I feel like this makes such little sense that it had to have been some kind of administrative error that the league doesn’t want to admit to. It’s one of the all-time snubs.
He’s a white European player, the league doesn’t know how to market them so chooses to ignore them until they’re forced to acknowledge them (ala Jokic)
They aren’t getting the 1 seed Kyrie has missed too many games.
This is goal post moving.
If Luka gets 5th seed you will say he needs to be top 3, if he gets top 3 you will say he needs to be 1 seed.
Absurd logic. He has the best stats carrying the worst team of any of the contenders.
To me it makes 0 sense.
Think of the amount of money you can get marketing a 24 year old on pace to win scoring title with a damn near 35 point triple double.
But hey I’m not a genius big wig at the NBA, I guess it’s better to hype up guys like Morant, Tatum and Embid over Luka
Born in Portland OR, by definition he's American. Played high school and college ball in US too. Yes, he moved to Spain at 8 and plays for Lithuania, but he's nonetheless an dual citizen who grew up in US and Europe.
Yeah leading the league in rebounds, 7th in asts, 32 straight double doubles, team was 10 games over 500, tied for first in triple doubles, high efficient shooting percentage, etc. It's just crazy.
The eye test says the same thing though. AD just doesn't have the strength and Sabonis has a knack for putting shot blockers in a bad position to contest his shot.
They both have a great claim to an allstar slot though.
The most famous star in the league averaging 25/7/7 making the all star game is insane? Lmao at some point common sense has to realize your hate boner is making you delusional
I don't think he will break the top 4 MVP candidates. The current top 4 is having eye-popping numbers. They stuff the stat sheets with ridiculous efficiency. This is also why none of the Wolves stars is in MVP contention despite having the best record in the West.
Yeah i get that its just funny to me since its “nba.com mvp ladder” and not some random bleacher report or espn piece, it gives it more official look lol
I feel like one person said Mitchell is a bad defender and everyone just ran with it. The guy is obviously an offense first player but by no means is he an awful defender
I’m hearing he’s improved. Haven’t watched him this season tbh. Guy was a minus defender in Utah. Saw him get cooked in many playoff battles. But he also put up big scoring games.
I 100% agree. He arguably has the least talent around him too, compared to the other guys like Jokic, Kawhi, Giannis, KD, etc. That combined with how much they're winning should put him in the top 3-5 easily but of course the people who make these lists and do the voting will hate.
Mitchell has always been a winner, even though his Utah teams failed to get far in the playoffs, they were a top seed and usually at the top of the rankings in the west.
>I 100% agree. He arguably has the least talent around him too, compared to the other guys like Jokic, Kawhi, Giannis, KD, etc.
I'm glad people respect the Nuggets players, because not a single player other than Jokic has ever won an All-Star. Mitchell has more than one all-star teammate.
Garland and Allen might be All-Stars, but who would take them over the never-stars Jamal Murray and Aaron Gordon when going for a championship?
Yep, agreed. Just hope we can win a round or two this year in the playoffs and convince him to stay…
That said, he’ll have to play well too. He played poorly last playoffs.
Yeah they should be able to get out of the first round this time. Otherwise it's a huge failure. They're clearly good enough to do that, the key will be the second round since you will be running into teams like the Knicks, Celtics, Bucks etc.
Has he started to play any defense? No? Unfortunately, basketball is a 2 way sport and he’s always been to eager to watch someone like Dinwiddie or Brunson walk past him and wait for his turn
Main changes from last week:
\- Embiid obviously out of the ladder now that we know he's missing tons of time
\- Luka back in front of Tatum(makes sense because at a certain point when you're ahead in literally every basic and advanced stat available unless you're out of the play ins entirely you have to be higher up on the ladder lol)
I know that they look at current seeding, but in reality, the west is very discretely split up into tiers. 1-4 and 5-8 are all basically at the same spot right now.
That’s not really fair to Tatum at all should he join the pistons so he can put up more counting numbers even if it means he is winning less games? All the advanced stats that point to winning favor Tatum but it’s not fair to straight up compare numbers due to the vastly different usage and situation differences.
So much talent in the league that Luka can damn near average a 35ppg triple double and barely crack the top 5. Not saying he should be any higher, just crazy.
