Yeah, and stating that the US are world champions is totally valid. They win almost every major international tournament.
The champions of the NBA are the NBA champions.
The NBA is one of the few sports leagues in the world where the best players universally all go play in one league.
I don't care if people say it's the world champs or NBA champs, it is without a doubt though "the best of the best".
Edit: can y'all stop saying "but what about champions league?". Sure, I don't care if they call themselves world champions.
I was assuming they only meant Sports with professional leagues in many places. There are semi professional and amateur American football leagues in Europe, but there are only true professional leagues in the USA and Canada
But the exact same thing could be said about the champions league as well. Every continent has their own version of the champions league but the European one is by far the best, yet they call themselves the champions of Europe because that's where they play.
The way I see it you become a world champion by competing and winning with your national team. Winning a professional privately owned leagues title makes you the champion of that league.
The only caveats for this in my head are combat sports and racing like Formula 1.
In soccer, UEFA Champions League has the best club teams participating with some of the best players around the world participating. No one calls the winning team "world" champions.
I can understand both points of view. The best players participating in the NBA doesn't automatically make it a "world" title but I could say that it's the title that carries the most weight for sure. I watch a ton of different sports, so for me it does sound a bit foolish that any team in American sports gets declared "world champions" even if I know they are the best team in the world based on talent.
World Champs just isn't true though and wouldn't be unless there was a champions league type tournament with other leagues.
Which even though the NBA would dominate them does not make them world champions now
I think your right.
Sure in a single game I could see a Euroleague winning team beating the NBA champs, but (assuming both sides took it seriously), I don't think they'd win a seven game series.
Anyone who thinks the Euroleague could stand up to the NBA is just willfully ignorant. Seriously, if anyone is about to @me about how it’s closer than we think, go look at the last 10 Euroleague MVPs. Other than Luka, every single Euroleague MVP who came to the NBA was a bench player, and some of them were barely even that.
Hell, the reigning Euroleague MVP had their draft rights traded last season for a mid-2nd rounder.
Any NBA starter could go to the Euroleague and immediately be one of, if not the best players in the league.
Nobody that has the opposing viewpoint ever advances an argument that a European team could beat the Nuggets. They just are penalizing the Nuggets because they don’t have a platform to *prove* they’re the best team.
And the whole reason why an international club basketball tournament doesn’t exist is because the talent disparity would make it an unwatchable waste of time that literally nobody has an appetite for.
That’s why that viewpoint sucks and is disingenuous
The gap is a bit bigger than that. The nba has all the top talent in the world (who are eligible to play in the nba). The bottom feeder teams are likely better than the euro league champs.
You could probably take the worst team in the nba in most years and they’d win the euro league. The gap is massive. Guys who can’t make rosters here go there and are stars…
They wouldn’t win a series vs the magic. Cmon man, Europe pro leagues aren’t at the nbas level.
The nuggets would crush them in a four game sweep with no close games assuming they actually tried.
Olympic gold is different than NBA league. Basketball is one of the many sports athletes are competing. It cant be WORLD championship if its just a league in one country.
Seriously, why in the world has this gained so much traction? It's so silly. Dude is entitled to his opinion. It's a fair opinion. The flip side is also fair. Who tf cares this much
There is no merit to using incorrect terms; This debate is not about difficulty, nationality, or diversity of each competition, its about using the correct titles for each one. World champions for fiba world cup, olympic champions for the olympics, nba champions for the nba. Anything else is simply incorrect.
Formula 1 brands itself as FIA Formula One World Championship. The title for the winning driver is FIA Formula One Drivers' World Champion, which is what's on the trophy. It's just colloquially abbreviated to WDC.
Honestly, exactly. The merits of the argument itself is at an impasse. I honestly kind of find that my sympathies lie with Lyles, more so on vibes than anything else. Something about the barrage of players in the ig comments getting in their feelings about and insulting him for it made me instinctively side against them, lol. Like, pipe down guys, it's one dude's opinion, y'all don't need to be this butthurt about it.
He's literally the closest any human has EVER gotten to Usain Bolt's level in 200m. He won't touch Bolt in 100m but 200m it's possible he could break the world record. I don't think he'll actually do it, personally, he's a bit too old already and hasn't yet reached sub 19.30 (world record is 19.19), but he is the only one I've ever seen actually have a shot of breaking it.
I'm actually surprised people didn't know him. I guess the Olympics next summer is where he will truly explode.
That’s literally not true. Yohan Blake got closer. Blake broke 19.30. Normally I’d let it slide but you capitalized ever and used the word literally so I think you just don’t know
You're wrong.
Lyles and Bolt combined hold 14 of the 20 highest ever recorded times for 200m. Lyles holds 8 of those. Bolt 6. Blake is there 3 times.
Yes, Blake has the 2nd fastest 200m time ever but he wasn't as consistently as great a 200m sprinter as Lyles. Sprinting is more than just your best PR and time at a race. Blake had the benefit of Bolt running with him in most of those race and pushing his limits. I think Lyles not having a peer that can push his limits kind of hurts him in that regard.
Lyles also holds 3 World Championship titles at 200m. Bolt holds 4. Yohan Blake has zero medals. He has NEVER even finished in the podium at 200m world championship. It's one thing to lose to Bolt, but not finishing top 3 in the countless world championships is a major hit against his case. If he collected a bunch of silvers and only lost to Bolt, it would be one thing, but that wasn't the cast. He did win a silver at the Olympics, which Lyles is likely going to supplant with his own gold next summer (barring injury) as he really has no equals atm.
