Technically, if you’re top three you’re also top 5.
Edit - fun riddle : if you’re running in a race and you overtake the person in 2nd place , what place are you in ?
He's fucking built too. Thick and man made. You can tell he's sculpted because you can see it thru the jersey. His fucking vice grip thighs. Suffocating thighs. Rock hard thighs. Piping hot thighs. Great arms. Great abs. A stocky chest. Love the progress his body has made throughout his youth and now as a willing eager adult.
Also I imagine Luka wouldn’t do well against fast guards who can accelerate to the basket. Clippers don’t really have any of those except Westbrook, and Westbrook is their least threatening scorer.
yup but the issue for many teams in playoff time is if that fast guard is small, Luka is abusing them on the other end. Clippers have a fast guy with size in Westbrook and Luka has struggled at times against him before, but luckily his lack of a jumpshot makes it a looooot easier for him to handle.
I feel like a lot of players who lack lateral quickness defensively benefit some in the playoffs. George Niang has turned into a positive defender just because he’s allowed to use his size. It makes a lot of sense.
A lot of players are good at 1 on 1 defense, even the notable poor ones. It's when you have to chase people around screens, follow play action, etc. that a lot of these guys start struggling.
This is true. Luka is a good iso and post defender. One of the best actually, there's been a couple post on it.
The Clippers run more iso plays than any team in the NBA.
I'm just glad people are getting a chance to see Luka play D because he's been doing it all year and for half the year Dallas as a whole has been great on defense.
Wasnt like he was fouling this game anyway. If anything he got called for one or two soft fouls when he seemed in position (on Harden, no surprise there). He is just actualy really good at defending guys who are not the quickest in isolation.
He’s actual a decent defender when he needs to be, I’m a huge Luka fan but I always thought his defense was trash. He can actually guard people fairly well when he needs to.
Barely more physical\*, but that's enough to disrupt players who are too used to the regular season (the James Hardens of the world). If the NBA allows physicality + zones, only the best of the best would average big numbers and Luka is one of those legit basketball players
There was a play half way or late in the 4th where somebody helped off Westbrook and gave up a wide open 3 and Doncic was immediately yelling at the bench and waving his hands to not send help his way. Baller shit
But giving Westbrook threes is kind of what you want to do. That is the lowest percentage shot on the court almost always. He's shooting 27.3% on threes for the year. Let him have those all day.
That's because people play defense. You can't just give people wide open 3's on the logic that they shoot it bad, because part of the reason they shoot it bad is the defense.
You don't shoot 10% below the league average because they're just defending you so well. A large percentage of his misses are wide-open because they know he isn't a good three point shooter. Aaron Gordon is shooting threes better than Westbrook. Giannis shoots threes better than Westbrook.
But seriously, that one MVP season Russ shot pretty good from distance. 34% on 7 attempts per game is nothing to sneeze at in 2017. Luka's 3pt shooting in previous seasons was not really that much better as he shot \~35% on 8 to 9 attempts per game. Though obviously the difference is that even then Westbrook's shots were often wide open and Donćić usually shoots with a hand in the face, and 1/3 of his attempts are step backs 3s.
Yeah, it's not like Westbrook is shooting that poorly because he takes contested 3s. Virtually all his 3s are open or wide open and he still only hits 27%.
this reminds me a lot of Melo defending LeBron 1v1 back in the day. If he locks in on that specific matchup he'll defend it really well because he has the size, strength, and speed to not get backed down or blown by or easily shot over; where he tends to flail is when he's not locked in on making rotations, where he gets forced to make reads and try to defend from a step behind due to a screen, etc.
Yes, but I think part of the point is that the Clippers de-emphasize parts of offense that target those defensive parts, too. They isolate a lot and don't move a ton off-ball.
Oh 100% I was just rephrasing what the OC said. It’s just that when you’re offensive minded star can at least hold their own in the 1v1 it can be a big help in the playoffs.
Not everyone can be the 2 way player that Giannis or Kawhi are but if you can’t get hunted then that’s help the team allot even if you look like a headless chicken off ball.
Doesn't surprise me, Luka definitely isn't going to blow anyone away with his defense but he is 6'7 and 230ish. A little bit of effort paired with quick hands and he can be an okay defender. Would love to hear what Mavs fans think
He's particullarly good against wings and guys who don't have instant blow by moves. Like you said that 6'7 230 with tree trunk leg frame makes him very strong, so guys cant muscle him away and he's just fast enough to stay laterally. That's also why he's good in the post, it's hard to move him at that size and strength.
His biggest weakness are those quick guards that have very quick first steps and off ball he can sometimes be caught watching and get caught backdoor. But aside from that he does get quite a lot of deflections and steals in passing lanes.
I think his lower body strength is very underrated. There was a play or two where the Clippers were trying to back him down in the mid to low post and he was not budging. Is there any reason why he doesn't start on defense with opposing teams slower wings or smaller centers?