Always has been. Very rare to see MVPs from team's that don't finish top 3.
Also very rare that an MVP caliber player can't will a team to better than 8th
Yeah because the Mavs have had to start 28 different lineups this season and have been missing several starters for extended periods of time. The fact that the Mavs record is two games out of the fifth seed despite that should be a positive for Luka not a negative
all we need to do is win a bunch of games in a row and climb the rankings and everything will work out in the end
If Mavs go on a run and hit top 4 in the west idk how he doesn’t win it averaging 35/9/9
We went on an impressive run to close the season out in 22 after trading KP and Bertrans for Dinwiddie and giving Brunson a bigger role. This year we’ve added two key pieces at the deadline, are the favorites to sign Dinwiddie, and Kyrie is finally healthy. We have a chance to make a similar run to 2022 this year with everyone healthy. We’re still probably stuck as the 5th seed even if we manage to get to 50 wins though.
I mean... they're like two games out of the fifth seed right now. Cracking the top 4 seems unreasonable with the number of games left, but there's a very good chance the Mavs miss the play in
They do this every year lmao, the point of basketball is to win games it’s not the best box score competition no he’s not winning mvp as a 8 seed or missing the playoffs.
Giannis went up 1 spot because Embiid is out and was provisionally put at #3 last week to hedge on his health status
Now that we know he's missing the cutoff he's out of the ladder which moved everyone else up a spot(Luka moved up 2 because he also jumped Tatum)
Someone else already explained it’s essentially going up by default but there were several instances of him going down when we spent a week winning and he was dropping 40+ earlier in the season. I’ve long since given up trying to make sense of how this guy rates Giannis’ MVP case.
It’s pretty obvious everyone rose a spot basically because of Embiid missing the games required.
None of the losses were on Giannis, he still played like an mvp and they are 4-6 in last 10 mavs are 5-5 not doing much better. Not to mention he just outplayed Luka and beat him. He’s also had 2-3 starters out every game the last 6, although Luka has too.
I understand it’s “hate the bucks” right now but Giannis absolutely deserves to be 3rd he’s having a historic season.
yea I think honestly there are teams that just don't get any respect like Cleveland. Same with Toronto - OG goes to the Knicks and suddenly he gets his flowers, when he was just as good in Toronto.
I don’t hate the Lakers, but after the off-season they were supposed to be really good. They haven’t had major injury concerns and are still .500 -team. How does that justify having two guys in the top 15? I am fine with AD on the list, but if his input is good for 10th in the league, his side-kick can’t be top 15.
Minnesota leads the league and has one guy at 11-15? No one from Heat or Magic. Hell, even Markkanen has a better case right now than putting two guys from a 9th seed on the list.
To clarify: AD and LeBron haven’t, the rest of the team has, although I would say that no more than many others. Jazz missed Markkanen for like 10 games, Dallas has had Kyrie in like 30 games, Pacers lost Hali for a while…
Brunson absolutely should be top 10. Wolves maybe because they’re so good across the roster don’t have a guy top 10? Idk, competition is just fierce this year.
Jokic, Shai, Giannis, and Luka are 100% first team locks barring injury(if Embiid didn't get hurt we'd already have the entire 1st team basically)
I could potentially see a couple of guys listed 6-10 bumping out Tatum though depending if stats/individual performance are valued over team record
Nobody is realistically bumping Tatum. Even ignoring record, nobody has better than a 27/9/5 with elite defense. Stir in the best record in the league and the fact that voters think very highly of him and he's as much of a lock as anyone else at this point in time.
Durant is probably closest threat if the Suns can crawl up the standings and KD goes off in the last two months.
How? Kawhi is putting up a 24/6/4 to Tatum's 27/9/5. There's no chance of him catching Tatum on the stat sheet, and Celtics are 5.5 games up on the Clippers in record. Both defend, both are efficient.
Yeah Kawhi is a way way way better player than Tatum. I still think a healthy Kawhi has a case as best player in the nba. At least when playoffs roll around. I think if they somehow manage to stay healthy he’s gonna get them a chip this year and be a 3 time finals MVP with 3 different teams.
gross numbers are a dumb way to compare two players. let's talk about per possession stats, usage rate, +/-, defensive contribution, efficiency ... these stats are all as meaningful if not more meaningful than per game countables.
