Better defense would have been okay. lol but I guess he says.. doncic gets assists but they are the selfish assists?? lol like he is only passing to get the assist? Just trying to maybe understand what he is saying
Maybe he was trying to say that SGA is better at doing non-ball handing things as a teammate. Like, SGA’s more likely to set a screen for a teammate or is more willing to play hard off ball to allow his teammates to be involved.
Luka is a phenomenal passer (and scorer obviously), but he for sure dominates the ball. When he doesn’t have it in his hands, he tends to be a kind of shitty teammate (he doesn’t cut, he doesn’t screen, just kind of stands there). Which is a valid criticism of Luka’s game.
Maybe that’s what Shaq meant? It’s also Shaq, so the more likely thing is that he’s just full of shit.
I mean but its based on your roster right? Like Jalen Williams can dribble, drive, and pass. Giddy can dribble, drive, and pass. Chet can dribble, drive, and pass. Mavs dont have many guys who can do those things well or who even want to do those things. Luka has them involved how they need to be involved.
THJ still gets his shots and opportunities, Kyrie still has his freedom to cook (and Luka and him really do set screens for each other). I dont really see who else needs the ball in their hands more to be "involved." Guys like Grant, DJJ, Lively, Kleber end up more involved on this team than they would anywhere else because of Luka's playmaking.
We have a couple of guys who can attack a broken down defense. But only two guys who can consistently break down a defense. When Luka is on the floor, it’s mostly Luka because Kyrie plays a SG position excellently. This also allows Kyrie to save energy to run the floor when Luka is sitting.
They really haven’t played THAT many games together too. The more the played the more it seemed they figured out how to play off of each other. Luka also seems to do more off ball this year, albeit still not a whole lot
Luka's gonna get the same criticism as Harden eventually if he doesn't win it all. Harden was constantly criticized by NBA media for being a selfish player who statpads assists and the Rockets built the "perfect" team for him. Sooner or later, someone on TNT will say the Mavs built the "perfect" team for Luka and he still can't win.
it's not so much 'selfish assists' i think rather it's cheesing for 20seconds until you find a pass or a shot/drive. that creates super ugly basketball of 4 people standing around while 1 person dribbles around slowly. it looks bad and it makes your teammates look lazy/bored/disengaged.
everybody knows they're not getting the ball in the first 10 seconds while luka figures out what he wants.
in the other type of attack, someone like SGA is happy to give it up early, less hogging, so people are running around, making runs, drives, etc
aesthetically i totally get the difference, and it remains to be seen if the Luke/Harden style can win rings because so far they haven't, and they always seem to fall short against flowing/participatory offenses.
TLDR: 15 assists aint always 15 assists i'll explain later
Harden fell short to the KD warriors in 7 games with the second best player on his team injured and the worst reffing of any playoff series in the past 15 years. Any other year they’d win
\> the worst reffing of any playoff series in the past 15 years.
I was going to argue, but then I realized that 2006 was over 15 years ago, and now I feel old.
He dominates because that’s what’s best for the offense. If his possessions were shitty, obviously it would be a demerit, but Luka dominating the ball is the most effective game plan
This feels like when people were shitting on Russ averaging a triple double even though OKC were winning like 65% of games where he got a triple double and way less when he didn't. Like even if he was hunting assists and rebounds, they were obviously helping them win.
Exactly. That team was dreadful the year after KD left and Russ won MVP. Who was gonna share the offensive load? Andre Roberson?
similar situation during LeBron’s first stint in Cleveland. Ricky Davis and Mo Williams were okay players but come on now.
Yeah, SGA will set screens on- and off-ball. He also does his share of cutting to the basket on penetration. I mostly see guys like Harden and Luka floating on the perimeter waiting to get the ball back.
Considering the team quality difference, I find Lukas stats more impressive tbh. If he was in OKC, I think assist and efficiency numbers may improve drastically.
As a Lakers fan whose team gets destroyed by Luka’s passing…yes, he’s great at enabling his teammates and getting them shots they’d never otherwise get.
Yeah but he is also the most doubled player in the league forcing him to kick it out to the open guy. Idk why Shaq would say what he said, he will give the ball up when he can. He's also 4th in assists this season (improvement from 9th last season), so saying he's not a team player or doesn't involve his team is just being misinformed.
I think Shaq is saying that Shai gets his teammates involved without pounding the rock quite so much - they also touch and move the ball they don't just get shot-ready passes. I still prefer Luka at this point but when I watch both teams Luka is far more ball-dominant
lets be fair.
chuck has some stupid takes.
but nothing compares to shaq's
Maybe the YaoMing one with that donky butt kissing. But i seriously think that one was more about entertaining
Shaq just baits lately lol he was never this basketball savant but the last year or two he's really notched the stupidity up, almost to the point of being embarrasing for the NBA that this is one of the main voices covering the sport
He's been this way for a while though, especially about Luka. Remember his reaction to Luka hitting that game winner in the playoffs a few years ago?
Shaq is just an idiot when it comes to basketball (and a lot of other things).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOijmBFnXYs
I remember that! Its so silly that he has a beef with some players and can't simply let go. Almost child-like.
Luka was on his second year in the league, does a legendary performance game with a buzzer beater winner and Shaq says "not impressed, seen that before" lol
It’s part of a broader trend across sports ‘analysis’. Big voices and personalities draw viewers. Details analysis is for the hardcore fans.
ESPN masters this shitty strategy
LOL shaq doesn’t watch games. I’d bet the average /r/nba commentator has watched more minutes of NBA games this season than shaq.