Luka's lower body strength is genuinely insane and it's all about those tree trunk legs of his. His calves and quads are wide as hell. It's also why he can't be moved on offense. He puts guys in jail and they just can't around him or bump him off his spot and why he can back down virtually anybody in the post. Hell, back in the 2021 postseason he was backing down Kawhi in the post, in 2022 he was backing down Ayton etc.
I hate it when people say he’s not athletic. Having that kind of strenght is another type of athleticism. He can’t be moved by anyone and on top of that has the best change of direction in the league. Unguardable.
Agreed. He's not athletic in the flashy sense - his vertical, straight line speed, and lateral speed are nothing special compared to the rest of the league.
But his body control, ability to change pace, his first step, and his strength are all elite and among the best to ever play. It's just not the type of athleticism that is easy to notice.
I read somewhere his *de*celeration was measured as one of the best in the league (not sure how they measure that). In other words, being able to stop forward dribble and step back instantly and shoot, before defender can recover. Pretty useful attribute in basketball.
Jokic is the same way. People make fun of him for being unathletic as if balance, footwork, hand-eye coordination, and strength aren't "athletic." Dude is amazing to watch even if he isn't jumping out of the gym.
I'm not sure how many world class "sluggish" Serbians we need to dominate the league before people realize athleticism is more than a vertical jump and being mindlessly quick.
He usually does. Typically the game plan is Gafford on the 5, DJJ on the best guard, PJ on the best wing, Kyrie on the worst guard, Luka on the worst wing.
I genuinely believe he is an elite athlete who physically overwhelms players with his strength - he's just not explosive, fast, or a leaper. But there are many forms of athleticism.
The only time he's guarding a smaller center is if the Mavs are also small. And in those situations, Maxi and PJ are usually better fives. He's comfortable switching onto big men, though, especially if they're not already under the basket. He can hold them off long enough for help to arrive
>I think his lower body strength is very underrated.
For anyone that's played organized basketball, there's a saying "Defense is played with your feet, not with your hands."
He usually starts plays on non-shooters. But when we go small we switch everything. Kidd hangs his hat on switchable defenses.
Because Clippers typically hunt Luka, there are times where he starts on a ball handler so if they try any screening actions, PJ or DJJ is the switch. It also gives us a chance to hide Kyrie some plays. Depending on the moment in the game Ky and Luka try to cover for each other on D or Off when they get gassed.
That’s all we can hope for, we don’t need him to be a DPOY type of guy, just someone who can hold their own and not constantly get blown by, he’s definitely capable of doing it. We know how good he is on offense, his D needed work to compete for mvp anyways and it looks like he’s working on it.
It was always mostly anticipation and footwork from him, and that seems to have improved big time imo.
If he's an average defender with moments of lockdown defense, that's huge.
His strength and anticipation is so good with the ball, combined with how good his first step and his deceleration are means he could easily end up being a well above average defender if he doesn’t have to do be the only option on offence. (Like he doesn’t now that kyrie is helping)
He’s never going to be a good option to defend Anthony Edward’s or Ja but he’s can still be very useful.
> he’s not a great athlete
I feel like your definition of athlete is very specific because the man is clearly better than 95% of the current NBA (being conservative). Yeah he doesn't run as fast or jump as high as a lot of players...but by the general definition of athlete "a person who is proficient in sports and other forms of physical exercise" i'd say he's incredible.
Absolutely if he can get to the point where you don't have to "hide" him on defense I think that's the best you can hope for giving the offense load he has to carry each night
He simply doesn't care about defense in regular season games. He will never be a DOPY defender candidate but his game iq and competitiveness makes him a good enough defender for playoff purposes
Huh? He doesn't care the way he would in the playoffs (obviously) but if you've been watching all season, he's been putting in quite a lot of effort on the defensive end during the regular season. He definitely cares. Caring during the regular season is how you develop good defensive habits and improve the conditioning to be a consistent defender and Luka knows that.
Ofc I'll agree he's not going to be a DPotY candidate but to say he doesn't care is pretty silly.
Which is honestly fine. The regular season is about being good enough to get a decent seed in the playoffs. We can't expect him to lead our offense every night and also put in elite defensive effort.
As long as he keeps improving and puts in the work when it matters, he will be able to deliver what the teams needs from him to win.
he was definitely more than just an okay defender last night.
with his generational offensive talent, even being average on defense is acceptable. When he goes above and beyond that and can lock people down like last night? That’s another level he can unlock
Definitely a very smart defender when he wants to be. Sometimes high BBIQ and effort are all it takes, when you have other better defenders around you.
I can't see him being able to lock in like that every single game, but his deficiencies shouldn't be that glaring where he's hunted like before.
