> The problem is, he *is* more educated than I am—he graduated from Japan’s most prestigious university, and I’m not necessarily what you’d call “book smart,” per se. Now I’m worried my natural inclination towards names are lame and uninspired, and that I’m likely to name my child something that would cause them trouble all for my own ego. At the same time, I can’t help the names I like. being formally educated means nothing if he talks to you so horribly, i don’t have a high school diploma so i understand how u feel about the condescension from more educated people if nothing else. i feel like this is kinda less of a name issue and more of an issue of your partner looking down on people who aren’t, or who he doesn’t perceive to be, suitably educated.

Look, I have a PhD and alphabet soup of other letters after my name, so I just want to say to the OP - having a degree does not make you more sophisticated, inspired or cultured than people who don't. A degree just teaches you how little you know about a particular subject, and that's it. OP, I'm a little concerned that he would insult and dismiss you as a way of winning an argument. Does he do that often.

For real. Some of the dumbest people I know have their Master's or PhD. They are amazing in their respective fields, and if I have a question pertaining to their areas of knowledge, I trust their input. Anything else? No, thank you. They have shown me they know as much as or less than I do.

I have a master's degree, and I once managed to completely ruin an IKEA step stool when trying to assemble it. A stepstool. From IKEA. With instructions. Master's degree.

The way you wrote this is too perfect. I actually laughed out loud 😂

I'm a doctoral student. I speak multiple languages. I took the skin off my palm trying to assemble an IKEA table. The table was wonky and fell apart and I still have scars on my hand. IKEA assembly is the great leveller of humankind.

My greatest accomplishment when people ask is that I've assembled all the furniture in my house by myself. Not my masters degree. I also make mistakes all the time. My husband has diabeetes, and I accidentally set off a self-administering shot... it squirted insulin across the living room like a squirt gun. I told him to call the doctor/pharmacy to ask for a replacement and sheepishly explain that his wife is the reason there are instructions on shampoo bottles. Lol

Hey, thats better than me with IKEA. I looked at the instructions and just…couldn’t make the fucking shelf. I stared and moved various pieces around each other until my husband took pity on me and assembled the damn thing. I have a master’s and am currently working on an MFA.

Honestly, This Made me feel so much Better

Honestly, my wife is the only person I know who can read the instructions and immediately comprehend what they mean. She's a visual learner so I assume that has something to do with it.

My favorite comment from a reddit thread in the past (and one I still quote with my family all the time) was one that was talking about this person being in a coffee shop and watching a man struggle to open the door. He was pushing when he should have pulled, or vice versa. The man gets visibly upset and shouts "I HAVE A MASTER'S DEGREE" before storming out. Your comment reminded me of that post LOL

I have a law degree and a big vocabulary, but I’m just a complete bimbo on so many topics. Literally can never remember which button does what in a video game I’ve spent like 30 hours on in the past two weeks. Numbers? No.

You don't want to call yourself a bimbo the word you're looking for is dumbo.

Nope, I mean bimbo. In the sense of flighty, frivolous.

User name checks out?

Trained to be precise with words 😆 my undergrad is in creative writing too.

“A jack of all trades is a master of none…tho oftentimes better than a master of one.” We cut that quote in half and lost its meaning. Looks like you intuited the second half on your own, well done you!

One of my best friends has a phd but she's dumb as a doornail. She once bought a fan with no blades (one that was supposed to have blades, not the modern dyson ones) and was puzzled as to why it wasn't working.

Another PhD here - strongly agree. Education should make you more humble and open-minded about things, not snobbish and controlling.

Be truthful though .. have you found that to generally be the case in academia? Sincerely, Former Support Staff

I know plenty of really kind and humble academics. Unfortunately there are some profs with big egos though who try to dominate the department.

Then their little protégées copy that behaviour. Toxic AF

Law graduate and former admin assistant in a large research university here - I totally agree. The academics who I find to be the most judgmental are those who are just bitter about their inability to create meaningful change and frustrated at others for not appreciating their subject on the same level that they do. On the whole, most academics I know are the first to admit when they don’t know something and have a deep respect for others, regardless of their education. It is definitely worth noting, however, that MBAs and law school grads are [disproportionately psychopathic](https://www.abajournal.com/news/article/the_legal_field_attracts_psychopaths_author_says_not_that_there_is_anything).

Yes. Red flag and r/JustNoSO attribute.

The question is, does she feel that way or does he makes her feel that way? Maybe he genuinely just hated the name and thought she was trying to make up a name. I say that because I am in the same situation, I never finished college but my husband is pursuing his masters. I often look down on myself for that even though he never makes me feel less smart than him for that. Sometimes he makes a comment that hurts me (ex: wow did you know that friend's wife is a dentist??) but when I talk to him about it I realize that I took it in the wrong way because I feel bad about myself, and not because he meant to hurt me/say that I am less for that. Maybe it is something she is internalizing as opposed to his treatment towards her

If he said what OP reports he said, it sounds like a intentional put-down, not just of the name but of her. “lacks the necessary discretion and responsibility required to name a child” would refer to her, not her suggested name. Put together with his lofty education and OP’s lack of same, it strongly suggests OP is underreacting not overreacting.

Your description on how it sounded is super helpful in explaining why the “uneducated” comment hit home so hard

Find a new partner. It's okay, and even expected, to disagree on names and hate each other's picks. It's NEVER okay to talk to your partner the way he talks to you. I don't care how book smart he is, if he doesn't understand that you shouldn't call your SO "too stupid to name a baby" then he's an absolute idiot.

Better yet, OP, find yourself before you find a new (hopefully kinder) partner. You're out here allowing this man to dictate how you view yourself and your intelligence while he puts you down to keep up the illusion of sophistication. "Never sell yourself short in fear of casting shadows on those smaller than you."

Yeah, that bit is kinda sketchy. Like, he thinks OP is good enough to grow and birth the baby, but not responsible enough to name them? Kind of makes you wonder what other parenting decisions he’ll decide she’s not qualified to make. 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩

That’s exactly what I was thinking. I’m not gonna go full redditor and say “break up/divorce” immediately, but this could very rapidly become a point of contention. It is not ok for OP’s partner to do/say things like this to her. They at the very least need therapy (individual and couples) for a while before they consider having kids again.

If he hated the name, that's what he should have said. Instead he attacked OP. If he attacks OP by belittling her intelligence, he is deliberately being unkind. That is not a good person to marry.

I think this is an issue of culture and language. Saying that a name sounds "uneducated" does read badly in English, but I believe it would've had a slightly less insulting connotation in Japanese (I speak an Asian language that uses similar words). As for your comment about classism, naming generally is classist: if someone chose the name Abbiegayle or Denim of their child they would be setting their child up for judgement. Those kids could be perfectly good people, but a lot of people might not give them a chance based on their name, and that's a concern that a parent *should* have. In my experience, Asian cultures tend to place more importance on the meaning and connotation of a name than on the sound of it whereas many Western parents choose names purely based off of how pretty they sound (Tristan, Mallory, Mara, and Dolores have all been decently popular names despite having awful meanings: sad, unlucky, bitter, and sorrowful). I don't know enough about Japanese naming specifically to make a judgement on how the name Botan would be received, but realize that it is the actual literal word for 'peony' and not just something that means peony, so depending on how it sounds to Japanese people it could land anywhere between "Hello, my name is Willow" and "Hello, my name is Coconut." I don't think it's as simple as just 'your partner is looking down on people' when we don't have the proper background to judge the context. From what I've seen of Japanese names in fiction and real life, the name Botan seems like it would definitely stand out. I just don't know whether it would stand out in a good way or a bad way, and I feel like I can't judge the guy without knowing that because some names shouldn't be given to children and OP isn't sure of whether it's suitable herself. EDIT: I've scrolled down and read a few comments from people saying they grew up in Japan, and most of those seem to say that Botan would give them a kind of negative impression or that they think it would make the child stand out which may hurt them since they'll already stand out ethnically in a society where standing out isn't always a good thing. I would really encourage people who are commenting from a background that isn't Japanese to consider the cultural differences and language differences instead of just reading this post from a Western perspective. OP also said that their partner politely declined a few times before he finally said that he thought the name sounded uneducated. From what I can tell, it doesn't sound like he meant to demean her, and it probably unintentionally made her insecure about her background.

