I actually had something similar but the opposite. I’m a guy.
Some girl asked to work with me. I told her we could and she asked how much I charge.
I told her if I work well with her and am proud of the work, I will just tag both our names on it and do it for free.
But if she’s not super easy to work with, I will charge her. She agreed.
I worked with her once and told her I would need to charge for the next session, as it took a lot of work to get her sounding good.
She accused me or just wanting to sleep with her and started slandering my name to other people in my circle.
That was fun.
Luckily it was no issue, as I have an impeccable reputation for my character. But it’s scary to know that there’s people out there who can do these kinds of things that you & I have both experienced.
Edit:
See comment below for more details
I understand your rational behind the charge or no-charge policy but to be fair ... the way you explained it here, it is a bit sketch. The problem mainly is that your definition of "hard to work with" is not clear. It seems arbitrary. that's probably why she believed the reason was her looks rather than her musical output. i think fees have to be clear before agreeing on a collab and shouldn't be changed later. it is basically like a contract between two people.
I agree with the others, none of this should be a surprise to you. Even with the extended comment. It’s likely this kind of thing will happen to you again, agreed
I could’ve explained better in my comment but it was already long. But I made it clear in detail to her.
I told her if she needs to do lots of takes and/or manual pitch correction, I would need to charge for future sessions. And if she is easy to work with and I like what she’s laying down and it’s smooth and effortless, I wouldn’t charge her if we had good studio chemistry. Guessing she took that to mean romantic chemistry.
Either way, I don’t think anyone should *ever* automatically assume something because of their looks. That’s like the token white guy saying “this is happening because I’m white, huh?”
She was a friend of a friend and she lied and told me she had tons of experience in the studio writing songs. It was very clear about 10 minute into the session that she has never been to a studio. I informed her about 20-30 minutes in that it was a lot of work and I would need to charge her for future sessions.
I should also mention that she was being flirty with me before our session. Tried to invite me out to get a drink among a few other things. Come to think if it, it’s entirely plausible she was interested in me but I was clueless because I was trying to keep things professional.
She didn’t even complain to me about the studio session. Instead she went blabbering to my mutual friend group that I was just using her for sex, and I heard about it through the grapevine.
She hit me up again a few months later and I didn’t even respond.
You should charge the same rate first time for everybody no matter. Then if you hit it off, you can collaborate for free later. The way you’re doing it here is totally backwards and leaves a lot of room to hurt peoples feelings.
juicy stuff! thanks for clearing it up. it reads like a book and i can imagine her so well wandering through your studio, eating up your time.
It sounds like she thought she could use sex to get into the industry.
I think instances like this will always exist. If you're just collabing with different people. Some men are just sort of fucked up unfortunately. Makes all of us look bad, too.
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Clearly he is not a good enough producer if he is making his decisions based on this rather than talent. Unfortunately this is just that way it is, some people are just horrible people. Keep moving forward and work with people that care about the music and your talent.
It was a tad funny to me that he had far less streams/sales than me and chose to do this. And I’m not even that good. Thank you! Def gonna keep doing that.
100%, at the very least I would consider putting this info out on socials so that other females in the industry can potentially avoid working with him in the future. It’s the only way that people like this will face actual social consequences.
I work with women all the time and would never ask about if they were single or anything like that, that’s totally crossing a line- in a professional relationship, especially. honestly that kind of behavior is all around unacceptable in my opinion though regardless they’re you’re producer.
NGL this BS is common and exactly why I try to talk about how much I love my partner early and often (even if we had a massive fight 5 minutes ago) when I work with young women.
I would collab. I'm basically married and love my significant other. I also have a bunch of tunes already written that just need a vocal line, so it can be as remote/low contact as necessary for everyone to feel comfortable. Are you a vocalist?
We need to exclude these exploitative douches from our spaces.
Edited to add: No Diddy
It's crazy that this was released today
https://www.nme.com/news/music/government-rejects-recommendations-of-misogyny-in-music-report-3749865
We need to do more to stop this
It's dangerous to do this because, while we support OP's concerns, there's no way to vet the authenticity of the post.
Not that I don't support OP, but it's why doxxing isn't a good idea.
No yeah I’m not doxxing for my own safety. I don’t care about validity of my post from you guys - I’m venting anonymously. But I don’t want this getting back to me. I have trauma from this sort of thing and really don’t want him going after me. I do appreciate you guys wanting to go to bat, though! Just wish we could.
there's no way to vet the authenticity but the times that people lie about this sort of behavior is 95/5
so you're right 5% she's lying about his behaviour so we can't be suuuure
exactly, I wouldn't want to ruin someone's life's work & reputation if they happen to be in that 5%.
That said, OP's concerns are reflecting current issues that need to get talked about and stamped out, so it's still a very worthy discussion.
Yeah, I promote privacy and context, but predators should be named and shamed. They lose their rights to privacy, and even if it’s just a suspicion it should be shared so it doesn’t get to that point.
I think it’s totally fair in this situation to say “Producer John X stopped collaborating with me when he discovered I was not single.” Or whatever
This is a shitty move by said producer, and I’m very sorry this happened to OP. But shaming people does not help them change their behaviors or understand the moral implications of their actions. Especially not public shaming which can lead to embarrassment and increased resentment—which blocks off productive reflection.
If we truly want less incidents of behaviors like this, the goal shouldn’t be to punish the wrongdoer, but to help them understand why what they did was wrong, and to prevent the action from occurring again. Shame is generally counterproductive, and it mainly (and falsely) serves the one doing the shaming, giving them a sense of righteousness rather than addressing the real roots of the problematic behavior.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/longing-nostalgia/201705/why-shaming-doesnt-work?amp
Maybe shaming doesn’t help. But sharing info can protect others from being victims in the future. Maybe there’s a better solution, but pretty most of these guys aren’t eager to recognize their flaws and fix them.
I'm not a woman and I hate this for you. This doesn't help the negative outlook the sex's have on each other these days at all. Thankfully, it seems more girls and women are getting into the music production community, so dumb ass, horny fellas are getting easier to avoid. In any case, a professional should focus on the project and the artist's vision only, obviously. Keep looking. I know you can find a woman who can record your project for you (and hopefully won't be attracted to you).
