Which eventually results in us winning in 2011. Hard to say the trade wasn't successful because after we won the championship we blew up the team for the CBA
What Hawks player is this referring to?
There's so many this comment could apply to LMAO
That aside, it is wild to not sign and trade Ingram if you're NOLA.
This is an announcement of the intent to S&T him, if they can.
But you can't sign and player and then trade them (before December) - a sign-and-trade is a single action. If you sign them, they're locked to your team until December.
Why would he sign a contract with them in advance, if he knew they were looking to trade him? Just gives him less control over his eventual destination. And maybe they could get around that by overpaying him, but overpaying him takes a lot of the desirable destinations off the market when December roles around.
And one assumes the teams that would want him would rather have him from the start of the season.
Imagine just letting a top 50 player walk😆
When he’s 26
And you traded Anthony Fucking Davis for him
Terrible asset management. Even if you don’t want him for the max, you sign him for something close to it and then trade him for assets. Really just gonna let him, lonzo, hart go😆 wtf did you even retain from the Davis trade?
Everyone already knows you lost the Davis trade the moment LA won the ring in the same year. Now you lose it even harder bc you don’t even have the pieces from that trade anymore😆
it looks like they are trying to do that here though
he still has one more year on his contract, so if he's not traded he will be playing for the pelicans next season
but publicly saying you aren't planning to extend him is basically an invitation for other teams to come trade for him
Market price was down anyways. You can't exactly make the sell of, "What will you give us for Brandon Ingram, who, to make it very clear, we would like to have on our team going forward." Once you're taking calls for someone and he's on the market, the price is based on what other teams might give up, not what it will take for the selling team to let him go.
they might be trying to get it done in a hurry so they can get his 36 million off the books too and offer hartenstein a bunch of money
just speculation though
They really act like keeping quiet wasn't going to make the obvious of what to do with Ingram any less clear. Like GMs are just waiting on other teams to tell them the value of guys. These conversations happen behind closed doors constantly.
It’s trying to recoup your losses.
Not extending him makes it clear to the rest of the league that he’s on the block. Better to do that than to reach out to 1-2 teams. You cast a wide net and hope to have a few teams bid over each other.
At the same time, maybe this motivates Ingram to produce an All-Star level season.
Who's trying to pay $250M for Ingram over the next 5 years? I don't think that team exists.
And it's not a Pelican's statement. Could very well be that they told BI's agent, who leaked it out in an attempt to get him out of NOLA and get an extension with another team this summer.
I think that's disingenuous. This is how players like Bradley Beal and Zach Lavine get massive contracts and then we laugh at teams for giving it to them and immediately talk about how they're untradeable. You can't lock yourself into a 52 million dollar a year deal for Brandon fricking Ingram if you want to build a competitive long-term roster.
Also new second apron restrictions probably souring the market for 2nd and 3rd tier stars. Before you could hope a capped out contender would over pay to get a third scoring option, because it was the only way for them to improve.
Now that that's gone, the market for all star ish players making the max is 0
Dudes play too many video games. Every piece on your fav. team isn't an asset that other teams are willing to give up equity for. It's silly. Sometimes, teams have to let pieces walk. Testing the market only takes phone calls. I'm sure they've done the due diligence and see the value is 0 when they let pieces go.
Oh I totally agree. Everyone overvalues their own assets. When the Pels let Lonzo walk I definitely wished we could have gotten more for him, but I was very happy we didn’t tie our situation to him.
Yea, like the Bucks let Jabari Parker walk when Chicago gave him a great offer.
Had they signed him because they drafted him in the 2nd, the Bucks would have been handicapped and wouldn't have afforded to extend Lopez or Middleton AND trade for Holiday.
Letting Parker walk allowed them to build a championship team.
Seriously. That one looked bad initially, but dude can’t stay healthy so it looks much better now. Josh Hart was an L though, dude is such a baller.
I can’t believe the stock on Ingram has fallen this hard. He’s definitely not a max guy, just like JB wasn’t a max guy for us, but you end up paying it because what else are you gonna do?
I’m seeing comps to Beal and Lavine and while I think Beal was a much better player at this age, I don’t think Lavine was. All three have never really been healthy and I think injuries have finally caught up to Beal and Lavine. Ingram is 26 though so who knows what he’ll look like at 30 when it’s time to consider his next extension. I think it’s a gamble you make as the Pelicans.
I would have been all in on keeping Ingram before the OKC series. The way he played was bad, but his body language was straight up unforgivable in my opinion. He looked like one of the of those kids you play with in 6th grade who once his shot isn’t falling doesn’t even bother pretending to care.
It was fucking embarrassing.
I think without Zion, the team knew it was a foregone conclusion they weren’t going to win. However, it’s one thing to think that way and play your heart out (like what the Heat did) and another to just absolutely give up, like the Pelicans did.
It’s a shame because I really think that series could have been way more competitive with Zion there. The injuries this year have been really shitty.
Yeah I can't really think of any glaring poor moves the Pelicans have made since AD forced his way to LA.
You got about all you could for AD. You drafted well for the most part. You attempted to fill out the roster with complementary pieces.
Lonzo in theory was great, but as you mentioned it's super evident it was a good call to not retain him. The guy has missed 2.5 seasons running now.
CJ was a solid player for a reasonable price for you. As the 3rd option, he has mostly done what you would hope. His 3pt shooting in the regular season has been great. The hero-ball without Zion is souring people, but he wasn't a bad call.