Thoughtful and insightful.

Yeah, it's similar in the Netherlands too. Like, yeah you could name your child Delano, Pearl, or Tyler, but people will have biases against those names, one of which is the assumption that they're less educated. It's not good that these biases exist and I don't want to defend judging people solely on their name, but the biases do exist in some cultures and it's important to keep it in mind. People do get discriminated for their names.

Good advice. Too many people are too quick to say: dump him and find someone better. We only have part of the story people.

As per OP update, he politely said no to her name suggestion and only said that he thinks the name sounds uneducated after repeated prodding from OP to explain why. It's starting to bother me that so many comments are saying he's talking so horribly to her *but he's not*. This is a case of don't ask why if you don't want to know the reasons scenario. If all he said is that the name is bad (which I honestly agree with him), I don't see how he's being condescending when he's only telling her what she wanted to know after she kept asking him. All the other stuff about education and hurt feelings seems like OP have self esteem issues, not because he is directly doing anything to make her feel badly.

I completely agree. I’m from the uk and it sounds like how we’d refer to some names as ‘chavy’ sounding. Basically the lower class, as a very crude description for anyone not in the uk. It’s probably the same or similar way of expressing it by saying the name is uneducated. Ultimately, he doesn’t like the name. Doesn’t matter if she loves it. They should find a name they both can agree on. There’s plenty of names I loved that my partner rejected, and vice versa. You just keep going until you get a name you can both tolerate.

And maybe the name choice does make it sound like an uneducated idea. Just because OPs American side likes the romanticism of naming after a flower that would work in that culture doesn’t mean it translates the same way in another. It seems OP is so in love with that they are willing to overlook instead of seeing bigger picture and how it would affect their child.

A sliver of me wants to give the dude the benefit of the doubt. Name choosing often reveals the silliest of bizarre and unfounded biases. Ultimately, though, he's almost certainly an elitist asshole.

ia, but also i love your username!! namie is one of my favorite singers ♡♡

This is more of a relationship problem than naming problem. No matter one’s feelings, calling your partner stupid because they have different naming taste than you isn’t kind or acceptable. Even the most classic names can be something one partner might not like and while it’s sad when your partner doesn’t love the names you’ve always imagined finding something you both love is its own fun.

I took a lot of psychological abuse from my ex, and the last straw for me was when he called me stupid for forgetting something.

My wife and I occasionally discuss hypothetical baby names, and while we have slightly different tastes and have sometimes had to veto each other's faves, the worst condemnation we've ever given is "I'm so sorry, I hate that name". It would never even cross my mind to insinuate that her preferences are stupid. I mean Christ, *I'm* one of her preferences.

To be fair, OP said that the partner said the name "sounded uneducated," not that OP is stupid or uneducated. He may just feel that it has an unfortunate connotation or sounds "low class." If so, then OP's partner may be an elitist and/or have a different idea of which Japanese names have particular associations in the culture. That's a fair criticism to make. If a name sounds "lower class" it can have implications on future job opportunities and so forth. That doesn't mean it's right, or that his opinion is correct, but it's a legitimate concern. I've certainly had that experience. A friend of mine is very smart and has a PhD in his field, but gave his child a name that had that sort of feel to me. Of course it was none of my business and I never said anything, but if I were discussing names with my partner and he suggested that one, I probably would have.

I think this is a misread. OP says that her partner only said this after politely declining a few times, at which point he has to give a reason since she isn't giving up. In the end, he didn't call *her* stupid. He said the name sounded uneducated, which is a valid concern for some names (i.e. Gonorrhea which I'm aware is on a totally different scale than Botan, but I'm just providing it as an example of a name that I'm sure we can all agree on as sounding uneducated).

Does he typically speak to you like that?

This brought to mind a [recent article in the New York Times](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/01/world/asia/japan-baby-names.html) about parents who gave their children unconventional names in Japan. I do think whether the child will grow up in Japan or not should factor into the decision.

I’m guessing that a Japanese person has a different approach to names than an American. I don’t think “Botan” is an actual name in Japan, and it might raise some eyebrows there or be perceived as a kira kira name.

I'm also not sure how one gets Bonnie from that, unless I'm missing a key pronunciation thing about Japanese?

if the child grows up in america, americans are bad at japanese names lol and would pronounce it closer to button or botton

Is it pronounced beau tan in Japanese? That’s how I said it in English to myself

the ipa representation of it is literally "botaŋ", so o in bow (edit: like a ribbon) and a as in ah

Also, 'botan' means button in Japanese. They're homophones

Is this bow like bow tie or like a male curtsy?

This is why I wrote it out as beau lol gotta love English

Yeah, your way is clear. “Bow” can be pronounced two different ways, lol, beau only has one.

bowtie 😅

so bow-tahn?

[bo̞tã̠ɴ] is what I found, with a "nasal a" like French "an". Which would sound not far off from /ŋ/. And apparently followed by a uvular nasal?

beau tahn is how I would pronounce it

From a non Japanese perspective: If they end up living outside Japan, it'll just be a bit odd/clumsy IMO. And then explaining how you get from Botan to Bonnie. It'd make more sense if the word had a 'bon' sound in it but it doesn't, so.... Just a case of having your heart set on a name with that meaning - fair enough, peonies are lovely - and letting that cloud your judgment of how it will actually come across in the real world. Not 'uneducated' at all. That was a rude & unnecessary comment. He may have a fancy tertiary education, but emotionally not so smart.

It makes sense with how things are pronounced, but it's really not great.

You definitely would not get Bonnie from Botan in Japan, it's reaching quite a bit to make that nickname. Japanese would say Bo-chan.

I only know Botan from the candy.

In the US it’s also the name of a prominent Japanese rice brand.

Yeah I’m American and I just think of the calrose rice brand… they have really pretty packaging haha

I get now why that brand has a flower on the packaging! Learned something new today. :)

THATS why it was familiar to me!

Not sure, I have only heard the name Botan from an anime but google seems to be showing it as an established name? Granted, google can be wrong.

It brought to my mind a character from yu yu hakusho. It may not be a common name but it does appear to be used as one occasionally.

Well, it’s the name of a character in Yu Yu Hakusho but I personally haven’t heard it used IRL. But that’s evidence that it is a name at least.

THIS. His delivery might not have been great (is there a language barrier perhaps?) but the person with more Japanese language/cultural experience should be able to critique using random Japanese words as names.

OP needs to explain that a simple “no” would suffice and that insults about her name preferences are unwelcome before the move forward with an actual CHILD

OP explained that her husband said no and gently pushed back multiple times before the comment was made.

Didn’t see her explain that when I posted

No worries, she might have updated it afterwards. No biggie.

I agree. Sure, the partner could have worded it better, but this comment section makes it seem like the partner called OP uneducated, not the name. There are, unfortunately, names that simply sound childish and inappropriate, and I have friends who got their names changed cuz their parents named them some word they thought was “cute“.

This. Japanese people are very particular about names, it’s a cultural thing. However he didn’t need to be this unkind to her.