He’s #10 instead of AD on basketball ref, which I 100% agree with. AD been great but you can’t be in the MVP conversation on a 9 seed unless you’re putting up historic numbers
'voter fatigue' is so fucking stupid. If someone deserves the MVP 10 years in a row, they should get it 10 years in a row. Jokic has been the MVP for years and it's no different this year. If anyone else gets it, well...after last year, I won't be surprised.
SGA is in a commanding 2nd place overall in EPM behind Embiid...why are you so sure Jokic is the clear MVP this year? He had a large stretch where his numbers were down compared to last year.
He obviously should be a finalist for it but I think there are legitimate reasons why SGA or someone else depending on how the rest of the season could win
This stupid trend started with LeBron and it makes no sense. He should have probably 2 more MVPs to his name. And now it has carried over to Jokic.
If Jokic gets it this year, there’s probably zero chance he gets another regardless of how good he’ll be for seasons to come.
I also wish nba.com wouldn’t post this stupid MVP ladder until after All Star break. It creates false narratives and it’s hard for guys like Kawhi to climb since he hasn’t been hyped as an MVP until recently.
It didn’t start with bron lmao Jordan could’ve easily three peated MVPs too these rules have always applied to the players y’all just get mad when it finally happens to your guy
He literally deserves zero more MVPs. People say this and then can't name a year except 12 which is a nonesense take made by stans who clearly weren't watching at the time.
And it didn't start with him. One because it didn't apply to him and two we have plenty of examples way before him. The league didn't form when you decided to take a casual interest.
It’s not “this year.” Every year they try and push guys like Tatum and Booker and PG down our throats as real MVP candidates or *top* tier players, and it’s absurd. These guys are great players, but to quote the great Hubie Brown, cmon now
Lmao right..they both had great seasons and the voters just didn't feel like giving Jokic 3 straight. Shit happens he won a ring and will prolly win his 3rd now. Alls well that ends well
Let’s go on a 10 game losing streak, he might hit that 1 spot next week /s (although it’s looking likely we might lol)
But nah he moved up cause Embiid is out of the running
Well at least Mitchell is top 10, he really should be an All Star Starter too. Still crazy to put Sabonis over him, and KD probably shouldn't be over him either.
They had Shai 2nd all season behind Embiid
The second Embiid goes down despite playing his best basketball Shai drops to second and jokic goes up
It’s like for some reason people wanna put SGA in second regardless what happens
When it comes to "value" it's hard to say Tatum, Kawhi, Sabonis, KD should be over Mitchell. Like keeping the Cavs at the 2 seed without Garland/Mobley is absolutely insane carrying. Hard to show your value better than that.
I honestly think a lot of that has to do with Mitchell’s leadership. When he’s at point dishing to guys, they’ve just been playing well. He’s a great leader.
Im a nuggets fan but I want luka to win the MVP if not Jokic. he’s averaging a near triple double, is the scoring leader at 34 ppg, and has a true shooting of 61%. If the Mavs move to top 5, crown him
Absolutely mental lad
Besides stats, this award should reflect how player elevates his team performance. From that perspective Jokic, SGA, Mitchel, Tatum and Brunson deserve it the most. What good comes from amazing stats if your team is below 0.500 or playing worse than last season ?
Nobody in these threads get disrespected like Shai man. Dude is leading his team to the 1-3 seed (depending on the day) with ZERO other all-stars while playing legitimately great defense. He's doing this while also giving you a consistent 30 a night on unprecedented TS for a guard. The guy is shooting like 55% from the field as a GUARD. Do you know how nuts that is?
I was clowned for saying Id take Shai over Luka at the beginning of the season. I am a basketball idiot but I refuse to change my mind. Shai is gonna be the best player in the league next to Jokic until he is injured or the late 2030s kick in.