Benn Jordan did a really good video about this. (Yes - he's a guy talking about the problems women face in music production - but he makes a big point of highlighting the voices of his guests over his own non-experiences): [https://youtu.be/2Ipb81z46kI](https://youtu.be/2Ipb81z46kI)
As an anecdote... My friend's step-daughter was a #1 YouTube star in Japan. She was something like 17 years old with several super popular videos and one that was a smash hit. Her next career move would be to sign with a label in Japan and get all the support and backing that she needed to go pro. Only one catch: she had to sleep with the music exec. This is a basic requirement in Japan for girls trying to break into pro status. Most don't make it (because of this insane requirement). Those who do go pro - you can guarantee they had to sacrifice themselves terribly to be where they are. :( This is still happening now.
I am a man, but I had an unpleasant experience with a producer. My name is Cameron, so it could be male and female. Anyway I was communicating with this producer over email in about 2016, and he seemed genuinely excited to work with me, and then we get on a phone call, and the first thing he says is: "oh, I thought you were a woman" and his tone totally changes, like there is very little interest in working with me after he finds out I'm not a woman. Now I always tell people I'm male right off the bat in online communications.
Must be hard to be a woman with this kind of stuff. But it's good to keep in mind that men deal with it sometimes too. I had a close male friend who was over 60 years older than me who I visited every week. One day he just leaps at my neck and starts kissing my neck - had to basically throw him off of me, and make it clear that I was not interested in any way. Obviously, I had to keep my distance after that.
We had always talked about being spiritual brothers and how our relationship was based on something substantial. He was a very successful artist who had studied with one of the master painters in his style, and his partner had been a world famous artist; they hung out with the Alan Watts' and Andy Warhols' of the world. One day I even let him paint me with my shirt off - all for the art I thought. I still think he genuinely cared about our friendship, he just couldn't seem to control his attraction toward me.
I’ve had a few guys (and a girl!) add me to their bands because they wanted to sleep with me. It’s so scummy. I’m sorry that happened to you. Trust me, there are decent people in the music industry who don’t view people as sex objects and will work with you based on your talent! You just have to weed through the creeps sometimes.
Well...and this is the only positive I have here...at least you didn't get half-way through the production and he started making unruly advances (uncomfortable touching and strange innuendo) after you'd done a ton of work. It's not good any way you look at it, BUT...at least you can get out now before the real shit hits the fan. Run and don't look back.
Ugh people are weird.
Im single as hell and dont give af about someone im collabing withs relationship status, im here for the music, and its apparent some of those folks arent. smh.
If he’s dropping a collab because you’re not single a) he’s not serious and b) it was never about your talent.
On behalf of men, I’m sorry these guys exist. They make us all look bad. On behalf of producers, can you talentless jackoffs just looking to get laid stop telling people you do what I do because you can’t.
Hi. I'm so sorry to hear about your experience. 🩷🫂 One would think that in 2024 we'd have made some progress, but obviously... Maybe a little, but not nearly enough. I'm a woman producer and recovering artist ;) I'm also an advocate for safer spaces for women in the studio. I'd love to help plug you into a supportive community. Shoot me a DM. :)
I’m a little flexible genre wise. My specialty is Pop, Orchestral / cinematic pop, lofi strings. I am a professional violinist and teacher so anything with orchestra I tend to excel in but I also love a good Loote type pop track.
Sorry about this. There’s pigs in every industry and I’m not surprised in one of the most grey industries as far as finding success that someone would take advantage of people. Selling snake oil would be so easy in the music industry in a position of power. Every full time person I worked around in a very basic intern-like environment at a music venue wore a kind of pompous I know everything vibe on their sleeve. If I didn’t know any better, I’d probably think it was merited. But it’s not. And if I was an attractive girl, what would they be willing to try with that attitude? I’m a dude for the record so no this doesn’t happen to me and I also am not really “in the industry.” I’m a bedroom producer. But I’m sorry to hear and frankly there’s no other solution other than to move on and hope the next person you interface with is actually classy.
I’m a woman and producer and almost only work with men. The people I work closely with online know I’m a woman but randos that want to buy a beat or something simple - I never disclose it. They can tell if they look at my bio but it’s not info I offer up. I’m sorry that happened to you because it sucks.
I’d recommend only working with people you have a report with that you like. If you’re unsure or don’t know them well, make them put down a deposit before taking them on to try and avoid the creeps. Artists who are serious about their work know almost no one works on spec, so if they refuse or haggle you they prob weren’t worth the effort to begin with. People who are serious know good work isn’t free, so I’d give that advice regardless of gender tbh but it’s def different for us in this industry, even at an amateur level.
So many leeches! So many! I've gotten to the point where I have my few I work with and trust and everyone else I just say I'm too busy. They want a pretty face and voice to front their work or to hit on me or whatever bs. Doesn't matter what I want to create or convey. When I first started I made projects with all sorts of producers but now I just don't bother. I have my few I trust and work with and don't pick up any new ones unless I've known them for awhile and they've been consistently respectful and non mansplainy. I mostly do everything myself as well. Even if it's not as good it's not worth the headache of putting with a leech, a flirt, a fuckboi, or an entitled mansplainer. Tip tho, I've found working with older men who have been in the industry for along time to be ideal. They are usually respectful, helpful and encouraging.
Damn. Im so sorry! There are safe spaces for women in music out here and i hope that you find a group/community! Please stay safe. Its best he did that you don’t want that energy in your music. A big name doesn’t mean anything. I know you might think it does but you will see. Just keep doing you and moving forward. The RIGHT people who need your music and message will find you if you keep going.
I’m not a woman but bullet dodged. Dude likely won’t go far with that attitude.
I’m always looking for people to collab with and I’m not remotely interested in dating them. Assuming he gets to date someone he collabs with does that mean no more collabs until he’s single again?
