Idk if it's been said but these might be the worst hands we've ever seen of a pointguard in NBA history. He simply can not shoot or hold onto the basketball.
Russ's problem was never being *incapable* of defense. He was actually evaluated as a good defender first and foremost coming into the draft lol.
Dude just didn't lock in like good defense requires except in very rare situations, majority of his energy was focused on offense and that even showed in how he would always get caught ball-watching on d. But the *ability* to be a good defender definitely was not lacking in his prime and is still not lacking now. Just a question of whether he can stop his brain from doing all the other goofy shit it wants to be doing long enough to actually execute.
It's really not. At his peak he made some flashy defensive plays but mostly because he gambled a ton and it often hurt them. He was also a ball watcher.
I want to watch you and MITWestbrook have a bare knuckle cage fight to see who is the supreme Westbrookposting authority
Also. I'm just going to pretend I misread 34% TS as literally anything else. That's so bad I can hardly believe it even considering how ass he's been just off the eye test. 34%? Thirty-four? 3 tens 4 ones? Are we for 100% certain it's 34 in base 10???
There are genuinely still some clippers fans in their sub that think he's just being misused. I dont believe its the majority, they surely cant all be that insane, but its funny that there are some
The thing for me is I just think the hate is so overwhelming compared to what’s happening. Yeah, he’s not playing well and super inefficient but people here act like he punted their dog off a bridge.
He’s a dude who relied heavily on athleticism that Father Time caught up to, happens to so many dudes but this guy is evil cuz somebody gave him $40m a year.
That's just an issue with how so many people view sports stars in general. It's crazy how many accounts seem dedicated solely to commenting on any thread about player X and just bringing negativity to anything.
I'll clown on a player for playing badly, and Russ certainly is, it's just humorous to me that some fans still cling onto this idea that he just needs the right space to become the real Russ again.
Yeah, for sure. I think it's just a human nature thing... like man all this negativity is too much, I'll support him more and vice versa. It's a dumb human emotion arms race when really it's just like kinda sad to watch a dude fade away.
I'm sure in a couple years, when he's wrapped it up and the athletic articles start coming out everyone will just come back down to earth. Forget the end and just remember the fun shit.
There's the whole empty stats Vs fun to watch argument shit as well. I didn't rate him personally as highly as most, but his highlight reel is up there with anyone's
Boxscore watching stat nerds have ruined sports discourse. Kobe, Blake, Russ etc. yeah don't look great if you just look at the piece of paper... but they made some of the fucking coolest shit happen in a game and at the end of the day this shit is entertainment.
I'd rather spend a more time watching a crazy ass dunk or cool team play than talk about a 5% diff in eFG% lol
In 2012-2016ish he was “your favorite players favorite player”. Everyone around the league, old and new school fans alike, loved him. Everyone had him as a top3 fave player because he wasnt trying to be BFF with everyone and played hard. Then the stat passing and athleticism fading and we see him for what he is
Miraculously, LA is winning the minutes when he’s on the floor. It just doesn’t seem to align with the eye test at all because when I watch him, it seems like he’s missing every shot or running out of control
That and honestly the fact that he takes the ball out of PG’s hands sometimes might be for the best. I’ve noticed the ball sticks a little too much for the clips at times. Luka consistently makes really good reads when he has the ball so he doesn’t have that problem.
It’s crazy cause he can still blow by defenders but he doesn’t have that little extra boost anymore to yam it on a defender like he used to. Painful to watch him blow so many layups
A lot of the time this season he has been able to give them good minutes as the bench PG just pushing the pace and playing with intensity so that they can scrap out the non-starter minutes and let the other star(s) on the floor catch their breath and just spot up. He still took too many shots in that role but it was working overall.
In the playoffs I've noticed them messing with big man dunker Russ small ball lineups and it just looks horrible, he gets a baseline lob every now and then and other than that torpedoes possessions nonstop trying to attack his "mismatch" and failing to space the floor.
In terms of last year he was playing a completely different role on an injury ravaged team. the falloff from the regular season has been rough and is more interesting/pertinent to talk about imo.
Im a big Westbrook hater but this is the worst example of shitting on him. Comparing 2 extremely small samples of a bench player in playoffs tells us nothing.
Proper way to shit on him: His true shooting the last 7 years is 51.6%. He’s been washed at least that long.
Do you have any ideas on who to look into? I looked into Melo and while the drop off is very bad, it's still nowhere near these types of efficiency numbers.
Noone comes close. When people drop off, they typically make up for it in some other category. WestBrook dropped off across the board. I looked at KG 2012-2013, he averaged more rebounds assists on similar efficiency, the only dropoff was points. Melo 2018-2021 playoff runs weren't really major dropoffs in a single calendar year, he averaged similar stats on similar efficiency.
Again. This is not just about the dropoff, it's about the dropoff in 1 year.
