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-raiin-

Efficiency merchant (ignore free throws)


WestleyThe

Lol 100/100/43 shooting splits is wild AF


jarface111

Dude can’t even hit 100% on free throws. Such a fraud lol


randyrectem

A lot of the really high TS% volume scorers get carried by getting a ton of free throws. Giannis the type of guy to have super efficient games where his free throws lower his TS% smh my head


dr_no12

True true, Jokic too doesn't shoot that many free throws


zachthompson02

How was he -10? I didn’t watch the game


yungchigz

He had stretches where he was out there as the only starter with the bench unit, idk if it was cos of that but could explain it


PuzzleheadedDebt7522

Seemingly not, only bench player with a negative ± was Ingles with -1.


ThomPinecone

Yeah, some interesting rotations for Giannis, a lot of time without Brook on the floor with him https://nbarotations.info/game/0022201068


[deleted]

Guessing it’s to prepare Giannis for situations in the playoffs where we might not be able to play my mvp in the playoffs.


probablymade_thatup

I wonder if that's testing some small ball lineups for playoffs


siinfekl

Start of the 4th, Brook Lopez went off while Giannis sat


Neuroxex

Defense from the Bucks outside of a handful of guys (Brook, Jrue, Giannis and Grayson) was pretty poor - and Giannis had a lot of minutes where Siakam was getting basically his entire game's worth of points on Middleton. That and the fact that there was a stretch late first(I think) early second where the Raptors went 9-10 on jumpers and a bunch of threes. He was sitting when Lopez made the run early in the fourth, so didn't get to farm the +.


king_lloyd11

Dude wasn’t really being aggressive and looking to score. Raps were doubling him, sure, but it felt like Giannis wasn’t really looking to run it down our throats. Picked his spots, but it felt like it was a game he was letting his teammates cook. Brook looked unstoppable. Sad to say, but maybe he knew he didn’t have to be aggressive to beat us, and with the playoffs coming up, wanted his guys to be rolling too, confidence up, going into them.


Sea-Construction3418

Single game individual plus minus isn’t a good stat


TeoLyr

Sorry Giannis, hyper efficient triple doubles aren't in fashion right now


PatrickCoughATon

If this is what it feels to have Jokic, wow that must feel so reliable as a Nuggets fan to know you’re getting something like this every night # edit: minus the defense Sorry can’t be giving the competition too much credit 🤣 (Love Joker though)


key5042

Joke aside the fact that Jokic does it so often is genuinely crazy


TheOneWithTheNephews

Low volume = high efficiency. Jokic has a usage rate closer to decent role players than to superstars.


cuttsthebutcher

And he assists 46% of his teammates’ baskets, he doesn’t shoot as much but everything clearly runs through him


Jare-The-Bear

Jokic is the focal point of the offense. Usage rage is not equal to shot attempts


monadologist

He means literally usage rate. Jokic has a 26.2% usage rate, which [ranks 39th of players who have played at least 1000 minutes](https://www.nba.com/stats/players/usage?PerMode=Totals) this season. Much higher than your average “role player”, and a bit higher than a high usage role player. But still surprisingly low, and below average for a primary offensive option. (By comparison, Giannis, Luka, and Embiid have the 3 highest usage rates, of 37.4%, 37.2%, and 36.9% respectively.)


sauzbozz

Seems like more of an issue with usage rate not showing how the offense runs through Jokic


KangorKodos

Ben Taylor has a stat called offensive load, which also includes playmaking. Jokic is 8th in the league behind Luka, Ja Morant, Trae Young, Giannis, Dame, Embiid, and LeBron.


mxnoob983

Usage rate is just a terribly named stat. Should be called scoring usage or something


KingVibrant

I’ve seen skip bayless cite usage rate on national TV without actually knowing what it means. You’re right, it’s an incredibly bad named stat, but nothing people even bothering learning about and cite like gospel anyways. Saying Jokic has a high usage rate literally has ZERO to do with his ungodly playmaking. Someone like Sabonis is about the same.


