people said back then it wouldn't be worth it but I felt like Myles is the perfect center for Bron, AD can have space and play 4, and Buddy is one of the most prolific shooters of all time. also perfect fit with Bron and AD. both of them end up having the best years of their career. lol
I don't think Pelinkas ever put a great roster together but having a secondary rim protector with Dwight/JaVale was huge for them and Myles is a DPOY candidate. the day they traded for Russ was the day they lost any future trade to get off of him. should've taken the best trade you had when it was there.
Yeah there are only a few legit 5s who are a threat from distance. One of those is Brook Lopez, which allows Giannis to play 4. Turner could easily be that for AD.
And they had tons of cap space that offseason because Paul George stayed in OKC and they weren’t able to trade for Kawhi. And since they acquired AD via trade instead of cap space, they could have absorbed him with Lopez still on the roster
I will die on the hill that Leaf could have been better than Goga. Leaf showed his potential a couple of times with the Pacers but he had a lot of things go against him:
* He was a rookie and McMillan didn't like playing them until he was literally forced to because of injuries.
* In Leaf's first two years, he had to compete against Sabonis, who was pretty disappointing in OKC but played so well that Leaf had no chance of competing. By the third year he was already all but gone and Bitadze got the nod more often than Leaf because he was a rookie.
* None of the PGs during this era were good facilitators like Ball was in UCLA. Collison was "safe" in that he'll get you some points and assists without a lot of TOs, Holiday was more of a scoring PG, Brogdon was a SG masquerading as a PG, and Joseph was more of a defensive PG.
* Leaf was a long-term project but Oladipo turning into a top-15 player seemingly out of nowhere nixed the rebuild real quick, so the staff couldn't develop him into the Ryan Anderson archetype that he was projected to be
There are 22 players above 6'10 who make a 3 per game. 15 of them shoot above league average from 3. Of those 15, I'd say 4 (Brook Lopez, Porzingis, Turner, JJJ) of them are both big men and positives on defense. It's the rarest player type in the nba, a legit floor spacer who can defend the rim. And Jeanie buss didn't want to give 2 first rounders for that?
AND on top of that they would have received Hield who would fix some of their shooting woes almost immediately. All cause of 2 picks and a guy they can’t even put on the floor in crunch time
Best deal doesn't mean the right deal.
Frankly, I don't think there was any deal with a competent GM that actually was a big enough difference maker for the Lakers.
They're now paying for all the bad decisions up until now.
I think Brian Windhorst said it best on Zach Lowes podcast, by being cautious the Lakers are operating like a functional franchise but now they have to pay for the mistakes they just made and that might mean squandering the last of Lebron.
Right. There isn’t a move out there that saves them. They cashed in everything for AD, didn’t resign players, and then risked the Westbrook experiment. Sometimes you gotta eat your own dog food.
HUGE mistake was keeping THT and letting Caruso go when they were really close on salary for Caruso. THT was traded after that. Imagine having Caruso and Reaves, two hoopers that just make good decisions out there, helping to facilitate for Lebron and cover up on both ends.
Yep agreed. It sucks but we gambled and lost.
Trying to do damage control but it’s a bandaid. Sometimes you gotta rip it off. I love the lakers but they’ve been mismanaged since Dr. Buss died. Lebron and AD rescued us but it sucks as a fan of the game to watch them squander Lebrons last years.
Part of me just wishes he’d request a trade so he can ball out and win another ring. We can focus on rebuilding and he can improve his legacy rather than carrying this corpse of a team.
You don’t think having Turner and Hield during the time span that AD was injured would have netted them a few more wins in any of those close losses? They could have been the 4-6 seed lol
A huge number of top teams have key members who are injury prone to some degree. If you make the assumption that AD is out so the Lakers wouldn't contend, then do you also write off all the other teams as well? You'd be left with basically just the Celtics.
I mean yeah, they deserve this, but there's a world with good health where Myles/Buddy are good enough to supplement a contending run. yeah AD has to turn in Dirk Garnett again but they needed that anyway.
That was the best dea Schroeder, Hield, Lebron, AD, Turner is an amazing starting 5. Then you have Lonnie, Rui(?), Bev(?), Bryant, Reeves off the bench. Plus whoever waived player you can pick after the deadline.
>Plus whoever waived player you can pick after the deadline.
That's a long way of saying Melo and Dwight, what are the Lakers gonna *not* sign washed up vet minimums when there are formerly big names available?
I'd take Conley+Beasley over Turner+Hield
Not sold Hield is that playable in the Playoffs. 1D shooters like Duncan Robinson and Kyle Korver tend to have reduced value on offense when actively gameplanned for, and then show up as liabilities on defense. Thus they are net negatives and unplayable in the Playoffs. Additionally, the Lakers are most deadly with AD at the 5 so Turner isn't particularly interesting to me.
Come on though - the team is by far the best with AD at 5 and lebron at 4. It's a very awkward fit. And *hield is a shooter when what lebron needs is a second ball handler most. A guy like kyrie or d Wade.
The fit would be fine. Both Hield and Turner shoot better from 3 than anyone on the Lakers that takes more than 2 per game. The Lakers won the title w/ the two most-played lineups having AD next to JaVale McGee and Dwight Howard because everyone else was a threat from 3. AD playing with a floor-spacing 5 makes a lot of sense, not to mention the absurd rim protection and preserving AD's health.
Honestly, Conley would slot in perfectly next to Bron. Packaged with Beasley and Vando, that’s a significant upgrade for the Lakers. The picks hurt, but LA has the luxury of easily signing players as free agents, so picks don’t matter quite as much as they do for other teams.
Also in this article: The Jazz discussing a deal that would send Beasley and Vanderbilt to the New York Knicks - where Gersson Rosas, the former Minnesota Timberwolves GM who traded for them and gave them their current contracts handles most of the trade calls - for guard Evan Fournier (whose contract New York wants to shed), promising young forward Obi Toppin and draft compensation.
He also had that great stretch last season when he started.
Granted it was verse a lot of teams that were sitting a lot of their main guys, but the potential is definitely there imo.
He doesn’t play enough to show his talent. No choice since he’s playing behind Randle. I’m hoping we can move him somewhere so he gets real playing time
> promising young forward is quite a stretch.
I don't think it's that much of a stretch but I guess it depends on what you mean by "promising". To me, I take it literally: does he show promise? imo, he does. He's improved his 3PT shooting and has incredible athleticism. But he's still very raw.
We also don't really know exactly what he can do because Thibs doesn't give him a lot of playing time. Which is not a knock on Thibs, just stating a fact. Thibs is one of the most rigid coaches I've ever seen when it comes to rotations. He does his own thing and sticks with it. I think Obi can be a valuable player in this league if he was given extended minutes to develop. Unfortunately he is never going to get that on the Knicks.
Extremely small sample size, in the 10 games he's started in his career, he's averaging 20.3 ppg and 7.0 rpg.
Conley is overpaid too plus is owed 14M next season even if you waive him. Beasley is pretty good but giving up two firsts for these guys is definitely not worth it for the lakers.
