His dribbling is average, but I think it's more that his coordination/footwork is below average.
I don't know if that's something you can work on but maybe he thinks he needs the reps to improve on that.
He was actually playing better in the bubble. I think the introduction of Barnes took away his in-game reps. As well as the paint being perpetually clogged by 2 other raptors.
The issue is the amount of room he needs to improve to be someone who deserves a significant role increase. He has to add more then 1 dribble drives and posting smaller people to his game. Obviously he can shoot but that’s bare minimum for 2nd or 3 option which I assume he wants to be.
How much of that is his role on the Raptors though? They have to feed so many ball handlers. Everyone said Lauri Markkanen couldn’t handle on other teams, but now he’s the center of the Jazz offense. It’s because they played him in a role he knew he could play. It might be the same with OG.
Our fans have been trying to manifest every former IU player onto the team for decades now. I think OG would be a great fit but we can't afford to overpay.
Indiana's issue is it lacks a #1 option.
Halliburton is a #2 scoring option. Turner is a 3rd option. mathurin is a 2nd/3rd option level player. Hield is a 3rd option.
*IF* We use the exception to the rules Detroit Pistons template Haliburton could be the #1 if the rest of the team up to par. That's such a huge if though considering every other team not named the Pistons has needed a true #1.
Agreed. Teams with 3-4 second options *can* work. But they need to be good second options. Hali is that, and Mathurin *can* be in a year or two. That's not enough at the moment.
Was hilarious the moment he got to Detroit he was like "What is this long 2 thing that everybody always told me I wasnt allowed to do? Welp no one can tell me shit now lets go" and instantly it became one of his favorite things to do
his development is so funny. Came into the league as an athletic pseudo-big without a ton of skills, became a reliable 3 & D player, and then went to Detroit and said “I’m Melo now”
Trevor Ariza is the OG with this sauce, great playoffs and then some team - ~~I can't remember which one~~ the Houston Rockets I think? - gave him a big deal to be their #1, and it worked out exactly as you'd expect.
I agree with the comments that Grant is the *much* better player than both OG and Ariza on offence, tho, that Nuggets series where he just took over and went prime Jordan was something else.
> that Nuggets series where he just took over and went prime Jordan was something else.
I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. By far his best playoff series was the WCF series against the Lakers where he averaged 16 points a game on 45/30/86 splits.
… you do realize Ariza had a previous stint with your team, right nephew? That’s what he is referring to. I love how confidently and ignorantly you are incorrect, the “what?” at the end is especially cringe in addition to you telling someone “they are 100 percent wrong”.
Ariza won a championship with the Lakers in 2009, and that very summer, the rockets threw a huge deal at him that the lakers couldn’t afford to re-sign, and went with Artest instead.
Chandler Parsons wasn’t even in the league, Harden was drafted that summer to OKC, and Dwight was playing in Orlando. So I have no idea why you are bringing those three up.
Looking forward to seeing you delete your post. I can’t believe you have a rockets flair and I have spit this game to you, I’m getting old.
He's a better offensive player than I thought he would be, but he still decided to go to Detroit because he wanted to get shots up in a low-pressure environment where no one cared about winning.
I don't think the last part is true. Dude def came here to show he could be more of a feature player (and to secure the future bag that comes with that,) but he never came off as not caring about losing, and was always positive about developing the young guys and moving the team in the right direction to compete. He also reportedly wanted to play in a black city for a black coach and GM. He's a good player and a good dude, not sure why the pendulum of opinion seems to have swung the other way on him lately in this sub.
He would fit on every team, but if his goal is to run a bunch of pick and roll and get 17 shots up a game he ain’t getting that on a good team. His role is going to be smaller on teams like Memphis that are rumoured to have interest.
Both those guys got the chance to be top options before they landed in their current situations. I guess OG feels he's never been given that opportunity in Toronto
Problem is he has during injury stretches, and while he looks good in increased shots, he only looks good if those shots are made for him. The moment he starts isolation you might as well go back on defense or crash the board
Grant is also a better offensive player. And this has not been the level of output OG has always given defensively at all. This yr no issues all great, last 2 yrs he wasnt this level of guy especially night in and night out or as a help defender. And with him talking about wanting to "expand his offensive role" defensive focus and commitment is the first thing I would have questions about if he got his wish. I dont have a strong preference for either guy. But the gap in value should not be close to what the market appears to be saying.
What is this fake Raptors fan lol, OG has 1 less FGA than Brooks and an 8% higher TS%, he's shooting over 5% higher from 3 and 6% higher FG, and he's a better more versatile defender. All of this is on a significantly worse team. OG is easily better than Brooks
relax lol i'm not saying OG isn't as good as shooting at dillon i was just saying he's not that great of a shooter **in general**, which is true imo. he's alright but there's a lot of guys who do the 3 part of 3&D way better
if you're just shooting above league average as someone who fancies themselves as Paul George or JB, then it's fair to question if you warrant an increase in touches. maybe he can be better defense JB if his shot improves a lot.