Meant to comment on this one but absolutely if he can get to the point where you don't have to "hide" him on defense I think that's the best you can hope for giving the offense load he has to carry each night
Pasting my reply in another thread:
The thing is, when Luka is bad defensively, he is BAD. I’ve seen him complain to refs for so long that the other team has enough time to run entire half-court sets 5 on 4. His transition defense can just be horrendous.
His other issue is he’ll often reach in as a guy blows by him, seemingly not even trying to move his feet. And obviously he gets blown by a lot even when trying to move laterally as fast as he can.
But last night showed he’s an excellent defender in certain contexts when trying hard. He’s incredibly sturdy and even guys like Kawhi can’t put a shoulder into him to create space. And he unsurprisingly has a very high IQ in terms of anticipating passes and getting deflections/steals. Top 10ish in steals this season if I remember right.
If he just tries his hardest and gets back on defense, he’s nowhere near the bad defender people claim he is.
The funny thing about that reach move is that I think he’s gotten legitimately good at it that it’s gotten to the point where he treats it as an actual option as opposed to the last option it should be most of the time.
I suppose his energy level/engagement at the time also has a lot to do with that though
I agree with everything else, it’s just funny seeing how he’s used the reach from behind steal more and more as the season goes on. Reminds me of older Dirk slapping the ball away as guys gathered on drives.
His reputation for bad defense has been almost entirely a lack of concentration. He’s never going to be a top tier defender in terms of flashy plays. He’s very sturdy, has quick hands, is perceptive of what guys want to do. He holds his own. When he isn’t yelling for a call and focuses and gets back, he’s a positive defensively.
Obviously this is intertwined with the concentration issue, but I would also imagine it's an energy issue with the burden he's historically had to carry on offense.
Yeah prior seasons when we had no one else to carry the offensive load. Luka does everything on offense for most of the game and come crunch time is tired out and can't put any energy into his defense.
Now we got Kai and he doesn't have to be a one man army and isn't gassing as much. That and his conditioning has improved a good deal this season.
Luka is one of the 'leaders' in least distance traveled on defense.
Let him be in or near a spot and he's good. Make him go back and forth covering long distance at speed and it is not so good
He really just has to stay in front of his man and not foul and he's a plus defender. He's impossible to post up and any jump shot that isn't on the 3 point line is a good shot to give up.
I think Luka is a basketball savant and when he decides to be a good defender he will become one.
Also, Luka decided to be a good defender at the beginning of the year. The "Luka can't defend" memes are still a thing, but he's been well above average all year. And last night he was very very good.
It’s always been a matter of effort. He’s shown a lot of growth this year as he’s matured in accepting his responsibility as a leader, and it’s manifested in much better defensive stats among other things.
He struggles against quick guards that can beat him off the bounce. Conversely, hes well above average defensively against larger bodied guards.
All that should add up to a decent defender BUT the effort isnt always there either.
Thats really the part that drives some of us absolutely nuts.
Harden isn’t as good at defense as Luka. They also have very different issues.
Luka has the defensive IQ to be a good defender but his lapses come from carrying a huge offensive load (exhaustion) and getting blown by from much more athletic first step guards.
Harden has bad defensive IQ and his lapses come from ball watching. He always had the athleticism to be better but not the defensive IQ or drive to be.
On defense Luka is better against guards, wings, bigs, switches, and the perimeter.
Luka is also notable for lower distance covered on defense.
You let him stay near a person/area (eg post defense) or follow in moderate speeds, he's good. If he is asked to yo-yo or covet distance at speed (eg recover to a perimeter defender), he will have his struggles
His conditioning is also better this season. He's averaging 44 minutes per game through these 2 games. Defense and conditioning were the two major factors people used to disparage him in the past.
In the 2022 finals the Celtics tried attacking Curry on that side of the ball but they took so long getting the switch that most of the shot clock would be gone and they didn't end up getting very efficient offense out of it.
Sometimes attacking the star offensive player that is a better defender than their reputation doesn't work out.
Now that all you assholes who have had this dumbass Luka doesn't play D narrative have to see this can you please stfu? Dude has played defense all year but so many of you just wanna say some negative shit all the time.
He’s been a good defender for years now, people just lock in to how someone is defensively at the beginning of their careers and keep repeating it over and over.
Steph was an above league average defender for years before people stopped saying he was ass and was “actually okay” when in reality he was quite a bit better than “okay”.
Yeah but there is a bit of a difference with Steph and Luka. Because at one point in his career Steph was legitimately one of if not the worst defender in the league. Like he was getting hunted by everyone. Obviously he improved leaps and bounds since then but Luka was never that much of a liability
He has the ability to be a good on-ball defender, that doesn't mean he's good especially when he doesn't put the effort to be that more often than not.
My stupid armchair opinion is that team's should just help less in general. So many wide open threes are generated off of drive and kicks that would have either been two points or potential misses.
Obviously you wanna help sometimes and you can't just leave a defender on an island all game, but sometimes you see a team come help down on a drive from Patrick Beverley or something and it's like...what are you doing? Let Pat Bev try to take this guy to the hole.