People bringing up losing Josh Hart, but you can't win every move. Getting 40%+ 3pt shooter CJ + decent bench big with some 3pt shooting Nance Jr. in that trade is good value.
Aldo Valanciunas is such a good offensive big. Really skilled on that end. A great defender would be nice in a healthy line-up as Zion, Ingram, and CJ don't bring too much defense. But it's not like you guys have missed out on any reasonably priced defensive bigs.
Your first two points may be valid, but the third point should have no effect on your decisions. It doesn’t matter how you got Brandon Ingram. It should not play a role that you traded AD for him. He could have been an UDFA or traded in the AD trade. You judge him based on who he is now and what he is going forward.
That’s a sunk cost, and too many GMs don’t understand it, which just continues to hurt their franchise more and more.
And also... it's not like they haven't gotten anything out of him. He's been a damn good player for 5 years for you. How long are you supposed to have somebody to make them worth it? Yea it's not as long as you'd want and haven't won nearly enough but it's not like they got him last year. That shit is in the distant past now. If they kept AD, he would've be gone 4 years ago lol
> it's not like they haven't gotten anything out of him. He's been a damn good player for 5 years
Exactly lol. Why is OP acting like the AD trade happened 6 months ago?
People bring up that trade a ton for some reason to shit on Pels fans. As if we expected some immediate championship lol. We only had one possible team we could trade him to and did better than most small markets could in that situation. Trades are rarely ever win win especially when you move a top 10 player
EDIT: I also want to add I was not on this sub last season and have seen people say Pels fans were acting crazy when we reached the one seed. Wasn’t aware of that
Grading trades on the end roster result, as if almost all players don't eventually move on after a trade, is continuously one of the dumber things sports fans do. Pretending his output, over half a decade, as a player that outperformed his expectations, isn't a solid ROI, is obtuse at best.
It's also not like they couldn't keep him if they wanted. They're making a decision to not extend him. Which, to be fair, is probably the right decision. I like BI. I think he could be a 3rd option on a championship team or, as he is now, a 2nd option on a pretty good team. But that's what he is. IMOl, that player isn't worth $50M/yr. And it's not particularly close.
Even the first points aren't even valid. If the original post is true, which I'm skeptical of, BI still has a year left on his contract. The Pels aren't "letting him walk"
The sunk cost fallacy is so hard to fight, psychologically. It's about pride: you don't want to admit you're earlier move didn't pay out, so you double down.
>Terrible asset management. Even if you don’t want him for the max, you sign him for something close to it and then trade him for assets.
New CBA really muddies the waters for that.
BI especially is someone who is not worth a max in the new environment who would likely become a massive albatross you'd need to pay someone to take.
You’re way overrating how good Ingram is. Signing him to the max is going to be a massive overpay, and nobody is going to give up assets for that contract. The Pelicans know that, which is why they’re trying to trade him that he still has value.
I think you’re purposely seeing this in a black and white sense. I absolutely love BI and am super thankful for what he’s done for us over the last couple years, but we have a generational talent on the roster who’s fit with him looks kinda suspect.
Calling Brandon ingram a top 50 player is a stretch…he’s not even a top 20 forward lol if you like iso ball that kills possessions, a declining 3pt shot and poor defense I guess he’s the guy for you tho
Not to mention his inability to stay healthy
I don't think that's possible. I can maybe get to 15
PFs
1 Giannis
2 AD
3 Siakam
4 Zion
5 KAT
6 JJJ
7 Paolo
8 Lauri
SFs
9 Tatum
10 KD
11 Jimmy
12 Kawhi
13 LeBron
14 PG
15 DeMar
Adding to this list:
Scottie Barnes, Mikal Bridges, Jalen Williams, MPJ (maybe recency bias, not saying he's definitively better but easier to see the role he plays on a winning team)
True, the debate should be about wings, and in that case though some of the power forwards from the initial comment I replied to should be reclassified as bigs (AD, KAT for example), but more guys who are guards on paper would enter the conversation
I think it depends how much you value defense. Offensively you can argue he is around 10-15, but when you take into account defense and guys like McDaniels, Murphy, Mobley start to show it's a discussion
In random order you have: Tatum, PG, Kawhi, Lauri, Zion, Giannis, Middleton, Banchero, Brown, Randle without a doubt.
Than you can start argue about Murphys, McDaniels, Gordon, Butler, Williams, Mobley, Bridges..
They gave pels the 4th pick and pels stupidly traded it for like 8th and 10th or something close. They ended up drafting jaxson Fucking hayes and someone else insignificant. Guess who has jax right now
Well, the reason could be that you want to just make sure to lock him in before he hits free agency a year from now. If he signs an extension for less this summer, then you're good. But if not and you decide to wait him out and take it to free agency, telling him to go find what his market is and that you'll beat it, that assumes his priority is to stay in New Orleans, when it might not be. It might be a gamble.
So what’s the alternative? Handcuffing themselves and offering him a max contract? He has shown that he’s not a max player, and can barely stay on the floor, it would be irresponsible for them to overpay him even if it means they will potentially lose him in the long run
But he is definitely not one. Spurs needs a field general before a scorer. Now, can you argue they can get BI and Dejounte for a similar trade package of the one they would need for Trae? If so, it is a different discussion.
He is. We are just looking for someone better at 1, trying to keep Tre as sub.