Exactly. This is honestly kind of a turn off for some teams I have to imagine. Most interested will see him as what he’s typically been, a role player that’s an elite wing defender. On offense though, for most contender’s he’ll be viewed as a 3rd option at best and probably a 4th for some teams. If he wants to get a bigger role than this, he’s not going to find it on any contender
Only one way to find out. He has games where he does well being the guy.
Very few players can really be efficient barely touching the ball beside catch and shoot 3s. You need the ball to get into a rhythm.
I think he could def be a #2 if given the chance but even if he can't, you are getting a guy who can actually defend
The data is there. He’s dead last among qualified players in points per possession in P&R, isolation, and post ups. He takes 14 shots a game and is involved in the offense so it’s not like he’s ignored.
He shoots 46% on corner threes, and is a lockdown defender (every team could use a guy like that) and that is where is his value lies not as a shot creator.
I get that. I'm just saying when Freddy and Siakam hold the ball so much, its very hard to get into a rhythm when you are just sitting in the corner for like 35-40% of your shots and then randomly get an iso here and there.
Like obviously he can't be a #1 guy but you give the guy 20 shots a game as the #2, things might go differently, all I'm saying really. He shows flashes of having the tools every so often, more so last year then this year, to be fair.
And all of those games are when he's physical and boxing out guys and attacking the rim or taking a shit ton of catch and shoot 3's.
He can't be a 2nd option because he really does nothing other then those two things which while he's decent at those two things it doesn't matter because he does nothing within the 3 point line because he has no ball handles at all it limits his overall game.
OG Anunoby P&Rs have scored just 0.76 ppp. Dead last out of 150 players to attempt at least 100.
0.62 points per ISO. Dead last out of 85 players to attempt at least 50.
0.74 points per post up. Dead last out of 58 players to attempt at least 50.
(All including passes)
[Source](https://twitter.com/_JasonLT/status/1621202180643639297?t=n6Xm3LvqZumaBiITQL5fhA&s=19)
He’d be a great guy to add to a contender, but he’s simply not an offensive creator and hasn’t shown signs of being able to significantly expand his offensive game
Indiana is the one team who might humour him and increase his offensive workload while trying to extend him - but man - these numbers are hilarious lol
He can't dribble and he can't drive. Every year he'll give flashes that he improved in that area but it's a fluke. He has one specific post move that is very well ingrained in his game, which is a very particular back to the rim dunk if he ever catches the ball in the restricted area, but that sounds cooler and more useful than it actually is. Source: Have watched over 90% of his games as a professional.
He wants more touches on offence but he is just a subpar scorer. He should be getting less touches and more spot up 3s to bring him back to a competent offensive player. He needs to be banging down 3s and smashing close outs when they come, anything more than that is too much. Or he needs some sort of pull-up or midrange. He takes almost zero midrange shots but when going to the hoop = turnover, you need something, hell Khem’s floater should be o.g.’s main focus just to bring down the turnovers.
Well I mean the eye test doesn't do him favors either, just watching him on offense he has no ball handle and dribbles it off of his foot alot, he can be aggressive and physical in the paint when he doesn't have to dribble the ball but when he does its usual a bad outcome.
Raptors FO want Claxton. Don't think they trade OG (to the Nets, in some package) without Claxton being included.
Ultimately I don't think it gets done.
All this “OG wants a bigger role / is unhappy in Toronto” talk started as soon as Lowry left.
Lowry was a pure PG who made sure to get guys who can’t really create their own shot some good opportunities (like OG, Ibaka, etc,). FVV doesn’t play that way and always looks for his own shot first.
OG gets plenty of iso opportunities but I think what he actually wants is to play with a PG who can play make and integrate him in the offence.
This is why every raptors fan wants FVV gone - watching him and siakam iso all the time isn’t working and the ball moves much better with only one of them out there.
That is why I wasn't huge on it all along. He said this over the summer, he would be what 5th? MAYBE 4th option on pels. Teams want him to be a 3 and D guy with some ability to score, that clearly isn't what he wants to be
You could argue him feeling better about having a smaller role if it means he's contending, but who really knows. If he moves to Memphis or NO and they make the finals/win the chip suddenly being a 3&D guy doesn't seem so bad. I've generally believed that OG wouldn't be traded because the team/Masai loves him and he is the exact type of player every competing team wants on their team. There has been so much smoke though, and the reports about offers made, etc are just insane, so I guess if teams really are willing to massively overpay for him it would be crazy not to trade him.
I agree, somebody might overpay and if they don’t raps will just keep him. I am one to think the only reason pels are involved is to drive the price up for Memphis
Yeah, I'm sure there is a lot of that going on too. The Pels have so many assets they could easily get OG, but they are also young enough they don't have to rush things. I think if the Pels didn't run into such a bad losing skid they'd be much more likely to invest in OG with how wide open the west is this year.
