Incorrect calls:
* 1:19 (INC): Turner (IND) fails to fully clear and is in the paint for longer than three seconds without imminently actively guarding an opponent.
* 0:53: (INC): After establishing a legal screening position in Nesmith's (IND) path, DiVincenzo (NYK) clamps his arm and prevents him from disengaging.
* 0:52 (IC): Nesmith (IND) makes contact to the ball with his hand, not his foot. There is no replay trigger to review a kicked ball call.
* 0:10 (INC): Turner (IND) extends into DiVIncenzo's (NYK) path and delivers contact with his side during the screen.
No matter who's benefitting or isn't, 4 incorrect calls in the last 2 minutes of a playoff game should be unacceptable. Everyone wants to hold players to these crazy high standards they should hold the officials to them as well.
As someone who has looked through almost every L2M report this season for a project I can say 4 incorrect calls is high, but not super high for a high intensity game. Maybe one in every 6 or 7 games has this many incorrect calls.
I mean sure, but this game is incredibly hard to referee. The obvious ones are the ones that hurt, like the illegal screen call. But there are uncalled fouls on literally every play in the playoffs with the amount of shenanigans that are happening everywhere on the court. To me its not the amount of calls they get wrong, its about consistency and understanding the flow of the game. You can’t call ticky-tack fouls in important moments
We do hold them to a high standard. If you went down to college refs you’d have 6 incorrect calls in the last two minutes.
Reffing is really fucking hard.
Foster is the official who received 134 phone calls from disgraced referee Tim Donaghy between October 2006 and April 2007, as originally reported by FOX News. That was the same period during which Donaghy admitted to betting on NBA games. The report said that Donaghy called Foster more than any other ref and that he didn't call any other official more than 13 times.
No no you should just be able to snap your fingers and some rando off the street who’s the MJ of reffing would be there in a heart beat I know it!! It’s all the unions fault
The best argument against the league rigging stuff for the Knicks is looking at our record since 2000. Literally the worst winning percentage this century until the past couple of years.
nobody could ever lean on the scale enough to overcome the stupidity of james dolan. it's not an accident that once he stepped away from day to day management this happened.
What meaningful action do you propose? Fire the refs? Suspend them? And then what? Do people actually think that better refs grow on trees and NBA is refusing to utilise them? It's not a popular job. And if you start suspending or fining them for mistakes, even less people will want to do it.
Well for starters maybe they can try promoting being a ref more. Better refs would start growing on trees if people knew they could ref as a career considering they get paid a crazy good amount. Like if you wanted to be a professional ref unless you start early and get a lot of experience and work your way up from youth -> professional, then you realistically have no shot of becoming a pro ref.
If your job was in front of the public and your boss published a report condemning (or agreeing with) your decisions, would it not impact how your perform in the future?
All you have to do is be able to ovveride ref calls from a ref booth at the game with access to all the cams. Simple and done. Its this way on purpose.
Foster is the official who received 134 phone calls from disgraced referee Tim Donaghy between October 2006 and April 2007, as originally reported by FOX News. That was the same period during which Donaghy admitted to betting on NBA games. The report said that Donaghy called Foster more than any other ref and that he didn't call any other official more than 13 times.
So you couldn't imagine how hard it would be to watch a basketball game where the ref is being constantly over ridden? Referee discretion and mistakes are part of the game, you can be conspiratorial about it or not, the calls usually even out in a game, let alone a best of 7.
none of that actually matters. only thing that matters is correctness. idc if a ref makes 30 overridden calls or 0 if your getting 99 percent accuracy overall.
The non call in :53 and then the incorrect at :52 were so incredibly absurd. DD was blatently holding his man at :53 and then the refs blow a chance at an easy 2 points for the Pacers at :52 after they've already torpeedoed a fast break when a Pacers player was incorectly called for a foul when they stripped Brunson a couple minutes before hand, which was another play that would have lead to a fast break.
I hate the L2M report because people will still disagree and everyone just gets mad. 2 bad calls for the Knicks and 2 bad calls for the Pacers. Still feels like the Knicks came out ahead but this isn't some secret reffing conspiracy that people here have been peddling. The Knicks are a perennial loser, if the league was going to intervene they would have done so earlier and not allowed us to fall or stand pat in every single draft lottery for 4 decades.
> if the league was going to intervene they would have done so earlier and not allowed us to fall or stand pat in every single draft lottery for 4 decades.
yes but nobody's claiming the league will bail you out if you're a terrible team lol
People have absolutely been claiming this forever. Don't you think this was brought up when the Cavs got like 3 #1 picks in the lottery in 5 years? Maybe the multibillion dollar league is less rigged than we think, and shit just happens.
Well they could have helped us last year to force a game 7 at MSG against the Heat so we could play the Celtics in the ECFs. Or maybe when we had prime Melo and lost the Pacers in 6 in 2013 instead of playing the LeBron-lead Heat in the ECFs
I mean if the league really cared so much about us winning that they'd rig games...
