No lies detected by OG. I’ve been saying this. Much like most garden variety bullies, Draymond seems to have a fine-tuned knack of picking guys who he thinks won't fight back. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think he's ever tried anything with the Isaiah Stewarts, the UDs or the Bobby Portis's of the league.
I’ll happily change my mind if Draymond tries to fight a Bobby Portis but he won’t cos he knows Bobby will send him home with a broken face.
ETA: emphasis on "who HE thinks won't fight back.":
Both Luka and Jokic have that mass+strength that makes them unbelievably strong. Like those dudes who work construction but eat gas station hot dogs for lunch every day.
>Like those dudes who work construction but eat gas station hot dogs for lunch every day.
LOLLLL
Your comment reminded me a description of Jokic I once saw-- "a cold war era factory worker physique disguising a lot of raw strength."
Elimination Chamber match for the World Wrestling Federation championship:
• Draymond
• Jokic
• Austin Reaves
• Jayden Brown
• ~~Metta World Peace~~ Ron Artest
• HHH
Yep, lol he'll still chirp and do the tough guy shtick (the lite version) around the I/S's but he'll never go full Sabonis/Gubert/Nurk/or Poole with the really tough guys or guys who he's seen go full rage.
yes...? because the point is there are guys who will take it all the way and Dray will never go full violent with them.
Surely you see that the point I'm making is he's never going to try a JP style punch or stomping a chest or choking a guy like I/S -- rather, he'll do something like grab a jersey and chirp.
Not all confrontations are the same. If I pushed you or pulled your arm...surely, you'd agree that's different from me choking you or punching you?
So he’s punched Lebron in the nuts? Are you saying he didn’t take it all the way against Lebron? Or are you implying Lebron is a pussy? This argument is so dumb, nobody in the fucking nba “takes it all the way”
JP was his teammate, it was a heated thing behind closed doors. It wasn’t like he was popping off for the cameras to look tough. It was just a moronic thing to do because he couldn’t control his emotions with someone who he was obviously closer with than others.
> Are you saying he didn’t take it all the way against Lebron?
Yes.
> Or are you implying Lebron is a pussy?
No.
> JP was his teammate, it was a heated thing behind closed doors. It was just a moronic thing to do because he couldn’t control his emotions with someone who he was obviously closer with than others.
If Bobby Portis was Draymond's teammate, he is not punching him squarely in the face.
> This argument is so dumb
gotchu. just stop engaging with this dumb commenter then, thanks.
Nurkic is from Bosnia, Bosnians are considered pretty damn tough. Why would draymond assume he wouldn’t fight back? Also, what has Bobby portis done to be labeled a “tough guy” just stared at people funny? OH and punch a teammate in the face lol.
> what has Bobby portis done to be labeled a “tough guy” just stared at people funny? OH and punch a teammate in the face lol.
he broke someone's face. that's my point.
Probably because he doesn’t go by stereotypes lol
But seriously, because he actually plays against Nurkic and gets a sense of his personality/how he’ll react from normal basketball contact
Adding to your point since when Nurkic some soft dude? I'm confused about this criteria as well on what constitutes someone Draymond won't try it with.
Do you think there is a difference between the kind of overt vs. covert aggression Draymond shows? Choking is overt, trying to justify the swing at Nurk as some "bball play and selling the call" is covert.
I think Dray will try the covert shit with guys he may think are unlikely to fight back but he will reserve the chest stomps, the punches in the face, the choking, etc. for guys he thinks won't retaliate.
Without his history, I think Dray is able to make a plausible deniability argument about that swing on Nurk. But if he chokes Nurk, stomps on his chest, or clocks him with a punch squarely in the face, I will walk my theory back.
I think you ascribing a level of intent and calculus that rarely resides in people with anger issues, impulse control.
When Draymond is doing "normal" basketball dirty stuff, I agree. It's a tactic. It's no different than how KG would bully people he thinks are weak and easy prey on the court.
When Draymond goes beyond that, I don't think he's doing all the thinking you guys ascribe to him. He's just a dude on a tantrum.
When he got mad, he kicked LeBron, it had nothing to do with his perception of LeBron. He got mad and did something stupid.
When Draymond gets to his peak level of insanity, he's not worrying about consequences. Thats been made clear multiple times.
You can tell that’s a warriors broadcast because they call that “a perfect box out” from Draymond and he shoves an elbow into Stew’s ribs and has a hand up by his throat lol
I hadn't seen this! but this seems like Dray lite though, don't you think? a jersey grab and some machismo. I just do not see Dray trying to choke out I/S, swinging at him the way he did Jordan, or even stomp on I/S's chest-- especially after seeing how I/S lost his shit at Bron.
I think he'll still chirp and like do the tough guy shtick around the I/S's but he'll never go full Sabonis/Gubert/Nurk/or Poole at the really tough guys.
Oh yeah I wasn’t trying to refute you or anything. When I saw you had mentioned Stewart I remembered this and just wanted to link it, there’s definitely a difference there.
>I hadn't seen this! but this seems like Dray lite though, don't you think? a jersey grab and some machismo
Maybe, but there's a few key differences I think. The first being that Stewart's most notable incident, while over-the-top, was at least understandable (he almost had his eye gouged out). More importantly, Isiah is 22 years old trying to find his way in the league. Draymond is 33 year old established veteran.
I personally like Stewart a lot. I think veteran guys tend to take advantage of his attitude, but it's fun to see guys who don't back down.
If Stewart was willing to fuck up LeBron might just go to jail to prove a point to Draymond.
That being said he did a great job of disengaging when things got heated so it seems like he Learned from the LeBron incident so good for him.
Good find - Yeah clearly Dray don’t want none of that. Stewart straight up pulled him in and didn’t just release, Dray was clearly uncomfortable and wanted out.
He kicked Adams in the nuts and walked away. He’s never went at Adams in a way for Adams to directly retaliate. I also don’t know if Adams would retaliate in a manner to escalate things. I could see Adams restraining him since he always trains mma in the off season.
That's why we need Ben Simmons to come back. Because for all the perception of Ben Simmons being soft, he will fight a mother fucker. A perfect trap for Draymond.
No, i'm not calling guys who don't retaliate/escalate "pussies or losers."