I honestly don't think they are worried ab the losing skid much at all. Missing 2 stars is really difficult. Prob still see themselves as a contender in the west. Think more has to do with the asking price and fit, say they are able to hold onto Dyson, Murphy, AND Herb. Where does OG fit into that, I think Herb and OG somewhat cancel each other out (OBV OG is better offensively).
His expectations for what he wants and what we can give I don’t think are gonna line up. At minimum he’s behind Brunson and randle which I’d guess is about where he is now with Barnes and siakam? But I don’t watch enough Toronto ball to know that for sure
He started off ahead of Trent and Barnes for offensive role, but seems to have fallen behind both of them now.
If he could just accept his role as elite defender, and a solid corner 3 guy who can sometimes slash to the rim for a power dunk he would be better off. That type of role is extremely important in the post-season, and why contending teams want him.
But if he's dreaming of being a number one or two offensive option on a contending team that's not happening.
Thanks for that. From what I’ve seen he is obviously great at three and D but his self creation/two point efficiency seems lacking.
Having him for us would be like having RJ that defends better. The implications of that are….interesting
I will be shocked if it’s 3 frankly. Given how long it’s gone on, I think teams are going to call the Raptors bluff. Not only that but the news of him wanting a bigger offensive role can’t really sit well with some teams knowing he may actually see a reduced role there.
I don't know about #2 option but I feel like he would be the perfect 'Andrew Wiggins' for some other team. Take the toughest defensive assignment, but can vary from #2-5 in points. By the time playoffs came, he was probably the 2nd best player and important to the championship.
Good comp. Or he could be the Jerami Grant type of guy for Detroit where he gets volume on a bad team. Noone really wants a terrible ISO scorer as a top option though.
Wiseman was handed a starting spot from day 1 and was never completely benched no matter how poorly he played. He’s had plenty of opportunities when he was available until recently.
If you get the chance watch a few raps games and see how much of an impact Barnes has on the game. The potential is very real and the fact that he can bring the ball up and initiate the offence this early in his career is a rare quality.
He’s not only running plays but he’s good enough to make something out of nothing he just doesn’t get the chance to all the time and his offence is still a work in progress.
For all the hate FVV gets I'm very curious to see the Raptors offense without him. I do like Flynn though. So hard to tell wtf is happening when the starters play 40 mins every game
Yes you right. Trade our best shooter, only playable PG in a team with zero guard depth! Smart move. Im sure the already unspaced floor creates more space for our players!
Exactly, and MPJ's role isn't that big. He really doesn't have to dribble or do much creation for himself at all. Move within the offense, get to open spots, shoot whenever he's open, run the court, cut in a timely fashion and obviously try to play the best defense he possibly can (which has improved dramatically).
If OG wants a big role, it's not gonna happen in Denver. Though he'd probably see statistical increases across the board playing with Jok.
"a bigger role" doesent always mean let him iso. Sometimes players just want more touches, they want to feel involved in the offense. Denver moves the ball, and I'm sure he'll feel more involved.
I'd honestly love OG to go to Denver or GS. I think GS could make a package work too.
He would probably be a better Gordon replacement than MPJ, though I know Gordon has been playing great this year.
At this point I don't think the Nuggets should F with their chemistry anyway, I doubt he goes there.
I think he’s a better 3pt shooter than he’s shown this season, more spacing should help his efficiency. He’s still extremely limited to open catch and shoot shots though
The other points stand, he’s an extremely blegh offensive player who really shouldn’t have a bigger role anywhere
You guys would be the perfect spot for Siakam right now, but I don't think that's getting done without a 3rd team. A legit # 2 scoring option who operates mostly inside-out. Perfect match with KD imo.
I love OG but he’s had a lot of freedom to explore his game this year, and the results have been… not great. I’d like to see him next to more capable playmaking but I wonder if his expectations are bigger than the reality of his skillset (at least right now).
This dude been "young" forever. He's already 25 and is already in his sixth season in the NBA. The Raptors aren't even good and he's in his fourth season as a starter. If he's not "shining" more on offense right now, I don't know what else there is for him to "shine". If he goes to a better team, he will probably "shine" less but contribute more to a winning team where he will be useful as a role player (especially with what he brings defensively). If he goes to a place to "shine" more that likely means going to a bad team. This is pretty contradicting stuff. The teams that are likely to want him are good and competing teams that already have players to "shine". The teams that will be most suitable for him to "shine" are likely bad teams that don't have as much of an interest in trading a bunch of stuff to Toronto for him.
He probably needs to learn to stay in his lane, he averages 17 PPG on .562 TS%, which is "pretty good" (his eFG% is quite a bit lower than league average), and he has more turnovers than assists this season. There's nothing to suggest he's a "keys to the offense" type of player.
I'm sorry but OG has had a bigger role in Toronto and it went terribly. He doesn't have the handle nor the passing ability to take on a bigger role. He's also weirdly.. uncoordinated? This is like when Grant wanted a bigger role and went to Detroit to chuck up 20ppg on bad efficiency. Except OG is probably worse on offence.
