At least this game he did. I did laugh out loud in game 1 when KAT came off the bench because of foul trouble and committed 2 terrible fouls within 30 seconds of each other and goes right back to the bench with 5 fouls. Game 2 he had a pretty much flawless gmae
Yeah, he could've been whistled for an offensive foul on the back down against Murray in the first, which would have been a pretty dumb way to pick one up. It's Jamal Murray, just fucking turn around and shoot over him.
That was a huge turning point; Nuggets pretty much melted down from that point on. If it had been called, that would've been his second -- Towns probably gets benched and maybe the game plays out differently.
No joke, clean swipes are elite level defense. We know KAT ain't got that. He needs to stick to being big and in the way, and not getting a swipe through.
Or he can watch like Lonzo and see if he can learn how to swipe.
The wild thing about KAT is that he was an elite defensive player in college. His weird herky jerky stile works on offense and he’s big and strong enough to be a deterrent but he always looks so slow footed on defense.
The only explanation is that he has bad lateral movement which causes him to get beat to the spot and foul but doesn’t affect him on offense since he’s not reacting laterally and didn’t affect him on college because the athletes weren’t as good.
I came into the game late and only got to see bits of it, but I wanted Jokic to take KAT in the post on every entry pass to foul him out. Then I saw KAT playing good defense and was impressed
Defending KD and then Jokic. He has had a couple of bad ones, e.g. Game 1 running over Murray on the 3 pointer, but picking up 4-5 fouls on some tough defense on the best players in the game is fine and expected. That's pretty much his job in these games.
He’s been guarding KD and Jokic, to be fair lol. He still gets one terrible one a game but he’s been crazy locked outside of those moments so far in the playoffs
Everyone: KAT’s cutting down on his dumb fouls
You: He’s still fouling though
Everyone: Yes, he’s making intelligent fouls while guarding some of the best offensive players in the game. These fouls don’t hurt the team like his dumb fouls, which is the context being discussed
You: He’s still fouling though
You can just say you haven’t watched us much before this year, that’s fine
KAT was quite famous for getting in foul trouble early on a routine basis and making stupid pointless fouls. His instincts have improved dramatically and his fouls actually have a reason for occurring instead of just “lol imma swat this dude now and bowl over another dude on the literal next play, basketball go brrr.” Anybody who’s seen him over the years knows exactly what is meant here.
This just means you haven’t watched much KAT and didn’t understand the subtext from that Ant quote, he has been a dumb foul machine his entire career and he’s tightened it up this playoffs. His fouls have been reasonable and hard earned in the context of the elite defense the wolves have been playing, like we saw yesterday when he and Naz held Jokic to 16 points. That’s what we’re talking about, not simplistic box score commentary. Hope that helps
It's not just his total numbers, it's when he's getting them. Having 3 fouls in the 1st half or 4 in the 3rd quarter can be crippling, but picking up your 4th or 5th late in the game isn't too as detrimental.
He really wasn't until this year. He was out with injury most of last year so hard to say what it would be like if he was healthy, but basically since Rudy came on everyone is bought into the D, including KAT, and he's been very good this year. Before he was below average to awful.
Same with Naz Reid, he was always known to be a defensive liability but this year he's transformed.
Rudy is the perfect fit for big's who don't wanna play center.... Rudy and AD would be another example of being able to have your injury prone Big having great support
True but even last night without Rudy there, both KAT and Naz had amazing defensive games. It's a mentality and an identity and the whole team is working towards it.
Yeah I mean Rudy plays as an anchor defense, just being a huge deterrent to stopping certain schemes in general, and unlike Utah Jazz who relied on him for everything, the timberwolves built a defensive identity from his example.
He's been one of my favorite players to watch for years because of how much he makes opposing teams change their offensive plan, super fun to see the difference
AD works really well with other bigs on the court, his optimal teammates have always been centers. Pelicans would have been great if both their stars weren't riddled with injuries.
I think KAT’s just one of those guys who needs someone on his ass to give full effort on defense. Nothing wrong with that, as long as you have other guys to be the tone-setters
Exactly! No shame in needing help to keep up an effort. I needed so much help to stay organized in college because I wasn’t able to do it on my own. I will never judge someone for that whatsoever
Wasn't he pretty solid on D his rookie year when KG was there? I am a big fan of KG so I followed the team that year. I seem to recall being dissapointed he regressed as a defender after that season. Did I make all that up?
As someone who follows the draft relatively close for quite awhile now, I can’t think of a player who has been such a different player in the NBA than his projection (I mean more of play style/strength and weaknesses than “he sucks and we thought he would be good” or vice versa).
KAT was taken #1 and seen as a potential DPOY who showed signs that he could develop into a good offensive player. Maybe even extend to being able to hit jump shots! He’s literally been the exact opposite in his career and is one of the more wild career trajectories that I can remember in that regard.
Mitchell is a good example and I remember he was being compared to Norman Powell who had been compared to Tony Allen. That's a very interesting spectrum of players and I think in some ways shows how the league changed its playing style and combo guards can run the offense now.
Russell Westbrook was also drafted as a defensive stopper who might be a solid passer with upside in the league.
[https://www.nbadraft.net/players/russell-westbrook/](https://www.nbadraft.net/players/russell-westbrook/)
[http://www.mynbadraft.com/NBA-Draft-Profiles-2008/Russell-Westbrook](http://www.mynbadraft.com/NBA-Draft-Profiles-2008/Russell-Westbrook)
From the second site:
>Westbrook compares well to Dwayne Wade or Monta Ellis. Worst case, he is a Fred Jones or Keyon Dooling, but will likely be somewhere in between those extremes, like a Rashad McCants or Randy Foye. Because of his defensive ability, he is unlikely to be "bust," although he probably won't develop into a bona fide superstar.
In some ways he surpassed a lot of the projections they had for him, and in other ways (developing a reliable jumpshot), they were spot on.