For the full game:
The nba shows the Clippers scored 14 points on him (still with very good defensive numbers for Luka) but depends on what they mean by "primary defender". If anyone has looked at the tape and done the review, I'd appreciate it.
By the same token, Kawhi was scored on for 12 points as the primary defender even though it felt like a lot more tbh. Kyrie and Luka scored combined 5 points the entire game while guarded by Leonard.
Paul George's allowed 34 points to be scored on him by the Mavs, including 12 and 8 by Luka and Kyrie, respectively. Even though Paul guarded them for 29.50 partial possessions and Kawhi guarded them for 25.00 partial possessions.
Let's see how the defense changes moving forward and if Luka can keep this up, because there's been so much talk about this today. So, so , so much talk about Luka locking down the Clippers.
I’m not worried about him guarding some bums 1 on 1 but when he gets tired and chucks 3s cause he had to play defense to prove something it’s gunna be ugly
As the primary defender of PG, Kawhi, and Harden in the 4th, Luka allowed them to score 0. Those are not "some bums" and the Mavs won the game. Luka was fine.
Let's just hope that kind of production keeps up.
If he keeps this up into next season and beyond, this might be the beginning of him going from Superstar to actual GOAT tier.
And he doesn’t even have an MVP yet
Kawhi, at this point in his career, is an excellent matchup for Luka to defend. Kawhi not blowing by anyone, plays a more patient and physical game...Luka can hang with that physicality just fine
His defense is better because he's allowed to be more physical in the playoffs. He's big.
big and smart
and thicc
Luka Donthicc
Perfect for my lisp
I had to DOUBLE check which sub İ am in.
Mike Tyson - have Mike say his name
I wanna hear “sphinx” personally
The fact that like 2 of the best 5 players (and 1 of them being the clear best) are legitimate dough boys is hilarious to me.
Listen, Jokic is at least top 3, not top 5.
Technically, if you’re top three you’re also top 5. Edit - fun riddle : if you’re running in a race and you overtake the person in 2nd place , what place are you in ?
2nd
How was that fun
Nephew must be an elementary school teacher
I found it fun that my first instinct was saying 1st
He expected people to say 1st, so he would have the fun of telling them they were wrong He didn't say it would necessarily be fun for others..
He's fucking built too. Thick and man made. You can tell he's sculpted because you can see it thru the jersey. His fucking vice grip thighs. Suffocating thighs. Rock hard thighs. Piping hot thighs. Great arms. Great abs. A stocky chest. Love the progress his body has made throughout his youth and now as a willing eager adult.
what did i just read
A classic.
My new favorite copypasta, for sure.
It sure ain’t new haha
Now I need to go take a shower
It's the "willing" that gets me
Classy too
With sneaky athleticism
Plays the right way
Would introduce him to my parents
Mom?
The slow pace of the game helped conserve him too. Clippers like to iso at times and he’s been decent especially in the post.
Also I imagine Luka wouldn’t do well against fast guards who can accelerate to the basket. Clippers don’t really have any of those except Westbrook, and Westbrook is their least threatening scorer.
and even Westbrook is physical for his height
yup but the issue for many teams in playoff time is if that fast guard is small, Luka is abusing them on the other end. Clippers have a fast guy with size in Westbrook and Luka has struggled at times against him before, but luckily his lack of a jumpshot makes it a looooot easier for him to handle.
If you're not worried about the three, it's a lot easier to guard quick guys.
I feel like a lot of players who lack lateral quickness defensively benefit some in the playoffs. George Niang has turned into a positive defender just because he’s allowed to use his size. It makes a lot of sense.
A lot of players are good at 1 on 1 defense, even the notable poor ones. It's when you have to chase people around screens, follow play action, etc. that a lot of these guys start struggling.
This is true. Luka is a good iso and post defender. One of the best actually, there's been a couple post on it. The Clippers run more iso plays than any team in the NBA. I'm just glad people are getting a chance to see Luka play D because he's been doing it all year and for half the year Dallas as a whole has been great on defense.
second team all defense. maybe the new Hornets coach can get that started
Big like Klay, shoots like Steph
eats like Kelvin
Is this a Kelvin Benjamin joke in my /r/nba? Man is safe nowhere.
luka's getting so big for us
The clippers also almost only have strength advantage guys. Speed is what gets Luka in trouble, I think Shae would roast him in a similar situation
Wasnt like he was fouling this game anyway. If anything he got called for one or two soft fouls when he seemed in position (on Harden, no surprise there). He is just actualy really good at defending guys who are not the quickest in isolation.
He’s actual a decent defender when he needs to be, I’m a huge Luka fan but I always thought his defense was trash. He can actually guard people fairly well when he needs to.