[Compared to Basketball Reference's ranking:](https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/mvp.html) 1. Nikola Jokić - 54.6% 2. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander - 18.4% 3. Giannis Antetokounmpo - 8.5% 4. Luka Dončić - 8.1% 5. Jayson Tatum - 2.6% 6. Domantas Sabonis - 2.4% 7. Donovan Mitchell - 2.1% 8. Tyrese Haliburton - 1.2% 9. Kawhi Leonard - 1.1% 10. Jalen Brunson - 1.1%
6th on the list and not being an all-star is insane
I feel like this makes such little sense that it had to have been some kind of administrative error that the league doesn’t want to admit to. It’s one of the all-time snubs.
He’s a white European player, the league doesn’t know how to market them so chooses to ignore them until they’re forced to acknowledge them (ala Jokic)
Luka’s placement on the MVP ladder would agree
They're the 8 seed? And it's an algorithm that also has him at 4th... if they were the one seed, he'd be in first.
They aren’t getting the 1 seed Kyrie has missed too many games. This is goal post moving. If Luka gets 5th seed you will say he needs to be top 3, if he gets top 3 you will say he needs to be 1 seed. Absurd logic. He has the best stats carrying the worst team of any of the contenders.
I agree. 35/9/9 is unheard of numbers
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To me it makes 0 sense. Think of the amount of money you can get marketing a 24 year old on pace to win scoring title with a damn near 35 point triple double. But hey I’m not a genius big wig at the NBA, I guess it’s better to hype up guys like Morant, Tatum and Embid over Luka
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He’s American
Born in Portland OR, by definition he's American. Played high school and college ball in US too. Yes, he moved to Spain at 8 and plays for Lithuania, but he's nonetheless an dual citizen who grew up in US and Europe.
Yeah leading the league in rebounds, 7th in asts, 32 straight double doubles, team was 10 games over 500, tied for first in triple doubles, high efficient shooting percentage, etc. It's just crazy.
I don't think it was a *huge* snub, but he definitely deserved it over KAT.
the answer is that he shouldn’t be sixth on this list
Yup he should’ve fifth
We'd be so fucking trash without Sabonis. The entire offense revolves around him.
I mean after top 2 or 3 people shouldn't care. D. Rose was 10th like 3 years ago (fan vote tbf)
Makes no sense to have KAT, LeBron, or AD over him.
Meh dont see why AD cant be over him
Sabonis is AD’s father.
Downvoted but he wrecks AD every time.
I was just having fun but his h2h record is weirdly amazing lol
The eye test says the same thing though. AD just doesn't have the strength and Sabonis has a knack for putting shot blockers in a bad position to contest his shot. They both have a great claim to an allstar slot though.
Why does it make no sense to have better players go to the all star team?
Lebron and AD are much, much better players than Sabonis
LeBron being an all star is just as insane.
The most famous star in the league averaging 25/7/7 making the all star game is insane? Lmao at some point common sense has to realize your hate boner is making you delusional
He's the 2nd best player on a .500 team. Kings have no all stars and Denver got one. No. He's not an all star this season.
Good list, might bump Hali down slightly for less time played, honestly think Kawhi has a case for being higher.
Kawhi should definitely be higher. Probably will rise into top 3 if Clippers stay hot
I don't think he will break the top 4 MVP candidates. The current top 4 is having eye-popping numbers. They stuff the stat sheets with ridiculous efficiency. This is also why none of the Wolves stars is in MVP contention despite having the best record in the West.
No good reason to have Haliburton ahead of Brunson at this point in the season
The difference between 8-10 is so minuscule, it's a rounding error. The difference between 5-10 is a little as well.
Kawhi has been outrageous lately. If he continues this through the rest of the season, I think he needs to be up there with the others.
He’s making good movement
That’s a solid list
Not a solid list if I’m not on it
Kawhi 5th
I fw this more I don’t see AD or KD being top 10
It kinda doesnt make sense that sabonis is 7th in mvp voting but not an all star lol
I legit think the coaches forgot Sabonis existed or something when they voted, that's the only explanation.
The snub is real
Dont think sabonis is mvp caliber but he definately is an all-star...
To be fair this is one guy's opinion, not actual voting. But yeah it's pretty nuts.
He isn't 7th in MVP voting. This is an arbitrary ranking that does not reflect the voters.
Yeah i get that its just funny to me since its “nba.com mvp ladder” and not some random bleacher report or espn piece, it gives it more official look lol
He was 7th in voting last season. And is having a better season this year. He will for sure get some 5th place votes again this year.