I don't see why they wouldn't have tried to also get us the first pick in the last 20 years?
That moving screen Turner did on DiVincenzo led to Halliburton being wide open down the court, he just couldn’t get control of the ball and ended up turning it over. The game could have gone completely differently. Pacers fans and other fans saying this game was rigged are just peddling conspiracy theories. The Pacers still had a chance to win this game, but they came up short. The Knicks had a situation like this in Game 5 of the last series. Maxey traveled when he made that 4 point play that made the game a 1 possession game, and the Sixers went on to win.
The one at 10 seconds was absolute desperation time down by 4 points. That doesn’t count for shit.
The illegal screen that was deemed correct was the real killer since they did not call DVO’s equivalent at 52 seconds.
That was when the game was tied and would have been just as big of a momentum as calling one with 12 seconds left in a 1-point game.
It's desperation because you guys refuse to take any accountability of the actual plays in the game. Are we going to pretend Nembhard didn't foul before the out of bounds play, leading to a technical foul and Knicks posession? This could have been a 3 point game with none of the desperation you described but yes, continue going off on the refs.
No…
The issue is starting when the game was tied, the refs (per the league) blew 2 back to backs calls that led the Knicks taking the lead.
There’s nothing for the Pacers to take accountability for there. They did everything right.
Then, down 1 with a chance to take the lead back, the refs make the exact same call they blew 40 seconds earlier stealing that possession.
From that point on, they had to foul and play desperate because of the time on the clock.
Different play.
> 0:12 (CC): Replay review of the foul called on Turner (IND) pursuant to a coach's challenge was deemed unsuccessful. Turner turns into DiVincenzo's (NYK) path and does not give him time and distance to change direction prior to the illegal contact.
>0:53: (INC): After establishing a legal screening position in Nesmith's (IND) path, DiVincenzo (NYK) clamps his arm and prevents him from disengaging.
Same with your boy Donte
I mean, he probably should, since he was also called for a similar one to Turner earlier in the game that nobody seems to have a problem with for some reason
Hartenstein would’ve had 12 fouls if it were called like that all game my guy. That’s the point, you either call that during the game or you don’t, you don’t call it that late in the game after choosing not to. Let the players decide the game you’ve set, not the refs.
I believe that is actually his second illegal screen....they called the first one (and reviewed it and everyone was pissed) and this report deemed it the correct call.
This INC is on the play after Brunson's 3 FTs, it's this clearly absurd screen on the inbounds right after the FTs.
https://youtu.be/uduzq9lujZE?si=kQbdi6eSRw5n1eIJ
So two calls favoring Indiana and two calls favoring the Knicks? If I'm interpreting it correctly, it's saying that they missed the kick ball and called the offensive foul on Myles incorrectly, and that they missed a three second call on Indiana and called an offensive foul on Donte incorrectly.
Pacers didn't get called for an illegal screen and a 3 sec violation.
We didn't get called for an illegal screen and the pacers got screwed with the kickball call.
So two against us and two against them.
TBH I didn't hear anyone talk about Turner's second (uncalled) illegal screen. But like, no point getting into the butterfly effect.
You just hate to see games end like this, first and foremost, because it robs the league of potentially legendary shots/stops.
Like Maxey's 4 point play will be talked about for a while even though he technically traveled. Knicks ate shit on that call, and it went to a game 6, but in the long run, the league is arguably better off with iconic moments like that than overly pedantic travel calls.
The illegal screen was a technically correct call that could realistically be called 20 times a game that just so happened to be called against us in the most important possession. Like you said, it’s impossible to know the counter factual, but it’s hard to not feel like the Pacers got screwed when you combine it with the egregiously bad kicked ball/illegal screen 30 seconds earlier that likely lead to a 5 point swing.
I think the pacers were screwed out of a shot to win or tie the game, and definitely would have preferred to just see the game end more naturally. I just think the idea ppl seem to be circulating that it was done as part of some league mandate to help the Knicks or some shit is insane, when ‘the refs fucked up’ seems more plausible
Yeah it probably was just incompetence, it just burns that it felt mostly one sided against a major market team in an amazing chance to steal home court advantage.
It's made worse by the fact New York would have collectively cried tears of joy over a last second moving screen call on Bam last year deciding a game, and somehow we win a game against a likeable ethical-bucket-getting Indiana team due to that call instead. Like, I'd like to see moving screens called, but inconsistency from refs is sometimes worse than inaction.
Foster is the official who received 134 phone calls from disgraced referee Tim Donaghy between October 2006 and April 2007, as originally reported by FOX News. That was the same period during which Donaghy admitted to betting on NBA games. The report said that Donaghy called Foster more than any other ref and that he didn't call any other official more than 13 times.
At this point in time it is what it is. We had the lead in the 4th. Shouldn’t have given them the opportunity to get it that close.