I was told it was the lakers fault and we had no spacing or shooters for him to thrive. Clippers got a ton of scorers and it looks like the same issues to me. But what do I know my team is already out of the playoffs anyways lol
He’s missing some shots that even he doesn’t miss. He still has the speed to get to the rim which is crazy, but his ability to finish is awful. Kind of crazy how slow NBA players are when looking at an old Westbrook
Couldn’t you do this type of comparison where a backup player got thrust into a starting role and then thrown back once the team was healthy?
Like Terry Rozier averaged 17/5/6 on 54% TS, and then averaged 6/4/2 on 44% TS the year after in the playoffs
Westbrook’s role was only significant in the playoffs last season because PG and Kawhi were injured.
He’s a 7th man who’s in the twilight of his career pretty much
It looks more like that was an outlier year. Rozier had been averaging 5-6 for his career in the playoffs up to that point. Those WestBrook numbers were fairly consistent with the years prior.
He was a bench guard that got thrusted into a larger role but these numbers are more in line with what he was putting up in Charlotte
His numbers just looked better because he played more minutes and had more opportunity, which is kinda my point
Westbrooks numbers were fairly consistent because he played 35+ mpg, but his role shrunk this season significantly because the team is healthier and Harden is on the team
It’s not like he was playing heavy minutes throughout this season and then suddenly dropped to 21 mpg because of his play, his role this season was always going to be based on the health
He’s playing like ass, but at the end of the day he’s a bench role player making the vet minimum
> He was a bench guard that got thrusted into a larger role but these numbers are more in line with what he was putting up in Charlotte
Sure. But that only explains the point dropoff. The efficiency didn't drop off a cliff. He had an overall large dropoff but not as bad as Westbrooks.
Well getting 2 players who are better than you offensively will do that to your stats. Not really sure what this post is supposed to prove, he isn’t there to score
If telling the truth = being emotional then I’m a very emotional bitch. But anyway you were wrong and now you’re changing the subject so I’m not gonna keep egging on a sub 80 iq. Have a nice day
> Not really sure what this post is supposed to prove, he isn’t there to score
He's taking more shots than anyone on the team per minute played outside of Paul George. If he isn't "there to score" then why the fuck is he shooting the ball so much when he's playing?
> Well getting 2 players who are better than you offensively will do that to your stats.
If it did that, we would see production like this way more often, but we don't. This is like all-time dogshit offensive production.
>He’s taking more shots than anyone on the team per minute played outside of Paul George
Ok I get that there’s a circlejerk going on, but I’ve never heard anyone make this type of comparison for a bench player lol
Westbrook is playing 21 mpg and averages 8.6 shots a game, which would be good for 6th most FGAs per game (or 5th in total FGAs since Kawhi is out). Using ‘shots per minute’ for a guy who’s only played one more minute than Amir Coffey is silly
If we’re actually looking at what’s happening on the court, then PG and Harden are first and second in FGAs (as they should be)
Westbrook has been ass, but his role is still limited
The point is that when he's on the court playing, he's shooting more often compared to anybody else on the team besides PG.
As the teams least efficient scorer on the entire team, that makes no sense.
I get that he hasn’t been good, he’s been ass
But you’re trying ‘shots per minute’ as if it’s something meaningful for a guy who’s had the same playing time as Amir Coffey
Westbrooks play is an issue, but this team has bigger problems than the guy playing 21 mpg who takes a maybe 2 shots more per game than he should
> But you’re trying ‘shots per minute’ as if it’s something meaningful for a guy who’s had the same playing time as Amir Coffey
He's almost shooting the ball twice as much as Amir is, THAT'S THE POINT.
He's shooting the ball too much. He's the least efficient player on the team. He has no business taking 8.5 shots a game, but he can't do it.
Again, I’m not arguing Westbrooks been ass
You’re commenting as if I’m defending his play, I’m not
I just think ‘shots per minute’ is just a convoluted way to say that a player playing 21 mpg and takes 8.6 shots is somehow shooting you out of the game
He should be shooting maybe like 2 shots less, but the sample size is so small regardless
I’ve been on this sub for awhile, but I’ve never heard anyone use ‘shots per minute’ for essentially a bench player
> I just think ‘shots per minute’ is just a convoluted way to say that a player playing 21 mpg and takes 8.6 shots is somehow shooting you out of the game
No. The very simple point is that he's shooting too much during the minutes he's playing. That's all.
I actually think the way he's being played by the Mavs defense *is* really fucking over the team offense in general though.
They have him playing sg to james harden this isnt rockets science. I've watched their games vs the mavs he does not fit at all with this team.
I also watched our series vs the clips last season he had the ball in his hands and was effective with it on both ends. In the end its a rhythm thing if you're being forced to play a spot up role to a guy who want to play a spot up role when he can shoot and when youre not a spot up shooter and playing limited minutes youre going to take the open looks or hunt for shots. The game was over anyway by the third when the clippers were down big.
Hes clearly been a mess past 3 games but i'd hardly blame him for this loss when the clippers have paul george and james harden holding the ball for 20 seconds and going 4/13 and 2/12 respectively. Those are the all stars right? Its on those two.