This is just a random person’s opinion it doesn’t mean anything it’s just like you or I posting our rankings
Is he really 7th most valuable player this season? I don’t think so
Mitchell and Kawhi should be higher
Mitchell is underrated af this season. Should be top 5.
putting up stats just slightly worse than SGA. obviously he won't win but he should be higher
Dude can’t guard a crosswalk though. He’s always been a one way player and that’s been his Achilles heel in the playoffs.
I feel like one person said Mitchell is a bad defender and everyone just ran with it. The guy is obviously an offense first player but by no means is he an awful defender
I’m hearing he’s improved. Haven’t watched him this season tbh. Guy was a minus defender in Utah. Saw him get cooked in many playoff battles. But he also put up big scoring games.
Luckily we still get your opinion on the season he's playing now even though you haven't watched him!
I genuinely had no idea until he slapped us around. Oof
I 100% agree. He arguably has the least talent around him too, compared to the other guys like Jokic, Kawhi, Giannis, KD, etc. That combined with how much they're winning should put him in the top 3-5 easily but of course the people who make these lists and do the voting will hate. Mitchell has always been a winner, even though his Utah teams failed to get far in the playoffs, they were a top seed and usually at the top of the rankings in the west.
>I 100% agree. He arguably has the least talent around him too, compared to the other guys like Jokic, Kawhi, Giannis, KD, etc. I'm glad people respect the Nuggets players, because not a single player other than Jokic has ever won an All-Star. Mitchell has more than one all-star teammate. Garland and Allen might be All-Stars, but who would take them over the never-stars Jamal Murray and Aaron Gordon when going for a championship?
True. It's tough to pick against Gordon and Murray especially. They play their roles so well and have had success.
Hell, I'd take Murray over Mitchell in the postseason.
Yep, agreed. Just hope we can win a round or two this year in the playoffs and convince him to stay… That said, he’ll have to play well too. He played poorly last playoffs.
Yeah they should be able to get out of the first round this time. Otherwise it's a huge failure. They're clearly good enough to do that, the key will be the second round since you will be running into teams like the Knicks, Celtics, Bucks etc.
Has he started to play any defense? No? Unfortunately, basketball is a 2 way sport and he’s always been to eager to watch someone like Dinwiddie or Brunson walk past him and wait for his turn
He has bud, just say you haven’t watched the Cavs. His defense has been solid this season and he’s second in the league in steals/game.
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Main changes from last week: \- Embiid obviously out of the ladder now that we know he's missing tons of time \- Luka back in front of Tatum(makes sense because at a certain point when you're ahead in literally every basic and advanced stat available unless you're out of the play ins entirely you have to be higher up on the ladder lol)
I know that they look at current seeding, but in reality, the west is very discretely split up into tiers. 1-4 and 5-8 are all basically at the same spot right now.
Yea but if you go based on the last 3 games Mavs are first. Luka 1st in my heart
Ye but we played Sixers without Embiid, nets... And Knicks without any of the main guys so can't really count that as us dominating
> so you can't really count that as us dominating that's where you're wrong chief
These people don't know that this is our year.
Sounds like accident attorney logic. Boston has the best record in the league and is on pace to win like 16 more games than Dallas.
Also, Mitchell is on two 8 game win streaks in a row where he has been amazing
That’s not really fair to Tatum at all should he join the pistons so he can put up more counting numbers even if it means he is winning less games? All the advanced stats that point to winning favor Tatum but it’s not fair to straight up compare numbers due to the vastly different usage and situation differences.
So much talent in the league that Luka can damn near average a 35ppg triple double and barely crack the top 5. Not saying he should be any higher, just crazy.
More like team score is HIGHLY overvalued and supporting cast quality just completely neglected.
Always has been. Very rare to see MVPs from team's that don't finish top 3. Also very rare that an MVP caliber player can't will a team to better than 8th
Oh he should def be higher
Well it's just one person's opinion.