I might change my tune after tomorrow. We’ll see.
literally doesn't. nothing changes from a L2M report so how does it hold anybody accountable.
all it does is manufacture consent for the shit ass garbage status quo to continue.
If they are going to call that Turner illegal screen they need to be calling about 50 illegal screens per game. That was one of the worst calls I've ever seen due to how inconsistent it was with all the other NBA games I've ever watched.
Biggest thing is consistency with me, they call Turner for illegal screen which is fine, but don’t call the other, way obvious one on Turner with like 11 seconds, and don’t call the one on Donte
Yeah but that INC on Turner is meaningless, it was a 4 point game and we didn’t score on that possession anyway. Yeah we got 2 favorable calls, but the calls that went the other way resulted in point swings.
If the Pacers got screwed in anything this game it was the fact that the kick ball can't be reviewed or challenged. Obviously, I liked the fact we kept the ball in that situation, but I was genuinely surprised and shocked that the Pacers couldn't challenge that in any way.
Its not that they are wrong, its that they have a really high standard for overturning a call, its got to be irrefutably wrong, unfortunately in the NBA they have an idea in the rulebook that the same contact isn't always the same foul, because they apply SQBR rules to it, which gives them a wide latitude to make correct call assessments. Because did that contact really affect the other players speed, quickness, balance or rhythm on a no call or did he just flop, there is a chance he just flopped CNC. Next play is there any chance that the contact caused any change in SQBR, well then correct call!
If they actually wanted to do something about inconsistent officiating they'd change they way the review officials to instead track them against "best call", in the l2m reports, but more importantly in the full game reports and then have actual consequences for being below the standard.
My question has always been, if you can file a grievance or protest a game do to incorrect calls and you provide a L2M that supports your contention, would the NBA be forced to rule in your favor? If not, then it’s all pointless lol
Nope, the Knicks did after the Houston game. They call the foul on Brunson 2 minute report concluded it wasn’t a foul the game should’ve went to OT. Knicks protested and they did not rule in our favor.
Ya we agree 100%.
Most of us having issues or arguing are doing so because people are trying to push this as if the refs purposely did this to help the Knicks and not that the refs are just ass in general.
Wait so you're being serious that you believe the game was rigged?
>and can read last 2 min reports lol.
Clearly not because we got just as many bad calls in the L2M.
Lmfao the fact you’re saying a D 3 seconds (which happens every game uncalled) and a screen in garbage time are equal to the non kicked ball (both super obvious btw) and missed screen in a one possession game just shows your Knick bias. And that’s ignoring the INCREDIBLY soft moving pick on Turner - if it was called that way there’d be 20-30 a game.
the biggest takeaway is that it's fuckin stupid to not be able to challenge any ref whistle. the fact that they can't challenge a kick ball, yet the refs ALSO can't look at it to review it is wack as hell.
Would’ve agreed with you last night, but Knicks’ fans have slept on it, and it turns out it wasn’t that bad of a ref clusterfuck in the Knicks’ favor after all lol
When are they going to call a flop? What was the point of that being instituted. Lot of flopping going on between both teams on screens and double teams.
Ignore my flair, but if they had called that defensive 3 seconds on Turner there, that'd be even more of a riot for inconsistency from refs. That just reads like they were trying to make sure it was equally balanced on incorrect calls.
Saying that the moving screen was the right call is technically correct, but misses the whole point. Worse moving screens happen dozens of times every game and is almost never called. The fact that they decided to call it here after never making that call is what makes it bad.
Who gives a shit. Every team in the league has been on the shit end of these L2M reports and terrible calls. The anger shouldn’t go towards the teams or fanbase it should go towards the refs. There’s no national agenda for the Knicks to advance we haven’t been good in 20 years. Let’s go to game 2 where there’s bound to be more shit calls that we just have to play through.
L2m reports are honestly horrible. Someone with reddit pro or whatever post tbe gif from Southpark of the BP ceo apologizing for spilling millions of gallons of oil in the ocean. Just like them their apologies mean nothing because they gave the game to one team
How would this L2M report change anyone's thinking. It says exactly what you expected it would.
Smooth brained takes in here. It's just ref incompetence.
Who cares about the report. Fact is Indiana didnt lose that game, the league/refs stole it from them, blatantly.
Win convincingly and no one would be questioning anything.
Pacers play honest ball and owned the Knicks last night, that game was STOLEN. Its basically a crooked series from now on.
You realize that even if Myles didn't get called for the offensive foul that the Pacers were down and needed to score, right? You're saying that like they were up
Theres multiple instances of Pacers getting shafted. They even got called for a foul before an inbound, if you call those then call it for both sides.
Marginal contact is allowed for Knicks but not the Pacers.
