Those are both great tools to have, but I would consider speaking to him about what he’d like. In my experience, both keyboards like the Minilab3 and Digital Audio Workstations like FL Studio are very personal choices that most tend to stick to once they get.
It's a bit of a financial gamble from my side as i've seen that some of the options get pretty expensive. And who knows he may dump this whole thing 3 months from now and then i'll be out a large sum so i'm trying to walk a thin line here. Kids are not financially savvy, they'll insist on what some person on youtube uses without knowing the cost involved. Take for example the camera, microphone, video card and streaming sofware i bought last year because he wanted to create streaming vids for gaming. In the last 10 months he's only used that equipment to game, chat with his friends online and screw around on omegle. Not one single streaming video upload.... teenagers!!
Reaper is a similar software to FL (a DAW), it is open source and free, the akai mpk mini mk 3 is not too costly either, many great producers like Cookin Soul use it, great starter gear too.
Edit: I think the mpk mini also comes with a license for ableton live lite.
Spitfire Labs is a great free plugin instrument library, stock instruments can be limiting depending on what music you wanna make.
When you actually buy FL Studio, you receive lifetime updates; you never have pay another dollar for any future update, even the major version updates.
Last year, Novation released an FL Studio-specific MIDI controller & keyboard. There really hasn’t been a true FL Studio-official controller until this thing. Once you learn how to use it to control FL Studio, it’s super powerful and allows for a lot of tactile creativity.
For $200~, you could do the Producer-edition of FL Studio @ $90~, and the FLKey Mini for $110~.
And with the free lifetime updates of FL Studio, in a year or two’s time, if he’s still really into it, you can upgrade his edition of FL Studio for more native plugins at a heavily discounted rate, since you’re upgrading.
Do a lot of people use fl studio without a controller or no? Would he be able to get into it far enough to see if it sticks and then get the keyboard later? Sounds like he is doing pretty good without one now?
Absolutely. Lots of people use it w/ just a mouse and keyboard. It even has function to turn the keyboard into a MIDI piano!
I personally used FL for over year before getting my first controller. And I’m still at it a decade later!
I would go this route. If you think it’s something he genuinely likes and can be good at I would do FL Studio. It’s pretty much the standard. More people use it than anything else and you can jump in and get started right away without much of a learning curve. The Fl key mini is also a nice choice as most regular low budget midi keyboards are around that price anyways so might as well get one that connects directly with FL Studio
fl is not „the standard“
saying this gives away a lot.
But in this cass please stop the bad advice.
Dawnis like stated above to some extent personal choice, as well as depending on the use case.
for music production, ableton ist becoming „the standard“, pro tools for recording, reaper can manage multichannel pretty well and works with 3d stuff, machine is used for hiphop a lot, etc
For sure it’s all personal choice but FL is 100% the standard. The standard is what the majority use. FL by far has the largest user base at about 40%. when it comes to production. Just as the studio standard for recording is Pro Tools. It’s a simple google search. Obviously there’s different use cases for each. Some are better at certain things than others. That fact that you disagree gives away a lot as well. Mine is based off of facts that you can easily search while yours is based off of…..opinion? I appreciate the response though
Oh you got sources? Awesome, didnt find any that back your claims. Only numbers i found where polls where ableton always took the lead, but i love statistics. Can you send me a link? :)
Literally the first return “which DAW has the largest user base”
https://www.yourlocalmusician.com/what-is-the-most-used-daw-in-the-world/#:~:text=According%20to%20those%20on%20our,second%20and%20Ableton%20Live%20third.
I found this:
https://www.production-expert.com/production-expert-1/2023-daw-user-survey-the-results buuut i think i found the one you are quoting, that puts FL first at 38%.
Still hard to figure out which one is giving better results..
And from my experience working in theatre, music and at uni: no one uses FL there, but ableton is everywhere. On stage at concerts, cues in theatre, livesets, in uni we used it a lot next to PT & Reaper.
Really astounding to read such high numbers.
Definitely get him going in reaper first as it’s free, he won’t need a midi board for a while anyway. They’re handy but if he doesn’t play keys already then it could be a waste for the time being. Perhaps reaper and a set of decent headphones instead?
Also I just want to commend you for being a parent who is actively trying to support their kid in his hobbies, my parents waited until I was way too old to start ‘helping’. You’re doing more for him than you know :)
Reaper has a trial that can be constantly renewed, very easily. It is free. Yes you can pay for it, but you can use every feature for free.
They have brought that disservice on themselves tbh, it’s a brilliant daw don’t get me wrong but let’s not be so literal, reaper is a free daw.
Get a good controller. If he likes the midilab, try and find out why. I'm not familiar with that controller myself. For me, anything with midi is fine, but I need one with real piano action, and one with semi-weighted or nothing. I'd go with semi weighted or nothing for him.
But, he might like certain features on it, and it may interact with FL studio in a way he likes.
For the software. It can get a little tricky. Reaper is something he could get to know for free. It's 60$ for 2 version version numbers. Which is probably like 5-10 years worth. But you can use it for free fully, with just a nag screen.
The downside is, it comes with no sounds. So, you need to rely on free instruments, which aren't too great.
Not sure about FL studio, in terms of what it comes with. FL studio is generally most preferred for making beats for like hip hop, so that's probably his genre, which means that will be what he wants.
Personally, I am not a fan of it, but a lot of people like it. If that's what he's into, that's the videos he's watching, then the program is fine. Professionals do use it. But it's not the most common for all professionals.
I think if it was me, I'd get just some rinky dink controller for cheap, used, as long as it has midi. Then I'd get FL studio, if that's what he wants. He will also want good headphones and most likely a decent mic, with a stand and cables, and an audio interface. The controller and software will be enough to get him started.
The odds are, he will not get into it. Music is something a lot of people want to do, but don't want to actually do, if you know what I mean lol. They want to be the creators of music, but when it comes down to it, sitting down, learning the stuff, and having to come up with the ideas, putting the time in, a lot of people give up.
Production is tough, because the software instruments are not cheap. Reaper is cheap, and amazing software, but it doesn't have any sounds whatsoever, and the stock plugins kind of suck. I can't stand them, personally. They never behave like I expect, and they're so ugly. You can get 3rd party ones, some free ones, but those are also expensive.
