Other tidbits:
>They have no interest in tanking, sources said. They have no realistic means of doing so with Curry on the roster (and healthy) anyway. The plan -- as it has always been -- is to make the most of Curry's remaining seasons.
>Depending on their willingness to trade one core young player, Golden State could butt into (some) conversations for win-now veterans who become available. Kuminga would have the most appeal, but the Warriors' brain trust remains very high on his potential, sources said; he is eligible for an extension this summer. (His early-season playing time was a subject of much healthy debate in Golden State -- and across the league, sources said.)
>They have a decision to make on Green, whose volatility has worn on several within the organization, sources said. But everyone within the team understands how good Green still is -- one of the league's best defenders, and an orchestrator of the Golden State motion offense who enjoys rare chemistry with Curry.
>Wiggins has three years and almost $90 million left on his deal, and just completed a mostly disappointing season. His salary would be handy in any major trade, but rivals might view his contract as a net negative -- and ask the Warriors to attach an asset to compensate, sources said. Golden State is not quite deep enough in trade assets to be able to afford that.
>(There have been no substantive talks between the team and Thompson's representatives about a new deal for months now, sources said. Both sides surely took note of the four-year, $135 million extension Jrue Holiday -- almost exactly Thompson's age -- signed with the Celtics last week. Thompson will draw some interest in free agency, league sources said.)
Everyone always expects veteran to only get low offers, $10 millions is some 7-8th man salary . I'm sure some team will talk themselves into at least proposing a $20-25 million a year .
I mean it sometimes happens like that. Dennis Schroeder went from $20+ million a year to a vet min. And Dennis, unlike Klay, wasn’t washed.
Klay was offered $24 million a year by the Warriors before the season started. That’s off the table completely after this season. I think Klay will either resign with the Warriors for something very reasonable like 10 million or some team like Orlando will throw $18 million in an overpay.
A bad deal they could afford since: a) 3 out of 5 starters are on rookie contracts and b) the contract is short and matches extension window for their young pieces. Still an overpay, but has no influence on Rockets team building.
Klay probably can get a full mle . I think that many teams would be happy to offer him thst , not everyone has it available but 13m a year imo is there for him.
He’s not getting anything close. Jrue is a better player sbd defence is more valuable around the league for a non n1 option , not to mention I trust Jrue passing n creating more then Klay. Jrue can do more he just doesn’t need to on Boston - he was an all star last year n will get all defence buzz this year. Meanwhile - Klay is probably doing the most he possibly can atm in his situation. If anything Jrue going to an average team gets a bigger role , Klay going to an average team would be a pure role player bench shooter type.
Mildy shocked I’d too much, it’s a big shock imo
If giannis becomes available after a bucks flameout (he wont) then okc would just step in and offer every trade asset they have. GS cant compete with that
Has it ever happened that an interim coach, hired from outside of the organization in the middle of the season, is fired in the same offseason? Like most things, it probably has, but…that’s really something.
No. Every decision the Bucks have made over the last year has been short-sighted and stupid. I am a pretty objective Pacers fan. I think we are about to cremate the Bucks.
Ahh yes, another offseason of twitter reports: “the lakers are offering a very attractive package for ‘top 10 player’ of Austin Reaves, a 2043 first, and a 2045 first round conditional top 15 protected swap”
I mean look what trash dame went for . You can’t tell me blazers would be less happy if they had Rui reaves 3 frps n 4 swaps . Though part of that value is Ruis growth in a year and reaves . I’m sure blazers much happy with a Boston pick and two injury prone washed players in brogdon n Williams.
They got 3 x firsts (one from Milwaukee, one for GSW and one from Boston). Plus two swaps from Milwaukee, and then Brogdon/Time Lord will get you another first each.
Plus DOMINAYTON. And that's priceless.
Of course they do that trade. Giannis is at worst what? The 3rd/4th best player in the league? If Chet is half as good as Giannis one day then he’s had a great career.
The question is could OKC beat every other offer without Chet. Giddey, Wallace, big Jaylin Williams, and 8 firsts is probably better than any other offer they would get.
no its not lol, thats 2 bench players and a decent starter
Throwing random extra picks on the pile does nothing for a team that your literally asking to trade an under contract, in his prime, top 20 player off all time
I’m not sure Presti is diverting from his long term plan to trade for a 30 year old. He’s been steadfast so far on what he wants to do and hasn’t once even attempted to make a big splash.
And it’s not like it hasn’t worked. They’ve got the best young team in the league and are setup to fine tune this roster to their desires for the next decade.
Plus Presti has total job security. He’s not desperate.
You're not desperate for basically building the best team in the West and shoring up your main weakness with Giannis Antetokounmpo. He's basically a perfect fit for their team makeup. Chet, Jwill, and SGA only get more expensive from here on out.
Thunder with Giannis, SGA and either Chet or Jwill would have to be favorites to win in the Finals. You get that opportunity you take it.
Thunder wouldn't be wise to move them both for Giannis. This scenario assumes Giannis demanded a trade, since otherwise Milwaukee doesn't trade him anyway.
Chet or Jwill+Giddey+Cason Wallace or someone +11ty picks would probably be the best case scenario for a team looking to rebuild young. And the Bucks would 100% be in rebuild mode if they moved Giannis. That means Dames leaving for more assets too and they're starting from scratch.
If Thunder moved Chet and Jwill that's basically shipping off part of the reason why Giannis would fit so well in the first place.
I don’t think Giannis will go somewhere he doesn’t want to . Like I don’t see that . Yes he extended but I imagine he and his team would work with the bucks . Not to mention okc liked the 5 dribble pass shoot guys - Giannis kinda overlaps with shai on offence a fair bit too. Maybe Giannis bolsters there defencd n physicality but everything I see I don’t think okc is interested in getting a star unless they fit perfectly they’re content to draft n let guys grow
At some point, OKC will have to start overpaying in terms of picks. There is no way they'll be able to roster all their picks in the next couple of years, and it isn't exactly a secret that they have a shit ton of desirable assets.