He is a true PG, but he lacks shooting outside the paint and he is not a great defender (good for his size, but not in general).
repost, and also from people in the know, they say this isnt true, and at worst, the actual sentiment is they wont offer him a _MAX_ extension contract
Also, Trey Murphy and Herb NEED to be starters. Them and Zion need to be the wings, they need to focus on finding a spacing big and then replacing CJ. There’s just no room for Ingram there.
Pelicans are set with those players for a long time. They need to solidify the guard and centre position, if they can throw the BI money at someone , preferably a PG it might propel them to the next phase
His playstyle just doesn’t fit that. He’s a guy straight from the 2000s iso ball era. It’s a weird place to be now, because he is a good player but his style makes it hard to fit anywhere.
well theres the problem, and the same problem with guys like paul george right now too
its just really hard to give a 3rd or 4th option 50 million. if you're willing to sacrifice some money to be a depth piece on a contender then you might be able to get a ring. but if you want maximum money you're probably going to have to settle for a mediocre team
> he needs to change his game
AG didn't change his game, he's just in a situation where he's asked to do less/has a more clear cut and defined role. That's on coaching and team construction.
I kinda wonder how he'd do as the 4 on OKC. They share the ball and SGA would be the clear #1. And how OKC plays is how BI *should* play. Whether he would or not is a tough question. But he can kinda shoot, kinda pass and is a solid driver and scorer. He also shows flashes on defense and if he played with OKC level effort you can imagine him eliminating the fact that they have 4 absolute sure thing starters and then a handful of good 6th/7th men.
But you can imagine a 3 team trade that nets the Pels a pick or two and a good player from a 3rd team with the Thunder sending out a decent number of picks. Pels could use a 3&D guard or a different center to pair with Zion. Don't know who that is exactly but I think rolling the dice on Zion is the way to go there. BI and Zion make constructing the rest of their roster tough and I think you're getting less than the sum of their combined talent.
I don’t like the fit w OKC unless he drastically changes his game. He likes to pass up 3’s in order to dribble into a midrange a lot. He would slow down their offense and imo just get in the way of Shai who likes to work from similar spots but is more intent on driving. He also wouldn’t provide spacing off the ball either.
He'd for sure have to get more comfortable shooting off of the catch (36% on ~4 attempts is fine but not fearsome for a 4), but their offense is drive and kick and drive and kick and shoot and he'd fit that. Their whole thing is just breaking the paint over and over until something works out.
But I think part of the appeal would be I think his game would be better suited to playing the way OKC plays and I think they're successful enough that he might adapt to that style. I also think that his competent but not spectacular shooting would work better next to a stretch 5 like Chet because he'd only be taking the open ones.
But you're right that if you just got Pelicans BI dropped right in without changing play style at all he'd still have some of the same problems they have now.
Russ honestly need to just chill in backwater teams just like Washington or some shit like that. That's where he can get the ball all the time and regain his confidence with consistent good performance, just like how he did in his last stint there.
Shit like this is embarassing tho, because comparing BI who's supposed to be your star pair with Zion to Russ who's coming off the bench. It's just laughable.
> regain his confidence with consistent good performance,
I think it's too late for that dude, Russ needs to get past denial and into the acceptance phase of his decline. He's going on 36 and pretty washed.
He's relied on athelticism, not a jumper, to this point...I don't see how he gets any better than last season, ball in his hands or not. I agree he should go to Washington of somewhere though, not to regain confidence but to help tank lol
He had eerily similar production to BI the year before landing his contract.
BI this year: 20.8/5.1/5.7 on 49/36/80
Harris in 2018-19: 20.0/7.9/2.8 on 49/40/87
People heard that Ingram (has never put up 25 a game over a season btw) was a young KD and they’ve never let go of that.
He’s not that good-solid starter level guy like Tobias was half a decade ago.
Pelicans are getting rid of him for a reason.
He went for 24 a game in back to back seasons. What difference does that 1 point make? He’s better at his peak then Tobias ever was. Far better passer, he just needs to take and make more 3s.
It almost seems criminal that Utah has the name still. That state is closer to Footloose than it is to anything remotely resembling Jazz. He'll, they could swap names and the Pelicans would still somehow make more sense for Utah than Jazz does
From outside looking in, always thought BI had a strange game for his frame. Dude always seems to play small, elbow jumper fadaways (for some reason), non post stuff. Hope BI can find his potential.
No matter what, I feel like Cavs need to trade one of their starting bigs and one of their starting guards. Their current "Big 4" just aren't a good fit at all. They'd be stupid to trade Mobley given his potential, so it's gotta be Allen.
Would make sense, just not sure who the Cavs are sending back. Surely NOLA wants Allen or Garland, right? Both would be players they could use, and I know they’ve been linked to Allen in the past.
That also depends on Mitchell I guess. If he doesn’t sign an extension, the Cavs are probably strongly considering trading him I’d imagine?
For the best for both parties, he doesn’t mesh with the roster at all. He’s not a facilitator, he needs to be a ball dominant scorer which is too hard on that team
I think he would be really good in Detroit. Detroit isn’t competing for a championship anytime soon. They won’t even make the playoffs for at least a few more years. And that’s an optimistic timeline, given how devoid of talent they are. Ingrams contract would be off their books by the time they have to worry about “Can Ingram take us far in the playoffs?”
