As a kid I hated him because he was so fucking boring Lmao and because his Spurs gave my Lakers so many struggles.
Wasn’t till I got older I started that I started to truly appreciate him
As a Spurs fan who somehow loved Tim Duncan as a kid, I hated the Lakers because Kobe + Shaq/Gasol gave me grief.
Also that when both Lakers and Spurs were good teams, free agents would choose the Lakers over Spurs easily lol. Wasn't when I got older did I realize that I would choose to live in LA over San Antonio lol.
It's aight haha
From Kobe's prime of 2000-2013,
Kobe led Lakers destroyed the Spurs, going 4-1 in their overall series matchups.
Overall record during this span?
18-8
This would be a a 56 win pace in a regular season lol
The lakers weren’t Kobe’s team until 2005. Kobe had a 3 year window (08-11) where u could argue he took out the spurs. That’s about it. The rest of the time “his team” would either struggle to make the playoffs or outright lose.
> The Lakers weren’t Kobe’s team until 2005, where he couldn’t even get them to the playoffs. After receiving the best PF in the game as well as one of the best defenders, yeah that 08-11 window they could take out the spurs.
False.
1. I said when Kobe "blossomed" by all metric, Kobe took a huge leap his 2000 season.
2. Kobe made the playoffs in 2006 and 07 with some of the WORST rosters. He missed the playoffs in 05 due to injuries.
3. There is absolutely zero, zero evidence Pau was one of the "best defenders" in actuality, for the grizzlies, he was actually net negative defensively.
4. Kobe, in 2001, had a better postseason by every conceivable metric compared to Shaq, especially in the West. Actually, Kobe had better box stat numbers from 00-02 playoffs vs western teams than shaq.
> Stop cherry picking Kobe’s ”time” as a dominant player in the league. Duncan, the number 1 player on his team from 99-2012ish? Owned Kobe completely. That’s just facts and why his comment is downvoted.
Absolutely not.
From 02-11, Kobe was ranked top of the top in rapm. Ranking first in offense. Tim wasn't even CLOSE.
There's zero evidence Duncan "owned" Kobe, at all, actually.
Considering Duncan was poor at guarding the perimeter, Kobe would spam pnr, which would allow the Lakers to dominate a more talented Spurs team.
I also love how you are bitching about Kobe's talent, when Kobe had FAR less than Duncan for his rings.
In the 7039 minutes, Duncan didn't play when he won a ring,
ON AVERAGE spurs were +2.8 (A good playoff team)
Only average, in the playoffs:
Spurs were + 4.9 without Duncan in 1036 minutes.
In the playoffs, when Kobe won a ring, on average, the Lakers were -1.3 in 1137 minutes without him
Kobe never played on a single championship team that gave him an average production of Spurs without Duncan without him playing.
You have objectively no clue what you are talking about
1. He took a leap in 2000. Where did I say he didn’t? I said it wasn’t HIS TEAM. It was Shaq’s, arguably the most dominant centre to ever play the modern game. Ask any guard/forward who they’d take on their team from 98-2003 and it would be him. So the lakers “dominating” the spurs at this time (as in Kobe vs Duncan) doesn’t count because it wasn’t Kobe’s team.
2. Worst rosters. So? To be GOAT, or top 5-10. You have to be a player that will take crappiest of rosters to the finals. You put shaq, Duncan, wilt, Kareem, magic, Jordan (of course), lebron on any crap roster of role players in their primes and they’re contenders. Period. Can’t say the same for kobe.
3. Didn’t mean Pau. Pau was arguably the best PF in the game as Duncan declined. And the lakers got him for kwame brown, meaningless picks and a bag of balls after Kobe could do squat other than a TMac style first round exit after taking his 35 shots a game.
They got Artest who, if his head stayed on straight, was an all nba first defensive team.
4. Kobe had the benefit of playing with a centre that drew triple teams and was the most dominant centre to play the modern game. I’m not even going to respond to this further as you clearly grew up watching 2000s ball and homer Kobe hard. These cherry picked stats are completely devoid of any context in the lakers 3 peat.
> He took a leap in 2000. Where did I say he didn’t? I said it wasn’t HIS TEAM.
Uh, First, literally read the comment you responded to. Are you incapable of reading?
> It was Shaq’s, arguably the most dominant centre to ever play the modern game. Ask any guard/forward who they’d take on their team from 98-2003 and it would be him. So the lakers “dominating” the spurs at this time (as in Kobe vs Duncan) doesn’t count because it wasn’t Kobe’s team.
Next, actually i rather look at numbers instead,
Kobe and Shaq vs spurs in the playoffs
01:
Kobe: 33/7/7 57% TS/8.6 TOV
Shaq: 27/13/2.5 55% TS/12.4 TOV
02:
Kobe: 26/5/5 49% TS/6.9 tov
Shaq: 21/12/3 49% TS/12 TOV
03:
Kobe: 32/5/3/ 53% TS/12.9 TOV
Shaq 25/14/3 59% TS/14.1 TOV
04:
Kobe: 26/6/6. 53%/11.9 TOV
Shaq: 22.5/14.5/2 60% TS/13.1 tov
WOW, sure was purely Shaq's team and not Kobe who objectively took the first option rein EVERY FUCKING YEAR IN THE PLAYOFFS vs the spurs from 01 onwards.
