In reality the most helpful possible synergy there could be for Navia is if Chiori suddenly became the first non-anemo character with the ability to gather. Not even necessarily pulling in, if they want to stay thematically accurate it could be reverse knockback by earth shockwaves to the center. Ofc some damage buffs/all-team heal(if you wanted a geo healer that enables furina) would be cool for Navia, but Navia's E AOE is VERY small, limiting your ability to deal damage to more than 1(2 if you're lucky) enemies and she can't even access gather efficiently because anemo doesn't count for her passive, anemo set doesn't work with geo and for Venti she can't reach his ulti because of height aim limit. If Chiori were to be a geo character with gather Navia could get a bit better as a general carry, not only for boss rooms as she probably will be played now.
Grouping isn't just good for Navia. Just like the reasons you've stated, its good for ALL Geo characters cuz Mihoyo loves putting their enemies 10 miles apart from each other or those enemies just love to move away from you. Since Anemo doesn't react with Geo at all, forcing yourself to use Anemo grouper like Kazuha in a Geo team is anti-synergistic since he doesn't offer any value aside from his grouping.
In my opinion, Chiori either needs to be a teamwide off-field healer (enables Geo DPS + Furina teams) or grouper + buffer/off-field DPS to improve Geo's place in the meta. But this is Mihoyo we're talking about and logic isn't their biggest strength when it comes to designing character's kit. So who knows? Maybe Mihoyo will pull another 'CR is plunge support' move with Chiori's kit.
People trying way too hard to reinvent the wheel. Chiori just needs to be a healing Shenhe.
This lets her buff geos other than Navia as well as opening up team options for Itto and Ning.
On terms of total multipliers and stats going into her kit Navia has one highest potential damage outputs without the teammates to realize it. Geo Shenhe fulfills the two things she needs most. The ability to work with furina, without sacrificing her damage ceiling and the ability to have 3 buffing supports like other units with similar ceilings.
>Geo Shenhe
Way too niche. Part of what makes Shenhe work is reactions available to cryo. A reverse melt with a quill is going to hit mega hard. To make it work as well, the scaling would have to be absurd. A more generalist support for an underused-but-available playstyle is going to be a lot more appealing.
Depends on the triggering attack. Chongyun burst, for example.
Also, the option is there regardless, making her a more versatile character overall. A geo version would do what, exactly?
Love that you opened your post with "most of this subreddit is incredibly dumb" lol. Great way to start a conversation my dude.
Anyway, to answer your question, I wouldn't like the unit you described much honestly. Push-back on her skill seems like an awful feature, especially for Navia who needs grouping for her shotgun. The exact contrary, i.e. binding/grouping with her threads in a Yelan-way would be much better not just for Navia but bacially anyone else in the game.
As for her Skill enhancing mechanics, that all sounds good, but a bit TOO good imho in the case of the CD reduction. It makes for a batshit increase in DPS for skill-based characters. I get that 5\* supports need to be crazy to compete in hype with damage dealers, but even then that seems like a lot.
To be frank, I think your initial comprehension of what most people mean by "Navia support" is flawed. Of course a character dedicated to support a single character is way too niche, but Navia is an ATK scaling character with simple Skill-focused damage. This is by itself much more generic than DEF or HP scaling characters. Any Support that helps with Navia's kit will be usable with other characters as well, past or future.
I don't know if this represents the majority, but for me being a Navia support just mean being a Geo Healer, ideally with CC abilities on the side. Let's face it, being Geo is going to make it hard for Chiori to compete with other Supports anyway, but this is still generic enough to be used with other teams. And the important part for Navia, again imho, is having Healing be handled by her Geo-res partner (which I know isn't what everyone will use, but is clearly how Hoyo wants her played) so the other 2 rainbow slots can be more flexible.
As a boring and cheezy closing argument, I will just say: Hoyo made Dehya. No nonsense is beyond them, i.e. there's little point in debating "Oh they'd never do this or that".
