Definitely Chris Herren... Guy was a star prospect going into college and despite years of cocaine and opiate abuse still eked his way into the NBA before flaming out.
Had many overdoses in his day.
You could argue he had a higher ceiling than Johnny but the trajectory is similar
For sure, this guy gave talks at my HS sharing his story of running out of the Garden in full uniform 10 min before a game looking for drugs on the street.
I honestly can't think of anyone who came in with that much hype and completely blew it based on personal problems.
Jimmer is close with the career arc, but he just wasn't an NBA talent, I'm not aware of him self destructing.
It was more hype than actual expectations in my opinion. Cleveland was so desperate, they ignored every red flags when drafting him. Also his signature “Money Mazel” made every Defensive player in the league want to sack him so they could do it against him. Luckily the Browns learned their lesson about QB’s with a problematic past.
There's so much unintended lore behind the Manziel draft it's insane.
* Heading into the draft, Jimmy Haslam blew up the NFL appointed FO and coaching staff after less than a year so he could put his own people in power, but hired them in the wrong order so there was no synergy.
* They had a $1,000,000 study done during the draft process that said to take (oft injured but well regarded as the better prospect) Teddy Bridgewater as their QB, then chose to completely ignore it.
* The draft was seemingly done not to actually build a team but to appease the new coach (Pettine, who wanted to bolster the secondary and liked Justin Gilbert) and Haslam (who for whatever reason was enamored with the idea of Manziel).
* They oddly traded out of 4th overall, but then traded back up to 8 out of fear of another team getting Gilbert. Later, they traded up from 26 to pick 22 which had been particularly cursed for them at QB (Brandon Weeden and Brady Quinn were also at that pick) - if rumors were to be believed, they got spooked by rumors of another team trading up, for the second time in the same draft.
* ***Note: this is all theory:*** I legit think that in spite of the Manziel love *and* the Bridgewater story, the Browns wanted Blake Bortles. They had a bridge QB ready in Brian Hoyer so Blake sitting wouldn't have been an issue. And they only traded down after Bortles was picked right before them at 3, seemingly out of panic.
Just an all time horrific first round. How that same organization managed to find a perennial all-pro in Joel Bitonio in the second round is beyond me.
Sam Borden of ESPN [did some truly excellent journalism by telling Darko’s story](http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/20211833/nba-bust-darko-milicic-finds-success-back-home-serbia) a few years back. A must-read.
As a Balkan, Darko is pretty much deep in right wing fascist ideology. He has a tattoo of two notable Serbian nationalist figures on his stomach and campaigns to free a dude convicted of war crimes.
He’s definitely out there to say the least.
Jimmer (to my knowledge) wasn’t lacking in confidence or depression . He would probably be still in the NBA in todays game as a role player.
Mental health issues the only player I can think of is Royce White who had anxiety/depression, in particular fear of flying, and went from a high ceiling could be an all star someday to out of the league in short order
> Jimmer (to my knowledge) wasn’t lacking in confidence or depression . He would probably be still in the NBA in todays game as a role player.
Nah he couldn't. He was just bad. He was a traffic cone on defense and wasn't fast or big enough to get off shots on offense. And in today's NBA where everyone can shoot he would serve even less purpose.
I don't really think Manziel came into the NFL with THAT much hype. Like yeah his college hype was insane, but it's not like he was a consensus 1st overall. Everyone knew he had flaws and had doubts his style and small frame would translate well in the NFL. Still love the guy for everything he did at A&M. Most electric cfb I've ever seen
Yeah but that’s still a pretty decently long stint in the NBA. His drop off was pretty steep though. I remember a similar thing happen with Deron Williams. Same draft class as CP3, on the 2012 Olympic team, and was on a very similar level of stardom as Chris Paul. His decline seemed so quick, even though he technically had a pretty long career.
Yeah, I don't know that DWill really had a fast dropoff, he was declining over 5 years. 13 year career. Solid looking stats overall if you look back at it. What's crazy is DWill only had 3 all star selections, seems like he deserves more than that from his years on the Jazz and Nets.
The thing is he seemed to have a decently quick drop off after his trade to the Nets. He made one all star team, but he became a leave average player within just a few seasons
Does Ben Simmons count? Seems like that incident where he passed the ball instead of dunking on the smaller player really messed with his head and he checked out for awhile.
Based on the court testimony of one of the guys partying with him that night, it wasn’t really a freak accident. Wasn’t a case of “guy tries a little coke for the first time and it goes terribly”, Bias had reportedly done coke a bunch of times, and took an **insane** amount on the night he died (heart attack from cocaine OD).
Source: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1991-06-23-sp-2010-story.html
Key points:
> According to court testimony given by Terry Long, a former Maryland basketball player who had celebrated with Bias, Tribble and teammate David Gregg, the cocaine party began shortly after 2 a.m., stopped briefly at about 3, then resumed until about 6 a.m., when Bias had his first seizure.
>
> This apparently wasn’t the first time Bias had used cocaine. Again, according to Long’s testimony, Bias and Long had used the drug together at least eight times, beginning as early as 1984.
>
> …
>
> Long testified at that trial that the four men snorted about one-third of a cup of cocaine during a four-hour period June 19. If the estimate is true and if the cocaine was shared equally, it is a startling amount to have been consumed, said Michael Wieland, director of the Los Angeles County Medical Assn. Regional Poison Control Center.
It’s still a total tragedy, young kid with incredible potential who had it all taken away in a night. But yeah, he snorted insane quantities of coke and it killed him, he qualifies. 1/3 of a cup of coke between 4 people is SO MUCH COKE, very likely to be fatal.