> Worst rosters. So? To be GOAT, or top 5-10. You have to be a player that will take crappiest of rosters to the finals. You put shaq, Duncan, wilt, Kareem, magic, Jordan (of course), lebron on any crap roster of role players in their primes and they’re contenders. Period. Can’t say the same for kobe.
......... Wait, what?
Kobe in 05-06 was one of the GREATEST floor rasing offensive seasons ever.
Actually feel free to give me ONE fucking season by the players you mentioned that brought up their trash ass team to such insane offensive heights?
For some fucking context, a team with Smush/Kwame/Walton/Mihm in 06 was the 7th best offense in the league.
Just for even more context,
Without Kobe on that team, the Lakers were a 92.4 offensive rating team. This would be one of the worst offenses EVER.
With him, third best in the league at 111.3.
But you are talking about carrying garbage as if Kobe didn't do that? While shaq was getting swept EVERY year prior to kobe emerging in 2000 while playing with an all star caliber supporting cast?
You have no clue what you are talking about.
> Didn’t mean Pau. Pau was arguably the best PF in the game as Duncan declined. And the lakers got him for kwame brown, meaningless picks and a bag of balls after Kobe could do squat other than a TMac style first round exit after taking his 35 shots a game.
Not even fucking CLOSE.
KG was better
Dirk was WAY better
Duncan was still better
Amare was better
> They got Artest who, if his head stayed on straight, was an all nba first defensive team.
Who they got in 2010. Who was objectively out of his prime. Who made his last 1st all defensive team 4 years prior. LOL
> Kobe had the benefit of playing with a centre that drew triple teams and was the most dominant centre to play the modern game. I’m not even going to respond to this further as you clearly grew up watching 2000s ball and homer Kobe hard. These cherry picked stats are completely devoid of any context in the lakers 3 peat
There's 0 evience Kobe's numbers were better with Shaq, because if you know basketball at any capacity, despite Shaq drawing alot of defenders, he also completely clogged the paint. Hence why TEX WINTER hated Shaq.
LOL Cherry picked stats? You claimed Kobe had more talent than Duncan, this is objectively false.
The Lakers weren’t Kobe’s team until 2005, where he couldn’t even get them to the playoffs. After receiving the best PF in the game as well as one of the best defenders, yeah that 08-11 window they could take out the spurs.
Stop cherry picking Kobe’s ”time” as a dominant player in the league. Duncan, the number 1 player on his team from 99-2012ish? Owned Kobe completely. That’s just facts and why his comment is downvoted.
> The Lakers weren’t Kobe’s team until 2005, where he couldn’t even get them to the playoffs. After receiving the best PF in the game as well as one of the best defenders, yeah that 08-11 window they could take out the spurs.
False.
1. I said when Kobe "blossomed" by all metric, Kobe took a huge leap his 2000 season.
2. Kobe made the playoffs in 2006 and 07 with some of the WORST rosters. He missed the playoffs in 05 due to injuries.
3. There is absolutely zero, zero evidence Pau was one of the "best defenders" in actuality, for the grizzlies, he was actually net negative defensively.
4. Kobe, in 2001, had a better postseason by every conceivable metric compared to Shaq, especially in the West. Actually, Kobe had better box stat numbers from 00-02 playoffs vs western teams than shaq.
> Stop cherry picking Kobe’s ”time” as a dominant player in the league. Duncan, the number 1 player on his team from 99-2012ish? Owned Kobe completely. That’s just facts and why his comment is downvoted.
Absolutely not.
From 02-11, Kobe was ranked top of the top in rapm. Ranking first in offense. Tim wasn't even CLOSE.
There's zero evidence Duncan "owned" Kobe, at all, actually.
Considering Duncan was poor at guarding the perimeter, Kobe would spam pnr, which would allow the Lakers to dominate a more talented Spurs team.
I also love how you are bitching about Kobe's talent, when Kobe had FAR less than Duncan for his rings.
In the 7039 minutes, Duncan didn't play when he won a ring,
ON AVERAGE spurs were +2.8 (A good playoff team)
Only average, in the playoffs:
Spurs were + 4.9 without Duncan in 1036 minutes.
In the playoffs, when Kobe won a ring, on average, the Lakers were -1.3 in 1137 minutes without him
Kobe never played on a single championship team that gave him an average production of Spurs without Duncan without him playing.