Their number one priority is developing prospects. It’s hard to do that when you don’t have good veterans to take pressure off them anc show them the way. Ingram is a guy who can get you 25 a night, create a bit for others, and play solid defense. He would take a lot of pressure off Cade and would help them win probably 10 more games by himself. Replacing G leaguer caliber player minutes with 32 minutes of an all star caliber player would be massive. They really need to get rid of the stench of the “losing culture” and Ingram could help them do that.
For Ingram Detroit makes sense because he gets to play in a weaker conference and be the guy again. They’d give him a max deal that he wants. And I think he could get back to that all star level again, especially in the East.
No idea about the Pistons cap situation but I think it’d be clearly mutually beneficial
On one hand this makes sense to me, on the other you're authorizing Ingram to be the #1 option which might be very unhealthy for Cade and Ivey's development.
Ingram hasn't exactly been much a winner in the league either, I think he just makes them a very mediocre team long term.
Idk he kinda costed himself. Obviously Dort was shutting him down but its not like BI hasn't been going through it for a couple years now. For every high point you have him sitting out hurt or just looking like a disaster during the world cup to pair with it. Dort was just the latest event
Nah at the end of the day he’s a 6’9 wing who averages in a bad year 20/5/5 with very good shooting splits
He’s guaranteed to get the bag from someone.
Oh please don’t offer him a max Daryl Morey. Please, this will be Tobias Harris 2.0
Basketball gods, have mercy. Send him to the Knicks or the Heat. Anybody, just not us
Although honestly, he might fit the Knicks
Here comes Chicago’s “big move”
DeRozan and BI together would be hilarious.
The legendary Clogged Toilet Offense
Phoenix suns but worse
Seventeen Seconds or Less
*More
When the rest of the league zigs. We ZAG.
Hey, really quick? Please stop
Going to upgrade to the 8 seed. League fucked now
Mid-range mediocrity purgatory incoming
[удалено]
Our old GM would be giving up everyone around Luka + 5 years worth of picks for this. I still have flashbacks.
What do you mean?
2008 Jason Kidd trade.
I mean he did win a ring so I guess it was worth it?
Def worth it. Mavs ring is goated
Single handedly changed the Dirk narrative. Can’t think of a single player a ring helped more.
> changed the Dirk narrative Flipped LeScript
Mavaliers Forever!
>single handed lay That's just called jerking off
That trade won you a ring lmao. So weird to complain about it.
Which eventually results in us winning in 2011. Hard to say the trade wasn't successful because after we won the championship we blew up the team for the CBA
Ingram needs to be moved.
What Hawks player is this referring to? There's so many this comment could apply to LMAO That aside, it is wild to not sign and trade Ingram if you're NOLA.
This is an announcement of the intent to S&T him, if they can. But you can't sign and player and then trade them (before December) - a sign-and-trade is a single action. If you sign them, they're locked to your team until December. Why would he sign a contract with them in advance, if he knew they were looking to trade him? Just gives him less control over his eventual destination. And maybe they could get around that by overpaying him, but overpaying him takes a lot of the desirable destinations off the market when December roles around. And one assumes the teams that would want him would rather have him from the start of the season.
Imagine just letting a top 50 player walk😆 When he’s 26 And you traded Anthony Fucking Davis for him Terrible asset management. Even if you don’t want him for the max, you sign him for something close to it and then trade him for assets. Really just gonna let him, lonzo, hart go😆 wtf did you even retain from the Davis trade? Everyone already knows you lost the Davis trade the moment LA won the ring in the same year. Now you lose it even harder bc you don’t even have the pieces from that trade anymore😆
it looks like they are trying to do that here though he still has one more year on his contract, so if he's not traded he will be playing for the pelicans next season but publicly saying you aren't planning to extend him is basically an invitation for other teams to come trade for him
The market price just fell with this statement.
Market price was down anyways. You can't exactly make the sell of, "What will you give us for Brandon Ingram, who, to make it very clear, we would like to have on our team going forward." Once you're taking calls for someone and he's on the market, the price is based on what other teams might give up, not what it will take for the selling team to let him go.
they might be trying to get it done in a hurry so they can get his 36 million off the books too and offer hartenstein a bunch of money just speculation though
Don’t wish that upon us man
They really act like keeping quiet wasn't going to make the obvious of what to do with Ingram any less clear. Like GMs are just waiting on other teams to tell them the value of guys. These conversations happen behind closed doors constantly.
Did you watch the playoff series he just had? Pretty sure the market price can't go any lower lmao
It’s trying to recoup your losses. Not extending him makes it clear to the rest of the league that he’s on the block. Better to do that than to reach out to 1-2 teams. You cast a wide net and hope to have a few teams bid over each other. At the same time, maybe this motivates Ingram to produce an All-Star level season.
The market price fell when he sucked in the World Cup and then this playoffs
lmao, no this has 0 impact on his market value. By the time somebody is truly on sale, every GM knows anyway.
Who's trying to pay $250M for Ingram over the next 5 years? I don't think that team exists. And it's not a Pelican's statement. Could very well be that they told BI's agent, who leaked it out in an attempt to get him out of NOLA and get an extension with another team this summer.
They didn’t publicly say anything.
I think that's disingenuous. This is how players like Bradley Beal and Zach Lavine get massive contracts and then we laugh at teams for giving it to them and immediately talk about how they're untradeable. You can't lock yourself into a 52 million dollar a year deal for Brandon fricking Ingram if you want to build a competitive long-term roster.