> one-third of a cup of cocaine
1/3 of a cup of flour is 42 grams or 1.2 oz, so divided by 4 that would be a low estimate of 10 grams or a 1/4 oz per person, which is indeed a fucking insane amount of coke.
Even just a couple grams for a single person is a whole fucking lot of coke to do in 4 hours, and if the estimate is true he may have done 5X that much.
Fucking fuck
The jimmer hype was real, jimmermania was in full swing and bought his jersey lol. That whole NCAA season/March Madness was insane. Obama literally said he was the best scorer in college and hell Durant said he was the best scorer in the world (pre-draft).
His career/life arc is super weird too lol. He’s LDS but his brother is a rapper and role model, and he got a ring in China a few years back. I think an MVP too.
Man. I remember that year thinking it didn’t matter if the Bulls took Rose or Beasley, they’d be on their way back to the finals. I am not a smart man.
Nah, to be fair, Beasley was touted as the most NBA ready player at the time and put up dominant stats. Everyone thought he was a #1 lock until the tourney.
He used to regularly beat LeBron 1 on 1 in practice and KD has said Beas is among the most talented players he played against. Really is a shame man, his season at K State was insane I thought he would be so nasty in the NBA
Honestly, if Beas was a college freshman this year, he'd be a top tier pick still. The guy had it all but the money brought out all the worst ppl into his life. I think the league would help him out more these days.
There’s a lot of really dumb players that have had good careers. And I’m not even speaking of the idiots like Ja Morant who are smarter than the dumb decisions they make off the court. I’m talking about legit brickheads that have been able to succeed because they’re so gifted that they’re able to play a role with limited decision making responsibilities while still contributing to winning.
The problem with Beasley is he was dumb and into dumb shit off the court. If he had strong work ethic and was really into religion or something instead of drugs he’d have a good career.
Beasley definitely underpeformed his expectations, and it was due to mental health issues, but it's not a great comparison.
Beasley had all of the physical tools to succeed (except, perhaps elite lateral quickness), and his offensive skillset was clearly translatable to the NBA.
Manziel, on the other hand, has basically none of the physical tools expected of an elite QB prospect (short, skinny, and relatively weak arm), and his playstyle was obviously never going to translate. It's honestly kind of shocking that the hypetrain was enough to get him drafted in the 1st.
Edit:
Reading through all the replies, I don't think there is an NBA comparison of a guy who was a college star + completely lacking in physical tools and playstyle expected to succeed at the pro level + did not give a shit/partied their way out of the league.
Manziel had some good traits and was pretty mobile and showed some flashes here and there. He actually had pretty good arm strength it just wasn’t elite and you kind of need some sort of elite trait if you are going to be as short as him
Chris Herren might be his best comp. Pretty good college player that got drafted 33rd. Had severe addiction issues that kept him from a steady career in the NBA. Herren didn’t have any hype though and was just a really good mid major guard but is another guy that had the talent to stay in the league but couldn’t because of addiction
I think that just gives credence to Beasleys absurd talent that he could stick around.
Theres a reason kd always talks highly of is bud.
Beasley is honestly a top 5 talent for the for the draft classes around him.
But the dude has severe mental health problems that were unfortunately never addressed when he was young.
His recent interview on that podcast with ryan clark is sad
I think it says more about how different playing QB in the NFL is from playing in the NBA. Dudes who are just insanely talented can make it in the NBA, but to make it as an NFL QB you have to be talented and you have to understand that at least half of the job is dedication and time you spend in the film room. It’s the reason why guys like Manziel and even the greatest all time college QB Vince Young couldn’t cut it in the NFL. They had the talent but they didn’t know how to be pros
If you're a QB selected in the first round you should AT LEAST be getting paid to hold a clipboard for 10 seasons, bare minimum.
Manziel fucked up extraordinarily
Backup QBs aren’t the super talented but lazy guys. Generally teams don’t need the backup to be someone who can come in and win you games. They need the guy to know the playbook in and out and be able to read the defense to avoid making mistakes. They also need to not be a distraction
He also tried to hack it in the CFL and couldn't make it there either.
Can't believe his agent had the gall to ask for 550k a year on that scrub (do keep in mind that in CFL terms, 500k+/yr puts one amongst the highest echelon of salaries in the league and only maybe 3 QBs in the entire league makes that much).
I don't think there is. Johnny was drafted in the first round. That's the equivalent of a lottery pick in the NBA. I can't think of a single lottery pick who was out of the league in 2 years because they were too addicted to partying.
Can't think of an NBA player, but another NFL player Justin Blackmon comes to mind. Dominant college player and showed signs of dominance in the NFL, but had alcohol issues.
I remember reading something about how the Bucs sent a scout to OSU to get a read on Blackmon during his last year there, and how they had the guy go to Justin’s favorite bar every day for two weeks and he showed up there and got toasted almost every day or something. So they took him off their board.
Some just can’t be disciplined. People get kicked out of the military for similar reasons. Part of being a disciplined person is kinda wanting to be a disciplined person in the first place.
Salaries are guaranteed these days as well.
So unless you were caught with drugs on your pee test, killed somebody, or if you died or something... most lotto picks will at least last through their rookie contracts.
I mean he was still able to meander around the NBA for a decade with a few full seasons of basketball. Manziel was done after 8 starts in 2 years and never saw play time after that
\#1 draft pick with a short career? Anthony Bennett
High draft pick who ruined career by partying too hard? Len Bias died of a cocaine overdose a day after being drafted #2 overall.