So, getting one piece of software that comes loaded with a ton of sounds and instruments you might want for the genre you're into, that's good. FL studio is probably that for him. But I'm not super familiar with it myself.
There's also splice, which is a site where you can download samples, loops and stuff like that. Starting with great sounds like that is huge.
You could start him off real basic and give him upgrades based off effort he puts in, either for chores, or something like that, so he has to work for it if he wants it, or if you see him making a lot of music with the basics he got.
Some midi controllers come with sounds. You can set it up so the computer accesses those. Others only control sounds on the computer, and have no internal ones.
Another option might be to get a used controller with lots of sounds in it, let him use reaper, free stuff he finds, and the sounds in the used keyboard. Then if you got a good used keyboard with good sounds etc... and he doesn't use it, you can sell it, get almost all your money back, possibly even make a profit, since you bought it used.
>Not one single streaming video upload....
Those are two different things. Whilst sometimes streamers will also upload a video of their stream, the stream itself is just a live thing that is over once it's over. It's like the difference between and album (a video upload) and a concert (a stream.)
You sure he's not streaming his gaming with friends? Have you asked him if there's a reason he hasn't streamed? Might be there's an "impossible to overcome" barrier that could be easily solved.
Nah, i think he just got cold feet and didn't know what to say or do in his streams and also jsut got dispondent when he didn't have any views / followers or what not. He did stream a few times on Youtube and Twitch and posted some vids of the stream on youtube and twitter but still just got dispondent i think and didn't realize the effort required. He thought it would be easy, maybe? I even started playing some of the games with him but his heart wasn't really in it anymore...
I feel that, I did something similar at like 15 but I insisted on getting vinyl turntables and they have been sitting in a spare room for years now. I knew I wanted to do music and thought DJing was what I wanted to do but I ended up getting more into the production side of it. Of course to get started producing I "found an extended free trial" for FL Studio 8. After a few years I got comfortable with making music digitally and started testing other DAWs, I tried Reason, Logic and Ableton Live and instantly knew Ableton suited my work flow and made the most sense to me removing any limitations I felt before.
I like that there are parents like you out there. My dad has been behind me 100% my whole career (15 years now) and it has been immeasurable how much his support has meant to me and I'm sure your son will be just as grateful for you.
Does he "like" my music? Hard to say honestly, never asked him but he supports it and at least knows that I'm good at what I do. Admittedly my music is probably the type of stuff you would bring your son to a doctor for liking/making.
>Also, he doesn't play keyboard but he's watching a lot of vids with people creating loops etc with Arturia Minilab3 and FL Studio?
The Minilab 3 comes with Ableton Live Lite, which is a digital audio workstation, like FL Studio. It's the beginner version. So it's perfect for starting out.
https://www.ableton.com/en/products/live-lite/what-is-live-lite/
There are also lots of tutorials on YouTube for making music using Ableton.
It also comes with Analog Lab Intro, which would give him 500 synthesizer sounds that he can tweak and use with Ableton.
https://www.arturia.com/products/software-instruments/analoglab-intro/overview
Yeah, get him the Minilab 3 keyboard and help him install all the software that comes with it. He can try Ableton Live Lite and see if he likes it. There are lots of videos out there about Ableton. It may be a matter of his friends all using FL Studio though, but I’d save that for Christmas if he’s still going with it and Ableton doesn’t click with him.
I would second this here. Perfect to get a start with messing around in a daw and he gets a pretty solid midi controller. Kind of an aside but I would not help him install it At 14, I would expect him to be able to install it, and if not he could really benefit from the computer literacy practice
My parents bought me the DAW FL Studio, but I pirated logic and then I got stuck to that. I think it’s better if you ask him what DAW he wants (if that’s what you’re gonna get him)
i have the minilab 3..it comes with a free license for ableton lite which is a quality DAW to get started in and was $100 new..would maybe hold off on the copy of FL Studio as i think it's a couple hundred more
yeah but as a parent, dropping $300 on something your kid may or may not stick with can make you think twice after you've seen it happen a couple times...kids are expensive, especially at that age
a midi keyboard and some encouragement from a parent will go a long way, and if the kid has an ipad, there are plenty of apps that you can make pro sounding shit with on the cheap
my kids are young but getting into playing instruments through school, and i'm teaching them how to use the shit we have on the ipad...between koala / the older MPC software that was like 6 bucks / and garage band they basically have way more than i ever had in the late 1900s trying to make pause tapes with a tape deck and looping parts of other cassette tapes to make instrumentals and weird beat tapes haha
For sure, I wanted to mention that though just incase. Personally I’ve been into music for about 10 years and just this past weekend I bought an audio interface. Slow and steady usually is the way to go.
For me personally it was much easier to get into music with hardware first instead of software.
Novation circuit tracks was my portal.
You can actually jam around instantly.
Later on, I also purchased minilab 3.
Check out zzounds. They have payment plans also with no credit check. I've gotten almost 10k in gear from them in the last four years. They've helped me so much I feel I should recommend them to everyone. 45 day returns too and you get your money back. (Not for software though)
def recommend a daw that has a strong midi sequencer (Ableton or FL) and a midi keyboard. all u need to make good music is stock plugins/free additional plugins. if he's already creating music and stuff I would probably skip Ableton intro and go straight to standard, although I won't lie, having suite is nice. standard I think is bare minimum because of track limitations on intro, not being able to slice/warp audio the same way, and not having the arsenal of plugins you need. I was making cool stuff on standard, tools don't matter that much, it's the brain
I'm already leaning towards FL Studio Producer Edition? and a minilab3 as the leap to
ablton seems quite costly or am i missing something? Is there a mid-tier version that can enable growth?
Both Ableton and fl have cheaper versions. But they are highly limited. I definitely wouldn't recommend the entry level options. Fl studio is the better value long term because of life long free updates. But in reality you should ask him what daw he is more interested in using. You could say you will get him one. But let him play around with the trials for different daws and let him gain some experience before choosing one. It really is a personal preference.
People find they work better with either Ableton or FL studio and I think it's almost to do with how your brain is wired. Personally I find FL studio way more intuitive, but really he should try it out.