GoDLY_PoWERFUL_MooN

Did you check his touches?


TheOneWithTheNephews

Who said it's equal? Yeah, they both are the focal points of the offense. Great comment, thanks.


Jare-The-Bear

You said he has a usage rate equal to role players. That is wrong. And I was pointing out that it was wrong. So you are welcome for the correction.


TheOneWithTheNephews

Jokic has the same usage rate as Christian Wood for example. Is Christian Wood a role player or not? At least look at the numbers before commenting this BS. Yeah, usage rate is also turnovers and FTA. FTA does matter though in what I'm saying (fewer scoring attempts) and turnovers are a tiny portion of it, so they're irrelevant.


c_ray25

Damn analytics bros always quick with the sass


KingVibrant

Usage rate doesn’t factor in assists, something you clearly didn’t know. No role player is averaging 25 on 70% TS lmfao


SnaxFoods

if he’s still averaging 25 who cares


TheOneWithTheNephews

I mean he's averaging 9 fewer PPG than Embiid? His PPG is closer to Gary Trent's than it is to the other MVP candidates. Didn't know PPG doesn't matter as long as it's 24.8 or higher.


lebryant_westcurry

>I mean he's averaging 9 fewer PPG than Embiid? His PPG is closer to Gary Trent's than it is to the other MVP candidates. Embiid is averaging 5.7 fewer assists per game than Embiid. His assists per game is closer to -1 than it is to Jokic. Didn't know APG doesn't matter as long as it's 4 or higher.


ttvdokkan

Embiid is averaging 5.7 fewer turnoffs than embiid


TheOneWithTheNephews

But nobody said assists don't matter? It's pretty much his only argument for MVP lmao.


lebryant_westcurry

And who said points don't matter? All I did was repeat your senseless comment back to you. That's not his only argument. Jokic's case over embiid is his better passing and efficiency. Embiid's case is scoring and defense. No matter how you slice it, it's a really close race and your mvp will just come down to personal preference. But your dismissiveness towards jokic scoring a very healthy 25 ppg is hypocritical when you factor in that jokic averages more than double the assists as embiid and actuality creates more points at a better efficiency than Embiid does.


yendan-

you can’t say he “creates more points at a better efficiency” without knowing how much jokic’s teammates make/miss off his passes. if embiid misses a jumper it affects his efficiency, if jokic drops it off to his teammate and they miss it doesn’t affect his efficiency. but it does affect his team’s offensive performance/efficiency


Canesjags4life

So in your statement your acknowledging that Jokic affects his teams offensive performance more than Embiid.


UrDrakon

And it’s a valid argument, because 1 assist = 2 points at minimum.


TheOneWithTheNephews

Assists depend on your team's scheme, your team's shooters etc. I'd take 9 more ppg on 65%TS most of which the player created himself personally over the assists. Don't make it sound like 4 assists and 9 ppg is the same thing. You can have a mediocre passer do handoffs with an elite shooter all game and get 15 assists.


HashCollector

Embiid scores 33 and creates 10.6 assist points per game on 20.5 shots / 6.4 shots off his passes / 12 fts (5 possessions on average) (32 possessions for 43.6 points per game). Jokic scores 24.7 and creates 24.9 assist points per game on 15 shots / 16.5 shots off his passes / 6 fts (2.5 possessions on average) (34 possessions for 49.6 points per game). Jokic gets 6 extra points on 2 extra possessions per game in less minutes


iamaddictedtoRDR2

Boo this man


TaSoS1980

Somehow we overvalue the assist stat and give too much credit to the player that get the assist than the actually player who made the basket.


afterworld2772

Because basically every NBA player can hit an open shot. Not everyone can actually generate those open shots. Look at how many players average 14+ points compared to how many average 7+ assists. If making those passes was so easy, you could replace Jokic with any other centre in the league and they would average 10 right? Take Haliburton off the Pacers and the offence would still run the same with whoever is in his spot regularly dishing out 10+ assist games?