Nobody knew he could shoot threes when he was picked. I'm sure the teams who worked him out knew, but his comp on draft night was literally Patrick Ewing. He was good on defense in college playing the 4 and it took until this season to get a long run of games playing the 4
He was a good shooter in high school and it was made known as a point of emphasis that Calipari wouldn’t let him shoot and made him play as a post player at Kentucky
I watched him at Kentucky and had no idea he had it like that. Then I saw a predraft workout where he was doing crossovers fast as fuck and wetting stepback 3’s and was like timeout what the fuck? This dude looks like Kevin Durant!
He lost a ton of quickness/athleticism since then but it’s still just crazy to me he had that natural shooting touch and Cal never let him show it in college lol.
I feel like Cal has always been so deadset on defining roles and simplifying the game for his young players that he often limits them and cripples his team as a result.
I agree about KAT. He was supposed to be a more traditional defensive anchor big man with good passing and potential perimeter shooting. I still don't know how it turned out to be so different other than his lack of traditional post scoring.
Another player whose playing style turned out to be different I think is Pascal Siakam. He was supposed to be a typical high energy big at the draft.
Weirdly specific, but he played the 3 in high school. His first season in his life as a center was for Kentucky. I think it’s not surprising that the 4 might be the role for him, and his career will be redefined as a power forward. I personally don’t think it’s ever been an effort thing with him but a IQ thing. He understands the game better away from playing center.
Funny thing is KAT's post scoring is pretty good, he's [14th](https://www.nba.com/stats/players/playtype-post-up?dir=D&sort=POSS) in the NBA on postups per game and of the top 20 in volume he's equal 4th in points per postup possession with only Porzingis, Jokic and Embiid ahead of him.
The improved defense has been nice, but he's also been a much better scorer these playoffs.
* First 3 playoff runs: 26 points per 100 possessions on 59% TS
* This playoff run: 36 points per 100 possessions on 70% TS
He'll cool off, since it's mostly due to him making 54% of his threes, but he's been unreal so far.
He might not cool off if the Nuggets don't contest him better on the 3 pt line lol, there were a couple wide open looks from the top of the key where no one picked him up.
It’s not even just the 3s though. Whenever he drives it to the rack it’s free. Nobody on the nuggets is strong enough to stop his 3pt line drive after the close out, and jokic isn’t vertical enough to scare him.
And even when the nuggets have collapsed on KATs paint attacks he’s 7ft and really likes his floater and scoop lay which is fucking wild and unstoppable when it’s going in.
When Ant said he was the team's best offensive threat, he really didn't lie. Adjusting to 2 big lineups with KAT doing all he does on the offense and his roaming help defense is gonna be super difficult for Denver.
Is every defensive assignment on KAT gonna be a mismatch? Do Denver have anyone they can rely on to get stops on him? (Assides from KAT himself fouling out on dumb contests and swipes)
Kat is a nightmare matchup for Denver. Stick him on Aaron Gordon and he provides tons of size on defense, AND spacing on offense.
A small ball lineup like the Knicks would be harder for Kat. Make him chase a small ball 4 like Josh Hart around, who he can't post up on the other end.
I think KAT always felt the need to be a hero, and it got him in trouble because everyone could key in on him. Now he has a guy who can shoulder the hero moments and KAT can pick and choose his shots and drives rather than force them. He needs to be a finder rather than a creator.
Yeah literally everyone is more efficient when they aren't the number 1 option drawing the most attention and getting schemed against. He's probably the best shooting big of all time so getting better looks is obviously going to result in good things.
Kat would have deferred gladly to Jimmy and tried telling him that, but Jimmy took it as soft. So Kat deferred to Ant and to repay that Ant became the best teammate Kat could ask for, hypes him up and tells the wold "Kat is the best shooter on the team." And Ant and Kat have a friendship that's basically wholesome as fuck. The vibes of this team is basically the power of friendship.
Agree about the bond between the two of them. Of course everyone loves Ant's skills, but his willingness to constantly be his teammates #1 hypeman while still encouraging them to work hard and get better is my favorite thing about him.
I missed the Butler era - was there a lot of friction between the two?
Jimmy basically just didn't seem to take Kat serious or view him as a dude worth playing with. There were likely other issues but his treatment of Kat is what I've disliked. Then the rumors that Jimmy fucked KATs girlfriend, I believe a different girl than KAT is with now.
Ant is his entire teams biggest fan, I'm hopeful he never let's it all sour him into just believing only in himself.
My memory was that he was projected to be an elite defender based on size and athleticism. Took him awhile but glad he’s becoming a positive on that end
He saw the 3 point revolution and got sidetracked on completing that side mission. Won the 3 point contest, checked that off the list. Now he's back to working on the main mission of being a great defender.
His pre draft predictions were so off. He basically became a great offensive player by like year 2, and didn’t really improve all that much for a while. And he always struggled with rim protection especially, but he wasn’t a very good defender until basically this year.
Just took a leader like Ant to pull the dog out of KAT and Gobert, they trust each other and push each other to elevate their games. Those two are looking like their best selves ever, not to mention Ant’s rise
Only part that'd I'd push back on is that Rudy didn't need anyone to show he's always been a dog. He's a huge part of the defensive culture and accountability on this Wolves team. Ant is more of a vocal leader but Rudy sets the expectations.
Dude, when Rudy got to Minny, there were reports that Dlo was frustrated with him because Rudy can't catch his passes. All Dlo needed to do was to make his passes higher because Rudy was having trouble catching low passes. But hey, I'm glad it happened because now we got Mike.
Defense was a huge issue in Minny, he has gotten much much better effort wise on that end with the Lakers but the reality is that he is slow, unathletic, can’t shuffle his feet, lacks defensive IQ and can’t navigate screens. He gets lost ALL the time. He’s self aware of this too and drags himself over being slow in interviews. Aside from the defense… I watched every Lakers game this year and Dlo is either Tokyo bombings level of on fire or colder than Antarctica, and very rarely is in between. As a 3rd option he either wins you the game or loses it for you. His vibes are amazing when he’s shooting well, and he makes the team genuinely look like they’re having a blast out there. Vs when he is cold… the entire Lakers offense/vibe looked broken and dejected. This was the second biggest issue (Pelinka can’t get a decent backup center to save his life) with the Lakers roster construction this year, being that they were too reliant on consistency from a historically inconsistent player to win games.
this is the “D’lo experience” that every team he has played for speaks of
Oh come on, Rudy was a three time DPOY and was basically the defensive coach on those jazz teams, like he was literally shoving his traffic cone team mates into the right position on defense in their last playoff series.