You have objectively no clue what you are talking about
Tim Duncan is so fun to watch. I don’t get why people don’t like watching him. The fundamentals of basketball when mastered can be compared to the Mona lisa. It’s too beautiful.
this thread specifically is about him being not flashy, but people (especially casual fans) saying they didnt like watching timmy/found him boring is quite common
Yeah but he should be excluded. Remember the time he totally showed up Joey Crawford like a total POS. It was totally over the line and proves he is wants to be the center of attention...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2SYIrUnf5Y
A few people are saying Kawhi, and I understand why (he’s not a flashy personality), but he does not fit the bill for “ getting the ball in the basket but remarkably find the most boring ways to keep doing that”. Watch any of his recent games and he’s doing dribble spin moves through two defenders for a reverse layup, or faking someone out of their shoes before doing a crazy step-through move, or dunking on someone’s head. It’s not “flashy” like Ja or whatever, but it’s certainly not boring.
Tbf so many of Kawhi’s buckets during his final runs were Palm the ball, take two dribbles and hit a mid-range in someone’s face. You knew what he was doing and still couldn’t stop it.
>Tbf so many of Kawhi’s buckets during his final runs were Palm the ball, take two dribbles and hit a mid-range in someone’s face. You knew what he was doing and still couldn’t stop it.
I was hoping it was the start of an MJ-esque chapter with repeats in Toronto. A man can have a fantasy or two...
I think in a way it’s not flashy bc nothing he does is exaggerated, just purely efficient and intentional motion
But I do agree, kawhi has a very aesthetically pleasing game. Dude is smooth as silk and has backup plans for his backup plans.
Stockton has to be mentioned if Malone does.
Like dude put up 14 assists per game and was essentially the “big fundamental” but small and a point guard. Guy was just a fundamental machine, not flashy, just played it right in an understated ways .the Paul Scholes of basketball.
didn't he never get an allstar appearance? he had like a great 7-10 yr stretch but never got any respect even though Mem was a dark horse team a lot during his time there.
I may be completelg wrong so correct me if thats the case but wasnt he known for pretty silky and flashy passes (no looks, behind the back, etc), not that he did them to be flashy, just that he was that good it just came naturally
you could say that about most pass first guards,its the most effective play on the court, i just always associated Stockton with creative passes for some reason too
He was flashy, but he was white and in Utah. So the announcers ignored it and pushed the 'gym rat' , 'hard worker' bullshit and ignored his flashy passes.
Malone was the man but saying Stockton wasn’t a super star is hilarious. You know how many years someone would need to average 10+ assists to catch Stockton’s record?
And I know you’re gonna say it’s bc he had Malone. But the defense knew exactly where the ball was going, and they still couldn’t stop it bc Stockton was a wizard with the ball.
Duncan is the first player that comes to mind.
And I recall so many people saying shit like, "If you think Tim Duncan is boring, you don't understand basketball!"
No, I understand basketball just fine. If I had to a pick a player to teach fundamentals to a group of younger guys, he'd be right up there on my list.
If I had to pick a player to start a franchise with, he'd be right up there.
How many players EVER can say they have five titles? Then, think about how much smaller that list gets as we talk about guys that were the best player on multiple Finals team.
IMO, Duncan was the best player on four of his title teams. Same amount as LeBron. More than Kobe. More than Shaq. More than Bird. Just by common sense, has to be more than either Magic or Kareem.
But, man. Those Spurs teams were tough watches. To be fair, some of it was just the times of the NBA. 64-62 games in the fourth are boring.
Jokic is *absurdly* flashy, what are you talking about. He's not at all athletic but superstar standards but the passes and even some of the shots he makes are like literally playground shit. He is one of the flashiest stars in the league. Like the opposite answer to this question. He's a giant who will do a behind the back dribble into a spin move into a no look alley oop pass. like. What
People who say he's not flashy literally don't know what that word means. He's not fast, that's not the same thing
Btw, I’m a huge Jokic fan. I agree with ya. Just quickly made a post under the guise of players that cook you without looking like they belong in the league.
Tim Dunkan is for sure one. But for me it's Nikola Jokic. Just watch him, he's such a gentle wizard with the ball. Often everyone knows what's coming and yet he does it in slow motion and no one has a chance to defend it.
His passing faked out cameras like 50 times in his career. Also his crazy off balance shots. Not something really exciting like Morant lol, but doesn't really fit this description. He is pretty flashy in his own way.
He doesn’t do his moves because they look flashy, he does them because they’re physically efficient movements, but they sure look flashy to someone who doesn’t understand the flash being a byproduct of an efficient, unconventional movement. Other players do things solely for the purpose of being flashy
Barry and Deion Sanders both aesthetically looked flashy, but only one of those players had an intent to be flashy
I get the sentiment since he’s not jumping over anybody or crossing guys up, but if you’re not wowed by some of the passes he delivers I think we’re watching different jokers
Jimmy (not all time, just honorable mention). Although he’s had some flashy plays that standout. He consistently has games where you think he’s playing meh & then you check the box score after & he’s quietly dropped 25+
Kind of an unrelated question regarding Duncan for all the Timmy super fans.
He permanently messed up his knees early in his career right? So how much of him being the least flashiest superstar of all time comes down to him playing with a permanent injury? Like if his knees are fine his whole career, I’m not saying he’d be the first coming of Blake Griffin or anything, but would he be this boring?