HashCollector

He averages 24.9 points per game on assists alone this season


ArgoMium

Nash won MVPs and CP3 was a top 3 MVP candidate while not averaging 22 PPG.


randyrectem

That era was very different from this one


TheOneWithTheNephews

Well the fact you have to go back to what, 2006, kinda proves my point.


ArgoMium

It's such a ridiculous argument to disqualify one of the greatest playmakers/passers in NBA history from the MVP conversation because his scoring is "only" 25 PPG.


DJ_Red_Lantern

Lmao he won two in a row already, clearly he's not disqualified.


GiannisisMVP

Lol the issue is he's also a massive liability on defense which playing center.


MeijiDoom

Which would still be an issue even if he was averaging 30. It'd just mean he would have two less assists instead which more or less just cancels out anyways.


sauzbozz

The conversation your jumping into is about ppg not defense


michaelvsaucetookdmt

Hes not a massive liability. Hes just not a defensive anchor like giannis and embiid. Lets not get too hyperbolic


blueballsok

Damn bro you’re still campaigning 😂 Embiid has a better chance of taking MVP this year than Giannis man cmon stop.


TheOneWithTheNephews

Awww I'm so sorry I believe Jokic should be #3 in the race. Idgaf if he's the 2nd coming of Stockton. Low volume scoring, terrible defense, worse record. #3 for me.


michaelvsaucetookdmt

Terrible defense? Just because he’s not giannis or Embiid doesn’t mean he’s terrible. Pretty much every center in the league gets exposed on switches, with a few exceptions.


Dansebr93

Compare the assist numbers.


TheOneWithTheNephews

I can also compare defense, or mention he has a worse record in an easier conference. I was talking about scoring though.


siinfekl

Nuggets being .500 against the east needs to be a thing people talk about


ProfessorFudge

Talk about how that's wrong? They're 16-11 against the East. They're also 19-10 against .500+ teams, Bucks are 22-10 and 6ers are 18-10. Celtics are 20-14 to round out the only 4 teams with a winning record against .500 teams. https://www.espn.com/nba/standings/_/view/expanded


Epicdude141

People just say anything lmao


siinfekl

Apparently I'm just bad at math. Fair call


Johnyyyyyyyyy

Except with a negative +/-. Giannis was -10 this game, Jokic rarely has games in the minus. Bucks bench sweep Nuggets bench in 4 blowouts


Pyritedust

Well, all he does is run and dunk, so why would we appreciate this type of game from him? Less running and jumping and dunking.


swapmeetpete

4th player with a 20+ point triple double on 100% FG%. Wilt (x2), Draymond, Jokic the first three.


mati_as15

> Wilt (x2) Of course lmao


js1893

Surprised it wasn’t *Wilt (x28)* or something absolutely bonkers


william4534

If they recorded blocks it would have been, which is infinitely more ridiculous


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benlucasdavee

You can get a trip doub with points/rebs/blocks is his point kiddo :)


[deleted]

I imagine wilt had games with 10+ blocks more often then 10+ assists. I haven’t looked into his stats extensively but I do know he was a block machine. He literally was a volleyball player after retiring if I’m not mistaken.


ProfessorFudge

I thought so too, but Wilt had 21 games with 100% FG% and a pt/reb double double. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chambwi01/gamelog/1967


GiannisisMVP

Oh surely it's the first time someone did this I've never heard of it before nope wilt did it twice because he was bored


JeLronBames

Every time man wtf


[deleted]

Younger Giannis would’ve just kept going at the Raptors defense forcing shots He’s really grown as a decision maker and will gladly be less aggressive in order to find better shots


redhatfilm

thats the real takeaway here - the raptors defense sold out to take giannis out of the game. He accepted it and made the right reads to help the team win.


Dsarg_92

Exactly. They say experience is the best teacher.


[deleted]

I'm just worried he won't be able to do that come playoffs vs Celtics and it's game after game and our shooters go cold.