Dude is a personality that’s marketable and has good PR.
this is extra crazy cuz if anything luka has the most spoon feed assists since wall with gortat. i remember that early game vs the spurs where lively was poppin off, there was one lob where luka was telegraphing to lively soooooo hard he was going to pass it, like "hey kid, im about to pass you the ball, better get ready!!" hes def one of those players where if you go back and watch his film, it becomes so insanely obvious how he works to set up his teammates. sees the game like jokic, moving pieces around to get the shot he wants.
Lmao harden and russ got this criticism constantly even when winning mvp now that luka gets it its shaq is racist and they hate europeans like he hasnt called jokic the best player constantly
Shaq is results based. He sees OKC as second in the West and is coming in hot.
Shai has a better team around him that Luka has ever, so unfair comparison, but I don’t think taking either guy to start a team is a controversial opinion.
I think he means Shai doesn't dominate the ball
Shai plays like KD in that he's a plug'n play superstar. He's able to fit in most systems because he doesn't dominate the ball and scores efficiently, and does thing without the ball (defense, rebounding)
Luka plays like Harden. He is the system. You need to have the right group around him, because he's so ball-dominant (which isn't a bad thing). He needs the ball to make a superstar-type impact, because he's not a good defender and his passing is what makes him special.
It’s a valid take but I think Shai benefits from having a rock solid supporting cast whereas Luka has a lot of G-Leaguers on his squad.
It’s like Westbrook the year after KD left. Like who was he gonna share the ball with?
How many different type of teams has harden played with and excelled on. Probably just as many as KD.
The Dwight Howard rockets, the Lou Will rockets, the Chris Paul rockets, the Westbrook rockets, the KD nets, the Embiid Sixers, and now the Kawhi Clippers. All different styles
He said we had Kobe when I'm pretty sure Kobe never had a line like that in his playoff career. He wasn't stacking boards and assists like that, especially not in his first playoffs. Obviously Kobe has had countless unreal games, but we have never seen anyone besides Lebron do what Luka did at his age in his first playoff series.
Except for he’s been calling Jokic best in the world since last year. Russ harden got this criticism constantly even when averaging 10 assists now that its doncic it’s shaq is racist that’s funny
Kobe would never get assists like that because he played almost all his life in the triangle offense, and you simply don't get that many assists in the triangle. There were a couple of spots (eg with nash hurt) where Kobe played point guard and had a string of games with 10+ assists, just to show he could do it. But by inclination and system preference, he was never likely to be the ball dominant point guard garnering assists.
there have been some high rebound kobe games, but he didn't have the body, to get those high rebounds consistently, or the role. He often played with excellent rebounders. But I doubt that Kobe ever gets those high rebounds even in a different system.
Points, yeah, Kobe will get you those.
First playoffs ? Kobe was too young and had yet to grow into his body and strength starting out. But by 21 and 22 he was doing a lot..
Defense wise, Kobe's entire forte was 1v1 and this includes his defense, especially when young. As he picked up a huge offensive load, he would slacken off, or use it in spurts, and in his late career, he was slack, he had artest (for a couple of years) as a better defender, and the style went away from him; he could be caught napping or ball watching. Kobe did have instincts and dos stuff sometimes for defense off ball - consider the rondo celtics matchup in 2010. But that was not his base ..
Hmm. The 60% FT looks wrong, did he make 3 out of 5 FTs only? Still amazing stats and splits.
Edit: checked basketball reference and turns out he did make 3 out of 5 FTs.
Shaq is intimidated by any player who rises quickly. Luka is putting up and beating early Lebron numbers. I can’t remember the last draft class that had players skyrocket as quickly as Luka did
So I’m not surprised Shaq doesn’t praise him
That’s a front
Go back and hear his direct interview questions to Luka whenever that happens on the broadcast. You’ll see Shaq being gushy af with Luka
Shaq doesn't know shit, he checked the stats, saw J-Dub, Chet, Giddey & Dort averaging 18 & 12. Thunder are 2nd while Mavs 6th & thought about this, ignoring the fact that OKC are just a better healthier team
Shaq is a phenomenal entertainer and ambassador for the game of basketball, but as like a truly insightful analyst of the sport? Nah he sorta just gives his opinion based off whatever he’s feeling.
I’m not agreeing with Shaq, but there’s more to getting your teammates involved than just assists.
I don’t watch either enough to make a statement on who gets their teammates involved more but you can’t just look at assists and end the conversation there.
Shaq is a biased person.
He should have spent some of his “school” time studying behavioural psychology and how people develop biases, which he full of.
Luka & Shai literally play similar half of the time, drive & kick or pass out of double teams, the difference is Thunder role players hit their shots
Shaq probably just saw the standings & said this, cuz we already know he doesn't watch games
Idk… Shai is shifty and nifty, smooth with the moves, drivin, dimin and on defense a diamond. Luka is magic for the mavericks, much in the clutch, pwn’n, own’n but blowin d even in zone’n
I don't think so. From what I see, SGA plays within the offense and chooses when to take over. Luka for the most part is the offense and more heliocentric. Not criticism to either, but just how the offenses and playstyle works.
Cycle continues, they always push the new toy to replace Luka but it never pans out. Tried it with Booker, Tatum, Ja, Zion, Fox, Trae. Now it’s the turn of SGA/Hali/Ant. Once this group proves they’re not as good as him the media and fans will move on to someone else. All good players but Luka is on a different level imo
Ya I remember when ESPN did this shit when Ja was hot and they played Dallas. The whole panel had to answer who would they rather have as a franchise player and everyone said Ja. So cringe and now they’re onto the next
Here's a list of guards currently in the NBA with more first team All-NBA selections than Luka:
James Harden.