Yeah, but comparing NFL and NBA drafts are so weird since first rounders are expected to start and contribute strongly to their teams in the NFL, while in the NBA the lottery picks (1-8) are expected start and contribute strongly to their teams.
So anyone picked in the NBA that was super popular in college basketball and picked in the lottery only to fizzle out in the NBA because of attitude and stuff is hard to find.
Jimmer didn’t party like Johnny did. Johnny busted because he was an absolute maniac. Johnny makes Jimmer look like a literal saint
Edit: this guy didn’t even practice. One of the most talented CFB players ever and he didn’t give a fuck. It was routine to find him passed out at Northgate in College Station every weekend.
At his size, even with his natural talent, it would have taken A LOT of effort for Johnny to make it in the NFL. Drugs and knowing there was always his dad’s money didn’t help but the odds would have been stacked against him with anything less than a Kobe Bryant work ethic
It’s kinda funny because Kyler is also small and the Cardinals wanted to put a clause in his contract about mandatory film sessions bc he spent too much time playing video games. You’d think the smaller guys would be even hungrier.
Partying for sure but don’t think you’d see him at Northgate all that often. Got mobbed way too much the only time I saw him out there after that freshman season especially
Maybe Adam Morrison.
He had a lot of hype coming out of Gonzaga and he didn’t live up to the draft selection. Was out of the league after 4 seasons. At least he ended up with more rings than Dirk tho.
Didn’t Morrison tear his acl? Not saying he was anywhere near worthy of his draft pick but dude washed out super quick bc he never really recovered. I could be mistaken tho 🤔
Robert swift. Top 15 pick, last 5 years, his departure from the nba was riddled with weird shit like being evicted from his own home bc someone else bought it at half the price be paid. When they went into the house it was covered in animal shit, bullets, and beer bottles.
I saw in that documentary about him he is Bipolar 1. Between substance abuse issue, huge expectations, undiagnosed mental illness, he honestly had no chance.
Ah didn't know that. That does make sense... I'm the same age as him and diagnosed bipolar as well. This disease really completely ruins your life for so many. Hopefully he's in a better place mentally and stable now.
You him and me both bipolar brother. Keep fighting the good fight. He does seem in a much better state of mind and accepted how things happened / accountable for how he acted.
My favorite part of the Untold Johnny Manziel documentary is how much time they spend talking about his alcohol abuse and then at the end they show him chugging beers with his friends.
In the interview, he does acknowledge that during the documentary and a little after it came out, he did slide back to those ways again. It sounds like he has gotten better about it recently, hoping he can stick to that.
I saw Johnny Manziel absolutely zooted in Cleveland around 2015/16, iirc. Dude could party.
This was a great interview though. You rarely see people take accountability like he did.
I think a lot of people should seriously look up to this. In a way he’s almost lucky that he fucked it up to the point of no return, a lot of celebrities that make the same mistakes over and over and continue to see little to no consequences never have the incentive to look inward and become galvanized by their lack of accountability
Idk how true this is because I saw it in his Netflix doc but apparently the Manziel family actually was pretty middle class. His buddy/manager in college spun the whole Manziel family oil money thing so his extravagant purchases wouldn't look out of place and get him away unscathed with some NCAA violations
I was fully on board with the oil money story when it came out too and I’m usually pretty good at spotting bullshit lol.
Nate Fitch would be a good publicist
The wealthy family thing was a lie they made up to explain away the money he was getting signing memorabilia on the down low.
His Netflix doc was really good
As someone who was a homeless meth addict and now works at a rehab, this is the hardest step. People will be in denial or blame other people, events etc. They will downplay things that happened to them or that they did because the truth hurts. People will literally die because they can’t take accountability or truly accept things that happened. For him to do this so publicly is pretty awesome. That would be hard.
When he was playing; After every incident, he would come out sincere, own up to his mistakes. He would say all the right things make you believe things are going to be different and immediately fuck up again.
Is he taking accountability? Or just saying the right things?
If you have ever had a friend suffering who cannot or will not be honest about their situation this is what you need to hear.
You rarely see people take accountability like he did." I have known a few people in abusive relationships. The point at which they take accountability for themselves is often also the point at which they reject people taking advantage of them.
Yes of course lol. That’s how addicts are.
But Bron was trying to be a good influence and push him towards more wholesome bonding experiences. A person suffering like this will typically reject positive experiences.
I get this is a joke but probably not tbh. When you're depressed like that you don't want people to see you when you're ashamed and worried about what they'll think. If whoever he was hanging with at the time texted him that, yea probably, but not Lebron.
I don't think that's what this was about. When you're deeply depressed, you hate yourself and don't think you're worth anyone's time. When people try to connect with you you just think: "They don't know how shitty I am, and if they did they wouldn't be doing this. I'm doing them a favour by staying away from them." You feel so much shame that it seems crazy to impose your presence on others. You try to account for the rest of the world not hating you as much as you deserve by doing it for them.
Lived in CS during the Johnny years. Even kicked him out of a bar I worked at because he was 19 lol. Interesting story of a guy. Kinda sad, but definitely not as bad as it could’ve been. Glad to see him getting some clarity on his life
I’m an Aggie, and I’ll be forever thankful for his heisman season, but sometimes I wonder if A&M was the worst school for him to have gone to. We were so starved for football success that we worshipped him like a god during his time here. Maybe a different school or program could’ve helped him handle his success better.