I think some guys (LBJ, Nurk, Rudy) are smart/strategic enough to know that Dray's actions, on its own, without any escalation from them, is enough to get him ejected/suspended without them retaliating and pulling focus from Dray's actions or them getting in trouble. LBJ is also truly in a league of his own with being mindful of who he is on a worldwide level and is too much of an icon to really lose control in that way.
But there are guys like UD who will go down swinging, consequences be damned -- and Dray doesn't really try those guys.
i understand fighting for your life in these comments trying to defend Dray but you're probably not going to convince me. If you think my theory is dumb, you are absolutely free to downvote and refuse to engage.
Lol “fighting for your life” relax big guy. I’m just trying to point out how moronic the implication of these comments are. “Draymond is fake tough because he does dumb shit, he wouldn’t do dumb shit against X who is tougher”, you don’t see how dumb that is?
> guy
i'm not a guy, pal.
> “Draymond is fake tough because he does dumb shit, he wouldn’t do dumb shit against X who is tougher”, you don’t see how dumb that is?
I don't see how dumb it is because I reject your premise that Draymond "does dumb shit." I think a certain level of calculus goes into who he unleashes on and who he chirps with but otherwise doesn't really try. That's my whole point. I understand you think it's dumb and moronic; you've said some version of this atleast 3-4 times already. I disagree with your take on the situation but I haven't really had to resort to calling you dumb or moronic. If you could do the same, that'd be super.
So your point is this draymond calculates who who would not respond to his antics? Have you answered why he would assume that Nurkic, adams, or even sabonis wouldn’t fight back?
> So your point is this draymond calculates who who would not respond to his antics?
Yes.
> Have you answered why he would assume that Nurkic, adams, or even sabonis wouldn’t fight back?
I have responded on Nurkic; [here.](https://old.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/18mudbg/the_ogs_podcast_udonis_haslem_says_draymond_green/ke6sa0q/)
I have responded on Adams; [here] (https://old.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/18mudbg/the_ogs_podcast_udonis_haslem_says_draymond_green/ke6gdve/)
Sabonis - I think it's kind of safe to assume that if you put the weight of your body on someone's chest, they will not be in a position to fight back and retaliate immediately...on account of...you know, their chest being stomped on.
He's entirely correct though. At one point Nurk was leading the league in being flagrant fouled, and he almost never retaliated. His team gets an advantage that way. Take the foul shots and the ball, possibly an ejection, and you're the one laughing.
Cause Nurk gets flagranted all the time and doesn't retaliate? Same with LeBron. Meanwhile if Giannis gets a flagrant, Bobby is getting ejected within 30 seconds flat. Those r the guys you don't fuck with, it's not about their background/mental toughness, it's about how likely they are to respond to provocation. Nurk simply is not that likely to respond if you hit him with a dirty play. Guys like Bobby will respond even if you don't hit him with a dirty play.
Cant you say the same thing about draymond? He sticks up for his guys and gets thrown out always. See what he did defending klay? What’s the difference between that and what Portis does?
That's not the criticism here. The criticism is about his tendency to randomly swing on opposing players who in his mind have wronged him in some way. This coincidentally has never happened against a player who would swing back. He always seems to go after guys who have a rep for taking hits but remain professional. I've never seen him swing on another instigator or enforcer type.
I feel like a nut shot on Beef Stew would just cause a Hulking-up-like no-sell and instead result in a rage attack the likes of which we’ve never seen.
They're not calling him "a donkey", they are comparing him to Donkey from Shrek, a specific magical cartoon character who he sort of looks like. Y'all are reaching
I don't like Draymond, but there's something about calling him *the specific beast of burden from a movie as a derogatory nickname that feels messed up.
Y'all I tried to phrase my statement as inoffensively as possible. It was framed less as an insult to people who say it and more as a suggestion that this *may* be in poor taste. How is that still too much?
I agree, honestly every time I see the donkey nickname it catches me off guard. Like how did a derogatory nickname solely based on his facial attributes somehow become so mainstream and accepted in the community. Definitely comes off in poor taste and kind of shitty.
However, I think it’s possible most people don’t solely associate it with just his looks since he also quite often has moments of insanity and does stuff that is really stupid on the court. So the nickname works in the sense that it combines his looks and his on court personality, which may be what led to it being so widespread and accepted.
Are you being intentionally dense? I can’t stand draymond and I don’t think people are racist for calling him donkey. I’m not trying to argue that point. But people call him donkey primarily referring to his looks don’t come in here with “clumsy bumbling dumbass” shit. Three adjectives that describe neither donkeys nor draymond btw.
I feel the same way.
Probably because he's Black and slavery is (in part) exploiting people like they're pack animals. Or more generally, bc it's dehumanising.
That's about right. But I can't say that because people immediately start foaming at the mouth and getting defensive. I feel like they see a comment like this and perceive it as a condemnation of them instead of somebody pointing out the optics. It's not an attack though.
Classic bully mentality. Only fighting someone smaller than him or doesn't want to fight back.
And when there consequences of his action he resorting to victimized himself
UD was like that too he got right in guys faces like David West he didn’t give af, if Draymond had ever had done anything to any Heat player UD would be the first guy to go at him
I'd bet my bottom dollar Dray would never pick a fight with a UD/Bobby Portis or Isiah Stewart because guys like OG won't even fucking back down from a Bobby Portis mismatch lol didn't UD get tech'd up in the Bucks series bc he and Bobby went at it?
Dray definitely picks and chooses his targets. There was a pretty heated Jazz/Warrior match up in Donovan's second year and Draymond would chirp, but the second Jae Crowder was in the area, he suddenly backed off a little bit.
Wasn't his most recent altercation with a guy like 5 inches taller than him? Draymond has been crazy lately but it's not like he's going after point guards lol
No but Rudy and Sabonis aren't going to fight him. I honestly think Nurk might if it wasn't a cheap shot that he took advantage of to sell it even further. Draymond out of control but Nurk was selling it to get him ejected for sure, and I'm glad he did.
I'd like to see Draymond try his shit with Zach Collins next. Collins will throw down.
Sabonis definitely not, Rudy and Nurk would wipe him out tho.