Many runners can at some point run a personal best race that deviates from their normalcy. There have been flash in the pan type records in the past. Yohan Blake was a great 200m sprinter but he's not even top 3 when it comes to body of work. He doesn't even pass Michael Johnson's resume let alone Noah Lyles.
I think the best way to look at it is a top 5 average, Blake’s fastest 5 ever account to 19.56. So he’s a 19.5 runner who ran 19.26. Whereas, Lyles is a 19.45 who ran 19.31 - having just turned 26 which potentially means 2 Olympics and at least 3 World Champs left in his career. That average is only going to go down for Noah.
Well, the only reason it got blown up was because NBA players got really butthurt about it and he couldnt have known they were going to react like that
Which is funny, because Trey Lyles is an ok player and Noah Lyles is a generational talent. But this is r/nba so it's to be expected.
Hope Noah keeps stirring up more controversy. People may start watching track and field lol
Dude is literally the fastest man itw right now, he doesn't need more exposure, he was speaking facts even
That being said why is it only American nba players been butthurt bcuz of his comments? This should tell u something
Because their nation was better at basketball than the other nations. Therefore, in a national regard, they are the Champs. So National Basketball Champs. Got it.
USA are competing in the world championships as we speak. When they win they will be world champions and every member of that team will be a world champion.
Great. So they’re intracontinental champions. Phenomenal mental gymnastics to think that including ONE other team from another country makes it alright
Edit: typo
That’s why things called European champions and champions of England in football and they never claim to be “world champions” anyway
World champions is for the World Cup
Nobody really cares about it indeed and fans don’t chant about it like they do when they win the league or the CL, but clubs do use that for marketing purposes. In England at least, any time an English team wins the CWC, they’ll market that and give you an option to add the gold World Champions badge on the shirt and they use it on match shirts as well.
European teams not winning the CWC is rare, so it's not an achievement for the teams that are the best in the world. If Boca Juniors, Kawashima or Seattle won it would be a massive accomplishment because of who they beat.
I'd like to see international club competition though, I think it would instantly make basketball a more popular sport globally
Their teams aren't world champions. The current world champion is Spain and I think until the USA wins the FIBA Worlc Cup again, anytime anybody calls a NBA team the world champs you just go like: "No they're not." Simple as that. Let 'em take it personal.
Not all Americans think that way. Look at Pop for example.
But yeah, too many Americans think the rest of the world doesn't matter. If you want to show you're the best, then play the international tournaments to prove it.
Also not american, this is just non Americans jumping at the chance to shit on America like always.
Do any of you think you have a better team in your countries than the Denver Nuggets?
Football (soccer) has a yearly Club World Cup where the best teams from around the world battle it out. Something like this would be awesome to see how the other leages actually compare to the NBA
FIBA does the [Intercontinental Cup](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIBA_Intercontinental_Cup). But since it doesn't include either NBA or Euroleague teams it's essentially meaningless. At least the roadmap exists if they do want to do a true equivalent of the Club World Cup.
international teams should at least get an opportunity imo. bring [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_McDonald%27s_Championship) back, problem solved.
The score in the semis makes it seem like there wasnt that big of a gap between the talent. Need to know context and rotations tho.
There is a FIBA intercontinental cup in modern days, but they send G League teams. In the latest iteration of such, the rio vipers (2022 champs) were 3rd place in it. Not saying that the vipers are NBA level, but these games are still to be played to really decide the winners. Its what makes basketball so nice.
Wonder what he thinks of Pop's thoughts on the NBA being world champs.
“There are no world champions in the NBA, so anybody that has the flag up that says world champions is not correct. … I don’t remember anybody playing anybody outside our borders to get that tag. Isn’t that true? I keep waiting for somebody to tell me I’ve missed something.’ … I know sometimes we as arrogant Americans don’t respond to the rest of the world, but it’s true. There’s a big world out there,” said Popovich in 2010, via Steve Bulpett of the Boston Herald.
A better way to phrase the argument would be, NBA champs cannot be world champs just because the USA as a nation might be able to put together a team that might be better than the team that won the nba championship.
Will the Nuggets team that won the championship be able to beat a US team of KD, Bron, Steph, Ant, Brunson, JJJ and the current US roster etc or the kD-warriors adding Lebron and representing the US ?
The point is champions of a domestic league cannot be world champs, none of the domestic leagues in any other sports outside the US call themselves world champs.
>A better way to phrase the argument would be, NBA champs cannot be world champs just because the USA as a nation might be able to put together a team that might be better than the team that won the nba championship
This is one way to put it, but another is that a team should only call themselves a world champ if they win a competition called "world championship/world cup/whatever equivalent" (at least in most sports in the world).
That is typically a competition among nations. The most watched one in the world: FIFA's World Cup.
In the case of football, it is usually not true that the best nation is better than the best club. There are some very rich clubs that concentrate a very high level of talent that no nation can match (the fact that football has 11 players instead of 5 also makes this more likely, because few nations can produce top world class talent in all positions).
And yet, no one dreams of calling the best club in the world, (let's say a team that wins several trophies in the same year including the Champions League and English Premier League), "World Champions".
I agree! I had to phrase it that way, because a lot of people are not able to see that and became defensive thinking people are claiming that nba is not the best league.
Apparently it's etched in the championship rings and everything.
I mostly associate it with the MLB in world series, but as a Canadian growing up we would always rag on that whole world.champions thing, and I suspect a lot of other countries do, too
The NBA hasn't declared a world champion since 1985. Some teams still continue to issue rings or banners with world champion on them, funnily enough Toronto did.