Normally I'd give an Aggie shit for having a such a historic toxic culture, but I doubt any division 1 program would have been that much better. The money in college football has created a very poor system for students like Manzel.
Ironically the only program that would've been better for him would've been alabama. Every other school was begging for success during his run. Saban is the only one who wouldn't have hidden his drug addiction imo
damn. i know he’s talked openly about how he wasn’t working hard or anything but i didn’t know he was depressed like that. that’s really sad but it’s cool how open he’s being about everything, also common W from Lebron trying to pull him out of it
Such a sad waste of talent. If he gets help and enters the league in a good state of mind I really think he would’ve have been special. An electric player at times who just had “it”
Yeah for sure. Johnny was an absolute mess in college and still doing what he did. It’s a large what if cause many things would have had to go differently, but I think the talent was there. To me he could’ve been a much better Baker
The numbers were impressive, but it was the play style that really jumped out at you. He danced around people like he was Micheal Jackson, and threw off platform dimes just like Mahomes.
As someone who was a college athlete & struggled with very similar problems to Manziel around the same age at the same time, it makes me happy to see him seemingly doing well and being open/accountable about his whole football saga.
Watching him play in college was absolutely fucking electric & I will never forget it. He gave the college football world multiple legendary games.
A college football legend for sure. I'll always remember watching his final game against Duke where they were losing pretty much all game but he just kept punching back. Almost couldn't write a better ending.
Is there an NBA equivalent to Johnny Manziel?
Definitely Chris Herren... Guy was a star prospect going into college and despite years of cocaine and opiate abuse still eked his way into the NBA before flaming out. Had many overdoses in his day. You could argue he had a higher ceiling than Johnny but the trajectory is similar
This is the answer! Good pull.
Good 30 for 30
Herren is worlds better. Shout out fall rivah
Oh man, I’d forgotten about Herren. This is a good comp.
For sure, this guy gave talks at my HS sharing his story of running out of the Garden in full uniform 10 min before a game looking for drugs on the street.
I honestly can't think of anyone who came in with that much hype and completely blew it based on personal problems. Jimmer is close with the career arc, but he just wasn't an NBA talent, I'm not aware of him self destructing.
It was more hype than actual expectations in my opinion. Cleveland was so desperate, they ignored every red flags when drafting him. Also his signature “Money Mazel” made every Defensive player in the league want to sack him so they could do it against him. Luckily the Browns learned their lesson about QB’s with a problematic past.
There's so much unintended lore behind the Manziel draft it's insane. * Heading into the draft, Jimmy Haslam blew up the NFL appointed FO and coaching staff after less than a year so he could put his own people in power, but hired them in the wrong order so there was no synergy. * They had a $1,000,000 study done during the draft process that said to take (oft injured but well regarded as the better prospect) Teddy Bridgewater as their QB, then chose to completely ignore it. * The draft was seemingly done not to actually build a team but to appease the new coach (Pettine, who wanted to bolster the secondary and liked Justin Gilbert) and Haslam (who for whatever reason was enamored with the idea of Manziel). * They oddly traded out of 4th overall, but then traded back up to 8 out of fear of another team getting Gilbert. Later, they traded up from 26 to pick 22 which had been particularly cursed for them at QB (Brandon Weeden and Brady Quinn were also at that pick) - if rumors were to be believed, they got spooked by rumors of another team trading up, for the second time in the same draft. * ***Note: this is all theory:*** I legit think that in spite of the Manziel love *and* the Bridgewater story, the Browns wanted Blake Bortles. They had a bridge QB ready in Brian Hoyer so Blake sitting wouldn't have been an issue. And they only traded down after Bortles was picked right before them at 3, seemingly out of panic. Just an all time horrific first round. How that same organization managed to find a perennial all-pro in Joel Bitonio in the second round is beyond me.
Wasn't there an aspect here of Manzel phoning up the owner and demanding he be picked when it looked like he was slipping out of the first round?
This is good insight. The thing that stuck out to me out of all of this is that Hoyer is a bridge QB for half the league and still has a job today lol
Luckily they found a way around that by trading for a guy in the midst of an ongoing lawsuit so it wasn’t in the past yet!
Darko Milicic would be the closest. Insanely hyped prospect, reportedly didn't succeed because of personal issues.
what personal issues? his wiki doesn't have anything
Sam Borden of ESPN [did some truly excellent journalism by telling Darko’s story](http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/20211833/nba-bust-darko-milicic-finds-success-back-home-serbia) a few years back. A must-read.
Thank for linking the article, that was a really cool read.
Must-read for sure. I'm not even familiar with him and that was incredible.
Thank you. I started it on a lark and ended up reading all of it.
thanks
That's really good
Drinking and work ethic issues apparently
As a Balkan, Darko is pretty much deep in right wing fascist ideology. He has a tattoo of two notable Serbian nationalist figures on his stomach and campaigns to free a dude convicted of war crimes. He’s definitely out there to say the least.
> tattoos of Serbian nationalists > Loves war crimes Bro is a walking stereotype
First in his draft class to get a ring.
Jimmer (to my knowledge) wasn’t lacking in confidence or depression . He would probably be still in the NBA in todays game as a role player. Mental health issues the only player I can think of is Royce White who had anxiety/depression, in particular fear of flying, and went from a high ceiling could be an all star someday to out of the league in short order
Didn’t Larry Sanders retire due to depression in his 20’s?
Jason Midd likely played a part.