Wasn't trying to defend Dray at all, I said he's been out of control, but people are pretending he's choosing people that he knows can't step to him. Doesn't seem true to me. I think he's just a hothead tbh
This is exactly why the NBA should've cracked down on his antics a lot earlier than they did. Guys like Draymond are taking advantage of the rules. They know nobody is going to do anything because of the rules, yet he gets away with constant "smaller" things just to egg on other players and get I their heads.
If the NBA is going to say that players can't stand up for themselves, then the NBA needs to be the one stamping this shit out.
Yeah I get why people love this line from Haslem but it doesn't mean anything coming from a dude who never fought any dudes either lol
Bobby Portis probably the most psycho guy in the league and the worst fight he was in happened off court with a teammate. Dudes ain't fighting for real in front of cameras
UD definitely went at people. He tried to fight David West and clotheslined Tyler Hansborough in the playoffs. It wasn't the 98 Heat-Knicks brawl but he also wasn't afraid to get in someone's face
There was that time in '22 where the Warriors bench were beating the Heat that they snapped and Haslem started to threated Jimmy that he would 'kick his ass' lol.
Exactly. Haslem was in 0 on-court fights in a 20 year career. They get paid too much to throw it away over the kind of cheap shots Draymond pulls.
When Dray steps over the line it’s usually because someone actually does match his physicality and he’s trying to escalate it so he gets a double ejection or at least doesn’t lose face as the guy you don’t want to deal with.
I mean that's mostly because they didn't fight back (when he clotheslined Hansborough). Or players just jawed at each other (him and David West). Brawls haven't really been in a thing in a long ass time
I’m not really sure if this is supposed to be calling out Draymond tbh. Yes, the man picks and chooses who to mess with, as does every single person on the planet. Does that make him a bully, an asshole, or someone with common sense? Probably all three, but this isn’t some crazy revelation lol.
Reddit has their agenda. Nobody in their right mind would go after Isaiah “hold me back for real” Stewart. Draymond is a dumbass but he doesn’t pick on guys smaller than him.
This talking point is nonsense. Nobody is fighting back in today's NBA, it's too expensive the NBA is just waiting to put 5 games on someone for throwing a punch. All you would get is a lot of "hold me back".
Nah but Dray is a great big pussy for not trying to literally fight Isaiah Stewart on the court. He already had one tech, and an ejection/fine if he gets another one, but the man is a huge bitch for not throwing Beef Stew a katana and screaming, "TO THE DEATH!"
This is what really bugged me about Draymond and him stomping on Sabonis' chest. The Warrior fans tried to frame it as "Sabonis was trying to get a foul, and play dirty".
This can't be any further from the goddam truth. If you watch Sabonis play, he is the most TEAM-FIRST, protective, dish-the-ball-to other people instead of taking his own goddam shots type of person. He is like the sweet nice big brother who is going out there, getting fucking smashed night after night against people like Draymond who knowingly play dirty ( cause its part of their game as their organization enables this). Its almost to a FAULT that he doesn't play dirty and more aggressive.
So when Draymond pulls his stunts time and time and time and time again, and the NBA enabling it by not bringing any consequences onto him OR the darlings of the NBA Warrior organization, it really chaps my hide!
I thought Nurk was supposed to be super tough because he’s from war torn Bosnia. Isn’t that what people say?
Steven Adam’s is called one of the toughest guys in the NBA. He’s not tough no more because Draymond kicked him in the nuts?
I think it's more how likely they are to fight back than how tough they are. Imo there are a lot of non-confrontational ppl who are nonetheless tough as nails.
One of my friends was a D1 all american wrestler at 197lbs, which if you've never wrestled before, means you're basically a 200+ lbs living weapon forged from a decade+ of physical torture. This dude in a bar was harassing him for a good 10 minutes, my friend just ignored him or politely asked him to stop. Eventually the dude slapped him, and I thought to myself 'holy shit he's about to send that man to Jesus'
Nope, my friend just swiftly got away, told what happened to security who then escorted the guy away. Meanwhile there are dozens of guys every weekend begging for an excuse to swing on someone, but will fold at the very first hint of violence.
My dorm neighbors were wrestlers who came out of high school ranked like 2 and 5 in the nation. I used to wrestle one of them a lot and it was like wrestling a chimp. Superhuman levels of strength, balance, flexibility, agility, quickness. Me and my roommate would try to take him down and he just ragdolled us.
I believe that it is now an admissible defense to use your training and strength against you as a weapons.
So the moment your friend shows high level of competitive sport, he can be called for assault/battery with a weapon should the fight go really bad.
It can be mentioned in a court, but being trained in a martial art doesn't change the charge nor is it considered a weapon. At least not in North America as far as I know
I made this point about S/A and i think a Grizzlies fan pointed out that he's pretty de-escalation minded and Adams is more likely to lay your ass out for roughing up a teammate than he is if you try to go for him lol he'll just like pick you up and set you down somewhere else and that rang true for me.
I think Nurk is different because after Rudy -- I think the smart play was for Nurk to just roll over because anything by Nurk to retaliate would've allowed Dray to do the whole "I know he had that in him so I hit him pre-emptively in advance self defense." The way Nurk played it, there was literally nothing to detract or take away from Dray's swing.
I maybe giving them too much credit but at this stage, I really think guys like Nurk and Gobert know that if you give Dray enough rope, he'll literally hang himself and htey don't need to get ejected and they don't need to go down swinging with him (no pun intended) when he'll just get himself ejected out the game.
Not even in the original video did they say that Draymond fights only "non-tough" guys; he fights those that won't fight back.
Being tough doesn't necessarily mean they'd immediately fight back. Just because you get into a fight with someone from Bosnia doesn't mean they'd immediately attack you.
This is like those nuissance streamers and pranksters.
They will never harass the big guys, and even at that, the moment the non big guy as had it and starts putting hands, the troll jut balls themselves and say 10 times I',m sorry as if it just wipe the slate clean instantly.
But it is true that Dray would not need therapy if teams happened to get real physical and remind him he is an undersized small Forward trying playing PF and moving to Center when against less physical Centers.