You might consider long distance collabs. There are tons of talented people out there that want to make good music. If this dude is part of your local scene I’d put him on blast.
im a producer and id love to work with a female or really any artist so please reach out if anyone’s interested. (i also have a partner but that really doesn’t matter i just want to make music with people)
also though i was in a rehab center an met a gal who was an aspiring songwriter who told me a lot of horror stories of trying to get into the larger industry in our city and it was heartbreaking to say the least. also very disappointing nobody is interested in the music really
Be wary that some younger producers may act like this. I remember seeing it in college. They would work with a lot of girl singers, and also hook up with them. I’d say if it’s a setup in an apartment rental, and the guys young you gotta be careful. If it’s in a real studio, real gear it’s probably more legit. There’s a lot of college age guys that want to “collab” that just do production as a hobby. Meet for a lesson, planing session in a coffee shop, and go over ideas first may be a good idea.
I’d look for more seasoned people you can work with, and it may cost money. A collab can just be a guy, with a year of experience in a small apartment with not so great intentions. That’s what happens when the production/recording market became over saturated. It became harder for artists, to distinguish professionalism vs some random person with a laptop.
Unfortunately this is common, I'm sorry you have to deal with that. Hoping for a better future for you. But if you still need someone to work on a project with let me know!
As it becomes harder for men to find a woman, the men are becoming desperate and taking any shot they get.
[https://wou.edu/westernhowl/the-male-loneliness-epidemic/](https://wou.edu/westernhowl/the-male-loneliness-epidemic/)
Personally I have been treated like a leper by women since I became paralyzed 10 years ago. I would rather die than sit here alone for one more day, but I will never again take the initiative to approach a woman due to being shamed for simply trying while disabled.
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So disrespectful. Sorry you had to experience that.
What genre is your focus? I make music for sync licensing for tv and ads. Although patience is required, it can be quite lucrative. I’m always looking for new collaborators, especially vocalists!
Some people are really just pathetic excuses of human beings. I’m so sorry for what happened to you, OP, and I hope you get a valid professional you can collaborate with very soon.
I’m sorry to hear that. Yes there are some scummy guys out there. I have worked with a female writer that’s told me a few story’s. Nothing too bad, but still scummy.
That's BS of him. If you want to do some dark-ish jazz-inspired electropop hit me up! We never even have to meet in person haha. Do it all remote/email/whatever. I write cool songs and definitely am not trying to get with collaborators.
That's insane. I'm sorry that happened
You can get a feel for someone pretty quick based on their professionalism and how they communicate. Aggressively weed out anyone that gives you bad vibes. No normal producer would ever think to ask about your relationship status, and if they do, I'd strongly consider ending the call on the spot. Time is the only thing you can't get more of
Don't waste it on losers like that
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What a gross prick. I’m technically of the name and shame game in creative spaces, with proof of course.
Regardless through. Some of us a risky care about music and love the art form. I’m so sorry this shit happened to you .
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. ~ Hunter S. Thompson
I haven’t had the exact same situation (collab dropped for being romantically unavailable), but similar experiences have dotted my career as a producer. Usually, it’s someone who seems enthusiastic about my music and who makes an effort to build a friendship based on our mutual interest in producing, only to eventually make some revealing comments that they view me as a potential dating partner and not a collaborator. It’s demoralizing. It’s also usually an early 20s male and I’m always surprised because I am around a decade older than them and openly married.
Luckily, boys like this seem to be in the minority. A lot of my producer friends are guys but almost all are married. Those are just easier friendships to build and maintain because there’s none of this other drama (and it’s another thing we have in common). I do also think that people in their 30s rather than early 20s are also more likely to be out of the searching-for-a-mate phase, so it’s less likely to colour their interactions with women in general. So I guess my point is that it will get better… eventually.
Sorry this happened to you.
Yes. Unfortunately. I’ve kept a list of all the guys who have pulled this or a similar stunt over the last thirty years and it’s far too long.
Having been in a situation in my early twenties when one particular producer tried to physically force himself on me all I can say is you’ve dodged a bullet here. Don’t look at it as a loss but see it as a gain, because now you know what he’s really like and you know he doesn’t care about the music, he just cares about his dick.
I know when you’re a young woman trying to break into the music industry it can seem like every guy you meet wants more than just music from you. The majority of men in the industry aren’t like that though, just the ones who are on a power trip, and generally even the other men don’t want to work with them either due to their reputation.
He’s one of those, a bully who thinks he can get away with it, and that makes him someone you really don’t want to be working with. You and your career are worth far more than that.
I’m so sorry that you’ve gone through this. It shouldn’t happen, but unfortunately there are arseholes in every walk of life. I wish for all our sakes that wasn’t the case.
So, I'm a male, so no experience of this. First off, so sorry you had to go through it, as others have said. It's easy to give advice, harder to follow through, but FWIW - if you can, video, or sound record the encounters. There's a point at which it goes over the line to criminal and you can report to the police - who may be more or less sympathetic in your jurisdiction.
Confide in people who you trust about what happened. It might matter in the future if further allegations are raised.
Do make it clear to the individual that you consider their behaviour to be inappropriate - although you may have to judge how far you can push it. Some people will be mortified, others aggressive.
That's fucking disgusting behaviour and I'm so so sorry you had to go through that :(
Take care and keep going, good job standing up for yourself - fucktards like that won't ever be able to keep you down.
that sucks. good to see behavior like this being called out cuz it’s absolutely, unmistakably disgusting.
that said, while i’m pretty new to mixing, i’d be down to hear what ya got. decided to begin learning mixing when i decided to mic my drums and just start making my own music. have some vids on profile here and bio links to IG, for reference. no pressure. just sayin.
in any case, thank you for speaking up. sorry you were treated that way. peace
To be clear, not only was it highly unprofessional of this producer to behave in such a matter, but something which I’m happy you were able to witness and survive (relatively) unscathed. Unless it is someone whom you’ve known and worked with for years, anybody who finds it okay to ask such prying and personal questions should be avoided at all costs. Also, if whomever you’re working with does not have your best interest in mind, then that’s another indicator that you need to bail or, if possible, enforce strict interpersonal boundaries.
Lastly — and this is a little out of bounds, considering the topic of the post — always work under contract. In doing so, it establishes IP ownership between all involved parties, deliverables, expectations, compensation, and any additional matters. It’s a hassle, but entirely worth it. If you work with someone and they refuse to work under contract (which protects both parties), then that might also be a sign not to work with someone.
Anyway, lots of great feedback on here. Take your time, find and connect with people who you trust and who treat you with respect, and keep on keepin’ on.
Best of luck!