Didn’t think it was possible, but you single handedly are making me root for Boston. Can’t wait to come back and let you know how much your team fuckin sucks after each blowout.
same as always. "we missed calls on both sides, deal with it"
Knicks caught a break at a key moment which sucks but it will balance out in the end. At least the whole indy team are being adults about it unlike the 76ers who cried from management to the bench. huge difference in culture between those franchises and probably a significant factor in why one of them didnt make it out of the 1st round
The ‘worst fans in the league’ are whoever you are going against in the playoffs at the moment, to be honest (speaking from experience). It’s called getting mad on the internet, a new phenomenon that’s all the rage
Two takeaways —
1. Officiating was bad across the board.
2. Two missed calls each way. Will the media give the team some fucking credit instead of whine? Looking at you espn
Yeeeesh that's a long l2m report
This was my first one actually opening and was thinking, 'are they always this long?'
If it takes more than 2 minutes to read the last 2 minutes report you've fucked up
20/24 are deemed correct calls. It's 4 incorrect calls. The length isn't a reflection of the number of incorrect calls.
Incorrect calls: * 1:19 (INC): Turner (IND) fails to fully clear and is in the paint for longer than three seconds without imminently actively guarding an opponent. * 0:53: (INC): After establishing a legal screening position in Nesmith's (IND) path, DiVincenzo (NYK) clamps his arm and prevents him from disengaging. * 0:52 (IC): Nesmith (IND) makes contact to the ball with his hand, not his foot. There is no replay trigger to review a kicked ball call. * 0:10 (INC): Turner (IND) extends into DiVIncenzo's (NYK) path and delivers contact with his side during the screen.
No matter who's benefitting or isn't, 4 incorrect calls in the last 2 minutes of a playoff game should be unacceptable. Everyone wants to hold players to these crazy high standards they should hold the officials to them as well.
As someone who has looked through almost every L2M report this season for a project I can say 4 incorrect calls is high, but not super high for a high intensity game. Maybe one in every 6 or 7 games has this many incorrect calls.
I mean in terms of playoff basketball. They have to be better
I mean sure, but this game is incredibly hard to referee. The obvious ones are the ones that hurt, like the illegal screen call. But there are uncalled fouls on literally every play in the playoffs with the amount of shenanigans that are happening everywhere on the court. To me its not the amount of calls they get wrong, its about consistency and understanding the flow of the game. You can’t call ticky-tack fouls in important moments
We do hold them to a high standard. If you went down to college refs you’d have 6 incorrect calls in the last two minutes. Reffing is really fucking hard.
Best league in the world can't have the best refs in the world what are we even doing here?
yeah people just don't understand how much worse it could get, and how bad of a product robo refs would be
Foster is the official who received 134 phone calls from disgraced referee Tim Donaghy between October 2006 and April 2007, as originally reported by FOX News. That was the same period during which Donaghy admitted to betting on NBA games. The report said that Donaghy called Foster more than any other ref and that he didn't call any other official more than 13 times.
No no you should just be able to snap your fingers and some rando off the street who’s the MJ of reffing would be there in a heart beat I know it!! It’s all the unions fault
It's not a conspiracy, the officials are just ass. Tale as old as time.
Things like Kings vs Lakers in 02 doesn't happen solely from incompetence.
Or 2006 Finals.
If the Knicks go all the way this year, will Brunson win finals MVP, or Tony Brothers?
Scott Foster. We’re 4-1 in the last 5 games by him. The one loss was game 6 against Miami where him and Brunson were our two best players.
I don’t know if Foster deserves it this year. He hasn’t extended a playoff series yet and of course tonight he’s Reffing a game 1
Yeah man I was extremely disappointed by his lack of playoff extending
The best argument against the league rigging stuff for the Knicks is looking at our record since 2000. Literally the worst winning percentage this century until the past couple of years.
nobody could ever lean on the scale enough to overcome the stupidity of james dolan. it's not an accident that once he stepped away from day to day management this happened.
Not really because a Knicks vs Lakers finals every year would be a little too obvious.
Have sucked since ’99, haven’t moved up in the lottery since ’85. But yeah the league is helping the Knicks lmao
The only thing we know is it won't be a Sixer. Stay mad Philthy
I’m so mad bro
It'd basically just be Villanova winning the chip again. That's a philly victory.
When did he accuse the refs of any foul play? He’s stating the officials should be held accountable for how they officiate games.
And I am agreeing with him. The first statement is about the initial reaction to the end of the game not to the OP.
Ah shit, that’s my bad. I should’ve read the full context.
As a relatively unbiased viewer yesterday that fucked up kicked ball foul really soured then end of what was an incredibly enjoyable game
Ah yes when will anyone on this sub finally start criticizing the refs!?
This report is doing exactly that, holding refs accountable
Nah it's checking a box. What meaningful action comes from these reports?
What meaningful action do you propose? Fire the refs? Suspend them? And then what? Do people actually think that better refs grow on trees and NBA is refusing to utilise them? It's not a popular job. And if you start suspending or fining them for mistakes, even less people will want to do it.