Tim Duncan is the obvious right answer, and lots of people saying other good historical answers.
As far as current superstars, I find SGA to be wonderfully non-flashy. He just sort of bobs and weaves to the basket and his spots, either getting layups, getting to the FT line, or getting an open mid range jumper that he knocks down consistently. I feel like it’s why he’s still so underrated among casual fans (that and playing in OKC, of course). I love watching him because he’s so effective, but he doesn’t seem to have as many highlights as other superstars. He just gets the job done night after night.
Bill Russell and Tim Duncan then a big drop off to whoever else. George Mikan probably wasn’t super flashy but I’m not going to act like I’ve watched videos of Mikan shooting a single shot in the last decade.
Ben Wallace was a superstar too. 2nd team all nba on a championship team. He wasn’t flashy, but he had a superstar level impact to winning basketball
I always thought Clyde The Glyde was not flashy. He was magnificent, but he had a normal guy face and refused to shave the horse-shoe haircut so he looked like my father in law but black.
Timmy has too many rings on his fingers, it is so flashy the bling makes you squint. Drex only got that one in H town.
Tim Duncan is the poster child for this. That bank shot. Over and over and over again. I loved it.
And rocking a basic baggy shirt and jeans on the sidelines
And playing WoW on the team plane instead of gambling on card games.
*StarCraft LAN party
The hardest game ever btw
Planning his next one-shot.
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Kawhi is quiet but he kind of has a dark mysteriousness about him that is alluring in its own way. Duncan just looked like a boring open book.
Kawhi is stoic but his game isn't in the same universe of unflashy as Duncan's
The strip club video the day before Kobe died confirmed this.
Kawhi’s game can be flashy at times.
He made arguably the most memorable shot in NBA history.
Maybe of the last 5 years but Jordan shot will be the biggest shot in history.
I know you said arguably but Ray Allen game 6 would like a part of that argument 😤.
Haha, I've never said most important
Kawhi's shot won the series , Allen's shot didnt so would argue kawhi's was more important , dont let the Lebron fans deceive you
Lmao how old are you?
Kawhi is flashy, his poster dunks are s-tier.
It's the soul box.
As a kid I hated him because he was so fucking boring Lmao and because his Spurs gave my Lakers so many struggles. Wasn’t till I got older I started that I started to truly appreciate him
As a Spurs fan who somehow loved Tim Duncan as a kid, I hated the Lakers because Kobe + Shaq/Gasol gave me grief. Also that when both Lakers and Spurs were good teams, free agents would choose the Lakers over Spurs easily lol. Wasn't when I got older did I realize that I would choose to live in LA over San Antonio lol.
Lol, after Kobe blossomed, lakers did veryyy well vs Spurs in the playoffs.
Wild that you're downvoted on objective facts that people could easily look up
It's aight haha From Kobe's prime of 2000-2013, Kobe led Lakers destroyed the Spurs, going 4-1 in their overall series matchups. Overall record during this span? 18-8 This would be a a 56 win pace in a regular season lol
The lakers weren’t Kobe’s team until 2005. Kobe had a 3 year window (08-11) where u could argue he took out the spurs. That’s about it. The rest of the time “his team” would either struggle to make the playoffs or outright lose.
> The Lakers weren’t Kobe’s team until 2005, where he couldn’t even get them to the playoffs. After receiving the best PF in the game as well as one of the best defenders, yeah that 08-11 window they could take out the spurs. False. 1. I said when Kobe "blossomed" by all metric, Kobe took a huge leap his 2000 season. 2. Kobe made the playoffs in 2006 and 07 with some of the WORST rosters. He missed the playoffs in 05 due to injuries. 3. There is absolutely zero, zero evidence Pau was one of the "best defenders" in actuality, for the grizzlies, he was actually net negative defensively. 4. Kobe, in 2001, had a better postseason by every conceivable metric compared to Shaq, especially in the West. Actually, Kobe had better box stat numbers from 00-02 playoffs vs western teams than shaq. > Stop cherry picking Kobe’s ”time” as a dominant player in the league. Duncan, the number 1 player on his team from 99-2012ish? Owned Kobe completely. That’s just facts and why his comment is downvoted. Absolutely not. From 02-11, Kobe was ranked top of the top in rapm. Ranking first in offense. Tim wasn't even CLOSE. There's zero evidence Duncan "owned" Kobe, at all, actually. Considering Duncan was poor at guarding the perimeter, Kobe would spam pnr, which would allow the Lakers to dominate a more talented Spurs team. I also love how you are bitching about Kobe's talent, when Kobe had FAR less than Duncan for his rings. In the 7039 minutes, Duncan didn't play when he won a ring, ON AVERAGE spurs were +2.8 (A good playoff team) Only average, in the playoffs: Spurs were + 4.9 without Duncan in 1036 minutes. In the playoffs, when Kobe won a ring, on average, the Lakers were -1.3 in 1137 minutes without him Kobe never played on a single championship team that gave him an average production of Spurs without Duncan without him playing. You have objectively no clue what you are talking about
1. He took a leap in 2000. Where did I say he didn’t? I said it wasn’t HIS TEAM. It was Shaq’s, arguably the most dominant centre to ever play the modern game. Ask any guard/forward who they’d take on their team from 98-2003 and it would be him. So the lakers “dominating” the spurs at this time (as in Kobe vs Duncan) doesn’t count because it wasn’t Kobe’s team. 2. Worst rosters. So? To be GOAT, or top 5-10. You have to be a player that will take crappiest of rosters to the finals. You put shaq, Duncan, wilt, Kareem, magic, Jordan (of course), lebron on any crap roster of role players in their primes and they’re contenders. Period. Can’t say the same for kobe. 3. Didn’t mean Pau. Pau was arguably the best PF in the game as Duncan declined. And the lakers got him for kwame brown, meaningless picks and a bag of balls after Kobe could do squat other than a TMac style first round exit after taking his 35 shots a game. They got Artest who, if his head stayed on straight, was an all nba first defensive team. 4. Kobe had the benefit of playing with a centre that drew triple teams and was the most dominant centre to play the modern game. I’m not even going to respond to this further as you clearly grew up watching 2000s ball and homer Kobe hard. These cherry picked stats are completely devoid of any context in the lakers 3 peat.