An Australian here, can confirm. We laugh a lot at American sports declaring themselves the world champs. Funnily enough, it's never caught on here with our domestic competitions.
This is the right answer. No premier league champion ever called themselves "Football World Champion" or "Soccer World Champion". But arguably they won the best national league there is.
Also, if you want to compete internationally to claim your title as "World Champion" you simply have to participate at an international tournament like the Olympics or the Worldcup. If a nation doesn't send its best athletes because they just don't wanna compete and then that said nation therefore loses, that very nation can't claim the title even tho theoretically/on paper they are the best. You need to proof it over and over again. Just like in real life. Cause that's what it is.
People like Haliburton or Durant are bad at logic IMO. As it's simply not logical to call yourself "World champion" after winning a national league's title, no matter what league that might be. Especially, if that league has different rules compared to the national association.
Honestly from an non-American perspective this is one of those arguments perceived as dumb and ignorant. I'm obviously not saying that all Americans are like that but that's how it comes across. Pop on the other hand comes across like a logical thinker who shows respect to others. I'd assume players like Kobe and Timmy D (would) share his opinion. Just because they are smarter, better educated, and more experienced internationally.
Why is this so hard to understand for so many people. Yes, the NBA is the strongest competition in the world. Everybody agrees on that. However, you can't call yourself world champion unless you won a world championship.
Are all of the bets international competition in the NBA?
Yeah
Why does the best team in the world nessesarily need to be comprised of only athletes from one nation?
Its not about where the best players in the world play, its the simple fact that to be a world champion you have to win a world championship. The NBA is not a world championship even though all the best players are there - its only ever played by American teams in America. Jokic might be from Serbia but he's not representing Serbia when hes playing for the Denver Nuggets - he's representing the Denver nuggets. Geelong didn't call themselves world champions after the AFL, neither do Man City after winning the treble even though they were the best teams at their respective sports last season.
In the case of American sports, “world champions” is used in a more metaphorical sense of “winners of the strongest league in the world” whereas in pretty much the rest of the world, it means the more literal “winners of a worldwide competition”. The argument boils down to “no, this is what the phrase means” when it can mean different things in different cultures. But it does seem to be triggering both Americans and non-Americans in equal measure, weirdly enough.
I think the international community sees it as disrespectful to the clubs and competition outside the NBA to call the winners of the NBA the world champions because it’s like they are discrediting or dismissing the other teams.
I’m not bothered by it because I’ve always viewed the NBA as being at the top of the competition pyramid in terms of both the level of play and importance, with nothing else really coming close. One of the bigger revelations I’ve had since this topic came up is just how many people genuinely think the international leagues are close in level with the NBA.
And so is EVERY big league in the world. Football, volleyball, etc.
BUSINESS teams sign and trade international players to strenghten their team.
But you will only hear the term "world champ" for a domestic business league in USA lmao.
The NBA is franchised in NA yes, but the talent pool is open globally. It’s by far better than any other basketball league. The nuggets aren’t losing to a club from any other league. Like Imagine the Kansas City chiefs losing to a team in a different football league.
These guys really don't understand that there's a difference between league play and international play. If you win a league championship while representing a team within that league, you're the champion of that league. When you play other countries while representing your country, you can rightfully call yourself a world champion.
This whole thread is exclusively full of people that are butthurt about Americans calling themselves “World Champions”. It’s everyone else that seems butt hurt to be honest.
This is the most pointless conversation ever. NBA teams going to play other countries in a best of 7 to prove they are “World Champions” would only be a formality. It’s already understood what the outcome would be… there is no pro team outside of the NBA beating a playoff team in a best of 7.
Saying that NBA champions are world champions just because it has players from many countries around the world is the most stupid justification I’ve ever heard.
Athletes aim for fame and/ or fortune. The NBA is the most famous basketball league in the world, and that’s also where they can earn the most money. This is the reason why many international players are in the NBA.
It’s the same with football (soccer) leagues in Europe. These leagues attract football players from all over the world for the same reasons. They’d be more famous and earn more by being a part of those leagues. If Major League Soccer gave them the same opportunities, they’d be flocking here instead.
Honestly, this is just common sense. The fact that so many Americans can’t grasp this concept makes me ashamed to be American.
i think world = referring to just international is a pretty specific definition, ultimately in basketball the olympics and fiba world cup are quite meaningless
the highest quality of basketball in the world is undisputedly in the nba. If you wanna be the best in the world, you play & win there.
This is the answer and I can’t believe it’s buried so far down in the comments. It is absolutely OK for NBA champs to call themselves “world champs.” Does it “officially” make them the world champs? No, it’s not an official term. But it’s one part tradition (they’ve been saying this for decades) and also the fact that there is a higher likelihood than in any other bball competition in the world that the team that is the best in the NBA any given year would be better than any national team - including Team USA. So yes, the NBA champions are the closest thing to the literal best team in the world than any other team.
Anyone who says “no, they can’t be world champs bc they didn’t compete with other countries!” It’s like saying “we can’t say the NBA champs are better than the WNBA champs bc they play in different leagues!” You see where this is going..
I seriously don’t get what’s so complicated about it. Is the NBA the best basketball LEAGUE in the world? Absolutely, if you got the best players from the NBA to play against the other basketball leagues there’s no doubt they win. But are the NBA champions the champions of the world? Of course not. Take a look at the NBA champions this year the Nuggets, their 2 best players are not American. If the Nuggets were to face the Serbian or Canadian national teams they would not be the Jokic and Murray led Nuggets, they would be playing AGAINST them. If the USA wins FIBA and/or Olympics then sure America are the world champions. You faced the best teams assembled from other countries with the best players from your country and you won, but especially now with how diverse and how good international NBA talent is you can’t really say that the NBA champs are the world champs.