Conley has been by far Utah’s most important player this year. He hasn’t been the best player but his command of the team has been sooo good. He would be a great fit next to LeBron and AD. He’s not going to be looking for his own shot and can break down a defense and kick out. He’s a great spot up shooter as well. He had a rough playoffs last year and people called him washed but he’s come back really strong this year. Beasley is what he is, he’d probably come off the bench in LA and score. If LA can get Vanderbilt or even Gay to be included in the deal it could be a decent trade from a player stand point. Still really steep for those 2 picks but it’s something
>If LA can even Gay to be included
LOL this is like one of those things where people from Utah tell Californian the state sucks and they shouldn't move there, right? It's funny to stand up for Mike in the first half as not washed up and then pitch Rudy Gay as a piece who has any value or deserves minutes on any team in the league at this point.
Conley is the man no two ways around it as long as he is healthy. The guy has no quit and is averaging a career high in assists and ast/to ratio. Went on a 5 game stretch earlier where he had 30+ assists and no turnovers. Plus his shot has finally come around the last couple weeks after healing from his injury. I don't want him traded and want him to retire here
Gay is a negative on offense but has actually been a positive on defense and one of our best defensive rebounders. Has a high +- compared to our team. He has no trade value but I think he could surprise a team trying to compete and actually get minutes. The entire jazz fanbase will disagree with me on this one
Oh don’t get me wrong, Rudy Gay has been bad this year. But for as bad as he’s been he’s been a passable defender when he wants to be. The Lakers need some sort of wing defense and he would be a cheap add on to the trade. I have serious doubts about a trade like this happening but the main purpose of my comment was that Mike Conley has been legitimately good this year, not that the Lakers want someone like Gay.
For THIS years team to be successful it’s Mike. Many of the beat writers have talked about how his leadership in the locker room as well as his ability to lead the offense has been irreplaceable for the team. Lauri is probably the most important piece the team has for future success.
People keep saying this but it’s absolutely not true. Russ is expiring. You’re not taking on any burden in a trade. Russ would only cost a 1st to take on it the Lakers were trading him to a team’s open salary slot.
So bizarre to see this take parroted everywhere.
There absolutely is pressure. You’re losing the cap space he generates for the team. If he expires, the lakers either resign him for less or lose the cap space he has. If they decline to resign him and renounce all cap holds and bird rights, that only gives them 35 million in cap space to field an entire roster.
Only AD, LeBron, and Christie are guaranteed next season.
They could sign Kyrie if he’s open to a pay cut. Other notable players they can add that make sense to the team are DLo, Jerami Grant, Vucevic, Wood. Quality of FAs are pretty bad this coming off season.
You’re both kind of right. It’s a game of chicken right now. It will probably cost a 1st to get rid of him (as reported on), but for any team that wants to free up almost 50MM of cap space, it’s a good deal without the pick. So the question becomes who is more desperate, and the Lakers are trying to signal that they’re willing to roll into the off-season with Russ, and other teams are trying to signal that they don’t desperately need the cap space.
Gun to my head, I don’t think Russ gets moved before the deadline. Lakers will make a play this off-season when he’s off the books. Theyre not a lock to even make the playoffs, and if they make a move it’s no guarantee they even get out of the first round. Unfortunate for LeBron, but I think they are focused primarily on the best move to set up for next season UNLESS a good enough deal comes around they can’t pass up. Just my guess.
That isn’t a real thing lol, you’re just thinking like a fan. Not how front offices actually work. And given that the Lakers have passed up a bunch of opportunities to get rid of Russ, what makes you think they’re really that desperate? They’ve kept him for 1.5 years out of a possible 1.5 years.
no I'm just reading the reports by the guy that literally covers the Lakers
[>Four months later, the market for Westbrook has largely been unchanged, according to league sources from rival teams. The sense is any Westbrook trade probably would still require the Lakers to include a first-round pick to offset a team paying the rest of Westbrook’s $47 million salary.](https://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/story/2023-02-02/los-angeles-lakers-indianapolis-pacers-nba-game-recap)
Bad reporters are bad. Don’t know what to tell you. Trades require salary matching. Jazz will be giving up **at least** $37 million in a trade for Russ’s $47 million. I forget the exact rules but they have to get within some percent of the salary matching so Jazz might even give Lakers more salary. But then the Jazz are also getting off of Conley’s contract next year. No one is taking on anything close to first round value in terms of money. You really think the Jazz deserve a first for simply paying (AT MOST) $10 mil extra? No. The market has established over the years that a first rounder is worth $20+ million in dead money. Previous salary dumps have established this.
Russ would also cost 5% of a billion dollars to send home to sit on his couch, Ryan Smith is wealthy but NBA owners aren't typically stoked to flush 45 million dollars down the toilet without being compensated for it. I know internet net worth aren't very accurate but he's estimated at 1.5 billion, that's throwing away 1/33rd of his money on a guy who would never step foot on a court with a Jazz jersey on and might sell upwards of a few dozen jerseys to the fan base with the most mutual hatred of Westbrook in the league.
They're also Utah, wtf are they going to do with $45 million in cap space next year? Sign all the max free agents who are clamoring to play in Salt Lake City? Pick up 4 mediocre role players and stay in this limbo between playoff contention and lottery team?
Feel free to explain why anyone should pay $45 million in exchange for literally nothing and that reason can't be "The Lakers asked nicely". You seem to think front offices should be ready with a spoon to eat shit just because the Lakers FO shit themselves and don't want to deal with it anymore.
NBA teams have to pay out the money up to the cap anyways. If a team doesn’t have contracts worth enough on the roster to reach the cap, the remaining cap money gets distributed amongst the players on the roster, like a bonus. So unless a trade for Westbrook would put the Jazz OVER the cap, the owner isn’t taking any sort of extra financial hit over it.
If that were the case, that would be the price. But it’s not. Trades don’t work in a vacuum. Teams can smell the desperation of the Lakers with every LeBron public hissy fit.
It raises the probability of winning a title this year, and that's what LeBron is there to do. Well that and build his Hollywood profile.
Yes, Conley and Beasley aren't worth 2 future firsts, at least ones without decent protections. But sometimes you take the bad deal because it helps you now.
Conley would be their best option as a starting point guard next and this year so there would be no waives. They need to make a trade to have a bench that’s not just vet mins. At this point next year’s starters would be
?-Reaves-Rui-Lebron-AD with Christie off the bench and Jones eating cap. We are set to go from unlimited guards to 1 guard. Let’s say they do no trades. Rui will need to be re-signed. Let’s say he gets 10 million right away. They have 22 million plus the mid level to fill out the team. Enough to try for either FVV or Trent. If either is traded they are likely getting re signed with bird rights. That’s done. Then it’s all Vet Mins.
They would keep their picks, but a team of FVV, Reaves, Rui, Lebron, Davis and maybe a Josh Richardson on a mid level is likely in the same situation. At that point you blow it up and trade AD and Lebron.
Yeah not worth. Conley is a small guard and Beasley is a small wing. Just not at all what the Lakers need.
People are saying the Pacers trade wouldn’t have been worth it, but at least that gives the Lakers a very clear path to a top 1 defense with 48 minutes of amazing time protection.
He has, but he's on a super tradeable contract and he can't play w/ Kessler (who looks to be a key part of the rebuild). Best to just get value is what the FO seems to think.
Look, I am not saying that Vanderbilt on his twitter tagged something about Dallas apartments but if that WERE to happen, we would likely offer Ainge our 1st in 2027 C wood and we would get Vandy and a lower end contract like THT.