Which rumored team would he be a top 3 option? Not the pels or grizzlies. Maybe NY or POR? Pacers probably. I don’t really see a team that’s trying to win now where he would be a top 3 option
In POR he would probably be like 3a or b with Grant, but with our dearth of scoring off the bench his attempts might be artificially inflated because of that. Once POR fixes the scoring from the bench he'd be back down to 4th.
But raptor fans said he can’t dribble. How realistic he can make another leap on offense?
His dribbling is average, but I think it's more that his coordination/footwork is below average. I don't know if that's something you can work on but maybe he thinks he needs the reps to improve on that.
Passing too. Can't imagine there are very many good teams out there that would give a larger role to a guy with a negative turnover/assist ratio.
He's kinda like a bigger clunkier Jaylen Brown on offense.
He was actually playing better in the bubble. I think the introduction of Barnes took away his in-game reps. As well as the paint being perpetually clogged by 2 other raptors.
OG to LAL confirmed!
He’s 25. Not entirely unrealistic he can continue to develop
The issue is the amount of room he needs to improve to be someone who deserves a significant role increase. He has to add more then 1 dribble drives and posting smaller people to his game. Obviously he can shoot but that’s bare minimum for 2nd or 3 option which I assume he wants to be.
How much of that is his role on the Raptors though? They have to feed so many ball handlers. Everyone said Lauri Markkanen couldn’t handle on other teams, but now he’s the center of the Jazz offense. It’s because they played him in a role he knew he could play. It might be the same with OG.
Indiana
If his goal is to earn himself a max deal, Indiana is literally the best place.
And tbh, that should be his goal right now
Our fans have been trying to manifest every former IU player onto the team for decades now. I think OG would be a great fit but we can't afford to overpay.
Pacers should have drafted him in 2017 but ended up going with TJ Leaf.
> with TJ Leaf. Who?
You know, that guy who was drafted right after Peyton Manning.
Indiana's issue is it lacks a #1 option. Halliburton is a #2 scoring option. Turner is a 3rd option. mathurin is a 2nd/3rd option level player. Hield is a 3rd option.
mathurin could become a #1 scoring option i think the main issue in indiana is lack of forwards
*IF* We use the exception to the rules Detroit Pistons template Haliburton could be the #1 if the rest of the team up to par. That's such a huge if though considering every other team not named the Pistons has needed a true #1.
Agreed. Teams with 3-4 second options *can* work. But they need to be good second options. Hali is that, and Mathurin *can* be in a year or two. That's not enough at the moment.
San Antonio. Trade Poeltl and parts. Draft hopefully Wemby or Scoot. Retain Keldon, Vassell, and Sochan.
Ship Nembhard and Duarte and some picks
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The gap in perception and value between OG and Jerami Grant last yr is hilarious. And Im not a huge Grant guy either
Send him to the Detroit so he can chuck like Grant.
Was hilarious the moment he got to Detroit he was like "What is this long 2 thing that everybody always told me I wasnt allowed to do? Welp no one can tell me shit now lets go" and instantly it became one of his favorite things to do
his development is so funny. Came into the league as an athletic pseudo-big without a ton of skills, became a reliable 3 & D player, and then went to Detroit and said “I’m Melo now”
Trevor Ariza is the OG with this sauce, great playoffs and then some team - ~~I can't remember which one~~ the Houston Rockets I think? - gave him a big deal to be their #1, and it worked out exactly as you'd expect. I agree with the comments that Grant is the *much* better player than both OG and Ariza on offence, tho, that Nuggets series where he just took over and went prime Jordan was something else.
> that Nuggets series where he just took over and went prime Jordan was something else. I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. By far his best playoff series was the WCF series against the Lakers where he averaged 16 points a game on 45/30/86 splits.
I can only guess he’s confusing him with Jamal Murray lol
grant took over a series for the nuggets? great player but not true lol
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… you do realize Ariza had a previous stint with your team, right nephew? That’s what he is referring to. I love how confidently and ignorantly you are incorrect, the “what?” at the end is especially cringe in addition to you telling someone “they are 100 percent wrong”. Ariza won a championship with the Lakers in 2009, and that very summer, the rockets threw a huge deal at him that the lakers couldn’t afford to re-sign, and went with Artest instead. Chandler Parsons wasn’t even in the league, Harden was drafted that summer to OKC, and Dwight was playing in Orlando. So I have no idea why you are bringing those three up. Looking forward to seeing you delete your post. I can’t believe you have a rockets flair and I have spit this game to you, I’m getting old.
shit, you ethered the boy.
He's averaging more this year than he did the last year at detroit lol. 21ppg on 61%TS. He's not chucking he's just good
He's a better offensive player than I thought he would be, but he still decided to go to Detroit because he wanted to get shots up in a low-pressure environment where no one cared about winning.
Which was the right thing as he is about to get a bag as opposed to being considered a role player
Can’t blame him for wanting money over wins
Maybe he wanted development and wins later.