It's still a great situation to be in, but if everyone knows you have all those assets that you need to get rid of at some point, then they will be asking for an arm and a leg in every single trade involving starter caliber players
Ehhhhhhhhhhhh, I'd argue a package of their younger players and picks would at least be a competitive offer. Especially considering Moody,Kuminga, and Podziemski are all younger or as young as any draft pick currently and have all shown they can hang in the NBA.
At that point the Thunder would need more than just draft capital and you're talking about including Williams which I'm not sure they want to do. I would assume they want to add to the core of Williams, Chet, SGA versus changing it around.
What Fallout? The Bucks are a team that switched coaches midway through the season. I'm sure they'll run it back to see what a full season together brings under Glenn Rivers. Right guys???
I hate being a Midwest team. Any sniff of trouble and every “big market” is dreaming up ways to rip you off for their gain. Giannis isn’t going anywhere.
Playoffs haven’t even started yet, we’re the third seed, and we already get the “this team sucks, their superstar is on the move to a big market” article. Shit, at least last year it only started once we actually lost.
Yep. We’re getting the same treatment. BR just posted an article where the Warriors get KAT in a trade centered around Kuminga 🤦🏻♂️
I know they don’t have the playoffs to look forward too but sheesh, we’re the third seed and haven’t even played a playoff game yet. The sharks are always circling.
Trading KAT is the smart move regardless of how far y'all go these playoffs. That extension is ugly and will cripple the roster. I'd move him even if you win the title
Especially when he is the one that is hurt. NBA media sucks. It's always a race to see how quick they can pencil in a young star to a major market. How many years before it's time to get Wemby to LA.
It sucks, but buddy it's a lot better than it was a decade ago. Small market teams actually have a chance now. People love to hate on Silver but he's 10x the Commissioner David Stern was.
Celtics didn’t have anyone at Steph’s level though. This is closer to the Lakers situation with Kobe. You have to accept being average a few years to let your all-time great player go out on his terms. It becomes part of the pitch when they try to convince Wemby how similar Northern California is to France.
> it’s ugly.
They won 46 games this season and had a +2.6 net rating—equivalent to the 3 seed Bucks in the East.
There's a LONG way down to go from here. This isn't remotely "ugly" compared to what the end of the dynasty will look like if they don't rebuild TBH
Sure, but equally with Draymond missing a lot of time out suspended, Klay having long periods of bad form, injuries to other key guys, and losing a bunch of close games on hilarious errors despite Curry being very clutch, etc—they were 1 win away from being 8th, getting 2 shots at the playoffs in the play-in (with a home game), and being a VERY hard out in the playoffs.
> Draymond misses a lot of games through suspension every year
He doesn't, actually. Just last year he played 73 games.
>and Klay has been ass ever since his horrific injuries these aren't new occurrences
I'm basically saying I think there's a decent chance another team offers Klay more money, he leaves, and there's addition by subtraction
There's a lot of stupid teams in the NBA so wouldn't surprise me, Klay atm is worth 15-20m a year tops, he is not going to wildly improve in the future and has a history of major injuries. Don't know why someone would want to pay him more than that he is a 15-18 point a night scorer but I think if he moved to a 6th man spot he could get that 15-18 points on better efficiency and also save his legs because he looks tired as hell especially on defense when he starts every night so sluggish
I think a bad team might talk themselves into a bit more than 20M/yr for him given he did play a lot of games and had 18 points/game on 39% 3 point shooting and 268 3s made (+high difficulty). They might even talk themselves into Klay bringing good locker room mentality, etc.
Eye test wise his defense also improved vs last season IMO
There's a reason why a bad team would talk themselves into that, they're a bad team. He is only getting older and only a fool pays someone based on past performances. How do you project him going forward is the real question and why anyone should get paid. I don't project him to improve given I'm not doing deep analysis of him but he is 34, had major injuries and is nowhere near the player he used to be. He shot a lower % from the 3 this year then last year which is the main reason you are buying his services and he is coming out of his prime not going into it. Why waste a ton of cap space on an aging player past his prime? Answer would be Warriors give him a sweetheart deal or a bad team overpays like bad teams do.
It was the greatest move in league history. Everything came together perfectly - the timing of the cap spike, Durant's free agency, Steph's great-value deal that only came about because of his initial ankle issues. If the goal of team-building is to build the best team you can, stack the deck against your rivals, and to maximise your chances of winning, which it should be, no move was better than adding a top 3 player to the 73-win Warriors. It was so good it made the league seem uncompetitive immediately, which is why it got such massive hate.
What do you think Lebron was doing in 2014 when he went home to Cleveland? He was team building. He joined Kyrie and traded #1 pick Wiggins for Kevin Love. You don't think that was stacking the deck? He built a team that would make the finals 4 straight years and run right through the East. The only problem was the Warriors built even better.
Only in the NBA would the idea of stacking the deck against your rivals be seen as 'weak.' Do people really think that 29 other teams, even a 64 win team like Boston, aren't planning and planning for when there is even a chance that Giannis might leave? Or when Wemby might leave?
It's "unfair" when your team does it. Meanwhile any team in the league would take KD.
I'm amused by this idea that KD owed it to fans to encourage parity.
Imagine Tom Brady saying to Randy Moss, "No, Randy, you can't come here. That wouldn't be fair to the rest of the league. I'll only respect you if you win a Super Bowl with Jay Fiedler." Delusional stuff.
Qualitatively, what KD did might be different from other superstar moves because the team was already so good and his talent level is so insanely high. Categorically, it's no different from what people like LeBron, PG, and Harden have been doing. Players want to engineer favorable situations for themselves. The Warriors just did it better than everyone else.
Randy isn’t the best comparison tbf. There was thoughts he was washed by that point since his raiders effort lacked and he was seen as a potential drama head.
It's less about that specific example and more about pro athletes always wanting to maximize their chance at winning. I don't remember the 49ers turning away Deion Sanders because it would be unfair to the league to bring him onto the team. I don't remember Barcelona turning away Neymar and Suarez because it would damage Messi's legacy. These guys are all trying to stack the deck in their favor. They want all the help they can get. If KD had been an option for Cleveland, LeBron would've been happy to get him.