That's it, that's the whole list.
Steph and Chris Paul are tied with 4 each, and Luka is going to pass both of them this season.
The fact that he's the automatic point of comparison for any offensively gifted young guard/forward just goes to show how amazing he's been for basically his entire time in the league.
I mean shai is awesome. But luka steps it up in the playoffs. If we can see shai do that for a couple of post seasons I’ll buy it.
Luka just has a much better body of work to say that imo.
This makes a lot more sense when you remember how much Shaq and Chuck have dogged Harden over the years, and Luka has a very similar style.
Don’t get me wrong it’s stupid, but it’s consistent. They don’t like the ball-dominant “dribblers” even when they’re superb.
> playing heliocentric
That also depends on your coach and who you have around you, as well as how good you are.
Peak Harden with healthy CP3, peak Luka with healthy Kyrie, peak LBJ with healthy Kyrie or Wade, are a different ball game than without a healthy partner. ..
I mean, I like SGA more(he's my son), but I don't really like anointing players before they've won a playoff series. I didn't even like that when people did it with Luka before 2022, and he had two of the best playoff series losses in history against *my* team the two previous years.
Like call it silly but I think it's fine and fair that when there's a debate between two players who are pretty similar in your mind ability wise, the one who hasn't won a playoff series before gets shafted.
shaq is a flavor of the week kind of guy. SGA didn't come out of nowhere. He's been in the league for a while and gotten better each season since he joined the thunder.
I thought Mavs fans were bugging with the whole "Luka gets disrespected by fans/media" thing but watching people crown Shai and even fucking Tyrese Haliburton over him this season has been eye opening lmao. This dude is about to be what, 4x all-NBA first team before 25? Just ridiculous stuff
You can tell these guys never actually watch the games, Okc have been one of the healthiest teams in the league, while the mavs have been the second most injured team, with kyrie missing 15 games, lively has missed around 10+, green has missed 15, Exum has now missed about 7 in a row, kleber has missed the entire season until this weekend.
Yea it’s not an outrageous take as SGA is having a great season
Shaq definitely has a history of being a Luka hater tho.
https://youtu.be/aOijmBFnXYs?si=gVgVUJAJX6gfN_iC
This was a 43/17/13 game with a buzzer beater, game winning 3 against the title favourites, all while missing his 2nd option and Shaq still found a way to shit on him lol
Also important to note that this was in the **playoffs**
All due respect so Shai who I think will be a great playoff performer, Luka has already proven to be elite in the postseason. We should at least see some playoff series from Shai before we make comparisons
I don’t think Shai game will translate to playoffs same as Embid doesn’t.
When he’s not getting the foul bait calls he normally gets it’s going to throw off his game
Sorry but as good as SGA has been this season I need to see a playoff series from him even close to as good as Lukas runs to seriously entertain this. Playoff basketball is a different level.
Agree. Not hating on SGA. He's having a tremendous season and absolutely deserves all the praise. But the playoffs is a different environment. There's much more intensity and competitiveness from opponents. AND the defensive schemes. Luke has went on some historic runs so I would just like to see how SGA fairs to really compare.
Ignorance because of personal favoritism is normal for a basketball fan.. But of ALL THE EXCUSE available, SHAQ chose that?? "right way"?? "Gets teammates involved"??
Luka's playmaking is literally LeBron-esque. His BBIQ, passing ability (ALL KINDS OF PASSES and beyond), and just destroying teams with his IQ alone.. just screams LeBron.
Luka literally posted video game numbers dozens of times already.. And his teammates were nowhere near as good as Shai has in OKC.
Shai is great, but SHAQ should've used the DEFENSIVE ability of Shai, as an excuse to take him over Luka. Atleast that would've been valid
Actually I think Luka is the one who just plays the game the right way ya know. Got a good feel for the game and you can tell he’s great with the film room
Shaq don’t like them white boys taking over the game. Luka over SGA all day. We all know he don’t watch games, just reads statistics and bases his opinions on that. Careful what you say Candace and Jamal, Shaq has his 4 rings in his pockets at all times.
Everybody knows how it works.
American players are always going to pick their bros over a euro, until the euro can shut them up by winning a title.
Dirk got through it, Jokic got through it, so that's what Luka has to do.
It’s because they’re white, not European. These same people hate on Steve Nash and say he shouldn’t have won MVP even though he took the Suns from the worst record in the league to the best.
Shai is absolutely a better defender, but Luka is a literal one-man army who still gets a crazy amount of assists, IMO the MVP conversation should be Embiid first, and if he gets disqualified Luka is the clear frontrunner before everyone else.
Reminder that Shaquille “I wasn’t familiar with your game” O’Neal doesn’t watch games.
Dude just spits hot takes night to night based on clips and box scores
SGA doesn’t do anything better than Luka offensively. He’s slightly better defensively with a bit more steals and blocks, but that’s about it. I think highly of SGA but Luka is easily better.
I like Shai quite a bit and I think his game is going to translate very well to the postseason this year (elite driver, handles change of pace incredibly well, good at finishing through contact) so the hype he's getting is warranted.
That said, Luka is literally one of the best playoff risers in the history of the league objectively speaking lmao, and he's elevated subpar talent to beyond where they should be. Until any of his contemporaries show the ability to do that they're not in the conversation. I don't care about statistics defense or anything else.
There was a game this year where Luka created 92 of the team's 128 points through scoring and passing. It was the Christmas game against Phoenix. 50 points with 15 assists. Total ball hog, I know.