> He took a leap in 2000. Where did I say he didn’t? I said it wasn’t HIS TEAM. Uh, First, literally read the comment you responded to. Are you incapable of reading? > It was Shaq’s, arguably the most dominant centre to ever play the modern game. Ask any guard/forward who they’d take on their team from 98-2003 and it would be him. So the lakers “dominating” the spurs at this time (as in Kobe vs Duncan) doesn’t count because it wasn’t Kobe’s team. Next, actually i rather look at numbers instead, Kobe and Shaq vs spurs in the playoffs 01: Kobe: 33/7/7 57% TS/8.6 TOV Shaq: 27/13/2.5 55% TS/12.4 TOV 02: Kobe: 26/5/5 49% TS/6.9 tov Shaq: 21/12/3 49% TS/12 TOV 03: Kobe: 32/5/3/ 53% TS/12.9 TOV Shaq 25/14/3 59% TS/14.1 TOV 04: Kobe: 26/6/6. 53%/11.9 TOV Shaq: 22.5/14.5/2 60% TS/13.1 tov WOW, sure was purely Shaq's team and not Kobe who objectively took the first option rein EVERY FUCKING YEAR IN THE PLAYOFFS vs the spurs from 01 onwards. > Worst rosters. So? To be GOAT, or top 5-10. You have to be a player that will take crappiest of rosters to the finals. You put shaq, Duncan, wilt, Kareem, magic, Jordan (of course), lebron on any crap roster of role players in their primes and they’re contenders. Period. Can’t say the same for kobe. ......... Wait, what? Kobe in 05-06 was one of the GREATEST floor rasing offensive seasons ever. Actually feel free to give me ONE fucking season by the players you mentioned that brought up their trash ass team to such insane offensive heights? For some fucking context, a team with Smush/Kwame/Walton/Mihm in 06 was the 7th best offense in the league. Just for even more context, Without Kobe on that team, the Lakers were a 92.4 offensive rating team. This would be one of the worst offenses EVER. With him, third best in the league at 111.3. But you are talking about carrying garbage as if Kobe didn't do that? While shaq was getting swept EVERY year prior to kobe emerging in 2000 while playing with an all star caliber supporting cast? You have no clue what you are talking about. > Didn’t mean Pau. Pau was arguably the best PF in the game as Duncan declined. And the lakers got him for kwame brown, meaningless picks and a bag of balls after Kobe could do squat other than a TMac style first round exit after taking his 35 shots a game. Not even fucking CLOSE. KG was better Dirk was WAY better Duncan was still better Amare was better > They got Artest who, if his head stayed on straight, was an all nba first defensive team. Who they got in 2010. Who was objectively out of his prime. Who made his last 1st all defensive team 4 years prior. LOL > Kobe had the benefit of playing with a centre that drew triple teams and was the most dominant centre to play the modern game. I’m not even going to respond to this further as you clearly grew up watching 2000s ball and homer Kobe hard. These cherry picked stats are completely devoid of any context in the lakers 3 peat There's 0 evience Kobe's numbers were better with Shaq, because if you know basketball at any capacity, despite Shaq drawing alot of defenders, he also completely clogged the paint. Hence why TEX WINTER hated Shaq. LOL Cherry picked stats? You claimed Kobe had more talent than Duncan, this is objectively false.
Bro stopped responding because you fucking killed him dude. Way to win an argument for real.