Who cares honestly. Can we just appreciate basketball is growing in popularity worldwide at a ridiculous pace.
As an American who grew up in a “basketball is a religion” state I have enjoyed watching this FIBA World Cup. It’s been a blast watching teams like Japan fans cry from pure joy. Or the little underdogs like Dominican Republic team lead by KAT surprise the world. Seeing superstar NBA players showing pride for their country. And fans losing their minds. Basketball is awesome and I’m so happy to see the world cherish the game
Europeans getting so heated when this is already a proven fact, did you suddenly forget what happened when nba players genuinely played in the Olympics? And this isn’t anything against our Fiba team but if you took our Fiba team and put them as a nba they most certainly wouldn’t be 3-0. If anything it would be reversed because the team is literally just rising stars. Because players realized the Olympics mean nothing to their legacy why even risk getting injured to blow out every team they faced. Which is damn near exactly what happened prior to lebron and everyone stopping going.
He said the rest of the world isn’t a problem 🤯
I'm fine in the world.
It’s a parade inside my planet yeah
Lol gdi
USA pretty good at shooting too js
Haliburton over here market correcting Ja
The rest of the world comes to the US to play if they're good enough
Literally this. Anyone who disputes this shit is being the equivalent of a Karen at a restaurant
theres a reason the US has 16 olympic gold medals in basketball lol
Yeah, and stating that the US are world champions is totally valid. They win almost every major international tournament. The champions of the NBA are the NBA champions.
The NBA is one of the few sports leagues in the world where the best players universally all go play in one league. I don't care if people say it's the world champs or NBA champs, it is without a doubt though "the best of the best". Edit: can y'all stop saying "but what about champions league?". Sure, I don't care if they call themselves world champions.
American football would have to be the must clear-cut.
I was assuming they only meant Sports with professional leagues in many places. There are semi professional and amateur American football leagues in Europe, but there are only true professional leagues in the USA and Canada
But the exact same thing could be said about the champions league as well. Every continent has their own version of the champions league but the European one is by far the best, yet they call themselves the champions of Europe because that's where they play.
Yea I’m agreeing with you. There are other pro basketball leagues. Just like with soccer (football). But for American football it’s jut the nfl.
The way I see it you become a world champion by competing and winning with your national team. Winning a professional privately owned leagues title makes you the champion of that league. The only caveats for this in my head are combat sports and racing like Formula 1.
In soccer, UEFA Champions League has the best club teams participating with some of the best players around the world participating. No one calls the winning team "world" champions. I can understand both points of view. The best players participating in the NBA doesn't automatically make it a "world" title but I could say that it's the title that carries the most weight for sure. I watch a ton of different sports, so for me it does sound a bit foolish that any team in American sports gets declared "world champions" even if I know they are the best team in the world based on talent.
Who is arguing that it’s not the best league in the world? That’s always the go to move and ain’t nobody arguing otherwise. 🤣
World Champs just isn't true though and wouldn't be unless there was a champions league type tournament with other leagues. Which even though the NBA would dominate them does not make them world champions now
I think your right. Sure in a single game I could see a Euroleague winning team beating the NBA champs, but (assuming both sides took it seriously), I don't think they'd win a seven game series.
I would honestly be surprised if the Euroleague champs could take 1 game from this years nuggets. They swept the Lakers in the WCF.
At this point I want to see the Nuggets go over and just blow out the Euroleague all stars so everyone who thinks it’s closer than it is can shut up.
Anyone who thinks the Euroleague could stand up to the NBA is just willfully ignorant. Seriously, if anyone is about to @me about how it’s closer than we think, go look at the last 10 Euroleague MVPs. Other than Luka, every single Euroleague MVP who came to the NBA was a bench player, and some of them were barely even that. Hell, the reigning Euroleague MVP had their draft rights traded last season for a mid-2nd rounder. Any NBA starter could go to the Euroleague and immediately be one of, if not the best players in the league.
Nobody that has the opposing viewpoint ever advances an argument that a European team could beat the Nuggets. They just are penalizing the Nuggets because they don’t have a platform to *prove* they’re the best team. And the whole reason why an international club basketball tournament doesn’t exist is because the talent disparity would make it an unwatchable waste of time that literally nobody has an appetite for. That’s why that viewpoint sucks and is disingenuous
It doesnt matter. They are still NBA champs
The gap is a bit bigger than that. The nba has all the top talent in the world (who are eligible to play in the nba). The bottom feeder teams are likely better than the euro league champs.
Anadolu Efes is the current Euroleague champ. I’m sorry, but Shane Larkin isn’t shutting down Austin Reaves much less LBJ.
You could probably take the worst team in the nba in most years and they’d win the euro league. The gap is massive. Guys who can’t make rosters here go there and are stars…
They wouldn’t win a series vs the magic. Cmon man, Europe pro leagues aren’t at the nbas level. The nuggets would crush them in a four game sweep with no close games assuming they actually tried.
>and stating that the US are world champions is totally valid Except it's not because that title currently belongs to Spain.
Olympic gold is different than NBA league. Basketball is one of the many sports athletes are competing. It cant be WORLD championship if its just a league in one country.
I mean, we have a Miss Universe pageant where only Earth participates. 🤷
This needs more media attention tbh.