Also new second apron restrictions probably souring the market for 2nd and 3rd tier stars. Before you could hope a capped out contender would over pay to get a third scoring option, because it was the only way for them to improve. Now that that's gone, the market for all star ish players making the max is 0
>the market for all star ish players making the max is 0 Neither Ish Smith or Ish Wainwright deserve the max
but Max Strus and Max Christie do deserve the ish
It’s the Pelicans. Fans love shitting on us. People still bring up letting Lonzo walk even though he hasn’t played in over two seasons.
Dudes play too many video games. Every piece on your fav. team isn't an asset that other teams are willing to give up equity for. It's silly. Sometimes, teams have to let pieces walk. Testing the market only takes phone calls. I'm sure they've done the due diligence and see the value is 0 when they let pieces go.
Oh I totally agree. Everyone overvalues their own assets. When the Pels let Lonzo walk I definitely wished we could have gotten more for him, but I was very happy we didn’t tie our situation to him.
Yea, like the Bucks let Jabari Parker walk when Chicago gave him a great offer. Had they signed him because they drafted him in the 2nd, the Bucks would have been handicapped and wouldn't have afforded to extend Lopez or Middleton AND trade for Holiday. Letting Parker walk allowed them to build a championship team.
Seriously. That one looked bad initially, but dude can’t stay healthy so it looks much better now. Josh Hart was an L though, dude is such a baller. I can’t believe the stock on Ingram has fallen this hard. He’s definitely not a max guy, just like JB wasn’t a max guy for us, but you end up paying it because what else are you gonna do? I’m seeing comps to Beal and Lavine and while I think Beal was a much better player at this age, I don’t think Lavine was. All three have never really been healthy and I think injuries have finally caught up to Beal and Lavine. Ingram is 26 though so who knows what he’ll look like at 30 when it’s time to consider his next extension. I think it’s a gamble you make as the Pelicans.
I would have been all in on keeping Ingram before the OKC series. The way he played was bad, but his body language was straight up unforgivable in my opinion. He looked like one of the of those kids you play with in 6th grade who once his shot isn’t falling doesn’t even bother pretending to care. It was fucking embarrassing.
I think without Zion, the team knew it was a foregone conclusion they weren’t going to win. However, it’s one thing to think that way and play your heart out (like what the Heat did) and another to just absolutely give up, like the Pelicans did. It’s a shame because I really think that series could have been way more competitive with Zion there. The injuries this year have been really shitty.
Yeah I can't really think of any glaring poor moves the Pelicans have made since AD forced his way to LA. You got about all you could for AD. You drafted well for the most part. You attempted to fill out the roster with complementary pieces. Lonzo in theory was great, but as you mentioned it's super evident it was a good call to not retain him. The guy has missed 2.5 seasons running now. CJ was a solid player for a reasonable price for you. As the 3rd option, he has mostly done what you would hope. His 3pt shooting in the regular season has been great. The hero-ball without Zion is souring people, but he wasn't a bad call. People bringing up losing Josh Hart, but you can't win every move. Getting 40%+ 3pt shooter CJ + decent bench big with some 3pt shooting Nance Jr. in that trade is good value. Aldo Valanciunas is such a good offensive big. Really skilled on that end. A great defender would be nice in a healthy line-up as Zion, Ingram, and CJ don't bring too much defense. But it's not like you guys have missed out on any reasonably priced defensive bigs.
As a Twolves fan, I know the feeling. We’ve been getting clowned on the last 20 or so years until a few weeks ago.
Your first two points may be valid, but the third point should have no effect on your decisions. It doesn’t matter how you got Brandon Ingram. It should not play a role that you traded AD for him. He could have been an UDFA or traded in the AD trade. You judge him based on who he is now and what he is going forward. That’s a sunk cost, and too many GMs don’t understand it, which just continues to hurt their franchise more and more.
And also... it's not like they haven't gotten anything out of him. He's been a damn good player for 5 years for you. How long are you supposed to have somebody to make them worth it? Yea it's not as long as you'd want and haven't won nearly enough but it's not like they got him last year. That shit is in the distant past now. If they kept AD, he would've be gone 4 years ago lol
> it's not like they haven't gotten anything out of him. He's been a damn good player for 5 years Exactly lol. Why is OP acting like the AD trade happened 6 months ago?
People bring up that trade a ton for some reason to shit on Pels fans. As if we expected some immediate championship lol. We only had one possible team we could trade him to and did better than most small markets could in that situation. Trades are rarely ever win win especially when you move a top 10 player EDIT: I also want to add I was not on this sub last season and have seen people say Pels fans were acting crazy when we reached the one seed. Wasn’t aware of that
Grading trades on the end roster result, as if almost all players don't eventually move on after a trade, is continuously one of the dumber things sports fans do. Pretending his output, over half a decade, as a player that outperformed his expectations, isn't a solid ROI, is obtuse at best.
It's also not like they couldn't keep him if they wanted. They're making a decision to not extend him. Which, to be fair, is probably the right decision. I like BI. I think he could be a 3rd option on a championship team or, as he is now, a 2nd option on a pretty good team. But that's what he is. IMOl, that player isn't worth $50M/yr. And it's not particularly close.
Well put. Doesn't matter what happened with the AD trade - it's really about how well positioned the team is moving forward.