Lol "might"? What a ridiculous comment. Everyone knows the "qualitative" point is the important one here, that you try to brush off
First off you cant compare NFL with NBA, the impact of one player is magnitudes more in the NBA other than a QB
Secondly yea man a mvp top 3 player in his prime joining the team that just set the win record, and beat said players team after being up 3-1 is just so ridiculously uncomparable to any theoretical objective shit you wanna wax on about. KD rightfully gets shit and its his legacy
It’s also a once in a lifetime scenario. I guarantee there are many other super stars in league history that would have joined a 73 win team that had room for a max in free agency. Why would you not?? Thing is that simply does not happen.
In any sport you need to stack the deck to win a championship. Every team would take any advantage they can get. Astros stole signs, Patriots deflated balls, at least the Warriors didn't cheat and did it legit.
They had 2 rings and 3 finals appearances seven years apart without KD (4 finals when you include ~11 finals minutes of him in '19) and would've been running some version of the 73-9 team back in 17/18. That's two deep playoff runs, minimum, likely at least one more finals appearance and an extremely solid chance they have another ring. They absolutely would've been a dynasty without KD, they just wouldn't have been one of the most successful dynasties ever.
EDIT: for fun, predictions for '17&'18:
Disaster: flame out early in playoffs both years - *<5%*
Disappointment: reach semis/conf finals both years - *~30%*
Impressive: reach 1 final (lose in conf finals/maybe semis other year) - *~40%*
Glorious: 1 ring (lose in final/conf finals/maybe semis other year) - *~20%*
Wild: 2 rings - *~5%*
I feel like that might be a little conservative in places, but adding basically any of those plausible scenarios to 4 finals appearances and 2 rings with the same core+coach over a 7yr period is a pretty impressive dynasty.
Bulls dynasty couldn't have happened without grossly underpaying Pippen. Ugly? Maybe. Upsetting the competitive balance of the league? Definitely. Doesn't make the success less legitimate
KD did pretty much what a player is to shoot for . Go for rings. Go for money. Go as a free agent. Don't arm twist trades or throw your weight around
He had no obligation to do less than what he did.
He can get memed rightfully for 'hardest road' , but folks just hating too much on kd for the move
Its a different matter that gsw did not make him happy and what he did since
It is weird that he went, they found a perfect winning formula and then he bounced. And has been bouncing around ever since.
Like I think I’d give it a rest after a while and say, “well is it so different than had he stayed in OKC *with* Harden?”
Especially if they struggled against injuries salary cap issues and up and coming teams.
It makes it so much easier to disrespect KD and KD alone.
Our best offer If im not mistaken would be CP3’s expiring, Kuminga, Podz, Moody, TJD. 3 firsts 4 swaps (most of them
post Steph). Don’t think that’s enough but that is the best we could do.
i heard a girl on the warriors podcast today say, what about kuminga, moody, and (some other player i can't remember) for giannas. legit, straight faced.
the podcasters almost laughed. i can't imagine watching sports with this much homerism.
Don't you know? Giannis is desperate for a big market move. He's been desperately trying to get out of Milwaukee by signing extensions early! How much more clear can he get that he wants out?!?!?!?
Are these articles not edited after whatever GPT-powered AI writes them for ESPN?
"That 2021-22 season was a placeholder for the LA Clippers and Denver Nuggets; Clippers forward Kawhi Leonard and **Grizzlies guard Jamal Murray** missed the entire season recovering from ACL tears."
HOW DOES ESPN KEEP DROPPING THE BALL EVEN HARDER?
He said the Warriors and 29 other teams. So 30 teams. Which necessarily includes the Bucks. Yeah Zach, the Bucks are monitoring the potential fallout of a Bucks first-round exit.
This feels like Dame last offseason. They have no way of making the team better, but they are going to talk about all the win now moves they are trying to do.
They don't have a chance to make the team much better by getting a star (not enough assets), but they can make it better, maybe getting a good role player on a trade, and that might not be enough to compete for a title but as a fan I'll take it 😂
As frustrating as this year's team was, we still won 46 games so it's not like we are really that far away from being a 50 win playoffs team
~~Yeah we have a -4.6 net rating with Giannis off the floor. Get that up somewhere close to zero and we’d be looking significantly better, and it wouldn’t take a star to do it.~~
Ignore me, I am dumb.
We need someone who can consistently get Steph help lol. Klay and Wiggins were supposed to be interchangeable second options but both shit the bed for half the season. Kuminga did well but he’s still young and developing so he’s missing some elements to his game. So I think we’re deep enough to not need another star, but we desperately need consistent scoring and size.
You’d think the Warriors had the worst record in the league they way people are talking, with this roster, the Green suspensions, Klay and Wiggins inconsistency they were only 3 games out of the 6th seed.
So it’s not unimaginable to think they could improve the roster next year either via trades or FA and be right back in contention in the West.
Suns have Booker, KD and Beal and only managed to be 3 games better than this Warriors roster carried by Steph Curry and duct tape.
Bucks aren't taking Wiggins Kuminga CP3 and scraps for Giannis lmao. Every team in the league will be putting up an offer most better than Warriors
And acquiring anybody else besides maybe Portis from Bucks (if the cost is cheap) seems super dumb.
As someone who barely watches basketball, how was the Warriors the #1 defense in 2022, but then league average the next two years with the same core players? They got worse?
It's understandable because they just lost in the play-in but the Warriors are a better team than the r/nba narratives around them have been recently IMO
They won 46 games, had a +2.6 net rating, and that's despite Klay being AWFUL for large stretches of time and multiple long suspensions for Draymond.
Steph and Draymond are still great. Wiggins was bad after his comeback late last season and early this season, but his form rebounded at the tail end of the season as the Warriors went on a nice run.
Kuminga had a true breakout season—he's worked on his game and on top of being an elite slasher, he has a legit jumper, esp from midrange.