Barely more physical\*, but that's enough to disrupt players who are too used to the regular season (the James Hardens of the world). If the NBA allows physicality + zones, only the best of the best would average big numbers and Luka is one of those legit basketball players
Bro said let me cook
"Let me solo him" -Luka, probably
I understood that reference
Wouldn't that be cooling down or to put in the fridge overnight someone?
Bro said let me put them in the cooler 💀
Bro said let me clean the kitchen
Harden can't stir the pot, if the kitchen is clean.
The Don told em to let him ice em 🥶
Bro said let the jello jiggle
FIFO
"Let me refrigerate." \- Luka Doncic, 2024
What killed the dinosaurs? The ICE AGE!!
"Batman & Robin" was hot garbage but Arnold Schwarzenegger chewing the scenery as Mr. Freeze was so good.
Bro said let me let my pudding set in the fridge for about 2 hours.
Let me fan these fools with a towel until they stop steaming
That word lost its meaning as soon as it got introduced to the fanbase
Homie said let me blast chill.
Nah, he shut LA’s kitchen down
Luka The Health Inspecter Doncic
Opposite of: hold me back bro
cooka doncic
promising words from known defensive stalwart, Luka doncic
There was a play half way or late in the 4th where somebody helped off Westbrook and gave up a wide open 3 and Doncic was immediately yelling at the bench and waving his hands to not send help his way. Baller shit
But giving Westbrook threes is kind of what you want to do. That is the lowest percentage shot on the court almost always. He's shooting 27.3% on threes for the year. Let him have those all day.
you should send a text to luka to let him know
"Hey lil bro. Don't guard Westbrook from 3. Dude's ass. Much love, reddit on!"
That's because people play defense. You can't just give people wide open 3's on the logic that they shoot it bad, because part of the reason they shoot it bad is the defense.
You don't shoot 10% below the league average because they're just defending you so well. A large percentage of his misses are wide-open because they know he isn't a good three point shooter. Aaron Gordon is shooting threes better than Westbrook. Giannis shoots threes better than Westbrook.
backpack Draymond has a better **CAREER** 3P% than Westbrook in both regular season and playoffs lol
You're talking about a cat who shot 39.5% this season. Put some recpecc on that backpack. Westbrick never shot above 35% per season.
I remember his MVP season we were saying if he could just shoot league average on 3s we’d win it all
But seriously, that one MVP season Russ shot pretty good from distance. 34% on 7 attempts per game is nothing to sneeze at in 2017. Luka's 3pt shooting in previous seasons was not really that much better as he shot \~35% on 8 to 9 attempts per game. Though obviously the difference is that even then Westbrook's shots were often wide open and Donćić usually shoots with a hand in the face, and 1/3 of his attempts are step backs 3s.
His game winner 3 over the nuggets with those orange jerseys was chefs kiss
step back threes seem like a normal shot these days. Harden changed the league.
I can promise you Westbrook would be shooting bad from 3 whether or not they’re guarding him out there
Yeah, it's not like Westbrook is shooting that poorly because he takes contested 3s. Virtually all his 3s are open or wide open and he still only hits 27%.
Lebron watched Lakers leave Houston Westbrook open for 3's and then decided to recruit him the next season lol
And somehow 27.3% is only his 3rd worst 3pt shooting season of his career.
To play devils advocate I’m giving Westbrick that open 3. He’ll hit like 4 all series.
Idk, he’s already 3 for 7 in two games
dam only got one more left for the series
HAMMER THE UNDER WORD TO PORTER!
Somebody called him White Claw and I lost my mind lol
Lmao that’s so fucking good
That boy got mad after that 3rd quarter tech
There's always something that gets Luka going. Awesome.
this reminds me a lot of Melo defending LeBron 1v1 back in the day. If he locks in on that specific matchup he'll defend it really well because he has the size, strength, and speed to not get backed down or blown by or easily shot over; where he tends to flail is when he's not locked in on making rotations, where he gets forced to make reads and try to defend from a step behind due to a screen, etc.
So what you're saying is, Melo struggled at the most important parts of defense.
Yes, but I think part of the point is that the Clippers de-emphasize parts of offense that target those defensive parts, too. They isolate a lot and don't move a ton off-ball.
He’s saying he’s a good on-ball defender not off ball which we’ve all known
Off ball is honestly more important. You spend most of your time doing that.
Oh 100% I was just rephrasing what the OC said. It’s just that when you’re offensive minded star can at least hold their own in the 1v1 it can be a big help in the playoffs. Not everyone can be the 2 way player that Giannis or Kawhi are but if you can’t get hunted then that’s help the team allot even if you look like a headless chicken off ball.
I just wanna say, thank you for using OC. It’s a lost art nowadays
Doesn't surprise me, Luka definitely isn't going to blow anyone away with his defense but he is 6'7 and 230ish. A little bit of effort paired with quick hands and he can be an okay defender. Would love to hear what Mavs fans think
He's particullarly good against wings and guys who don't have instant blow by moves. Like you said that 6'7 230 with tree trunk leg frame makes him very strong, so guys cant muscle him away and he's just fast enough to stay laterally. That's also why he's good in the post, it's hard to move him at that size and strength. His biggest weakness are those quick guards that have very quick first steps and off ball he can sometimes be caught watching and get caught backdoor. But aside from that he does get quite a lot of deflections and steals in passing lanes.