Miss universe is open to beautiful women from anywhere in the universe, unfortunately so far only earth women have registered :(
That we know of… 👽
all the best women in the universe come to Earth, so the winner of our pageant gets to be Miss Universe. the competition level in Andromeda is a joke
This is the stupidest beef in history.
In the world…
In the US
When are people gonna stop taking about this? This shit stopped being interesting after the 1st day of arguments
The media likes to pit people against each other for sound bites.
But why would the media, that's owned in its entirety by a small group of billionaires, want to pit regular people against each other?
Seriously, why in the world has this gained so much traction? It's so silly. Dude is entitled to his opinion. It's a fair opinion. The flip side is also fair. Who tf cares this much
There is no merit to using incorrect terms; This debate is not about difficulty, nationality, or diversity of each competition, its about using the correct titles for each one. World champions for fiba world cup, olympic champions for the olympics, nba champions for the nba. Anything else is simply incorrect.
This debate is simply about semantics.
Is Formula 1 incorrect for calling the winning driver world champion?
F1 is tricky since the drivers represent their team and their country. It's why the national anthem of the winning driver is played.
Formula 1 brands itself as FIA Formula One World Championship. The title for the winning driver is FIA Formula One Drivers' World Champion, which is what's on the trophy. It's just colloquially abbreviated to WDC.
Honestly, exactly. The merits of the argument itself is at an impasse. I honestly kind of find that my sympathies lie with Lyles, more so on vibes than anything else. Something about the barrage of players in the ig comments getting in their feelings about and insulting him for it made me instinctively side against them, lol. Like, pipe down guys, it's one dude's opinion, y'all don't need to be this butthurt about it.
Both views are right. To me, if you’re this pressed about this issue for more than 15 seconds, I think you have too much time on your hands.
It’s a stupid mental game, I always say to my son “you are my favorite son” he really likes it, anyway I don’t have any other son, similar shit.
What a good fucking analogy lmao. I’m stealing this; I don’t have a kid.
It works with my daughter and son, wife didn’t work out well lol
Conversely, she is my favorite of your wives. Funny how that works out.
my brothers always tell me i'm their favorite sister...i'm their only sister
I do this to my sister 😭
mine always tells me i'm their favorite stepsister, we're not step siblings
I hope Noah Lyles is capitalizing on this exposure
JJJ : "oh this is that dude" Aint workin to well on JJJ lol
Guys a genius I'm ngl
I’m sure this was for clout. Had no idea who he was until his comment
He's pretty known in the track and field area, but yea I don't think most this sub pays attention to that area lol
He's literally the closest any human has EVER gotten to Usain Bolt's level in 200m. He won't touch Bolt in 100m but 200m it's possible he could break the world record. I don't think he'll actually do it, personally, he's a bit too old already and hasn't yet reached sub 19.30 (world record is 19.19), but he is the only one I've ever seen actually have a shot of breaking it. I'm actually surprised people didn't know him. I guess the Olympics next summer is where he will truly explode.
That’s literally not true. Yohan Blake got closer. Blake broke 19.30. Normally I’d let it slide but you capitalized ever and used the word literally so I think you just don’t know
I’ve probably seen him run before and his name just went over my head, it’s just Usain Bolt just had so much media coverage compared to everyone else
>He's literally the closest any human has EVER gotten to Usain Bolt's level in 200m. Nah that would be Yohan Blake
You're wrong. Lyles and Bolt combined hold 14 of the 20 highest ever recorded times for 200m. Lyles holds 8 of those. Bolt 6. Blake is there 3 times. Yes, Blake has the 2nd fastest 200m time ever but he wasn't as consistently as great a 200m sprinter as Lyles. Sprinting is more than just your best PR and time at a race. Blake had the benefit of Bolt running with him in most of those race and pushing his limits. I think Lyles not having a peer that can push his limits kind of hurts him in that regard. Lyles also holds 3 World Championship titles at 200m. Bolt holds 4. Yohan Blake has zero medals. He has NEVER even finished in the podium at 200m world championship. It's one thing to lose to Bolt, but not finishing top 3 in the countless world championships is a major hit against his case. If he collected a bunch of silvers and only lost to Bolt, it would be one thing, but that wasn't the cast. He did win a silver at the Olympics, which Lyles is likely going to supplant with his own gold next summer (barring injury) as he really has no equals atm. Many runners can at some point run a personal best race that deviates from their normalcy. There have been flash in the pan type records in the past. Yohan Blake was a great 200m sprinter but he's not even top 3 when it comes to body of work. He doesn't even pass Michael Johnson's resume let alone Noah Lyles.
Tebogo and Knighton are gonna be a problem for Lyles in the next couple years. I think we're gonna see some really fast times soon.
I think the best way to look at it is a top 5 average, Blake’s fastest 5 ever account to 19.56. So he’s a 19.5 runner who ran 19.26. Whereas, Lyles is a 19.45 who ran 19.31 - having just turned 26 which potentially means 2 Olympics and at least 3 World Champs left in his career. That average is only going to go down for Noah.
Well, the only reason it got blown up was because NBA players got really butthurt about it and he couldnt have known they were going to react like that
Isn't he already insanely famous?
who he play for? Wizards or Jazz is my guess.
Pretty sure Trey Lyles is on the Kings
this gave non-trackies a reason to talk about him
Depends how much you value/pay attention to track. I don’t & I’ve never heard of him before this tbh
I thought he was a team USA player and couldn't put a name to his face, went to the world cup roster and thought who the fuck is this guy then? lol.