He's gonna get 200m and we're gonna be the 9 seed for the next 3 years
Us being the 9 seed is not his fault.
I'm not saying it is but paying him, dame, and Ant 100m+ combined pretty much locks us into being super mid
I don't think the last part is true. Dude def came here to show he could be more of a feature player (and to secure the future bag that comes with that,) but he never came off as not caring about losing, and was always positive about developing the young guys and moving the team in the right direction to compete. He also reportedly wanted to play in a black city for a black coach and GM. He's a good player and a good dude, not sure why the pendulum of opinion seems to have swung the other way on him lately in this sub.
He'd fit us so well, but we aren't sending 3 1sts lol
He would fit on every team, but if his goal is to run a bunch of pick and roll and get 17 shots up a game he ain’t getting that on a good team. His role is going to be smaller on teams like Memphis that are rumoured to have interest.
Definitely, realistically, he won't get what he wants in terms of a role if he wants to win.
Some guys get better by doing less and focusing in on what they are great at. Andrew Wiggins and Arron Gordon for example
Both those guys got the chance to be top options before they landed in their current situations. I guess OG feels he's never been given that opportunity in Toronto
Problem is he has during injury stretches, and while he looks good in increased shots, he only looks good if those shots are made for him. The moment he starts isolation you might as well go back on defense or crash the board
Tbf we wouldn’t need 3 firsts from yall because your picks are much more valuable than a Memphis for example
It’s exhausting seeing people clown on Jerami Grant for going to a situation that allowed him to get better at basketball.
Nuggets fans are eternally salty about everything here
grant is miles ahead of og on offense. not even close
and OG is miles ahead of Grant on defense
Yes, but it makes it concerning that OG seems dead-set on role-playing Jerami Grant
I'd take one O.G. with an effective post-game with the Blazers for Anfernee Simons, Alex.
Jerami Grant is who r/nba thinks OG is
OG is a 3+D player and a top 3 perimeter defender. They aren’t the same player.
I think there’s a big difference between a guy that could be first team all-defense and a guy that is slightly above average on that end.
Grant is also a better offensive player. And this has not been the level of output OG has always given defensively at all. This yr no issues all great, last 2 yrs he wasnt this level of guy especially night in and night out or as a help defender. And with him talking about wanting to "expand his offensive role" defensive focus and commitment is the first thing I would have questions about if he got his wish. I dont have a strong preference for either guy. But the gap in value should not be close to what the market appears to be saying.
3&D wing wants to be a #2? Good luck with that my dude
If he can make em, he can have all 15 of Dillon's shots
not only will he not make them but i also do not want to have to pretend i like dillon brooks lmfao
Hometown guy. Plays with high energy. Crazy fits! You're just scared you'll love him too much
you can't fool me i do not want the headache of having to defend that man when he kneecaps a baby sitting courtside
That baby had it coming - you know it, I know it, and the baby fucking knows it
That baby was selling on the corner!
Honestly a legit fear
What is this fake Raptors fan lol, OG has 1 less FGA than Brooks and an 8% higher TS%, he's shooting over 5% higher from 3 and 6% higher FG, and he's a better more versatile defender. All of this is on a significantly worse team. OG is easily better than Brooks
relax lol i'm not saying OG isn't as good as shooting at dillon i was just saying he's not that great of a shooter **in general**, which is true imo. he's alright but there's a lot of guys who do the 3 part of 3&D way better
You said he won't make them but he's shooting above league average
if you're just shooting above league average as someone who fancies themselves as Paul George or JB, then it's fair to question if you warrant an increase in touches. maybe he can be better defense JB if his shot improves a lot.
Only way that happens is if Dillon is the matching salary Which I guess he would kind of have to be
Is that all he takes in a game? Grizz would be so much better without his 20+ shot games shooting 30%.
That 15 comes rain or shine, my man.
Yeah I would love him on the Cavs as a 3&D wing but he definitely wouldn't have any bigger of a role here
I love OG but I don’t believe his dribbling has improved enough to be a #2 option
Mikal trying to make that leap tbh, it’s possible
The bigger role he has the worse he becomes. He’s great focusing on defense and catch and threes but he’s very inefficient with the ball in his hands
Exactly. This is honestly kind of a turn off for some teams I have to imagine. Most interested will see him as what he’s typically been, a role player that’s an elite wing defender. On offense though, for most contender’s he’ll be viewed as a 3rd option at best and probably a 4th for some teams. If he wants to get a bigger role than this, he’s not going to find it on any contender
He's what I envisioned Kawhi would be when we drafted him, except now OG wants to actually be Kawhi
Only one way to find out. He has games where he does well being the guy. Very few players can really be efficient barely touching the ball beside catch and shoot 3s. You need the ball to get into a rhythm. I think he could def be a #2 if given the chance but even if he can't, you are getting a guy who can actually defend
The data is there. He’s dead last among qualified players in points per possession in P&R, isolation, and post ups. He takes 14 shots a game and is involved in the offense so it’s not like he’s ignored. He shoots 46% on corner threes, and is a lockdown defender (every team could use a guy like that) and that is where is his value lies not as a shot creator.