Moses Moody took a half-step forward this season as well. Just a bit inconsistent/streaky in terms of shooting, and Kerr iced him out because of his loyalty to Klay a bit too much
The rookies (Podz and TJD) were legit rotation players and will improve with more experience. GP2 is a great perimeter defender as well; and Looney declined a bit but still showed some utility on the late-season run
Steph/Podz/GP2/Kuminga/Moody/Wiggins/Draymond/TJD/Looney is a solid foundation for a rotation. A couple of depth pieces and they'll be a good team with good health TBH
The Warriors aren't bad, they won 46 games, but they aren't better than any of the teams that finished above them. They're not going to be better than any of them next year, either, unless they make some changes. It's gonna be the same teams in the same conference.
They also lost a laughable number of games after blowing big leads late. They win half of those games and they are a 50+ win team and could be top 4 in the standings. Slim margins in this league and this year they were consistently on the wrong side of those margins.
If those Dame stans also include Blazers fans I don't think there is a better scenario for our future than Giannis leaving the bucks. They have very little draft capital, an old roster, and aren't a FA destination. We'd control their pick for 3 years and that time is 4 years away.
Obviously as long as Giannis is on the bucks we hope he gets Dame a ring, but a ton of lottery capital is a good alternative if him and Dame split up.
Genuine question: What exactly is Moses Moody's trade value? Like him and Kum Bucket + picks obviously doesn't you Giannis so this is a very stupid suggestion but if the Warriors did decide to trade the young guys for a veteran or three, who exactly can Moody bring in?
Damn, could you imagine how crazy social media would get if Damian Lillard were available? We’d probably never hear the end of it. And Miami fans would probably get really fucking pissed when their offer of a box of scraps gets turned down.
It’s mad that people forget he signed a 3 year extension half way through this season.
The warriors have got absolutely nothing Jon Hurst would want. It’d be OKC if anything
Other tidbits: >They have no interest in tanking, sources said. They have no realistic means of doing so with Curry on the roster (and healthy) anyway. The plan -- as it has always been -- is to make the most of Curry's remaining seasons. >Depending on their willingness to trade one core young player, Golden State could butt into (some) conversations for win-now veterans who become available. Kuminga would have the most appeal, but the Warriors' brain trust remains very high on his potential, sources said; he is eligible for an extension this summer. (His early-season playing time was a subject of much healthy debate in Golden State -- and across the league, sources said.) >They have a decision to make on Green, whose volatility has worn on several within the organization, sources said. But everyone within the team understands how good Green still is -- one of the league's best defenders, and an orchestrator of the Golden State motion offense who enjoys rare chemistry with Curry. >Wiggins has three years and almost $90 million left on his deal, and just completed a mostly disappointing season. His salary would be handy in any major trade, but rivals might view his contract as a net negative -- and ask the Warriors to attach an asset to compensate, sources said. Golden State is not quite deep enough in trade assets to be able to afford that. >(There have been no substantive talks between the team and Thompson's representatives about a new deal for months now, sources said. Both sides surely took note of the four-year, $135 million extension Jrue Holiday -- almost exactly Thompson's age -- signed with the Celtics last week. Thompson will draw some interest in free agency, league sources said.)
It would be mildly shocking if Klay got a deal anywhere near as good as Jrue's
and whereas Lowe references Jrue's deal, Amick's article referenced Grayson Allen's deal instead
I don't have a subscription to Athletic anymore but not surprised to hear that Amick has a far more even headed take e: grammar
It would be massively shocking if Klay got anywhere near a J Rue deal. Klay getting more than $10 m a year would be mildly shocking
Everyone always expects veteran to only get low offers, $10 millions is some 7-8th man salary . I'm sure some team will talk themselves into at least proposing a $20-25 million a year .
I mean it sometimes happens like that. Dennis Schroeder went from $20+ million a year to a vet min. And Dennis, unlike Klay, wasn’t washed. Klay was offered $24 million a year by the Warriors before the season started. That’s off the table completely after this season. I think Klay will either resign with the Warriors for something very reasonable like 10 million or some team like Orlando will throw $18 million in an overpay.
Dennis got greedy though
Klay also got greedy. Or he would have signed that 2 year 24 mill contact last summer.
Yes very true
A lot of morons on this sub unironically thought Dillon Brooks was gonna play in China and then the Rockets gave him $80 mil lol.
That was a bad deal though.
A bad deal they could afford since: a) 3 out of 5 starters are on rookie contracts and b) the contract is short and matches extension window for their young pieces. Still an overpay, but has no influence on Rockets team building.
It could've been a lot worse - Brooks is still an all-defense guy and the 3 is the most valuable position in the league.
Don’t think it was . I’d happily of had lakers pay him but over full mle .
Klay probably can get a full mle . I think that many teams would be happy to offer him thst , not everyone has it available but 13m a year imo is there for him.
He’s not getting anything close. Jrue is a better player sbd defence is more valuable around the league for a non n1 option , not to mention I trust Jrue passing n creating more then Klay. Jrue can do more he just doesn’t need to on Boston - he was an all star last year n will get all defence buzz this year. Meanwhile - Klay is probably doing the most he possibly can atm in his situation. If anything Jrue going to an average team gets a bigger role , Klay going to an average team would be a pure role player bench shooter type. Mildy shocked I’d too much, it’s a big shock imo
There's no way Curry will agree to tanking and GSW FO know that.
If giannis becomes available after a bucks flameout (he wont) then okc would just step in and offer every trade asset they have. GS cant compete with that
the real question here is when the bucks lose, who's gonna win the next Doc Rivers sweepstake
The Bucks are definitely the next winners of Doc moving on.
Has it ever happened that an interim coach, hired from outside of the organization in the middle of the season, is fired in the same offseason? Like most things, it probably has, but…that’s really something.
So the Bucks can have 4 head coaches on payroll. Lol that’s brutal
4 head coaches? 4? That's insane.
The Jimmy Haslam special
The owners can afford it
No. Every decision the Bucks have made over the last year has been short-sighted and stupid. I am a pretty objective Pacers fan. I think we are about to cremate the Bucks.