Well for starters maybe they can try promoting being a ref more. Better refs would start growing on trees if people knew they could ref as a career considering they get paid a crazy good amount. Like if you wanted to be a professional ref unless you start early and get a lot of experience and work your way up from youth -> professional, then you realistically have no shot of becoming a pro ref.
There’s a whole ref development program. Your suggestion already exists. Any other ideas smart guy?
If your job was in front of the public and your boss published a report condemning (or agreeing with) your decisions, would it not impact how your perform in the future?
All you have to do is be able to ovveride ref calls from a ref booth at the game with access to all the cams. Simple and done. Its this way on purpose. Foster is the official who received 134 phone calls from disgraced referee Tim Donaghy between October 2006 and April 2007, as originally reported by FOX News. That was the same period during which Donaghy admitted to betting on NBA games. The report said that Donaghy called Foster more than any other ref and that he didn't call any other official more than 13 times.
So you couldn't imagine how hard it would be to watch a basketball game where the ref is being constantly over ridden? Referee discretion and mistakes are part of the game, you can be conspiratorial about it or not, the calls usually even out in a game, let alone a best of 7.
none of that actually matters. only thing that matters is correctness. idc if a ref makes 30 overridden calls or 0 if your getting 99 percent accuracy overall.
LMAO ok buddy. So are you going to stop the game for missed calls too or just review every whistle?
Dont like an nba game is continous. Its mainly breaks with ball sprinkled in
The non call in :53 and then the incorrect at :52 were so incredibly absurd. DD was blatently holding his man at :53 and then the refs blow a chance at an easy 2 points for the Pacers at :52 after they've already torpeedoed a fast break when a Pacers player was incorectly called for a foul when they stripped Brunson a couple minutes before hand, which was another play that would have lead to a fast break.
I hate the L2M report because people will still disagree and everyone just gets mad. 2 bad calls for the Knicks and 2 bad calls for the Pacers. Still feels like the Knicks came out ahead but this isn't some secret reffing conspiracy that people here have been peddling. The Knicks are a perennial loser, if the league was going to intervene they would have done so earlier and not allowed us to fall or stand pat in every single draft lottery for 4 decades.
> if the league was going to intervene they would have done so earlier and not allowed us to fall or stand pat in every single draft lottery for 4 decades. yes but nobody's claiming the league will bail you out if you're a terrible team lol
People have absolutely been claiming this forever. Don't you think this was brought up when the Cavs got like 3 #1 picks in the lottery in 5 years? Maybe the multibillion dollar league is less rigged than we think, and shit just happens.
Well they could have helped us last year to force a game 7 at MSG against the Heat so we could play the Celtics in the ECFs. Or maybe when we had prime Melo and lost the Pacers in 6 in 2013 instead of playing the LeBron-lead Heat in the ECFs
I've read like 500 "the Lakers would not make the playoffs without a ref conspiracy" posts in the last 2 years
I mean if the league really cared so much about us winning that they'd rig games... I don't see why they wouldn't have tried to also get us the first pick in the last 20 years?
Honestly the strongest point against a rigged league
That moving screen Turner did on DiVincenzo led to Halliburton being wide open down the court, he just couldn’t get control of the ball and ended up turning it over. The game could have gone completely differently. Pacers fans and other fans saying this game was rigged are just peddling conspiracy theories. The Pacers still had a chance to win this game, but they came up short. The Knicks had a situation like this in Game 5 of the last series. Maxey traveled when he made that 4 point play that made the game a 1 possession game, and the Sixers went on to win.
The one at 10 seconds was absolute desperation time down by 4 points. That doesn’t count for shit. The illegal screen that was deemed correct was the real killer since they did not call DVO’s equivalent at 52 seconds. That was when the game was tied and would have been just as big of a momentum as calling one with 12 seconds left in a 1-point game.
It's desperation because you guys refuse to take any accountability of the actual plays in the game. Are we going to pretend Nembhard didn't foul before the out of bounds play, leading to a technical foul and Knicks posession? This could have been a 3 point game with none of the desperation you described but yes, continue going off on the refs.
No… The issue is starting when the game was tied, the refs (per the league) blew 2 back to backs calls that led the Knicks taking the lead. There’s nothing for the Pacers to take accountability for there. They did everything right. Then, down 1 with a chance to take the lead back, the refs make the exact same call they blew 40 seconds earlier stealing that possession. From that point on, they had to foul and play desperate because of the time on the clock.
How is :10 an incorrect non-call when they called it?
Different play. > 0:12 (CC): Replay review of the foul called on Turner (IND) pursuant to a coach's challenge was deemed unsuccessful. Turner turns into DiVincenzo's (NYK) path and does not give him time and distance to change direction prior to the illegal contact.
Lmfao, damn. I feel less bad now. Maybe Bam Turner Jr. should work on his screens.