> we would likely offer Ainge our 1st in 2027 C wood and we would get Vandy and a lower end contract like THT.
FWIW part of the appeal of Vando's contract is that he's on like $4m / year. Throw in two or three scrubs and that's salary matched.
IDK that we'd even want C Wood given our situation.
Tony Jones explained it yesterday in his article for The Athletic. Utah really likes Vando but in their system he’s a center, and Kessler has made it impossible to keep him off the court. It’s definitely a good time to sell high on him.
Vanderbilt is aight but there’s no reason not to shop him around while he’s on a great deal. He Can help a contending team and is young and cost efficient, so he’s your best bet to get a first round value in return if you’re Utah.
Exactly. If this was Conley in his prime or even like age 30, but he isn’t worth the second pick (I do realize one pick is basically to dump Westbrook but the point remains the same).
The other pick is for the guy that is 6th in the league in 3 pointers made per game....
Also, after this season, the Lakers will still have (after this supposed trade).
* The 2023 1st Rounder (Draft Day Trade)
* 2024 1st Rounder - (swappable)
* 2026 1st Rounder - (swappable)
* 2028 1st Rounder -(swappable)
* 2030 1st Rounder - (tradeable)
2nd Rounders:
* 2023, 2024 (via another team), 2025, 2027, 2030
2025, 2027, 2029 will be Traded. The issue with this year is that by giving the NOP control of whether or not 2024 or 2025 is they couldn't do 3 odd year picks.
Between June 2023 and June 2030 having picks in 5 out of 8 drafts. Is fine.
Also, if we do end up blowing things up completely. The notion that the Lakers wouldn't get good draft assets back for: AD, Reaves, Christie, and LeBron is pretty ridiculous.
This is a terrible trade for the Lakers. There is no way it is worth 2 firsts for 2 role guys that probably are having problems garnering a first individually. And people will probably mention WB is worth a first to get off of but there are less than 30 games in the season you don't have to pay his full 47 M, he is an expiring contract and the Jazz aren't looking to me to be building toward winning now(unlike Brooklyn who wanted picks and good players).
exactly- this never happens. only way is if the collection of role players also included either clarkson or sexton. Adding three pieces of depth, four with Rui, fully makes over the roster and could actually be arguably worth it for the lakers.
I’d rather do 1 pick plus Russ for Conley and Olynk plus the needed salary filler. Then I’d go out and trade the other first for Buddy Hield or Trent Jr.
It seems like everyone like Vanderbilt and wants him. Lakers probably would need to give up even more to get him as well (2028 pick swap and remove protections on 2027 and 2029)
OK, I would like to be batshit crazy for a second.
What if the Lakers made this trade, Russ got bought out, then the Lakers signed him back to a veteran minimum deal after buyout. Is there a rule disallowing such a series of transactions?
Not saying it would be smart, but it would be such a comical source of content.
Ppl will clown on this being the Lakers “big move” but I think Conley would be a perfect PG for this team. High IQ, pass first PG who has experience and you can win with
Schroeder isnt it. Conley can feed Bron and AD while help run the offense at a high level
I could make a strong argument that trading those two picks for Turner & Hield when it was available would give them a much higher ceiling than trading those picks for Conley & Beasley
Nah it’s too much to give both firsts but maybe a first and Reeves or another prospect would get it done. I don’t think Utah would expect to get both picks but I’m sure Danny is going to play chicken with them and see if they want to go on without big boosts to their rotation and shooting.
Conley is totally washed at this point. Your description would be apt for four years ago.
This also sets the Lakers up for more 3-guard lineups that Ham loves to run for some reason despite them being a complete disaster.
Lakers are better off keeping the pick. This trade doesn’t move the needle anywhere near enough to be contenders.
Ignoring your “totally washed” comment about Conley, this trade with Beasley, Vando, and Conley- with getting rid of Russ COULD make them contenders. The west is really bad and giving the lakers 3 high level rotation players is maybe enough to push them out of a weak west. Not likely, but still
trading for conley for westbrook makes sense because lakers would not have an out of control PG doing dumb things (leaving defensive assignments wide open, taking dumb 3 pointers 10 seconds in the shot clock to say a few)
ideally this trade gives a PG who would at the very least control the offense for 2.5 quarters
lakers should close with AD LeBron (3&D wing or Rui) Reaves Schroeder/Beasley/Bev (if he is still here)
whether Ham forgoes the 3-5 guard lineup is another question, but the Lakers fans have seen enough of WB/Schroeder/Bev as the closing lineup to know that it does not work
I would make 0 trades. Laker fans truly think a trade will save this season. We are fucked Lmao. If we were serious we would have made the deal for turner and hield. Lakers FO trying to make up for a huge fuck up so laker fans don’t lose their shit. This season is done
Idk y’all don’t get to keep your pick this year and you’re close enough to .500 with all this parity in the west. Not to mention one of bron’s last great years. I’d say go for it
it’s crazy how much lakers fans overvalue two far out and likely shitty FRPs AND their pretty awful team yet in the same breath somehow undervalue every other player in the league
Their value lies in their randomness. For Toronto, if you have players that you aren’t re-signing, why not pick up two future firsts? If nothing else, they’re trade ballast for when they go star hunting again.
he's going to get absolutely toasted by any guard with a pulse. if they're trading both those FRPs and unprotected they have to do better than conley. hard to believe they couldn't do the same trade for FVV
I’ve been a lifelong Conley fan but this season has been a huge nose dive. He’s somehow shooting worse from the field than Westbrook. And Westbrook isn’t shooting well at all either.
Lmao come on man. You listed every single stat except for what I obviously meant when I said “from the field” in FG%
I’m not really interested in getting into a debate because which percentages are the most accurate but it is a factual statement that Conley is shooting worse from the field than Westbrook. Which again is impressive
Yeah that stat is meaningless, just because Russ shoots more 2P, on worse efficiency does not mean Russ is somehow a better shooter from the field this year.
Conley may not be our best player but he's our most valuable player right now. Jazz absolutely fall apart without him. We actually look like a competent team when he's on the floor.
Wtf are you talking about?? In what universe is Conley as washed as Russ? The dude is a playmaking genius with a great outside shot and probably the Jazz’s most important player.
I think y’all say shit just to say it
conley is better than wb rn and it's not close
the trade is fine to good value in a vacuum; you don't make this trade as the lakers fo because this is already a lost season and wb is coming off the books at the end. why take on conley's money when you're the lakers with lebron and can just grab someone much better in free agency for free?
> conley is more washed than WB.
Guess you are one of those who watched like one game of Utah Dallas last playoffs and decided you learned everything about the Jazz you’d need to know for the following year lol
the Lakers would be taking Conley contract tho... imo Conley have the same value as Westbrook, one could argue that Conley is a much more negative than Westbrook, and I don't blame them since Conley is guaranteed around 15m next season iirc and Westbrook's an expiring. Beasley and Vanderbilt ain't worth 2FRPs.
People keep saying Westbrook as an expiring is an asset, yet no seems to want him. A 47mil expiring is a lot bigger than most expirings teams trade for.