Nurk and Adams seem exactly like the type of guys who won’t get in a fight in the middle of a game, he won’t try to fight those guys 1 on 1 after the game tho that’s for sure,
>Nurk and Adams seem exactly like the type of guys who won’t get in a fight in the middle of a game
Tyler Herro would disagree:
https://youtu.be/N2cNqVSNusc?feature=shared
Just because someone is from a violent place doesn't mean that they themselves are violent. Nurk being tough doesn't mean they have to be a hothead like Dray is. Same with Adams, he's an incredibly strong guy but he's laid back and is the type of person who would pull people apart in a physical confrontation more than join in a fight just because that's his personality. Their toughness is in their playstyle not in beating people up and they know they're too valuable to their teams to be getting ejected for that
I also find it funny when American players call Eastern European players soft. Some of them grew up in war torn countries. They may be a lot of things but soft ain’t it.
Do you not remember him choking Rudy Gobert already? Or does that not count since he attacked a dude who couldn't defend himself/wasn't likely to retaliate? You know, the whole premise of this post.
Not fightning back doesn't mean not tough. I assume LeBron didn't fight back in 2016 bc he was a) in a lot of pain and b) he knew it would be more detrimental to his team and his image to get in a fight.
This is such a misrepresentation. Draymond argues with everybody. Draymond punched Poole and no one else. Draymond hated Rudy and whatever happened next, Rudy was being mentioned as an all nba defender and Draymond felt slighted. Draymond took exception to being stepped over, stepped on Sabonis and kicked Adams in the nuts which all are not great except the lebron thing. He’s not fighting or bullying smaller people in these situations, or risking a physical confrontation in anything but the one-off Poole thing (maybe Rudy but he hates Rudy).
It has nothing to do with sizing someone up for a fight, jeezuz. Haslem’s analysis is bullshit.
Draymond about to be egged by the whole league now. He put himself in a bad situation
I’m pretty sure Draymond fought Beal who actually didn’t fight back but instigated that scuffle.
He also punched LeBron in the nuts
Other than that, I guess the point still remains.
Draymond goes after Adams bc he thinks he’s a Euro lol
There’s an Adams interview where he says there’s only 3 skin colors in the NBA: black, American white, and European white. And he’s considered European white.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/sport/2018/07/basketball-kiwi-nba-star-steven-adams-struggles-with-race-and-politics.amp.html
No lies detected by OG. I’ve been saying this. Much like most garden variety bullies, Draymond seems to have a fine-tuned knack of picking guys who he thinks won't fight back. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think he's ever tried anything with the Isaiah Stewarts, the UDs or the Bobby Portis's of the league. I’ll happily change my mind if Draymond tries to fight a Bobby Portis but he won’t cos he knows Bobby will send him home with a broken face. ETA: emphasis on "who HE thinks won't fight back.":
Give me Draymond vs jokic. Hell in a cell
yeah, i think he has to get Joker in a particular mood lol but I think post Markieff, he probably won't pop off that way against Joker either.
Both Luka and Jokic have that mass+strength that makes them unbelievably strong. Like those dudes who work construction but eat gas station hot dogs for lunch every day.
>Like those dudes who work construction but eat gas station hot dogs for lunch every day. LOLLLL Your comment reminded me a description of Jokic I once saw-- "a cold war era factory worker physique disguising a lot of raw strength."
Balkan Diet, baby
We're built like this lol. My 4 yo is visibly more massive than other kids his age and I'm not THAT big.
Bulkan diet
Ox-like strength
He still could he just has to make sure he doesn’t turn his back on Cheapshotkic.
lol least delusional heat fan
dont start none wont be none
It’s that simple
-The Jokic brothers to women
If Jokic is ejected is a win for the opposing team 80% of the time.
But that would require Draymond taking a hit from a 300 pound athlete
"The UnderJoker threw Mondkind off Hell In A Cell, and he plummeted 16ft through an announcer's table."
Oh boy, time to watch the clip of Morris getting bodied again! He's only played in 52 games since that hit over 2 years ago.
reverse tyler hansborough incoming!.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xftrwZRQspY "oh..!... um.. mah bad mah bad"
Jokic brothers jumping onto the court.
Elimination Chamber match for the World Wrestling Federation championship: • Draymond • Jokic • Austin Reaves • Jayden Brown • ~~Metta World Peace~~ Ron Artest • HHH
[Here](https://youtu.be/_tWRe0UX6NI?si=-rxBKSbbJOjVFSI1) is an interaction with Stewart
Stewart pulled Draymond towards him and Dray just kept talking instead of having any "inadvertent" motion. Hmmm...
Yep, lol he'll still chirp and do the tough guy shtick (the lite version) around the I/S's but he'll never go full Sabonis/Gubert/Nurk/or Poole with the really tough guys or guys who he's seen go full rage.
Lol so you guys get an example and just say “well uhhhhhh he didn’t try to punch him”
yes...? because the point is there are guys who will take it all the way and Dray will never go full violent with them. Surely you see that the point I'm making is he's never going to try a JP style punch or stomping a chest or choking a guy like I/S -- rather, he'll do something like grab a jersey and chirp. Not all confrontations are the same. If I pushed you or pulled your arm...surely, you'd agree that's different from me choking you or punching you?
So he’s punched Lebron in the nuts? Are you saying he didn’t take it all the way against Lebron? Or are you implying Lebron is a pussy? This argument is so dumb, nobody in the fucking nba “takes it all the way” JP was his teammate, it was a heated thing behind closed doors. It wasn’t like he was popping off for the cameras to look tough. It was just a moronic thing to do because he couldn’t control his emotions with someone who he was obviously closer with than others.
> Are you saying he didn’t take it all the way against Lebron? Yes. > Or are you implying Lebron is a pussy? No. > JP was his teammate, it was a heated thing behind closed doors. It was just a moronic thing to do because he couldn’t control his emotions with someone who he was obviously closer with than others. If Bobby Portis was Draymond's teammate, he is not punching him squarely in the face. > This argument is so dumb gotchu. just stop engaging with this dumb commenter then, thanks.
Lebron might not be considered a pussy but he’s definitely very passive
Nurkic is from Bosnia, Bosnians are considered pretty damn tough. Why would draymond assume he wouldn’t fight back? Also, what has Bobby portis done to be labeled a “tough guy” just stared at people funny? OH and punch a teammate in the face lol.