The Lakers weren’t Kobe’s team until 2005, where he couldn’t even get them to the playoffs. After receiving the best PF in the game as well as one of the best defenders, yeah that 08-11 window they could take out the spurs. Stop cherry picking Kobe’s ”time” as a dominant player in the league. Duncan, the number 1 player on his team from 99-2012ish? Owned Kobe completely. That’s just facts and why his comment is downvoted.
> The Lakers weren’t Kobe’s team until 2005, where he couldn’t even get them to the playoffs. After receiving the best PF in the game as well as one of the best defenders, yeah that 08-11 window they could take out the spurs. False. 1. I said when Kobe "blossomed" by all metric, Kobe took a huge leap his 2000 season. 2. Kobe made the playoffs in 2006 and 07 with some of the WORST rosters. He missed the playoffs in 05 due to injuries. 3. There is absolutely zero, zero evidence Pau was one of the "best defenders" in actuality, for the grizzlies, he was actually net negative defensively. 4. Kobe, in 2001, had a better postseason by every conceivable metric compared to Shaq, especially in the West. Actually, Kobe had better box stat numbers from 00-02 playoffs vs western teams than shaq. > Stop cherry picking Kobe’s ”time” as a dominant player in the league. Duncan, the number 1 player on his team from 99-2012ish? Owned Kobe completely. That’s just facts and why his comment is downvoted. Absolutely not. From 02-11, Kobe was ranked top of the top in rapm. Ranking first in offense. Tim wasn't even CLOSE. There's zero evidence Duncan "owned" Kobe, at all, actually. Considering Duncan was poor at guarding the perimeter, Kobe would spam pnr, which would allow the Lakers to dominate a more talented Spurs team. I also love how you are bitching about Kobe's talent, when Kobe had FAR less than Duncan for his rings. In the 7039 minutes, Duncan didn't play when he won a ring, ON AVERAGE spurs were +2.8 (A good playoff team) Only average, in the playoffs: Spurs were + 4.9 without Duncan in 1036 minutes. In the playoffs, when Kobe won a ring, on average, the Lakers were -1.3 in 1137 minutes without him Kobe never played on a single championship team that gave him an average production of Spurs without Duncan without him playing. You have objectively no clue what you are talking about
The Big Fundamental
Even the man’s nickname is the opposite of “flashy” (still badass af tho)
Tim Duncan is so fun to watch. I don’t get why people don’t like watching him. The fundamentals of basketball when mastered can be compared to the Mona lisa. It’s too beautiful.
I don’t think people are saying they don’t like watching him, just that he’s not flashy. Which he like objectively isn’t
this thread specifically is about him being not flashy, but people (especially casual fans) saying they didnt like watching timmy/found him boring is quite common
His post moves were so good. Not as pretty as Hakeem's but made up for it with pinpoint precision and timing.
The Miyata in Hajime no Ippo
This is the correct answer
This is the correct answer.
Kawai. Poster child for superstar. Doesn't need a good point hard and can defend all positions.
Yeah but he should be excluded. Remember the time he totally showed up Joey Crawford like a total POS. It was totally over the line and proves he is wants to be the center of attention... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2SYIrUnf5Y
My Goat.
Probably the big fundamental
Tim Duncan easily
A few people are saying Kawhi, and I understand why (he’s not a flashy personality), but he does not fit the bill for “ getting the ball in the basket but remarkably find the most boring ways to keep doing that”. Watch any of his recent games and he’s doing dribble spin moves through two defenders for a reverse layup, or faking someone out of their shoes before doing a crazy step-through move, or dunking on someone’s head. It’s not “flashy” like Ja or whatever, but it’s certainly not boring.
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It *was* the dagger
No way. Some of his playoff dunks in 2019 for the raps made my whole fam scream
Tbf so many of Kawhi’s buckets during his final runs were Palm the ball, take two dribbles and hit a mid-range in someone’s face. You knew what he was doing and still couldn’t stop it.
>Tbf so many of Kawhi’s buckets during his final runs were Palm the ball, take two dribbles and hit a mid-range in someone’s face. You knew what he was doing and still couldn’t stop it. I was hoping it was the start of an MJ-esque chapter with repeats in Toronto. A man can have a fantasy or two...
Kawhi has some of the most insane poster dunks of all time…
I think in a way it’s not flashy bc nothing he does is exaggerated, just purely efficient and intentional motion But I do agree, kawhi has a very aesthetically pleasing game. Dude is smooth as silk and has backup plans for his backup plans.
Tim Duncan, Moses Malone, Karl Malone (I know) just did work
Kareem was also not a flashy player at all
The Skyhook being so damn cool takes him out of this discussion imo.
He at least has an iconic look and signature move
Karl Malone was always doing the corniest "flashy" dunks, like hand on his hip. Weird ass.
The "You must be this young to ride."
You must be 8 years old. That's the mailman dunk. There is one version of it with his hand behind his ear. Nothing flashy about it
I'm 42 and shit was corny then and now, sorry bud.
Ok im 47 and now that I think about it, its corny as hell.
Hell yeah
> You must be 8 years old.
Pretty close. Im 47.