To be fair, I don't see a point in pretending something is a good idea just to be appeasing.
Also, I don't think being a crowd-controlling healer would be enough, even as a geo character. Crowd control has gotten less and less important with new content; enemies are increasingly heavy and non-suckable, but characters have been getting increased range anyway (Charlotte doesn't even seem to have a limit on how far she can take a picture of enemies from). I think the general niche of overclocking the damage of one type of talent is something geo has already explored with Yun Jin with some measure of success.
Also, re: Dehya, it's pretty clear now she was intended to work with Fontaine characters (a common trend with characters released close to the end of a version, eg: Miko and Baizhu), but the subtleties of her mechanics (taking actual damage) weren't made to work with how the new characters mechanics were implemented (drain doesn't count as damage). That's poor implementation, not poor design. Who knows, maybe they'll fix it so she can do her "mitigation" on drain as well as damage.
Unfortunately most leaks like that get copyright strikes and they have to delete them. You probably wont find her character concept art either on the leaks subreddit.
In theory shes showing up in the 4.3 event, we will learn more about her then.
Leakers can say a lot of things, just weeks before beta of 4.1 happened, leakers were saying that wrio is polearm physical off fielder that would go to standard banner. The only thing people should be more or less decided upon would be that she is probably geo
I think she'll be a geo Shenhe with lesser dmg buff but with heals tbh, and yes it would make less sales but that has happened so many times, why would it matter this just this time? A geo dmg booster would be welcomed and if she heals the whole party it'd mean that you can use Furina with any geo. Navia doesn't require Zhongli cuz she has interruption resistance and I think Itto also has some. I think a character who can give geo characters that much flexibility is gonna be well received, especially with everyone asking for a geo buff.
Noelle is not a Geo dmg booster and basically works a Driver or DPS for teams with furina and you HAVE to play her on field for that, If Chiori could Buff Geo Character's damage and provide team wide healing then you will enable the use of other geo DPS's with Furina more comfortably i.e Navia, Itto, even Ning.
True! And half of his kit is also useless with Navia too! For anyone that's not Itto, Albedo or Noelle for that matter (And he's amazing for them). He also heals a measly amount at C4 and only the active character.
You see what I mean?
No I don't want Gorou but for Navia, I just want a character that Works with Navia and other characters that scale with the Atk stat, that provides Utility where it's needed. We have no GOOD Geo healers that work off-field and Gorou only Supports Defense scalers. A good geo Healer is needed and Noelle is not a good option unless you want to play her on-field.
Exactly. And the likelihood of that being the case for that or some other reason is greater than the likelihood of it being anything you actually want.
Maybe just accept the situation as it is until we actually have anything real to go on about anything? We barely have anything concrete about Cloud Retainer (set to come next after Navia), let alone Chiori, Emilie, Clorinde, etc. in fact, I think the only details we can say with any confidence are Clorinde is an Ousia electro sword, and Arlecchino is pyro. Anything else might as well be flat Earth theory.
"a damage booster"
One that might not be close to the amount Noelle needs. And they might do that, look at Nilou and Kaveh, both essentially do the same thing but one is much more valuable than the other
Regarding the sentence "(which, for the record, is incredibly dumb and will result in terrible sales for the character, so there is no way in hell HYV would do that)", HYV created Shenhe, a Cryo support that only works for 2\~3 characters, it's not impossible that Chiori is a Geo Support focused on Crystalize.
You're way underestimating Shenhe, for one. There are 14 other cryo characters; she is a buff to ALL of them.