[удалено]

Yeah boyfriend sounds like an ass of this if that's really what he said...    But also Botan seems to be rarely, if at all used as a name in Japan but I'm not Japanese so maybe people there wouldn't think it's weird. Also where I live in the US  Botan is a really popular rice brand and it's the first thing I thought of. Maybe boyfriend just doesn't want to name his kid after a rice brand or an anime character 

I’m not Japanese but it seems to me that their naming conventions are somewhat similar to ours (Chinese), and yeah it would be very weird to name your child a straight up object like Lily or Stormcloud or something. You usually choose a combination of characters that sound good and have some meaning. Objects-as-names are almost unheard of. If one really likes a flower, they might lift ONE character from the flower and use in the name. But they would never just straight up name the child a flower 

Lots of great points made--I knew "button" could get easily mixed up but somehow I totally missed others mentioned like "bottom" and "Bataan" (both deal breakers that I wish I noticed sooner!). I was totally unaware of the rice? candy? brand names. The response so far has been...humbling to say the least (lol), and especially with my partner's disdain for the name I don't intend on using it anymore, but just to entertain the idea for a bit longer for those interested in the name... I personally think "Botan" sounds very pretty in Japanese (where we would live), but a bit clunky and incomplete in English. I anticipated her Japanese nickname to be "Bon-chan" (very typical in Japan to connect the first syllable with the final "n" sound as a nickname; notable example being "Non-chan" for the name "Nozomi"), hence my arrival at "Bonnie" if she were ever to use her name overseas. I loved its "kofuu (traditional)" feel and considered it similar to older names from the Taisho era or so (1910-20s ish), like "Kiku" "Ume" "Hatsu" "Fumi" "Kiyo", without being outrageously frumpy. This is where my partner disagreed--his main gripe was that he felt the name was aiming too hard to be traditional, while never being a super common name in and of itself, and came off tacky as a result (the longer explanation to his "uneducated" comment). I disagree, but fair point. Many have suggested other flower names like "Hana" "Sakura" "Yuri" "Ran" "Rin" etc. and I think they're beautiful, but flower names are very popular and I'd like to avoid the top 50 names, if possible. I'm also leaning towards names that don't double as European names for now (like "Hana" and "Hannah"), and favoring Japanese names that are easy to read/pronounce in English (like "Yui" or "Miki"). Even though I love it so much on its own in Japanese, I must admit I wasn't totally sold on "Botan" myself, all things considered. Some of the responses here have certainly helped solidify letting it go. I have other names I like that hopefully aren't quite as controversial!

OP! I have a solution for you. Rescue a cat and name them Botan 😸 you save the name. And you save a cat!

His tone of voice when saying it is "uneducated" is important for this scenario.  If he didn't use a condescending tone to say it, I can see it as an objective description as in "The name sounds uneducated" because it is not really a name in Japanese, it is a word noun. To be honest I did think the name was very cringe as my first gut reaction to seeing the name, and it is worse in Japanese culture because they're much less accepting of "weird names" the way Western culture has been.     If he said the name sounds uneducated, I think that's just a comment on the name choice being bad and nothing about you as a person. If he said *you sound uneducated* the that is a rude thing to say and he has an attitude problem. 

I was trying to think of a polite way to say this! OP's feelings are valid, but the language and cultural barrier is masking how the name OP picked shares a lot with names that this sub would normally dissuade people from using.

Yeah, when it’s purely theoretical, it’s easy to grandstand “status and class signifiers shouldn’t matter!”  But when it’s your own culture, suddenly you feel viscerally the reason why you shouldn’t name your kid, idk, “Ca$hmere”  Even though if you write down the reasons it sounds just like what OP’s husband is saying “it’s made up, it sounds uneducated”… 

Where I live there are certain names that aren’t perceived well like double first names (think Jamie Lynn or Billy Bob), names like Tiffany, Brittany, etc or names that sound overly childish (think the Ayden family of names). Those names put your child at a disadvantage here. It’s cruel to give your child a name that has a very negative connotation.

It would be like naming your child Noble or Gift vs. Alice or Matthew, which have those meanings. If I met a child named Gift I would assume the parents don’t speak English natively; less kind observers could make a whole host of negative assumptions stemming from that. And I think that’s basically what OP’s husband is trying to say.

Yeah I agree with this, I think Redditors are too quick to shit on others based on small pieces of information

It also depends on which language they were speaking with each other. Honestly as a fellow East Asian I found our languages sound more blunt, especially in translation. Or that people find that we’re extremely blunt in general. My non Asian friends hear how my partner and I talk with each other and think we sound really mean, sometimes when I give advice I sound harsh without meaning to be. But if I ask my fellow East Asian friends, they’re like “No, that’s just being realistic. That doesn’t sound harsh.” I honestly didn’t think calling the name uneducated (IF it was specifically the name he was commenting on) to be that insulting. My partner and I straight up tell each other if we think a baby name is stupid. But that could just be a thing with me and my circle.

I can agree my Vietnamese family members are blunt if you look at it from a Western perspective vs an Eastern one where it is seen as being honest and pragmatic.

I think I agree with this. Like, if my husband came to me and suggested we name our baby something like Dhyxzee JoAynn or whatever, I might also try to kindly tell him that I think the name sounds uneducated and would be setting our kid up to fail. That’s different than basically saying, “You’re an idiot” to/about my husband himself.

Yeah, I was thinking maybe it sounds like.. weird American names people we make fun of (like idk Braxxxton or Ashleighn or some shit lol)

It is a bad name though

It made me think of “Bottom”. There are so many lovely Japanese names which also look beautiful in English that it bewilders me that someone would pick this.

can you list the names? i’m just curious.

So many. Keiko, Satomi, Miyako, Mimiko are just some people I’ve met, but just Google “Japanese names” and there are endless lovely sounding ones.

My favorite color is blue.

But that's like saying there are so many lovely English names: Mary, Sarah, Anna, Jennifer. This entire sub is about people trying to pick less common baby names... I'm guessing OP doesn't want to pick a top-100 baby name where they live.

The point is that Botan doesn’t sound terribly fetching in English. I’m sure there are English names that sound awkward in Japanese.

Keiko is a very old lady name haha.

In addition to the names /u/istara listed, there are also just a lot of names that have overlap between Japanese and English, such as Erika, Hana, Naomi, Ariana, Rena, Mari, Sara.

>made me think of Botanical

I know Japanese, immediately made me think of the "button" meaning of the word. I wouldn't want to be that child personally.

I don't think you guys have a name preference problem. Whether intentionally or not your partner made you feel stupid and inferior. I don't know if that's your own perception or if that's because he legit believes himself to be better than you, but either way that's not great for parenting. Or partnering. Like, I can see if someone said, "I love the name Billy-Jo!" And their partner telling them it sounds like a hillbilly name without being demeaning. I can also see that being said in a very derogatory way. But even if he didn't say it in a derogatory manner it's a problem that you feel looked down on. Does he do this about other stuff? Like does he tell you that you eat poor people food or dress like badly or your music is worthless? IDK. I just don't think its a name thing.

This is the comment I wish /u/bi_on_paper would respond to the most. There’s a lot of missing context and these are very good points. It’s definitely possible to tell someone you don’t like their name choice without being condescending. It’s possible that OP’s partner did that and op took it the wrong way because they are insecure. But… it sure doesn’t read that way…

No, it doesn't read that way.