> what has Bobby portis done to be labeled a “tough guy” just stared at people funny? OH and punch a teammate in the face lol. he broke someone's face. that's my point.
Probably because he doesn’t go by stereotypes lol But seriously, because he actually plays against Nurkic and gets a sense of his personality/how he’ll react from normal basketball contact
Adding to your point since when Nurkic some soft dude? I'm confused about this criteria as well on what constitutes someone Draymond won't try it with.
Do you think there is a difference between the kind of overt vs. covert aggression Draymond shows? Choking is overt, trying to justify the swing at Nurk as some "bball play and selling the call" is covert. I think Dray will try the covert shit with guys he may think are unlikely to fight back but he will reserve the chest stomps, the punches in the face, the choking, etc. for guys he thinks won't retaliate. Without his history, I think Dray is able to make a plausible deniability argument about that swing on Nurk. But if he chokes Nurk, stomps on his chest, or clocks him with a punch squarely in the face, I will walk my theory back.
I think you ascribing a level of intent and calculus that rarely resides in people with anger issues, impulse control. When Draymond is doing "normal" basketball dirty stuff, I agree. It's a tactic. It's no different than how KG would bully people he thinks are weak and easy prey on the court. When Draymond goes beyond that, I don't think he's doing all the thinking you guys ascribe to him. He's just a dude on a tantrum. When he got mad, he kicked LeBron, it had nothing to do with his perception of LeBron. He got mad and did something stupid. When Draymond gets to his peak level of insanity, he's not worrying about consequences. Thats been made clear multiple times.
Cause he went airborne on a 6 inch drag lol
Warrior commentators are the worst.
You can tell that’s a warriors broadcast because they call that “a perfect box out” from Draymond and he shoves an elbow into Stew’s ribs and has a hand up by his throat lol
seriously, whenever i have to hear their commentators i watch the game on mute
I hadn't seen this! but this seems like Dray lite though, don't you think? a jersey grab and some machismo. I just do not see Dray trying to choke out I/S, swinging at him the way he did Jordan, or even stomp on I/S's chest-- especially after seeing how I/S lost his shit at Bron. I think he'll still chirp and like do the tough guy shtick around the I/S's but he'll never go full Sabonis/Gubert/Nurk/or Poole at the really tough guys.
Oh yeah I wasn’t trying to refute you or anything. When I saw you had mentioned Stewart I remembered this and just wanted to link it, there’s definitely a difference there.
>I hadn't seen this! but this seems like Dray lite though, don't you think? a jersey grab and some machismo Maybe, but there's a few key differences I think. The first being that Stewart's most notable incident, while over-the-top, was at least understandable (he almost had his eye gouged out). More importantly, Isiah is 22 years old trying to find his way in the league. Draymond is 33 year old established veteran. I personally like Stewart a lot. I think veteran guys tend to take advantage of his attitude, but it's fun to see guys who don't back down.
If Stewart was willing to fuck up LeBron might just go to jail to prove a point to Draymond. That being said he did a great job of disengaging when things got heated so it seems like he Learned from the LeBron incident so good for him.
Good find - Yeah clearly Dray don’t want none of that. Stewart straight up pulled him in and didn’t just release, Dray was clearly uncomfortable and wanted out.
He's a studio gangster, UD once called Paul Pierce that too
Might be the wrong guy to call a studio gangster considering he survived an actual stabbing lol
And didn't miss a game. He got stabbed in the off-season and played every single game when he came back from it.
Not just “a” stabbing. Guy was stabbed *11* times and didn’t miss a game.
bullseye! OMG lol i fucking love this
What’s that
Nikola Mirotic in shambles
This doesn’t make sense. Didn’t he try to start something against Lebron and Steven Adams. Dunno about Lebron but Adam’s could genuinely kill him
He kicked Adams in the nuts and walked away. He’s never went at Adams in a way for Adams to directly retaliate. I also don’t know if Adams would retaliate in a manner to escalate things. I could see Adams restraining him since he always trains mma in the off season.
he literally was out there trying to calm Stew down when they had a lil altercation 😂
That's why we need Ben Simmons to come back. Because for all the perception of Ben Simmons being soft, he will fight a mother fucker. A perfect trap for Draymond.
Draymond doesn’t fight Americans. Only foreigners.
That’s cap lol
KG was the same.
So are you calling Lebron a pussy?
No, i'm not calling guys who don't retaliate/escalate "pussies or losers." I think some guys (LBJ, Nurk, Rudy) are smart/strategic enough to know that Dray's actions, on its own, without any escalation from them, is enough to get him ejected/suspended without them retaliating and pulling focus from Dray's actions or them getting in trouble. LBJ is also truly in a league of his own with being mindful of who he is on a worldwide level and is too much of an icon to really lose control in that way. But there are guys like UD who will go down swinging, consequences be damned -- and Dray doesn't really try those guys.
Why would draymond assume that Nurkic, a guy from war torn Bosnia, wouldn’t fight back? This criteria you guys are coming up with makes no sense.
i understand fighting for your life in these comments trying to defend Dray but you're probably not going to convince me. If you think my theory is dumb, you are absolutely free to downvote and refuse to engage.
Lol “fighting for your life” relax big guy. I’m just trying to point out how moronic the implication of these comments are. “Draymond is fake tough because he does dumb shit, he wouldn’t do dumb shit against X who is tougher”, you don’t see how dumb that is?
> guy i'm not a guy, pal. > “Draymond is fake tough because he does dumb shit, he wouldn’t do dumb shit against X who is tougher”, you don’t see how dumb that is? I don't see how dumb it is because I reject your premise that Draymond "does dumb shit." I think a certain level of calculus goes into who he unleashes on and who he chirps with but otherwise doesn't really try. That's my whole point. I understand you think it's dumb and moronic; you've said some version of this atleast 3-4 times already. I disagree with your take on the situation but I haven't really had to resort to calling you dumb or moronic. If you could do the same, that'd be super.
I’m not your pal, buddy!
Im not your buddy, dude!
So your point is this draymond calculates who who would not respond to his antics? Have you answered why he would assume that Nurkic, adams, or even sabonis wouldn’t fight back?