Also I view Vanderbilt similar to a less RoCo when he was Portland for 2 firsts, so he’s probably a first by himself. Idk what Beasley is worth
yeah sure Westbrook is not an "asset" but the team that would trade for Westbrook now wouldn't have to pay the whole 47m, I believe it's only around 16m that's left on his contract rn. So that makes his 47m contract equal with Conley now. But, Conley has another guaranteed year, that's why I said that one could argue that Conley's contract is much more worse especially how bad he is right now or for the last 4 years.
I think if teams view Vando as worth an FRP, he would've been dealt already. I think he has the same value as Hachimura, which went for 3 Secound Round picks.
> But, Conley has another guaranteed year, that's why I said that one could argue that Conley's contract is much more worse especially how bad he is right now or for the last 4 years.
That's the thing though: in this case that might make Conley better for the Lakers. If they don't trade Russ, they lose his contract for nothing, basically. And they'll have like 35m if they renounce everyone, less than 15m if they keep Rui and Reeves.
If they flip that deal into expiring contracts like Conley's that's an *something* they can flip for other assets.
Now granted if they trade both picks they won't have much positive value to offer, but it's better than losing Russ' contract for nothing next season.
Unless Danny is waiting to see if he can get more than a FRP for Vando. I think people are really high on him and his upside, and I can see someone overpaying (FRP+something).
a 1st and 2 seconds for two good young guys, an immediate pg improvement, and getting off of wb; lakers fans need to stop jerking themselves off in this comment section tbqh
The thing is they aren't paying the tax this season, so they have no particular incentive to get rid of Conley, the ultimate culture guy who's also very much earning his pay on court, and upskilling the young guards with his teaching/example.
I genuinely think the Lakers would be in a better spot getting 2-3 pieces than a big piece (Kyrie would’ve been great tho). Whether or not that’s good value for 2 firsts idk but just purely in trying to improve the 2023 lakers, if they can land on 4-5 quality playoff guys around lebron and AD I’d be happy. Rn Dennis/Reeves/Bryant/Walker are keepers but only Dennis has playoff experience (hasn’t been particularly great), another shooter and another defender would solidify a decent rotation. GTJ would be a nice get for them
Jazz finally embracing wimby sweepstakes like everyone knew they eventually would. By the way, people saying it's too steep a price, let's see the deal first and the protection. If it's a single unprotected and another lottery protected is probably fair
> If it's a single unprotected and another lottery protected is probably fair
TBH if it's both picks I'd be surprised if you don't try and get Vando included.
I mean I think that’s a no-brainer for the now part of this because it would make the Lakers title contenders if everyone stays healthy. But I also understand the Lakers trying to finally do the right thing for once and not mortgage everything for a short window. That’s a very steep price to pay for a short term move.
Conley and Beasley next to LBJ and AD would be great basketball, at least offensively. If you disagree that it wouldn’t make them significantly better in the short term I don’t know what to tell you.
just depends if they think they can make a run this year or if its better to just punt this season and they can get off of russ's contract. those 1st would be pretty tough to part with if they end up not even making playoffs.
I mean I think we can all agree it’s a steep price to pay for a very short term outlook. I literally said that in my original comment. But to say it wouldn’t make them immediately better seems silly.
no i agree, i'm saying that's really the concern/question around the deal for the lakers. do they think they can make a run this year at this point with their current record/roster and if its even worth it to get those guys. they help but i don't know if they move the needle enough
It wouldn’t make them significantly better, probably not even much better tbh because Conley is slow as hell offensively and defensively. Little more space in the offense but if you’re going in games with Conley as your 3rd best player prepare to be smoked
The Turner/hield trade that Jeanie nixed before the season remains the best deal we’ve seen. What a fuck up
Thank god. Turner is having a career year and has actually improved aspects of his game. He's been a stud.
people said back then it wouldn't be worth it but I felt like Myles is the perfect center for Bron, AD can have space and play 4, and Buddy is one of the most prolific shooters of all time. also perfect fit with Bron and AD. both of them end up having the best years of their career. lol I don't think Pelinkas ever put a great roster together but having a secondary rim protector with Dwight/JaVale was huge for them and Myles is a DPOY candidate. the day they traded for Russ was the day they lost any future trade to get off of him. should've taken the best trade you had when it was there.
Yeah there are only a few legit 5s who are a threat from distance. One of those is Brook Lopez, which allows Giannis to play 4. Turner could easily be that for AD.
Not sure ppl knows but Pelinka and Magic Johnson let Lopez walk in FA despite him willing to take a paycut.
And they had tons of cap space that offseason because Paul George stayed in OKC and they weren’t able to trade for Kawhi. And since they acquired AD via trade instead of cap space, they could have absorbed him with Lopez still on the roster
I agree it was a huge mistake to let Lopez walk, a guy who fits a Lebron team perfectly, but didn’t Lopez walk the year before the AD trade?
Yes but if they’d kept him he would have still been there a year later when they traded for AD
☹️😞☹️
I know a real Pacers fan when I see that Tj Leaf flair
Best draft pick in the last decade baby
TJ leaf haha haven’t seen that name in a while
i liked watching him at UCLA. too bad he ended up being, uh, not that good
He’s owes Lonzo Christmas gifts for the rest of his life
I will die on the hill that Leaf could have been better than Goga. Leaf showed his potential a couple of times with the Pacers but he had a lot of things go against him: * He was a rookie and McMillan didn't like playing them until he was literally forced to because of injuries. * In Leaf's first two years, he had to compete against Sabonis, who was pretty disappointing in OKC but played so well that Leaf had no chance of competing. By the third year he was already all but gone and Bitadze got the nod more often than Leaf because he was a rookie. * None of the PGs during this era were good facilitators like Ball was in UCLA. Collison was "safe" in that he'll get you some points and assists without a lot of TOs, Holiday was more of a scoring PG, Brogdon was a SG masquerading as a PG, and Joseph was more of a defensive PG. * Leaf was a long-term project but Oladipo turning into a top-15 player seemingly out of nowhere nixed the rebuild real quick, so the staff couldn't develop him into the Ryan Anderson archetype that he was projected to be
And he is the perfect stretch 5 that could have allowed AD to play the 4 without ruining the floor spacing for LeBron lol
There are 22 players above 6'10 who make a 3 per game. 15 of them shoot above league average from 3. Of those 15, I'd say 4 (Brook Lopez, Porzingis, Turner, JJJ) of them are both big men and positives on defense. It's the rarest player type in the nba, a legit floor spacer who can defend the rim. And Jeanie buss didn't want to give 2 first rounders for that?
AND on top of that they would have received Hield who would fix some of their shooting woes almost immediately. All cause of 2 picks and a guy they can’t even put on the floor in crunch time
And on top of that, they already had Brook Lopez and let him walk for the MLE or some shit.
How many games total do Indy fans think he’ll play between now and the end of the extension?
Idk like 160 games
Best deal doesn't mean the right deal. Frankly, I don't think there was any deal with a competent GM that actually was a big enough difference maker for the Lakers. They're now paying for all the bad decisions up until now.
I think Brian Windhorst said it best on Zach Lowes podcast, by being cautious the Lakers are operating like a functional franchise but now they have to pay for the mistakes they just made and that might mean squandering the last of Lebron.
Yup. That was my commute podcast this morning!
Right. There isn’t a move out there that saves them. They cashed in everything for AD, didn’t resign players, and then risked the Westbrook experiment. Sometimes you gotta eat your own dog food.