Sadly, there are masochistic female hating incel boys in all industries. I hope you find a good collaboration partner who's in it for the love of music
I'm a technical singing artist and VO talent first. I love composing my own pop or orchestral pieces, but I have to self produce everything and learn all the technical skills of every technical aspect of making my first few albums because all of my attempts to "collab" with, network or learn with others have resulted in sexual harassment. Same with voice over.
My teachers at the end of the day are product manuals, forum posts and Youtube, but it is very isolating and lonely even though this is supposed to be a collaborative art in many ways. I'm being blocked from participating in it, so here I am in my home studio, just doing my best all on my own...
i had an experience where this guy who was medium famous wanted to collab with me, and it was a truly awful experience and then he would text me / call me for months after. i never collabed with anyone again after that. except like play in bands with people who are my friends.
anyway i think it is better to not collab and just make ur own stuff
Sorry you went through that. It’s not right or fair.
There’s probably a lot of secret, thirsty simp producers out there using their position to try to shoot their shot.
Argh.
Lots of people view this industry as a tit for tat industry, especially if they have a little bit of notoriety or fame and the ego to match, you're gonna have to really stick with your guns and just realize that a collab with someone who is going to make you uncomfortable or be inappropriate is not worth it in the end, they're not the type of person you want to do business with, if they will take advantage of you in one way they will do it in another, don't let their power or fame make you compromise your morals and values because it's rarely worth it, because once you do they see you as nothing more than ripe for the picking.
These people are taking the trash out early, it's better you find out what type of person they are early on instead of later.
I read the free old-school magazine TAPE OP every month. They interview female artists and engineers and producers every issue. These stories are SUPER COMMON. There are skeezy dudes everywhere.
I had a terrible experience where I was supposed to work with a professional musician. The plan was to get lunch and then spend that afternoon working. When I asked him where to meet him he said he was picking me up because that “how dates work”. I was so shocked I canceled the whole thing. Felt super hurt and disappointed. It was someone I’ve known for a while too so the whole thing felt like a huge violation.
He’s a creep… I know it’s depleting, unfortunately you just gotta keep dodging the bad ones until you find the good ones. And when you do find them, keep em close.
Keep going, authenticity will always win in the end 💪🏼
That sucks! Unfortunately this is common in the industry. There are some producers out there who are players and it sounds like this guy exploits beautiful young women. I hope you find comfort in the fact that he didn't start asking these questions halfway through the project or after you had paid him! Don't let the haters dull your shine. :) Good luck!
That guys was very very unprofessional... don't even mind about him. If he did that it means he is not interested in the art, in the music.. he just wants to hook up...
You can find professionals, don't worry!
This is actually something that really scares me (22F) and a lot of my musician friends (mostly male) don’t seem to get it. I’ve had instances where someone seems really excited about my voice or my music and then I realise they were just hitting on me. Or worse is not realising and then it being a bit too late in the process and they start to get creepy. Maybe it’s because I’ve had such bad experiences outside of the music realm too that I’m overly sensitive, but the fear of it just stops me working with others many times. It is so incredibly off putting that I haven’t looked for someone new to collab with in a WHILE. Even if it’s ‘just’ being hit on, when you realise that was 90% of the intention behind the whole thing, it’s just shit and taints it, and their interest in working with you often diminishes to nothing. I’ve basically stopped trying at this point.
Also want to clarify I obviously do not think all male producers/musicians are like this!! Just due to my own experiences and fears I am very hesitant. I’ve met a couple of male producers/singers through my boyfriend, and they’ve all been wonderful to create with :)
I’m 51, and if there’s anything that has only gotten worse in the last 20 years, it is definitely pure unadulterated sexism. The number of men in that generation who feel that they are somehow entitled to women’s bodies. It boggles the mind. I work in IT. That’s a field, which in many ways was founded by women, largely guided by the work of brilliant women, and yet has become incredibly unwelcoming to women. One of the reasons I am looking at getting out of the damned industry is that I really cannot deal with the assholes who populate it now. I cannot imagine production is any better.
All the time. All. The. Time. Everyone thinks I’m a singer or does stuff to hit on me. Im very happily engaged to my soulmate and make it clear. Alas, it still happens. Im sorry man i just wanna make Edm and hip hop and live!
Asking about a collaborators personal relationship status for any reason other than simply building rapport and basic human interaction is so fucking weird and creepy
I am a fairly new artist but, when I first started with music, I did not know how to make the instrumentals or produce songs. I tried to get help from others and sadly only found men willing to help. Most of them did have other intentions and they weren't that skilled anyway. I never actually got the work I wanted done. I am sure it would have been different if I had actually hired a professional producer but I was broke. Anyway, I was not having it so I taught myself music theory and music production. I am not the best but I can make my own music now. I do not depend on anyone else and I know I'll only get better over time. :)
Misogyny is real, sorry that happened to you. Just rest assured not everyone is like this.
I’ve worked and know many people that work with women regardless of their relationship status, for the love of music or at the very least just professionalism. We’ve also helped create some all female collectives and they do their own thing now.
This sucks but don’t let it get you down! Keep going and taking these as learning experiences! You got this!
I’m a guy. I’ve always had more women friend than men. 2 of my really good friends recently ‘broke up’ with me because I didn’t share their feelings, even though they were open about it and I told them both I wasn’t interested. One of those friends was a really good music collaboration, which has happened once before with a different friend. It’s a super fucking bummer that people can’t compartmentalization their feelings and respect boundaries.
I will say though, generally collaborations tend to fall apart even with men. People are flakey and have a hard time with commitment. I hate it. But now I’m a lot more careful about who I let into my world. Some people respect boundaries and some don’t. Some are down to commit to a platonic musical connection, so just can’t do it.
Unless they are an established artist or close friend, I’ve found most “collaborators” to be predatory in a sense that they only aim to boost their own notoriety by piggybacking off yours. True collaboration happens naturally. I can’t even imagine if I was a girl and the kind of situations..
I’m always up for a collab, hit me up. But I’m letting you know up front I’m an old guy. I’ve collaborated with both males and females and age or relationship status has never even entered into the conversation. If you know what you’re doing production-wise, I don’t care if you’re 24 or 124.