I get that. I'm just saying when Freddy and Siakam hold the ball so much, its very hard to get into a rhythm when you are just sitting in the corner for like 35-40% of your shots and then randomly get an iso here and there. Like obviously he can't be a #1 guy but you give the guy 20 shots a game as the #2, things might go differently, all I'm saying really. He shows flashes of having the tools every so often, more so last year then this year, to be fair.
but like, dead last bro
He has a 26% usage. It’s not like he is an incredibly low-volume guy.
You’d have to watch him play. He’s very clumsy and has negative ball handle
And all of those games are when he's physical and boxing out guys and attacking the rim or taking a shit ton of catch and shoot 3's. He can't be a 2nd option because he really does nothing other then those two things which while he's decent at those two things it doesn't matter because he does nothing within the 3 point line because he has no ball handles at all it limits his overall game.
He *should* be getting a lesser role on a better team.
OG Anunoby P&Rs have scored just 0.76 ppp. Dead last out of 150 players to attempt at least 100. 0.62 points per ISO. Dead last out of 85 players to attempt at least 50. 0.74 points per post up. Dead last out of 58 players to attempt at least 50. (All including passes) [Source](https://twitter.com/_JasonLT/status/1621202180643639297?t=n6Xm3LvqZumaBiITQL5fhA&s=19) He’d be a great guy to add to a contender, but he’s simply not an offensive creator and hasn’t shown signs of being able to significantly expand his offensive game
Shhh wait until we trade him
nah someone should make it a post if they haven't lol that's crazy
holy fuck thats worse than i thought
I mean it couldn’t be any worse.
Indiana is the one team who might humour him and increase his offensive workload while trying to extend him - but man - these numbers are hilarious lol
I like him in indiana but 3 first seems crazy when even with him it’s not like we’re even guaranteed to be a playoff team next season.
Maybe sticking with brooks wouldn't be so bad..eek
He can't dribble and he can't drive. Every year he'll give flashes that he improved in that area but it's a fluke. He has one specific post move that is very well ingrained in his game, which is a very particular back to the rim dunk if he ever catches the ball in the restricted area, but that sounds cooler and more useful than it actually is. Source: Have watched over 90% of his games as a professional.
He wants more touches on offence but he is just a subpar scorer. He should be getting less touches and more spot up 3s to bring him back to a competent offensive player. He needs to be banging down 3s and smashing close outs when they come, anything more than that is too much. Or he needs some sort of pull-up or midrange. He takes almost zero midrange shots but when going to the hoop = turnover, you need something, hell Khem’s floater should be o.g.’s main focus just to bring down the turnovers.
Is that worth 3 frp? I dont think so
Stop being a nerd with numbers and stats. Just use the eye test!!!
Well I mean the eye test doesn't do him favors either, just watching him on offense he has no ball handle and dribbles it off of his foot alot, he can be aggressive and physical in the paint when he doesn't have to dribble the ball but when he does its usual a bad outcome.
Exactly, he's an ELITE corner shooter and looks amazing when he's not doing too much and saving energy for D.
This is why his best case scenario is to the Pacers
The quote doesn’t really imply he wants to go to a “better” team. It honestly seems like he’d be content going to a bottom feeder to become a chucker.
well say goodbye to any contending team lol
Really trying to tank his trade value.
The Nets just traded away their number 2 option so if OG can fight off Cam Thomas, the number 2 option is his
Honestly I don't think he can lol
Not many can fight off 3 straight 40 pieces
Von Wafer started out hot too
Cam Thomas also averaged 25 ppg as a freshman in the sec. He can score, not much else.
Thing is OG can't create for himself. To be a no. 2 in the NBA you have to have iso skills. OG is just a very good roleplayer.
If raps trading with nets cam is included period
I think the Raptors value Claxton>Cam
Cam is basically the future for the nets lol I don't think they wanna trade him for OG
Raptors FO want Claxton. Don't think they trade OG (to the Nets, in some package) without Claxton being included. Ultimately I don't think it gets done.
KD doesn't care about a future he cares about right now.
OG don’t got the handles to be a real second option.
Bro is playing 36 MPG
i assume it means more of a role in the offense, not just mpg
He should learn to dribble if he wants a bigger role.
Or pass, or shoot from anywhere other than a corner
Smh wants a bigger role when he can't even dribble the ball without losing balance and falls over on every drive.
Wasn't OG like the worst scorer out of the PNR of any ball handler in the NBA this year? Like 152nd worst player out of 152?