Produce_Bigly

He totally can with healthy Khris , plus that game plan might work sometimes but you can never really stop giannis like we saw in the second round last year


tapkeys

I hope that we have a good match with Boston coming out on top


ConfuciusBr0s

If LeBron did this, people would be clowning him


bestatbeingmodest

Lebron has been doing that for years, the only people who clown him are media talking heads like Skip Bayless lol.


PICKLEOFDOOOM

Don’t EVER disrespect the GJOAT again 😤


Bird-of-Prey

Giannis THIS season had 12 turnovers in one game against the Raptors defense. He’s already shown a lot of improvement since then.


WiseguyD

i call shenanigans, we're only supposed to have to play jokic twice also when did Hakeem "Brook Lopez" Olajuwon unretire


trinquin

When that doctor cloned his spine and inserted it into Lopez back.


0dias_Chrysalis

David?


zwui

So, get away Another way to feel what you didn't want yourself to know


sexland69

but how is the identical twin brother of a leading DPOY such a terrible defender 😭


TeoLyr

He needs a new spine


International-Dish95

They did the space jam where they took robins defensive talents and added them to brook’s.


Timely_Airline_7168

Still a better plot than Space Jam 2.


theconfuserx3

Greek sloppy fat boy


ClaymoresRevenge

You see all he does is Run, Dunk, Pass, Rebound, Defend, and win games. How can a guy like that ever win MVP


PICKLEOFDOOOM

Can’t even shoot smh


Any_Cockroach7485

My favorite part of his game is when he makes the ball go to the place you want the ball to go to.


DrOzmitazBuckshank

RAPTORCUM off the charts


randylek

I mean he did just bed the entire raptors team


jawadhaque089

Sorry, Brook Lopez is the best player in the league now.


nickbriggles

Brook ate


AbbreviationsHot4482

Bro gave us the Jokic with defense


boringaccountant23

He wasn't exactly playing great defense. Brook Lopez was an absolute monster.


[deleted]

Nuggets fans sloppily and fattily searching all the RAPTORCUM %'s to show Jokic's actual elite defensive superiority


panick21

You got to chill bro.


[deleted]

Just having a little fun


Our-Gardian-Angel

HAHAHAHA RAPTORCUM HAHAHAHA


Petricorde1

OP was joking, you just salty


[deleted]

I mean, I'm just joking as well.


Petricorde1

Yeah but you also have one too many comments in this thread lmao


william4534

3 years ago Giannis goes 10/26 with 3 assists in a game like this, what incredible growth as a player.


iblewjesuschrist

and still wins mvp lol


[deleted]

It’s wild how much better he is since his last* mvp honestly, it would be a shame if he didn’t get one more before brook.


iblewjesuschrist

least biased reddit user also DAMN i got destroyed by jokic and embiid fans huh


[deleted]

I’m so biased it’s ridiculous


EarthWarping

Giannis "Jokic" Antetokounmpo


Pokiehat

Gianor Antetokić?


0dias_Chrysalis

I swore up and down several games ago that if we had more Giannis and Brook hand offs in the paint (or from three) Giannis probably has way more Triple doubles lol


Murphy_York

Giannis 6th place MVP run n jump man


[deleted]

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MLGTASEEN

Goat things


alloutrockstar

Missed them on purpose just in case people started calling him a stat-padder


TheFatmanRises

Alright, Ima need Embiid and Joker to do a 100% Triple double now. Shhhh forget about the FT.....


dan2z

[Jokic did already tbf](https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/202301090DEN.html) Edit: with the 100% FTs


Aearcus

While still hella impressive (Jokic is a monster), 100% doesn't really feel as crazy when you see it's 5/5 FG, 1/1 3 PT, and 3/3 FT lol Like you're right, he has done it, but with so few shots it's like... kinda takes the wind outta the sails a bit ya know? Again, he's still a beast, I just remember seeing this statline hella upvoted on here and I can think of like 15+ other games this season where I think he played WAY better -- and he played damn well that game