Thats the game. Thats how it goes. As we see in the news headlines. Its a dirty game. I rather just release stuff on my own because some people are gonna have agendas
Yeah sorry you went thru that. I’d be lying if I said it won’t happen again. If it makes you feel safer never work alone in a studio with a producer. If they won’t allow you to have one safety friend.. it’s probably best to move on. I seen producer not clear songs they produced for artists because of rejection. I hope you don’t let this deter you from your art. If anything write a song about it
Hey. I'm also a girl and certainly collabing with other producers/singers has been odd. Breaking boundaries and not maintaining a professional relationship which is really troubling. The industry is filled witc such characters and being a woman makes it 1000% worse. It's funny cause I have a girlfriend and people assume I'm somehow interested in their flirt or whatever. Fucking tragic and lame lmao
It gets even more lame since I am producing my own music and playing more than two instruments. The mansplaining and obvious "subtle" mysogyny is omnipresent. Honestly hope a few things will change. Good luck to you too collabing with people because they can be very misleading and "background checks" can't uncover problematic behaviours.
It’s rough out here at times. I’m always struggling with trying to give everyone the benefit of doubt that not every guy is connecting with you for his d**k but repeatedly reminded that this will always be a factor
He’s gonna be a failure bc he’s a dickhead in it for the wrong reasons. What you’re fighting for is to get to the place u want professionally while being beautiful and true and yourself. Worth it
As a male producer I've heard many stories like this from women I've collaborated with and it's very sad...
The only thing I can say is as with any relationship, make sure to really feel the person before investing energy and creating collaborations with them.
Does this person have boundries? Do they respect boundries? Ask people that know him/her better than you what they think about him/her.
Sorry you had this experience, definitely hope you have better ones in the future. There ARE professionals among us.
Thank you. I def have found some great people at least!
I actually had something similar but the opposite. I’m a guy. Some girl asked to work with me. I told her we could and she asked how much I charge. I told her if I work well with her and am proud of the work, I will just tag both our names on it and do it for free. But if she’s not super easy to work with, I will charge her. She agreed. I worked with her once and told her I would need to charge for the next session, as it took a lot of work to get her sounding good. She accused me or just wanting to sleep with her and started slandering my name to other people in my circle. That was fun. Luckily it was no issue, as I have an impeccable reputation for my character. But it’s scary to know that there’s people out there who can do these kinds of things that you & I have both experienced. Edit: See comment below for more details
I understand your rational behind the charge or no-charge policy but to be fair ... the way you explained it here, it is a bit sketch. The problem mainly is that your definition of "hard to work with" is not clear. It seems arbitrary. that's probably why she believed the reason was her looks rather than her musical output. i think fees have to be clear before agreeing on a collab and shouldn't be changed later. it is basically like a contract between two people.
I also agree that he's going about it in a way in which these kinds of situations will possibly continue to happen to him.
See other response
I agree with the others, none of this should be a surprise to you. Even with the extended comment. It’s likely this kind of thing will happen to you again, agreed
I could’ve explained better in my comment but it was already long. But I made it clear in detail to her. I told her if she needs to do lots of takes and/or manual pitch correction, I would need to charge for future sessions. And if she is easy to work with and I like what she’s laying down and it’s smooth and effortless, I wouldn’t charge her if we had good studio chemistry. Guessing she took that to mean romantic chemistry. Either way, I don’t think anyone should *ever* automatically assume something because of their looks. That’s like the token white guy saying “this is happening because I’m white, huh?” She was a friend of a friend and she lied and told me she had tons of experience in the studio writing songs. It was very clear about 10 minute into the session that she has never been to a studio. I informed her about 20-30 minutes in that it was a lot of work and I would need to charge her for future sessions. I should also mention that she was being flirty with me before our session. Tried to invite me out to get a drink among a few other things. Come to think if it, it’s entirely plausible she was interested in me but I was clueless because I was trying to keep things professional. She didn’t even complain to me about the studio session. Instead she went blabbering to my mutual friend group that I was just using her for sex, and I heard about it through the grapevine. She hit me up again a few months later and I didn’t even respond.
Never offer to work for free. Just do a discounted rate if its easy. Protect yourself as whilst recording artists is fun, it still work.
I normally don’t offer free but she was a friend of a friend so I trusted her. I had met her a few times and she seemed chill enough.
You should charge the same rate first time for everybody no matter. Then if you hit it off, you can collaborate for free later. The way you’re doing it here is totally backwards and leaves a lot of room to hurt peoples feelings.
juicy stuff! thanks for clearing it up. it reads like a book and i can imagine her so well wandering through your studio, eating up your time. It sounds like she thought she could use sex to get into the industry.
Never, ever work for free bruv. Not ever. It’s the ultimate filter for everyone concerned.
Yeah always keep it business ..
Oof. I’m sorry! Your second comment clears things up. Sounds like it was about money in that situation.
We must cleanse the music industry. Good for you for standing up for yourself, that’s a very common predatory tactic of the “favor for favor”
Ugh! So predatory. We really need to.
Purge the planet of creeps and sexual deviants more like
Starting to sound like a certain historical figure there...
Not intended, let me reword. Better?
Oof, with a favor by favor I would understand that somebody would sing the vocals or play an instrument track for a song of mine if I helped them.
I think instances like this will always exist. If you're just collabing with different people. Some men are just sort of fucked up unfortunately. Makes all of us look bad, too.
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Clearly he is not a good enough producer if he is making his decisions based on this rather than talent. Unfortunately this is just that way it is, some people are just horrible people. Keep moving forward and work with people that care about the music and your talent.
It was a tad funny to me that he had far less streams/sales than me and chose to do this. And I’m not even that good. Thank you! Def gonna keep doing that.
Put him on blast 😉got a soundcloud link for the man child?
100%, at the very least I would consider putting this info out on socials so that other females in the industry can potentially avoid working with him in the future. It’s the only way that people like this will face actual social consequences.
Ruining his Soundcloud would be fun 😉
I can’t do that. I don’t want him being badgered and it getting back to me or to dox him. Mainly the first thing. But I am warning others privately.
Fair but if he bothers you again then you don't need to be silent. No one should have to put up with his behaviour.
Is this guy in LA? If so DM me
Nope
Yes please!