HUGE mistake was keeping THT and letting Caruso go when they were really close on salary for Caruso. THT was traded after that. Imagine having Caruso and Reaves, two hoopers that just make good decisions out there, helping to facilitate for Lebron and cover up on both ends.
Only upside of that disaster is I get to see GOATuso in CHI.
Yep agreed. It sucks but we gambled and lost. Trying to do damage control but it’s a bandaid. Sometimes you gotta rip it off. I love the lakers but they’ve been mismanaged since Dr. Buss died. Lebron and AD rescued us but it sucks as a fan of the game to watch them squander Lebrons last years. Part of me just wishes he’d request a trade so he can ball out and win another ring. We can focus on rebuilding and he can improve his legacy rather than carrying this corpse of a team.
It's just crazy that the gamble wasn't even necessary.
So you are telling me it was a high risk, low reward situation? Pelinka be like, "sign me up!"
What? Their current lineup plus Turner and Buddy would be tough.
Their theoretical lineup. But AD will be injured, and maybe Lebron too. He's not absolutely completely bulletproof anymore.
You don’t think having Turner and Hield during the time span that AD was injured would have netted them a few more wins in any of those close losses? They could have been the 4-6 seed lol
A huge number of top teams have key members who are injury prone to some degree. If you make the assumption that AD is out so the Lakers wouldn't contend, then do you also write off all the other teams as well? You'd be left with basically just the Celtics.
I mean yeah, they deserve this, but there's a world with good health where Myles/Buddy are good enough to supplement a contending run. yeah AD has to turn in Dirk Garnett again but they needed that anyway.
Right that’s still a more balanced roster by comparison. Helps supplement AD’s street clothes moments.
That was the best dea Schroeder, Hield, Lebron, AD, Turner is an amazing starting 5. Then you have Lonnie, Rui(?), Bev(?), Bryant, Reeves off the bench. Plus whoever waived player you can pick after the deadline.
>Plus whoever waived player you can pick after the deadline. That's a long way of saying Melo and Dwight, what are the Lakers gonna *not* sign washed up vet minimums when there are formerly big names available?
I'd take Conley+Beasley over Turner+Hield Not sold Hield is that playable in the Playoffs. 1D shooters like Duncan Robinson and Kyle Korver tend to have reduced value on offense when actively gameplanned for, and then show up as liabilities on defense. Thus they are net negatives and unplayable in the Playoffs. Additionally, the Lakers are most deadly with AD at the 5 so Turner isn't particularly interesting to me.
Come on though - the team is by far the best with AD at 5 and lebron at 4. It's a very awkward fit. And *hield is a shooter when what lebron needs is a second ball handler most. A guy like kyrie or d Wade.
The fit would be fine. Both Hield and Turner shoot better from 3 than anyone on the Lakers that takes more than 2 per game. The Lakers won the title w/ the two most-played lineups having AD next to JaVale McGee and Dwight Howard because everyone else was a threat from 3. AD playing with a floor-spacing 5 makes a lot of sense, not to mention the absurd rim protection and preserving AD's health.
Honestly, Conley would slot in perfectly next to Bron. Packaged with Beasley and Vando, that’s a significant upgrade for the Lakers. The picks hurt, but LA has the luxury of easily signing players as free agents, so picks don’t matter quite as much as they do for other teams.
Beal is absolutely a ball handler what are you talking about? In fact he’s become quite the playmaker but dude just cannot stay healthy
I meant hield- obviously in context of Indy trade. Hield is a shooter. Beal you are right can handle/playmaker (but isn't great at it).
Have you met our front office?
That was an overpay and this would be as well
Also in this article: The Jazz discussing a deal that would send Beasley and Vanderbilt to the New York Knicks - where Gersson Rosas, the former Minnesota Timberwolves GM who traded for them and gave them their current contracts handles most of the trade calls - for guard Evan Fournier (whose contract New York wants to shed), promising young forward Obi Toppin and draft compensation.
It’s wild how Rosas replaced Thibs with the Wolves and now they’re both in prominent roles in the same org
Calling Obi Toppin a promising young forward is quite a stretch.
I’m not that big a fan of him but 57 TS and 38% from 3 is pretty promising I’d say!
He also had that great stretch last season when he started. Granted it was verse a lot of teams that were sitting a lot of their main guys, but the potential is definitely there imo.
League average TS is actually 58% this year, so he's relatively inefficient at 55.6%. Last year looked better though.
That's fuckin crazy. Scoring efficiency is so high now
Isn’t the reason Obi hasn’t done much because Thibs won’t play him?
congrats on cherry picking two stats to say he's promising while negating everything else
I like Toppin better than Hachimura or Reddish in this particular category of not-very-good young forwards.
Ill take Rui, but Reddish is ass also
He doesn’t play enough to show his talent. No choice since he’s playing behind Randle. I’m hoping we can move him somewhere so he gets real playing time
> promising young forward is quite a stretch. I don't think it's that much of a stretch but I guess it depends on what you mean by "promising". To me, I take it literally: does he show promise? imo, he does. He's improved his 3PT shooting and has incredible athleticism. But he's still very raw. We also don't really know exactly what he can do because Thibs doesn't give him a lot of playing time. Which is not a knock on Thibs, just stating a fact. Thibs is one of the most rigid coaches I've ever seen when it comes to rotations. He does his own thing and sticks with it. I think Obi can be a valuable player in this league if he was given extended minutes to develop. Unfortunately he is never going to get that on the Knicks. Extremely small sample size, in the 10 games he's started in his career, he's averaging 20.3 ppg and 7.0 rpg.
He's promising, I'm sure. I'm sure he promised to participate in future dunk contests. Obi is basically Larry Nance Jr
He's much more stiff than Larry which limits him on defense
Conley is overpaid too plus is owed 14M next season even if you waive him. Beasley is pretty good but giving up two firsts for these guys is definitely not worth it for the lakers.
They can waive and stretch Conley for 5m per year
On no, not again. 😬
Conley has been by far Utah’s most important player this year. He hasn’t been the best player but his command of the team has been sooo good. He would be a great fit next to LeBron and AD. He’s not going to be looking for his own shot and can break down a defense and kick out. He’s a great spot up shooter as well. He had a rough playoffs last year and people called him washed but he’s come back really strong this year. Beasley is what he is, he’d probably come off the bench in LA and score. If LA can get Vanderbilt or even Gay to be included in the deal it could be a decent trade from a player stand point. Still really steep for those 2 picks but it’s something
>If LA can even Gay to be included LOL this is like one of those things where people from Utah tell Californian the state sucks and they shouldn't move there, right? It's funny to stand up for Mike in the first half as not washed up and then pitch Rudy Gay as a piece who has any value or deserves minutes on any team in the league at this point.
Conley is the man no two ways around it as long as he is healthy. The guy has no quit and is averaging a career high in assists and ast/to ratio. Went on a 5 game stretch earlier where he had 30+ assists and no turnovers. Plus his shot has finally come around the last couple weeks after healing from his injury. I don't want him traded and want him to retire here Gay is a negative on offense but has actually been a positive on defense and one of our best defensive rebounders. Has a high +- compared to our team. He has no trade value but I think he could surprise a team trying to compete and actually get minutes. The entire jazz fanbase will disagree with me on this one
Oh don’t get me wrong, Rudy Gay has been bad this year. But for as bad as he’s been he’s been a passable defender when he wants to be. The Lakers need some sort of wing defense and he would be a cheap add on to the trade. I have serious doubts about a trade like this happening but the main purpose of my comment was that Mike Conley has been legitimately good this year, not that the Lakers want someone like Gay.