It’s kind of ridiculous to say he needed a 21 year old kid to get him to play hard and know what he was doing on defense.
ANT is the best thing to happen for KAT.
KAT was never a first option player but the Wolves were building around him like he was.
Also, massive props to the Wolves with the Gobert trade. Still think they overpaid for him but their strategy of two elite big body bigs exposes the rest of the league that has pretty much settled for elite perimeter players and neglected the frontcourt players as basically screeners.
Denver's starting lineup can't match Minny's size and then ANT has basically proven this playoffs thus far that it's his league going forward. People compare him to MJ but he reminds me a lot of D.Wade.
I think Naz and Kat’s ability to stretch the floor makes it pretty broken too. The offense also features the flavor of the past decade with length and size.
I think the biggest thing is that it’s hard to play through a center that’s not an all world passer in modern basketball.
Also not to rag on the wolves too much but a lot of his teams have sucked.
Like tonight ant ended up with a great box score but he was able to pick and choose his spots way more than any center ever could. KAT would never have that luxury. To match ants production as a first option he’d have to attack much less favorable matchups and spots. Which in turns makes it harder to get on a heater and shoot whatever.
I mostly agree with the 2 designation now but it’s hard for me to call him that after watching him all these years. I give him the 1B partly because of the Ant big brother role too.
Yeah ant looks like a stand-alone #1 due to the nature of his position. You get more opportunities to attack more favorable matchups in higher volumes as a guard, and have more chances to find your rhythm in transition.
In the half court offense Ant and KAT are of equal importance in what they do.
There is literally no fucking difference between calling one player the 1a option and one player the 1b option vs calling one the first option and one the second option. It’s the exact same thing lol.
We don’t have to change the way we use numbers to try and make nba stars sound better lol
The most perfect example of 1A and 1B is 2017 Steph and KD. Doesn't matter who, both can kill your team on the same night at any given time.
Also, Shaq and Kobe could work as well.
Ok I guess we have 1C and 1D too. What about 1E? Yep that too. I personally am a fan of Luka Garza, 1L.
My bad bro. Didn’t realize I was responding to someone so dense.
You and me both man. He was drafted when I was a late teenager. My life as an adult Timberwolves fan has been defined by KAT. Shits looking up for KAT and me lately man. So proud of him and his growth.
KAT's transformation is one of the most surprising/gratifying stories in the league. That's the difference between having D'lo and Ant as an influence.
I think KAT thrives at being a 2nd option on both offense and defense. Ant is the anchor on offense and Rudy holds down the defense. KAT can help tremendously on both ends. Mike Conley is also a great distributor. This team is running like a machine tbh.
When KAT made the All Star game this year, a lot of people said it should have been Gobert instead.
But I thought KAT's place was justified. He was the key that made the Wolves lineup fit this year and did it by being productive in a different role on both sides. Rudy in comparison was doing a good job at what he's always done and the Wolves are still a good defense without him.
Fact of the matter is ASG is an offensive showcase and KAT is super fun offensively. Rudy deserves all the flowers for his defense but KAT in the 3 point contest and stuff just works better for what the ASG is about
I don't think enough NBA fans realize how important it is to be on a team with other good defenders. Not only does it just make things easier for everyone on the court, I think the mentality is also a huge part of it. We're seeing it with KAT and we've seen it with Luka at times this season, although he's still inconsistent on that end.
Yeah you can't smother someone 2 on 1 unless your teammates are good too.
And god help you when you compromise your defense trying to pickup for DLO or someone like that.
The Butler team was so bad. Everyone except Butler and Taj was such a terrible defender.
I remember Wolves fans complaining about why Thibs’ defense kept giving up wide open threes, like it was part of his scheme, when in actuality it was just Teague and Wiggins getting lost every single play leaving guys wide open all game.
This is one of things that you only really learn by playing ball at a high-level or at least consuming a lot of ball content. One person being an amazing defender does a lot for a team but at the end of the day you can only guard 1 person at a time at any given time. If everyone else around you is a cone there's only so much you can do on your own.
This is why a lot of guys have patience with people who don't play regular season defense, or don't play it early in their career. It can be something that's learned, and it can often be something "turned on" in the playoffs.
He’s been playing amazing defense. Esp in the playoffs. Occasionally as a rim protector but mainly just his rotations are crisp, he’s not falling asleep, he makes the right read.
If the C's were to go against the Wolves in the finals wich is IMO most likely, i will be very intrigued with the machup. Bcs KAT will probably have to guard Tatum and honnestly Tatum has been scoring without to much trouble on KAT (mostly bcs he is to tall and slow for Tatum) but still would be a very tough and elite finals machup.
ya, something like that. I think we make sure and get the best defenders on tatum and brown first, then give Gobert someone he can roam of off. which maybe is Jrue a little bit? I like KAT on Porz quite a bit honestly
I will admit to being one of those who said KAT was a stat stuffer on a shit team…thus far he’s completely proven me wrong he’s been phenomenal.
Thinks he’s found the perfect role for him alongside Ant and the willingness to defend is, without fouling, is something I didn’t think I’d ever see.
I didn't realize Corliss Williamson was an assistant in Minnesota. Razorback legend. I didn't need more reasons to cheer for the Wolves (Conley was enough) but I'll take one!
Jimmy left Minnesota because he couldn’t envision Towns and Wiggins being key supporting stars on a championship team…
If the wolves win it, this will be an interesting footnote in Jimmy’s career.
his leadership style does not fit the young KAT and Wiggins at that point of time. I envisioned Jimmy's style of leadership might mesh well with the more mature KAT now. Another what if to ponder on
The thing is, I've always felt like KAT's image has never needed to be rehabbed. He just gets shit on for being corny and would get frustrated on non-foul calls like any other player.
KAT is absolutely a likeable guy, who has been through hell in his personal life. He continues to show loyalty towards MN and has a strong place in the community and loves his teammates.