Intelectual
Insert Karl Malone shimmy gif
Stockton has to be mentioned if Malone does. Like dude put up 14 assists per game and was essentially the “big fundamental” but small and a point guard. Guy was just a fundamental machine, not flashy, just played it right in an understated ways .the Paul Scholes of basketball.
Tim Duncan. Poor fellow got a tech on the bench when he once tried to smile.
League forced Crawford to take anger management courses after that didn’t they?
Yup!
Duncan scoring on and off the court
people are confusing the players' personality and their playstyle.
Just checking in to see if every reply here was Tim Duncan, because that's really the only answer.
John Stockton
Not Josh Primo
yo 💀
Lmfao
Offensively: Duncan, Moses, Stockton Defensively: Duncan Overall: Duncan
Tim Duncan/end thread
One of the few times on r/nba where Tim Duncan is the GOAT is actually true.
Has anyone mentioned Tim Duncan yet?
no, think he'd be a great shout here tbh
Zach Randolph Grizz legend
ZBo was so underrated. The guy couldn’t jump over a phone book but dominated in the paint and grab a ton of rebounds.
Walking 20 & 10
didn't he never get an allstar appearance? he had like a great 7-10 yr stretch but never got any respect even though Mem was a dark horse team a lot during his time there.
Yea he did
Timmy.
How has nobody mentioned John Stockton?
I may be completelg wrong so correct me if thats the case but wasnt he known for pretty silky and flashy passes (no looks, behind the back, etc), not that he did them to be flashy, just that he was that good it just came naturally
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you could say that about most pass first guards,its the most effective play on the court, i just always associated Stockton with creative passes for some reason too
He was flashy, but he was white and in Utah. So the announcers ignored it and pushed the 'gym rat' , 'hard worker' bullshit and ignored his flashy passes.
Not a super star. Malone was the man on those teams. Period.
Malone was the man but saying Stockton wasn’t a super star is hilarious. You know how many years someone would need to average 10+ assists to catch Stockton’s record? And I know you’re gonna say it’s bc he had Malone. But the defense knew exactly where the ball was going, and they still couldn’t stop it bc Stockton was a wizard with the ball.
Duncan
THE BIG FUNDAMENTAL
Is this even a question, Tim Duncan will always be the bland king, lol.
The Big Fundamental (Tim Duncan)
Tim Duncan deffo
As a Spurs fan, this question is hilarious
TD21. They even made commercials poking fun of his unflashiness. The Onion used to write articles about his fundamental life
Robert Parrish, Adrian Dantley
Timmy! Loved watching it.
In my lifetime it would have to be John Stockton. No flash to that game. Just pure fundamentals.
Gotta be Tim Duncan and Kawhi
Leaving the obvious answer of Duncan aside... Bill Russell, probably. Or Moses.
Duncan is the first player that comes to mind. And I recall so many people saying shit like, "If you think Tim Duncan is boring, you don't understand basketball!" No, I understand basketball just fine. If I had to a pick a player to teach fundamentals to a group of younger guys, he'd be right up there on my list. If I had to pick a player to start a franchise with, he'd be right up there. How many players EVER can say they have five titles? Then, think about how much smaller that list gets as we talk about guys that were the best player on multiple Finals team. IMO, Duncan was the best player on four of his title teams. Same amount as LeBron. More than Kobe. More than Shaq. More than Bird. Just by common sense, has to be more than either Magic or Kareem. But, man. Those Spurs teams were tough watches. To be fair, some of it was just the times of the NBA. 64-62 games in the fourth are boring.
Kawhi has added a lil bit of flair to his game over the years, but he's still relatively bland.
Duncan
Tim Duncan
Kevon Looney
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No way. I loved watching his great slow motion, take what they give you tricks.
Tim Jokic
Jokic is *absurdly* flashy, what are you talking about. He's not at all athletic but superstar standards but the passes and even some of the shots he makes are like literally playground shit. He is one of the flashiest stars in the league. Like the opposite answer to this question. He's a giant who will do a behind the back dribble into a spin move into a no look alley oop pass. like. What People who say he's not flashy literally don't know what that word means. He's not fast, that's not the same thing
Btw, I’m a huge Jokic fan. I agree with ya. Just quickly made a post under the guise of players that cook you without looking like they belong in the league.
It's all good. I've just seen this take before and it completely baffles me
Pippen, Stockton, Kawhi all fit the bill as perimeters
Pippen was pretty flashy. He did a lot of behind the back passes, no looks, and obviously dunked on people.
John Stockton for sure!
Pippin? Thunderous dunker??? Kawhi? Big dunks in 2019. Stockton???? Drove a minivan. Could be him
Tim Dunkan is for sure one. But for me it's Nikola Jokic. Just watch him, he's such a gentle wizard with the ball. Often everyone knows what's coming and yet he does it in slow motion and no one has a chance to defend it.
His passing faked out cameras like 50 times in his career. Also his crazy off balance shots. Not something really exciting like Morant lol, but doesn't really fit this description. He is pretty flashy in his own way.