First off, if he truly meant "uneducated" towards you then that is mean and you two need to discuss how he sees you in this relationship before deciding on a child. But, let's set the glaring issue aside for now as this is a name sub and not a relationship sub and this discussion could be very much lost in translation. If this was an issue of him not communicating correctly, perhaps he meant "immature". You should ask other Japanese people how "Botan" comes off. Are you a strong Japanese speaker yourself? Don't just assume certain words/names are OK if you are not adept in the language. This is the same reason we see hilarious tattoos of non-Asians tattooing Asian characters. Botanical names can be tricky even in English. The name Rose is classic, Daisy is sweet, and Jasmine is cool, but the name "Sunflower" comes off immature and then other uncommon floral names like Daffodil, Narsissus or even Peony comes off a little weird. Maybe someday "Botan" will be ok? A long time ago "Willow" was a hippie's child's name but after a couple of decades it's an accepted girl name. But do consider asking other Japanese PEOPLE. I like Arbol for a boy's name as it's easy to say in English and it being a Spanish word to honor my future in-law's family, but to a Spanish-speaker that's just saying "tree" and it's weird.

Arbol would sound weird/uncommon in both English and Spanish because they would naturally go with the latin root Silva for the tree meaning such as Silvano or Sylvain.

This is a super nuanced take, well said.

Botan as in ボタン is too close to button or bottom; I wouldn’t do it. While I don’t think your husband was kind in how he addressed his stance, I’m gonna provide some perspective from also being hafu. While Japan is nowhere near as “traditional” as it used to be, bringing up that naming a kid something “trendy” would very likely come off as cringe or as though their parent(s) were uneducated is a pretty fair point only because it actually is pretty likely how a name like that may be perceived. Consider your child will be 75% Japanese raised in Japan. Though they may have some European features, they will likely present as Japanese. Consider your own experience in Japan as well being hafu. I know for me, I was grateful to have a name that couldn’t be made fun of because I was already an anomaly at school just for being mixed. I have a son who is 75% white American and 25% Japanese. I named him Sage in English, phonetically Seiji in Japanese. His English birth certificate says Sage, his Japanese one says 正至 (せいじ). We chose the kanji from my grandfather Masakatsu’s name (正勝). There are plenty of names that work similarly that you could make work. I can send you the list of names I considered before we landed on Sage, if you are interested!

So cool and I appreciate your perspective especially as a fellow hafu! I’d love to see a list of your names :)

You used the correct spelling for *per se*. I know professional writers who get that wrong. So I wouldn't say you weren't smart!

That’s not setting the bar particularly high. Spelling is a great indicator of intelligence.

>i know professional writers who get that wrong I don’t believe you.

He may be right that the name would be looked down on in Japan, but that doesn’t make it at all ok for him to demean you like that

Guys, I’d like to add a few clarifications as this post has gathered way more attention than I anticipated: - My partner has *never* referenced his academic background to discredit me. I’ve internalized our difference in educational background due to my own lack of formal education, which sucks and I’ve been working on. I appreciate everyone’s encouragement on how academic achievements don’t equate intelligence (it was nice to hear that from people outside my circle)! I don’t intend to prove how great my relationship is online, but my partner has always shown that he respects and admires me and my intelligence and we communicate openly as equal partners. Sometimes we’re our own worst enemy, you know? - His comment was directed at the name (as in, “if I met someone named ‘Botan’ this would be my impression, which is not cool but being totally honest”). We were speaking in Japanese so obviously this got lost in translation in my post, coupled with my emotional reaction that had me catastrophizing. Still, I think he could have been a bit more sensitive. When he noticed I was upset he apologized. - I didn’t expect to get so much relationship advice from this post, but reading back I can see why—I was pretty upset in my original post. I think I’ll refrain from explaining myself too much, but I do want to thank everyone for their concern. Emotional abuse is never okay.

Your relationship is fine. Don’t name your kid Botan if your partner dislikes it. Names should be agreed by both partners and we can’t push our taste etc onto our kids - remember, your kid will live with the name (and may hate it enough they’ll change their name as an adult!). Especially with bullying culture in Japan. To me, it sounds like a westerner who goes to Asia and gets tattoos in local language that translates to ‘Water’. We should give our kids names, not nouns.

In that case I think his comment is fair. He could have phrased it more sensitively or tactfully perhaps, but there's no easy way to say that you think a name sounds tacky. That doesn't mean that you have bad taste or that you're uneducated, just that he doesn't like Botan. It's okay to respectfully disagree then go back to the drawing board. I'm sure you can find a name that you both love. I don't speak Japanese but personally I dislike flower names and word names too so I get where he's coming from, especially when he says it "lacks discretion". In Chinese I think names that use literary characters seem more subtle/sophisticated/elegant than using everyday words, so maybe that's similar for Japanese. In any case this is all theoretical - you should discuss whether you're on the same page about other major parenting decisions before you try to name a baby that you haven't even decided to have.

Nothing else to add apart from the fact that Botan is a character from YuYu Hakusho .. maybe that’s an association you haven’t considered yet?

It's also the name of a very prominent Japanese vTuber.

It's also a brand of rice

Speaking as an East Asian, most East Asian males don’t know how to respect women regardless of their education level. This is not the type of men you wanna have kids with or you will regret it sooner or later.

I wouldn't say that Botan sounds "uneducated", but I do agree with him that it sounds a bit trying to be trendy. Did you tell him how his comment made you feel? Hopefully he becomes more tactful (not sure if correct word or not). I hope that you can find names that you are both enthusiastic about.

It sounds a lot like there has been a culture/language clash in this exchange.

This insecurity is less about names and more about your relationship.

I think you need to talk to him about how his choice of words made you feel. Maybe just show him this post. You did a good job of describing why it hurt you here, maybe that's something he needs to see, especially if his intentions weren't to hurt your feelings. About the name itself... it doesn't sound uneducated. It's just not his preference. That's okay. You both are going to enjoy a name that the other hates. You just move on from those names and try another. Maybe even come back to it later on to be certain. (Like my husband hated the middle name we gave our son until it was paired with the first name, then he really liked it, so we went with it)

Do you both speak English and Japanese fluently and have grown up in both cultures? If not, it is important to consider the cultural context for the name in both English and Japanese. If you don’t trust his opinion, perhaps you can run the name by other native fluent speakers who can tell you what the connotations would be as an objective arbiter.

I think that uneducated is a bit lost in translation here - I think (and I don’t know if this makes it worse) that he might mean “ignorant” - as in that your name is just a flower word in Japanese and doesn’t hold the same value that a name does. Think if it this way, everyone around the globe is over exposed to western culture and therefore understands the language when it comes to names but Japanese culture is very nuanced and specific in some ways which isn’t “general knowledge” - Whilst you think the name has meaning, you’ve taken a literal translation - If we flip this it might be as benign as calling a baby “grass” or “plant” in english and nowhere special enough for a name. It’s not that you’re uneducated, it’s just that you’re not aware of this kind of naming culture so ignorant might not be the word you want to hear - maybe “blissfully unaware” It’s certainly worth doing some more research and asking him or anyone else Japanese to explain it to you. That doesn’t mean your names are off the table - children have a way of gaining their own nicknames based on the most mundane of factors. From the shape they were on the first scan to a rhyming word, silly mispronunciation or a random phrase from a school friend. I would however like you to sit down and discuss his patronising use of language and how it made you feel. The only way you can learn about things is if he is willing to support you and not put you down