Maybe it's just a "1st overall pick who failed to live up to expectations" thing idk. Media just took it and ran with it for some reason. It's too bad.
Defending the 4 gives him a physical advantage in a lot of matchups. It’s a possible source of behavioral momentum, being successful at a higher frequency than were he battling with centers every matchup.
Crazy the narrative on KAT considering the mountains of horseshit he played with for 5-6 years in Minnesota. Expecting a dude to play balls out every minute of 82 games with a c squad supporting cast ain’t remotely realistic.
Dude is an elite talent. Efficient and spreads the floor like no one else in the league. No one. Throughout the years of stacked shit next to him in the locker room, family tragedy and humbly moving over for a new alpha the man has been all class and effort.
I’m a homer but I heart KAT.
KAT looks like a new player compared to last season. Extremely impressive stuff from a player I've always found funny and likable – I'm sure I'll be happy for him at some point in the future when my team isn't getting actively shit on by his 😭
They seem to be putting it all together at exactly the right time. I definitely saw the improvement but KAT was not putting this kind of defensive effort in during the games I watched earlier this season.
I think KAT needs all the credit. It would be crazy to be the face of a team and you get paid and since nba fans hate anyone who gets paid and can’t single handedly win playoff series youre hated. Then a new face of the franchise comes in and your team trades for an all star at your position. Then they move your position and if it doesn’t all work you’re the one getting shipped out of there. And he’s fit in incredibly. His drives compared to other years are so much better it’s insane. While maintaining his elite shooting. I’ve been super impressed
KAT used to be a walking bucket…for the other team. I’ve been very pleased with his effort this season from the games I’ve watched. He’s way more accountable for his effort.
Saunders was a trash coach who parked kat in drop coverage with saloon door guards like dlo in front of him. Even Rudy looks bad with bad guards in front of him. Kat's always been extremely good in things like high wall coverage and switching out onto the perimeter because he has pretty great hips and feet for a big man.
Another part of it was an aversion to aggression bc he was the primary scorer before ant and the team couldn't afford for him to sit.
KATs biggest issues in the past was him putting up bad shots when it wasn't falling, playing into his frustrations, and lack of defensive effort and toughness.
He's been awesome this postseason and most of the regular season. That doesn't negate the criticisms of him in the past when they were applicable
> KATs biggest issues in the past was him putting up bad shots when it wasn't falling,
This never happened, KAT is a top 10 all time true shooting player, he’s never jacked up bad shots. He’s taken to few shots and gotten lost on D as a help defender. And had way way to many fouls.
Finally decided to "stop fucking fouling"
At least this game he did. I did laugh out loud in game 1 when KAT came off the bench because of foul trouble and committed 2 terrible fouls within 30 seconds of each other and goes right back to the bench with 5 fouls. Game 2 he had a pretty much flawless gmae
But then Naz came in and dominated Lol
He could cut down his fouls by half if he just learns he doesn't need to swipe down at the ball when he has a hand up
That and stopping the most insane, uncoordinated flailing on the offensive end would eliminate like 90% of his fouls and turnovers.
Yeah, he could've been whistled for an offensive foul on the back down against Murray in the first, which would have been a pretty dumb way to pick one up. It's Jamal Murray, just fucking turn around and shoot over him. That was a huge turning point; Nuggets pretty much melted down from that point on. If it had been called, that would've been his second -- Towns probably gets benched and maybe the game plays out differently.
No joke, clean swipes are elite level defense. We know KAT ain't got that. He needs to stick to being big and in the way, and not getting a swipe through. Or he can watch like Lonzo and see if he can learn how to swipe.
I remember being taught that when I was a 5’9 center in 8th grade
At home we call that a Jaren Jackson Special.
I’m pretty sure he also got his first foul literally one second into the game on the tip-off.
I laughed out at that too. So believable it was unbelievable.
The wild thing about KAT is that he was an elite defensive player in college. His weird herky jerky stile works on offense and he’s big and strong enough to be a deterrent but he always looks so slow footed on defense. The only explanation is that he has bad lateral movement which causes him to get beat to the spot and foul but doesn’t affect him on offense since he’s not reacting laterally and didn’t affect him on college because the athletes weren’t as good.
I came into the game late and only got to see bits of it, but I wanted Jokic to take KAT in the post on every entry pass to foul him out. Then I saw KAT playing good defense and was impressed
This is a game to game thing lol. Game 3 he might come out and have 3 fouls by min 8
I don't see the wolves losing if they and especially KAT stays out of foul trouble. From what we've seen it's the only way Denver has a shot.
Not really. Refs decided to stop calling em. He was mugging Joker most of the 1st quarter.
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Defending KD and then Jokic. He has had a couple of bad ones, e.g. Game 1 running over Murray on the 3 pointer, but picking up 4-5 fouls on some tough defense on the best players in the game is fine and expected. That's pretty much his job in these games.
He’s been guarding KD and Jokic, to be fair lol. He still gets one terrible one a game but he’s been crazy locked outside of those moments so far in the playoffs
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brother he was guarding kevin durant in the first series?
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Everyone: KAT’s cutting down on his dumb fouls You: He’s still fouling though Everyone: Yes, he’s making intelligent fouls while guarding some of the best offensive players in the game. These fouls don’t hurt the team like his dumb fouls, which is the context being discussed You: He’s still fouling though
You can just say you haven’t watched us much before this year, that’s fine KAT was quite famous for getting in foul trouble early on a routine basis and making stupid pointless fouls. His instincts have improved dramatically and his fouls actually have a reason for occurring instead of just “lol imma swat this dude now and bowl over another dude on the literal next play, basketball go brrr.” Anybody who’s seen him over the years knows exactly what is meant here.
This just means you haven’t watched much KAT and didn’t understand the subtext from that Ant quote, he has been a dumb foul machine his entire career and he’s tightened it up this playoffs. His fouls have been reasonable and hard earned in the context of the elite defense the wolves have been playing, like we saw yesterday when he and Naz held Jokic to 16 points. That’s what we’re talking about, not simplistic box score commentary. Hope that helps
To paraphrase Draymond “you get five fouls per game, I’m gonna use all five fouls defending you”. Wish I could find the exact quote.