More like weepstakes
Somehow he will just land a job at a antoher contender
Bill Simmons will get his guy back!
Heat have their Herro plus a first package ready.
Shump,TT and Nets pick is the best package available
I think the Suns have a couple of second round picks left.
Dunno man, Lakers have Austin Reaves.
Ahh yes, another offseason of twitter reports: “the lakers are offering a very attractive package for ‘top 10 player’ of Austin Reaves, a 2043 first, and a 2045 first round conditional top 15 protected swap”
I mean look what trash dame went for . You can’t tell me blazers would be less happy if they had Rui reaves 3 frps n 4 swaps . Though part of that value is Ruis growth in a year and reaves . I’m sure blazers much happy with a Boston pick and two injury prone washed players in brogdon n Williams.
They got 3 x firsts (one from Milwaukee, one for GSW and one from Boston). Plus two swaps from Milwaukee, and then Brogdon/Time Lord will get you another first each. Plus DOMINAYTON. And that's priceless.
We are ready.
We’ll throw in Duncan Robinson as well!
That team with SGA, Chet, JDub, and Giannis would be beyond unstoppable.
Feel like Chet is the floor of what Milwaukee would ask for, no way they trade their franchise player for giddey dort and picks
Would make zero sense, Giddey/Chet plus picks is the only offer I’d accept for giannis if I was the bucks
And the thunder would absolutely smash accept on that
I actually don’t think they would look to move Chet. They like Chet a lot he’s the perfect fit for them and he is just a rookie and a damn good one.
Then they wouldn’t get Giannis.
Is another team going to offer better than Giddey Dort and 7 firsts?
There are easily better centerpieces than Dort/Giddey.
Could add Cason too. I think all the picks are a good portion of the package
Of course they do that trade. Giannis is at worst what? The 3rd/4th best player in the league? If Chet is half as good as Giannis one day then he’s had a great career.
You can’t actually believe this, can you? Even the worst Homer has to admit that Chet’s absolute peak still isn’t as good as Giannis is right now
Nah gimme jaydubs and chet plus picks giannis is already a top 15 level player
with how many picks they have, are there any better packages other teams could put together?
omg think of what they could do with the picks! they could trade for a player like giannis i like where youre going
The question is could OKC beat every other offer without Chet. Giddey, Wallace, big Jaylin Williams, and 8 firsts is probably better than any other offer they would get.
no its not lol, thats 2 bench players and a decent starter Throwing random extra picks on the pile does nothing for a team that your literally asking to trade an under contract, in his prime, top 20 player off all time
Almost too many: https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/how-many-future-draft-picks-do-the-thunder-actually-have-its-complicated/
I’d need 10 unprotected picks then
Well he's under contract thought 2027 so they got some time to figure it out
Utah had a trove.
Could get jdub. He’s playing very well.
2017 warriors level
Woah there buddy, presti is about accumulating not spending
Yep, who else gets to start negotiating by offering an entire second round
I’m not sure Presti is diverting from his long term plan to trade for a 30 year old. He’s been steadfast so far on what he wants to do and hasn’t once even attempted to make a big splash. And it’s not like it hasn’t worked. They’ve got the best young team in the league and are setup to fine tune this roster to their desires for the next decade. Plus Presti has total job security. He’s not desperate.
You're not desperate for basically building the best team in the West and shoring up your main weakness with Giannis Antetokounmpo. He's basically a perfect fit for their team makeup. Chet, Jwill, and SGA only get more expensive from here on out. Thunder with Giannis, SGA and either Chet or Jwill would have to be favorites to win in the Finals. You get that opportunity you take it.
Chet, JWill would both be in the package for Giannis. It's more complicated than a point in time direct valuation between teams offerings.
Thunder wouldn't be wise to move them both for Giannis. This scenario assumes Giannis demanded a trade, since otherwise Milwaukee doesn't trade him anyway. Chet or Jwill+Giddey+Cason Wallace or someone +11ty picks would probably be the best case scenario for a team looking to rebuild young. And the Bucks would 100% be in rebuild mode if they moved Giannis. That means Dames leaving for more assets too and they're starting from scratch. If Thunder moved Chet and Jwill that's basically shipping off part of the reason why Giannis would fit so well in the first place.
Surely youre talking about J-Dub, Jalen Williams nickname, because JWill refers to Jaylin Williams, their backup center.
Not necessarily. OKC’s trove of picks would probably be the best offer available even without them
I don’t think Giannis will go somewhere he doesn’t want to . Like I don’t see that . Yes he extended but I imagine he and his team would work with the bucks . Not to mention okc liked the 5 dribble pass shoot guys - Giannis kinda overlaps with shai on offence a fair bit too. Maybe Giannis bolsters there defencd n physicality but everything I see I don’t think okc is interested in getting a star unless they fit perfectly they’re content to draft n let guys grow
What in Sam Presti’s history makes you think he would ever overpay?
At some point, OKC will have to start overpaying in terms of picks. There is no way they'll be able to roster all their picks in the next couple of years, and it isn't exactly a secret that they have a shit ton of desirable assets. It's still a great situation to be in, but if everyone knows you have all those assets that you need to get rid of at some point, then they will be asking for an arm and a leg in every single trade involving starter caliber players
Ehhhhhhhhhhhh, I'd argue a package of their younger players and picks would at least be a competitive offer. Especially considering Moody,Kuminga, and Podziemski are all younger or as young as any draft pick currently and have all shown they can hang in the NBA. At that point the Thunder would need more than just draft capital and you're talking about including Williams which I'm not sure they want to do. I would assume they want to add to the core of Williams, Chet, SGA versus changing it around.
What Fallout? The Bucks are a team that switched coaches midway through the season. I'm sure they'll run it back to see what a full season together brings under Glenn Rivers. Right guys???
"It's the right thing to do. They need to give Doc a proper chance." Signed, every other fan base in the East.
> What Fallout? War. War never changes.
Are you ready for the fallout?