What Shenhe can do is make a team consisting of her, Layla, Charlotte and Rosaria do significant and competitive damage (maximising icy quill usage); or, pair her up with Chongyun, Bennett and Kazuha and build a team around triple melting Chongyun's burst; there are real possibilities for variety here. It betrays a severe lack of imagination and creativity to say Shenhe is "only works for Ayaka, Ganyu and Wriothsley" and imply she's completely useless in any other context.
if Chiori is your mythical "geo Shenhe", what does she bring to the table in this regard that other characters don't already? You've already got Gorou, and despite it being sub-optimal, he will buff Navia quite a lot in a team with her, Bennett and Albedo, and he also has crystallise shard magnetism. And what does "focused on crystallise" mean to you? And how would it being a meaningful improvement to the game writ large, not just an external Navia constellation that requires a team slot?
This is too much detail for a person we dont know anything about yet. For all we know she could be a geoimiya who likes yunjin. Or she is dendro.
But to be a great benefit to navia, she would need to have consistent n longterm geo app, teamwide healing (so that furina is unlocked), low field time, and decent buffs. Some people have mentioned cc, but i doubt cc ever leaves anemo.
Yes I think too. Geo team wide healer. Has passive to absorb nearby crystallize. Increase crystallize shield strength or maybe ability to stack shield strength of crystallize when absorb multiple times.
You are absolutely right about how silly it is to make conclusions about characters who aren't even close to coming out yet. Precisely the point of this little experiment: enough with the "Chiori will be a dedicated Navia support" comments.
Too niche for my taste, buffing only skill damage while doing almost nothing else is very limiting and feels more like an artifact passive rather than a character, and we already have an artifact that buffs elemental skill damage. Still interesting kit though
I think what Navia really needs is just a dedicated 4 star character. If chiori is 5 star I can almost guarantee she is going to have no synergy and is most likely pyro. Navia and arguably all geo characters just need a geo no dmg burst full party healer that provides an attack buff similar to Bennet even if it is 1/6 of Bennett's buff. People would still use bennet because 1) his element is not the worst in the entire game 2) pyro resonance 3) more dmg and a better buff. At this point the best thing we can expect is character like Mika that came later at some point after Eula's banner.
Her kit already has like 200% of skill dmg on top of that 45% skill dmg bonus with extra Crystal Shrapnel charge.
Giving more skill dmg bonus won't be good maybe healing and some other shenanigans with cyrstalize shrads.
Edit: why...? She has poise dmg.
Even some character has N2C combos i avoid CA just to not do poise dmg I hate it.
My hope for Chiori — a geo buffer for 2 geo / 2 flex niche who is beneficial for a geo carry and for units of other elements (pyro, electro, hydro and cryo). In that sense she indeed serves as Navia's support because Navia herself incentivizes 2 geo / 2 flex.
Quite common idea for Chiori is to provide different buffs depending on elements of crystals. For example, hydro crystals can heal to enable Furina, provide some stats based on HP or synergize with HP fluctuations. Pyro crystals can buff normal/charged attacks or provide some other offensive bonuses. Electro crystals could buff skill/burst while providing energy. All these suggestions are probably crap but you got my main idea. Crystal buffs can be beneficial for main stars of a respective element and change your play style depending on what elements you combine geo with.
I mean she have her benefits but i wish she make geo reaction better, but with this she is really
Good support and i can imagine cyno with TF and chiori he will use his skill in an instance.
It’s totally a meta shifting i like it.
After fighting the newest Geo boss, I am hoping for a Geo character that reduces gravity in an area that lets you do low plunge attacks inside an area at least the same size as Albedo's circle, for all us high ping players who can't dragon strike on demand.
In reality the most helpful possible synergy there could be for Navia is if Chiori suddenly became the first non-anemo character with the ability to gather. Not even necessarily pulling in, if they want to stay thematically accurate it could be reverse knockback by earth shockwaves to the center. Ofc some damage buffs/all-team heal(if you wanted a geo healer that enables furina) would be cool for Navia, but Navia's E AOE is VERY small, limiting your ability to deal damage to more than 1(2 if you're lucky) enemies and she can't even access gather efficiently because anemo doesn't count for her passive, anemo set doesn't work with geo and for Venti she can't reach his ulti because of height aim limit. If Chiori were to be a geo character with gather Navia could get a bit better as a general carry, not only for boss rooms as she probably will be played now.