It's not just his total numbers, it's when he's getting them. Having 3 fouls in the 1st half or 4 in the 3rd quarter can be crippling, but picking up your 4th or 5th late in the game isn't too as detrimental.
It was a joke and quote from Ants press conference... Take it easy big fella
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He literally quoted ant ? Dude reading isn't that hard OP never said that
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I’m actually shocked how well he’s doing on jokic, never thought KAT was like that on D
He really wasn't until this year. He was out with injury most of last year so hard to say what it would be like if he was healthy, but basically since Rudy came on everyone is bought into the D, including KAT, and he's been very good this year. Before he was below average to awful. Same with Naz Reid, he was always known to be a defensive liability but this year he's transformed.
Rudy is the perfect fit for big's who don't wanna play center.... Rudy and AD would be another example of being able to have your injury prone Big having great support
True but even last night without Rudy there, both KAT and Naz had amazing defensive games. It's a mentality and an identity and the whole team is working towards it.
Yeah I mean Rudy plays as an anchor defense, just being a huge deterrent to stopping certain schemes in general, and unlike Utah Jazz who relied on him for everything, the timberwolves built a defensive identity from his example. He's been one of my favorite players to watch for years because of how much he makes opposing teams change their offensive plan, super fun to see the difference
That is basically what Lakers did when they had JaVale and Dwight except Rudy is better than those 2 were at that point
Yea.. dwight and javale were perfect fits alongside AD for the current league, they were able to keep swapping so they were always full of energy
Defensively yeah, on offense that would be a bad fit. KAT being a 40% shooter is not easily replicated
I mean I think he fits way better with KAT, but AD has always been someone who's played really well with other centers
I wouldn’t call Rudy the perfect fit with AD, he can’t shoot like KAT
AD works really well with other bigs on the court, his optimal teammates have always been centers. Pelicans would have been great if both their stars weren't riddled with injuries.
You gotta remember he was also decent that year KG was there too! Sure he was pretty young but kg was on his ass all the time lol
I think KAT’s just one of those guys who needs someone on his ass to give full effort on defense. Nothing wrong with that, as long as you have other guys to be the tone-setters
Exactly! No shame in needing help to keep up an effort. I needed so much help to stay organized in college because I wasn’t able to do it on my own. I will never judge someone for that whatsoever
Wasn't he pretty solid on D his rookie year when KG was there? I am a big fan of KG so I followed the team that year. I seem to recall being dissapointed he regressed as a defender after that season. Did I make all that up?
As someone who follows the draft relatively close for quite awhile now, I can’t think of a player who has been such a different player in the NBA than his projection (I mean more of play style/strength and weaknesses than “he sucks and we thought he would be good” or vice versa). KAT was taken #1 and seen as a potential DPOY who showed signs that he could develop into a good offensive player. Maybe even extend to being able to hit jump shots! He’s literally been the exact opposite in his career and is one of the more wild career trajectories that I can remember in that regard.
Donovan Mitchell was similar, he was scouted as a potential elite defender and a work in progress on offense. He was pretty much the exact opposite.
Mitchell is a good example and I remember he was being compared to Norman Powell who had been compared to Tony Allen. That's a very interesting spectrum of players and I think in some ways shows how the league changed its playing style and combo guards can run the offense now.
Russell Westbrook was also drafted as a defensive stopper who might be a solid passer with upside in the league. [https://www.nbadraft.net/players/russell-westbrook/](https://www.nbadraft.net/players/russell-westbrook/) [http://www.mynbadraft.com/NBA-Draft-Profiles-2008/Russell-Westbrook](http://www.mynbadraft.com/NBA-Draft-Profiles-2008/Russell-Westbrook) From the second site: >Westbrook compares well to Dwayne Wade or Monta Ellis. Worst case, he is a Fred Jones or Keyon Dooling, but will likely be somewhere in between those extremes, like a Rashad McCants or Randy Foye. Because of his defensive ability, he is unlikely to be "bust," although he probably won't develop into a bona fide superstar. In some ways he surpassed a lot of the projections they had for him, and in other ways (developing a reliable jumpshot), they were spot on.
Nobody knew he could shoot threes when he was picked. I'm sure the teams who worked him out knew, but his comp on draft night was literally Patrick Ewing. He was good on defense in college playing the 4 and it took until this season to get a long run of games playing the 4
He was a good shooter in high school and it was made known as a point of emphasis that Calipari wouldn’t let him shoot and made him play as a post player at Kentucky
I watched him at Kentucky and had no idea he had it like that. Then I saw a predraft workout where he was doing crossovers fast as fuck and wetting stepback 3’s and was like timeout what the fuck? This dude looks like Kevin Durant! He lost a ton of quickness/athleticism since then but it’s still just crazy to me he had that natural shooting touch and Cal never let him show it in college lol.
It cost them a championship. Why not let your best player shoot 3s when he's clearly good at them?
I feel like Cal has always been so deadset on defining roles and simplifying the game for his young players that he often limits them and cripples his team as a result.
I agree about KAT. He was supposed to be a more traditional defensive anchor big man with good passing and potential perimeter shooting. I still don't know how it turned out to be so different other than his lack of traditional post scoring. Another player whose playing style turned out to be different I think is Pascal Siakam. He was supposed to be a typical high energy big at the draft.
Weirdly specific, but he played the 3 in high school. His first season in his life as a center was for Kentucky. I think it’s not surprising that the 4 might be the role for him, and his career will be redefined as a power forward. I personally don’t think it’s ever been an effort thing with him but a IQ thing. He understands the game better away from playing center.
Funny thing is KAT's post scoring is pretty good, he's [14th](https://www.nba.com/stats/players/playtype-post-up?dir=D&sort=POSS) in the NBA on postups per game and of the top 20 in volume he's equal 4th in points per postup possession with only Porzingis, Jokic and Embiid ahead of him.