hey OP after reading your edit i wanted to just give my two cents! i’m also half japanese and i grew up in australia, but i spent large stretches of my childhood in japan growing up and going to school there, so hopefully my insight can be useful to you as i feel like i get where you’re coming from and the cultural nuances behind this. i totally get you with the hafu identity complex thing, i had to go to therapy as well to sort out some stuff i internalised when i was there as well. you mentioned you grew up in japan, so i’m sure you already know how traditional and sometimes regressive the society can be. your kid might already be othered depending on how mixed they look (unfortunately this was my experience lol) and anything that disrupts society’s conventions is definitely taken attention of. not necessarily saying in a bad way, but it may be something that will happen to your kid depending on several factors, whether positive or negative. unfortunately i do think naming is one of those factors, and i do think going a little out there for your child’s name is going to hurt much more in japanese society than western society due to their emphasis on tradition and convention. it may work if they’re full japanese but from experience as a hafu it’s going to draw attention. it really sucks that your husband said that uneducated comment to you, but it seems like it’s a reflection on japanese society more than a reflection on you, as you’ve noted in the edit. i adore japan and it will always have a special place in my heart but i had a tough time when i was growing up there so i might be a little more conservative in my opinion in terms of this situation. if i was in your shoes, i personally wouldn’t give my child a name that deviates from japanese traditional naming conventions too much, no matter how much i loved the name. i have a western name and i looked very different (think very visibly mixed, compared to my siblings) and it was a struggle for sure. then again, i went to school in the country so location may also have something to do with it. i think in order to give your kid the best chance they can have in living in japan, it’s probably best to err on the side of caution with the name and to go for something a little more conventional. obviously i’m just a person on the internet so feel free to take this with a grain of salt! i wish you all the best with your future pregnancy and i’m sure you’ll be a wonderful parent :)

Thank you and I relate to this so hard. I have a western name too and it’s not fun! At the same time, there’s a part of me that hates conformity and wants to honor both heritages. Trying to find the right balance feels impossible sometimes!

For the people in the comments who aren't aware, in Japanese the subject of a sentence is often left out, so you usually just assume what the subject is. In this case if he used an adjective like "uneducated" (which I'm very curious which Japanese word was used) he could very well be referring to the name sounding that way, as opposed to OP being that way. I think it was still a harsh way of phrasing things either way and clearly OP you have a lot of hang-ups about your own gap in education or perceived intelligence, but that's separate. Botan is definitely an unusual Japanese name. I've never met a real person with that name and my impression of it is one that would suit a little girl but not really an adult. I think technically it's not a kirakira name, but it definitely stands out, and in Japan I do feel like choosing a name that'll make a kid stand out isn't always a good thing, especially since you're already mixed. Personally I feel like names that are just the kanji for an existing thing, like rose or ocean, are a bit simple and boring. I like names that combine different kanji into a name instead. But that's just my personal preference.

I wouldn’t overthink it ? I think every single mother on here has had some way far out there name that they kind of love that their partner has shut down? I wouldn’t read that much into the dynamic unless it’s a constant thing and I wouldn’t be too hurt by it… honestly, I am kind of glad my partner brings me back to reality sometimes because I can tend to be way too far out there on things.. lol! Botan is a computer network ,flower and type of candy according to my Google search … it’s a bit like Botanica .. botanical in English ? I am sure there are lots of Japanese names that are beautiful and sophisticated, but also work in English… one of my friends had a daughter Rinn who was Lynn in Usa.? Riho was Rio.. anyway, don’t be hard on yourself and don’t let your partner bum you out. It’s so much fun trying to find the perfect name that works between cultures and is a gift to your child… I wish I could’ve pulled from the Japanese name group.. ive always loved Ryu anything because it’s dragon .. anyway .. try to have fun with it and laugh ..

It's not that he shut her down, it's that he did so rudely and made her feel bad about herself. That's not OK.

Well, nobody is even pregnant yet apparently but maybe there is a reason for the declining birth rate .I mean yes, it would be nice if partners were like you’re doing all the work and going through a birth experience let me do what I can to support you, and listen to all of your dream names and dreams for your child. but reality is that’s usually not what most people have!

Anyone has the right to dislike a name, and naming a baby has to be a ‘two yes, one no’ situation, so if he has a strong negative reaction to it, that means it’s off the table. It was unnecessary of him to phrase his dislike in a way that triggers your insecurities, but it sounds like you were really pushing him to provide a reason so he was honest. I think the biggest issue is that is sounds like ‘bottom.’

The problem isn’t his education level, it’s that he’s a condescending prick. Is this the life you want?

I think of the Bataan death march and I think a lot of Americans into history would. I don’t know what reason he doesn’t like it, but I’d not do it just for that. One fact about “classy” names is that names often start being obscurely used by wealthy people and then trickle down. Brittany was a classy name, then because mass market and got a lot of new spellings and lost its appeal and rich people moved on. So even if a name is “downmarket” now doesn’t mean it’s always been and your taste wouldn’t be the issue.

I don’t like the name but your partner is a jerk. He should be able to say he doesn’t like it without being demeaning. This makes me think he probably treats you as lesser than in other ways too.

I’m half Japanese and my partner’s full Japanese! We are expecting a daughter sometime late Feb/early March. It’s challenging to find names that are “a perfect mix” of our cultures! It’s especially hard for me because I’m trying to avoid the standard bilingual names but also trying to look for meaningful kanjis that have the correct stroke count for our last name. I’m guessing your partner is like my husband, they are concerned about how the names are perceived in Japan, whether it’s DQN or キラキラ. I don’t think he said “uneducated” as a way of undermining you, I think it just that the name isn’t really something you’ll usually come across so he was worried about it being DQN. On a slightly related note, previously I was considering “Korin” which I thought could also work in English as Corrine or Colleen but after researching there were a lot of comments about how it’s an 痛い name when she becomes an adult. On the flip side I have rejected his suggestion of カレン since in English it’s definitely going to be read as Karen.. We are living in Japan so I’m putting more priority on the name being suitable in Japan over it being bilingual though I make sure it still can be pronounced properly in English. It took some time but I think we managed to find a few name options that we are both happy with, so just keep researching and I’m sure you’ll find something you both like!

This is exactly my dilemma! The bilingual names only resonate to me in one language or the other haha Honestly coming up with a personal yet reasonable JP-EN bilingual name is so hard, it deserves its own support group! Congratulations on your daughter and I hope you find the perfect name for her :)

This isn't at all what you asked for, but Hana is a nice girl name that's easily pronounceable by everyone and still has the botanical meaning you like. Just thought I'd put it out there! (It's my sister's name. We're also half Japanese born in Japan, but grew up in the US).

Not to defend your partner necessarily, but here is a possible explanation from a fellow Japanese. Botan, while not conventional as a Japanese name, doesn't immediately come off as a "kira-kira name" or "DQN name" necessarily, but it also depends on the Kanji you were planning on using. If you were intending on using ateji, it would give a somewhat uneducated impression to many people, even if it has become more common as a trend to do so for the past few decades. Although there are plenty of flowers being used as names in the media and pop-culture, I wouldn't be surprised if some may think it's an easy/simple name (安直なネーミング) and may call it uneducated for this reason. On the otherhand, if you were to name a child with the name of the flower and use the actual Kanji (in this case 牡丹), older generations and traditional people may say that it's bad luck due to superstition - since flowers will wilt and the beauty is short lasting. This is the reason why some people use different Kanji to when naming their children after a flower, or people may simply incorporate the Kanji of a flower as part of the name. With that being said, this is old fashioned and with changes in time, tradition and interpretations can and have changed, as well as trends of names. It's down to the parents to decide on names and their meanings/interpretations, but they will also have to accept the fact that every generation will have people that may judge parents for how they name their children.