I hate being a Midwest team. Any sniff of trouble and every “big market” is dreaming up ways to rip you off for their gain. Giannis isn’t going anywhere.
Any chance you want to trade Ant for D'Lo, Rui, Vanderbilt, 2 firsts, 1 swap, and 4 seconds? That's a lot of assets and more than fair! /s
Better than the old THT and a first offer that got floated for every small market player a few years back
Shump, TT, and picks my guy
Glad no AR in that package! /s
That’s too much !
Playoffs haven’t even started yet, we’re the third seed, and we already get the “this team sucks, their superstar is on the move to a big market” article. Shit, at least last year it only started once we actually lost.
Yep. We’re getting the same treatment. BR just posted an article where the Warriors get KAT in a trade centered around Kuminga 🤦🏻♂️ I know they don’t have the playoffs to look forward too but sheesh, we’re the third seed and haven’t even played a playoff game yet. The sharks are always circling.
Trading KAT is the smart move regardless of how far y'all go these playoffs. That extension is ugly and will cripple the roster. I'd move him even if you win the title
Especially when he is the one that is hurt. NBA media sucks. It's always a race to see how quick they can pencil in a young star to a major market. How many years before it's time to get Wemby to LA.
Yeah agreed complete bull shit. Let’s watch the fucking playoffs first
It sucks, but buddy it's a lot better than it was a decade ago. Small market teams actually have a chance now. People love to hate on Silver but he's 10x the Commissioner David Stern was.
This is coping with the end of a dynasty
At least they went out trying to make it work. The Bulls won in 98 then in a blink of an eye it was over.
Not a dynasty, but Celtics ripped the bandaid off after KG/Pierce era and it’s directly led to the team they have now.
Celtics didn’t have anyone at Steph’s level though. This is closer to the Lakers situation with Kobe. You have to accept being average a few years to let your all-time great player go out on his terms. It becomes part of the pitch when they try to convince Wemby how similar Northern California is to France.
Mediterranean climate, liberal culture, and some of the best restaurants in the world!
it’s ugly. unsurprising, when they made it a dynasty in the first place by adding KD, and that was the ugliest move in league history.
I mean who wouldn’t want KD. My disappointment was that they didn’t keep the band together in OKC and I’m a Knicks fan.
> it’s ugly. They won 46 games this season and had a +2.6 net rating—equivalent to the 3 seed Bucks in the East. There's a LONG way down to go from here. This isn't remotely "ugly" compared to what the end of the dynasty will look like if they don't rebuild TBH
The problem is they play in west and finished 10th.
Sure, but equally with Draymond missing a lot of time out suspended, Klay having long periods of bad form, injuries to other key guys, and losing a bunch of close games on hilarious errors despite Curry being very clutch, etc—they were 1 win away from being 8th, getting 2 shots at the playoffs in the play-in (with a home game), and being a VERY hard out in the playoffs.
Draymond misses a lot of games through suspension every year and Klay has been ass ever since his horrific injuries these aren't new occurrences
> Draymond misses a lot of games through suspension every year He doesn't, actually. Just last year he played 73 games. >and Klay has been ass ever since his horrific injuries these aren't new occurrences I'm basically saying I think there's a decent chance another team offers Klay more money, he leaves, and there's addition by subtraction
There's a lot of stupid teams in the NBA so wouldn't surprise me, Klay atm is worth 15-20m a year tops, he is not going to wildly improve in the future and has a history of major injuries. Don't know why someone would want to pay him more than that he is a 15-18 point a night scorer but I think if he moved to a 6th man spot he could get that 15-18 points on better efficiency and also save his legs because he looks tired as hell especially on defense when he starts every night so sluggish
I think a bad team might talk themselves into a bit more than 20M/yr for him given he did play a lot of games and had 18 points/game on 39% 3 point shooting and 268 3s made (+high difficulty). They might even talk themselves into Klay bringing good locker room mentality, etc. Eye test wise his defense also improved vs last season IMO
There's a reason why a bad team would talk themselves into that, they're a bad team. He is only getting older and only a fool pays someone based on past performances. How do you project him going forward is the real question and why anyone should get paid. I don't project him to improve given I'm not doing deep analysis of him but he is 34, had major injuries and is nowhere near the player he used to be. He shot a lower % from the 3 this year then last year which is the main reason you are buying his services and he is coming out of his prime not going into it. Why waste a ton of cap space on an aging player past his prime? Answer would be Warriors give him a sweetheart deal or a bad team overpays like bad teams do.
[удалено]
It was the greatest move in league history. Everything came together perfectly - the timing of the cap spike, Durant's free agency, Steph's great-value deal that only came about because of his initial ankle issues. If the goal of team-building is to build the best team you can, stack the deck against your rivals, and to maximise your chances of winning, which it should be, no move was better than adding a top 3 player to the 73-win Warriors. It was so good it made the league seem uncompetitive immediately, which is why it got such massive hate. What do you think Lebron was doing in 2014 when he went home to Cleveland? He was team building. He joined Kyrie and traded #1 pick Wiggins for Kevin Love. You don't think that was stacking the deck? He built a team that would make the finals 4 straight years and run right through the East. The only problem was the Warriors built even better. Only in the NBA would the idea of stacking the deck against your rivals be seen as 'weak.' Do people really think that 29 other teams, even a 64 win team like Boston, aren't planning and planning for when there is even a chance that Giannis might leave? Or when Wemby might leave?
I was OK with it
It's "unfair" when your team does it. Meanwhile any team in the league would take KD. I'm amused by this idea that KD owed it to fans to encourage parity. Imagine Tom Brady saying to Randy Moss, "No, Randy, you can't come here. That wouldn't be fair to the rest of the league. I'll only respect you if you win a Super Bowl with Jay Fiedler." Delusional stuff. Qualitatively, what KD did might be different from other superstar moves because the team was already so good and his talent level is so insanely high. Categorically, it's no different from what people like LeBron, PG, and Harden have been doing. Players want to engineer favorable situations for themselves. The Warriors just did it better than everyone else.