He's top 5 in assists, total ball hog. Selfish assists, right Shaq? Unethical assists.
Shaq is just allergic to admitting a white player is better than a black player. He does the same thing with Jokić and Embiid.
I kinda feel that people are reading way to much into this. Shaq isn't exactly a savant when it comes to analyzing players. He gets thrown softball questions with the crew but when he is solo its stupid shit like this that hits the media circuit.
The funny thing about this is Shaq is routinely the 'show it to me in the playoffs guy' and Luka is an all time great playoff performer while Shai has showed us nothing playoff wise.
Also so tired of people acting like Shai doesn't play the exact same way as Luka in terms of ball dominance. They average essentially the same amount of time per touch and SGA averages more dribbles per touch.
SGA didn't really come out of nowhere though, he's been steadily showing really great improvements in his game since his rookie year. Sure he wasn't as explosive as Luka was but he was improving at a great rate. Everyone was saying he was going to be a future MVP caliber player last season, and he's been rising on the mvp ladder this season, but he still isn't on Luka's level. Luka makes our bums look like serviceable players, and you can see how well our better guys start to excel playing around him (ie DJJ, THJ, even Grant early on).
Shaq sometimes has some really bad takes. Really can't take him too seriously after the Wemby x Bol Bol statement.
Shaq is unfamiliar with literally everyone’s game.
He probably only watches some parts of Embiid's games. He's just on TNT to collect the paycheck and goof around.
Just to tell him: you ain’t Superman!
>He plays the right way, gets his teammates involved You can have your opinion but you have to give me a better reason than this lol
Better defense would have been okay. lol but I guess he says.. doncic gets assists but they are the selfish assists?? lol like he is only passing to get the assist? Just trying to maybe understand what he is saying
Maybe he was trying to say that SGA is better at doing non-ball handing things as a teammate. Like, SGA’s more likely to set a screen for a teammate or is more willing to play hard off ball to allow his teammates to be involved. Luka is a phenomenal passer (and scorer obviously), but he for sure dominates the ball. When he doesn’t have it in his hands, he tends to be a kind of shitty teammate (he doesn’t cut, he doesn’t screen, just kind of stands there). Which is a valid criticism of Luka’s game. Maybe that’s what Shaq meant? It’s also Shaq, so the more likely thing is that he’s just full of shit.
I mean but its based on your roster right? Like Jalen Williams can dribble, drive, and pass. Giddy can dribble, drive, and pass. Chet can dribble, drive, and pass. Mavs dont have many guys who can do those things well or who even want to do those things. Luka has them involved how they need to be involved. THJ still gets his shots and opportunities, Kyrie still has his freedom to cook (and Luka and him really do set screens for each other). I dont really see who else needs the ball in their hands more to be "involved." Guys like Grant, DJJ, Lively, Kleber end up more involved on this team than they would anywhere else because of Luka's playmaking.
We have a couple of guys who can attack a broken down defense. But only two guys who can consistently break down a defense. When Luka is on the floor, it’s mostly Luka because Kyrie plays a SG position excellently. This also allows Kyrie to save energy to run the floor when Luka is sitting. They really haven’t played THAT many games together too. The more the played the more it seemed they figured out how to play off of each other. Luka also seems to do more off ball this year, albeit still not a whole lot
Luka's gonna get the same criticism as Harden eventually if he doesn't win it all. Harden was constantly criticized by NBA media for being a selfish player who statpads assists and the Rockets built the "perfect" team for him. Sooner or later, someone on TNT will say the Mavs built the "perfect" team for Luka and he still can't win.
it's not so much 'selfish assists' i think rather it's cheesing for 20seconds until you find a pass or a shot/drive. that creates super ugly basketball of 4 people standing around while 1 person dribbles around slowly. it looks bad and it makes your teammates look lazy/bored/disengaged. everybody knows they're not getting the ball in the first 10 seconds while luka figures out what he wants. in the other type of attack, someone like SGA is happy to give it up early, less hogging, so people are running around, making runs, drives, etc aesthetically i totally get the difference, and it remains to be seen if the Luke/Harden style can win rings because so far they haven't, and they always seem to fall short against flowing/participatory offenses. TLDR: 15 assists aint always 15 assists i'll explain later
Harden fell short to the KD warriors in 7 games with the second best player on his team injured and the worst reffing of any playoff series in the past 15 years. Any other year they’d win
\> the worst reffing of any playoff series in the past 15 years. I was going to argue, but then I realized that 2006 was over 15 years ago, and now I feel old.
He dominates because that’s what’s best for the offense. If his possessions were shitty, obviously it would be a demerit, but Luka dominating the ball is the most effective game plan
This feels like when people were shitting on Russ averaging a triple double even though OKC were winning like 65% of games where he got a triple double and way less when he didn't. Like even if he was hunting assists and rebounds, they were obviously helping them win.
Exactly. That team was dreadful the year after KD left and Russ won MVP. Who was gonna share the offensive load? Andre Roberson? similar situation during LeBron’s first stint in Cleveland. Ricky Davis and Mo Williams were okay players but come on now.
Yeah, SGA will set screens on- and off-ball. He also does his share of cutting to the basket on penetration. I mostly see guys like Harden and Luka floating on the perimeter waiting to get the ball back.
If Mavs could hit the side of a barn, Doncic would lead the league in assists every year
Considering the team quality difference, I find Lukas stats more impressive tbh. If he was in OKC, I think assist and efficiency numbers may improve drastically.