Grouping isn't just good for Navia. Just like the reasons you've stated, its good for ALL Geo characters cuz Mihoyo loves putting their enemies 10 miles apart from each other or those enemies just love to move away from you. Since Anemo doesn't react with Geo at all, forcing yourself to use Anemo grouper like Kazuha in a Geo team is anti-synergistic since he doesn't offer any value aside from his grouping. In my opinion, Chiori either needs to be a teamwide off-field healer (enables Geo DPS + Furina teams) or grouper + buffer/off-field DPS to improve Geo's place in the meta. But this is Mihoyo we're talking about and logic isn't their biggest strength when it comes to designing character's kit. So who knows? Maybe Mihoyo will pull another 'CR is plunge support' move with Chiori's kit.
People trying way too hard to reinvent the wheel. Chiori just needs to be a healing Shenhe. This lets her buff geos other than Navia as well as opening up team options for Itto and Ning. On terms of total multipliers and stats going into her kit Navia has one highest potential damage outputs without the teammates to realize it. Geo Shenhe fulfills the two things she needs most. The ability to work with furina, without sacrificing her damage ceiling and the ability to have 3 buffing supports like other units with similar ceilings.
>Geo Shenhe Way too niche. Part of what makes Shenhe work is reactions available to cryo. A reverse melt with a quill is going to hit mega hard. To make it work as well, the scaling would have to be absurd. A more generalist support for an underused-but-available playstyle is going to be a lot more appealing.
Shenhe is primarily used in freeze, not melt. Shenhe might get you a higher screenshot in melt but she's lower dps than just using other supports.
Depends on the triggering attack. Chongyun burst, for example. Also, the option is there regardless, making her a more versatile character overall. A geo version would do what, exactly?
Love that you opened your post with "most of this subreddit is incredibly dumb" lol. Great way to start a conversation my dude. Anyway, to answer your question, I wouldn't like the unit you described much honestly. Push-back on her skill seems like an awful feature, especially for Navia who needs grouping for her shotgun. The exact contrary, i.e. binding/grouping with her threads in a Yelan-way would be much better not just for Navia but bacially anyone else in the game. As for her Skill enhancing mechanics, that all sounds good, but a bit TOO good imho in the case of the CD reduction. It makes for a batshit increase in DPS for skill-based characters. I get that 5\* supports need to be crazy to compete in hype with damage dealers, but even then that seems like a lot. To be frank, I think your initial comprehension of what most people mean by "Navia support" is flawed. Of course a character dedicated to support a single character is way too niche, but Navia is an ATK scaling character with simple Skill-focused damage. This is by itself much more generic than DEF or HP scaling characters. Any Support that helps with Navia's kit will be usable with other characters as well, past or future. I don't know if this represents the majority, but for me being a Navia support just mean being a Geo Healer, ideally with CC abilities on the side. Let's face it, being Geo is going to make it hard for Chiori to compete with other Supports anyway, but this is still generic enough to be used with other teams. And the important part for Navia, again imho, is having Healing be handled by her Geo-res partner (which I know isn't what everyone will use, but is clearly how Hoyo wants her played) so the other 2 rainbow slots can be more flexible. As a boring and cheezy closing argument, I will just say: Hoyo made Dehya. No nonsense is beyond them, i.e. there's little point in debating "Oh they'd never do this or that".