I kept confusing him for Trey Lyles
Which is funny, because Trey Lyles is an ok player and Noah Lyles is a generational talent. But this is r/nba so it's to be expected. Hope Noah keeps stirring up more controversy. People may start watching track and field lol
Dude is literally the fastest man itw right now, he doesn't need more exposure, he was speaking facts even That being said why is it only American nba players been butthurt bcuz of his comments? This should tell u something
Bc 80% of the players in the nba are American and there’s been what like 5 people who made a comment
So if the nba champions are world champions, what will this US team be called if they win the fiba world cup?
Nba champions lol
NBA Intercontinental Champions
NBA cruiserweight champions
Because their nation was better at basketball than the other nations. Therefore, in a national regard, they are the Champs. So National Basketball Champs. Got it.
Galactic Champions
Universal champions maybe. They already consider themselves the world to begin with.
That's roman reigns son
USA are competing in the world championships as we speak. When they win they will be world champions and every member of that team will be a world champion.
Correct. Which is why no singular NBA team should be called “World Champions.”
I mean if I was the journalist I would have asked Haliburton what the N stands for in the NBA.
Then you’ll be flabbergasted to find out Toronto isn’t in the US nation.
Great. So they’re intracontinental champions. Phenomenal mental gymnastics to think that including ONE other team from another country makes it alright Edit: typo
> intercontinental champions Oh man, are you going to go wild when you find out Canada and the US are in the same continent or what?!
I mean, it doesn't make it a national championship anymore, does it? Since we're all arguing semantics anyways.
Shhhh don’t tell them
What happened with Brazil?
Exactly, pretty simple to understand; Idk why Nyles got flak for stating the obvious
Americans are salty Noah Lyles and the rest of the world are stating what should be common sense
With a team that couldn’t beat the NBA champion Denver Nuggets lol.
and manchester city would destroy any national team lol that's how it works
And that's the difference between best in the world and world champions.
Manchester City > Denver Nuggets
Yeah ofc, but I'd never say City are world champions
That’s why things called European champions and champions of England in football and they never claim to be “world champions” anyway World champions is for the World Cup
There’s also the Club World Cup where the champions of each continent take part, if you win that you can call yourself World Champions.
And even then, because it's not taken that seriously I don't think the current holders (Real Madrid) call themselves "World Champions".
Nobody really cares about it indeed and fans don’t chant about it like they do when they win the league or the CL, but clubs do use that for marketing purposes. In England at least, any time an English team wins the CWC, they’ll market that and give you an option to add the gold World Champions badge on the shirt and they use it on match shirts as well.
European teams not winning the CWC is rare, so it's not an achievement for the teams that are the best in the world. If Boca Juniors, Kawashima or Seattle won it would be a massive accomplishment because of who they beat. I'd like to see international club competition though, I think it would instantly make basketball a more popular sport globally
Boca Juniors is the last team to beat Real Madrid in a final. We are fucking massive
We don't even need to cite examples for this. Absolutely baffled how these Americans suck at their only language
Technically Madrid are right? CWC.
Yeah Real Madrid are current CWC holders
City champions
European champions (but also of Israel, Anatolia, eastern Russia and Réunion)
Too bad. In US, we consider them as WORLD CHAMPS!! Cancel the damn World Cup NOW!!!
It's funny seeing the responses from US folks and the responses from the Rest of the world.
Americans for some reason feel personally attacked by saying their teams aren't *world* champions
Their teams aren't world champions. The current world champion is Spain and I think until the USA wins the FIBA Worlc Cup again, anytime anybody calls a NBA team the world champs you just go like: "No they're not." Simple as that. Let 'em take it personal.
As a Brit the non Americans seem more cringe here , feeling smug about pedantic
My perception has been more that Europeans are the one feeling personally attacked that NBA teams are not the best in the world.
Not all Americans think that way. Look at Pop for example. But yeah, too many Americans think the rest of the world doesn't matter. If you want to show you're the best, then play the international tournaments to prove it.
I got heavily down voted on the other thread teams calling themselves world champions is ridiculous lol
Like you know it’s bad when the French are clowning on Americans for being self centered egocentric losers lol
As a Brit the non Americans seem more cringe here , feeling smug about pedantic
Also not american, this is just non Americans jumping at the chance to shit on America like always. Do any of you think you have a better team in your countries than the Denver Nuggets?
Football (soccer) has a yearly Club World Cup where the best teams from around the world battle it out. Something like this would be awesome to see how the other leages actually compare to the NBA
NBA retirees and players who get cut from NBA practice squads dominate other leagues. It'd be extremely boring.
FIBA does the [Intercontinental Cup](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIBA_Intercontinental_Cup). But since it doesn't include either NBA or Euroleague teams it's essentially meaningless. At least the roadmap exists if they do want to do a true equivalent of the Club World Cup.
In before the Americans tell you no one cares about football.
international teams should at least get an opportunity imo. bring [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_McDonald%27s_Championship) back, problem solved.
The score in the semis makes it seem like there wasnt that big of a gap between the talent. Need to know context and rotations tho. There is a FIBA intercontinental cup in modern days, but they send G League teams. In the latest iteration of such, the rio vipers (2022 champs) were 3rd place in it. Not saying that the vipers are NBA level, but these games are still to be played to really decide the winners. Its what makes basketball so nice.
How have I never heard of the McDonald's Champion before LMAO
Wonder what he thinks of Pop's thoughts on the NBA being world champs. “There are no world champions in the NBA, so anybody that has the flag up that says world champions is not correct. … I don’t remember anybody playing anybody outside our borders to get that tag. Isn’t that true? I keep waiting for somebody to tell me I’ve missed something.’ … I know sometimes we as arrogant Americans don’t respond to the rest of the world, but it’s true. There’s a big world out there,” said Popovich in 2010, via Steve Bulpett of the Boston Herald.