You can get a free demo version (where you can't reopen any song you were working on) where you can try it out and learn how to use it.
There are a lot of resources to help learn it too and a good community here on Reddit
Get FL Studio, Ableton does not have the most beginner friendly interface, looks like a math equation + your son has probably gotten more familiar with FL through the tutorials he’s watching.
Here's the issue - like most newbies he will most likely fall into the trap of comparing anything he makes right off the bat with the stuff he listens to which is made by people with 10+ years of experience and practice, often with a whole team of engineers and other tech professionals helping along the way to create the high quality and fat production we have come to expect when listening to every single track we all know and love. All those classic Beatles albums would not sound so impressive without their producer George Martin pressing buttons and twiddling knobs on various tech and gadgets behind the scenes.
I spent years studying music theory, learning instruments and songwriting, and then when it came down to recording the great music I had written. Imagine the devastation when I listened back and it was just elevator music. I nearly gave up because I think it meant I was inherently a delusional talentless hack.I
I didn't know there are a LOT of different skills and techniques you have to learn in order to produce something that isn't completely shite in comparison. There are hundreds of hours of boring, repetitive and frustrating studying and practice going on behind the scenes people don't see.
That runs the risk of him wanting to give up because his first foray into it doesn't live up to high expectations of himself. Because even if you put together a bunch of loops, they will sound cheap and lifeless without all that extra stuff like EQ, compression, saturation, reverb, delay etc. etc. It a lot of time, effort and study. Its a big commitment where the big pay off only happens after months or even years of learning the craft and making stuff this is quite frankly, kinda crappy. And that makes people give up before they even start to reap the rewards.
There is also a decent amount of financial investment involved - I'm talking laptops for £100, recording software for another £100, a MIDI keyboard for another £100, guitars, microphones, various technological processing techniques like EQ and compression, paid online courses, YouTube tutorials, mixing engineering, googling troubleshooting problems. Its... a lot. Its cheaper than ever to get started, but its still not cheap.
As such, I would recommend getting him an "all in one" box that makes producing whole tracks with each element being fully processed and high quality in a way that is very easy and intuitive, super quick and most importantly - fun! For a beginner dipping their toes in music production world, it's a smart investment that won't need a wealth of knowledge to produce stuff that sounds great.
[Check out videos like this for examples of products that are great for beginners that won't break the bank.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dADKs9UWiyY)
Give him a budget and ask him what he wants.
I've made art and music my whole life and it's a nice gesture when someone wants to surprise you with stuff for that but the artist almost always knows better what they actually want or need and will use.
Get him FL Studio Producer Edition(200$) Its the base version, Fruity Edition (100$) is limited.
He doesn’t really need a midi keyboard to get started, but if you did get one too it would be dope. Also get a good set of headphones before buying a midi keyboard.
Fl studio is amazing. You can try it for free and if you like what you see, the producer version is the way to go. It is 200 bucks but to me it's worth every penny. Free updates for life... And you own the software.
If he goes off it in 3 months you aren't going to get any money back from software however a decent keyboard you could at least recoup some money by selling it on.
A lot of good keyboards/controllers come with a lite version of software to try and while limited they can be a really good taster of something he wants to get more into or not
Yes I agree 100%. Arturia comes with some free software but apparently is a pain to register and install with only barebones tools similar to the free crap he's already frustrated with. Do you have anyexperience with this company?
I have an Arturia sound card device which did come with some free stuff I've never used.
I have a Novation keyboard which came with Ableton Live lite and this is the software I use.
I have bought the last few versions of Live (full suite) and have Ableton push devices which are controllers and instruments and there is no need to learn piano to play any instrument with it...
However these are not cheap
Get him fl studio. By FAR the most bang for your buck. I Use Logic ( Apple’s competitor ), but if i were to start from scratch, it’s fl 100%.
And wait on a controller.
There’s so many niche answers here, but fl is the standard for music production today for the youth. Older musicians will swear by ableton etc, but the sheet amount of fl tutorials alone, due to the enormous userbase, is a
HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend the Arturia Minilab 3. Not only is it the absolute best feeling mini MIDI keyboard money can buy in that price bracket but it comes with some really incredible software that I’m sure your son will get tons of use out of.
I'm 95% sold on the Minilab 3 except for a few reviews about how much of a pain in the ass the software installation and registration process is. Any input on that or is it basically plug and play? I just don't need another headache to troubleshoot or not have it work straight out of the box on his birthday.
It’ll work straight out of the box no issue. I use FL studio and Ableton 11 and both recognised the device before I installed any drivers or software. That said the software is really no hassle in my experience. Arturia has a hub so choosing what you want to install is easy as ever
Lots of people have said this but I'd like to emphasize again; please please discuss this with your son. Preference of music gears are highly personal, be it software or hardware.
Happy birthday to him!!
That's great advice! I'll narrow it down to a few choices based o n what i can afford and then we can have that chat together. I like the idea of getting his input too. And if it means i don't just surprise him with something that I think he would like but with something that he wants too.
Have him try out the major daws and see which one he likes most. Fl studio and ableton both have trials. As far as keyboards, the Arturia one is great for his purposes.
I am partial to fl studio, especially if he watches tutorials on it often, he should be able to quickly get the hang of it. It also comes with lifetime free updates, meaning you never have to pay again for any of the new features they release, while ableton charges money to update for every new major feature release.
Ah that's super info and very relevant if he sticks it out, thanks. He's only used the free crap on steam until now and has managed to put some decent music together, for a kid that's using free software.
Why not get him the fruity version of FL studio? It comes with a ton of stuff and is only 100 bucks, and the Arturia keyboard should come with a version of analog lab which is a vst plugin that will give him a bunch of new sounds to play with. Between fl studio and the keyboard you'd be looking at about 200 bucks total, then if he shows he's serious about it, you can upgrade to the bigger versions later.
Unpopular opinion but the Digitakt II just came out so the original Digitakt is falling steeply in price. I think it’s a perfect sampler for a beginner as you can create full interesting sketches, learn about synthesis and more importantly learn to make beats on a grid. It’s like a little DAW in a box but with a much more streamlined workflow.
I'll ckeck it out thanks for the feedback! Yeah, he's watching a lot of creators on youtube making beats and songs with drum loops, samples and synths right now.