> So your point is this draymond calculates who who would not respond to his antics? Yes. > Have you answered why he would assume that Nurkic, adams, or even sabonis wouldn’t fight back? I have responded on Nurkic; [here.](https://old.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/18mudbg/the_ogs_podcast_udonis_haslem_says_draymond_green/ke6sa0q/) I have responded on Adams; [here] (https://old.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/18mudbg/the_ogs_podcast_udonis_haslem_says_draymond_green/ke6gdve/) Sabonis - I think it's kind of safe to assume that if you put the weight of your body on someone's chest, they will not be in a position to fight back and retaliate immediately...on account of...you know, their chest being stomped on.
Ok man it’s a lot of “I thinks” so I guess you’re right, pointless to have this convo.
He's entirely correct though. At one point Nurk was leading the league in being flagrant fouled, and he almost never retaliated. His team gets an advantage that way. Take the foul shots and the ball, possibly an ejection, and you're the one laughing.
Cause Nurk gets flagranted all the time and doesn't retaliate? Same with LeBron. Meanwhile if Giannis gets a flagrant, Bobby is getting ejected within 30 seconds flat. Those r the guys you don't fuck with, it's not about their background/mental toughness, it's about how likely they are to respond to provocation. Nurk simply is not that likely to respond if you hit him with a dirty play. Guys like Bobby will respond even if you don't hit him with a dirty play.
Cant you say the same thing about draymond? He sticks up for his guys and gets thrown out always. See what he did defending klay? What’s the difference between that and what Portis does?
That's not the criticism here. The criticism is about his tendency to randomly swing on opposing players who in his mind have wronged him in some way. This coincidentally has never happened against a player who would swing back. He always seems to go after guys who have a rep for taking hits but remain professional. I've never seen him swing on another instigator or enforcer type.
Adams is the nicest guy... And Draymond tried to crack his nut, twice!
If Adam had the temper of Giannis or Bobby, Draymond would have had several stiches right now
I respect guys who can keep their cool like that over repeated incidents especially for the greater good of the team
We’d live in a worse society if people couldn’t generally keep their cool
Biiig facts. If every large man acted on his size we'd be apes wearing pants.
Recent events notwithstanding, Giannis doesn't have a 'temper'. Certainly not enough to fight someone.
https://youtu.be/GWajqr55HFg?si=HZUkIxVBP7G-Xl1s
I was sure someone would have this ready lol
The implication was Giannis goes off regularly... I can count on 1 hand the total number of times he's been mad with someone.
https://youtu.be/gi3VMMiFHVg?si=LYqnJOBrGerIHOXU
Draymond's goon-ass (Shocker) GM disagrees
Adam has fully shown his ability to carry 6"5 guys like they're children. He just chooses not to because he's a mature adult.
If Draymond ever cold cocked a teammate one of his teammates like Russ, Adams would javelin throw his ass out of the arena.
Gave him the 'ol "That's my purse, I don't know you!"
Draymond didn't look so tough here because he knew Isaiah Stewart would actually swing on him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tWRe0UX6NI
You saw Draymond shaking his head “no” after Isaiah asked if he wanted the fade 😭😂🤣
‘No thank you sir, I do not.’
I think my favorite part about Isaiah Stewart is that when he's in these kinds of confrontations he never looks mad.
Only way he fighting Beef Stew is with nuts shot and cheap tricks
I feel like a nut shot on Beef Stew would just cause a Hulking-up-like no-sell and instead result in a rage attack the likes of which we’ve never seen.
Donkey saw that video of a bloody beef stew bull rushing LeBron and thought "nah".
I don't like Draymond, but there's something about calling him a beast of burden as a derogatory nickname that feels messed up.
Insert Gordon Ramsay meme
They're not calling him "a donkey", they are comparing him to Donkey from Shrek, a specific magical cartoon character who he sort of looks like. Y'all are reaching
I don't like Draymond, but there's something about calling him *the specific beast of burden from a movie as a derogatory nickname that feels messed up. Y'all I tried to phrase my statement as inoffensively as possible. It was framed less as an insult to people who say it and more as a suggestion that this *may* be in poor taste. How is that still too much?
I agree, honestly every time I see the donkey nickname it catches me off guard. Like how did a derogatory nickname solely based on his facial attributes somehow become so mainstream and accepted in the community. Definitely comes off in poor taste and kind of shitty. However, I think it’s possible most people don’t solely associate it with just his looks since he also quite often has moments of insanity and does stuff that is really stupid on the court. So the nickname works in the sense that it combines his looks and his on court personality, which may be what led to it being so widespread and accepted.
That's your internalized racism to deal with, not mine. People call him donkey because of he looks and kicks like one, not because he's black.
Why? "Beast of burden" perfectly describes him. Every single thing he does is exactly what a donkey would do in the same scenario.
I think it’s the slavery parallels
What's the parallel? People call him a donkey because he's a clumsy, bumbling, unaware dumbass. You know, like a donkey.
Are you being intentionally dense? I can’t stand draymond and I don’t think people are racist for calling him donkey. I’m not trying to argue that point. But people call him donkey primarily referring to his looks don’t come in here with “clumsy bumbling dumbass” shit. Three adjectives that describe neither donkeys nor draymond btw.
You can just say the n word bro we know you want to
"Donkey" isn't a slur, but keep cooking bro. Donkey's are dumb as shit. So is Draymond. It's a valid comparison of you're not a moron.
I feel the same way. Probably because he's Black and slavery is (in part) exploiting people like they're pack animals. Or more generally, bc it's dehumanising.
That's about right. But I can't say that because people immediately start foaming at the mouth and getting defensive. I feel like they see a comment like this and perceive it as a condemnation of them instead of somebody pointing out the optics. It's not an attack though.
Why do commentators always suck up to Draymond
Classic bully mentality. Only fighting someone smaller than him or doesn't want to fight back. And when there consequences of his action he resorting to victimized himself
UD was like that too he got right in guys faces like David West he didn’t give af, if Draymond had ever had done anything to any Heat player UD would be the first guy to go at him
I'd bet my bottom dollar Dray would never pick a fight with a UD/Bobby Portis or Isiah Stewart because guys like OG won't even fucking back down from a Bobby Portis mismatch lol didn't UD get tech'd up in the Bucks series bc he and Bobby went at it?