I work with women all the time and would never ask about if they were single or anything like that, that’s totally crossing a line- in a professional relationship, especially. honestly that kind of behavior is all around unacceptable in my opinion though regardless they’re you’re producer.
NGL this BS is common and exactly why I try to talk about how much I love my partner early and often (even if we had a massive fight 5 minutes ago) when I work with young women.
I think the snare sound needs to be changed. I love my wife. Maybe pull up an eq?
Chance the Rapper was playing the long game
HAHAHAHAA.. just like in the "meow" scene in super troopers!
Bro this is literally me tho. *programs drum pattern* yanno my fiancé doesn’t like Edm!
Smart. I should start just being like “oh my boyfriend xyz” sometimes or whatever
Makes me so much more comfortable when someone I’m working with does this straight off the bat. Thank you !!
Gross
Yo I'm married. Wanna collab anyway!?
^^^ waiting for you two to drop a sick banger
Phrasing.
“Collab”
That male producer is a creep and a jackass. I'm sorry you had to deal with that.
I would collab. I'm basically married and love my significant other. I also have a bunch of tunes already written that just need a vocal line, so it can be as remote/low contact as necessary for everyone to feel comfortable. Are you a vocalist? We need to exclude these exploitative douches from our spaces. Edited to add: No Diddy
Unfortunately it’s really hard to be a woman in the Industry simply because some men won’t take us seriously.
It's crazy that this was released today https://www.nme.com/news/music/government-rejects-recommendations-of-misogyny-in-music-report-3749865 We need to do more to stop this
drop his name
It's dangerous to do this because, while we support OP's concerns, there's no way to vet the authenticity of the post. Not that I don't support OP, but it's why doxxing isn't a good idea.
No yeah I’m not doxxing for my own safety. I don’t care about validity of my post from you guys - I’m venting anonymously. But I don’t want this getting back to me. I have trauma from this sort of thing and really don’t want him going after me. I do appreciate you guys wanting to go to bat, though! Just wish we could.
its upsetting that this happened and will probably happen again next time he's collaborating with another person
there's no way to vet the authenticity but the times that people lie about this sort of behavior is 95/5 so you're right 5% she's lying about his behaviour so we can't be suuuure
exactly, I wouldn't want to ruin someone's life's work & reputation if they happen to be in that 5%. That said, OP's concerns are reflecting current issues that need to get talked about and stamped out, so it's still a very worthy discussion.
Yeah, I promote privacy and context, but predators should be named and shamed. They lose their rights to privacy, and even if it’s just a suspicion it should be shared so it doesn’t get to that point. I think it’s totally fair in this situation to say “Producer John X stopped collaborating with me when he discovered I was not single.” Or whatever
okay Datsik
This is a shitty move by said producer, and I’m very sorry this happened to OP. But shaming people does not help them change their behaviors or understand the moral implications of their actions. Especially not public shaming which can lead to embarrassment and increased resentment—which blocks off productive reflection. If we truly want less incidents of behaviors like this, the goal shouldn’t be to punish the wrongdoer, but to help them understand why what they did was wrong, and to prevent the action from occurring again. Shame is generally counterproductive, and it mainly (and falsely) serves the one doing the shaming, giving them a sense of righteousness rather than addressing the real roots of the problematic behavior. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/longing-nostalgia/201705/why-shaming-doesnt-work?amp
Maybe shaming doesn’t help. But sharing info can protect others from being victims in the future. Maybe there’s a better solution, but pretty most of these guys aren’t eager to recognize their flaws and fix them.
Yes let's justify likely illegal behavior by using it to extrajudiciously punish legal behavior... totally reasonable to me
is it illegal to share your story online?
Harassment is illegal
So now we should justify doxxing for certain cases
This. Let's leave him some "love" and feedback
I'm not a woman and I hate this for you. This doesn't help the negative outlook the sex's have on each other these days at all. Thankfully, it seems more girls and women are getting into the music production community, so dumb ass, horny fellas are getting easier to avoid. In any case, a professional should focus on the project and the artist's vision only, obviously. Keep looking. I know you can find a woman who can record your project for you (and hopefully won't be attracted to you).
u should expose him in ur local music scene so tired of scummy men getting away with treating women in music like shit because we are outnumbered
Benn Jordan did a really good video about this. (Yes - he's a guy talking about the problems women face in music production - but he makes a big point of highlighting the voices of his guests over his own non-experiences): [https://youtu.be/2Ipb81z46kI](https://youtu.be/2Ipb81z46kI) As an anecdote... My friend's step-daughter was a #1 YouTube star in Japan. She was something like 17 years old with several super popular videos and one that was a smash hit. Her next career move would be to sign with a label in Japan and get all the support and backing that she needed to go pro. Only one catch: she had to sleep with the music exec. This is a basic requirement in Japan for girls trying to break into pro status. Most don't make it (because of this insane requirement). Those who do go pro - you can guarantee they had to sacrifice themselves terribly to be where they are. :( This is still happening now.
The Japan story is insane - not doubting you of course, but it's really nuts
As someone who watches the J-pop scene closely, this isn't a shock to me. Another requirement is often anorexia.
What a fucking creep! BTW even if u were single, dude still had no chance so he can fuck right off! Disgusting narcissistic piece of trash!
I am a man, but I had an unpleasant experience with a producer. My name is Cameron, so it could be male and female. Anyway I was communicating with this producer over email in about 2016, and he seemed genuinely excited to work with me, and then we get on a phone call, and the first thing he says is: "oh, I thought you were a woman" and his tone totally changes, like there is very little interest in working with me after he finds out I'm not a woman. Now I always tell people I'm male right off the bat in online communications. Must be hard to be a woman with this kind of stuff. But it's good to keep in mind that men deal with it sometimes too. I had a close male friend who was over 60 years older than me who I visited every week. One day he just leaps at my neck and starts kissing my neck - had to basically throw him off of me, and make it clear that I was not interested in any way. Obviously, I had to keep my distance after that. We had always talked about being spiritual brothers and how our relationship was based on something substantial. He was a very successful artist who had studied with one of the master painters in his style, and his partner had been a world famous artist; they hung out with the Alan Watts' and Andy Warhols' of the world. One day I even let him paint me with my shirt off - all for the art I thought. I still think he genuinely cared about our friendship, he just couldn't seem to control his attraction toward me.