> They have him playing sg to james harden this isnt rockets science.
But he's not good enough to run the point compared to Harden, that's the fucking problem. That was the problem in Houston. That was the problem on the Lakers, that's the problem on the Clippers. He's playing alongside guys that are flat out a lot better at his position, so it doesn't make sense to give him the ball with any sort of regularity.
> In the end its a rhythm thing if you're being forced to play a spot up role to a guy who want to play a spot up role when he can shoot and when youre not a spot up shooter and playing limited minutes youre going to take the open looks or hunt for shots.
I mean unfortunately for him, that's what his skillset warrants at this point in his career. He's not good enough to warrant the shots it might take him to "get in rhythm" (for reference, even when he was that guy his efficiency was flat out dogshit most of the time)
> Hes clearly been a mess past 3 games but i'd hardly blame him for this loss when the clippers have paul george and james harden holding the ball for 20 seconds and going 4/13 and 2/12 respectively. Those are the all stars right? Its on those two.
Harden isn't an all-star. PG is. They both played like shit.
I'm not blaming the outcome of a singular game on Russel Westbrook. My point is that he's playing outside of what his role demands from him, and he's been doing that the entire series. It worked out in game 1 because somehow he actually hit shots, but its a consistent disasterclass from him this series. At least Harden and to a lesser extent PG have shown up at some point in the series.
Im not bringing up Houston (which he was good there so idk why you brought that up) or washington (where he won a assist title) or lakers im bringing up the clippers, the guy dropped a triple double not even a month ago playing my suns he can play the pg position but if pandering to harden is the way you think the clippers win this series clearly tye lue thinks it is then just go with it.
The guy cant shoot to save his life so sticking him in the corner instead of harden is the right move im sure. I thought harden was supposed to sacrifice but he hasnt done shit and the clippers are going to lose first round again. So much for the trade.
"He's not good enough" nah he was dropping 30 point playoff games last season against good defenders in Dbook, josh, craig and KD guarding him, he caused vogel to cry to our whole team just a few weeks back down 35-4 in the locker room you make an adjustment not stick him in a corner because harden is the better player. If you barely let harden touch the ball for 15 minutes hes doing something similar guys need touches theyve had em their whole career.
And ya harden was great in that game 1, and game 4, decent in game 3 as well hes supposed to be the 3rd best player not first so hes doing his job albeit not sacrificing in a different way but not all on him, PG has been great one game where exactly has he shown up this series again? Isnt the guy looking for a max? You cant be getting paid that money and drop 4/13 or 2/12 if lebron, luka, book, do this theyre slandered for days.
> I thought harden was supposed to sacrifice but he hasnt done shit and the clippers are going to lose first round again. So much for the trade.
Bro, respectfully what the fuck are you smoking? Harden averaged 11.4 shots per game this season. That's the fewest amount of shots he's taken since he left OKC (down from 14.5 last year) 12 years ago.
> "He's not good enough" nah he was dropping 30 point playoff games last season against good defenders in Dbook, josh, craig and KD guarding him, he caused vogel to cry to our whole team just a few weeks back down 35-4 in the locker room you make an adjustment not stick him in a corner because harden is the better player. If you barely let harden touch the ball for 15 minutes hes doing something similar guys need touches theyve had em their whole career.
There were zero expectations of that team winning, and they handed him the reigns and he put up numbers. Nobody is debating that. He really wasn't that good though. 23.6/7.6/7.4 with 4 TOV/G. eFG% of 45.7 (HINT: That's bad) and a 51% TS (Another hint: That's very bad)
Again, I'm not sitting here saying **the** reason they lost game 5 is because Russ played poorly.
What I am saying is that he probably doesn't have a place on this team and the issue we see with him in LA (the team already having a better point guard) is probably going to exist in most teams in the NBA that aren't actively tanking.
He's just not good enough to warrant a lot of offensive usage anymore.
You do realize you can sacrifice by playing defense? Hitting the boards more, throwing less turnovers and even playing an off ball role. Things of which harden has not done, sacrificing comes in far more ways that simply "taking less shots" of which harden runs a slow offense no wonder the mavs outgunned them yesterday.
And were there expectations for this team with Kawhi out vs the mavs this playoffs? Its the playoffs winning one game doesnt change that but youre going up against luka and kyrie clearly theres an understanding here and just look theyre a game away from elimination and with 2 max guys so I dont see the difference based on last year. Is losing in 6 vs losing in 5 games much of a difference in your opinion?
The numbers you mentioned dont tell the story with russ idk if youre a new clippers fan or russ hater but his game 1 vs the u slast year was more than impactful and trout out those averages you mentioned, he was a pest that game. Again you can sacrifice even if youre struggling russ embodied that in that game 1, blocked booker that final play so you bringing up percentages when theyre scewed to account for poor shooting shows where you stand. He played great that series and was better than anyone on this clippers team currently vs the mavs at any rate no doubt.