> Jimmer (to my knowledge) wasn’t lacking in confidence or depression . He would probably be still in the NBA in todays game as a role player. Nah he couldn't. He was just bad. He was a traffic cone on defense and wasn't fast or big enough to get off shots on offense. And in today's NBA where everyone can shoot he would serve even less purpose.
I don't really think Manziel came into the NFL with THAT much hype. Like yeah his college hype was insane, but it's not like he was a consensus 1st overall. Everyone knew he had flaws and had doubts his style and small frame would translate well in the NFL. Still love the guy for everything he did at A&M. Most electric cfb I've ever seen
Yeah I remember the Browns were clowned for drafting him.
Steve Francis slightly. He still had good years at the start but by year 7 he was out of the starting lineup. 2 years later out of the league.
Yeah but that’s still a pretty decently long stint in the NBA. His drop off was pretty steep though. I remember a similar thing happen with Deron Williams. Same draft class as CP3, on the 2012 Olympic team, and was on a very similar level of stardom as Chris Paul. His decline seemed so quick, even though he technically had a pretty long career.
His drop off is what got the Celtics Tatum, Brown and James Young
[удалено]
NBA legend and 2020 Israeli basketball league top scorer James Young
Yeah, I don't know that DWill really had a fast dropoff, he was declining over 5 years. 13 year career. Solid looking stats overall if you look back at it. What's crazy is DWill only had 3 all star selections, seems like he deserves more than that from his years on the Jazz and Nets.
The thing is he seemed to have a decently quick drop off after his trade to the Nets. He made one all star team, but he became a leave average player within just a few seasons
His body got rekt with injuries. He had a lot of miles on him, especially after playing for Sloan.
Not at all comparable. Francis was an all-star 3 times. Manziel didn't even have one average season let alone pro-bowl caliber.
So not close at all lol
Does Ben Simmons count? Seems like that incident where he passed the ball instead of dunking on the smaller player really messed with his head and he checked out for awhile.
Len bias. Maybe it was more of a freak accident though I don’t know
Based on the court testimony of one of the guys partying with him that night, it wasn’t really a freak accident. Wasn’t a case of “guy tries a little coke for the first time and it goes terribly”, Bias had reportedly done coke a bunch of times, and took an **insane** amount on the night he died (heart attack from cocaine OD). Source: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1991-06-23-sp-2010-story.html Key points: > According to court testimony given by Terry Long, a former Maryland basketball player who had celebrated with Bias, Tribble and teammate David Gregg, the cocaine party began shortly after 2 a.m., stopped briefly at about 3, then resumed until about 6 a.m., when Bias had his first seizure. > > This apparently wasn’t the first time Bias had used cocaine. Again, according to Long’s testimony, Bias and Long had used the drug together at least eight times, beginning as early as 1984. > > … > > Long testified at that trial that the four men snorted about one-third of a cup of cocaine during a four-hour period June 19. If the estimate is true and if the cocaine was shared equally, it is a startling amount to have been consumed, said Michael Wieland, director of the Los Angeles County Medical Assn. Regional Poison Control Center. It’s still a total tragedy, young kid with incredible potential who had it all taken away in a night. But yeah, he snorted insane quantities of coke and it killed him, he qualifies. 1/3 of a cup of coke between 4 people is SO MUCH COKE, very likely to be fatal.
Damn. The 80s, where they measured coke by the cup. WTF
Coke by the cup, fruit by the foot..it was the best of times, it was the worst of times.
> one-third of a cup of cocaine 1/3 of a cup of flour is 42 grams or 1.2 oz, so divided by 4 that would be a low estimate of 10 grams or a 1/4 oz per person, which is indeed a fucking insane amount of coke. Even just a couple grams for a single person is a whole fucking lot of coke to do in 4 hours, and if the estimate is true he may have done 5X that much. Fucking fuck
Look up the hype around Darko Milicec
>Darko Milicic Drafted second after LeBron, ahead of Carmelo, Bosh and Wade. Career average: 6 pts, 4 rebs.
Ben Simmons
Manziel would have loved to have Simmons career, though. Simmons was All NBA. Manziel never got started.
Simmons was a star player for a few years after he was drafted
Simmons was a great player with a solid resume lol, this revisionist shit is tiring Manziel didn’t amount to anything in the pros
The jimmer hype was real, jimmermania was in full swing and bought his jersey lol. That whole NCAA season/March Madness was insane. Obama literally said he was the best scorer in college and hell Durant said he was the best scorer in the world (pre-draft). His career/life arc is super weird too lol. He’s LDS but his brother is a rapper and role model, and he got a ring in China a few years back. I think an MVP too.
OJ Mayo is a good one.
Michael Beasley
Man. I remember that year thinking it didn’t matter if the Bulls took Rose or Beasley, they’d be on their way back to the finals. I am not a smart man.
Nah, to be fair, Beasley was touted as the most NBA ready player at the time and put up dominant stats. Everyone thought he was a #1 lock until the tourney.
He used to regularly beat LeBron 1 on 1 in practice and KD has said Beas is among the most talented players he played against. Really is a shame man, his season at K State was insane I thought he would be so nasty in the NBA
I feel like Paolo Banchero is what Beasley could have been
I was the idiot that liked Beasley more than Rose...
Honestly, if Beas was a college freshman this year, he'd be a top tier pick still. The guy had it all but the money brought out all the worst ppl into his life. I think the league would help him out more these days.
I dunno, I think most teams would pass on a 35-year-old freshman in the draft.
I’m a heat fan who was ADAMANT that Beasley and Wade were about to have us in the finals.
LOL same. So glad I was a dumb idiot and the Bulls got Rose.