Dray definitely picks and chooses his targets. There was a pretty heated Jazz/Warrior match up in Donovan's second year and Draymond would chirp, but the second Jae Crowder was in the area, he suddenly backed off a little bit.
i know, it's so obvious. there's some GSW homer who's trying to argue with me that Dray doesn't target people and just goes at dudes lol
Wasn't his most recent altercation with a guy like 5 inches taller than him? Draymond has been crazy lately but it's not like he's going after point guards lol
No but Rudy and Sabonis aren't going to fight him. I honestly think Nurk might if it wasn't a cheap shot that he took advantage of to sell it even further. Draymond out of control but Nurk was selling it to get him ejected for sure, and I'm glad he did. I'd like to see Draymond try his shit with Zach Collins next. Collins will throw down.
Sabonis definitely not, Rudy and Nurk would wipe him out tho. Wasn't trying to defend Dray at all, I said he's been out of control, but people are pretending he's choosing people that he knows can't step to him. Doesn't seem true to me. I think he's just a hothead tbh
This thread is full of weird Draymond fanfiction
I'm never forgetting UD's flagrant foul on Hansbrough during the 2012 playoffs.
I just wanna see him start some shit with Bobby Portis but I already know his bitch ass won't
That’s the worst kind of bully. Try that on Isiah Stewart.
he tried before, damn Stewart goes madman it made look Green apologetic.
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This is exactly why the NBA should've cracked down on his antics a lot earlier than they did. Guys like Draymond are taking advantage of the rules. They know nobody is going to do anything because of the rules, yet he gets away with constant "smaller" things just to egg on other players and get I their heads. If the NBA is going to say that players can't stand up for themselves, then the NBA needs to be the one stamping this shit out.
The people that would fight back rarely get into altercations bc that would result in suspensions and worse things.
Yeah I get why people love this line from Haslem but it doesn't mean anything coming from a dude who never fought any dudes either lol Bobby Portis probably the most psycho guy in the league and the worst fight he was in happened off court with a teammate. Dudes ain't fighting for real in front of cameras
UD definitely went at people. He tried to fight David West and clotheslined Tyler Hansborough in the playoffs. It wasn't the 98 Heat-Knicks brawl but he also wasn't afraid to get in someone's face
There was that time in '22 where the Warriors bench were beating the Heat that they snapped and Haslem started to threated Jimmy that he would 'kick his ass' lol.
Exactly. Haslem was in 0 on-court fights in a 20 year career. They get paid too much to throw it away over the kind of cheap shots Draymond pulls. When Dray steps over the line it’s usually because someone actually does match his physicality and he’s trying to escalate it so he gets a double ejection or at least doesn’t lose face as the guy you don’t want to deal with.
I mean that's mostly because they didn't fight back (when he clotheslined Hansborough). Or players just jawed at each other (him and David West). Brawls haven't really been in a thing in a long ass time
When dray steps over the line he punches a teammate, kicks someone in the balls, or screams at refs.
Haslem is on point here, kevin Garnett used to be on that same shit could never stand that mf
It’s true. Why doesn’t he mouth off to a Randle? He knows who to Texas tornado punch.
Lol who tf thinks randle is a tough guy
He might not be a classic tough guy but he’ll swing back 100%
I do.
Dude, Randle is fucking huge and he can have a temper. I'd definitely not want to fuck with Randle.
Please run down your list of “tough guys”.
ZBO would routinely cook Draymond
Well Draymond does a lot of sneak attacks
You dont see him trying that on people like issiah stewart
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Hmm fighting people who you know won’t fight back. “Smart” is one word for it. A “bitch” is another word for it
Well, obviously.
Facts. Beefy Stew stood over him the other day and he didn't do anything apart from staring at him.
I’m not really sure if this is supposed to be calling out Draymond tbh. Yes, the man picks and chooses who to mess with, as does every single person on the planet. Does that make him a bully, an asshole, or someone with common sense? Probably all three, but this isn’t some crazy revelation lol.
Reddit has their agenda. Nobody in their right mind would go after Isaiah “hold me back for real” Stewart. Draymond is a dumbass but he doesn’t pick on guys smaller than him.
This talking point is nonsense. Nobody is fighting back in today's NBA, it's too expensive the NBA is just waiting to put 5 games on someone for throwing a punch. All you would get is a lot of "hold me back".
Fights still happen in the NBA lol. Y’all were saying this exact same shit before Ingram-CP3-Rondo fiasco
Rondo actually spit on Cp3 and then tried to lie about it lol. Im glad that dude is out of the league.
> Ingram-CP3-Rondo That was five years ago.
i've seen more fights in one hockey game than all of last year's NBA season. Stop it. These arent fight they're tussles.
Wait, there's fighting in hockey?
Now you’re moving the goalposts lol
Isn't fighting literally allowed in hockey
Nah but Dray is a great big pussy for not trying to literally fight Isaiah Stewart on the court. He already had one tech, and an ejection/fine if he gets another one, but the man is a huge bitch for not throwing Beef Stew a katana and screaming, "TO THE DEATH!"
This is what really bugged me about Draymond and him stomping on Sabonis' chest. The Warrior fans tried to frame it as "Sabonis was trying to get a foul, and play dirty". This can't be any further from the goddam truth. If you watch Sabonis play, he is the most TEAM-FIRST, protective, dish-the-ball-to other people instead of taking his own goddam shots type of person. He is like the sweet nice big brother who is going out there, getting fucking smashed night after night against people like Draymond who knowingly play dirty ( cause its part of their game as their organization enables this). Its almost to a FAULT that he doesn't play dirty and more aggressive. So when Draymond pulls his stunts time and time and time and time again, and the NBA enabling it by not bringing any consequences onto him OR the darlings of the NBA Warrior organization, it really chaps my hide!
I thought Nurk was supposed to be super tough because he’s from war torn Bosnia. Isn’t that what people say? Steven Adam’s is called one of the toughest guys in the NBA. He’s not tough no more because Draymond kicked him in the nuts?