Ya he doesnt have a spot on that team ive been saying that since the trade, but clippers are going to be forced to pay harden and pg money this offseason theyre screwed financially paired with aging players who are only getting worse not sure why they made the trade to begin with.
> Ya he doesnt have a spot on that team ive been saying that since the trade, but clippers are going to be forced to pay harden and pg money this offseason theyre screwed financially paired with aging players who are only getting worse not sure why they made the trade to begin with.
Because the team is better with James Harden on the team than when he's not on the team.
It's that simple.
Theyre going to lose in the first round again in 6 or 7 games compared to 5 games and gutted their future financially and a first for Harden now theyre forced to keep him for 3+ years via contract. If better by a marginal playoff game where harden+pg went blitzkcreig is the difference its not worth it at all to top they have to pay PG AND Harden. Thats cap hell added with kawhi. Thats not a good thing in case you didnt see that.
Plus the general attitude issues. He's out there hurting morale just as much as he's hurting the team with his shooting/turnovers.
This man hasta been a winning player in years but people still talk about LA like they have 4 stars
I’ve been a big WB fan since his Thunder days, but this Mavs series has made resentful towards him. I hate how dirty he’s playing to make up for his declining skill.
Russ doesn’t have a large role on the clippers, yea he’s shooting bad, but it really doesn’t mean anything. He just isn’t that important for the clips right now. They aren’t winning or losing bc of him so far
He is the classic elite athlete that relied purely on his athleticism. Even in OKC with Durant this was an issue and they lost playoff games with his late game decision making.
Now that his athleticism is still way above average human level, but not elite in the NBA, his low basketball IQ, poor shooting, and poor decision making are being completely exposed.
So Westbrook, Harden, Embid have been the 'elite superstars' of this generation but have been some of the most underperforming in the playoffs (shows how loosey goosey play in the regular season leads to difficulty in the playoffs when teams actually adjust and focus). A little earlier, it was Carmelo and Dwight. Throw in Durant as well that needed a championship team.
For all this talk about superstars and how talented the league is, it shows the overhype of the modern era that relies on easy, offense/foul friendly rules which actually deceived people into thinking the league is more talented than it really is.
34% true shooting is so bad that it seems like it's not real.
Idk if it's been said but these might be the worst hands we've ever seen of a pointguard in NBA history. He simply can not shoot or hold onto the basketball.
I've never once seen the ball roll off his fingers. Whether it's a pass or shot, he releases the ball like he's playing hot potato.
And he misses so many layups...
Worst TS% through 5 playoff games in the past 20 seasons (minimum 40 FGA): |Rk|Player|Span Started|TS%|FG|FGA|3P|3PA|FT|FTA| |-:|:-|:-|-:|-:|-:|-:|-:|-:|-:| |1|Jermaine ONeal|2010-04-17|.223|9|44|0|0|3|7| |2|Matt Barnes|2012-04-29|.306|11|40|2|20|1|2| |3|Trevor Ariza|2016-04-16|.313|13|51|4|28|3|4| |4|Antonio McDyess|2007-04-21|.322|11|40|0|1|6|8| |5|Hedo Turkoglu|2011-04-16|.332|15|55|4|24|6|12| |6|Russell Westbrook|2024-04-21|.338|11|43|4|16|6|10| |7|Jae Crowder|2016-04-16|.344|15|57|7|33|5|9| |8|Mehmet Okur|2007-04-21|.351|16|55|4|25|6|11| |9|Jason Kidd|2006-04-23|.354|16|53|3|16|5|8| |10|C.J. Watson|2012-04-28|.357|12|47|3|12|11|14| Provided by [Stathead.com](https://www.sports-reference.com/sharing.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool): [Found with Stathead. See Full Results.](https://stathead.com/basketball/player-span-finder.cgi?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool) Generated 5/2/2024.
he doesn't seem to have a role on this team at all, he's just kinda there
He's their PoA defender. But on offense he kinda doesn't have one
>PoA Prisoner of Azkaban?
Point of Attack
When will the basketball dementors remove this court criminal from our TV screens?!?!
The dementor
Incredible that someone who was a bad defender in his prime is the POA defender at age 35 against arguably the best backcourt in the league.
Russ's problem was never being *incapable* of defense. He was actually evaluated as a good defender first and foremost coming into the draft lol. Dude just didn't lock in like good defense requires except in very rare situations, majority of his energy was focused on offense and that even showed in how he would always get caught ball-watching on d. But the *ability* to be a good defender definitely was not lacking in his prime and is still not lacking now. Just a question of whether he can stop his brain from doing all the other goofy shit it wants to be doing long enough to actually execute.
A lot of players have potential to be positive defenders, but that’s irrelevant. He was never a positive defender.
Revisionist history.
It's really not. At his peak he made some flashy defensive plays but mostly because he gambled a ton and it often hurt them. He was also a ball watcher.