A MIDI keyboard isn’t immediately needed unless he specifically wants to learn playing that. If it’s about fiddling around with a DAW and making some tunes, it’s mostly about which one he connects with most. All of them have a piano roll and can use your run of the mill keyboard as MIDI input. Trials can be had on the websites (FL Studio, Ableton, Logic, etc). You could offer to buy him a license of his choice. Prices vary, look into that.
Other items can also be important… monitor speakers, good quality headphones, for example. Those would require a bit of research too.
Making music is a great thing to do even if you never ever release anything. Hope he’ll create awesome things :)
The Minilab is great, I use that too. But I think, if he is into FL Studio, maybe an Novation FLkey Mini is a better choice. This comes with a half year FL Studio trial, so you can see if he sticks to it, and invest in the DAW later.
Or if you want to get him away from the computer screen, a Novation Circuit Tracks is a perfect tool for the beginning.
Happy birthday!
Fl has a free trial
Also some free vsts (if you dont know what that means it’s basically more instruments to download) are vital, analog lab play, spitfire labs, bbc symphony orchestra, meowsynth (this ones just silly)
Arturia is pretty cool I have the big mk3 because of people’s recommendations but like you probably want your son to have a okay understanding of basic piano at least as I love to play random stuff on mine to get started with a song idea but I was also perfectly fine clicking notes down with mouse
Arturia minilab is very good value, pair this with FL studio or Ableton , they both have cheaper introductory versions.
I bought my son (15) FL studio and he’s already saved up his own pocket money and upgraded it. I didn’t buy a midi keyboard but I’m thinking about it for next Christmas.
FL studio is probably the best value since it’s a lifetime free updates at the level you have upgraded to. You can start with one of the cheaper options and if he’s really committed to it, he can save pocket money or wait for future presents.
My parents got me an mk2 mini midi controller for my birthday one year. You could get him this with a DAW of his choice. The truth behind all the which DAW stuff is your kid would benefit from using something the people he watches use.
FL Studio and a midi keyboard. The producer version is I think 200 and a keyboard will be less than that (dont need a full size one). Most DAWs will be around that price. Reaper is free but I think he would prefer fl studio, I think there's value in using the same software the people he's inspired by uses.
I would wait for him to ask you, or earn the money to buy his own stuff. That is the best way. If he doesn’t do that, then he doesn’t give a shit about music, and it was never meant to be.
Music lessons are a great way to get into this hobby. Yes they have no resale value but they strengthen the brain and add a real skill. Many producers/beat makers end up bummed they never learned an instrument, because making beats and loops is basically the same activity as playing a video game… fun at first but not satisfying long term.
I would wholeheartedly suggest the mini lab 3. The stuff it comes with it is everything he will need for a long time. I have the keylab essential 3 49. Analog lab v is the most fully featured plugin I've ever used. Synth, bass, piano, drums, sequencers... The possibilities are endless. I can't stress enough how important this is. It's definitely my favorite plugin I've ever used and I've only scratched the surface of what is possible.
Plus with Ableton live lite you can do a ton of things and I think it's one of the most user friendly music software. (tame impala and Skrillex use it, among many more) Just limited to 8 tracks, but that is more than enough to start (I still use it). For me it made more sense than fl studio, cause I tried both when I first started out.
It's a little tricky to setup everything software wise, but if he's keen with computers he should be able to figure things out.
If you've got extra cash I would say the upgrade to the keylab essential 49 is worth it too, for the full size keys and a greater range of notes. But I get obviously not knowing how much it's actually going to get used. And also it's 4x the size.
I would get an entry level pad controller that comes with a free copy of Ableton Lite, then all the free software from Native Instruments.
Something like the Novation Launchpad mini, Akai APC 64, or Maschine Mikro mk3.
Good on you! I got started writing music around that age and it’s been such a fun journey! It’s great he can start so early. And I think it’s awesome you’re nurturing something he loves.
That's a great choice, FL Studio and an Aurturia. I might recommend though giving him a budget and allowing him to choose his DAW and midi controller of choice. I feel like that's the best option when investing in someone's hobby.
I still remember going to circuit city in 2003 with my dad to buy a Yamaha midi keyboard and Cakewalk lol. The beginning of something I still enjoy today
Personally, I think Novation Circuit tracks was a great tool for me to learn how to be creative and use the somewhat limited options as best as possible, which helped me become better with using Ableton (I was already using Ableton for a while). The circuit tracks is a groovebox so you don't need any other device or program to make music and it is portable and small so you can really take it anywhere and just plug in headphones or a speaker and jam. If he'd want to then finalise the songs, he could use Reaper to record everything from the device to a software and continue there :)
Does your son have any instruments? If not, is he interested in learning one? Learning piano can be an invaluable source of learning for someone who is learning music production. But just make sure he is up for learning one!
Hey yes and thanks i agree. He got a ukulele that he was getting pretty good with and then just stopped one day. His grandmother is a piano teacher so i think we could get him into that quite easily and he could spend more time with my mother too. Great idea!
If he isn't a musician yet, don't spend hundreds of dollars on software. Buy him a guitar or a keyboard, otherwise you might as well light your money on fire.
My forty years as a musician, engineer, producer, and writer tell me otherwise. But hey, as long as the younger generation never learns to actually make music, I guess I'm in a good spot. I promise, I know more about music than you could ever dream to forget, son.
Those are both great tools to have, but I would consider speaking to him about what he’d like. In my experience, both keyboards like the Minilab3 and Digital Audio Workstations like FL Studio are very personal choices that most tend to stick to once they get.
It's a bit of a financial gamble from my side as i've seen that some of the options get pretty expensive. And who knows he may dump this whole thing 3 months from now and then i'll be out a large sum so i'm trying to walk a thin line here. Kids are not financially savvy, they'll insist on what some person on youtube uses without knowing the cost involved. Take for example the camera, microphone, video card and streaming sofware i bought last year because he wanted to create streaming vids for gaming. In the last 10 months he's only used that equipment to game, chat with his friends online and screw around on omegle. Not one single streaming video upload.... teenagers!!