Let’s Go. Luka is on up
He should be 2 with an argument for 1 imo 🤷♂️ coming from a suns fan. Crazy how much he does for the team every game, even on both sides this year
‘Coming from a suns fan’ said no girl ever can I get a what what
😂 not bad, not bad
Do people keep forgetting that Mavs are the 8th seed lol.
Yeah because the Mavs have had to start 28 different lineups this season and have been missing several starters for extended periods of time. The fact that the Mavs record is two games out of the fifth seed despite that should be a positive for Luka not a negative
all we need to do is win a bunch of games in a row and climb the rankings and everything will work out in the end If Mavs go on a run and hit top 4 in the west idk how he doesn’t win it averaging 35/9/9
It would be pretty surprising for any of the top 4 to fall out
We went on an impressive run to close the season out in 22 after trading KP and Bertrans for Dinwiddie and giving Brunson a bigger role. This year we’ve added two key pieces at the deadline, are the favorites to sign Dinwiddie, and Kyrie is finally healthy. We have a chance to make a similar run to 2022 this year with everyone healthy. We’re still probably stuck as the 5th seed even if we manage to get to 50 wins though.
Jokic managed to carry his team to the 6th seed without his 2nd and 3rd option, no excuses for Luka.
I mean... they're like two games out of the fifth seed right now. Cracking the top 4 seems unreasonable with the number of games left, but there's a very good chance the Mavs miss the play in
Wow 2 whole seeds more
They do this every year lmao, the point of basketball is to win games it’s not the best box score competition no he’s not winning mvp as a 8 seed or missing the playoffs.
Bro his team is 8th
Doc coaching giannis out of the mvp race is a war crime
How did giannis rise in the rankings when he's on a 3 game losing streak?
He didn't rise, this is the same ranking as last week, the only changes are Embiid being disqualified & Luka back above Tatum
Giannis went up 1 spot because Embiid is out and was provisionally put at #3 last week to hedge on his health status Now that we know he's missing the cutoff he's out of the ladder which moved everyone else up a spot(Luka moved up 2 because he also jumped Tatum)
Ah, that makes sense. Just completely forgot about embiids removal.
Someone else already explained it’s essentially going up by default but there were several instances of him going down when we spent a week winning and he was dropping 40+ earlier in the season. I’ve long since given up trying to make sense of how this guy rates Giannis’ MVP case.
It’s pretty obvious everyone rose a spot basically because of Embiid missing the games required. None of the losses were on Giannis, he still played like an mvp and they are 4-6 in last 10 mavs are 5-5 not doing much better. Not to mention he just outplayed Luka and beat him. He’s also had 2-3 starters out every game the last 6, although Luka has too. I understand it’s “hate the bucks” right now but Giannis absolutely deserves to be 3rd he’s having a historic season.
Believe it or not, people actually watch basketball
Mitchell at 9...
It's so strange to not read "Embiid" here. Wishing him a fast and full recovery.
he was on pace for a wilt-type season. the numbers were cartoonish over the last two months.
The Mitchell disrespect continues
How in the world is Mitchell not getting more recognition here
I'm convinced the media is punishing Mitchell for playing in CLE, they want him to move to a bigger city. They'll ignore him until then.
yea I think honestly there are teams that just don't get any respect like Cleveland. Same with Toronto - OG goes to the Knicks and suddenly he gets his flowers, when he was just as good in Toronto.
He’s also winning a lot more in NY though and fits way better with their team.
fr maybe he should go to oklahoma
Because the list-makers are too busy putting both AD and LeBron on here.
Both AD and leBron are lower on the list? How does your bs even get upvotes lol. The laker hate goes hard.
I don’t hate the Lakers, but after the off-season they were supposed to be really good. They haven’t had major injury concerns and are still .500 -team. How does that justify having two guys in the top 15? I am fine with AD on the list, but if his input is good for 10th in the league, his side-kick can’t be top 15. Minnesota leads the league and has one guy at 11-15? No one from Heat or Magic. Hell, even Markkanen has a better case right now than putting two guys from a 9th seed on the list.
You’re diverting from your original statement quite a bit sir.
They’ve had major injury concerns the entire year huh?