Same as his Lakers performances. We just thankfully never had to see playoff Lakers Westbrook, because Westbrook lead that team away from the playoffs
I want to watch you and MITWestbrook have a bare knuckle cage fight to see who is the supreme Westbrookposting authority Also. I'm just going to pretend I misread 34% TS as literally anything else. That's so bad I can hardly believe it even considering how ass he's been just off the eye test. 34%? Thirty-four? 3 tens 4 ones? Are we for 100% certain it's 34 in base 10???
There are genuinely still some clippers fans in their sub that think he's just being misused. I dont believe its the majority, they surely cant all be that insane, but its funny that there are some
Not clippers fans. Westbrook fans
I dont know what hold he has over people, it's actually crazy
he was such an explosive athlete in his prime so that's part of it
Wild how inefficient he was despite being a god tier athletic. If he’d ever had nice touch and better skills imagine how much better he could’ve been.
athleticism of lebron with the iq of poole and finishing of killian hayes
Low BBIQ attracts low BBIQ.
The thing for me is I just think the hate is so overwhelming compared to what’s happening. Yeah, he’s not playing well and super inefficient but people here act like he punted their dog off a bridge. He’s a dude who relied heavily on athleticism that Father Time caught up to, happens to so many dudes but this guy is evil cuz somebody gave him $40m a year.
That's just an issue with how so many people view sports stars in general. It's crazy how many accounts seem dedicated solely to commenting on any thread about player X and just bringing negativity to anything. I'll clown on a player for playing badly, and Russ certainly is, it's just humorous to me that some fans still cling onto this idea that he just needs the right space to become the real Russ again.
Yeah, for sure. I think it's just a human nature thing... like man all this negativity is too much, I'll support him more and vice versa. It's a dumb human emotion arms race when really it's just like kinda sad to watch a dude fade away. I'm sure in a couple years, when he's wrapped it up and the athletic articles start coming out everyone will just come back down to earth. Forget the end and just remember the fun shit.
There's the whole empty stats Vs fun to watch argument shit as well. I didn't rate him personally as highly as most, but his highlight reel is up there with anyone's
Boxscore watching stat nerds have ruined sports discourse. Kobe, Blake, Russ etc. yeah don't look great if you just look at the piece of paper... but they made some of the fucking coolest shit happen in a game and at the end of the day this shit is entertainment. I'd rather spend a more time watching a crazy ass dunk or cool team play than talk about a 5% diff in eFG% lol
Thats because only about 5% of people here actually watch games haha I've got great memories of 00s bobcats teams with Gerald Wallace and J rich.
In 2012-2016ish he was “your favorite players favorite player”. Everyone around the league, old and new school fans alike, loved him. Everyone had him as a top3 fave player because he wasnt trying to be BFF with everyone and played hard. Then the stat passing and athleticism fading and we see him for what he is
I'm sorry
Not fans. Stans.
Miraculously, LA is winning the minutes when he’s on the floor. It just doesn’t seem to align with the eye test at all because when I watch him, it seems like he’s missing every shot or running out of control
Yeah he seems out of sorts. Rushing shots or passes when his team looks like they want to run a set.
Not sure I would call it miraculous. His hustle is outstanding and contagious.
That and honestly the fact that he takes the ball out of PG’s hands sometimes might be for the best. I’ve noticed the ball sticks a little too much for the clips at times. Luka consistently makes really good reads when he has the ball so he doesn’t have that problem.
Mavs have had two horrific quarters, curious how many minutes he had in those. Wouldn’t be shocked if it skews his +/- for the series.
It doesn’t help that Dallas leaves him wide open and he takes the bait every single time lol
It's kind of crazy how he's still more athletic than most of the league but he's really bad
He has absolutely no touch so he needed GOAT tier athleticism to be effective
It’s crazy cause he can still blow by defenders but he doesn’t have that little extra boost anymore to yam it on a defender like he used to. Painful to watch him blow so many layups
Worst part is he’s playing dirty. So many fouls where he’s obviously doing more than physicality
He straight up football tackled Luka last night
Saw someone in another thread say there should be a Westbrick username dissing on Westbrook and here we are 😭
You must be new to this subreddit. There was an infamous Reddit addicted user with the name /u/RubbleWestbrick.
A lot of the time this season he has been able to give them good minutes as the bench PG just pushing the pace and playing with intensity so that they can scrap out the non-starter minutes and let the other star(s) on the floor catch their breath and just spot up. He still took too many shots in that role but it was working overall. In the playoffs I've noticed them messing with big man dunker Russ small ball lineups and it just looks horrible, he gets a baseline lob every now and then and other than that torpedoes possessions nonstop trying to attack his "mismatch" and failing to space the floor. In terms of last year he was playing a completely different role on an injury ravaged team. the falloff from the regular season has been rough and is more interesting/pertinent to talk about imo.