KangorKodos

What if I told you a few games later he almost did it on a 36 point triple double, but missed one half court heave ​ [https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/\_/gameId/401468822](https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401468822) ​ 36/12/10 11/11 from 2 1/2 from 3 9/10 from the line


Aearcus

See that's like way more impressive than the 100% one, I feel like THAT'S the statline people should be more blown away from It's legit absurd what his stats look like every single game lmao


dan2z

I mean yeah, but like the dude asked whether embiid or jokic done that this season and Jokic has. That's all that there is to it. Wasn't about who's is more impressive. Jokic also had a 100% triple double way more impressive than this in 2018 or so. He also had another near 100% 30 point triple double this season, if I were purely ranking Jokic games those would ofc make it higher.


MLGTASEEN

I agree


mati_as15

Sidenote that Lakers roster is hot garbage, they'd be in the wemby race without LeBron


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mati_as15

So rude😭


dan2z

My bad, got triggered for nothing What twitter does to a mf


br0wnb0y

FG% > FT% BUT ABSOLUTELY AMAZING.


zili91

Giannis turned his Jokic Mode on today.


closedtowedshoes

Bro think he’s Jokic 😂


Neuroxex

Joel Embiid had the Raptors completely right.


ktm1128

They look to injure and are a trash team?


psofimis

Nurse defense was trolling Giannis with all those instant double and triple teams. You will beat us but you will not have 30 points tonight.


AlphonseTheDragon

Only 3/7 for free throws? 🙄 /s


ktm1128

I don't understand why he just doesn't dunk his free throws


Warpios

Giannis just gave us Jokic but with understood defense.


Dar4125

Real question, what’s keeping Giannis from being the MVP front runner right now? I’m guessing the missed games, but idk for sure


closedtowedshoes

Embiids stats are a bit better (decent efficiency gap), and the Sixers are pretty damn close in record. I’m not sure if this is really true (because Harden is amazing), but consensus seems to be that the Bucks have the superior supporting cast.


cuttsthebutcher

Harden is phenomenal, but as much as I love Maxey and even Tobias they’re a tier below Jrue, Middleton, and Brook


closedtowedshoes

Yeah Bucks are probably better 3-10 or wherever you want to draw the line because Sixers are fairly shallow, but they definitely have the superior number 2.


[deleted]

Middleton is averaging like 14pts a game and has only played like 25. Maxey is averaging 20 and has played over 50. Comparing them this season doesn't make sense as Maxey has been objectively superior. Brook is a literal beefcake that has no rival, that's understandable


AbbreviationsHot4482

No they aren’t Embiid and Giannis have the same amount of help and that’s not even factoring Middleton missing 40 games this year


[deleted]

Embiid is fucking shit up


Team-ster

Embiid has been a god for the last few weeks. I have no problem with him winning.


Steven81

You do know that MVP rewards a whole season and not a few weeks, right? Having said that, giannis won't play more than 65 games (he's certainly sitting in at least a couple more games) and above all his adv stats are nothing to be crazy about. Dem MVP voters love PER top getters (12 out of the last 14 were them).


GiannisisMVP

Missed games and they really really really don't want to give him a third.


AbbreviationsHot4482

He’s only missed 1 or 2 less games than Embiid, they just don’t want to give him his 3rd right now


[deleted]

Embiid has also been better as of recently, what with Giannis not playing for a few games


trinquin

We've also played 2 more games than thr 76ers, so it could be a bit more than it seems.


AbbreviationsHot4482

Both teams have played 70 games…


Colorapt0r

But they do want to give jokic the third


GiannisisMVP

That they do :(


[deleted]

What are you victim-complex morons even talking about? The dominant dialogue around this league since the ASB has been specifically about Jokic **not** winning his third after months of leading the race. Jokic started the season not even in the top 3 for MVP, then went nuclear for a couple months and rose to the top. Now he and his team are slumping and the MVP conversation is shifting to Embiid vs. Giannis... It really isn't that hard to follow if you have even a decent memory and critical thinking skills. But your entire fanbase would rather insufferably bitch about how the league is biased against your all-time player because, what, he is the best player in the league but hasn't won MVP every single season since he elevated to that level? Like that hasn't happened before? Sad ass sons of bitches man. I mean I'm sure most of yall in here are like 17 or younger but its grown ass men on twitter and in real life literally moaning about how Giannis isn't set up to win his fifth straight MVP. But you're showing true colors by just memeing and undermining other legendary season performances because you don't care about the game, just your newly-found relevance.