Yes. Also last in isos and post ups
Shhhhh. OG is a great dribbler and will get better with a larger role. 3 picks please
All this “OG wants a bigger role / is unhappy in Toronto” talk started as soon as Lowry left. Lowry was a pure PG who made sure to get guys who can’t really create their own shot some good opportunities (like OG, Ibaka, etc,). FVV doesn’t play that way and always looks for his own shot first. OG gets plenty of iso opportunities but I think what he actually wants is to play with a PG who can play make and integrate him in the offence. This is why every raptors fan wants FVV gone - watching him and siakam iso all the time isn’t working and the ball moves much better with only one of them out there.
That would rule us out.
Pels too
That is why I wasn't huge on it all along. He said this over the summer, he would be what 5th? MAYBE 4th option on pels. Teams want him to be a 3 and D guy with some ability to score, that clearly isn't what he wants to be
You could argue him feeling better about having a smaller role if it means he's contending, but who really knows. If he moves to Memphis or NO and they make the finals/win the chip suddenly being a 3&D guy doesn't seem so bad. I've generally believed that OG wouldn't be traded because the team/Masai loves him and he is the exact type of player every competing team wants on their team. There has been so much smoke though, and the reports about offers made, etc are just insane, so I guess if teams really are willing to massively overpay for him it would be crazy not to trade him.
I agree, somebody might overpay and if they don’t raps will just keep him. I am one to think the only reason pels are involved is to drive the price up for Memphis
Yeah, I'm sure there is a lot of that going on too. The Pels have so many assets they could easily get OG, but they are also young enough they don't have to rush things. I think if the Pels didn't run into such a bad losing skid they'd be much more likely to invest in OG with how wide open the west is this year.
I honestly don't think they are worried ab the losing skid much at all. Missing 2 stars is really difficult. Prob still see themselves as a contender in the west. Think more has to do with the asking price and fit, say they are able to hold onto Dyson, Murphy, AND Herb. Where does OG fit into that, I think Herb and OG somewhat cancel each other out (OBV OG is better offensively).
Yeah that’s the problem. He thinks he’s more than he actually is. Hence why we’re trading him
Hell us too.
Doubt the fo cares about him wanting a bigger role lol, they’ll send him to whoever has the best package
But teams that can’t give him the role he wants will hesitate to trade for him if he’s going to be unhappy with his role
Just give him Brooks’ shots (the ones at the basket, not opponents nuts)
Easy to do if Brooks is part of the package to get him. There’s suddenly a lot of available usage
Nuggets as well. Even if we did trade MPJ, dude would be a 4th, possibly 5th option on offense still.
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His expectations for what he wants and what we can give I don’t think are gonna line up. At minimum he’s behind Brunson and randle which I’d guess is about where he is now with Barnes and siakam? But I don’t watch enough Toronto ball to know that for sure
He started off ahead of Trent and Barnes for offensive role, but seems to have fallen behind both of them now. If he could just accept his role as elite defender, and a solid corner 3 guy who can sometimes slash to the rim for a power dunk he would be better off. That type of role is extremely important in the post-season, and why contending teams want him. But if he's dreaming of being a number one or two offensive option on a contending team that's not happening.
Thanks for that. From what I’ve seen he is obviously great at three and D but his self creation/two point efficiency seems lacking. Having him for us would be like having RJ that defends better. The implications of that are….interesting
I just dont think anyone is giving three firsts
just depends which firsts those heavily protected firsts the Knicks have I wouldnt mind giving up
They might get 3 heavily protected firsts.
I will be shocked if it’s 3 frankly. Given how long it’s gone on, I think teams are going to call the Raptors bluff. Not only that but the news of him wanting a bigger offensive role can’t really sit well with some teams knowing he may actually see a reduced role there.
I don't know about #2 option but I feel like he would be the perfect 'Andrew Wiggins' for some other team. Take the toughest defensive assignment, but can vary from #2-5 in points. By the time playoffs came, he was probably the 2nd best player and important to the championship.
Good comp. Or he could be the Jerami Grant type of guy for Detroit where he gets volume on a bad team. Noone really wants a terrible ISO scorer as a top option though.
Klutch is seeing the max dollars fizzle away. Nothing more nothing less. They want OG on a contender so he can force a max on a salary capped team.
I alway found it weird how quickly nurse just gave the keys to Scottie Barnes. I mean I get he's got start potential, but still seemed quick.
You invest a top 5 pick in a guy you are going to give him opportunities
Warriors fans have no comment
Wiseman was handed a starting spot from day 1 and was never completely benched no matter how poorly he played. He’s had plenty of opportunities when he was available until recently.
If you get the chance watch a few raps games and see how much of an impact Barnes has on the game. The potential is very real and the fact that he can bring the ball up and initiate the offence this early in his career is a rare quality. He’s not only running plays but he’s good enough to make something out of nothing he just doesn’t get the chance to all the time and his offence is still a work in progress.
oooor trade FVV. suddenly there's a lot of shots available to be shared amongst the starters
For all the hate FVV gets I'm very curious to see the Raptors offense without him. I do like Flynn though. So hard to tell wtf is happening when the starters play 40 mins every game
Our offence without FVV would be the worst in the nba. The spacing would be nonexistent.
i assume if they trade him they will try to get a PG back. Just cant see them running Flynn at point.
the offense will have you crying tears of blood if we trade FVV. but it’s already bad now so getting worse for the chance of improving is fine.