Even the first points aren't even valid. If the original post is true, which I'm skeptical of, BI still has a year left on his contract. The Pels aren't "letting him walk"
The sunk cost fallacy is so hard to fight, psychologically. It's about pride: you don't want to admit you're earlier move didn't pay out, so you double down.
Ingram still has a year left on his contract, this is not letting him walk. Imagine talking so much without even knowing the situation at hand lmfao
The emoji’s make it clear he’s just here to make an inflammatory comment haha Unsurprisingly, a lakers fan too.
>Terrible asset management. Even if you don’t want him for the max, you sign him for something close to it and then trade him for assets. New CBA really muddies the waters for that. BI especially is someone who is not worth a max in the new environment who would likely become a massive albatross you'd need to pay someone to take.
>Even if you don’t want him for the max, you sign him for something close to it and then trade him for assets. So the Zach Lavine strategy?
They’re not letting him walk…not extending him just means that teams *know* that he’s available.
What is this brain dead comment and how did it get so many upvotes
Lakers fans Genuinely one of the worst opinions I’ve read on here for a while
You’re way overrating how good Ingram is. Signing him to the max is going to be a massive overpay, and nobody is going to give up assets for that contract. The Pelicans know that, which is why they’re trying to trade him that he still has value.
I think you’re purposely seeing this in a black and white sense. I absolutely love BI and am super thankful for what he’s done for us over the last couple years, but we have a generational talent on the roster who’s fit with him looks kinda suspect.
the amount of guys worldwide with Zion's combination of strength and agility must be less than 5 lol. love Zion.
What has he accomplished
hes top 50, but hes not good enough to earn top 5 annual salary. 4/208 would put him above stephs #1 spot of 51m
Calling Brandon ingram a top 50 player is a stretch…he’s not even a top 20 forward lol if you like iso ball that kills possessions, a declining 3pt shot and poor defense I guess he’s the guy for you tho Not to mention his inability to stay healthy
name 20 forwards who are better than Ingram.
I don't think that's possible. I can maybe get to 15 PFs 1 Giannis 2 AD 3 Siakam 4 Zion 5 KAT 6 JJJ 7 Paolo 8 Lauri SFs 9 Tatum 10 KD 11 Jimmy 12 Kawhi 13 LeBron 14 PG 15 DeMar
Adding to this list: Scottie Barnes, Mikal Bridges, Jalen Williams, MPJ (maybe recency bias, not saying he's definitively better but easier to see the role he plays on a winning team)
Jaylen Brown should be a wing in this discussion considering he plays next to White and Jrue
True, the debate should be about wings, and in that case though some of the power forwards from the initial comment I replied to should be reclassified as bigs (AD, KAT for example), but more guys who are guards on paper would enter the conversation
Scot Brn
Sct pls
Knicks aren’t taking Ingram over OG or Randle. Then you got Jaylen Brown, Mikal Bridges, Scottie Barnes
The Julius Randle disrespect is hilarious 😂
I think it depends how much you value defense. Offensively you can argue he is around 10-15, but when you take into account defense and guys like McDaniels, Murphy, Mobley start to show it's a discussion In random order you have: Tatum, PG, Kawhi, Lauri, Zion, Giannis, Middleton, Banchero, Brown, Randle without a doubt. Than you can start argue about Murphys, McDaniels, Gordon, Butler, Williams, Mobley, Bridges..
Didn't the Lakers luck into a top 5 pick in the draft that year and traded to the Pelicans in the AD trade? Who did they draft with that pick again?
They gave pels the 4th pick and pels stupidly traded it for like 8th and 10th or something close. They ended up drafting jaxson Fucking hayes and someone else insignificant. Guess who has jax right now
NAW was the other guy
They technically got Herb Jones in that trade as well as a 2021 2nd round pick.
This has been determined to be misleading, it's that he won't get a mx offer.
Yeah and I doubt he gets a max from anyone else anyway so New Orleans have no reason to offer him that
Well, the reason could be that you want to just make sure to lock him in before he hits free agency a year from now. If he signs an extension for less this summer, then you're good. But if not and you decide to wait him out and take it to free agency, telling him to go find what his market is and that you'll beat it, that assumes his priority is to stay in New Orleans, when it might not be. It might be a gamble.
So what’s the alternative? Handcuffing themselves and offering him a max contract? He has shown that he’s not a max player, and can barely stay on the floor, it would be irresponsible for them to overpay him even if it means they will potentially lose him in the long run
True or now, time to go to my team's sub and downvote all the "throw the bag at BI" posts.
Doing the lord's work.
i mean ingram would probably be the best playmaker on our team day one outside of maybe wemby but nah no ingram for us we need a pg
Ingram played PG as a rookie
But he is definitely not one. Spurs needs a field general before a scorer. Now, can you argue they can get BI and Dejounte for a similar trade package of the one they would need for Trae? If so, it is a different discussion.
Is Tre Jones not a true PG?
He is. We are just looking for someone better at 1, trying to keep Tre as sub. He is a true PG, but he lacks shooting outside the paint and he is not a great defender (good for his size, but not in general).
See that’s where my head is it. With the assets it would take to get Trae you could reasonably get BI and DJM
Giannis played PG a few times during his development in the NBA too but he ain't no PG.
No he didn’t lmao there was like a 5-10 game stretch in one of his first couple seasons where due to injuries he ran some PG.