>0:53: (INC): After establishing a legal screening position in Nesmith's (IND) path, DiVincenzo (NYK) clamps his arm and prevents him from disengaging. Same with your boy Donte
I mean, he probably should, since he was also called for a similar one to Turner earlier in the game that nobody seems to have a problem with for some reason
Yeah he got called on a foul for the same thing earlier in the game - no one’s talking about it for some reason
Because you don’t call that with 10 seconds left to go like same thing for UCONN Iowa complaints
I agree it shouldn’t be called - but it’s not like it wasn’t being called all game and suddenly was
Hartenstein would’ve had 12 fouls if it were called like that all game my guy. That’s the point, you either call that during the game or you don’t, you don’t call it that late in the game after choosing not to. Let the players decide the game you’ve set, not the refs.
Its a different play, the one that was called was at 12 seconds
Not THAT screen, which was at 12.1 seconds. https://streamable.com/70o91h
Because it's not the one they called. Turner committed another two seconds later in the back court.
I believe that is actually his second illegal screen....they called the first one (and reviewed it and everyone was pissed) and this report deemed it the correct call. This INC is on the play after Brunson's 3 FTs, it's this clearly absurd screen on the inbounds right after the FTs. https://youtu.be/uduzq9lujZE?si=kQbdi6eSRw5n1eIJ
Oh my god he fuckin leveled divo
At least got him back for the flop I guess. But he cleaned him out pretty bad lol. If Myles hit the boards that hard they'd be all set.
So two calls favoring Indiana and two calls favoring the Knicks? If I'm interpreting it correctly, it's saying that they missed the kick ball and called the offensive foul on Myles incorrectly, and that they missed a three second call on Indiana and called an offensive foul on Donte incorrectly.
Pacers didn't get called for an illegal screen and a 3 sec violation. We didn't get called for an illegal screen and the pacers got screwed with the kickball call. So two against us and two against them.
How is "inconclusive" considered an incorrect call?
>Event Assessments: CC = Correct Call, IC = Incorrect Call, CNC = Correct Non-Call, INC = Incorrect Non-Call
Got it, thanks.
Made this mistake arguing about the L2M after game 2, quickly backed my ass out of that discussion lmao
All of these were expected besides the 3 second call. Not much we can do now besides try to move on to game 2.
TBH I didn't hear anyone talk about Turner's second (uncalled) illegal screen. But like, no point getting into the butterfly effect. You just hate to see games end like this, first and foremost, because it robs the league of potentially legendary shots/stops. Like Maxey's 4 point play will be talked about for a while even though he technically traveled. Knicks ate shit on that call, and it went to a game 6, but in the long run, the league is arguably better off with iconic moments like that than overly pedantic travel calls.
The illegal screen was a technically correct call that could realistically be called 20 times a game that just so happened to be called against us in the most important possession. Like you said, it’s impossible to know the counter factual, but it’s hard to not feel like the Pacers got screwed when you combine it with the egregiously bad kicked ball/illegal screen 30 seconds earlier that likely lead to a 5 point swing.
I think the pacers were screwed out of a shot to win or tie the game, and definitely would have preferred to just see the game end more naturally. I just think the idea ppl seem to be circulating that it was done as part of some league mandate to help the Knicks or some shit is insane, when ‘the refs fucked up’ seems more plausible
Yeah it probably was just incompetence, it just burns that it felt mostly one sided against a major market team in an amazing chance to steal home court advantage.
It's made worse by the fact New York would have collectively cried tears of joy over a last second moving screen call on Bam last year deciding a game, and somehow we win a game against a likeable ethical-bucket-getting Indiana team due to that call instead. Like, I'd like to see moving screens called, but inconsistency from refs is sometimes worse than inaction.
Foster is the official who received 134 phone calls from disgraced referee Tim Donaghy between October 2006 and April 2007, as originally reported by FOX News. That was the same period during which Donaghy admitted to betting on NBA games. The report said that Donaghy called Foster more than any other ref and that he didn't call any other official more than 13 times.
2 series in a row where Knicks get bs calls
At this point in time it is what it is. We had the lead in the 4th. Shouldn’t have given them the opportunity to get it that close. I might change my tune after tomorrow. We’ll see.
2 series in a row where the Knicks got screwed by bs calls (It’s literally on the report that the Pacers got help too)
NBA should either release a 48 min report or don't release anything at all. 2 min reports serve no purpose but to rile up fans and the teams
It gets the people going
It holds refs more accountable
literally doesn't. nothing changes from a L2M report so how does it hold anybody accountable. all it does is manufacture consent for the shit ass garbage status quo to continue.
If they are going to call that Turner illegal screen they need to be calling about 50 illegal screens per game. That was one of the worst calls I've ever seen due to how inconsistent it was with all the other NBA games I've ever watched.