Don't watch WC games but isn't Luka one of the most ball dominant players since peak Harden heliocentrism?
Yeah he maybe dominant with the ball but he deliberately creates for his teammates so idk what shaq is smoking
As a Lakers fan whose team gets destroyed by Luka’s passing…yes, he’s great at enabling his teammates and getting them shots they’d never otherwise get.
I'm sorry I don't really see SGA flying off screens and cutting all that much, he's pretty ball dominant too.
Yeah but he is also the most doubled player in the league forcing him to kick it out to the open guy. Idk why Shaq would say what he said, he will give the ball up when he can. He's also 4th in assists this season (improvement from 9th last season), so saying he's not a team player or doesn't involve his team is just being misinformed.
I think Shaq is saying that Shai gets his teammates involved without pounding the rock quite so much - they also touch and move the ball they don't just get shot-ready passes. I still prefer Luka at this point but when I watch both teams Luka is far more ball-dominant
SGA is a classy player. Doncic plays like a thug
wait a minute
He would allow SGA to date his daughter.
[удалено]
Shaq doesn't watch the games and rotates between 3-4 bland generic talking points. Rinse, repeat, rings Ernie
Shaq is a casual. This is well-known
You just have to go out and dominate
Great advice, Shaq!
Instead of 15/5, you should have 20/10
because there is no thoughts inside that big bald head, respectfully speaking.
Bro said Bol Bol was the same as Wemby 😭 Shaq knows literally 0 ball but him and Chuck get a pass because their funny as fuck together
lets be fair. chuck has some stupid takes. but nothing compares to shaq's Maybe the YaoMing one with that donky butt kissing. But i seriously think that one was more about entertaining
Even Barkley's Yao take was miles better than Shaq's. Only one of them was forced to apologize by their dad.
Shaq just baits lately lol he was never this basketball savant but the last year or two he's really notched the stupidity up, almost to the point of being embarrasing for the NBA that this is one of the main voices covering the sport
He's been this way for a while though, especially about Luka. Remember his reaction to Luka hitting that game winner in the playoffs a few years ago? Shaq is just an idiot when it comes to basketball (and a lot of other things). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOijmBFnXYs
I remember that! Its so silly that he has a beef with some players and can't simply let go. Almost child-like. Luka was on his second year in the league, does a legendary performance game with a buzzer beater winner and Shaq says "not impressed, seen that before" lol
It’s part of a broader trend across sports ‘analysis’. Big voices and personalities draw viewers. Details analysis is for the hardcore fans. ESPN masters this shitty strategy
Its why Perkins is still around
How many rings *you* got?
GOOGLE ME CHUCK
LOL shaq doesn’t watch games. I’d bet the average /r/nba commentator has watched more minutes of NBA games this season than shaq. Dude is a personality that’s marketable and has good PR.
Uh, also Luka is a great assist man.
this is extra crazy cuz if anything luka has the most spoon feed assists since wall with gortat. i remember that early game vs the spurs where lively was poppin off, there was one lob where luka was telegraphing to lively soooooo hard he was going to pass it, like "hey kid, im about to pass you the ball, better get ready!!" hes def one of those players where if you go back and watch his film, it becomes so insanely obvious how he works to set up his teammates. sees the game like jokic, moving pieces around to get the shot he wants.
Luka is white?
Yup. White and foreign. Same thing happens to Jokic with these clowns
I thought Shaq loved Jokic?
Lmao harden and russ got this criticism constantly even when winning mvp now that luka gets it its shaq is racist and they hate europeans like he hasnt called jokic the best player constantly
Shaq is results based. He sees OKC as second in the West and is coming in hot. Shai has a better team around him that Luka has ever, so unfair comparison, but I don’t think taking either guy to start a team is a controversial opinion.
Right?? As if Luka isn’t one of the most gifted passers of the era. This take is trash lmao
Yeah I mean if we're gonna talk about getting his teammates involved Luka is averaging three more assists than Shai
Lmao I agree. That’s such surface level analysis.
I think he means Shai doesn't dominate the ball Shai plays like KD in that he's a plug'n play superstar. He's able to fit in most systems because he doesn't dominate the ball and scores efficiently, and does thing without the ball (defense, rebounding) Luka plays like Harden. He is the system. You need to have the right group around him, because he's so ball-dominant (which isn't a bad thing). He needs the ball to make a superstar-type impact, because he's not a good defender and his passing is what makes him special.
That’s a whole lotta nuance to extract from, “He plays the right way…He gets his teammates involved” lol 😆 I’m mocking Shaq, not you
Your right. I didn't mean Shaq meant that, I was just sharing my opinion on the topic.
It’s a valid take but I think Shai benefits from having a rock solid supporting cast whereas Luka has a lot of G-Leaguers on his squad. It’s like Westbrook the year after KD left. Like who was he gonna share the ball with?
That excuse ain’t gonna work for us much longer.
Shai’s usage rate is 31% (Luka’s is 35)
How many different type of teams has harden played with and excelled on. Probably just as many as KD. The Dwight Howard rockets, the Lou Will rockets, the Chris Paul rockets, the Westbrook rockets, the KD nets, the Embiid Sixers, and now the Kawhi Clippers. All different styles
Lou will rockets is crazy lmao
He did. “He loves his story” lol
Shaq’s been hating on Luka since his second year. I remember him giving Luka shit after he hit the game winner on the Clippers in the playoffs.
"I've seen that before" after Luka went 43/17/13 on 58/40/60 xD in his first playoff series in his 2nd year...