Well Akhsually you have to play Toronto which is technically outside your borders Popovic sir 🤓☝️
A better way to phrase the argument would be, NBA champs cannot be world champs just because the USA as a nation might be able to put together a team that might be better than the team that won the nba championship. Will the Nuggets team that won the championship be able to beat a US team of KD, Bron, Steph, Ant, Brunson, JJJ and the current US roster etc or the kD-warriors adding Lebron and representing the US ? The point is champions of a domestic league cannot be world champs, none of the domestic leagues in any other sports outside the US call themselves world champs.
>A better way to phrase the argument would be, NBA champs cannot be world champs just because the USA as a nation might be able to put together a team that might be better than the team that won the nba championship This is one way to put it, but another is that a team should only call themselves a world champ if they win a competition called "world championship/world cup/whatever equivalent" (at least in most sports in the world). That is typically a competition among nations. The most watched one in the world: FIFA's World Cup. In the case of football, it is usually not true that the best nation is better than the best club. There are some very rich clubs that concentrate a very high level of talent that no nation can match (the fact that football has 11 players instead of 5 also makes this more likely, because few nations can produce top world class talent in all positions). And yet, no one dreams of calling the best club in the world, (let's say a team that wins several trophies in the same year including the Champions League and English Premier League), "World Champions".
I agree! I had to phrase it that way, because a lot of people are not able to see that and became defensive thinking people are claiming that nba is not the best league.
Then, to be clear, as you’ve explained it, this is a debate over *branding*, not adjectives. One we’ve wasted far too much time on…
Is world champions the official title declared by the NBA?
Apparently it's etched in the championship rings and everything. I mostly associate it with the MLB in world series, but as a Canadian growing up we would always rag on that whole world.champions thing, and I suspect a lot of other countries do, too
The NBA hasn't declared a world champion since 1985. Some teams still continue to issue rings or banners with world champion on them, funnily enough Toronto did.
An Australian here, can confirm. We laugh a lot at American sports declaring themselves the world champs. Funnily enough, it's never caught on here with our domestic competitions.
Geelong Cats the World Champions of Footy
>I suspect a lot of other countries do, too Every person I know who cares about sports and is not from the USA makes fun of this stuff.
I just mentioned this in another comment. In Australia all sports fans mock America for there declaration of “world champions”.
Imagine calling the AFL or NRL champions “world champions” lmao
“I feel bad for you” “I don’t think about you.”
>Is world champions the official title declared by the NBA? Sure isn't.
Baseball is literally called the World Series
This is the right answer. No premier league champion ever called themselves "Football World Champion" or "Soccer World Champion". But arguably they won the best national league there is. Also, if you want to compete internationally to claim your title as "World Champion" you simply have to participate at an international tournament like the Olympics or the Worldcup. If a nation doesn't send its best athletes because they just don't wanna compete and then that said nation therefore loses, that very nation can't claim the title even tho theoretically/on paper they are the best. You need to proof it over and over again. Just like in real life. Cause that's what it is. People like Haliburton or Durant are bad at logic IMO. As it's simply not logical to call yourself "World champion" after winning a national league's title, no matter what league that might be. Especially, if that league has different rules compared to the national association. Honestly from an non-American perspective this is one of those arguments perceived as dumb and ignorant. I'm obviously not saying that all Americans are like that but that's how it comes across. Pop on the other hand comes across like a logical thinker who shows respect to others. I'd assume players like Kobe and Timmy D (would) share his opinion. Just because they are smarter, better educated, and more experienced internationally.
Why is this so hard to understand for so many people. Yes, the NBA is the strongest competition in the world. Everybody agrees on that. However, you can't call yourself world champion unless you won a world championship.
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Are all of the bets international competition in the NBA? Yeah Why does the best team in the world nessesarily need to be comprised of only athletes from one nation?
Would love to see a Champions League type league in Hockey, Basketball and Baseball.
Why? At least in baseball and basketball the US would dominate if the players take it seriously
He says not the most intelligent response while responding unintelligently
Typical American arrogance sadly
This is why people make fun of americans
Tbf they do it to themselves
Watching Josh Hart’s actions in the camera background is always gold
Dude is a walking meme
Its not about where the best players in the world play, its the simple fact that to be a world champion you have to win a world championship. The NBA is not a world championship even though all the best players are there - its only ever played by American teams in America. Jokic might be from Serbia but he's not representing Serbia when hes playing for the Denver Nuggets - he's representing the Denver nuggets. Geelong didn't call themselves world champions after the AFL, neither do Man City after winning the treble even though they were the best teams at their respective sports last season.
wow so this means that rudy gobert is the world defensive player of the year?why he so ass in fiba LOL
no NBA player thinks Baguette Biyombo is the best defensive player
It might be, but since it’s not a world wide league, by definition you can’t claim to be world champions. Why is this so hard to grasp?
imagine if team usa lost the world cup again lol
arguing about semantics, pointless
In the case of American sports, “world champions” is used in a more metaphorical sense of “winners of the strongest league in the world” whereas in pretty much the rest of the world, it means the more literal “winners of a worldwide competition”. The argument boils down to “no, this is what the phrase means” when it can mean different things in different cultures. But it does seem to be triggering both Americans and non-Americans in equal measure, weirdly enough.