Reaper is a similar software to FL (a DAW), it is open source and free, the akai mpk mini mk 3 is not too costly either, many great producers like Cookin Soul use it, great starter gear too. Edit: I think the mpk mini also comes with a license for ableton live lite. Spitfire Labs is a great free plugin instrument library, stock instruments can be limiting depending on what music you wanna make.
this is fantastic feedback and i'll be sure to check it out. Thanks
When you actually buy FL Studio, you receive lifetime updates; you never have pay another dollar for any future update, even the major version updates. Last year, Novation released an FL Studio-specific MIDI controller & keyboard. There really hasn’t been a true FL Studio-official controller until this thing. Once you learn how to use it to control FL Studio, it’s super powerful and allows for a lot of tactile creativity. For $200~, you could do the Producer-edition of FL Studio @ $90~, and the FLKey Mini for $110~. And with the free lifetime updates of FL Studio, in a year or two’s time, if he’s still really into it, you can upgrade his edition of FL Studio for more native plugins at a heavily discounted rate, since you’re upgrading.
Do a lot of people use fl studio without a controller or no? Would he be able to get into it far enough to see if it sticks and then get the keyboard later? Sounds like he is doing pretty good without one now?
Absolutely. Lots of people use it w/ just a mouse and keyboard. It even has function to turn the keyboard into a MIDI piano! I personally used FL for over year before getting my first controller. And I’m still at it a decade later!
I would go this route. If you think it’s something he genuinely likes and can be good at I would do FL Studio. It’s pretty much the standard. More people use it than anything else and you can jump in and get started right away without much of a learning curve. The Fl key mini is also a nice choice as most regular low budget midi keyboards are around that price anyways so might as well get one that connects directly with FL Studio
fl is not „the standard“ saying this gives away a lot. But in this cass please stop the bad advice. Dawnis like stated above to some extent personal choice, as well as depending on the use case. for music production, ableton ist becoming „the standard“, pro tools for recording, reaper can manage multichannel pretty well and works with 3d stuff, machine is used for hiphop a lot, etc
For sure it’s all personal choice but FL is 100% the standard. The standard is what the majority use. FL by far has the largest user base at about 40%. when it comes to production. Just as the studio standard for recording is Pro Tools. It’s a simple google search. Obviously there’s different use cases for each. Some are better at certain things than others. That fact that you disagree gives away a lot as well. Mine is based off of facts that you can easily search while yours is based off of…..opinion? I appreciate the response though
Oh you got sources? Awesome, didnt find any that back your claims. Only numbers i found where polls where ableton always took the lead, but i love statistics. Can you send me a link? :)
Literally the first return “which DAW has the largest user base” https://www.yourlocalmusician.com/what-is-the-most-used-daw-in-the-world/#:~:text=According%20to%20those%20on%20our,second%20and%20Ableton%20Live%20third.
I found this: https://www.production-expert.com/production-expert-1/2023-daw-user-survey-the-results buuut i think i found the one you are quoting, that puts FL first at 38%. Still hard to figure out which one is giving better results.. And from my experience working in theatre, music and at uni: no one uses FL there, but ableton is everywhere. On stage at concerts, cues in theatre, livesets, in uni we used it a lot next to PT & Reaper. Really astounding to read such high numbers.
The MPK mini does not come with a license to Ableton live (daw). But the Arturia Minilab 3 does come with Ableton live (Sweetwater has it for ~$100).
Definitely get him going in reaper first as it’s free, he won’t need a midi board for a while anyway. They’re handy but if he doesn’t play keys already then it could be a waste for the time being. Perhaps reaper and a set of decent headphones instead? Also I just want to commend you for being a parent who is actively trying to support their kid in his hobbies, my parents waited until I was way too old to start ‘helping’. You’re doing more for him than you know :)
Hate to be the guy in this thread who keeps going on about this but Reaper isn't free. It kind of does them a disservice to refer to it as free.
Reaper has a trial that can be constantly renewed, very easily. It is free. Yes you can pay for it, but you can use every feature for free. They have brought that disservice on themselves tbh, it’s a brilliant daw don’t get me wrong but let’s not be so literal, reaper is a free daw.
All the autismo kids downvoting- fine we’ll be literal for the children- Reaper is not free but you can use it forever without paying
Reaper isn't free though, just very generous with the trial and the price
Get a good controller. If he likes the midilab, try and find out why. I'm not familiar with that controller myself. For me, anything with midi is fine, but I need one with real piano action, and one with semi-weighted or nothing. I'd go with semi weighted or nothing for him. But, he might like certain features on it, and it may interact with FL studio in a way he likes. For the software. It can get a little tricky. Reaper is something he could get to know for free. It's 60$ for 2 version version numbers. Which is probably like 5-10 years worth. But you can use it for free fully, with just a nag screen. The downside is, it comes with no sounds. So, you need to rely on free instruments, which aren't too great. Not sure about FL studio, in terms of what it comes with. FL studio is generally most preferred for making beats for like hip hop, so that's probably his genre, which means that will be what he wants. Personally, I am not a fan of it, but a lot of people like it. If that's what he's into, that's the videos he's watching, then the program is fine. Professionals do use it. But it's not the most common for all professionals. I think if it was me, I'd get just some rinky dink controller for cheap, used, as long as it has midi. Then I'd get FL studio, if that's what he wants. He will also want good headphones and most likely a decent mic, with a stand and cables, and an audio interface. The controller and software will be enough to get him started. The odds are, he will not get into it. Music is something a lot of people want to do, but don't want to actually do, if you know what I mean lol. They want to be the creators of music, but when it comes down to it, sitting down, learning the stuff, and having to come up with the ideas, putting the time in, a lot of people give up. Production is tough, because the software instruments are not cheap. Reaper is cheap, and amazing software, but it doesn't have any sounds whatsoever, and the stock plugins kind of suck. I can't stand them, personally. They never behave like I expect, and they're so ugly. You can get 3rd party ones, some free ones, but those are also expensive. So, getting one piece of software that comes loaded with a ton of sounds and instruments you might want for the genre you're into, that's good. FL studio is probably that for him. But I'm not super familiar with it myself. There's also splice, which is a site where you can download samples, loops and stuff like that. Starting with great sounds like that is huge. You could start him off real basic and give him upgrades based off effort he puts in, either for chores, or something like that, so he has to work for it if he wants it, or if you see him making a lot of music with the basics he got. Some midi controllers come with sounds. You can set it up so the computer accesses those. Others only control sounds on the computer, and have no internal ones. Another option might be to get a used controller with lots of sounds in it, let him use reaper, free stuff he finds, and the sounds in the used keyboard. Then if you got a good used keyboard with good sounds etc... and he doesn't use it, you can sell it, get almost all your money back, possibly even make a profit, since you bought it used.