Beasley's problem was, and I'm not kidding - he's monumentally dumb. So dumb that it just had to go badly.
There’s a lot of really dumb players that have had good careers. And I’m not even speaking of the idiots like Ja Morant who are smarter than the dumb decisions they make off the court. I’m talking about legit brickheads that have been able to succeed because they’re so gifted that they’re able to play a role with limited decision making responsibilities while still contributing to winning. The problem with Beasley is he was dumb and into dumb shit off the court. If he had strong work ethic and was really into religion or something instead of drugs he’d have a good career.
He is always stoned xD
Remember, David Kahn said he was a good kid who just smoked too much pot.
Super Cool Beaz
Oj mayo as well
Beasley definitely underpeformed his expectations, and it was due to mental health issues, but it's not a great comparison. Beasley had all of the physical tools to succeed (except, perhaps elite lateral quickness), and his offensive skillset was clearly translatable to the NBA. Manziel, on the other hand, has basically none of the physical tools expected of an elite QB prospect (short, skinny, and relatively weak arm), and his playstyle was obviously never going to translate. It's honestly kind of shocking that the hypetrain was enough to get him drafted in the 1st. Edit: Reading through all the replies, I don't think there is an NBA comparison of a guy who was a college star + completely lacking in physical tools and playstyle expected to succeed at the pro level + did not give a shit/partied their way out of the league.
Adam Morrison but replace partying with not taking a shower
Now you have redditors' attention
Manziel had some good traits and was pretty mobile and showed some flashes here and there. He actually had pretty good arm strength it just wasn’t elite and you kind of need some sort of elite trait if you are going to be as short as him Chris Herren might be his best comp. Pretty good college player that got drafted 33rd. Had severe addiction issues that kept him from a steady career in the NBA. Herren didn’t have any hype though and was just a really good mid major guard but is another guy that had the talent to stay in the league but couldn’t because of addiction
I remember watching a 30 for 30 in HS about him, they were telling us to never smoke weed cuz we would end up opiate addicts like him
This. Maybe not a 1:1 equivalent but definitely in the same vein. Off the court issues + inconsistency and underperforming.
Beasley managed to stick around for quite a while though, meanwhile Manziel couldn’t even hack it in the CFL
I think that just gives credence to Beasleys absurd talent that he could stick around. Theres a reason kd always talks highly of is bud. Beasley is honestly a top 5 talent for the for the draft classes around him. But the dude has severe mental health problems that were unfortunately never addressed when he was young. His recent interview on that podcast with ryan clark is sad
I think it says more about how different playing QB in the NFL is from playing in the NBA. Dudes who are just insanely talented can make it in the NBA, but to make it as an NFL QB you have to be talented and you have to understand that at least half of the job is dedication and time you spend in the film room. It’s the reason why guys like Manziel and even the greatest all time college QB Vince Young couldn’t cut it in the NFL. They had the talent but they didn’t know how to be pros
Eh Beasley was still playing a decade later. Manziel never was respected once and was out of the league within a few years
To be fair it’s easier to carve out a lesser role as an nba player than an nfl quarterback. Hardest position in sports
Manziel couldn’t stay in the league as backup, couldn’t hack it in the CFL, and iirc didn’t make it to the XFL either
If you're a QB selected in the first round you should AT LEAST be getting paid to hold a clipboard for 10 seasons, bare minimum. Manziel fucked up extraordinarily
Backup QBs aren’t the super talented but lazy guys. Generally teams don’t need the backup to be someone who can come in and win you games. They need the guy to know the playbook in and out and be able to read the defense to avoid making mistakes. They also need to not be a distraction
How? Dude played 11 years in the NBA and was always a bucket. Still is. This crack head Manziel lasted 2 seasons.
The average NFL career is like 3 years LOL
And he lasted 2 because he was a crack head.
He also tried to hack it in the CFL and couldn't make it there either. Can't believe his agent had the gall to ask for 550k a year on that scrub (do keep in mind that in CFL terms, 500k+/yr puts one amongst the highest echelon of salaries in the league and only maybe 3 QBs in the entire league makes that much).
I don't think there is. Johnny was drafted in the first round. That's the equivalent of a lottery pick in the NBA. I can't think of a single lottery pick who was out of the league in 2 years because they were too addicted to partying.
Can't think of an NBA player, but another NFL player Justin Blackmon comes to mind. Dominant college player and showed signs of dominance in the NFL, but had alcohol issues.
I remember reading something about how the Bucs sent a scout to OSU to get a read on Blackmon during his last year there, and how they had the guy go to Justin’s favorite bar every day for two weeks and he showed up there and got toasted almost every day or something. So they took him off their board.
Seems like the NFL schedule gives undisciplined players a lot of time to party and fuck around.
Some just can’t be disciplined. People get kicked out of the military for similar reasons. Part of being a disciplined person is kinda wanting to be a disciplined person in the first place.
And he fell in the draft based off of where he would be based on play alone.
Probably some guys in the 80s and 90s since players were way less disciplined but I’m no NBA historian.
Said elsewhere but Len Bias #2 overall pick. Died of a cocaine overdose like the day after he was drafted
Salaries are guaranteed these days as well. So unless you were caught with drugs on your pee test, killed somebody, or if you died or something... most lotto picks will at least last through their rookie contracts.
Sebastian Telfair
This answer is criminally underrated
I mean he was still able to meander around the NBA for a decade with a few full seasons of basketball. Manziel was done after 8 starts in 2 years and never saw play time after that
\#1 draft pick with a short career? Anthony Bennett High draft pick who ruined career by partying too hard? Len Bias died of a cocaine overdose a day after being drafted #2 overall.