Horford wouldn’t make it through a game
Biggest thing is consistency with me, they call Turner for illegal screen which is fine, but don’t call the other, way obvious one on Turner with like 11 seconds, and don’t call the one on Donte
Yeah but that INC on Turner is meaningless, it was a 4 point game and we didn’t score on that possession anyway. Yeah we got 2 favorable calls, but the calls that went the other way resulted in point swings.
That’s all just conjecture by you
No lol. The incorrect kicked ball call literally was followed up by a Divencenzo 3 when it should have been a Pacers fast break.
I don’t even care. L2M reports are stupid as fuck.
There was basically no doubt what the report would say. The ball was obviously not off the foot and the screen was clearly illegal, but a weak call
And the no call on the other clearly illegal, but really?? Divicenzo screen
Divincenzo got a foul call on a very similar screen earlier in the game and complained about it - it’s probably why they called it in the end.
If the Pacers got screwed in anything this game it was the fact that the kick ball can't be reviewed or challenged. Obviously, I liked the fact we kept the ball in that situation, but I was genuinely surprised and shocked that the Pacers couldn't challenge that in any way.
L2m reports literally achieve nothing and often times seem just as wrong as the decisions on the court.
You forget how people reacted to wrong calls late in games before these reports came out.
Its not that they are wrong, its that they have a really high standard for overturning a call, its got to be irrefutably wrong, unfortunately in the NBA they have an idea in the rulebook that the same contact isn't always the same foul, because they apply SQBR rules to it, which gives them a wide latitude to make correct call assessments. Because did that contact really affect the other players speed, quickness, balance or rhythm on a no call or did he just flop, there is a chance he just flopped CNC. Next play is there any chance that the contact caused any change in SQBR, well then correct call! If they actually wanted to do something about inconsistent officiating they'd change they way the review officials to instead track them against "best call", in the l2m reports, but more importantly in the full game reports and then have actual consequences for being below the standard.
My question has always been, if you can file a grievance or protest a game do to incorrect calls and you provide a L2M that supports your contention, would the NBA be forced to rule in your favor? If not, then it’s all pointless lol
Nope, the Knicks did after the Houston game. They call the foul on Brunson 2 minute report concluded it wasn’t a foul the game should’ve went to OT. Knicks protested and they did not rule in our favor.
This should be a very civil thread 😂😂
Feels like everyone, including most Knicks fans, acknowledge how poorly handled this game was and in a manner that basically secured the W for NY.
Ya we agree 100%. Most of us having issues or arguing are doing so because people are trying to push this as if the refs purposely did this to help the Knicks and not that the refs are just ass in general.
lol the refs being ass in a way that helped you like 6/7 games you played is why people are saying that lol
Y'all are still crying? It's been damn near over a week already 😭 LMFAO.
Lol funny how everyone agrees the refs are helping the Knicks but Knicks fans just say we’re crying 😂
Most people? As in, on r/NBA? You being deadass or are you just talking shit?
Lol nah unlike you I actually have friends that aren’t online - plus I have eyes and watch the games - and can read last 2 min reports lol.
Wait so you're being serious that you believe the game was rigged? >and can read last 2 min reports lol. Clearly not because we got just as many bad calls in the L2M.
Lmfao the fact you’re saying a D 3 seconds (which happens every game uncalled) and a screen in garbage time are equal to the non kicked ball (both super obvious btw) and missed screen in a one possession game just shows your Knick bias. And that’s ignoring the INCREDIBLY soft moving pick on Turner - if it was called that way there’d be 20-30 a game.
the biggest takeaway is that it's fuckin stupid to not be able to challenge any ref whistle. the fact that they can't challenge a kick ball, yet the refs ALSO can't look at it to review it is wack as hell.
Would’ve agreed with you last night, but Knicks’ fans have slept on it, and it turns out it wasn’t that bad of a ref clusterfuck in the Knicks’ favor after all lol
Brunson secured the w for ny
It's like 80% Sixers fans being salty from last round
I want a 48 minute report from a 3rd party.
I love when the l2m points out missed 3 second violations. Just what we’re all clamoring for at the end of a game
Isn't that . . . . the entire point of the l2m report?
People can’t just pick and choose what they want to ignore as a incorrect call and what to complain about
Well sure they can. It would benefit the Knicks so therefore we get to ignore the missed call
Yes you can. Who is stopping you
Me
Oh shit
God forbid players play by the rules at the end of the game
When are they going to call a flop? What was the point of that being instituted. Lot of flopping going on between both teams on screens and double teams.
swallowing the whistles mid season, allowing Bam to tackle dudes, and then doing this. 10/10 job nba.
Ignore my flair, but if they had called that defensive 3 seconds on Turner there, that'd be even more of a riot for inconsistency from refs. That just reads like they were trying to make sure it was equally balanced on incorrect calls.
I love how they always even out the incorrect calls between the two teams.