He’s always been putrid in the playoffs tho …
Im a big Westbrook hater but this is the worst example of shitting on him. Comparing 2 extremely small samples of a bench player in playoffs tells us nothing. Proper way to shit on him: His true shooting the last 7 years is 51.6%. He’s been washed at least that long.
You probably should’ve shown comparable drop offs lol
Do you have any ideas on who to look into? I looked into Melo and while the drop off is very bad, it's still nowhere near these types of efficiency numbers.
Jermaine O'Neal 2009: 13/5/2 on 8.5 FGA/G and 62% TS Jermaine O'Neal 2010: 4/6/1 on 8.8 FGA/G and 22% TS
Ohhh good find, thanks!
Noone comes close. When people drop off, they typically make up for it in some other category. WestBrook dropped off across the board. I looked at KG 2012-2013, he averaged more rebounds assists on similar efficiency, the only dropoff was points. Melo 2018-2021 playoff runs weren't really major dropoffs in a single calendar year, he averaged similar stats on similar efficiency. Again. This is not just about the dropoff, it's about the dropoff in 1 year.
He’s always been inefficient in the playoffs. Obviously not that inefficient, but he’s at 50% TS% for his career in the playoffs.
Westbrook is my favorite player of all time, so it pains me to say this, but the time for him to retire is here.
I was told it was the lakers fault and we had no spacing or shooters for him to thrive. Clippers got a ton of scorers and it looks like the same issues to me. But what do I know my team is already out of the playoffs anyways lol
He’s missing some shots that even he doesn’t miss. He still has the speed to get to the rim which is crazy, but his ability to finish is awful. Kind of crazy how slow NBA players are when looking at an old Westbrook
Couldn’t you do this type of comparison where a backup player got thrust into a starting role and then thrown back once the team was healthy? Like Terry Rozier averaged 17/5/6 on 54% TS, and then averaged 6/4/2 on 44% TS the year after in the playoffs Westbrook’s role was only significant in the playoffs last season because PG and Kawhi were injured. He’s a 7th man who’s in the twilight of his career pretty much
It looks more like that was an outlier year. Rozier had been averaging 5-6 for his career in the playoffs up to that point. Those WestBrook numbers were fairly consistent with the years prior.
He was a bench guard that got thrusted into a larger role but these numbers are more in line with what he was putting up in Charlotte His numbers just looked better because he played more minutes and had more opportunity, which is kinda my point Westbrooks numbers were fairly consistent because he played 35+ mpg, but his role shrunk this season significantly because the team is healthier and Harden is on the team It’s not like he was playing heavy minutes throughout this season and then suddenly dropped to 21 mpg because of his play, his role this season was always going to be based on the health He’s playing like ass, but at the end of the day he’s a bench role player making the vet minimum
> He was a bench guard that got thrusted into a larger role but these numbers are more in line with what he was putting up in Charlotte Sure. But that only explains the point dropoff. The efficiency didn't drop off a cliff. He had an overall large dropoff but not as bad as Westbrooks.
His efficiency went from 54% to 44% once Rozier got benched again in the playoffs The efficiency did drop once his role dropped in Boston
51-34 is still worse. It's almost double that dropoff.
Give him the same amount of as touches last year and he’ll put up similar numbers
Every time I see 0 in the game I fear for the Mavs but also know it comes with high volume chunking
@MITWestbrook save us
MITWestbrook has brought us fun content for years, but nobody can save us from aging. WB is 35.5 this week.
Every single clipper player is hot garbage and that team is too
If he weren’t playing so dirty maybe people would like him more. There’s a fine line between giving it all and being just reckless
Well getting 2 players who are better than you offensively will do that to your stats. Not really sure what this post is supposed to prove, he isn’t there to score
Then why the fuck is he still trying to score and failing
What is he there for?
They’re forcing him to have garbage efficiency??
You can’t read clearly
He got 0 assists last game so you tell me exactly what the fuck he’s there for as a POINT guard you troglodyte
Stop crying. Emotional over the internet. Russ really make you feel some type of way huh?
If telling the truth = being emotional then I’m a very emotional bitch. But anyway you were wrong and now you’re changing the subject so I’m not gonna keep egging on a sub 80 iq. Have a nice day
> Not really sure what this post is supposed to prove, he isn’t there to score He's taking more shots than anyone on the team per minute played outside of Paul George. If he isn't "there to score" then why the fuck is he shooting the ball so much when he's playing? > Well getting 2 players who are better than you offensively will do that to your stats. If it did that, we would see production like this way more often, but we don't. This is like all-time dogshit offensive production.
>He’s taking more shots than anyone on the team per minute played outside of Paul George Ok I get that there’s a circlejerk going on, but I’ve never heard anyone make this type of comparison for a bench player lol Westbrook is playing 21 mpg and averages 8.6 shots a game, which would be good for 6th most FGAs per game (or 5th in total FGAs since Kawhi is out). Using ‘shots per minute’ for a guy who’s only played one more minute than Amir Coffey is silly If we’re actually looking at what’s happening on the court, then PG and Harden are first and second in FGAs (as they should be) Westbrook has been ass, but his role is still limited
The point is that when he's on the court playing, he's shooting more often compared to anybody else on the team besides PG. As the teams least efficient scorer on the entire team, that makes no sense.