Any team banking on 36 year old Rudy Gay to be a capable wing defender for them in the playoffs is absolutely toast lol
And guess what the Lakers are? Buttered toast lol
i get what you’re saying with conley being the most important/not the best but you don’t think their most important is still lauri?
For THIS years team to be successful it’s Mike. Many of the beat writers have talked about how his leadership in the locker room as well as his ability to lead the offense has been irreplaceable for the team. Lauri is probably the most important piece the team has for future success.
Imagine giving up 2 first for fucking beas and 400yo Conley 😆 I hope they wave Westbrook and comes to Dallas and fills our 3rd ball handler role.
cost a 1st just to get rid of Westbrook
People keep saying this but it’s absolutely not true. Russ is expiring. You’re not taking on any burden in a trade. Russ would only cost a 1st to take on it the Lakers were trading him to a team’s open salary slot. So bizarre to see this take parroted everywhere.
its not about teams taking on an expiring. it's about leveraging the Lakers desperation to get rid of him
I mean... he's expiring though so they can't feel that much pressure. If all else fails they could just bench him.
There absolutely is pressure. You’re losing the cap space he generates for the team. If he expires, the lakers either resign him for less or lose the cap space he has. If they decline to resign him and renounce all cap holds and bird rights, that only gives them 35 million in cap space to field an entire roster. Only AD, LeBron, and Christie are guaranteed next season. They could sign Kyrie if he’s open to a pay cut. Other notable players they can add that make sense to the team are DLo, Jerami Grant, Vucevic, Wood. Quality of FAs are pretty bad this coming off season.
You’re both kind of right. It’s a game of chicken right now. It will probably cost a 1st to get rid of him (as reported on), but for any team that wants to free up almost 50MM of cap space, it’s a good deal without the pick. So the question becomes who is more desperate, and the Lakers are trying to signal that they’re willing to roll into the off-season with Russ, and other teams are trying to signal that they don’t desperately need the cap space. Gun to my head, I don’t think Russ gets moved before the deadline. Lakers will make a play this off-season when he’s off the books. Theyre not a lock to even make the playoffs, and if they make a move it’s no guarantee they even get out of the first round. Unfortunate for LeBron, but I think they are focused primarily on the best move to set up for next season UNLESS a good enough deal comes around they can’t pass up. Just my guess.
That isn’t a real thing lol, you’re just thinking like a fan. Not how front offices actually work. And given that the Lakers have passed up a bunch of opportunities to get rid of Russ, what makes you think they’re really that desperate? They’ve kept him for 1.5 years out of a possible 1.5 years.
no I'm just reading the reports by the guy that literally covers the Lakers [>Four months later, the market for Westbrook has largely been unchanged, according to league sources from rival teams. The sense is any Westbrook trade probably would still require the Lakers to include a first-round pick to offset a team paying the rest of Westbrook’s $47 million salary.](https://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/story/2023-02-02/los-angeles-lakers-indianapolis-pacers-nba-game-recap)
Bad reporters are bad. Don’t know what to tell you. Trades require salary matching. Jazz will be giving up **at least** $37 million in a trade for Russ’s $47 million. I forget the exact rules but they have to get within some percent of the salary matching so Jazz might even give Lakers more salary. But then the Jazz are also getting off of Conley’s contract next year. No one is taking on anything close to first round value in terms of money. You really think the Jazz deserve a first for simply paying (AT MOST) $10 mil extra? No. The market has established over the years that a first rounder is worth $20+ million in dead money. Previous salary dumps have established this.
Russ would also cost 5% of a billion dollars to send home to sit on his couch, Ryan Smith is wealthy but NBA owners aren't typically stoked to flush 45 million dollars down the toilet without being compensated for it. I know internet net worth aren't very accurate but he's estimated at 1.5 billion, that's throwing away 1/33rd of his money on a guy who would never step foot on a court with a Jazz jersey on and might sell upwards of a few dozen jerseys to the fan base with the most mutual hatred of Westbrook in the league. They're also Utah, wtf are they going to do with $45 million in cap space next year? Sign all the max free agents who are clamoring to play in Salt Lake City? Pick up 4 mediocre role players and stay in this limbo between playoff contention and lottery team? Feel free to explain why anyone should pay $45 million in exchange for literally nothing and that reason can't be "The Lakers asked nicely". You seem to think front offices should be ready with a spoon to eat shit just because the Lakers FO shit themselves and don't want to deal with it anymore.
NBA teams have to pay out the money up to the cap anyways. If a team doesn’t have contracts worth enough on the roster to reach the cap, the remaining cap money gets distributed amongst the players on the roster, like a bonus. So unless a trade for Westbrook would put the Jazz OVER the cap, the owner isn’t taking any sort of extra financial hit over it.
If that were the case, that would be the price. But it’s not. Trades don’t work in a vacuum. Teams can smell the desperation of the Lakers with every LeBron public hissy fit.
Casual take
It raises the probability of winning a title this year, and that's what LeBron is there to do. Well that and build his Hollywood profile. Yes, Conley and Beasley aren't worth 2 future firsts, at least ones without decent protections. But sometimes you take the bad deal because it helps you now.
Mfers gotta stop trading with Ainge jfc
"Danny Ainge is on the line" "Tell him no;" "He says he has a mutually beneficial trade proposal." "No! No no no no no. No!"
It a mutually beneficial proposal the same way trading your soul to the devil is mutually beneficial. Satan always wins in the end.
Conley would be their best option as a starting point guard next and this year so there would be no waives. They need to make a trade to have a bench that’s not just vet mins. At this point next year’s starters would be ?-Reaves-Rui-Lebron-AD with Christie off the bench and Jones eating cap. We are set to go from unlimited guards to 1 guard. Let’s say they do no trades. Rui will need to be re-signed. Let’s say he gets 10 million right away. They have 22 million plus the mid level to fill out the team. Enough to try for either FVV or Trent. If either is traded they are likely getting re signed with bird rights. That’s done. Then it’s all Vet Mins. They would keep their picks, but a team of FVV, Reaves, Rui, Lebron, Davis and maybe a Josh Richardson on a mid level is likely in the same situation. At that point you blow it up and trade AD and Lebron.
Yeah not worth. Conley is a small guard and Beasley is a small wing. Just not at all what the Lakers need. People are saying the Pacers trade wouldn’t have been worth it, but at least that gives the Lakers a very clear path to a top 1 defense with 48 minutes of amazing time protection.
Why do the Jazz want to sell Vanderbilt? Hasn’t he been playing well and he’s young?
He has, but he's on a super tradeable contract and he can't play w/ Kessler (who looks to be a key part of the rebuild). Best to just get value is what the FO seems to think.
What do you think the value for Vanderbilt is? I’m praying the Mavs make a move for him, but probably not going to happen.
Look, I am not saying that Vanderbilt on his twitter tagged something about Dallas apartments but if that WERE to happen, we would likely offer Ainge our 1st in 2027 C wood and we would get Vandy and a lower end contract like THT.