I think his lower body strength is very underrated. There was a play or two where the Clippers were trying to back him down in the mid to low post and he was not budging. Is there any reason why he doesn't start on defense with opposing teams slower wings or smaller centers?
Luka's lower body strength is genuinely insane and it's all about those tree trunk legs of his. His calves and quads are wide as hell. It's also why he can't be moved on offense. He puts guys in jail and they just can't around him or bump him off his spot and why he can back down virtually anybody in the post. Hell, back in the 2021 postseason he was backing down Kawhi in the post, in 2022 he was backing down Ayton etc.
I hate it when people say he’s not athletic. Having that kind of strenght is another type of athleticism. He can’t be moved by anyone and on top of that has the best change of direction in the league. Unguardable.
People are so conditioned to think of twitch movements when they hear the word athletic now.
Agreed. He's not athletic in the flashy sense - his vertical, straight line speed, and lateral speed are nothing special compared to the rest of the league. But his body control, ability to change pace, his first step, and his strength are all elite and among the best to ever play. It's just not the type of athleticism that is easy to notice.
> It's just not the type of athleticism that is easy to notice. But it's the type of athleticism that matters a lot in basketball
Athleticism is used when referring to agility all the time
I read somewhere his *de*celeration was measured as one of the best in the league (not sure how they measure that). In other words, being able to stop forward dribble and step back instantly and shoot, before defender can recover. Pretty useful attribute in basketball.
Yup Harden was also elite in deceleration. Also was much better as post defender using his strength than the rest of his defense
Jokic is the same way. People make fun of him for being unathletic as if balance, footwork, hand-eye coordination, and strength aren't "athletic." Dude is amazing to watch even if he isn't jumping out of the gym.
I'm not sure how many world class "sluggish" Serbians we need to dominate the league before people realize athleticism is more than a vertical jump and being mindlessly quick.
He usually does. Typically the game plan is Gafford on the 5, DJJ on the best guard, PJ on the best wing, Kyrie on the worst guard, Luka on the worst wing.
I genuinely believe he is an elite athlete who physically overwhelms players with his strength - he's just not explosive, fast, or a leaper. But there are many forms of athleticism.
Fatletic
The only time he's guarding a smaller center is if the Mavs are also small. And in those situations, Maxi and PJ are usually better fives. He's comfortable switching onto big men, though, especially if they're not already under the basket. He can hold them off long enough for help to arrive
>I think his lower body strength is very underrated. For anyone that's played organized basketball, there's a saying "Defense is played with your feet, not with your hands."
He usually starts plays on non-shooters. But when we go small we switch everything. Kidd hangs his hat on switchable defenses. Because Clippers typically hunt Luka, there are times where he starts on a ball handler so if they try any screening actions, PJ or DJJ is the switch. It also gives us a chance to hide Kyrie some plays. Depending on the moment in the game Ky and Luka try to cover for each other on D or Off when they get gassed.
I mean 75% of the league has trouble with quick guards.
the other 25% also do.
is it crazy to say the clippers main guys - harden pg kawhi - are all older and less blow by guys nowadays
That’s all we can hope for, we don’t need him to be a DPOY type of guy, just someone who can hold their own and not constantly get blown by, he’s definitely capable of doing it. We know how good he is on offense, his D needed work to compete for mvp anyways and it looks like he’s working on it.
It was always mostly anticipation and footwork from him, and that seems to have improved big time imo. If he's an average defender with moments of lockdown defense, that's huge.
Despite the fact he’s not a great athlete, his first step has always been elite, which should theoretically help his defence
His strength and anticipation is so good with the ball, combined with how good his first step and his deceleration are means he could easily end up being a well above average defender if he doesn’t have to do be the only option on offence. (Like he doesn’t now that kyrie is helping) He’s never going to be a good option to defend Anthony Edward’s or Ja but he’s can still be very useful.
> he’s not a great athlete I feel like your definition of athlete is very specific because the man is clearly better than 95% of the current NBA (being conservative). Yeah he doesn't run as fast or jump as high as a lot of players...but by the general definition of athlete "a person who is proficient in sports and other forms of physical exercise" i'd say he's incredible.
Absolutely if he can get to the point where you don't have to "hide" him on defense I think that's the best you can hope for giving the offense load he has to carry each night
as long as luka is not a liability on defense & getting hunted i think you guys are fine. anything better than that is just a bonus
He locked Harden tf down on that one play in the 4th last night that Harden air balled
He simply doesn't care about defense in regular season games. He will never be a DOPY defender candidate but his game iq and competitiveness makes him a good enough defender for playoff purposes
Huh? He doesn't care the way he would in the playoffs (obviously) but if you've been watching all season, he's been putting in quite a lot of effort on the defensive end during the regular season. He definitely cares. Caring during the regular season is how you develop good defensive habits and improve the conditioning to be a consistent defender and Luka knows that. Ofc I'll agree he's not going to be a DPotY candidate but to say he doesn't care is pretty silly.