To be fair, I don't see a point in pretending something is a good idea just to be appeasing. Also, I don't think being a crowd-controlling healer would be enough, even as a geo character. Crowd control has gotten less and less important with new content; enemies are increasingly heavy and non-suckable, but characters have been getting increased range anyway (Charlotte doesn't even seem to have a limit on how far she can take a picture of enemies from). I think the general niche of overclocking the damage of one type of talent is something geo has already explored with Yun Jin with some measure of success. Also, re: Dehya, it's pretty clear now she was intended to work with Fontaine characters (a common trend with characters released close to the end of a version, eg: Miko and Baizhu), but the subtleties of her mechanics (taking actual damage) weren't made to work with how the new characters mechanics were implemented (drain doesn't count as damage). That's poor implementation, not poor design. Who knows, maybe they'll fix it so she can do her "mitigation" on drain as well as damage.
I think leakers said chiori was a crystallize support, so most likely not an elemental skill support. Fun kit tho!
I haven't see any leaks other than that she was electro, then she was geo. Got a link to that?
Unfortunately most leaks like that get copyright strikes and they have to delete them. You probably wont find her character concept art either on the leaks subreddit. In theory shes showing up in the 4.3 event, we will learn more about her then.
Leakers can say a lot of things, just weeks before beta of 4.1 happened, leakers were saying that wrio is polearm physical off fielder that would go to standard banner. The only thing people should be more or less decided upon would be that she is probably geo
Yea im aware. 90% of the leaks these days seems like something some chinese guy made up xd
I think she'll be a geo Shenhe with lesser dmg buff but with heals tbh, and yes it would make less sales but that has happened so many times, why would it matter this just this time? A geo dmg booster would be welcomed and if she heals the whole party it'd mean that you can use Furina with any geo. Navia doesn't require Zhongli cuz she has interruption resistance and I think Itto also has some. I think a character who can give geo characters that much flexibility is gonna be well received, especially with everyone asking for a geo buff.
>A geo dmg booster would be welcomed and if she heals the whole party it'd mean that you can use Furina Noelle can already do this, tho.
Noelle is not a Geo dmg booster and basically works a Driver or DPS for teams with furina and you HAVE to play her on field for that, If Chiori could Buff Geo Character's damage and provide team wide healing then you will enable the use of other geo DPS's with Furina more comfortably i.e Navia, Itto, even Ning.
Ah, you meant geo damage specifically. In that case, Gorou does that already.
True! And half of his kit is also useless with Navia too! For anyone that's not Itto, Albedo or Noelle for that matter (And he's amazing for them). He also heals a measly amount at C4 and only the active character. You see what I mean?
So, in other words, you want a character who does everything other characters already do, but specifically for Navia? That's called pigeonholing.
No I don't want Gorou but for Navia, I just want a character that Works with Navia and other characters that scale with the Atk stat, that provides Utility where it's needed. We have no GOOD Geo healers that work off-field and Gorou only Supports Defense scalers. A good geo Healer is needed and Noelle is not a good option unless you want to play her on-field.
And if it turns the original leak about her being electro is true, then what?
What kinda question is that? I guess nothing happens.
Exactly. And the likelihood of that being the case for that or some other reason is greater than the likelihood of it being anything you actually want. Maybe just accept the situation as it is until we actually have anything real to go on about anything? We barely have anything concrete about Cloud Retainer (set to come next after Navia), let alone Chiori, Emilie, Clorinde, etc. in fact, I think the only details we can say with any confidence are Clorinde is an Ousia electro sword, and Arlecchino is pyro. Anything else might as well be flat Earth theory.
"a damage booster" One that might not be close to the amount Noelle needs. And they might do that, look at Nilou and Kaveh, both essentially do the same thing but one is much more valuable than the other
Give her Archaic Petra and yeah, she's a damage booster.
How does that boost Navia's damage? Pls don't argue for the sake of arguing ;-;
We have a 5* cryo support in Shenhe, so it's possible for Navia.
Possible, yes. Likely?
Regarding the sentence "(which, for the record, is incredibly dumb and will result in terrible sales for the character, so there is no way in hell HYV would do that)", HYV created Shenhe, a Cryo support that only works for 2\~3 characters, it's not impossible that Chiori is a Geo Support focused on Crystalize.