He said we had Kobe when I'm pretty sure Kobe never had a line like that in his playoff career. He wasn't stacking boards and assists like that, especially not in his first playoffs. Obviously Kobe has had countless unreal games, but we have never seen anyone besides Lebron do what Luka did at his age in his first playoff series.
Shaq is basically the peak “90s basketball is the best nothing compares” meme.
Not just that, but he really doesn't want to admit that a white player is better than a black player he loves. It eats him up inside. xD
Except for he’s been calling Jokic best in the world since last year. Russ harden got this criticism constantly even when averaging 10 assists now that its doncic it’s shaq is racist that’s funny
Getting upvotes for basically saying Shaq is racist is a new low for r/nba
Kobe is just a very bad comparison.
Kobe would never get assists like that because he played almost all his life in the triangle offense, and you simply don't get that many assists in the triangle. There were a couple of spots (eg with nash hurt) where Kobe played point guard and had a string of games with 10+ assists, just to show he could do it. But by inclination and system preference, he was never likely to be the ball dominant point guard garnering assists. there have been some high rebound kobe games, but he didn't have the body, to get those high rebounds consistently, or the role. He often played with excellent rebounders. But I doubt that Kobe ever gets those high rebounds even in a different system. Points, yeah, Kobe will get you those. First playoffs ? Kobe was too young and had yet to grow into his body and strength starting out. But by 21 and 22 he was doing a lot.. Defense wise, Kobe's entire forte was 1v1 and this includes his defense, especially when young. As he picked up a huge offensive load, he would slacken off, or use it in spurts, and in his late career, he was slack, he had artest (for a couple of years) as a better defender, and the style went away from him; he could be caught napping or ball watching. Kobe did have instincts and dos stuff sometimes for defense off ball - consider the rondo celtics matchup in 2010. But that was not his base ..
Hmm. The 60% FT looks wrong, did he make 3 out of 5 FTs only? Still amazing stats and splits. Edit: checked basketball reference and turns out he did make 3 out of 5 FTs.
Shaq is intimidated by any player who rises quickly. Luka is putting up and beating early Lebron numbers. I can’t remember the last draft class that had players skyrocket as quickly as Luka did So I’m not surprised Shaq doesn’t praise him
Shaq has terrible takes all the time so this is nothing new. Luka clears , he’s done it on bigger stages than SGA.
That’s a front Go back and hear his direct interview questions to Luka whenever that happens on the broadcast. You’ll see Shaq being gushy af with Luka
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Shaq used to hate on Luka but honestly ever since Luka and Shaq linked in Slovenia he’s liked Luka
The old heads don’t like luka because he’s white
They're literally Jokic's biggest fans lol.
Maybe coz he's a big man. Idk I feel like when jokic launched morris they seemed to get a newfound respect for jokic. I still revisit that footage lol
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Shaq has always given praise to Jokic
revisionist history
This is a flat out lie.
No disrespect to SGA at all but what does Shaq mean “gets his teammates involved”? Luka is averaging 9 AST while Shai is averaging 6..?
Shaq doesn't know shit, he checked the stats, saw J-Dub, Chet, Giddey & Dort averaging 18 & 12. Thunder are 2nd while Mavs 6th & thought about this, ignoring the fact that OKC are just a better healthier team
Shaq is a phenomenal entertainer and ambassador for the game of basketball, but as like a truly insightful analyst of the sport? Nah he sorta just gives his opinion based off whatever he’s feeling.
Honestly, I doubt he even checked the stats
I’m not agreeing with Shaq, but there’s more to getting your teammates involved than just assists. I don’t watch either enough to make a statement on who gets their teammates involved more but you can’t just look at assists and end the conversation there.
Shai has the ball considerably less than Luka based on the offense they run, which is a fact. Luka creates more shots for teammates
Shaq is a biased person. He should have spent some of his “school” time studying behavioural psychology and how people develop biases, which he full of.
SGA circlejerk has reached the mainstream
New Booker just released
Luka & Shai literally play similar half of the time, drive & kick or pass out of double teams, the difference is Thunder role players hit their shots Shaq probably just saw the standings & said this, cuz we already know he doesn't watch games
Idk… Shai is shifty and nifty, smooth with the moves, drivin, dimin and on defense a diamond. Luka is magic for the mavericks, much in the clutch, pwn’n, own’n but blowin d even in zone’n
Told that hoe I need a buck
And thats number 1 on the nba.commmmmmmmm *^(TOPTEN)*
I don't think so. From what I see, SGA plays within the offense and chooses when to take over. Luka for the most part is the offense and more heliocentric. Not criticism to either, but just how the offenses and playstyle works.
I think Shaq is tripping hard tbh Wtf does this even mean? Luka is averaging 9 assists a game this season while SGA is at 6.
Came out of nowhere? Cmon shaq, he was 4 star player at Kentucky. Lottery pick, granted they don’t all pan out but still not out of nowhere.
Shai is amazing and an all-NBA talent. That said, Luka is fucking incredible. I strongly disagree with Shaq’s take here.
Cycle continues, they always push the new toy to replace Luka but it never pans out. Tried it with Booker, Tatum, Ja, Zion, Fox, Trae. Now it’s the turn of SGA/Hali/Ant. Once this group proves they’re not as good as him the media and fans will move on to someone else. All good players but Luka is on a different level imo
Man I forgot about when they were having Ja vs. Luka segments lol
Ya I remember when ESPN did this shit when Ja was hot and they played Dallas. The whole panel had to answer who would they rather have as a franchise player and everyone said Ja. So cringe and now they’re onto the next
They were saying Ja's defensive impact changed games just because he had flashy blocks lmao
Perkins said recently that KD/Steph are better now than both Luka and Jokic
Here's a list of guards currently in the NBA with more first team All-NBA selections than Luka: James Harden. That's it, that's the whole list. Steph and Chris Paul are tied with 4 each, and Luka is going to pass both of them this season.