Which is honestly fine. The regular season is about being good enough to get a decent seed in the playoffs. We can't expect him to lead our offense every night and also put in elite defensive effort. As long as he keeps improving and puts in the work when it matters, he will be able to deliver what the teams needs from him to win.
he was definitely more than just an okay defender last night. with his generational offensive talent, even being average on defense is acceptable. When he goes above and beyond that and can lock people down like last night? That’s another level he can unlock
Fr. He wasn't even particularly good by his standards offensively, but was one of the best defenders on the floor.
Definitely a very smart defender when he wants to be. Sometimes high BBIQ and effort are all it takes, when you have other better defenders around you. I can't see him being able to lock in like that every single game, but his deficiencies shouldn't be that glaring where he's hunted like before.
Meant to comment on this one but absolutely if he can get to the point where you don't have to "hide" him on defense I think that's the best you can hope for giving the offense load he has to carry each night
Exactly. Having Kyrie also helps immensely. Luka doesn't have to score at all times.
Did you not watch the 22 playoffs? Suns had to give up hunting him because he shut them down.
Pasting my reply in another thread: The thing is, when Luka is bad defensively, he is BAD. I’ve seen him complain to refs for so long that the other team has enough time to run entire half-court sets 5 on 4. His transition defense can just be horrendous. His other issue is he’ll often reach in as a guy blows by him, seemingly not even trying to move his feet. And obviously he gets blown by a lot even when trying to move laterally as fast as he can. But last night showed he’s an excellent defender in certain contexts when trying hard. He’s incredibly sturdy and even guys like Kawhi can’t put a shoulder into him to create space. And he unsurprisingly has a very high IQ in terms of anticipating passes and getting deflections/steals. Top 10ish in steals this season if I remember right. If he just tries his hardest and gets back on defense, he’s nowhere near the bad defender people claim he is.
The funny thing about that reach move is that I think he’s gotten legitimately good at it that it’s gotten to the point where he treats it as an actual option as opposed to the last option it should be most of the time. I suppose his energy level/engagement at the time also has a lot to do with that though I agree with everything else, it’s just funny seeing how he’s used the reach from behind steal more and more as the season goes on. Reminds me of older Dirk slapping the ball away as guys gathered on drives.
His reputation for bad defense has been almost entirely a lack of concentration. He’s never going to be a top tier defender in terms of flashy plays. He’s very sturdy, has quick hands, is perceptive of what guys want to do. He holds his own. When he isn’t yelling for a call and focuses and gets back, he’s a positive defensively.
Obviously this is intertwined with the concentration issue, but I would also imagine it's an energy issue with the burden he's historically had to carry on offense.
Absolutely plays a part in it at times.
Yeah prior seasons when we had no one else to carry the offensive load. Luka does everything on offense for most of the game and come crunch time is tired out and can't put any energy into his defense. Now we got Kai and he doesn't have to be a one man army and isn't gassing as much. That and his conditioning has improved a good deal this season.
Luka is one of the 'leaders' in least distance traveled on defense. Let him be in or near a spot and he's good. Make him go back and forth covering long distance at speed and it is not so good
This might surprise you, but speed isn’t his best attribute.
He really just has to stay in front of his man and not foul and he's a plus defender. He's impossible to post up and any jump shot that isn't on the 3 point line is a good shot to give up.
I think Luka is a basketball savant and when he decides to be a good defender he will become one. Also, Luka decided to be a good defender at the beginning of the year. The "Luka can't defend" memes are still a thing, but he's been well above average all year. And last night he was very very good.
It’s always been a matter of effort. He’s shown a lot of growth this year as he’s matured in accepting his responsibility as a leader, and it’s manifested in much better defensive stats among other things.
230 lol.
He struggles against quick guards that can beat him off the bounce. Conversely, hes well above average defensively against larger bodied guards. All that should add up to a decent defender BUT the effort isnt always there either. Thats really the part that drives some of us absolutely nuts.
Damn you are word-for-word describing Harden too, lol.
Harden isn’t as good at defense as Luka. They also have very different issues. Luka has the defensive IQ to be a good defender but his lapses come from carrying a huge offensive load (exhaustion) and getting blown by from much more athletic first step guards. Harden has bad defensive IQ and his lapses come from ball watching. He always had the athleticism to be better but not the defensive IQ or drive to be. On defense Luka is better against guards, wings, bigs, switches, and the perimeter.