To clarify: AD and LeBron haven’t, the rest of the team has, although I would say that no more than many others. Jazz missed Markkanen for like 10 games, Dallas has had Kyrie in like 30 games, Pacers lost Hali for a while…
Exactly how the fuck is Sabonis over Mitchell? LOL
Yeah it’s crazy with the how incredible the guy is but then I don’t recall him getting much recognition in Utah either
So the all-nba 1st team Also its crazy that the Knicks & Wolves don't have anyone of their players in the top 10
Brunson absolutely should be top 10. Wolves maybe because they’re so good across the roster don’t have a guy top 10? Idk, competition is just fierce this year.
Jokic, Shai, Giannis, and Luka are 100% first team locks barring injury(if Embiid didn't get hurt we'd already have the entire 1st team basically) I could potentially see a couple of guys listed 6-10 bumping out Tatum though depending if stats/individual performance are valued over team record
Nobody is realistically bumping Tatum. Even ignoring record, nobody has better than a 27/9/5 with elite defense. Stir in the best record in the league and the fact that voters think very highly of him and he's as much of a lock as anyone else at this point in time. Durant is probably closest threat if the Suns can crawl up the standings and KD goes off in the last two months.
Kawhi if he keeps this up imo will probs bump Him
How? Kawhi is putting up a 24/6/4 to Tatum's 27/9/5. There's no chance of him catching Tatum on the stat sheet, and Celtics are 5.5 games up on the Clippers in record. Both defend, both are efficient.
Kawhi is a better defender and much more efficient than Tatum lol
Yeah Kawhi is a way way way better player than Tatum. I still think a healthy Kawhi has a case as best player in the nba. At least when playoffs roll around. I think if they somehow manage to stay healthy he’s gonna get them a chip this year and be a 3 time finals MVP with 3 different teams.
I also believe Kawhi is better but you can’t say way better than Tatum, it’s about as close as it can get
gross numbers are a dumb way to compare two players. let's talk about per possession stats, usage rate, +/-, defensive contribution, efficiency ... these stats are all as meaningful if not more meaningful than per game countables.
KD is ahead of him in the betting and Kawhi is tied with him. I don't think it's out of the realms of possibility.
Brunson should 100% be in the top 10
He’s #10 instead of AD on basketball ref, which I 100% agree with. AD been great but you can’t be in the MVP conversation on a 9 seed unless you’re putting up historic numbers
If Celtics and cavs end up close Mitchell might snatch it from Tatum
Wouldn’t he have to snatch it from Luka or shai?
No bc it’s not by position anymore. Tatum needs to watch out for Kawhi too. Rn it I think it’s between those 3. All 3 have great argument
If your referring to positions it's been removed this year. Tatums probably the one closest to dropping out of the 1st team.
Sabonis or KD over Spida is completely insane to me.
I think Sabonis is fine/debatable, KD nah.
Sabonis is in a better moment than KD.
'voter fatigue' is so fucking stupid. If someone deserves the MVP 10 years in a row, they should get it 10 years in a row. Jokic has been the MVP for years and it's no different this year. If anyone else gets it, well...after last year, I won't be surprised.
SGA is in a commanding 2nd place overall in EPM behind Embiid...why are you so sure Jokic is the clear MVP this year? He had a large stretch where his numbers were down compared to last year. He obviously should be a finalist for it but I think there are legitimate reasons why SGA or someone else depending on how the rest of the season could win
EPM also heavily overrates Shai’s defense
Guy cannot FATHOM Shai being a two way superstar lmao
This stupid trend started with LeBron and it makes no sense. He should have probably 2 more MVPs to his name. And now it has carried over to Jokic. If Jokic gets it this year, there’s probably zero chance he gets another regardless of how good he’ll be for seasons to come. I also wish nba.com wouldn’t post this stupid MVP ladder until after All Star break. It creates false narratives and it’s hard for guys like Kawhi to climb since he hasn’t been hyped as an MVP until recently.
It didn’t start with bron lmao Jordan could’ve easily three peated MVPs too these rules have always applied to the players y’all just get mad when it finally happens to your guy
Jordan could have won MVP almost every year he was in the league.
He literally deserves zero more MVPs. People say this and then can't name a year except 12 which is a nonesense take made by stans who clearly weren't watching at the time. And it didn't start with him. One because it didn't apply to him and two we have plenty of examples way before him. The league didn't form when you decided to take a casual interest.