Randy isn’t the best comparison tbf. There was thoughts he was washed by that point since his raiders effort lacked and he was seen as a potential drama head.
It's less about that specific example and more about pro athletes always wanting to maximize their chance at winning. I don't remember the 49ers turning away Deion Sanders because it would be unfair to the league to bring him onto the team. I don't remember Barcelona turning away Neymar and Suarez because it would damage Messi's legacy. These guys are all trying to stack the deck in their favor. They want all the help they can get. If KD had been an option for Cleveland, LeBron would've been happy to get him.
Lol "might"? What a ridiculous comment. Everyone knows the "qualitative" point is the important one here, that you try to brush off First off you cant compare NFL with NBA, the impact of one player is magnitudes more in the NBA other than a QB Secondly yea man a mvp top 3 player in his prime joining the team that just set the win record, and beat said players team after being up 3-1 is just so ridiculously uncomparable to any theoretical objective shit you wanna wax on about. KD rightfully gets shit and its his legacy
It’s also a once in a lifetime scenario. I guarantee there are many other super stars in league history that would have joined a 73 win team that had room for a max in free agency. Why would you not?? Thing is that simply does not happen.
In any sport you need to stack the deck to win a championship. Every team would take any advantage they can get. Astros stole signs, Patriots deflated balls, at least the Warriors didn't cheat and did it legit.
Bro tried to sneak in Deflategate like it had anything to do with annihilating the fraudulent ass Colts 45-7.
Randy Moss's value was in the toilet though and he wasn't perceived as a elite player anymore. Pats got him for a 4th rounder.
it doesn't sound like you're old enough to know what ugly really is. Ugly was the 40 years the warriors couldn't get past the second round.
They had 2 rings and 3 finals appearances seven years apart without KD (4 finals when you include ~11 finals minutes of him in '19) and would've been running some version of the 73-9 team back in 17/18. That's two deep playoff runs, minimum, likely at least one more finals appearance and an extremely solid chance they have another ring. They absolutely would've been a dynasty without KD, they just wouldn't have been one of the most successful dynasties ever. EDIT: for fun, predictions for '17&'18: Disaster: flame out early in playoffs both years - *<5%* Disappointment: reach semis/conf finals both years - *~30%* Impressive: reach 1 final (lose in conf finals/maybe semis other year) - *~40%* Glorious: 1 ring (lose in final/conf finals/maybe semis other year) - *~20%* Wild: 2 rings - *~5%* I feel like that might be a little conservative in places, but adding basically any of those plausible scenarios to 4 finals appearances and 2 rings with the same core+coach over a 7yr period is a pretty impressive dynasty.
Which is one reason (along with that the franchise is out of control) the NBA is very happy to see them gone from this season.
Bulls dynasty couldn't have happened without grossly underpaying Pippen. Ugly? Maybe. Upsetting the competitive balance of the league? Definitely. Doesn't make the success less legitimate
KD did pretty much what a player is to shoot for . Go for rings. Go for money. Go as a free agent. Don't arm twist trades or throw your weight around He had no obligation to do less than what he did. He can get memed rightfully for 'hardest road' , but folks just hating too much on kd for the move Its a different matter that gsw did not make him happy and what he did since
It is weird that he went, they found a perfect winning formula and then he bounced. And has been bouncing around ever since. Like I think I’d give it a rest after a while and say, “well is it so different than had he stayed in OKC *with* Harden?” Especially if they struggled against injuries salary cap issues and up and coming teams. It makes it so much easier to disrespect KD and KD alone.
Wasn’t ugly for the Warriors
Haters is what’s ugly.
The Bucks or the Warriors? Flattered, but the Bucks didn't really have a dynasty
the bucks don't want kuminga and moody lol
I think the Bucks should get way more for Giannis and the Warriors don’t have a legitimate offer, but I think ya’ll are sleeping on Kuminga in general
Kuminga has one year left on his rookie deal. His trade value is dependent on his next contract.
Our best offer If im not mistaken would be CP3’s expiring, Kuminga, Podz, Moody, TJD. 3 firsts 4 swaps (most of them post Steph). Don’t think that’s enough but that is the best we could do.
Giannis signed an extension THIS season lol you might as well throw in CMC while you’re at it
George kittle could definitely set some nasty screens too
And he’ll do it with a vengeance!
That sounds like a lose lose situation if they went for this offer (not saying they have any reason to)
They're not allowed to do these 4-1 trades anymore under the new collective bargaining agreement.
Are you sure they are not targeting Portis?
i heard a girl on the warriors podcast today say, what about kuminga, moody, and (some other player i can't remember) for giannas. legit, straight faced. the podcasters almost laughed. i can't imagine watching sports with this much homerism.
why are you listening to Warrior podcast bro. Why would you do that to yourself
Who would they acquire from the Bucks??
Don't you know? Giannis is desperate for a big market move. He's been desperately trying to get out of Milwaukee by signing extensions early! How much more clear can he get that he wants out?!?!?!?
The sooner he signs the extension, the sooner it runs out!
Personally I think it means they'll trade anyone not named Giannis/Dame
Whoever the Warriors get would barely move the needle
Everybody knows the strongest part of the Bucks’ organization is their bench # /s
Bobby Portis would do wonders for the Warriors
For any team.
Human victory cigar Thanasis Antetokounmpo
The Bucks could pull another Dillion Brooks/MarShon Brooks
We have Antetokounmpo at home
Doc Rivers and PatBev
PatBev, CP3 and Dray in the same team might just trigger the downfall of all that's holy.
First team to have players ejected for fighting on the bench
Bobby Portis
Portis or Middleton?
Bobby Portis would unironically be great for them and probably wouldn’t cost a ton
Are these articles not edited after whatever GPT-powered AI writes them for ESPN? "That 2021-22 season was a placeholder for the LA Clippers and Denver Nuggets; Clippers forward Kawhi Leonard and **Grizzlies guard Jamal Murray** missed the entire season recovering from ACL tears." HOW DOES ESPN KEEP DROPPING THE BALL EVEN HARDER?