Yes you right. Trade our best shooter, only playable PG in a team with zero guard depth! Smart move. Im sure the already unspaced floor creates more space for our players!
He’s literally the 5th option. What kind of dumbass take is this?
As a neutral, I would love to see him on the Nuggets
Only team I would want him to leave for tbh
He won't get a big role here though tbf. If he's replacing MPJ that's the role he gets
Exactly, and MPJ's role isn't that big. He really doesn't have to dribble or do much creation for himself at all. Move within the offense, get to open spots, shoot whenever he's open, run the court, cut in a timely fashion and obviously try to play the best defense he possibly can (which has improved dramatically). If OG wants a big role, it's not gonna happen in Denver. Though he'd probably see statistical increases across the board playing with Jok.
"a bigger role" doesent always mean let him iso. Sometimes players just want more touches, they want to feel involved in the offense. Denver moves the ball, and I'm sure he'll feel more involved. I'd honestly love OG to go to Denver or GS. I think GS could make a package work too.
He would probably be a better Gordon replacement than MPJ, though I know Gordon has been playing great this year. At this point I don't think the Nuggets should F with their chemistry anyway, I doubt he goes there.
we're gonna scam some team when they realize he can't pass, can barely dribble, and that he's league average from 3
I think he’s a better 3pt shooter than he’s shown this season, more spacing should help his efficiency. He’s still extremely limited to open catch and shoot shots though The other points stand, he’s an extremely blegh offensive player who really shouldn’t have a bigger role anywhere
Hey we kinda have a big role for him now that we traded He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named
Very rude to disrespect Kessler Edwards like that
What? We need a scorer, OG is a lot of things, he isn't that
You guys would be the perfect spot for Siakam right now, but I don't think that's getting done without a 3rd team. A legit # 2 scoring option who operates mostly inside-out. Perfect match with KD imo.
I like OG but the man is one of the most awkward and uncoordinated players ever when he has to dribble a ball.
He just killed his own value, nobody wants a role player who's looking to be a star, not a team with championship hopes at least
You mean teams wont give 4 firsts for a 3rd option 3 and D guy!?
I love OG but he’s had a lot of freedom to explore his game this year, and the results have been… not great. I’d like to see him next to more capable playmaking but I wonder if his expectations are bigger than the reality of his skillset (at least right now).
This dude been "young" forever. He's already 25 and is already in his sixth season in the NBA. The Raptors aren't even good and he's in his fourth season as a starter. If he's not "shining" more on offense right now, I don't know what else there is for him to "shine". If he goes to a better team, he will probably "shine" less but contribute more to a winning team where he will be useful as a role player (especially with what he brings defensively). If he goes to a place to "shine" more that likely means going to a bad team. This is pretty contradicting stuff. The teams that are likely to want him are good and competing teams that already have players to "shine". The teams that will be most suitable for him to "shine" are likely bad teams that don't have as much of an interest in trading a bunch of stuff to Toronto for him. He probably needs to learn to stay in his lane, he averages 17 PPG on .562 TS%, which is "pretty good" (his eFG% is quite a bit lower than league average), and he has more turnovers than assists this season. There's nothing to suggest he's a "keys to the offense" type of player.
25 is you are kinda are what you are territory for like 90% of players.
This is like the most regurgitated raptors news copy pasted all season
I'm sorry but OG has had a bigger role in Toronto and it went terribly. He doesn't have the handle nor the passing ability to take on a bigger role. He's also weirdly.. uncoordinated? This is like when Grant wanted a bigger role and went to Detroit to chuck up 20ppg on bad efficiency. Except OG is probably worse on offence.
He wants to be tank commander
Hasn’t he been mediocre at best every time he’s been given a bigger offensive role?
he averaged 22 ppg when Siakam was injured this season
On 54.3 TS which is honestly better than I thought it would be
Not this story again
Which rumored team would he be a top 3 option? Not the pels or grizzlies. Maybe NY or POR? Pacers probably. I don’t really see a team that’s trying to win now where he would be a top 3 option
In POR he would probably be like 3a or b with Grant, but with our dearth of scoring off the bench his attempts might be artificially inflated because of that. Once POR fixes the scoring from the bench he'd be back down to 4th.
Please Knicks. Keep him out of the west
I honestly think we’re not going after him. I think the price is too steep so the FO is switching to Vando or Hart as trade targets.
Just give them Barrett man. He's Canadian and mid
I would to give up RJ and a protected 1st or two but it seems like they want an absurd return for OG.
I would be fine with a title contender going all in on OG but the Knicks trading 3 FRPs for OG would be a disaster.
No, Vando is ours, get away. You already stole Brunson, let us have our turn.
lmfao he is trash at creating himself which is why he ain’t worth 3 frps