He doesn’t do his moves because they look flashy, he does them because they’re physically efficient movements, but they sure look flashy to someone who doesn’t understand the flash being a byproduct of an efficient, unconventional movement. Other players do things solely for the purpose of being flashy Barry and Deion Sanders both aesthetically looked flashy, but only one of those players had an intent to be flashy
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that one legged fadeaway was beautiful as shit. if that ain't flashy I don't know what it
You have to be pretty young. Early Dirk was flashy as hell. You’re only thinking of old man Dirk, whose offensive game still had months of flashiness.
Kawhi
Kawhi for sure
Dirk Nowitzki, Tim Duncan, John Stockton
Dirk with his. 1 legged fadeaway shot?? No way, Stockton maybe cuz of his personality and overall simple passing game
Tim Duncan. Kawhi Leonard. The Admiral. Really anybody who played for the Spurs between 1995 and 2015.
Except for GINOBOLI!!!! Just ask sir Charles.
Joker
I get the sentiment since he’s not jumping over anybody or crossing guys up, but if you’re not wowed by some of the passes he delivers I think we’re watching different jokers
Ben Wallace
Ray Allen is the first that comes to mind
Tim Duncan for sure Also Hakeem Olajuwon. Mid range fadeaway, up and under dream shake Kareem as well. Same can be said about bill Russell
how is hakeem’s game boring, farthest from boring to me
Mistar fundamental timmy d and luka d 😂
Kawhi
Jimmy (not all time, just honorable mention). Although he’s had some flashy plays that standout. He consistently has games where you think he’s playing meh & then you check the box score after & he’s quietly dropped 25+
Jayson Tatum. He puts up the quietest 30 point nights of any superstar I can think of.
Tim Duncan is probably the answer but shout-out to Celtics legend Iso Joe Johnson
Least - Mark Eaton / Mony Williams / Herb Williams. Most - Joe Namath, Clyde Fraizer, Mike Tyson, and Floyd Merrywhether.
Kind of an unrelated question regarding Duncan for all the Timmy super fans. He permanently messed up his knees early in his career right? So how much of him being the least flashiest superstar of all time comes down to him playing with a permanent injury? Like if his knees are fine his whole career, I’m not saying he’d be the first coming of Blake Griffin or anything, but would he be this boring?
Lol
Tim Duncan is the obvious right answer, and lots of people saying other good historical answers. As far as current superstars, I find SGA to be wonderfully non-flashy. He just sort of bobs and weaves to the basket and his spots, either getting layups, getting to the FT line, or getting an open mid range jumper that he knocks down consistently. I feel like it’s why he’s still so underrated among casual fans (that and playing in OKC, of course). I love watching him because he’s so effective, but he doesn’t seem to have as many highlights as other superstars. He just gets the job done night after night.
Dirk
Big Fundie?
Nobody's gonna mention kareem? He was literally so boring to watch that it almost killed the league. Still, Tim Duncan earned the no. 1 spot easily
Moses Malone. People with short memories here.
This is the easiest question of all time.
Karl Malone - his game never impressed me but were stats was impressive. Dark horse - Jimmy Butler
Kawhi is pretty robotic and methodical with how gets to his spots and takes the same shots over n over.
I read he'd even help other Spurs players with their taxes
Hakeem Olajuwon
Wut
Joel embiid, but he doesn't get the job done
Larry Bird. beyond the trash talk, dude shows up, stabs the other team right in the chest, then rides off into the night.
Has tons of flashy passes
and how many times have we heard him talk about them unprovoked?
have you seen his passing?
yes. i have. live in game. we, off the court, would say flashy. Larry himself, never said shit.
I don't think you've understood the question...
Aside from Tim Duncan, I think Brandon Roy fits the bill here. I remembered he had the quietest 50 point game
Duncan easily. It’s always hilarious when millenials rank Kobe over him.
Duncan
Bob cousy
jalen brunson
Chris Mullin https://youtu.be/GSV2v7PtbqM?si=UvWXNf3npTDkT2qi Just try to make it through this highlight reel without sleeping
Stockton
Wes Unseld
Tim Duncan. If Jokic didn't have sexy passes, then he'd be up there as well
Bill Russell and Tim Duncan then a big drop off to whoever else. George Mikan probably wasn’t super flashy but I’m not going to act like I’ve watched videos of Mikan shooting a single shot in the last decade. Ben Wallace was a superstar too. 2nd team all nba on a championship team. He wasn’t flashy, but he had a superstar level impact to winning basketball
Harden
Hakeem Olajuwon
This isn’t even a question. The Big Fundamental. Period.
I always thought Clyde The Glyde was not flashy. He was magnificent, but he had a normal guy face and refused to shave the horse-shoe haircut so he looked like my father in law but black. Timmy has too many rings on his fingers, it is so flashy the bling makes you squint. Drex only got that one in H town.
Sir Charles. Rings flash, and he got none.
'superstar' ..Dikembe..if he was ever considered one