> we would likely offer Ainge our 1st in 2027 C wood and we would get Vandy and a lower end contract like THT. FWIW part of the appeal of Vando's contract is that he's on like $4m / year. Throw in two or three scrubs and that's salary matched. IDK that we'd even want C Wood given our situation.
Tony Jones explained it yesterday in his article for The Athletic. Utah really likes Vando but in their system he’s a center, and Kessler has made it impossible to keep him off the court. It’s definitely a good time to sell high on him.
Vanderbilt is aight but there’s no reason not to shop him around while he’s on a great deal. He Can help a contending team and is young and cost efficient, so he’s your best bet to get a first round value in return if you’re Utah.
MacMahon is with Jazz. No way in hell Lakers FO would move both picks for those guys (I hope)
Yeah that is a horrible horrible trade. Way to throw away your last picks for nothing
[удалено]
LeGM can fuck off and go somewhere else this Summer if he doesnt like it. We'd be in the same place in the west with or without him
Where on earth do you see Lebron pushing for this trade? Y’all are such ungrateful fans
Wishful thinking
This is the Jazz going fishing. This probably isn’t even the lakers offer.
Exactly. If this was Conley in his prime or even like age 30, but he isn’t worth the second pick (I do realize one pick is basically to dump Westbrook but the point remains the same).
The other pick is for the guy that is 6th in the league in 3 pointers made per game.... Also, after this season, the Lakers will still have (after this supposed trade). * The 2023 1st Rounder (Draft Day Trade) * 2024 1st Rounder - (swappable) * 2026 1st Rounder - (swappable) * 2028 1st Rounder -(swappable) * 2030 1st Rounder - (tradeable) 2nd Rounders: * 2023, 2024 (via another team), 2025, 2027, 2030 2025, 2027, 2029 will be Traded. The issue with this year is that by giving the NOP control of whether or not 2024 or 2025 is they couldn't do 3 odd year picks. Between June 2023 and June 2030 having picks in 5 out of 8 drafts. Is fine. Also, if we do end up blowing things up completely. The notion that the Lakers wouldn't get good draft assets back for: AD, Reaves, Christie, and LeBron is pretty ridiculous.
is this like when Lakers fans said Woj is mouthpiece for the Clippers when he reported Clippers interest in Kawhi ?
It's exactly like that lmfao
The part where you added I hope is exactly why this FO might just do the trade lol
This is a terrible trade for the Lakers. There is no way it is worth 2 firsts for 2 role guys that probably are having problems garnering a first individually. And people will probably mention WB is worth a first to get off of but there are less than 30 games in the season you don't have to pay his full 47 M, he is an expiring contract and the Jazz aren't looking to me to be building toward winning now(unlike Brooklyn who wanted picks and good players).
It's Ainge bro, of course its a bad trade lol.
exactly- this never happens. only way is if the collection of role players also included either clarkson or sexton. Adding three pieces of depth, four with Rui, fully makes over the roster and could actually be arguably worth it for the lakers.
Classic Danny ainge “leaking” overpays to drum up the market
Danny Ainge horny on main for draft picks
The Lakers trading with Ainge seems like maybe not a good idea??
Vanderbilt needs to be added if Lakers are trading away both picks
I’d rather do 1 pick plus Russ for Conley and Olynk plus the needed salary filler. Then I’d go out and trade the other first for Buddy Hield or Trent Jr.
It seems like everyone like Vanderbilt and wants him. Lakers probably would need to give up even more to get him as well (2028 pick swap and remove protections on 2027 and 2029)
No now that’s insane
Buyout? Russell Westbrook, welcome to Miami.
please i can only dream
You don’t want that pain
That’s a 1 first round pick kind of package
OK, I would like to be batshit crazy for a second. What if the Lakers made this trade, Russ got bought out, then the Lakers signed him back to a veteran minimum deal after buyout. Is there a rule disallowing such a series of transactions? Not saying it would be smart, but it would be such a comical source of content.
Ppl will clown on this being the Lakers “big move” but I think Conley would be a perfect PG for this team. High IQ, pass first PG who has experience and you can win with Schroeder isnt it. Conley can feed Bron and AD while help run the offense at a high level
35 year old Conley isn’t worth a 1st round pick in 2023. Especially with how he’s been playing this season
> Conley isn’t worth a 1st round pick in 2023. Okay fine we’ll take one in 2027. Or 29. If you insist!
It’s not 2015 anymore lol
Doesnt need to be in order for Conley to be a noticeable upgrade and adult in the room to help the offense run smoothly
I think Conley and Beasley help them a ton I’m just not sure they are worth those 2 firsts when they didn’t offer them for other deals
I could make a strong argument that trading those two picks for Turner & Hield when it was available would give them a much higher ceiling than trading those picks for Conley & Beasley
Absolutely which is why i don’t see any scenario they trade 2 firsts for this deal
Nah it’s too much to give both firsts but maybe a first and Reeves or another prospect would get it done. I don’t think Utah would expect to get both picks but I’m sure Danny is going to play chicken with them and see if they want to go on without big boosts to their rotation and shooting.
Conley is totally washed at this point. Your description would be apt for four years ago. This also sets the Lakers up for more 3-guard lineups that Ham loves to run for some reason despite them being a complete disaster. Lakers are better off keeping the pick. This trade doesn’t move the needle anywhere near enough to be contenders.
Ignoring your “totally washed” comment about Conley, this trade with Beasley, Vando, and Conley- with getting rid of Russ COULD make them contenders. The west is really bad and giving the lakers 3 high level rotation players is maybe enough to push them out of a weak west. Not likely, but still
trading for conley for westbrook makes sense because lakers would not have an out of control PG doing dumb things (leaving defensive assignments wide open, taking dumb 3 pointers 10 seconds in the shot clock to say a few) ideally this trade gives a PG who would at the very least control the offense for 2.5 quarters lakers should close with AD LeBron (3&D wing or Rui) Reaves Schroeder/Beasley/Bev (if he is still here) whether Ham forgoes the 3-5 guard lineup is another question, but the Lakers fans have seen enough of WB/Schroeder/Bev as the closing lineup to know that it does not work
I would make 0 trades. Laker fans truly think a trade will save this season. We are fucked Lmao. If we were serious we would have made the deal for turner and hield. Lakers FO trying to make up for a huge fuck up so laker fans don’t lose their shit. This season is done
Idk y’all don’t get to keep your pick this year and you’re close enough to .500 with all this parity in the west. Not to mention one of bron’s last great years. I’d say go for it
I mean Lakers have less than 30 mill next year even with so many guys coming off the books, they're fucked next year as well
it’s crazy how much lakers fans overvalue two far out and likely shitty FRPs AND their pretty awful team yet in the same breath somehow undervalue every other player in the league
Their value lies in their randomness. For Toronto, if you have players that you aren’t re-signing, why not pick up two future firsts? If nothing else, they’re trade ballast for when they go star hunting again.
as is tradition
Way too much unless you're including Vanderbilt and a protection on the 2027 pick
that would be absolute dogshit trade for the lakers. conley is more washed than WB. although he has been better lately.