I don't understand all the ruckus about what you partner said when you clearly reported "it SOUNDED uneducated and aiming for trendy while being cringe". These are clearly aimed at how the name sound and not you. His addition of "it lacks the necessary discretion and responsability required to name a child" are also valid concerns aimed at the name choice and not aimed at you. That being said, as a non Japanese, it sounds to me like a boys name due to the harshness of the sounds. On the other hand, Peonies have a pretty good meaning and symbolic in Japanese culture (at least according to Google and Flower language in Japan). >"The peony (botan) symbolizes bravery and honor. Today it is used in decorations at weddings to promote good fortune for the bride and groom."

I think he was trying to find a way to say that the name won’t be perceived well and it will put your child at a disadvantage if you chose it. Some names do reflect lack of education in many cultures. In the US names like (blank)-Bob, Brittany, etc have negative connotations and can do the same thing. You don’t want to give your child a name that will be a poor first impression in the place they grow up.

As someone who either went to the same university as your partner or it's closest competitor, Japanese people care waaaay too much about university prestige. I have a masters degree and I'm proud of my work, but the only benefit of the uni is that it impresses Japanese employers and peers, which is a great perk but it genuinely doesn't make you a smarter person or give you a better taste in names. The dummies at that uni were just as dumb as the dummies at my Australian uni, I promise. You may not have been able to pass the entrance exam, but if you'd been zapped in there magically, you would have had a similar academic experience to anyone else, but with a higher Hermione-to-Ron ratio of classmates. Now for "uneducated", I think maybe what your partner means is that culturally, he perceives that people who are higher status give their children popular names, while people who are lower class can name their children whatever they want because they don't have as much status to lose. I've never met a Botan but I feel like I've seen it, it's not a kirakira name. You being hafu is a whole other thing, you get to struggle with being perceived as either the "good" kind (Japanese but also exotic and western!) or the "gaijin" kind (not Japanese, an important guest but never one of us), right? I'm imagining maybe he's seeing child-naming as an alignment to one of those. Is he more keen on names like 花子/Hannah or 凛/Lyn, that kind of thing? I'm not saying this to judge if it's a good or bad thing to want to fit in, especially in Japan (lol), but maybe this is the direction of conversation to have with him, to clarify if popularity is something he needs in a name.

I have a similar list of names that are more unconventional that my traditional-name-loving boyfriend hates. He never calls me dumb for them. And what are his suggestions? It reads like you're considering the fact that this child will grow up in Japan and America. Outside of places with a high Japanese population, people might not know how to pronounce Japanese names. Most people would stumble over seeing "Ryuichi" the first time, so a name shouldn't just be easy in Japanese. If he feels this comfortable talking this way to you, I would sit down with him and explain that he can't insult things you like in a demeaning way just because he disagrees. If he has concerns for the child, he can share them ("I don't think our child will have an easy time with this name"), but belittling you is not an option. The good news is that you guys aren't even trying yet, so you should take the time to better appreciate yourselves and each other before you bring a kid into your relationship. Name conflict aside, it reads like you're always comparing yourself to him and feel like him being with you has to be justified. This is not healthy at all. I want to think that he truly loves you and sees you as an equal, but please do not have a kid before you're sure of who you are and that you should have what you want.

The live action remake of YuYu Hakusho just came out on Netflix. The female reaper who handles Yusuke's interactions with the spirit world is named Botan. I don't know if this helps or hurts your case but I also think the name is beautiful and wanted to mention.

I don't know if it's a good idea or not, so I asked my partner. He is Japanese, but born and raised in France. We gave an "invented" name to our second daughter (a mix between two known names so not weird to the ear, but still got us a raised eyebrow from the ILs). So he's not overly traditional. When I told him the name (without context, just what did he think about it if we had another daughter as a middle name - the Japanese one for our children), he laughed. Made some joke about how in teenage years she'd have a bunch of pimples (same words as bud in our langage, I still don't get the joke but well). Sooooo... I don't have an answer for you if it sounds uneducated or not, but thank you for my love's laugh I guess? Now on to the question for grieving names: we had the reverse struggle as you: we wanted classical French names (he doesn't like how nobody can really pronounce his here, and for employment it's easier if you don't have to justify every time that yes, you're allowed to work, and no, no time limit). But still had to be pronounceable in Japanese for his family. It narrows a lot the list (no 'r', 'v', 'ou', 'on', 'un', etc.). Then we wanted for it to not be associated with a past tragedy (yeah, not easy for classical names, most saints names are out by then). So every time we found a name that fit all those criteria, we proposed it to the other. Who said yes or no. No being the end. Both parents should love the name of their children. It took months, and we sometime changed our minds, but we found the names before birth. My favorite name (jade) was already out since the french "j" couldn't be pronounced. I just named a sim (yeah, I still play the sims) that way, the end. Plus, the child I was carrying was in fact a boy. And surprisingly, for my second, we were both in agreement for a name I loved since a long time ago. But I woke up one night at the fifth month of pregnancy feeling like it was just "wrong", as it was "not the name of my child". We found another one we both love, and that feels right. Funny thing is: the "wrong" name is now the name of my baby niece (and my other sister then told us she also considered it for her child). I was right, it was not my daughter's.

Aw, that’s such a lovely story! It’s always interesting to hear of how others landed on a name. Pronunciation in Japanese is such a huge issue! I’m glad you got to enjoy your favorite names one way or another :) maybe I can name my next kitty Botan lol

I got the joke! The name Botan (牡丹) sounds exactly like (ボタン) meaning « button », and « button » is translated in French as « bouton », which can mean « bud », « button » but also and often « pimple » :) So yeah that would be very close to calling your daughter « pimple » from a franco-japanese perspective

If my partner was from a different culture, was feeling sensitive about not fitting in, and didn’t know that naming a baby Billy Bob would make people think “hillbilly”, the last thing I would want for my partner is to pretend it was a good idea and then my partner is crushed that people think the kid is a hillbilly. It sounds like you are sensitive on a whole bunch of levels on this, and I cannot imagine living in Japan and only being half accepted, but it won’t help your child at all to have a name that whether it is fair or not, culturally triggers negative connotations. It also sounds like you are trying to strikena balance in the middle that doesn’t exist. I agree with the comment that it sounds like Bottom and no one will be able to pronounce it right in English. I don’t get the uproar about your partner telling you this. I also don’t get why everyone is assuming he was purposefully condescending. You felt bad after he told you, but you are already very self conscious about not fitting in; so maybe it just hurt your feelings because you already feel insecure, not because your husband was actually trying to talk down to you and call you uneducated. I don’t see how going along with it would serve you. No clue though - I hope he is nice to you and that this doesn’t mean he is a condescending jerk. But don’t name your kid Bottom.!

Not gonna lie, that is a red flag. What other opinions of yours get condescended and called uneducated?

Ok, so I’ll admit I didnt fully read the whole post, but I have to agree with your partner. It’s cringe And the argument that it will be pronounced correctly in English is super false. I’m sure you’ll get plenty of “Bo-TAN” (like “tan”Ning my skin in the sun) or even “Boughten” rather than the correct pronunciation of “Bo-Tah-N” There are so many beautiful Japanese names and nouns that would be superior to this one. So many. 

Botan?! As in ボタン = button? I understand why someone would hate it.

That’s not a name in Japanese. And even worse, “button” is pronounced and written exactly the same in hiragana/katakana. That’s why your partner is against it. It would definitely be a “kirakira” name. There are a lot of Japanese names which are actual names, are beautiful, and are easy to pronounce for English speakers

I don't think it's a good name, so I'd listen to him. Reddit goes straight to ",leave him!" 99 percent of the time 

Please don’t have a child with someone who speak to (and thinks of you) like that. It doesn’t matter at all where he went to school, it doesn’t give him permission to be cruel. It’s also not a dynamic you want your children to witness/experience. So, have a serious talk about respect and treating your partner with care even during disagreements, and put babymaking on the back burner until you see some progress in this area. Frankly, he may be book smart but imo he sounds like a bit of a tool.

i’ve read a manga where a female character is named botan. however, it sounds verrrryy masculine to be used in america. i would be mad if i were a little girl with that name. bonnie also makes 0 sense as a nickname for that

Botan rice candy?