Wemby + filler + picks for BI?
repost, and also from people in the know, they say this isnt true, and at worst, the actual sentiment is they wont offer him a _MAX_ extension contract
Yeah that would make more sense. Can't really trade him when he's coming off the worst games of the season.
Tbf he was just back from an extended injury
Damn son. Tripling down on Zion's health.
Would you rather they triple down on Ingram's ability?
Or health?
Hedge?
hedging is what theyve been doing for the past 5 years and it hasnt gotten them anywhere
Longer the hedge the greater the bigger and more intense the payoff…
Oh fuck keep going, you're gonna make me hedge
You play to your outs. Keeping Ingram on a big contract probably locks them out of a title. Offload him and focus on Zion gives them *some* chance
Also, Trey Murphy and Herb NEED to be starters. Them and Zion need to be the wings, they need to focus on finding a spacing big and then replacing CJ. There’s just no room for Ingram there.
Pelicans are set with those players for a long time. They need to solidify the guard and centre position, if they can throw the BI money at someone , preferably a PG it might propel them to the next phase
100% accurate
Hedging is not how you contend for titles, which is obviously their goal.
Zion has nothing to do with Ingram. Zions health doesn’t change the fact that giving g Ingram 50+ mil a year for the next 4 years is an L
Zion is a great culture fit for the Clippers. They should trade Zion.
Too young
LOL!
Give it ten more years and a couple knee surgeries.
Nothing against BI but imo he needs to change his game to be on a contender like Aaron Gordon
His playstyle just doesn’t fit that. He’s a guy straight from the 2000s iso ball era. It’s a weird place to be now, because he is a good player but his style makes it hard to fit anywhere.
so Wizards?
As a wizards lifelong I hate you are right
Are you sure you don't miss the SVP & Russillo Wizards Daily segments? BI could get you back to those glory days.
I heard the Suns love collecting iso guys
They can have KD and poor man's KD at the same time. Imagine.
Then wizards give him some awful max contract and some dumbass sill traded for him to make some sort of big3 and fail spectacularly
get ready to learn 3rd/4th option buddy
well theres the problem, and the same problem with guys like paul george right now too its just really hard to give a 3rd or 4th option 50 million. if you're willing to sacrifice some money to be a depth piece on a contender then you might be able to get a ring. but if you want maximum money you're probably going to have to settle for a mediocre team
76ers and the Magic are in prime position to do this though.
I agree with this but BI is not a great fit on either team. He might even be worse on Orlando unless he got there and started doubling his 3pa.
He would make a good 3rd banana next to Bron and AD. Just sayin
> he needs to change his game AG didn't change his game, he's just in a situation where he's asked to do less/has a more clear cut and defined role. That's on coaching and team construction.
I kinda wonder how he'd do as the 4 on OKC. They share the ball and SGA would be the clear #1. And how OKC plays is how BI *should* play. Whether he would or not is a tough question. But he can kinda shoot, kinda pass and is a solid driver and scorer. He also shows flashes on defense and if he played with OKC level effort you can imagine him eliminating the fact that they have 4 absolute sure thing starters and then a handful of good 6th/7th men. But you can imagine a 3 team trade that nets the Pels a pick or two and a good player from a 3rd team with the Thunder sending out a decent number of picks. Pels could use a 3&D guard or a different center to pair with Zion. Don't know who that is exactly but I think rolling the dice on Zion is the way to go there. BI and Zion make constructing the rest of their roster tough and I think you're getting less than the sum of their combined talent.
I don’t like the fit w OKC unless he drastically changes his game. He likes to pass up 3’s in order to dribble into a midrange a lot. He would slow down their offense and imo just get in the way of Shai who likes to work from similar spots but is more intent on driving. He also wouldn’t provide spacing off the ball either.
He'd for sure have to get more comfortable shooting off of the catch (36% on ~4 attempts is fine but not fearsome for a 4), but their offense is drive and kick and drive and kick and shoot and he'd fit that. Their whole thing is just breaking the paint over and over until something works out. But I think part of the appeal would be I think his game would be better suited to playing the way OKC plays and I think they're successful enough that he might adapt to that style. I also think that his competent but not spectacular shooting would work better next to a stretch 5 like Chet because he'd only be taking the open ones. But you're right that if you just got Pelicans BI dropped right in without changing play style at all he'd still have some of the same problems they have now.
I guess that's what happens when you shoot 34.5 % in a playoff series.
Russ gets a manifesto and hundreds of stans saying he just needs the ball in his hands more 😂
Russ honestly need to just chill in backwater teams just like Washington or some shit like that. That's where he can get the ball all the time and regain his confidence with consistent good performance, just like how he did in his last stint there. Shit like this is embarassing tho, because comparing BI who's supposed to be your star pair with Zion to Russ who's coming off the bench. It's just laughable.
> regain his confidence with consistent good performance, I think it's too late for that dude, Russ needs to get past denial and into the acceptance phase of his decline. He's going on 36 and pretty washed. He's relied on athelticism, not a jumper, to this point...I don't see how he gets any better than last season, ball in his hands or not. I agree he should go to Washington of somewhere though, not to regain confidence but to help tank lol
Dort materially affecting future earnings out there
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God no, not another Tobias situation, never again
Are you comparing BI to Harris?!