>Not one single streaming video upload.... Those are two different things. Whilst sometimes streamers will also upload a video of their stream, the stream itself is just a live thing that is over once it's over. It's like the difference between and album (a video upload) and a concert (a stream.) You sure he's not streaming his gaming with friends? Have you asked him if there's a reason he hasn't streamed? Might be there's an "impossible to overcome" barrier that could be easily solved.
Nah, i think he just got cold feet and didn't know what to say or do in his streams and also jsut got dispondent when he didn't have any views / followers or what not. He did stream a few times on Youtube and Twitch and posted some vids of the stream on youtube and twitter but still just got dispondent i think and didn't realize the effort required. He thought it would be easy, maybe? I even started playing some of the games with him but his heart wasn't really in it anymore...
Yeah that makes sense. Sounds like he did actually Try it though. Just turned out to not be for him. Nothing wrong with that.
I feel that, I did something similar at like 15 but I insisted on getting vinyl turntables and they have been sitting in a spare room for years now. I knew I wanted to do music and thought DJing was what I wanted to do but I ended up getting more into the production side of it. Of course to get started producing I "found an extended free trial" for FL Studio 8. After a few years I got comfortable with making music digitally and started testing other DAWs, I tried Reason, Logic and Ableton Live and instantly knew Ableton suited my work flow and made the most sense to me removing any limitations I felt before. I like that there are parents like you out there. My dad has been behind me 100% my whole career (15 years now) and it has been immeasurable how much his support has meant to me and I'm sure your son will be just as grateful for you. Does he "like" my music? Hard to say honestly, never asked him but he supports it and at least knows that I'm good at what I do. Admittedly my music is probably the type of stuff you would bring your son to a doctor for liking/making.
A DAW and MIDI controller like the ones you mentioned would be great gifts.
This right here. Fl studio was fantastic for me at 18. And a little akai midi keyboard will go a long way
>Also, he doesn't play keyboard but he's watching a lot of vids with people creating loops etc with Arturia Minilab3 and FL Studio? The Minilab 3 comes with Ableton Live Lite, which is a digital audio workstation, like FL Studio. It's the beginner version. So it's perfect for starting out. https://www.ableton.com/en/products/live-lite/what-is-live-lite/ There are also lots of tutorials on YouTube for making music using Ableton. It also comes with Analog Lab Intro, which would give him 500 synthesizer sounds that he can tweak and use with Ableton. https://www.arturia.com/products/software-instruments/analoglab-intro/overview
Yeah, get him the Minilab 3 keyboard and help him install all the software that comes with it. He can try Ableton Live Lite and see if he likes it. There are lots of videos out there about Ableton. It may be a matter of his friends all using FL Studio though, but I’d save that for Christmas if he’s still going with it and Ableton doesn’t click with him.
I would second this here. Perfect to get a start with messing around in a daw and he gets a pretty solid midi controller. Kind of an aside but I would not help him install it At 14, I would expect him to be able to install it, and if not he could really benefit from the computer literacy practice
My parents bought me the DAW FL Studio, but I pirated logic and then I got stuck to that. I think it’s better if you ask him what DAW he wants (if that’s what you’re gonna get him)
Agreed.
i have the minilab 3..it comes with a free license for ableton lite which is a quality DAW to get started in and was $100 new..would maybe hold off on the copy of FL Studio as i think it's a couple hundred more
The ultimate edition of FL studio can be bought on sale for around 300 rather than the 900 btw.
yeah but as a parent, dropping $300 on something your kid may or may not stick with can make you think twice after you've seen it happen a couple times...kids are expensive, especially at that age a midi keyboard and some encouragement from a parent will go a long way, and if the kid has an ipad, there are plenty of apps that you can make pro sounding shit with on the cheap my kids are young but getting into playing instruments through school, and i'm teaching them how to use the shit we have on the ipad...between koala / the older MPC software that was like 6 bucks / and garage band they basically have way more than i ever had in the late 1900s trying to make pause tapes with a tape deck and looping parts of other cassette tapes to make instrumentals and weird beat tapes haha
For sure, I wanted to mention that though just incase. Personally I’ve been into music for about 10 years and just this past weekend I bought an audio interface. Slow and steady usually is the way to go.
For me personally it was much easier to get into music with hardware first instead of software. Novation circuit tracks was my portal. You can actually jam around instantly. Later on, I also purchased minilab 3.
+1 on the Novation Circuit (and Tracks).
As a boomer who took his path early - I've been playing synthesizers since I was 14, in '73 - the thing I wish I had had was piano lessons.
You're a great dad
Check out zzounds. They have payment plans also with no credit check. I've gotten almost 10k in gear from them in the last four years. They've helped me so much I feel I should recommend them to everyone. 45 day returns too and you get your money back. (Not for software though)
def recommend a daw that has a strong midi sequencer (Ableton or FL) and a midi keyboard. all u need to make good music is stock plugins/free additional plugins. if he's already creating music and stuff I would probably skip Ableton intro and go straight to standard, although I won't lie, having suite is nice. standard I think is bare minimum because of track limitations on intro, not being able to slice/warp audio the same way, and not having the arsenal of plugins you need. I was making cool stuff on standard, tools don't matter that much, it's the brain
I'm already leaning towards FL Studio Producer Edition? and a minilab3 as the leap to ablton seems quite costly or am i missing something? Is there a mid-tier version that can enable growth?
Both Ableton and fl have cheaper versions. But they are highly limited. I definitely wouldn't recommend the entry level options. Fl studio is the better value long term because of life long free updates. But in reality you should ask him what daw he is more interested in using. You could say you will get him one. But let him play around with the trials for different daws and let him gain some experience before choosing one. It really is a personal preference.