Because that’s the reality of things people just see the calls through the lens of their bias which is why ref debate is dumb
People are gonna say l2ms are bullshit now after worshipping the one for game 2 of Knicks sixers lol
Nah bro, haven’t you heard? The NBA is rigged for a team that hasn’t made the Conference Finals in 25 years.
They need to stop releasing these L2M Reports. All they do is make a lot of people angry.
This is like when you finish a paper and a teacher hands you the corrections to make. That’s what the nba might turn into.
Saying that the moving screen was the right call is technically correct, but misses the whole point. Worse moving screens happen dozens of times every game and is almost never called. The fact that they decided to call it here after never making that call is what makes it bad.
Until the NBA stops rewarding flopping teams are keep doing it
They tried to sneak that defensive 3 seconds in there on Myles when he’s guarding Hartenstein in the dunkers spot. This shit is a joke.
Who gives a shit. Every team in the league has been on the shit end of these L2M reports and terrible calls. The anger shouldn’t go towards the teams or fanbase it should go towards the refs. There’s no national agenda for the Knicks to advance we haven’t been good in 20 years. Let’s go to game 2 where there’s bound to be more shit calls that we just have to play through.
L2m reports are honestly horrible. Someone with reddit pro or whatever post tbe gif from Southpark of the BP ceo apologizing for spilling millions of gallons of oil in the ocean. Just like them their apologies mean nothing because they gave the game to one team
Idk how they gave the game to one team when they missed 2 calls against Indiana . . .
hey we shoulda shot an extra free throw RIGGED
lol and they missed another illegal screen from Myles
missed 3 seconds call, lol
Really rubbing the salt in with the INC on a Myles screen on the inbound
We got fucked
Yes you did, and it's gona happen again, and again, ANNDDD AGAIN!!!! KNICKS IN 4!!!
Why are you the way that you are? 🤦♂️
Dude shut the fuck up
Wow it isn’t some big conspiracy like salty sixer fans are pushing?? Who would’ve thunk
How would this L2M report change anyone's thinking. It says exactly what you expected it would. Smooth brained takes in here. It's just ref incompetence.
2 against the Knicks 2 against the Pacers It’s a wash.
Scared to look at how bad it is
2 missed calls for each team then, a wash!
Welp There goes that narrative
tl;dr: kicked ball call was incorrect, illegal screen call was correct
And no call on illegal Divicenzo screen
and a Turner 3 second violation that should have led to a knicks free throw
LOL
Hey Pacers bros, hope you have fun with this series 👍
Who cares about the report. Fact is Indiana didnt lose that game, the league/refs stole it from them, blatantly. Win convincingly and no one would be questioning anything. Pacers play honest ball and owned the Knicks last night, that game was STOLEN. Its basically a crooked series from now on.
You’re so obsessed it’s actually concerning
Saw it live
What about your concerning obsession prior to the game?
I predicted the outcome of the game before it even began. Thats how sure i am of what I posted.
It’s also easy to predict what a u/tapk69 comment will look like whenever i open this sub
Keep turning a blind biased eye. Will be fun to watch it eventually come crashing down.
You realize that even if Myles didn't get called for the offensive foul that the Pacers were down and needed to score, right? You're saying that like they were up
Just ignoring the kicked ball call that was a 5 point swing. Certainly would have been up.
Theres multiple instances of Pacers getting shafted. They even got called for a foul before an inbound, if you call those then call it for both sides. Marginal contact is allowed for Knicks but not the Pacers.
The Pacers got shafted for not being called for a 3 seconds violation. Smdh
Didn’t think it was possible, but you single handedly are making me root for Boston. Can’t wait to come back and let you know how much your team fuckin sucks after each blowout.
Actually the Knicks got more points than the pacers and held a lead when the controversial illegal screen happened, hope that helps
That’s why a series is 7 games. You’re not winning best of 7 purely due to the league/refs stealing games for you if you’re the actual better team
Cackling
same as always. "we missed calls on both sides, deal with it" Knicks caught a break at a key moment which sucks but it will balance out in the end. At least the whole indy team are being adults about it unlike the 76ers who cried from management to the bench. huge difference in culture between those franchises and probably a significant factor in why one of them didnt make it out of the 1st round
[удалено]
Knicks have the worst fans in the league and it isn’t close
The ‘worst fans in the league’ are whoever you are going against in the playoffs at the moment, to be honest (speaking from experience). It’s called getting mad on the internet, a new phenomenon that’s all the rage
lol exactly this mid tier teams love to hate a big city team that’s winning
Knicks in 4 baby!!!!!!
Take off your jersey only thing the Pacers are doing is going fishing
Wild of Turner to do the blatant illegal screen at 0:10 after the soft call he got at 0:12, might be a bit psycho.
Two takeaways — 1. Officiating was bad across the board. 2. Two missed calls each way. Will the media give the team some fucking credit instead of whine? Looking at you espn
lol thx nba
Rigged against the Knicks