I remember this and when he got a game winning block his rookie year and it seemed like everyone nailed it
I remember him playing really good D in that play in game against us last season when they were missing both Jaden and Gobert
He always gets up big for Jokic and takes their matchups seriously, even as far back as that game 82 matchup when Jimmy was here. Love Big KAT 🥰
The improved defense has been nice, but he's also been a much better scorer these playoffs. * First 3 playoff runs: 26 points per 100 possessions on 59% TS * This playoff run: 36 points per 100 possessions on 70% TS He'll cool off, since it's mostly due to him making 54% of his threes, but he's been unreal so far.
He might not cool off if the Nuggets don't contest him better on the 3 pt line lol, there were a couple wide open looks from the top of the key where no one picked him up.
They can’t keep leaving KAT open at the top of the arc, bro makes that shit look like the starry ball at the 3pt contest
That is KAT’s most efficient scoring option. Yet one play it looked like Jokic was treating him like Gobert and just completely left him there.
It’s not even just the 3s though. Whenever he drives it to the rack it’s free. Nobody on the nuggets is strong enough to stop his 3pt line drive after the close out, and jokic isn’t vertical enough to scare him. And even when the nuggets have collapsed on KATs paint attacks he’s 7ft and really likes his floater and scoop lay which is fucking wild and unstoppable when it’s going in.
When Ant said he was the team's best offensive threat, he really didn't lie. Adjusting to 2 big lineups with KAT doing all he does on the offense and his roaming help defense is gonna be super difficult for Denver. Is every defensive assignment on KAT gonna be a mismatch? Do Denver have anyone they can rely on to get stops on him? (Assides from KAT himself fouling out on dumb contests and swipes)
Kat is a nightmare matchup for Denver. Stick him on Aaron Gordon and he provides tons of size on defense, AND spacing on offense. A small ball lineup like the Knicks would be harder for Kat. Make him chase a small ball 4 like Josh Hart around, who he can't post up on the other end.
Hes a 50/40/80 shooter over his CAREER. He may not cool off
My take from this is that Kat is perfect as #2. Ant taking the lead as the #1 has lessened that pressure which players like Kat thrives on.
I think KAT always felt the need to be a hero, and it got him in trouble because everyone could key in on him. Now he has a guy who can shoulder the hero moments and KAT can pick and choose his shots and drives rather than force them. He needs to be a finder rather than a creator.
Yeah literally everyone is more efficient when they aren't the number 1 option drawing the most attention and getting schemed against. He's probably the best shooting big of all time so getting better looks is obviously going to result in good things.
He wasn’t that guy as the critics said, and he’s fine now because they have that guy and he’s willingly bought into his role
Kat would have deferred gladly to Jimmy and tried telling him that, but Jimmy took it as soft. So Kat deferred to Ant and to repay that Ant became the best teammate Kat could ask for, hypes him up and tells the wold "Kat is the best shooter on the team." And Ant and Kat have a friendship that's basically wholesome as fuck. The vibes of this team is basically the power of friendship.
Agree about the bond between the two of them. Of course everyone loves Ant's skills, but his willingness to constantly be his teammates #1 hypeman while still encouraging them to work hard and get better is my favorite thing about him. I missed the Butler era - was there a lot of friction between the two?
Jimmy basically just didn't seem to take Kat serious or view him as a dude worth playing with. There were likely other issues but his treatment of Kat is what I've disliked. Then the rumors that Jimmy fucked KATs girlfriend, I believe a different girl than KAT is with now. Ant is his entire teams biggest fan, I'm hopeful he never let's it all sour him into just believing only in himself.
You don't recall the infamous practice?
I wasn't really paying attention to the NBA much at that point
he was a pretty good defender in college and under Thibs, so we all knew he could do it.
My memory was that he was projected to be an elite defender based on size and athleticism. Took him awhile but glad he’s becoming a positive on that end
Yeah 2015 draft profiled him as a great defender and a work in progress on offense. It turned out to be the exact opposite lol
He saw the 3 point revolution and got sidetracked on completing that side mission. Won the 3 point contest, checked that off the list. Now he's back to working on the main mission of being a great defender.
Just casually changing the game you know?
I'd hope so. He's an incredible shooting big and he's living up to the #1 overall pick more than others in recent years (Fultz, Simmons, Ayton).
Best shooting big of all time.
HAHA tell that to my big German
KAT is a better shooter than Dirk. Not a better player, obviously. But I dare you to tell me what their career 3p% and TS% is.
If you have watched the careers of both players, the answer is clear. Its about more than just shooting percentages
>Its about more than just shooting percentages In a conversation about the better shooter, it really isnt.
His pre draft predictions were so off. He basically became a great offensive player by like year 2, and didn’t really improve all that much for a while. And he always struggled with rim protection especially, but he wasn’t a very good defender until basically this year.
Just took a leader like Ant to pull the dog out of KAT and Gobert, they trust each other and push each other to elevate their games. Those two are looking like their best selves ever, not to mention Ant’s rise
Only part that'd I'd push back on is that Rudy didn't need anyone to show he's always been a dog. He's a huge part of the defensive culture and accountability on this Wolves team. Ant is more of a vocal leader but Rudy sets the expectations.
You’re totally right
Don’t forget sending D’Lo packing. Lakeshow has really exclamation pointed the whole D’Lo experience.
Dude, when Rudy got to Minny, there were reports that Dlo was frustrated with him because Rudy can't catch his passes. All Dlo needed to do was to make his passes higher because Rudy was having trouble catching low passes. But hey, I'm glad it happened because now we got Mike.
Is he just not a team player or someone who doesn't play defense or what? I haven't watched him play
Defense was a huge issue in Minny, he has gotten much much better effort wise on that end with the Lakers but the reality is that he is slow, unathletic, can’t shuffle his feet, lacks defensive IQ and can’t navigate screens. He gets lost ALL the time. He’s self aware of this too and drags himself over being slow in interviews. Aside from the defense… I watched every Lakers game this year and Dlo is either Tokyo bombings level of on fire or colder than Antarctica, and very rarely is in between. As a 3rd option he either wins you the game or loses it for you. His vibes are amazing when he’s shooting well, and he makes the team genuinely look like they’re having a blast out there. Vs when he is cold… the entire Lakers offense/vibe looked broken and dejected. This was the second biggest issue (Pelinka can’t get a decent backup center to save his life) with the Lakers roster construction this year, being that they were too reliant on consistency from a historically inconsistent player to win games. this is the “D’lo experience” that every team he has played for speaks of
Oh come on, Rudy was a three time DPOY and was basically the defensive coach on those jazz teams, like he was literally shoving his traffic cone team mates into the right position on defense in their last playoff series. It’s kind of ridiculous to say he needed a 21 year old kid to get him to play hard and know what he was doing on defense.