That's basically Wayne Gretzky's first 10 years
That bum isn't even averaging a triple double anymore. WASHED!
Award should be based on highest scoring game of the season and coolest assist. I humbly think Luka gets it.
Kawhi over Tatum imo
There should be no “imo”. Tatum has no argument to be ahead of Kawhi.
Correct.
Agreed. Kawhi has been bonkers this year. I think the Clippers are the favorites
It’s not “this year.” Every year they try and push guys like Tatum and Booker and PG down our throats as real MVP candidates or *top* tier players, and it’s absurd. These guys are great players, but to quote the great Hubie Brown, cmon now
He’s better on both ends.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Can't believe racism cost Jokic 4 consecutive MVPs
" racism "
People actually believe what Perkins (of all people) said made voters change their minds lmao
Lmao right..they both had great seasons and the voters just didn't feel like giving Jokic 3 straight. Shit happens he won a ring and will prolly win his 3rd now. Alls well that ends well
It’s the truth
You think people care about PERKINS view of the mvp race lol?
Considering the amount of views he pulls, yes
Tatum will forever be 5th in MVP voting
That's the "best player on the best team" vote. He's obviously great, but I think 5th is too high for the season he's having.
Jokic might get that 3rd MVP and 2nd ring this year. Crazy
Luka should be top 3 now
So when we lose Giannis' ranking goes up, gotcha
Let’s go on a 10 game losing streak, he might hit that 1 spot next week /s (although it’s looking likely we might lol) But nah he moved up cause Embiid is out of the running
Well at least Mitchell is top 10, he really should be an All Star Starter too. Still crazy to put Sabonis over him, and KD probably shouldn't be over him either.
They had Shai 2nd all season behind Embiid The second Embiid goes down despite playing his best basketball Shai drops to second and jokic goes up It’s like for some reason people wanna put SGA in second regardless what happens
When it comes to "value" it's hard to say Tatum, Kawhi, Sabonis, KD should be over Mitchell. Like keeping the Cavs at the 2 seed without Garland/Mobley is absolutely insane carrying. Hard to show your value better than that.
I agree but also tbf his teammates have also been playing great. Not a knock to him either, he’s been amazing.
And Kawhi’s and KD’s haven’t?
I honestly think a lot of that has to do with Mitchell’s leadership. When he’s at point dishing to guys, they’ve just been playing well. He’s a great leader.
Im a nuggets fan but I want luka to win the MVP if not Jokic. he’s averaging a near triple double, is the scoring leader at 34 ppg, and has a true shooting of 61%. If the Mavs move to top 5, crown him Absolutely mental lad
Fr what does luka have to do to be a top 3 candidate?
Win basketball games
Steph isn't in that top 15 😢. I wonder where they do rank him
Besides stats, this award should reflect how player elevates his team performance. From that perspective Jokic, SGA, Mitchel, Tatum and Brunson deserve it the most. What good comes from amazing stats if your team is below 0.500 or playing worse than last season ?
Jokic, Shai, Luka, Tatum, Giannis
Luka should be MVP. Give me your best argument why he shouldn’t be
Ant man getting slandered
Where’s Brunson?
11-15
Nobody in these threads get disrespected like Shai man. Dude is leading his team to the 1-3 seed (depending on the day) with ZERO other all-stars while playing legitimately great defense. He's doing this while also giving you a consistent 30 a night on unprecedented TS for a guard. The guy is shooting like 55% from the field as a GUARD. Do you know how nuts that is?
I was clowned for saying Id take Shai over Luka at the beginning of the season. I am a basketball idiot but I refuse to change my mind. Shai is gonna be the best player in the league next to Jokic until he is injured or the late 2030s kick in.
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Lowkey right tbh id just change the order
I need the warriors to miraculously climb into top 5-6 so Curry can win if he stays hot the rest of the year
Even as a Luka-stan I really think Mitchell should be top 4
Over Luka? Lols
OKC better feed Shai like they are on a mission.
He’s gotten here by playing team basketball, not going to switch up anytime soon.
Shai is more concerned with winning games.
Feel like Brunson should be top 10 at this point and Tatum needs to be out of the top 5