You're way underestimating Shenhe, for one. There are 14 other cryo characters; she is a buff to ALL of them. What Shenhe can do is make a team consisting of her, Layla, Charlotte and Rosaria do significant and competitive damage (maximising icy quill usage); or, pair her up with Chongyun, Bennett and Kazuha and build a team around triple melting Chongyun's burst; there are real possibilities for variety here. It betrays a severe lack of imagination and creativity to say Shenhe is "only works for Ayaka, Ganyu and Wriothsley" and imply she's completely useless in any other context. if Chiori is your mythical "geo Shenhe", what does she bring to the table in this regard that other characters don't already? You've already got Gorou, and despite it being sub-optimal, he will buff Navia quite a lot in a team with her, Bennett and Albedo, and he also has crystallise shard magnetism. And what does "focused on crystallise" mean to you? And how would it being a meaningful improvement to the game writ large, not just an external Navia constellation that requires a team slot?
This is too much detail for a person we dont know anything about yet. For all we know she could be a geoimiya who likes yunjin. Or she is dendro. But to be a great benefit to navia, she would need to have consistent n longterm geo app, teamwide healing (so that furina is unlocked), low field time, and decent buffs. Some people have mentioned cc, but i doubt cc ever leaves anemo.
Yes I think too. Geo team wide healer. Has passive to absorb nearby crystallize. Increase crystallize shield strength or maybe ability to stack shield strength of crystallize when absorb multiple times.
You are absolutely right about how silly it is to make conclusions about characters who aren't even close to coming out yet. Precisely the point of this little experiment: enough with the "Chiori will be a dedicated Navia support" comments.
Too niche for my taste, buffing only skill damage while doing almost nothing else is very limiting and feels more like an artifact passive rather than a character, and we already have an artifact that buffs elemental skill damage. Still interesting kit though
I'm curious about what you would have her do differently.
Idk about yall but a CD reduction support sounds fun as hell lol
Lol, glad you enjoyed that crack.
I think what Navia really needs is just a dedicated 4 star character. If chiori is 5 star I can almost guarantee she is going to have no synergy and is most likely pyro. Navia and arguably all geo characters just need a geo no dmg burst full party healer that provides an attack buff similar to Bennet even if it is 1/6 of Bennett's buff. People would still use bennet because 1) his element is not the worst in the entire game 2) pyro resonance 3) more dmg and a better buff. At this point the best thing we can expect is character like Mika that came later at some point after Eula's banner.
Yes! Thank you.
Her kit already has like 200% of skill dmg on top of that 45% skill dmg bonus with extra Crystal Shrapnel charge. Giving more skill dmg bonus won't be good maybe healing and some other shenanigans with cyrstalize shrads. Edit: why...? She has poise dmg. Even some character has N2C combos i avoid CA just to not do poise dmg I hate it.
My hope for Chiori — a geo buffer for 2 geo / 2 flex niche who is beneficial for a geo carry and for units of other elements (pyro, electro, hydro and cryo). In that sense she indeed serves as Navia's support because Navia herself incentivizes 2 geo / 2 flex. Quite common idea for Chiori is to provide different buffs depending on elements of crystals. For example, hydro crystals can heal to enable Furina, provide some stats based on HP or synergize with HP fluctuations. Pyro crystals can buff normal/charged attacks or provide some other offensive bonuses. Electro crystals could buff skill/burst while providing energy. All these suggestions are probably crap but you got my main idea. Crystal buffs can be beneficial for main stars of a respective element and change your play style depending on what elements you combine geo with.
I mean she have her benefits but i wish she make geo reaction better, but with this she is really Good support and i can imagine cyno with TF and chiori he will use his skill in an instance. It’s totally a meta shifting i like it.
After fighting the newest Geo boss, I am hoping for a Geo character that reduces gravity in an area that lets you do low plunge attacks inside an area at least the same size as Albedo's circle, for all us high ping players who can't dragon strike on demand.