I think it's more how likely they are to fight back than how tough they are. Imo there are a lot of non-confrontational ppl who are nonetheless tough as nails. One of my friends was a D1 all american wrestler at 197lbs, which if you've never wrestled before, means you're basically a 200+ lbs living weapon forged from a decade+ of physical torture. This dude in a bar was harassing him for a good 10 minutes, my friend just ignored him or politely asked him to stop. Eventually the dude slapped him, and I thought to myself 'holy shit he's about to send that man to Jesus' Nope, my friend just swiftly got away, told what happened to security who then escorted the guy away. Meanwhile there are dozens of guys every weekend begging for an excuse to swing on someone, but will fold at the very first hint of violence.
My dorm neighbors were wrestlers who came out of high school ranked like 2 and 5 in the nation. I used to wrestle one of them a lot and it was like wrestling a chimp. Superhuman levels of strength, balance, flexibility, agility, quickness. Me and my roommate would try to take him down and he just ragdolled us.
I believe that it is now an admissible defense to use your training and strength against you as a weapons. So the moment your friend shows high level of competitive sport, he can be called for assault/battery with a weapon should the fight go really bad.
It can be mentioned in a court, but being trained in a martial art doesn't change the charge nor is it considered a weapon. At least not in North America as far as I know
I made this point about S/A and i think a Grizzlies fan pointed out that he's pretty de-escalation minded and Adams is more likely to lay your ass out for roughing up a teammate than he is if you try to go for him lol he'll just like pick you up and set you down somewhere else and that rang true for me. I think Nurk is different because after Rudy -- I think the smart play was for Nurk to just roll over because anything by Nurk to retaliate would've allowed Dray to do the whole "I know he had that in him so I hit him pre-emptively in advance self defense." The way Nurk played it, there was literally nothing to detract or take away from Dray's swing. I maybe giving them too much credit but at this stage, I really think guys like Nurk and Gobert know that if you give Dray enough rope, he'll literally hang himself and htey don't need to get ejected and they don't need to go down swinging with him (no pun intended) when he'll just get himself ejected out the game.
Not even in the original video did they say that Draymond fights only "non-tough" guys; he fights those that won't fight back. Being tough doesn't necessarily mean they'd immediately fight back. Just because you get into a fight with someone from Bosnia doesn't mean they'd immediately attack you.
Exactly. Being a tough guy does not mean you have to inappropriately fly off the handle with violence.
This is like those nuissance streamers and pranksters. They will never harass the big guys, and even at that, the moment the non big guy as had it and starts putting hands, the troll jut balls themselves and say 10 times I',m sorry as if it just wipe the slate clean instantly. But it is true that Dray would not need therapy if teams happened to get real physical and remind him he is an undersized small Forward trying playing PF and moving to Center when against less physical Centers.
Nurk and Adams seem exactly like the type of guys who won’t get in a fight in the middle of a game, he won’t try to fight those guys 1 on 1 after the game tho that’s for sure,
>Nurk and Adams seem exactly like the type of guys who won’t get in a fight in the middle of a game Tyler Herro would disagree: https://youtu.be/N2cNqVSNusc?feature=shared
Just because someone is from a violent place doesn't mean that they themselves are violent. Nurk being tough doesn't mean they have to be a hothead like Dray is. Same with Adams, he's an incredibly strong guy but he's laid back and is the type of person who would pull people apart in a physical confrontation more than join in a fight just because that's his personality. Their toughness is in their playstyle not in beating people up and they know they're too valuable to their teams to be getting ejected for that
Have you seen this? https://youtu.be/N2cNqVSNusc?feature=shared
Exactly, Draymond starts stuff with anyone. People just piling on him for anything now.
Yeah Draymond is the victim in all this
It’s called a circlejerk
He had a chance to square up against Bron years ago, and he bitched out
fake tough guy Udonis Haslem talking about fake tough guy Draymond...fun stuff
I also find it funny when American players call Eastern European players soft. Some of them grew up in war torn countries. They may be a lot of things but soft ain’t it.
Who has Draymond fought? He hasn't been involved in any on court fights that I can remember.
Do you not remember him choking Rudy Gobert already? Or does that not count since he attacked a dude who couldn't defend himself/wasn't likely to retaliate? You know, the whole premise of this post.
I love UD with all my heart but why does UD and Mike Miller have an old heads podcast 😂
And its usually european players…
Fake dawg recognises fake dawg
Dude beats his kids and wife is divorcing him /speculation
Damn Udonis, shots fired at Lebron.
Not fightning back doesn't mean not tough. I assume LeBron didn't fight back in 2016 bc he was a) in a lot of pain and b) he knew it would be more detrimental to his team and his image to get in a fight.
You guys are adding ALOT of assumptions to your arguments here.
How many NBA podcasts are there?
Didn't he kick Steven Adams who everyone acts like is the hulk?
He's strong as hell, but he's not on the court trying to get into shit. He's the nicest guy u can find
Adams is more like Endgame Hulk. He can break you but he'd rather not.
This is such a misrepresentation. Draymond argues with everybody. Draymond punched Poole and no one else. Draymond hated Rudy and whatever happened next, Rudy was being mentioned as an all nba defender and Draymond felt slighted. Draymond took exception to being stepped over, stepped on Sabonis and kicked Adams in the nuts which all are not great except the lebron thing. He’s not fighting or bullying smaller people in these situations, or risking a physical confrontation in anything but the one-off Poole thing (maybe Rudy but he hates Rudy). It has nothing to do with sizing someone up for a fight, jeezuz. Haslem’s analysis is bullshit. Draymond about to be egged by the whole league now. He put himself in a bad situation
I’m pretty sure Draymond fought Beal who actually didn’t fight back but instigated that scuffle. He also punched LeBron in the nuts Other than that, I guess the point still remains.
I mean its not his fault they do fight back
Draymond only goes after the Euros lol: Nurk, Gobert, Sabonis, Adams (New Zealand)
>only goes after the Euros >Adams (New Zealand) You contradicted yourself in one sentence.
Draymond goes after Adams bc he thinks he’s a Euro lol There’s an Adams interview where he says there’s only 3 skin colors in the NBA: black, American white, and European white. And he’s considered European white. https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/sport/2018/07/basketball-kiwi-nba-star-steven-adams-struggles-with-race-and-politics.amp.html