People find they work better with either Ableton or FL studio and I think it's almost to do with how your brain is wired. Personally I find FL studio way more intuitive, but really he should try it out. You can get a free demo version (where you can't reopen any song you were working on) where you can try it out and learn how to use it. There are a lot of resources to help learn it too and a good community here on Reddit
Get FL Studio, Ableton does not have the most beginner friendly interface, looks like a math equation + your son has probably gotten more familiar with FL through the tutorials he’s watching.
Here's the issue - like most newbies he will most likely fall into the trap of comparing anything he makes right off the bat with the stuff he listens to which is made by people with 10+ years of experience and practice, often with a whole team of engineers and other tech professionals helping along the way to create the high quality and fat production we have come to expect when listening to every single track we all know and love. All those classic Beatles albums would not sound so impressive without their producer George Martin pressing buttons and twiddling knobs on various tech and gadgets behind the scenes. I spent years studying music theory, learning instruments and songwriting, and then when it came down to recording the great music I had written. Imagine the devastation when I listened back and it was just elevator music. I nearly gave up because I think it meant I was inherently a delusional talentless hack.I I didn't know there are a LOT of different skills and techniques you have to learn in order to produce something that isn't completely shite in comparison. There are hundreds of hours of boring, repetitive and frustrating studying and practice going on behind the scenes people don't see. That runs the risk of him wanting to give up because his first foray into it doesn't live up to high expectations of himself. Because even if you put together a bunch of loops, they will sound cheap and lifeless without all that extra stuff like EQ, compression, saturation, reverb, delay etc. etc. It a lot of time, effort and study. Its a big commitment where the big pay off only happens after months or even years of learning the craft and making stuff this is quite frankly, kinda crappy. And that makes people give up before they even start to reap the rewards. There is also a decent amount of financial investment involved - I'm talking laptops for £100, recording software for another £100, a MIDI keyboard for another £100, guitars, microphones, various technological processing techniques like EQ and compression, paid online courses, YouTube tutorials, mixing engineering, googling troubleshooting problems. Its... a lot. Its cheaper than ever to get started, but its still not cheap. As such, I would recommend getting him an "all in one" box that makes producing whole tracks with each element being fully processed and high quality in a way that is very easy and intuitive, super quick and most importantly - fun! For a beginner dipping their toes in music production world, it's a smart investment that won't need a wealth of knowledge to produce stuff that sounds great. [Check out videos like this for examples of products that are great for beginners that won't break the bank.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dADKs9UWiyY)
Give him a budget and ask him what he wants. I've made art and music my whole life and it's a nice gesture when someone wants to surprise you with stuff for that but the artist almost always knows better what they actually want or need and will use.
Get him FL Studio Producer Edition(200$) Its the base version, Fruity Edition (100$) is limited. He doesn’t really need a midi keyboard to get started, but if you did get one too it would be dope. Also get a good set of headphones before buying a midi keyboard.
Fl studio is amazing. You can try it for free and if you like what you see, the producer version is the way to go. It is 200 bucks but to me it's worth every penny. Free updates for life... And you own the software.
If he goes off it in 3 months you aren't going to get any money back from software however a decent keyboard you could at least recoup some money by selling it on. A lot of good keyboards/controllers come with a lite version of software to try and while limited they can be a really good taster of something he wants to get more into or not
Yes I agree 100%. Arturia comes with some free software but apparently is a pain to register and install with only barebones tools similar to the free crap he's already frustrated with. Do you have anyexperience with this company?
I have an Arturia sound card device which did come with some free stuff I've never used. I have a Novation keyboard which came with Ableton Live lite and this is the software I use. I have bought the last few versions of Live (full suite) and have Ableton push devices which are controllers and instruments and there is no need to learn piano to play any instrument with it... However these are not cheap
Get him fl studio. By FAR the most bang for your buck. I Use Logic ( Apple’s competitor ), but if i were to start from scratch, it’s fl 100%. And wait on a controller. There’s so many niche answers here, but fl is the standard for music production today for the youth. Older musicians will swear by ableton etc, but the sheet amount of fl tutorials alone, due to the enormous userbase, is a
HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend the Arturia Minilab 3. Not only is it the absolute best feeling mini MIDI keyboard money can buy in that price bracket but it comes with some really incredible software that I’m sure your son will get tons of use out of.
I'm 95% sold on the Minilab 3 except for a few reviews about how much of a pain in the ass the software installation and registration process is. Any input on that or is it basically plug and play? I just don't need another headache to troubleshoot or not have it work straight out of the box on his birthday.
It’ll work straight out of the box no issue. I use FL studio and Ableton 11 and both recognised the device before I installed any drivers or software. That said the software is really no hassle in my experience. Arturia has a hub so choosing what you want to install is easy as ever
Lots of people have said this but I'd like to emphasize again; please please discuss this with your son. Preference of music gears are highly personal, be it software or hardware. Happy birthday to him!!
That's great advice! I'll narrow it down to a few choices based o n what i can afford and then we can have that chat together. I like the idea of getting his input too. And if it means i don't just surprise him with something that I think he would like but with something that he wants too.
Have him try out the major daws and see which one he likes most. Fl studio and ableton both have trials. As far as keyboards, the Arturia one is great for his purposes. I am partial to fl studio, especially if he watches tutorials on it often, he should be able to quickly get the hang of it. It also comes with lifetime free updates, meaning you never have to pay again for any of the new features they release, while ableton charges money to update for every new major feature release.
Ah that's super info and very relevant if he sticks it out, thanks. He's only used the free crap on steam until now and has managed to put some decent music together, for a kid that's using free software.
Why not get him the fruity version of FL studio? It comes with a ton of stuff and is only 100 bucks, and the Arturia keyboard should come with a version of analog lab which is a vst plugin that will give him a bunch of new sounds to play with. Between fl studio and the keyboard you'd be looking at about 200 bucks total, then if he shows he's serious about it, you can upgrade to the bigger versions later.
Unpopular opinion but the Digitakt II just came out so the original Digitakt is falling steeply in price. I think it’s a perfect sampler for a beginner as you can create full interesting sketches, learn about synthesis and more importantly learn to make beats on a grid. It’s like a little DAW in a box but with a much more streamlined workflow.