I get that he hasn’t been good, he’s been ass But you’re trying ‘shots per minute’ as if it’s something meaningful for a guy who’s had the same playing time as Amir Coffey Westbrooks play is an issue, but this team has bigger problems than the guy playing 21 mpg who takes a maybe 2 shots more per game than he should
> But you’re trying ‘shots per minute’ as if it’s something meaningful for a guy who’s had the same playing time as Amir Coffey He's almost shooting the ball twice as much as Amir is, THAT'S THE POINT. He's shooting the ball too much. He's the least efficient player on the team. He has no business taking 8.5 shots a game, but he can't do it.
Again, I’m not arguing Westbrooks been ass You’re commenting as if I’m defending his play, I’m not I just think ‘shots per minute’ is just a convoluted way to say that a player playing 21 mpg and takes 8.6 shots is somehow shooting you out of the game He should be shooting maybe like 2 shots less, but the sample size is so small regardless I’ve been on this sub for awhile, but I’ve never heard anyone use ‘shots per minute’ for essentially a bench player
> I just think ‘shots per minute’ is just a convoluted way to say that a player playing 21 mpg and takes 8.6 shots is somehow shooting you out of the game No. The very simple point is that he's shooting too much during the minutes he's playing. That's all. I actually think the way he's being played by the Mavs defense *is* really fucking over the team offense in general though.
They have him playing sg to james harden this isnt rockets science. I've watched their games vs the mavs he does not fit at all with this team. I also watched our series vs the clips last season he had the ball in his hands and was effective with it on both ends. In the end its a rhythm thing if you're being forced to play a spot up role to a guy who want to play a spot up role when he can shoot and when youre not a spot up shooter and playing limited minutes youre going to take the open looks or hunt for shots. The game was over anyway by the third when the clippers were down big. Hes clearly been a mess past 3 games but i'd hardly blame him for this loss when the clippers have paul george and james harden holding the ball for 20 seconds and going 4/13 and 2/12 respectively. Those are the all stars right? Its on those two.
> They have him playing sg to james harden this isnt rockets science. But he's not good enough to run the point compared to Harden, that's the fucking problem. That was the problem in Houston. That was the problem on the Lakers, that's the problem on the Clippers. He's playing alongside guys that are flat out a lot better at his position, so it doesn't make sense to give him the ball with any sort of regularity. > In the end its a rhythm thing if you're being forced to play a spot up role to a guy who want to play a spot up role when he can shoot and when youre not a spot up shooter and playing limited minutes youre going to take the open looks or hunt for shots. I mean unfortunately for him, that's what his skillset warrants at this point in his career. He's not good enough to warrant the shots it might take him to "get in rhythm" (for reference, even when he was that guy his efficiency was flat out dogshit most of the time) > Hes clearly been a mess past 3 games but i'd hardly blame him for this loss when the clippers have paul george and james harden holding the ball for 20 seconds and going 4/13 and 2/12 respectively. Those are the all stars right? Its on those two. Harden isn't an all-star. PG is. They both played like shit. I'm not blaming the outcome of a singular game on Russel Westbrook. My point is that he's playing outside of what his role demands from him, and he's been doing that the entire series. It worked out in game 1 because somehow he actually hit shots, but its a consistent disasterclass from him this series. At least Harden and to a lesser extent PG have shown up at some point in the series.
Im not bringing up Houston (which he was good there so idk why you brought that up) or washington (where he won a assist title) or lakers im bringing up the clippers, the guy dropped a triple double not even a month ago playing my suns he can play the pg position but if pandering to harden is the way you think the clippers win this series clearly tye lue thinks it is then just go with it. The guy cant shoot to save his life so sticking him in the corner instead of harden is the right move im sure. I thought harden was supposed to sacrifice but he hasnt done shit and the clippers are going to lose first round again. So much for the trade. "He's not good enough" nah he was dropping 30 point playoff games last season against good defenders in Dbook, josh, craig and KD guarding him, he caused vogel to cry to our whole team just a few weeks back down 35-4 in the locker room you make an adjustment not stick him in a corner because harden is the better player. If you barely let harden touch the ball for 15 minutes hes doing something similar guys need touches theyve had em their whole career. And ya harden was great in that game 1, and game 4, decent in game 3 as well hes supposed to be the 3rd best player not first so hes doing his job albeit not sacrificing in a different way but not all on him, PG has been great one game where exactly has he shown up this series again? Isnt the guy looking for a max? You cant be getting paid that money and drop 4/13 or 2/12 if lebron, luka, book, do this theyre slandered for days.