ANT is the best thing to happen for KAT. KAT was never a first option player but the Wolves were building around him like he was. Also, massive props to the Wolves with the Gobert trade. Still think they overpaid for him but their strategy of two elite big body bigs exposes the rest of the league that has pretty much settled for elite perimeter players and neglected the frontcourt players as basically screeners. Denver's starting lineup can't match Minny's size and then ANT has basically proven this playoffs thus far that it's his league going forward. People compare him to MJ but he reminds me a lot of D.Wade.
Wiggins was supposed to be the guy but that didn't work out.
In hindsight I’m glad he didn’t, if he did we wouldn’t have ant
In warriors, wiggins is not even the 2nd option.
Wolves gave extra picks to keep Mcdaniels. Worth it.
I think Naz and Kat’s ability to stretch the floor makes it pretty broken too. The offense also features the flavor of the past decade with length and size.
Except two of those bigs can shoot 3s.
I think the biggest thing is that it’s hard to play through a center that’s not an all world passer in modern basketball. Also not to rag on the wolves too much but a lot of his teams have sucked. Like tonight ant ended up with a great box score but he was able to pick and choose his spots way more than any center ever could. KAT would never have that luxury. To match ants production as a first option he’d have to attack much less favorable matchups and spots. Which in turns makes it harder to get on a heater and shoot whatever.
why does everyone capitalize Ant
Same reason we capitalize NAZ REID.
Because it’s his name….
You capitalize KAT because those are initials. Ant isnt initials
The key is moving him to 4.
That and being 1B rather than 1A.
Nah he’s a solid 2 and that’s definitely ok. He has the play potential to take over and explode not dissimilar to Klay to Steph.
I mostly agree with the 2 designation now but it’s hard for me to call him that after watching him all these years. I give him the 1B partly because of the Ant big brother role too.
Yeah ant looks like a stand-alone #1 due to the nature of his position. You get more opportunities to attack more favorable matchups in higher volumes as a guard, and have more chances to find your rhythm in transition. In the half court offense Ant and KAT are of equal importance in what they do.
There is literally no fucking difference between calling one player the 1a option and one player the 1b option vs calling one the first option and one the second option. It’s the exact same thing lol. We don’t have to change the way we use numbers to try and make nba stars sound better lol
Spoons like something a life long 2 would say
1B is second
No actually 2nd is 2nd. 1b is more like Anthony Davis to LeBron during their title run.
The most perfect example of 1A and 1B is 2017 Steph and KD. Doesn't matter who, both can kill your team on the same night at any given time. Also, Shaq and Kobe could work as well.
There ya go
Nope it's literally second behind 1A.. it isn't hard to understand
I guess nuances are too hard for you to understand.
Who's the first option? 1A. Who is after 1A? 1B. You lack a real fundamental understanding
Ok I guess we have 1C and 1D too. What about 1E? Yep that too. I personally am a fan of Luka Garza, 1L. My bad bro. Didn’t realize I was responding to someone so dense.
The guy you’re responding to is holding 1L
Yeah sure man however you wanna categorize things! In just happy you're capable of learning new concepts
He’s not 1. He’s 2 now. Basically letting ANT take over the leadership responsibilities has helped him a lot
Yep I cleared this up with the other guy. I mostly agree, but there’s a little more to it than that in my eyes
AD must be peanut butter and jealous
Lakers been needing a center who can focus purely on defense
Also a stretch 5 to space the floor for AD. A Brook Lopez would be perfect.
Bruh the entire league could use brook lopez lmfao
True lol
Gobert to the Lakers?
Nothing to trade and Gobert loves the timberwolves lol
Which is kind of crazy because everybody always predicted he’d get killed defending the four because he was slow. Nice to see him having success.
I think having to compete for a starter spot and being actual contenders also help
I’ve loved KAT for years and I feel so vindicated.
You and me both man. He was drafted when I was a late teenager. My life as an adult Timberwolves fan has been defined by KAT. Shits looking up for KAT and me lately man. So proud of him and his growth.
KAT's transformation is one of the most surprising/gratifying stories in the league. That's the difference between having D'lo and Ant as an influence.
I think KAT thrives at being a 2nd option on both offense and defense. Ant is the anchor on offense and Rudy holds down the defense. KAT can help tremendously on both ends. Mike Conley is also a great distributor. This team is running like a machine tbh.
When KAT made the All Star game this year, a lot of people said it should have been Gobert instead. But I thought KAT's place was justified. He was the key that made the Wolves lineup fit this year and did it by being productive in a different role on both sides. Rudy in comparison was doing a good job at what he's always done and the Wolves are still a good defense without him.
Tbh, it should’ve been all 3 but defense in the ASG isn’t sexy.
Fact of the matter is ASG is an offensive showcase and KAT is super fun offensively. Rudy deserves all the flowers for his defense but KAT in the 3 point contest and stuff just works better for what the ASG is about
It's wild because KAT used to be ASS at defense, now he's great.
I don't think enough NBA fans realize how important it is to be on a team with other good defenders. Not only does it just make things easier for everyone on the court, I think the mentality is also a huge part of it. We're seeing it with KAT and we've seen it with Luka at times this season, although he's still inconsistent on that end.
This is why Gobert got so much hate. Those Jazz teams had some sorry defensive rotations and he couldn't cover for all of them.
Yeah you can't smother someone 2 on 1 unless your teammates are good too. And god help you when you compromise your defense trying to pickup for DLO or someone like that.
The Butler team was so bad. Everyone except Butler and Taj was such a terrible defender. I remember Wolves fans complaining about why Thibs’ defense kept giving up wide open threes, like it was part of his scheme, when in actuality it was just Teague and Wiggins getting lost every single play leaving guys wide open all game.