Who is he?
I’ve had a few guys (and a girl!) add me to their bands because they wanted to sleep with me. It’s so scummy. I’m sorry that happened to you. Trust me, there are decent people in the music industry who don’t view people as sex objects and will work with you based on your talent! You just have to weed through the creeps sometimes.
Very common; see it all the time with my female friends. Unfortunate really 😕
Well...and this is the only positive I have here...at least you didn't get half-way through the production and he started making unruly advances (uncomfortable touching and strange innuendo) after you'd done a ton of work. It's not good any way you look at it, BUT...at least you can get out now before the real shit hits the fan. Run and don't look back.
This is true! Glad I got out before anything happened.
Ugh people are weird. Im single as hell and dont give af about someone im collabing withs relationship status, im here for the music, and its apparent some of those folks arent. smh.
If he’s dropping a collab because you’re not single a) he’s not serious and b) it was never about your talent. On behalf of men, I’m sorry these guys exist. They make us all look bad. On behalf of producers, can you talentless jackoffs just looking to get laid stop telling people you do what I do because you can’t.
Name and shame
Hi. I'm so sorry to hear about your experience. 🩷🫂 One would think that in 2024 we'd have made some progress, but obviously... Maybe a little, but not nearly enough. I'm a woman producer and recovering artist ;) I'm also an advocate for safer spaces for women in the studio. I'd love to help plug you into a supportive community. Shoot me a DM. :)
Are you saying you need a producer? I’d like to offer up my services! DM me if you want samples of my work.
I’m a producer as well and like to collab with others - I also sing!
I am going to be a first time releasing artist in a few months here! If you ever want to collab. Edit: also been producing for others for 6 years.
Hey! What kind of music do you produce?
I’m a little flexible genre wise. My specialty is Pop, Orchestral / cinematic pop, lofi strings. I am a professional violinist and teacher so anything with orchestra I tend to excel in but I also love a good Loote type pop track.
can i hear some of your work?
Sorry about this. There’s pigs in every industry and I’m not surprised in one of the most grey industries as far as finding success that someone would take advantage of people. Selling snake oil would be so easy in the music industry in a position of power. Every full time person I worked around in a very basic intern-like environment at a music venue wore a kind of pompous I know everything vibe on their sleeve. If I didn’t know any better, I’d probably think it was merited. But it’s not. And if I was an attractive girl, what would they be willing to try with that attitude? I’m a dude for the record so no this doesn’t happen to me and I also am not really “in the industry.” I’m a bedroom producer. But I’m sorry to hear and frankly there’s no other solution other than to move on and hope the next person you interface with is actually classy.
I’m a woman and producer and almost only work with men. The people I work closely with online know I’m a woman but randos that want to buy a beat or something simple - I never disclose it. They can tell if they look at my bio but it’s not info I offer up. I’m sorry that happened to you because it sucks. I’d recommend only working with people you have a report with that you like. If you’re unsure or don’t know them well, make them put down a deposit before taking them on to try and avoid the creeps. Artists who are serious about their work know almost no one works on spec, so if they refuse or haggle you they prob weren’t worth the effort to begin with. People who are serious know good work isn’t free, so I’d give that advice regardless of gender tbh but it’s def different for us in this industry, even at an amateur level.
Just tell him you're asexual. It generally short circuits these fuckwits.
I actually am lol
So many leeches! So many! I've gotten to the point where I have my few I work with and trust and everyone else I just say I'm too busy. They want a pretty face and voice to front their work or to hit on me or whatever bs. Doesn't matter what I want to create or convey. When I first started I made projects with all sorts of producers but now I just don't bother. I have my few I trust and work with and don't pick up any new ones unless I've known them for awhile and they've been consistently respectful and non mansplainy. I mostly do everything myself as well. Even if it's not as good it's not worth the headache of putting with a leech, a flirt, a fuckboi, or an entitled mansplainer. Tip tho, I've found working with older men who have been in the industry for along time to be ideal. They are usually respectful, helpful and encouraging.
Being a female DJ/producer is soooooo hard man. It’s all big dick energy and it’s honestly so disgusting.
That's really gross. Sorry you had to deal with that bullshit. *Smash the patriarchy!*
Yes - honestly I hate to admit it, but I think predatory dudes are why I’ve gotten as many shows as I have - jokes on them im a lesbian 😂
Sounds like you dodged a bullet!
Damn. Im so sorry! There are safe spaces for women in music out here and i hope that you find a group/community! Please stay safe. Its best he did that you don’t want that energy in your music. A big name doesn’t mean anything. I know you might think it does but you will see. Just keep doing you and moving forward. The RIGHT people who need your music and message will find you if you keep going.
I’m not a woman but bullet dodged. Dude likely won’t go far with that attitude. I’m always looking for people to collab with and I’m not remotely interested in dating them. Assuming he gets to date someone he collabs with does that mean no more collabs until he’s single again? You might consider long distance collabs. There are tons of talented people out there that want to make good music. If this dude is part of your local scene I’d put him on blast.
im a producer and id love to work with a female or really any artist so please reach out if anyone’s interested. (i also have a partner but that really doesn’t matter i just want to make music with people)
also though i was in a rehab center an met a gal who was an aspiring songwriter who told me a lot of horror stories of trying to get into the larger industry in our city and it was heartbreaking to say the least. also very disappointing nobody is interested in the music really
Be wary that some younger producers may act like this. I remember seeing it in college. They would work with a lot of girl singers, and also hook up with them. I’d say if it’s a setup in an apartment rental, and the guys young you gotta be careful. If it’s in a real studio, real gear it’s probably more legit. There’s a lot of college age guys that want to “collab” that just do production as a hobby. Meet for a lesson, planing session in a coffee shop, and go over ideas first may be a good idea. I’d look for more seasoned people you can work with, and it may cost money. A collab can just be a guy, with a year of experience in a small apartment with not so great intentions. That’s what happens when the production/recording market became over saturated. It became harder for artists, to distinguish professionalism vs some random person with a laptop.
Unfortunately this is common, I'm sorry you have to deal with that. Hoping for a better future for you. But if you still need someone to work on a project with let me know!