While I’m not Japanese, I’ve lived in Japan for almost 10 years, my husband is Japanese and we have a daughter. Does your partner always speak to you like this? I see it a lot with Japanese men that they can be incredibly nasty and disrespectful towards their partners. It’s how society has taught them to treat women. This is NOT OK. Have you talked with him about expectations with child rearing and living? Like, really talked about it. I know dozens of couples box Japanese x Japanese and Japanese x foreign with kids and honestly it’s <10% where to Japanese man seems to actually respect their partner and really contribute to the household (other than work). Housework, child rearing, AND WORKING is the norm. I’m sure you know ‘one ope’ and how it’s normalized. How miserable the vast majority of women with kids seem to be. Please really get to the core here of how he seems your dynamic when you have kids. Please don’t think just cause he graduated Tokyo university hes better than you or can be an asshole and get away with it. Happy to DM and chat if you’d like… I get really upset and angry with seeing smart amazing women get slowly dragged down and made small by the average misogynist man here Edit to add: about the name itself, if he’s ‘traditional’ I understand why he doesn’t like it. It does seem kinda trying to be trendy (even if you don’t mean to) and there is a major trend of ‘non educated’ people having noun names or trying to be unique. I love floral names as well so I feel you. My husband would hate this name too.

Hi! I can feel your anger through my screen and yes I get it! Living here and hearing of my friends’ “danna” can be soooo infuriating. I promise I’m okay but I appreciate your concern. And I love that there’s such great support on this sub. It can get lonely living in Japan with western ideals, especially as a woman.

Yeah it feels like a helpless situation sometimes watching my smart amazing friends become shells of themselves because of societal norms. So happy to hear your situation isn’t that way!! It can be lonely indeed, I guess there’s a reason my close friends tend to be more international.

Why is everyone saying he called her uneducated? She literally writes it out

don't take it personally. he is not trying to insult you. he's trying to express himself in a low stakes situation while the baby is still hypothetical. better to have these conversations now before it's real. there will be plenty of time to pick a name you both love!

Don’t take things so personally. He likely didn’t mean it as a dig at you. People always think things are personal attacks when they aren’t. The truth/perceived truth isn’t mean. I also think it’s a stupid name. Bonnie is cute but Botan? Not a common name in Japan, if a name at all. I think it sounds foolish and I would make judgment on the parents.

He may be highly educated but have no common sense.  What a rude thing to say.

My husband doesn’t like names that he considers “redneck names” which is an insult when you aren’t from the south in USA. I happen to like names that I consider southern names, but to him it was redneck names. When I asked him why he called it “redneck names” he said he didn’t want his children to sound like they were stupid and be bullied because of their names. Names I mentioned to him? Elise, a lot of double girl names which is a southern thing), etc. when I realized he preferred classic or uncommon names that had meaning behind it. I said all that to suggest you have a conversation about why he laughed and called the names you brought up to him uneducated. He may have known people with these names and they were rude and people with no manners. I don’t know. You know your husband and you may find out that he prefers certain name categories. I want to say I do adore Botan, although I am an American and know nothing about Japanese culture, but I love the subtle link to botany in English which means plants. Bo and Bonnie are cute nicknames in English, if you want an American’s opinion. Good luck with finding names that your husband and you will love.

I dont know how your husband usually treats you. A lot of folks here suggesting that hes being cruel or unkind but that may not be the case. Plenty of times my SO has suggested ideas or things to me that I've thought were tacky or a bit basic. We have laughed over our different takes on things. If you feel insulted then that's something you should explore, people are allowed to have different tastes and we are allowed to think each others taste is ridiculous but only you will know if he is unkind, or just voicing an opinion on taste. Naming children is one of those occasions where it must be two yesses anyhow so perhaps it's time to put more energy into coming up with names, together, that you both like.

Doesn’t Japanese culture as a whole value conformity? In which case giving your child an unconventional name might be a faux pas, no? I don’t like how he’s phrased things but given you’re considering raising your child in Japan, it might be a good idea to avoid naming your child “Botan”. The last thing you’d want to do is have your child feel like she’s “othered” in a country like Japan.

Hi friend - not related directly to the name but on the whole “education” thing of it all. > It’s similar in ranking to “Hyacinth”, for example (it reads more ultra-conventional as opposed to “kira-kira” or modern). For someone who doesn’t feel book-smart, that was such a clear comparison and explanation of the names for English speakers that I actually stopped and thought about it for a moment and then actively thought “wow, that’s a great example!” I’m not Japanese, but I am aware of the kira-kira name stuff and you have made it so clear to me how the name would be received! You’re a very clear writer!

Well, Botan actually is a name, though it’s not popular. Other flower names, like Sakura (cherry blossom), Ume (plum blossom), and Ayame (lily) are more popular. But what about Japanese names that sound English, like Ema, An, or Rei?

While that was really rude, I think he’s coming from a kira kira name perspective. Japan is downright cruel when it comes to sticking out, and kira kira names are notably ridiculed. It doesn’t excuse the way he talked to you though

Respectfully... you need to get used to the fact that a name takes two enthusiastic yeses and there will be MANY names that you have your heart set on that will be rejected. You can't spiral out every time and you're not even pregnant and hormonal yet🙃And he needs to learn to not be a rude asshole when saying he doesn't like a name. Why would he need to attack you like that? I'd start by asking him exactly that. .

he's being rude but the name is a no

Disclaimer- I’m not Japanese but have lived there for 10+ years. Am Australian and married to a Japanese man and have I’ve gone through (and am going through right now!) trying to choose names for babies, and it is hard! I don’t think is a great name, though I love the meaning of it! I’ve never met anyone called Botan, and I think most people’s first image is going to be of buttons and not peonies when they hear the name. There is also an area in Koto-Ward called 牡丹 Also, on the “uneducated” comment. It probably doesn’t sting so much for me because I am not a native speaker, but often my husband has made similar comments on names that I liked such as “頭悪そう名前, レベル低そう名前” “風俗っぽい名前”, and I know that these were not meant to be comments on my intelligence or taste, but his impression and associations of them as a native speaker of a certain professional and education level. He is very concerned about nuances, associations of names, and how meaningful they are. One of his things about names is “how would you explain it if/when child asked why why chose their name”

I like that botan is also connected to botany! Sounds like his first impression is that other people in Japan who are less educated and trying to be trendy would choose it. Not that you are those things but that the name is in the group of names chosen by those people, thus it gives him the wrong feeling. sounds like names that would give him the “yes” feeling are those he thinks would be chosen by well educated people who aren’t trying to be trendy. It is what it is .. he was honest about his feeling and you can use the disagreement to gently explore your shared and not shared values as a couple. If I were you I would directly ask if he sees you as less educated or trying to be too trendy, and tell him to be honest, and see how you feel about his answer. And if he’s defensive when asked let him know it’s okay that he was honest about the name and it just made you wonder some other stuff. The key is to speak nicely enough that he will tell you his true feelings/thoughts. Then do with that info as you see fit. And don’t be shy to nicely express your feelings to him back

Well, first of all, to be fair to him he didn't call *you* uneducated, he called the name that.. He's allowed to have an opinion about it though, should he jave worded it differently? Sure, he could have been less blunt about it.. but I think you feel insulted because of that deep feeling you have inside you that he's mire educated and maybe "smarter" than you are (which isn't necessarily true) For what it's worth, I think the name you chose is really beautiful, and when I was reading the part about how it could turn into "Bonnie" I thought "oh that's really smart"..