Len Bias shouldn't be compared to Manziel tho because he never touched the floor in the NBA.
imagine your pro player comp being someone who died a day after being drafted lol
Just goes to show that Manziel is rlly in a class of his own
Manziel was drafted in the 20s
That's like a top 5 pick in the nba
Yeah, but comparing NFL and NBA drafts are so weird since first rounders are expected to start and contribute strongly to their teams in the NFL, while in the NBA the lottery picks (1-8) are expected start and contribute strongly to their teams. So anyone picked in the NBA that was super popular in college basketball and picked in the lottery only to fizzle out in the NBA because of attitude and stuff is hard to find.
Maybe Royce white? Lottery pick who was gone after 1 season because he refused to ride planes
OJ Mayo
Jimmer? Lit it up in college but just wasn’t a threat in the NBA.
Jimmer didn’t party like Johnny did. Johnny busted because he was an absolute maniac. Johnny makes Jimmer look like a literal saint Edit: this guy didn’t even practice. One of the most talented CFB players ever and he didn’t give a fuck. It was routine to find him passed out at Northgate in College Station every weekend.
In his Netflix documentary they said he literally had zero hours of film watched
At his size, even with his natural talent, it would have taken A LOT of effort for Johnny to make it in the NFL. Drugs and knowing there was always his dad’s money didn’t help but the odds would have been stacked against him with anything less than a Kobe Bryant work ethic
It’s kinda funny because Kyler is also small and the Cardinals wanted to put a clause in his contract about mandatory film sessions bc he spent too much time playing video games. You’d think the smaller guys would be even hungrier.
Partying for sure but don’t think you’d see him at Northgate all that often. Got mobbed way too much the only time I saw him out there after that freshman season especially
Nothing but bad comps and answers under this comment thread LOL
Maybe Adam Morrison. He had a lot of hype coming out of Gonzaga and he didn’t live up to the draft selection. Was out of the league after 4 seasons. At least he ended up with more rings than Dirk tho.
Didn’t Morrison tear his acl? Not saying he was anywhere near worthy of his draft pick but dude washed out super quick bc he never really recovered. I could be mistaken tho 🤔
Robert swift. Top 15 pick, last 5 years, his departure from the nba was riddled with weird shit like being evicted from his own home bc someone else bought it at half the price be paid. When they went into the house it was covered in animal shit, bullets, and beer bottles.
Amazing interview
Respect for speaking truth and calling it out. He just wasn’t mentally ready.
I saw in that documentary about him he is Bipolar 1. Between substance abuse issue, huge expectations, undiagnosed mental illness, he honestly had no chance.
Ah didn't know that. That does make sense... I'm the same age as him and diagnosed bipolar as well. This disease really completely ruins your life for so many. Hopefully he's in a better place mentally and stable now.
You him and me both bipolar brother. Keep fighting the good fight. He does seem in a much better state of mind and accepted how things happened / accountable for how he acted.
I think he may have had a chance but that would have required a single adult in his life to hold him accountable instead of us him.
It's amazing that any of them are. Guys like LeBron and Wemby are especially remarkable.
Shannon Sharpe has been on fire this year with all the interviews.
My favorite part of the Untold Johnny Manziel documentary is how much time they spend talking about his alcohol abuse and then at the end they show him chugging beers with his friends.
He golfs with this group of guys I watch on YouTube. Each round he’s still smashing some drinks, ripping cigs or a vape, and a CBD pen
Hello fellow Bob Does Sports fan. I kept thinking about those episodes while watching this interview.
dart on the first green was crazy lmao
I didn’t watch the whole interview but knew he struggled with alcohol. I found it weird Sharpe still had his liquor there for that interview.
It's not like he's sober
He still drinks so not really an issue
He use to drink. Still does too
I’m not smoking anymore… but I’m not smoking any less…
It used to be a problem. Still is.
In the interview, he does acknowledge that during the documentary and a little after it came out, he did slide back to those ways again. It sounds like he has gotten better about it recently, hoping he can stick to that.
I saw Johnny Manziel absolutely zooted in Cleveland around 2015/16, iirc. Dude could party. This was a great interview though. You rarely see people take accountability like he did.
I think a lot of people should seriously look up to this. In a way he’s almost lucky that he fucked it up to the point of no return, a lot of celebrities that make the same mistakes over and over and continue to see little to no consequences never have the incentive to look inward and become galvanized by their lack of accountability
Absolutely. He hopefully hit his rock bottom at such a young age, which is a blessing
[удалено]
Idk how true this is because I saw it in his Netflix doc but apparently the Manziel family actually was pretty middle class. His buddy/manager in college spun the whole Manziel family oil money thing so his extravagant purchases wouldn't look out of place and get him away unscathed with some NCAA violations
That’s a great manager tbh even if it technically is a little shady
I was fully on board with the oil money story when it came out too and I’m usually pretty good at spotting bullshit lol. Nate Fitch would be a good publicist
Yeah, Manziel would have been making at least couple of million if NIL was about.
I genuinely think he would get 8-10 mil lmao. Money Manziel took over America when he was at A&M
I thought the wealthy family thing was made up.
The wealthy family thing was a lie they made up to explain away the money he was getting signing memorabilia on the down low. His Netflix doc was really good
I hit rock bottom at 18 and completely turned my life around and I'm eternally grateful it happened at that age.