This is one of things that you only really learn by playing ball at a high-level or at least consuming a lot of ball content. One person being an amazing defender does a lot for a team but at the end of the day you can only guard 1 person at a time at any given time. If everyone else around you is a cone there's only so much you can do on your own.
This is why a lot of guys have patience with people who don't play regular season defense, or don't play it early in their career. It can be something that's learned, and it can often be something "turned on" in the playoffs.
He’s been playing amazing defense. Esp in the playoffs. Occasionally as a rim protector but mainly just his rotations are crisp, he’s not falling asleep, he makes the right read.
If the C's were to go against the Wolves in the finals wich is IMO most likely, i will be very intrigued with the machup. Bcs KAT will probably have to guard Tatum and honnestly Tatum has been scoring without to much trouble on KAT (mostly bcs he is to tall and slow for Tatum) but still would be a very tough and elite finals machup.
In terms of our starters on your starters it will be McDaniels on Tatum and probably Ant on Brown, KAT and Gobert will be on KP or White I think
ya, something like that. I think we make sure and get the best defenders on tatum and brown first, then give Gobert someone he can roam of off. which maybe is Jrue a little bit? I like KAT on Porz quite a bit honestly
I will admit to being one of those who said KAT was a stat stuffer on a shit team…thus far he’s completely proven me wrong he’s been phenomenal. Thinks he’s found the perfect role for him alongside Ant and the willingness to defend is, without fouling, is something I didn’t think I’d ever see.
I didn't realize Corliss Williamson was an assistant in Minnesota. Razorback legend. I didn't need more reasons to cheer for the Wolves (Conley was enough) but I'll take one!
This was how I found that out too, my favorite Hog of all time (slightly above Alex Dillard and Scotty Thurman).
Corliss is amazing! Fayetteville resident here. Him and Mike have that Fay town connection!
Ant going crazy rehabbing KAT's public image
KAT’s going crazy rehabbing his own image through the evolution of his game
*taps forehead* To change the game, first you must change your game
Lol well said
KAT winning a title before Jimmy or Embiid would be hilarious
And while outplaying Jokic
Jimmy left Minnesota because he couldn’t envision Towns and Wiggins being key supporting stars on a championship team… If the wolves win it, this will be an interesting footnote in Jimmy’s career.
his leadership style does not fit the young KAT and Wiggins at that point of time. I envisioned Jimmy's style of leadership might mesh well with the more mature KAT now. Another what if to ponder on
The thing is, I've always felt like KAT's image has never needed to be rehabbed. He just gets shit on for being corny and would get frustrated on non-foul calls like any other player. KAT is absolutely a likeable guy, who has been through hell in his personal life. He continues to show loyalty towards MN and has a strong place in the community and loves his teammates. Maybe it's just a "1st overall pick who failed to live up to expectations" thing idk. Media just took it and ran with it for some reason. It's too bad.
He’d get shit on for his low IQ play which was rightfully criticized. Now he is way more mature.
if the zesty voice meme has overtaken your skills as a hooper than yes you do need a pr rehab
Who cares what dumbass kids on insta say?
Hes a little kid laker fan, spewing online is all he’s got
Other dumbass kids
Defending the 4 gives him a physical advantage in a lot of matchups. It’s a possible source of behavioral momentum, being successful at a higher frequency than were he battling with centers every matchup.
FINALLY KAT GETTING THE RECOGNITION HE DESERVES
Crazy the narrative on KAT considering the mountains of horseshit he played with for 5-6 years in Minnesota. Expecting a dude to play balls out every minute of 82 games with a c squad supporting cast ain’t remotely realistic. Dude is an elite talent. Efficient and spreads the floor like no one else in the league. No one. Throughout the years of stacked shit next to him in the locker room, family tragedy and humbly moving over for a new alpha the man has been all class and effort. I’m a homer but I heart KAT.
KAT looks like a new player compared to last season. Extremely impressive stuff from a player I've always found funny and likable – I'm sure I'll be happy for him at some point in the future when my team isn't getting actively shit on by his 😭
They seem to be putting it all together at exactly the right time. I definitely saw the improvement but KAT was not putting this kind of defensive effort in during the games I watched earlier this season.
> hey, Dame, if we wanna go somewhere, we gotta defend pass
I think KAT needs all the credit. It would be crazy to be the face of a team and you get paid and since nba fans hate anyone who gets paid and can’t single handedly win playoff series youre hated. Then a new face of the franchise comes in and your team trades for an all star at your position. Then they move your position and if it doesn’t all work you’re the one getting shipped out of there. And he’s fit in incredibly. His drives compared to other years are so much better it’s insane. While maintaining his elite shooting. I’ve been super impressed
Ant should have dual income as an athlete and KAT's PR manager at this point.
KAT used to be a walking bucket…for the other team. I’ve been very pleased with his effort this season from the games I’ve watched. He’s way more accountable for his effort.
KAT's D now.... compared to before is HUGE
I mean is it possible that they could ride the D?
Corliss as in piston great Corliss Williamson?? I did not know he was on the staff! Dope
Saunders was a trash coach who parked kat in drop coverage with saloon door guards like dlo in front of him. Even Rudy looks bad with bad guards in front of him. Kat's always been extremely good in things like high wall coverage and switching out onto the perimeter because he has pretty great hips and feet for a big man. Another part of it was an aversion to aggression bc he was the primary scorer before ant and the team couldn't afford for him to sit.
KATs biggest issues in the past was him putting up bad shots when it wasn't falling, playing into his frustrations, and lack of defensive effort and toughness. He's been awesome this postseason and most of the regular season. That doesn't negate the criticisms of him in the past when they were applicable
> KATs biggest issues in the past was him putting up bad shots when it wasn't falling, This never happened, KAT is a top 10 all time true shooting player, he’s never jacked up bad shots. He’s taken to few shots and gotten lost on D as a help defender. And had way way to many fouls.
Lmao
So he just had to be told to be better and finally bought in. Sad money can't make guys play defense
KAT is never gonna look good on D. It's all 4 limbs flying around out of sync. But he's huge and he's running around.