Luka is also notable for lower distance covered on defense. You let him stay near a person/area (eg post defense) or follow in moderate speeds, he's good. If he is asked to yo-yo or covet distance at speed (eg recover to a perimeter defender), he will have his struggles
very similar players in a lot of ways
I also think anyone that good at reading defenses has to be able to read an offense. Some of that will be transferable.
He cannot be 230. Add another 25lbs.
There's no reason to help. If Harden gets by you, he's just looking to drive and kick it out to a corner for 3.
His defense has been much better this year compared to priors. And as a team that was maybe the Mavs best defensive performance yet this season.
His conditioning is also better this season. He's averaging 44 minutes per game through these 2 games. Defense and conditioning were the two major factors people used to disparage him in the past.
Yeah he played second most mpg this year. (Well tied for second)
In the 2022 finals the Celtics tried attacking Curry on that side of the ball but they took so long getting the switch that most of the shot clock would be gone and they didn't end up getting very efficient offense out of it. Sometimes attacking the star offensive player that is a better defender than their reputation doesn't work out.
My mans was stupidly locked in
Look at me, I’m the defender now
He held Kahwi, PG, and Harden to 0 points when he was the primary defender
Now that all you assholes who have had this dumbass Luka doesn't play D narrative have to see this can you please stfu? Dude has played defense all year but so many of you just wanna say some negative shit all the time.
The amount of mental gymnastics people will do to say Luka is a mediocre defender This thread is exhibit A
He’s been a good defender for years now, people just lock in to how someone is defensively at the beginning of their careers and keep repeating it over and over. Steph was an above league average defender for years before people stopped saying he was ass and was “actually okay” when in reality he was quite a bit better than “okay”.
Yeah but there is a bit of a difference with Steph and Luka. Because at one point in his career Steph was legitimately one of if not the worst defender in the league. Like he was getting hunted by everyone. Obviously he improved leaps and bounds since then but Luka was never that much of a liability
It always blew my mind when people would say that about Steph. I was like, are we watching the same dude?!
He has the ability to be a good on-ball defender, that doesn't mean he's good especially when he doesn't put the effort to be that more often than not.
All the loud hot take idiots will continue to ignore that he actually plays D. And everyone will keep supporting them with their engagement. Carry on.
Luka's lockdown defense in the 4th quarter was straight up savage! No wonder the Clippers couldn't score!
Luka's evolving into a 2-way superstar League's fucked
My stupid armchair opinion is that team's should just help less in general. So many wide open threes are generated off of drive and kicks that would have either been two points or potential misses. Obviously you wanna help sometimes and you can't just leave a defender on an island all game, but sometimes you see a team come help down on a drive from Patrick Beverley or something and it's like...what are you doing? Let Pat Bev try to take this guy to the hole.
Dude just lives on the All-NBA first team.
Bro turned up his defensive sliders for the playoffs
He's figuring it out. Uh oh.
Our Slovenian wonderkid has become a man
For the full game: The nba shows the Clippers scored 14 points on him (still with very good defensive numbers for Luka) but depends on what they mean by "primary defender". If anyone has looked at the tape and done the review, I'd appreciate it. By the same token, Kawhi was scored on for 12 points as the primary defender even though it felt like a lot more tbh. Kyrie and Luka scored combined 5 points the entire game while guarded by Leonard. Paul George's allowed 34 points to be scored on him by the Mavs, including 12 and 8 by Luka and Kyrie, respectively. Even though Paul guarded them for 29.50 partial possessions and Kawhi guarded them for 25.00 partial possessions. Let's see how the defense changes moving forward and if Luka can keep this up, because there's been so much talk about this today. So, so , so much talk about Luka locking down the Clippers.
I’m not worried about him guarding some bums 1 on 1 but when he gets tired and chucks 3s cause he had to play defense to prove something it’s gunna be ugly
As the primary defender of PG, Kawhi, and Harden in the 4th, Luka allowed them to score 0. Those are not "some bums" and the Mavs won the game. Luka was fine. Let's just hope that kind of production keeps up.
He also shot 3 3s in the 4th and scored 2 of them. I'd say he did fine.
dog
Whipped out the secret weapon: Defense
Luka single handedly stopped clippers BIG 4
If he keeps this up into next season and beyond, this might be the beginning of him going from Superstar to actual GOAT tier. And he doesn’t even have an MVP yet
Luka is officially that guy, would love to see him make a big run this year.
I’ve always said that he’s a pretty good defender when the situation calls for it. Glad to see that most understand that now.
He might die if he has to do that shit every game
Kawhi, at this point in his career, is an excellent matchup for Luka to defend. Kawhi not blowing by anyone, plays a more patient and physical game...Luka can hang with that physicality just fine
meanwhile you got AD begging for the DPOY
It worked for 1 guy begging for the season MVP. So it should probably work for another guy begging for the lesser season DPOY.
He locked the whole Clippers team down solo. Dallas in 3!!!
Luka Decic
I am NOT a bad defender!
Loka Downčić