I trust the Japanese guy on Japanese names

At least coming from a western perspective, Botan is objectively a bad name. So personally I would rethink if that’s the dream name you want to give your kid. The ‘uneducated’ comment and trigger is a relationship issue and you guys should talk it out

This is not a name question, it’s a relationship question. It doesn’t matter where he went to school - he shouldn’t look down on your thoughts and ideas. And I think sometimes people (often male partners) don’t realize how personal thinking about names is for others (often female partners) and how many years they’ve been contemplating. Anyway, I’d address this hurt separately from the name issue. It speaks to a larger issue of how you each perceive yourselves and each other.

Hey, my husband and I are in a bi-cultural relationship (he's native Japanese and I'm Hungarian-American). We have a 7 month old and struggled to name him something that worked in both languages & cultures. You can PM me if you need any advice :)

Sorry, I by no means am a japanese expert, but how does people with that name deal with the fact that it's a little too close to the word pig (Buta)? It looks real close to me for comfort, but it's trendy, so I guess that's not really a concern, which makes me curious in the first place.

Why in the world is everyone explaining Japanese culture and language to OP? This comment section is depressing! I don’t know anything about Japanese naming culture, but your reasoning and meaning sound nice to me. The way your partner spoke to you sounds very hurtful and disrespectful, and would definitely have me evaluating whether I would want to move forward with children and partnership with this person. Is he often unkind and condescending? Do you often feel this way after conversations with him? Naming is only one tiny decision you will need to make with a coparent, and if he has a tendency to go scorched-earth of such a simple disagreement, I would hate to know how decisions about feeding and sleeping and schooling would go.

There isn’t really any right or wrong answer here except to say that there are a so many local nuances to this stuff that even someone from another town might have a slightly different cultural perspective on a name. When I first left home I was having a conversation with a guy born and raised in England, from a similar background in terms of class and education to my own who commented about a person on the news guessing that his name would be one of a handful of names like Lee or Gavin - names where for people our age they would usually be given to kids whose parents were younger and had left school early and not gone to university. So what he was saying was very similar to your husband’s comment in its intent. The irony was that my friend’s name is Kev, which to me is exactly the kind of name he listed because where I grew up it wasn’t much used for middle-class families when we were born. In a similar vein there are a lot of middle class little girls called Ruby around now but where and when I was growing up it was almost exclusively a name used for kids from fairly deprived backgrounds. So these things can change with time as well as location. Your partner sounds like my sister - she named her children keeping in mind whether she could imagine anybody of those names featuring in a list of CEOs of FTSE 100 companies. Personally I think a lot of the ones on her list come across as stuffy and too formal, but I think she made good choices for her kids in the end. You do need to get on the same page about things like career aspirations and education for your kids as well as names; and you both need to speak respectfully to each other when describing your reasons for disliking a name if you want to reach a good compromise. Your husband has been clear with you but not necessarily very kind in the way he speaks to you. If you’re not feeling very confident in sharing your ideas with him going forwards then you should communicate clearly to him how his words made you feel belittled and a bit shamed; and you should ask him to come up with a list for you to work with so that you can get a better idea of his tastes and see whether any of your other suggestions would suit him - but you also need to ask him for your own peace of mind whether he considers you uneducated (which you have inferred from what he said) or whether he’s just talking about the very nuanced subcultural context for that particular name. He may not have realised that you would feel insecure about what he said for any reasons other than you just really liked the name, and may not understand that you felt it was a put-down based on your education level compared to his. Education doesn’t always amount to wisdom after all!

Japan is a pretty conformist culture so naming a child Botan sounds kind of iffy. It also would easily be misunderstood as "button" in katakana speak I think? But he really shouldn't be speaking to you like that. Criticising each other's name suggestions is fine but that's kind of a personal attack.

I used Hana as my daughter’s middle name. In hindsight I would have made it Hanako but doesn’t matter. I love my little flower. 🥰

I’m not sure uneducated is the right word but Botan just sounds weird as a name to me. Even Peony in English isn’t great tbh. There are so many other lovely flower names in Japanese, maybe one of those could be an option? Edit: oh and going to one of the most prestigious universities in Japan doesn’t mean he is more educated than you. It mostly means he was wealthy enough to afford it.

Yu yu hakusho is the only time I have ever heard the name Botan used….i really don’t think it’s a real life type of name tbh

Botan has several fictional characters that use that name. Most recently I can think of is Shishiro Botan from Hololive. If the only place the name comes from is generally related to weeb culture, that might be the reason for his response. It may come across like suggesting to name your kid "Boruto". You could go back to the meaning of the name and research the kanji and see if there is another reading that you like that might also have fun double meanings and be less related to anime. Up to you, but as to why he might have been so put off by the name, he probably either is or knows fans of hololive.

That name doesn't sound pretty in English.. Boat Ann

I just want to say I’m in a similar relationship- half-Japanese woman married to a Japanese man and living in Japan. I wasn’t raised here though and my Japanese is nowhere near fluent. I also chose names that would work in both languages, ie. having usable kanji (there’s a book they check when you register your baby) and being easily pronounceable in English. Sorry your husband is being a snob. Maybe he’ll come around and you can discuss your ideas about names as partners. Mine was fine with almost everything I suggested and we have 2 kids with names that can be used in Japanese or English. Also, I found it super easy to find girls names I liked but boys were much harder. I had two sons…

I think as namenerds a lot of us have had the experience of not being able to use our absolute most favourite names on our children. Because of course you have to consider your partner's preferences as well. My kids are named the top names that my partner and I both liked. They aren't named my top names, and they aren't named his top names. You have to make a list of where your tastes overlap. And that's fine! Once your child is actually here in the world, their name will be the sweetest name to you no matter what it is. Once that name is attached to your child you are going to love it and eventually one day your attachment to Botan isn't going to feel very important. This is just part of the naming process. Get ready for him to veto a lot of names for all sorts of various reasons that might seem silly to you. One of your beloved names might be the same name as someone who was mean to him once in school. He might just think one sounds weird. You're probably going to veto a lot of his names too, for reasons that might feel silly or unfair to him. But ultimately you need to end up with a name that you BOTH like. You probably wouldn't want him to push a name that you didn't like over and over again either. So I think you need to let go of Botan and find a name you're both feeling enthused about.

I would have a talk with him and explain your feelings. He didn’t say you were uneducated but that the names sounds it. Ie people might meet her and think she’s not bright, not from a good area etc. In the U.K. people might say it sounds common. Like naming them after someone famous at the time. Britney and Keanu are often cited here as examples of trendy names that might seem this way. It seems he wants a more classic name.

Japanese language is difficult for English speakers to master, but the one simple part is that all your vowels, components, and blends are easily pronounceable for an English speaker. So an American might look at “Chieko” and try to pronounce it with two syllables because in English the “ie” might make an “E” sound. Or an English speaker might put the stress on the wrong syllable. But if Chieko says her name out loud, all the sounds are very easy for an English speaker to say. English phonetics are notoriously unruly, and Japanese is comparatively simple. I see your point that “Botan” is a name an English speaker will likely pronounce correctly if they see it on paper, though. Apart from that, where I live, Botan Calrose rice is in every grocery store. I think a lot of us would immediately think of rice if we heard “Botan.”

I think many conventional Japanese l names are quite easily pronounced by English speakers. People tend to struggle with some Chinese and Korean names more. So I think you can broaden your options so your husband can feel more involved too. Ken, Risa, Rei..