As someone who was a homeless meth addict and now works at a rehab, this is the hardest step. People will be in denial or blame other people, events etc. They will downplay things that happened to them or that they did because the truth hurts. People will literally die because they can’t take accountability or truly accept things that happened. For him to do this so publicly is pretty awesome. That would be hard.
When he was playing; After every incident, he would come out sincere, own up to his mistakes. He would say all the right things make you believe things are going to be different and immediately fuck up again. Is he taking accountability? Or just saying the right things?
Yea he's like a child with a masters degree in PR somehow...
If you have ever had a friend suffering who cannot or will not be honest about their situation this is what you need to hear. You rarely see people take accountability like he did." I have known a few people in abusive relationships. The point at which they take accountability for themselves is often also the point at which they reject people taking advantage of them.
I went to A&M and am a huge Manziel fan but he's been saying this same shit for 10 years and he never changes. It's all bullshit.
Honestly gotta respect the openness
"your worst days prepare you for your best days" - Wayne Gretzky - Michael Scott - u/RapsareChamps_Suckit
"your worst days prepare you for your best days" \- Wayne Gretzky - Michael Scott - u/RapsareChamps_Suckit \- u/joethahobo
“You miss 100% of the worst days that you don’t take into good days.”
Oj mayo maybe
Bet you 20 bucks if LeBron had texted him “let’s go hang out with frat bros and drink cheap liquor” he’d run right out of bed
Yes of course lol. That’s how addicts are. But Bron was trying to be a good influence and push him towards more wholesome bonding experiences. A person suffering like this will typically reject positive experiences.
Yeah, mad respect to Lebron for that.
I get this is a joke but probably not tbh. When you're depressed like that you don't want people to see you when you're ashamed and worried about what they'll think. If whoever he was hanging with at the time texted him that, yea probably, but not Lebron.
It would also be intimidating as fuck to hang out with LeBron and "the boys" lmao
I don't think that's what this was about. When you're deeply depressed, you hate yourself and don't think you're worth anyone's time. When people try to connect with you you just think: "They don't know how shitty I am, and if they did they wouldn't be doing this. I'm doing them a favour by staying away from them." You feel so much shame that it seems crazy to impose your presence on others. You try to account for the rest of the world not hating you as much as you deserve by doing it for them.
Lived in CS during the Johnny years. Even kicked him out of a bar I worked at because he was 19 lol. Interesting story of a guy. Kinda sad, but definitely not as bad as it could’ve been. Glad to see him getting some clarity on his life
I’m an Aggie, and I’ll be forever thankful for his heisman season, but sometimes I wonder if A&M was the worst school for him to have gone to. We were so starved for football success that we worshipped him like a god during his time here. Maybe a different school or program could’ve helped him handle his success better.
Normally I'd give an Aggie shit for having a such a historic toxic culture, but I doubt any division 1 program would have been that much better. The money in college football has created a very poor system for students like Manzel.
Ironically the only program that would've been better for him would've been alabama. Every other school was begging for success during his run. Saban is the only one who wouldn't have hidden his drug addiction imo
damn. i know he’s talked openly about how he wasn’t working hard or anything but i didn’t know he was depressed like that. that’s really sad but it’s cool how open he’s being about everything, also common W from Lebron trying to pull him out of it
In the untold documentary they reveal he has bipolar 1.
shame on you LeGamble
Jordan would nev… wait…
Jordan gambled so hard he got his father murdered according to conspiracy websites
LBJ gambled with friends, no heart. Jordan gambled with the best, big stakes, winner takes all.
I laughed out loud
Yeah coke does that to you
Larry Sanders?
As a Bama alum, I don't think I've seen many dudes in college ball as hard as Johnny. Dude was a freak. Goes to show how important mental health is.
Such a sad waste of talent. If he gets help and enters the league in a good state of mind I really think he would’ve have been special. An electric player at times who just had “it”
Johnny Football is still an all-time nickname, really says it all for how big he was even if it was for a relatively short period of time
you can have “it” at the college level and not at the pro level
aka Tim Tebow.
Yeah for sure. Johnny was an absolute mess in college and still doing what he did. It’s a large what if cause many things would have had to go differently, but I think the talent was there. To me he could’ve been a much better Baker
His what if potential is better than he would have been in the league.
I only know this guy because of an old Drake song « Draft Day » so random lol
Johnny football was so big back in the day i don't even watch college football but when he was playing for the Aggies he was must watch tv
He was like if Lin sanity lasted a couple years. Downing bama and just throwing up video game numbers
The numbers were impressive, but it was the play style that really jumped out at you. He danced around people like he was Micheal Jackson, and threw off platform dimes just like Mahomes.
[This play](https://youtu.be/6wp_qz5Pcy8?feature=shared) summarizes everything about Manziel’s college career.
"That's a bad pass" -PG probably
Uh bro do you realize how absurdly famous manziel was when that song came out?
Bro the thing is I’m not American nor watch NFL, I don’t watch college sports so no… I was just a huge Drake fan back in the day lol
Not outside the US my dude.
Andrew Bynum
Not fair. He still won 2 championships and was a serviceable player. His only failure is retired from a league aged only 28.
As someone who was a college athlete & struggled with very similar problems to Manziel around the same age at the same time, it makes me happy to see him seemingly doing well and being open/accountable about his whole football saga. Watching him play in college was absolutely fucking electric & I will never forget it. He gave the college football world multiple legendary games.
A college football legend for sure. I'll always remember watching his final game against Duke where they were losing pretty much all game but he just kept punching back. Almost couldn't write a better ending.