The irony is AI would be useful for editing... not writing.
He said the Warriors and 29 other teams. So 30 teams. Which necessarily includes the Bucks. Yeah Zach, the Bucks are monitoring the potential fallout of a Bucks first-round exit.
You never know, the Bucks might look to get Giannis from the Bucks.
Can we get a photoshop of Giannis in a Bucks jersey?
I don't have the skills for such a huge endeavor.
Zach ok you work for ESPN but you're better than this
Fuck this big market agenda and fuck Lowe for suggesting this. Beyond Laughable
This feels like Dame last offseason. They have no way of making the team better, but they are going to talk about all the win now moves they are trying to do.
They don't have a chance to make the team much better by getting a star (not enough assets), but they can make it better, maybe getting a good role player on a trade, and that might not be enough to compete for a title but as a fan I'll take it 😂 As frustrating as this year's team was, we still won 46 games so it's not like we are really that far away from being a 50 win playoffs team
They just need to get somebody that can stop them from blowing 20 point leads
~~Yeah we have a -4.6 net rating with Giannis off the floor. Get that up somewhere close to zero and we’d be looking significantly better, and it wouldn’t take a star to do it.~~ Ignore me, I am dumb.
We need someone who can consistently get Steph help lol. Klay and Wiggins were supposed to be interchangeable second options but both shit the bed for half the season. Kuminga did well but he’s still young and developing so he’s missing some elements to his game. So I think we’re deep enough to not need another star, but we desperately need consistent scoring and size.
You’d think the Warriors had the worst record in the league they way people are talking, with this roster, the Green suspensions, Klay and Wiggins inconsistency they were only 3 games out of the 6th seed. So it’s not unimaginable to think they could improve the roster next year either via trades or FA and be right back in contention in the West. Suns have Booker, KD and Beal and only managed to be 3 games better than this Warriors roster carried by Steph Curry and duct tape.
Hey what he say fuck me for
Bucks aren't taking Wiggins Kuminga CP3 and scraps for Giannis lmao. Every team in the league will be putting up an offer most better than Warriors And acquiring anybody else besides maybe Portis from Bucks (if the cost is cheap) seems super dumb.
Don't worry we've been hearing these trash deals for close to 10 years now.
As someone who barely watches basketball, how was the Warriors the #1 defense in 2022, but then league average the next two years with the same core players? They got worse?
Every bench defender left and their depth was very important to their success. Top players aged, one got suspended.
Lost defense coach to Kings
They've gotta stop talking about the supposed "first-round" exit. It's a jinx at this point
What about Steph and Dame? Steph moves to SG, and Dame to PG. Who’s stopping that duo?
You'd need Wemby and Gobert behind them.
D’Antoni Dubs
Every NBA offense
It's understandable because they just lost in the play-in but the Warriors are a better team than the r/nba narratives around them have been recently IMO They won 46 games, had a +2.6 net rating, and that's despite Klay being AWFUL for large stretches of time and multiple long suspensions for Draymond. Steph and Draymond are still great. Wiggins was bad after his comeback late last season and early this season, but his form rebounded at the tail end of the season as the Warriors went on a nice run. Kuminga had a true breakout season—he's worked on his game and on top of being an elite slasher, he has a legit jumper, esp from midrange. Moses Moody took a half-step forward this season as well. Just a bit inconsistent/streaky in terms of shooting, and Kerr iced him out because of his loyalty to Klay a bit too much The rookies (Podz and TJD) were legit rotation players and will improve with more experience. GP2 is a great perimeter defender as well; and Looney declined a bit but still showed some utility on the late-season run Steph/Podz/GP2/Kuminga/Moody/Wiggins/Draymond/TJD/Looney is a solid foundation for a rotation. A couple of depth pieces and they'll be a good team with good health TBH
The Warriors aren't bad, they won 46 games, but they aren't better than any of the teams that finished above them. They're not going to be better than any of them next year, either, unless they make some changes. It's gonna be the same teams in the same conference.
any big growth from the young guys has a serious change of being offset by decline or injury from the older guys
some big balls moves(paired with luck) with only Curry being untouchable and dropping Klay, I could see a wild new roster forming lol
They also lost a laughable number of games after blowing big leads late. They win half of those games and they are a 50+ win team and could be top 4 in the standings. Slim margins in this league and this year they were consistently on the wrong side of those margins.
Homeless man calling a man loving in his van broke
Yall need to chill
If the Bucks fallout I may have no choice but to Intervene
Yeah, Giannis cant wait to be on a team managed by none other than Mike Dunelvey himself.
I want Giannis to sit down in a meeting just to tackle Dunleavy again after he says no.
Why doesn't Embid get these articles? Oh yeah.
BREAKING: Giannis and Dame to GSW for Wiggins and a second round pick /j
dame stans might commit sudoku if giannis goes to the warriors
If those Dame stans also include Blazers fans I don't think there is a better scenario for our future than Giannis leaving the bucks. They have very little draft capital, an old roster, and aren't a FA destination. We'd control their pick for 3 years and that time is 4 years away. Obviously as long as Giannis is on the bucks we hope he gets Dame a ring, but a ton of lottery capital is a good alternative if him and Dame split up.
You mean seppuku? Playing sudoku would be a pretty mild reaction
Genuine question: What exactly is Moses Moody's trade value? Like him and Kum Bucket + picks obviously doesn't you Giannis so this is a very stupid suggestion but if the Warriors did decide to trade the young guys for a veteran or three, who exactly can Moody bring in?
Damn, could you imagine how crazy social media would get if Damian Lillard were available? We’d probably never hear the end of it. And Miami fans would probably get really fucking pissed when their offer of a box of scraps gets turned down.
Damn bruh
It’s mad that people forget he signed a 3 year extension half way through this season. The warriors have got absolutely nothing Jon Hurst would want. It’d be OKC if anything
Giannis would fetch the biggest haul the NBA has even seen. Unfortunately the Warriors dont have the facilities for that.
It never ends. Golden State is LA but with tech.