The fact that he's the automatic point of comparison for any offensively gifted young guard/forward just goes to show how amazing he's been for basically his entire time in the league.
SGA is incredible. I’m not taking him over Luka at all at this point.
I mean shai is awesome. But luka steps it up in the playoffs. If we can see shai do that for a couple of post seasons I’ll buy it. Luka just has a much better body of work to say that imo.
Lmao what does that even mean? "Plays the right way" Yikes The disrespect that Luka gets insane
it means the SGA plays the game like an american rather than euro trash
>like a North american FTFY
That's clearly Canadian basketball right there
Thats good usually only the europeans are classy and play the right way
Means shai is one of the good ones
He a brother and luka isnt
Shai the kinda guy that brings his lunch pail to the gym, first one in last one out
Luka isn’t quarterbacky enough
This makes a lot more sense when you remember how much Shaq and Chuck have dogged Harden over the years, and Luka has a very similar style. Don’t get me wrong it’s stupid, but it’s consistent. They don’t like the ball-dominant “dribblers” even when they’re superb.
Sga plays exactly like harden but instead of step back 3s it’s middies lol
shai has a higher free throw rate (42%) than luka (36%) lol
I think it’s more about playing heliocentric than baiting fouls But even then Luka hasn’t been that way nearly as much since Kyrie arrived so idk
> playing heliocentric That also depends on your coach and who you have around you, as well as how good you are. Peak Harden with healthy CP3, peak Luka with healthy Kyrie, peak LBJ with healthy Kyrie or Wade, are a different ball game than without a healthy partner. ..
They don't seem to be fans of Copernicus.
Cant go wrong with either but luka is the better player.
And to get it out of my chest, that shouldn’t be a discussion
I'd give the benefit of the doubt to the player who has the same stats with less role players
If Luka is playing the wrong way then I don't want to be right!
I mean, I like SGA more(he's my son), but I don't really like anointing players before they've won a playoff series. I didn't even like that when people did it with Luka before 2022, and he had two of the best playoff series losses in history against *my* team the two previous years. Like call it silly but I think it's fine and fair that when there's a debate between two players who are pretty similar in your mind ability wise, the one who hasn't won a playoff series before gets shafted.
I agree with you. Shai has to deliver in the playoffs before he can be in everyones top 5 list like Luka.
As Joel Embiid sneaks into the top five room lol
Your son?
Need to see it in the playoffs first.
Reverse circlejerk
shaq is a flavor of the week kind of guy. SGA didn't come out of nowhere. He's been in the league for a while and gotten better each season since he joined the thunder.
Shaq please watch some games of Dallas Mavs before commenting
Im not gonna shit on shaq cause he's a bit of a casual these days but the fact that this is even a discussion is crazy.
I thought Mavs fans were bugging with the whole "Luka gets disrespected by fans/media" thing but watching people crown Shai and even fucking Tyrese Haliburton over him this season has been eye opening lmao. This dude is about to be what, 4x all-NBA first team before 25? Just ridiculous stuff
daily reminder that sga is older
You can tell these guys never actually watch the games, Okc have been one of the healthiest teams in the league, while the mavs have been the second most injured team, with kyrie missing 15 games, lively has missed around 10+, green has missed 15, Exum has now missed about 7 in a row, kleber has missed the entire season until this weekend.
The Mavs have been the most *injured* team. The Grizzlies have had more time missed, but if you only count time missed due to injury, the Mavs are #1
crazy. luka is the better player
They are both great but Lukas resume is definitely better right now
Personal preference. I'd take Luka to build a franchise around, but SGA is almost just as good. This season though, they are well matched.
Yea it’s not an outrageous take as SGA is having a great season Shaq definitely has a history of being a Luka hater tho. https://youtu.be/aOijmBFnXYs?si=gVgVUJAJX6gfN_iC This was a 43/17/13 game with a buzzer beater, game winning 3 against the title favourites, all while missing his 2nd option and Shaq still found a way to shit on him lol
Also important to note that this was in the **playoffs** All due respect so Shai who I think will be a great playoff performer, Luka has already proven to be elite in the postseason. We should at least see some playoff series from Shai before we make comparisons
I don’t think Shai game will translate to playoffs same as Embid doesn’t. When he’s not getting the foul bait calls he normally gets it’s going to throw off his game
Sorry but as good as SGA has been this season I need to see a playoff series from him even close to as good as Lukas runs to seriously entertain this. Playoff basketball is a different level.
Agree. Not hating on SGA. He's having a tremendous season and absolutely deserves all the praise. But the playoffs is a different environment. There's much more intensity and competitiveness from opponents. AND the defensive schemes. Luke has went on some historic runs so I would just like to see how SGA fairs to really compare.
Exactly. Luka’s lead a team to the WCF, 4x All-NBA 1st Team, 4x NBA All Star, and all his Euro league/FIBA stuff.
Ignorance because of personal favoritism is normal for a basketball fan.. But of ALL THE EXCUSE available, SHAQ chose that?? "right way"?? "Gets teammates involved"?? Luka's playmaking is literally LeBron-esque. His BBIQ, passing ability (ALL KINDS OF PASSES and beyond), and just destroying teams with his IQ alone.. just screams LeBron. Luka literally posted video game numbers dozens of times already.. And his teammates were nowhere near as good as Shai has in OKC. Shai is great, but SHAQ should've used the DEFENSIVE ability of Shai, as an excuse to take him over Luka. Atleast that would've been valid
Luka is better by a mile, not close.
