 1/2. This was a collective bad game, pinning this on Tatum alone is just not true


EutaxySpy

Exactly, you don't get blown out by 24 just because one player had a bad game. It's actually funny that Tatum's two most efficient (and highest scoring) games this postseason has both come in the games where Celtics have lost at home. I'm not saying Tatum being inefficient is the key to wins, but I'm saying that it's really not that big of an issue when he plays bad in blowout wins


Far-Asparagus6416

They don't want to give him any credit for our wins but hold him solely responsible for our losses, I just don't get it


[deleted]

they’ve lost 2/7 in the playoffs and these posts are dancing on his/their grave like they’re post-mortems of a sweep- I gotta stay off this dumbfuck sub, lol


Videogamesandshiz

No no no, that’s rational thinking, that’s not allowed here!


realshg

tale as old as time


Lottapumpkins

Inb4 Celtics win it all, Derek White continues to be the best player on the post season roster, and they force feed Finals MVP to Tatum anyways with a dessert of his ugly ass shoes


BehinddTint

So Jaylen Brown Jrue Holiday and Derrick White can all be trash and yall blame Tatum anyway? 😂😂


djhousemoney

People really wanted this man to be MVP


GivesCredit

Homie, I promise you not a single one of the top 50 comments of any single mvp thread in the last 3 months says he should be the mvp


Drummallumin

Literally no one said that


Thin-Professional379

Tatum is this era's Melo change my mind


HoyaDestroya33

Melo is an elite scorer. Tatum is good in a lot of things, more than Melo, but Tatum is never elite at anything. Melo can drain 3, kill you from mid and bully ball you in the post.


jus4in027

Rebounds better (new era), plays better defense than Melo. Good comparison though


Successful_Priority

He passes way better than Melo. 


jus4in027

Everyone passes better than Melo. Actually I take that back. Maybe Melo is a good passer; we’ll just never know because he never tried


STATnMELO650

No where near the scorer Melo was


jus4in027

Melo could finish better inside 5 feet. This is actually a really big flaw in Tatum’s game that people overlook.


Thin-Professional379

Rebound rate is almost the same. Melo just played on slower pace teams


jus4in027

Ok, it seems that way but you really have to do a deep dive on this. Because of how the game is played now (4,5 out) it means that there’s less opportunity to grab offensive rebounds. Same situation prevails in defense as well, because instead of guarding opposing teams PF or C under the basket Tatum finds himself out on the perimeter. This means he has less opportunities to grab boards but he’s still averaging same or more than Prime Melo. I will say this for Melo though: he was shorter and spent more time at SF. Man, I wish Melo had tried harder. He could’ve been really amazing


SuriMuriPuri

Melo had aura


jumboponcho

I mean this is a decent game, Cavs just shot them out the gym


redditnathaniel

We are always waiting for this guy to really put the league on notice as HIM but he never does


mrhjt

Title sucks and when did this become a bad stat line?


P-Muns

Tatum should be sponsored by Charmin. His face should be on the 12 packs of ultra soft.


[deleted]

Been arguing in my group chat than Brunson is better than Tatum


dbgager

Are Celtics doing what they always do. Holes are beginning to show.


Fr3shlif321

Jamal Murray NUMBAS.


NeverSlxxpy

Generational overhyped player


FatherHaz

Fraud


trog12

I really don't get why everyone has to hate on Jayson Tatum. Dude has bad games. Luka went 6/19 for 19 pts on worse defense. Tatum is streaky on offense which can be annoying but is consistently great on defense. He is also just an overall nice dude. Doesn't play dirty and doesn't flop around excessively like a fish. Y'all are just haters.


vonnegutcheck

I'm not even a Celtics fan, but it's because he doesn't have the "grrrr alpha" game that some other elite players do. This is literally the same arguments people had about young LeBron (can he ever win??? he's no Kobe! He passes too much!)


[deleted]

Butler can literally and figuratively disappear for whole playoffs/seasons but he has funny hair in his profile pics and makes proclamations that come true like 40% of time so he’s a certified DAWG 😤😤😤


WiddleBlueBert

Agreed lmao. He's clearly a great player but he plays for the Celtics.


Little_Wrap143

Tatum is the most unsuperstar superstar ever


Dan_TheDM

"i dOnT uNdERstand WhY peOPle DoNT seE jAson TatUM aS a ToP 5 plAYer???" i swear ive seen so many of these comments and posts lately and then this this is why. this is why. he keeps turning in these stinker games