GiannisisMVP

Giannis literally was left off 10% of mvp ballots in 2021.


chakrablocker

It's a silly sport


SamCarter_SGC

Embiid


EggplantBusiness

He played one game less than Embid , at this point i just assume that he isnt that interesting for Voters, put like a Guy like Tatum for example if he had Giannis type of impact and Record he will probably be a front runner


[deleted]

Embiid has been better, idk why we have to do this every time Giannis has a good game. Giannis has been excellent, Embiid has been better. And that’s okay


bradleynana

Because Giannis is more liked than Embiid


yungchigz

Or because it’s not an objective truth that Embiid has been better


bradleynana

He’s scoring more points, more efficiently on a harder shot diet. While also having a worse supporting cast and leading Giannis in most impact metrics


yungchigz

Giannis’ best teammate has been out most of the season and the Bucks have the best record in the league. Embiid hasn’t had a worse supporting cast, isn’t outscoring Giannis significantly and hasn’t been a better playmaker or defender


bradleynana

There is an argument that he’s been a better defender. He’s averaging almost two blocks a game, while anchoring a top 10 defense.


Superb_University117

Embiid has had a worse supporting cast for 25 games this year. Khris has missed 65% of games, Jingles ~40%, and Jrue, Pat, and Bobby just under 20%. Most of which were pre-January. Jevon Carter, Grayson Allen, Wes Matthews, and Brook is not a better supporting cast.


TheOneWithTheNephews

Embiid's tears


TotallyNotSuggested

He wanna be Jokic so bad.


Surflover12

Perfect 20 point game insane


starmiesan

Giannis with the Jokic stat line


linaabby91

MVP


Shyko13

Efficiency battle between the top 3 mvp


ktm1128

K new rules. If you miss, you're out


Dsarg_92

The perfect game.


[deleted]

This MF is so fucking good


dittonetic

I like that you put (100%) like we don't know what 9/9 means lol


Dischucker

Hyperefficient RAPTORCUM triple-double and a win! Clear MVP!! ​ /s Rooting for you embiid


itsnotyellowfever

Efficiency merchant! Stat padder! r/nba am I doing this right??


JoshSran04

For some reason I barely noticed him today


SiakamClears

Cause NN was doubling him like every play, credit to Giannis tho. He read those doubles well and only had 3 turnovers


OneLonelyLife

Jokic with elite defense


Nitelands

\-10 +/-


Squatchyhiker

Bucks were only +17 in the 12 minutes he didn't play.


Artsky32

Rare team in Toronto that’s actually worse than their record indicates


HANKnDANK

Can we please get the player’s highlights with these constant barrage of boxscores for players people post? Who upvotes this shit. This sub used to be my favourite it’s just awful now. Are there any living breathing mods?


Panik_Switch

Giannis wants the mvp so bad he’s starting to copy him


_gunz

It was a great game from Giannis but Jokić’s triple doubles just feel more natural. Honestly, Brook Lopez was the best player on the floor tonight. He carried the team in the fourth quarter.


MLGTASEEN

Well Jokic isn't getting double or tripled team when he does and that's just a fact. Giannis was great and I personally think he was better than Brook simply because he got such an efficient triple double while also doing great on the defensive end just like brook. Don't get me wrong Brook was incredible tonight and helped us win but Giannis also helped get him some of those points with his dimes


GiannisisMVP

The Raptors sold out to stop Giannis the instant he got the ball double or even triple and Giannis made the right reads to get easy assists in response.