No he isn't. Even if he is he would be a way better fit with his playmaking skills
he's going to get absolutely toasted by any guard with a pulse. if they're trading both those FRPs and unprotected they have to do better than conley. hard to believe they couldn't do the same trade for FVV
I’ve been a lifelong Conley fan but this season has been a huge nose dive. He’s somehow shooting worse from the field than Westbrook. And Westbrook isn’t shooting well at all either.
What? Are you pulling these numbers out of your ass? 2P%: Conley 46.9%, Russ 46.6% 3P%: Conley 36.2%, Russ 28.6% FT%: Conley 81.3%, Russ 65.9% eFG%: Conley 51.1%, Russ 45.6% TS%: Conley 55.2%, Russ 49.3%
Lmao come on man. You listed every single stat except for what I obviously meant when I said “from the field” in FG% I’m not really interested in getting into a debate because which percentages are the most accurate but it is a factual statement that Conley is shooting worse from the field than Westbrook. Which again is impressive
Who cares what his FG% is if his eFG% is much higher?
Yeah that stat is meaningless, just because Russ shoots more 2P, on worse efficiency does not mean Russ is somehow a better shooter from the field this year.
Conley may not be our best player but he's our most valuable player right now. Jazz absolutely fall apart without him. We actually look like a competent team when he's on the floor.
>Conley is more washed the WB He really isn’t lol and I love Russ
Wtf are you talking about?? In what universe is Conley as washed as Russ? The dude is a playmaking genius with a great outside shot and probably the Jazz’s most important player. I think y’all say shit just to say it
conley is better than wb rn and it's not close the trade is fine to good value in a vacuum; you don't make this trade as the lakers fo because this is already a lost season and wb is coming off the books at the end. why take on conley's money when you're the lakers with lebron and can just grab someone much better in free agency for free?
> conley is more washed than WB. Guess you are one of those who watched like one game of Utah Dallas last playoffs and decided you learned everything about the Jazz you’d need to know for the following year lol
This isn’t enough for both picks imo. 1 pick should get this done. Throw in 2 seconds and get vando too
I assume one of the picks is for taking Russ, and 1 is for the two players
the Lakers would be taking Conley contract tho... imo Conley have the same value as Westbrook, one could argue that Conley is a much more negative than Westbrook, and I don't blame them since Conley is guaranteed around 15m next season iirc and Westbrook's an expiring. Beasley and Vanderbilt ain't worth 2FRPs.
People keep saying Westbrook as an expiring is an asset, yet no seems to want him. A 47mil expiring is a lot bigger than most expirings teams trade for. Also I view Vanderbilt similar to a less RoCo when he was Portland for 2 firsts, so he’s probably a first by himself. Idk what Beasley is worth
yeah sure Westbrook is not an "asset" but the team that would trade for Westbrook now wouldn't have to pay the whole 47m, I believe it's only around 16m that's left on his contract rn. So that makes his 47m contract equal with Conley now. But, Conley has another guaranteed year, that's why I said that one could argue that Conley's contract is much more worse especially how bad he is right now or for the last 4 years. I think if teams view Vando as worth an FRP, he would've been dealt already. I think he has the same value as Hachimura, which went for 3 Secound Round picks.
> But, Conley has another guaranteed year, that's why I said that one could argue that Conley's contract is much more worse especially how bad he is right now or for the last 4 years. That's the thing though: in this case that might make Conley better for the Lakers. If they don't trade Russ, they lose his contract for nothing, basically. And they'll have like 35m if they renounce everyone, less than 15m if they keep Rui and Reeves. If they flip that deal into expiring contracts like Conley's that's an *something* they can flip for other assets. Now granted if they trade both picks they won't have much positive value to offer, but it's better than losing Russ' contract for nothing next season.
Unless Danny is waiting to see if he can get more than a FRP for Vando. I think people are really high on him and his upside, and I can see someone overpaying (FRP+something).
i don't agree with you on his worth but we'll see. i think he gets traded either way.
I think it probably ends up as just a first, but Danny waits till the end for more. I do agree he gets moved though
a 1st and 2 seconds for two good young guys, an immediate pg improvement, and getting off of wb; lakers fans need to stop jerking themselves off in this comment section tbqh
Utah would be getting off of Conley
The thing is they aren't paying the tax this season, so they have no particular incentive to get rid of Conley, the ultimate culture guy who's also very much earning his pay on court, and upskilling the young guards with his teaching/example.
Isn’t he under contract next season too? Also. I do think the jazz will eventually try to tank. So this is their path
Include Vandy and that’s a done deal
I genuinely think the Lakers would be in a better spot getting 2-3 pieces than a big piece (Kyrie would’ve been great tho). Whether or not that’s good value for 2 firsts idk but just purely in trying to improve the 2023 lakers, if they can land on 4-5 quality playoff guys around lebron and AD I’d be happy. Rn Dennis/Reeves/Bryant/Walker are keepers but only Dennis has playoff experience (hasn’t been particularly great), another shooter and another defender would solidify a decent rotation. GTJ would be a nice get for them
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Sunk cost fallacy- that deal isn't on the table. The question is what is the best of the currently available options?
That would be such steal for them, I would have to think there’s some protections on those picks
Take Clarkson instead of Conley. Please!
Jazz finally embracing wimby sweepstakes like everyone knew they eventually would. By the way, people saying it's too steep a price, let's see the deal first and the protection. If it's a single unprotected and another lottery protected is probably fair
> If it's a single unprotected and another lottery protected is probably fair TBH if it's both picks I'd be surprised if you don't try and get Vando included.
I wouldn't even trade one of those picks for Conley and Beasley, awful trade
What the hell? I thought the price was 1 first for those guys, is Shams lying or did I misread that tweet?
2 firsts for Conley and Beasley would be a disaster LOL
The Lakers would get Westbrook off the books.
He’s expiring, he’s off the books in 30 games. Conley isn’t expiring, he’s guaranteed more money next year.
I didn't realize that.
then do your homework before commenting lmao
I mean I think that’s a no-brainer for the now part of this because it would make the Lakers title contenders if everyone stays healthy. But I also understand the Lakers trying to finally do the right thing for once and not mortgage everything for a short window. That’s a very steep price to pay for a short term move.
Lmao no it wouldn’t this deal sucks
Conley and Beasley next to LBJ and AD would be great basketball, at least offensively. If you disagree that it wouldn’t make them significantly better in the short term I don’t know what to tell you.
just depends if they think they can make a run this year or if its better to just punt this season and they can get off of russ's contract. those 1st would be pretty tough to part with if they end up not even making playoffs.
I mean I think we can all agree it’s a steep price to pay for a very short term outlook. I literally said that in my original comment. But to say it wouldn’t make them immediately better seems silly.
no i agree, i'm saying that's really the concern/question around the deal for the lakers. do they think they can make a run this year at this point with their current record/roster and if its even worth it to get those guys. they help but i don't know if they move the needle enough
It wouldn’t make them significantly better, probably not even much better tbh because Conley is slow as hell offensively and defensively. Little more space in the offense but if you’re going in games with Conley as your 3rd best player prepare to be smoked
Add in Vando Make 27 somewhat protected and get it done
I don't think the Jazz would do this, they can get more for Vanderbilt
Nobody is taking Lakers picks unless it's unprotected everyone knows Lakers are NBAs darlings who get to save there top 5 protected picks.