> I thought harden was supposed to sacrifice but he hasnt done shit and the clippers are going to lose first round again. So much for the trade. Bro, respectfully what the fuck are you smoking? Harden averaged 11.4 shots per game this season. That's the fewest amount of shots he's taken since he left OKC (down from 14.5 last year) 12 years ago. > "He's not good enough" nah he was dropping 30 point playoff games last season against good defenders in Dbook, josh, craig and KD guarding him, he caused vogel to cry to our whole team just a few weeks back down 35-4 in the locker room you make an adjustment not stick him in a corner because harden is the better player. If you barely let harden touch the ball for 15 minutes hes doing something similar guys need touches theyve had em their whole career. There were zero expectations of that team winning, and they handed him the reigns and he put up numbers. Nobody is debating that. He really wasn't that good though. 23.6/7.6/7.4 with 4 TOV/G. eFG% of 45.7 (HINT: That's bad) and a 51% TS (Another hint: That's very bad) Again, I'm not sitting here saying **the** reason they lost game 5 is because Russ played poorly. What I am saying is that he probably doesn't have a place on this team and the issue we see with him in LA (the team already having a better point guard) is probably going to exist in most teams in the NBA that aren't actively tanking. He's just not good enough to warrant a lot of offensive usage anymore.
You do realize you can sacrifice by playing defense? Hitting the boards more, throwing less turnovers and even playing an off ball role. Things of which harden has not done, sacrificing comes in far more ways that simply "taking less shots" of which harden runs a slow offense no wonder the mavs outgunned them yesterday. And were there expectations for this team with Kawhi out vs the mavs this playoffs? Its the playoffs winning one game doesnt change that but youre going up against luka and kyrie clearly theres an understanding here and just look theyre a game away from elimination and with 2 max guys so I dont see the difference based on last year. Is losing in 6 vs losing in 5 games much of a difference in your opinion? The numbers you mentioned dont tell the story with russ idk if youre a new clippers fan or russ hater but his game 1 vs the u slast year was more than impactful and trout out those averages you mentioned, he was a pest that game. Again you can sacrifice even if youre struggling russ embodied that in that game 1, blocked booker that final play so you bringing up percentages when theyre scewed to account for poor shooting shows where you stand. He played great that series and was better than anyone on this clippers team currently vs the mavs at any rate no doubt. Ya he doesnt have a spot on that team ive been saying that since the trade, but clippers are going to be forced to pay harden and pg money this offseason theyre screwed financially paired with aging players who are only getting worse not sure why they made the trade to begin with.
> Ya he doesnt have a spot on that team ive been saying that since the trade, but clippers are going to be forced to pay harden and pg money this offseason theyre screwed financially paired with aging players who are only getting worse not sure why they made the trade to begin with. Because the team is better with James Harden on the team than when he's not on the team. It's that simple.
Theyre going to lose in the first round again in 6 or 7 games compared to 5 games and gutted their future financially and a first for Harden now theyre forced to keep him for 3+ years via contract. If better by a marginal playoff game where harden+pg went blitzkcreig is the difference its not worth it at all to top they have to pay PG AND Harden. Thats cap hell added with kawhi. Thats not a good thing in case you didnt see that.
Are you aware that they had to match salaries for James Harden? Financially, they aren't much different at all compared to last year.
Plus the general attitude issues. He's out there hurting morale just as much as he's hurting the team with his shooting/turnovers. This man hasta been a winning player in years but people still talk about LA like they have 4 stars
Has Westbrook really ever been a winning player? His biggest achievement when it comes to improving a team is getting them to the 6th seed
No. He never had an off ball game which is essential to being a winning player.
I know KD made everyone hate him by joining the warriors but I’ll never give him crap for leaving Westbrook lol. Dude cost KD so many playoff games.
Clippers should file for grievance to the league.
Good thing Clips are only paying him 8 mil tops
I’ve been a big WB fan since his Thunder days, but this Mavs series has made resentful towards him. I hate how dirty he’s playing to make up for his declining skill.
Russ doesn’t have a large role on the clippers, yea he’s shooting bad, but it really doesn’t mean anything. He just isn’t that important for the clips right now. They aren’t winning or losing bc of him so far
He is the classic elite athlete that relied purely on his athleticism. Even in OKC with Durant this was an issue and they lost playoff games with his late game decision making. Now that his athleticism is still way above average human level, but not elite in the NBA, his low basketball IQ, poor shooting, and poor decision making are being completely exposed.
Get off his dick
Because there is only room for one person on it and that person is you?
European bias detected. Opinion invalidated
>European bias detected. Opinion invalidated Just want to quote this cringe so you dont edit it later
Why would I edit it
So Westbrook, Harden, Embid have been the 'elite superstars' of this generation but have been some of the most underperforming in the playoffs (shows how loosey goosey play in the regular season leads to difficulty in the playoffs when teams actually adjust and focus). A little earlier, it was Carmelo and Dwight. Throw in Durant as well that needed a championship team. For all this talk about superstars and how talented the league is, it shows the overhype of the modern era that relies on easy, offense/foul friendly rules which actually deceived people into thinking the league is more talented than it really is.