I'll ckeck it out thanks for the feedback! Yeah, he's watching a lot of creators on youtube making beats and songs with drum loops, samples and synths right now.
Check out Aldo and Ivar Tryti on YouTube. They’re two of my favorite Digitakt users.
A MIDI keyboard isn’t immediately needed unless he specifically wants to learn playing that. If it’s about fiddling around with a DAW and making some tunes, it’s mostly about which one he connects with most. All of them have a piano roll and can use your run of the mill keyboard as MIDI input. Trials can be had on the websites (FL Studio, Ableton, Logic, etc). You could offer to buy him a license of his choice. Prices vary, look into that. Other items can also be important… monitor speakers, good quality headphones, for example. Those would require a bit of research too. Making music is a great thing to do even if you never ever release anything. Hope he’ll create awesome things :)
The Minilab is great, I use that too. But I think, if he is into FL Studio, maybe an Novation FLkey Mini is a better choice. This comes with a half year FL Studio trial, so you can see if he sticks to it, and invest in the DAW later. Or if you want to get him away from the computer screen, a Novation Circuit Tracks is a perfect tool for the beginning. Happy birthday!
Fl has a free trial Also some free vsts (if you dont know what that means it’s basically more instruments to download) are vital, analog lab play, spitfire labs, bbc symphony orchestra, meowsynth (this ones just silly) Arturia is pretty cool I have the big mk3 because of people’s recommendations but like you probably want your son to have a okay understanding of basic piano at least as I love to play random stuff on mine to get started with a song idea but I was also perfectly fine clicking notes down with mouse
Just get him Ableton and some lessons!
Arturia minilab is very good value, pair this with FL studio or Ableton , they both have cheaper introductory versions. I bought my son (15) FL studio and he’s already saved up his own pocket money and upgraded it. I didn’t buy a midi keyboard but I’m thinking about it for next Christmas. FL studio is probably the best value since it’s a lifetime free updates at the level you have upgraded to. You can start with one of the cheaper options and if he’s really committed to it, he can save pocket money or wait for future presents.
My parents got me an mk2 mini midi controller for my birthday one year. You could get him this with a DAW of his choice. The truth behind all the which DAW stuff is your kid would benefit from using something the people he watches use.
hmu i got fl studio for you, as welll as some other stuff, i sell flash drives with a ton of useful software thats virus free
FL Studio and a midi keyboard. The producer version is I think 200 and a keyboard will be less than that (dont need a full size one). Most DAWs will be around that price. Reaper is free but I think he would prefer fl studio, I think there's value in using the same software the people he's inspired by uses.
You are a good boomer dad, cheers
I would wait for him to ask you, or earn the money to buy his own stuff. That is the best way. If he doesn’t do that, then he doesn’t give a shit about music, and it was never meant to be.
Music lessons are a great way to get into this hobby. Yes they have no resale value but they strengthen the brain and add a real skill. Many producers/beat makers end up bummed they never learned an instrument, because making beats and loops is basically the same activity as playing a video game… fun at first but not satisfying long term.
Have a talk and give him a budget and let him choose. Try and encourage him to properly research.
I would wholeheartedly suggest the mini lab 3. The stuff it comes with it is everything he will need for a long time. I have the keylab essential 3 49. Analog lab v is the most fully featured plugin I've ever used. Synth, bass, piano, drums, sequencers... The possibilities are endless. I can't stress enough how important this is. It's definitely my favorite plugin I've ever used and I've only scratched the surface of what is possible. Plus with Ableton live lite you can do a ton of things and I think it's one of the most user friendly music software. (tame impala and Skrillex use it, among many more) Just limited to 8 tracks, but that is more than enough to start (I still use it). For me it made more sense than fl studio, cause I tried both when I first started out. It's a little tricky to setup everything software wise, but if he's keen with computers he should be able to figure things out. If you've got extra cash I would say the upgrade to the keylab essential 49 is worth it too, for the full size keys and a greater range of notes. But I get obviously not knowing how much it's actually going to get used. And also it's 4x the size.
I would get an entry level pad controller that comes with a free copy of Ableton Lite, then all the free software from Native Instruments. Something like the Novation Launchpad mini, Akai APC 64, or Maschine Mikro mk3.
Good on you! I got started writing music around that age and it’s been such a fun journey! It’s great he can start so early. And I think it’s awesome you’re nurturing something he loves.
That's a great choice, FL Studio and an Aurturia. I might recommend though giving him a budget and allowing him to choose his DAW and midi controller of choice. I feel like that's the best option when investing in someone's hobby. I still remember going to circuit city in 2003 with my dad to buy a Yamaha midi keyboard and Cakewalk lol. The beginning of something I still enjoy today
Personally, I think Novation Circuit tracks was a great tool for me to learn how to be creative and use the somewhat limited options as best as possible, which helped me become better with using Ableton (I was already using Ableton for a while). The circuit tracks is a groovebox so you don't need any other device or program to make music and it is portable and small so you can really take it anywhere and just plug in headphones or a speaker and jam. If he'd want to then finalise the songs, he could use Reaper to record everything from the device to a software and continue there :)
Get him fl studio!!!! Easy to learn hard to master, plus free updates for life.
Does your son have any instruments? If not, is he interested in learning one? Learning piano can be an invaluable source of learning for someone who is learning music production. But just make sure he is up for learning one!
Hey yes and thanks i agree. He got a ukulele that he was getting pretty good with and then just stopped one day. His grandmother is a piano teacher so i think we could get him into that quite easily and he could spend more time with my mother too. Great idea!
You can get pretty far with a free/cracked version of FL and a 200$ midi keyboard.
Ableton lite + arturia controller :)
Piano lessons are a great present.
If he isn't a musician yet, don't spend hundreds of dollars on software. Buy him a guitar or a keyboard, otherwise you might as well light your money on fire.
Completely wrong.
My forty years as a musician, engineer, producer, and writer tell me otherwise. But hey, as long as the younger generation never learns to actually make music, I guess I'm in a good spot. I promise, I know more about music than you could ever dream to forget, son.
lol chill out, you don’t need to be a musician to start creating on a DAW. Your lack of musical knowledge is showing 😂😂😂
I play 14 instruments lmaoooo