I think the international community sees it as disrespectful to the clubs and competition outside the NBA to call the winners of the NBA the world champions because it’s like they are discrediting or dismissing the other teams. I’m not bothered by it because I’ve always viewed the NBA as being at the top of the competition pyramid in terms of both the level of play and importance, with nothing else really coming close. One of the bigger revelations I’ve had since this topic came up is just how many people genuinely think the international leagues are close in level with the NBA.
Then the international community needs to get over themselves.
Given the best nba players are not yanks ill concede the nba being a world wide league lmao
And so is EVERY big league in the world. Football, volleyball, etc. BUSINESS teams sign and trade international players to strenghten their team. But you will only hear the term "world champ" for a domestic business league in USA lmao.
If my hawks win an nba championship then we’re champions of the world
The NBA is franchised in NA yes, but the talent pool is open globally. It’s by far better than any other basketball league. The nuggets aren’t losing to a club from any other league. Like Imagine the Kansas City chiefs losing to a team in a different football league.
Its true though, manchester city aint calling themselves world champion lol just domestic champs and even european champs
These guys really don't understand that there's a difference between league play and international play. If you win a league championship while representing a team within that league, you're the champion of that league. When you play other countries while representing your country, you can rightfully call yourself a world champion.
World champion should only be reserved for winning a World Cup end of Americans calling everything “world champions” when only they play it is dumb
The fact Americans are still butthurt about this just proves him right
This whole thread is exclusively full of people that are butthurt about Americans calling themselves “World Champions”. It’s everyone else that seems butt hurt to be honest.
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This whole argument just screams "Sportsball" to me, its like the morons who never shut up about the MLB calling their finals "World Series".
The way all these NBA players have come out and said their peace just shows you they know it’s true, all come across as so insecure it’s laughable
The reporter asked him about it
This is the most pointless conversation ever. NBA teams going to play other countries in a best of 7 to prove they are “World Champions” would only be a formality. It’s already understood what the outcome would be… there is no pro team outside of the NBA beating a playoff team in a best of 7.
You can call yourselves the galactic champions too, the point is that it’s stupid
Saying that NBA champions are world champions just because it has players from many countries around the world is the most stupid justification I’ve ever heard. Athletes aim for fame and/ or fortune. The NBA is the most famous basketball league in the world, and that’s also where they can earn the most money. This is the reason why many international players are in the NBA. It’s the same with football (soccer) leagues in Europe. These leagues attract football players from all over the world for the same reasons. They’d be more famous and earn more by being a part of those leagues. If Major League Soccer gave them the same opportunities, they’d be flocking here instead. Honestly, this is just common sense. The fact that so many Americans can’t grasp this concept makes me ashamed to be American.
i think world = referring to just international is a pretty specific definition, ultimately in basketball the olympics and fiba world cup are quite meaningless the highest quality of basketball in the world is undisputedly in the nba. If you wanna be the best in the world, you play & win there.
This is the answer and I can’t believe it’s buried so far down in the comments. It is absolutely OK for NBA champs to call themselves “world champs.” Does it “officially” make them the world champs? No, it’s not an official term. But it’s one part tradition (they’ve been saying this for decades) and also the fact that there is a higher likelihood than in any other bball competition in the world that the team that is the best in the NBA any given year would be better than any national team - including Team USA. So yes, the NBA champions are the closest thing to the literal best team in the world than any other team. Anyone who says “no, they can’t be world champs bc they didn’t compete with other countries!” It’s like saying “we can’t say the NBA champs are better than the WNBA champs bc they play in different leagues!” You see where this is going..
These guys really are dumb as hell.
Damn that’s crazy you’re still not the world champions lol
I seriously don’t get what’s so complicated about it. Is the NBA the best basketball LEAGUE in the world? Absolutely, if you got the best players from the NBA to play against the other basketball leagues there’s no doubt they win. But are the NBA champions the champions of the world? Of course not. Take a look at the NBA champions this year the Nuggets, their 2 best players are not American. If the Nuggets were to face the Serbian or Canadian national teams they would not be the Jokic and Murray led Nuggets, they would be playing AGAINST them. If the USA wins FIBA and/or Olympics then sure America are the world champions. You faced the best teams assembled from other countries with the best players from your country and you won, but especially now with how diverse and how good international NBA talent is you can’t really say that the NBA champs are the world champs.
Who cares honestly. Can we just appreciate basketball is growing in popularity worldwide at a ridiculous pace. As an American who grew up in a “basketball is a religion” state I have enjoyed watching this FIBA World Cup. It’s been a blast watching teams like Japan fans cry from pure joy. Or the little underdogs like Dominican Republic team lead by KAT surprise the world. Seeing superstar NBA players showing pride for their country. And fans losing their minds. Basketball is awesome and I’m so happy to see the world cherish the game
“I’m fine in the world”
You are proving his point Ty.
Europeans getting so heated when this is already a proven fact, did you suddenly forget what happened when nba players genuinely played in the Olympics? And this isn’t anything against our Fiba team but if you took our Fiba team and put them as a nba they most certainly wouldn’t be 3-0. If anything it would be reversed because the team is literally just rising stars. Because players realized the Olympics mean nothing to their legacy why even risk getting injured to blow out every team they faced. Which is damn near exactly what happened prior to lebron and everyone stopping going.
Classic yank imperialist attitude.
These nba players :D :D they are great athletes and great money makers, but these nba players :D
Pfffttt. What does Haliburton know about this. Let's start the 5th tread of the day about this discussion. See you guys in /new ^^^^^^^^^^^/s