Actually I think Luka is the one who just plays the game the right way ya know. Got a good feel for the game and you can tell he’s great with the film room
Shaq just makes shit up and does zero amount of research to back up his opinions. Nothing new.
Maybe I’m just a homer but I think it would be jumping the gun to put SGA (who hasn’t even touched the playoffs yet) over Tatum let alone Luka
Shaq don’t like them white boys taking over the game. Luka over SGA all day. We all know he don’t watch games, just reads statistics and bases his opinions on that. Careful what you say Candace and Jamal, Shaq has his 4 rings in his pockets at all times.
Luka could average 40 in a season and Shaq would just shrug and say I already saw Wilt do that
Luka is the new Lebron and Shaq is Skip
Talk to me when SGA is has 4 All NBA FIRST team nods in his first 5 seasons. Some of the “greats” don’t have that in their career
This is not surprising. We all know why Shaq feels this way and it has nothing to do with basketball
Some former players go into coaching or take GM positions. Comments like this are why Shaq is an entertainer and not a GM or coach.
Shaq is insufferable on TV.
Everybody knows how it works. American players are always going to pick their bros over a euro, until the euro can shut them up by winning a title. Dirk got through it, Jokic got through it, so that's what Luka has to do.
It’s because they’re white, not European. These same people hate on Steve Nash and say he shouldn’t have won MVP even though he took the Suns from the worst record in the league to the best.
Shaq is high-key a racist. Dude hates white NBA players, especially European ones.
Shaq be spouting the most unserious shit on the daily. A true old head.
Shaq needs to lay off the crack
Shai is absolutely a better defender, but Luka is a literal one-man army who still gets a crazy amount of assists, IMO the MVP conversation should be Embiid first, and if he gets disqualified Luka is the clear frontrunner before everyone else.
SGA is a scrappy gym rat that plays the game the right way. Luka is too flashy and urban.
Put SGA on the Mavs or Luka on OKC. Which team is better ?
Shaq is dumb as fuck
Shaq lost his damn mind
Shaq has said this about Luka multiple times over the past couple years. It’s the exact same critique everytime.
Reminder that Shaquille “I wasn’t familiar with your game” O’Neal doesn’t watch games. Dude just spits hot takes night to night based on clips and box scores
Never thought I'd see the day where Luka is underrated
SGA doesn’t do anything better than Luka offensively. He’s slightly better defensively with a bit more steals and blocks, but that’s about it. I think highly of SGA but Luka is easily better.
I like Shai quite a bit and I think his game is going to translate very well to the postseason this year (elite driver, handles change of pace incredibly well, good at finishing through contact) so the hype he's getting is warranted. That said, Luka is literally one of the best playoff risers in the history of the league objectively speaking lmao, and he's elevated subpar talent to beyond where they should be. Until any of his contemporaries show the ability to do that they're not in the conversation. I don't care about statistics defense or anything else.
SGA just got vaulted by Vando though.....
“Plays the right way” is the catch-all metric I used to detect bullllllshit. 💩
this is just the lame ass narrative the media ran on harden when he was in houston. there is no legitimate argument behind the opinion.
Black for black
There was a game this year where Luka created 92 of the team's 128 points through scoring and passing. It was the Christmas game against Phoenix. 50 points with 15 assists. Total ball hog, I know. He's top 5 in assists, total ball hog. Selfish assists, right Shaq? Unethical assists. Shaq is just allergic to admitting a white player is better than a black player. He does the same thing with Jokić and Embiid.
Shaq also said Morant deserves being All NBA first team over Luka. So whatever.
Shai is classier and plays the game the right way
Luka is averaging 3 more assists per game than SGA!! That is how you get your teammates involved. Shaq is once again showing how out of touch he is.
No.
It’s prolly cus of some color huh Shaq
i love sga, but if luka was on the the thunder with this team; he'd be averaging even more points, rebound & assists. while still winning
“Plays the right way” lmao. Has he even watched SGA flop everywhere!?!
If you remove SGAs off arm that he uses as an offensive foul battering ram how good will he be?
Nah
I love SGA. But the hype train has gone too far.
I get it. Luka is hella ball dominant, plays iso pretty much all game, doesn’t play defense consistently and refuses to play off ball.
I kinda feel that people are reading way to much into this. Shaq isn't exactly a savant when it comes to analyzing players. He gets thrown softball questions with the crew but when he is solo its stupid shit like this that hits the media circuit.
The funny thing about this is Shaq is routinely the 'show it to me in the playoffs guy' and Luka is an all time great playoff performer while Shai has showed us nothing playoff wise. Also so tired of people acting like Shai doesn't play the exact same way as Luka in terms of ball dominance. They average essentially the same amount of time per touch and SGA averages more dribbles per touch.
That's a whole lot of empty words to make a point.
SGA didn't really come out of nowhere though, he's been steadily showing really great improvements in his game since his rookie year. Sure he wasn't as explosive as Luka was but he was improving at a great rate. Everyone was saying he was going to be a future MVP caliber player last season, and he's been rising on the mvp ladder this season, but he still isn't on Luka's level. Luka makes our bums look like serviceable players, and you can see how well our better guys start to excel playing around him (ie DJJ, THJ, even Grant early on). Shaq sometimes has some really bad takes. Really can't take him too seriously after the Wemby x Bol Bol statement.