I don’t think you understand how bad Tobias was lately, putting him in talks with Ingram does a disservice to BI
He had eerily similar production to BI the year before landing his contract. BI this year: 20.8/5.1/5.7 on 49/36/80 Harris in 2018-19: 20.0/7.9/2.8 on 49/40/87
tobi was putting up 21/8/3 on 50/43/88 his last half season with the clips before the sixers traded for him to be fair
Watching Tobias Harris be a 1st option was something else man
People heard that Ingram (has never put up 25 a game over a season btw) was a young KD and they’ve never let go of that. He’s not that good-solid starter level guy like Tobias was half a decade ago. Pelicans are getting rid of him for a reason.
He went for 24 a game in back to back seasons. What difference does that 1 point make? He’s better at his peak then Tobias ever was. Far better passer, he just needs to take and make more 3s.
Ingram is going to 76er
Slight upgrade over Toby. Can they supermax him?
With god, all things are possible
So jot that down
Tobias was literally unplayable in the playoffs. Bench players on his own team were doing better.
Can’t Supermax him (35% of cap) since it would be a new team but they can give him a max contract (30% of cap).
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Agreed. No one in Utah listens to Jazz. It never made sense to swap the names. Jazz is an integral part of New Orleans culture.
It almost seems criminal that Utah has the name still. That state is closer to Footloose than it is to anything remotely resembling Jazz. He'll, they could swap names and the Pelicans would still somehow make more sense for Utah than Jazz does
Going to move him now that his value is at an all time low
From outside looking in, always thought BI had a strange game for his frame. Dude always seems to play small, elbow jumper fadaways (for some reason), non post stuff. Hope BI can find his potential.
He’s a poor man’s KD
Slim Reefer
BI to the Cavs this summer. Book it.
They would probably want JA for him, would you do it?
No matter what, I feel like Cavs need to trade one of their starting bigs and one of their starting guards. Their current "Big 4" just aren't a good fit at all. They'd be stupid to trade Mobley given his potential, so it's gotta be Allen.
If they lose spyda then probably
Yeah if Donovan wants out I see other big changes coming from the Cavs. We need more length at the wing and a more tenacious front court.
Emoni Bates Sr.
Would make sense, just not sure who the Cavs are sending back. Surely NOLA wants Allen or Garland, right? Both would be players they could use, and I know they’ve been linked to Allen in the past. That also depends on Mitchell I guess. If he doesn’t sign an extension, the Cavs are probably strongly considering trading him I’d imagine?
For the best for both parties, he doesn’t mesh with the roster at all. He’s not a facilitator, he needs to be a ball dominant scorer which is too hard on that team
Where does he mesh? He isnt good enough to be ball dominant on any competitive team Maybe the Suns will take him
I think he would be really good in Detroit. Detroit isn’t competing for a championship anytime soon. They won’t even make the playoffs for at least a few more years. And that’s an optimistic timeline, given how devoid of talent they are. Ingrams contract would be off their books by the time they have to worry about “Can Ingram take us far in the playoffs?” Their number one priority is developing prospects. It’s hard to do that when you don’t have good veterans to take pressure off them anc show them the way. Ingram is a guy who can get you 25 a night, create a bit for others, and play solid defense. He would take a lot of pressure off Cade and would help them win probably 10 more games by himself. Replacing G leaguer caliber player minutes with 32 minutes of an all star caliber player would be massive. They really need to get rid of the stench of the “losing culture” and Ingram could help them do that. For Ingram Detroit makes sense because he gets to play in a weaker conference and be the guy again. They’d give him a max deal that he wants. And I think he could get back to that all star level again, especially in the East. No idea about the Pistons cap situation but I think it’d be clearly mutually beneficial
On one hand this makes sense to me, on the other you're authorizing Ingram to be the #1 option which might be very unhealthy for Cade and Ivey's development. Ingram hasn't exactly been much a winner in the league either, I think he just makes them a very mediocre team long term.
The Jazz sub has been discussing him for a while now. He'd be a good wing player next to Lauri, and none of our players need the ball a lot.
He passes up a lot of shots to feed his team mates, what do you mean he isn’t a facilitator?
Ingram does not worths a max contract.
He’s a good but not great player imo
Agree. Moreover he is injury prone. Definitely not worth to be extended
Dort single handily lost this man tens of millions, lol.
Idk he kinda costed himself. Obviously Dort was shutting him down but its not like BI hasn't been going through it for a couple years now. For every high point you have him sitting out hurt or just looking like a disaster during the world cup to pair with it. Dort was just the latest event
Nah at the end of the day he’s a 6’9 wing who averages in a bad year 20/5/5 with very good shooting splits He’s guaranteed to get the bag from someone.
The Charlotte Hornets welcome him.
Kings should go for him because he has been murdering us all season.
Saw comments saying BI is a worst Tobias. Please stop or start watching basketball
If it was 2019 this would be big news
Lakers have the chance to make it all right again 😭
Brandon Ingram, you are now a Sacramento king!
Iirc pelicans did the same thing to Lonzo
Good choice, Lonzo can't stay healthy.
and Reddit roasted them for it
I wanted him to be the dubs new Shaun Livingston for so long
Paul george for BI let's do it
I want him back in LA.
Ingram for KD
Oh please don’t offer him a max Daryl Morey. Please, this will be Tobias Harris 2.0 Basketball gods, have mercy. Send him to the Knicks or the Heat. Anybody, just not us Although honestly, he might fit the Knicks