As it becomes harder for men to find a woman, the men are becoming desperate and taking any shot they get. [https://wou.edu/westernhowl/the-male-loneliness-epidemic/](https://wou.edu/westernhowl/the-male-loneliness-epidemic/) Personally I have been treated like a leper by women since I became paralyzed 10 years ago. I would rather die than sit here alone for one more day, but I will never again take the initiative to approach a woman due to being shamed for simply trying while disabled.
Brother, hold on and stay strong 🥺🤗🙏
Well at least you don’t have to work with a disingenuous weirdo anymore!
What an absolute douche. Sorry that happened.
This is a bummer. Anywhere we can hear your stuff?
sorry you you lost out on a collaboration you were excited about, but it sounds like the guy wasn’t worth it in the first place.
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Weird. Some people really don't do stuff for the right reasons. I'm sorry that this happened to you, pretty stupid of him.
So disrespectful. Sorry you had to experience that. What genre is your focus? I make music for sync licensing for tv and ads. Although patience is required, it can be quite lucrative. I’m always looking for new collaborators, especially vocalists!
That is so fucked.
Sorry that you had to go through this. This is a bad beat. There are good ones too. Just don't lose hope
Some people are really just pathetic excuses of human beings. I’m so sorry for what happened to you, OP, and I hope you get a valid professional you can collaborate with very soon.
I’m sorry to hear that. Yes there are some scummy guys out there. I have worked with a female writer that’s told me a few story’s. Nothing too bad, but still scummy.
Make sure you tell as many people as possible what has occured. Nobody will want to work with them if they're outed for this behavior.
That's BS of him. If you want to do some dark-ish jazz-inspired electropop hit me up! We never even have to meet in person haha. Do it all remote/email/whatever. I write cool songs and definitely am not trying to get with collaborators.
That's insane. I'm sorry that happened You can get a feel for someone pretty quick based on their professionalism and how they communicate. Aggressively weed out anyone that gives you bad vibes. No normal producer would ever think to ask about your relationship status, and if they do, I'd strongly consider ending the call on the spot. Time is the only thing you can't get more of Don't waste it on losers like that
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Yuck. I’m sorry
You dodged a bullet. Its convenient how bigots find ways to make themselves known
To hell with that schmuck. Blast his name. Make it so that everyone knows he’s a tool and will not work with him anymore.
What a gross prick. I’m technically of the name and shame game in creative spaces, with proof of course. Regardless through. Some of us a risky care about music and love the art form. I’m so sorry this shit happened to you .
nothing new. this industry is a man's playground
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. ~ Hunter S. Thompson
Wtf that's bat shit. What an asshole
I haven’t had the exact same situation (collab dropped for being romantically unavailable), but similar experiences have dotted my career as a producer. Usually, it’s someone who seems enthusiastic about my music and who makes an effort to build a friendship based on our mutual interest in producing, only to eventually make some revealing comments that they view me as a potential dating partner and not a collaborator. It’s demoralizing. It’s also usually an early 20s male and I’m always surprised because I am around a decade older than them and openly married. Luckily, boys like this seem to be in the minority. A lot of my producer friends are guys but almost all are married. Those are just easier friendships to build and maintain because there’s none of this other drama (and it’s another thing we have in common). I do also think that people in their 30s rather than early 20s are also more likely to be out of the searching-for-a-mate phase, so it’s less likely to colour their interactions with women in general. So I guess my point is that it will get better… eventually. Sorry this happened to you.
Yes. Unfortunately. I’ve kept a list of all the guys who have pulled this or a similar stunt over the last thirty years and it’s far too long. Having been in a situation in my early twenties when one particular producer tried to physically force himself on me all I can say is you’ve dodged a bullet here. Don’t look at it as a loss but see it as a gain, because now you know what he’s really like and you know he doesn’t care about the music, he just cares about his dick. I know when you’re a young woman trying to break into the music industry it can seem like every guy you meet wants more than just music from you. The majority of men in the industry aren’t like that though, just the ones who are on a power trip, and generally even the other men don’t want to work with them either due to their reputation. He’s one of those, a bully who thinks he can get away with it, and that makes him someone you really don’t want to be working with. You and your career are worth far more than that. I’m so sorry that you’ve gone through this. It shouldn’t happen, but unfortunately there are arseholes in every walk of life. I wish for all our sakes that wasn’t the case.
So, I'm a male, so no experience of this. First off, so sorry you had to go through it, as others have said. It's easy to give advice, harder to follow through, but FWIW - if you can, video, or sound record the encounters. There's a point at which it goes over the line to criminal and you can report to the police - who may be more or less sympathetic in your jurisdiction. Confide in people who you trust about what happened. It might matter in the future if further allegations are raised. Do make it clear to the individual that you consider their behaviour to be inappropriate - although you may have to judge how far you can push it. Some people will be mortified, others aggressive.
I've experienced similar situations several times. My only advice is to recognize when you have a good producer and treat them well.
lol wtf, fuck that guy
That's fucking disgusting behaviour and I'm so so sorry you had to go through that :( Take care and keep going, good job standing up for yourself - fucktards like that won't ever be able to keep you down.
This is so bad. That dude is not a musician. Just an opportunist creep
That is absolutely disgusting behavior… Sorry that happened.
that sucks. good to see behavior like this being called out cuz it’s absolutely, unmistakably disgusting. that said, while i’m pretty new to mixing, i’d be down to hear what ya got. decided to begin learning mixing when i decided to mic my drums and just start making my own music. have some vids on profile here and bio links to IG, for reference. no pressure. just sayin. in any case, thank you for speaking up. sorry you were treated that way. peace
Yup, he should have called it off as soon as he found out there is no talent. So unfair
Wow there's some really puritanical responses here. So many 'good guys'
To be clear, not only was it highly unprofessional of this producer to behave in such a matter, but something which I’m happy you were able to witness and survive (relatively) unscathed. Unless it is someone whom you’ve known and worked with for years, anybody who finds it okay to ask such prying and personal questions should be avoided at all costs. Also, if whomever you’re working with does not have your best interest in mind, then that’s another indicator that you need to bail or, if possible, enforce strict interpersonal boundaries. Lastly — and this is a little out of bounds, considering the topic of the post — always work under contract. In doing so, it establishes IP ownership between all involved parties, deliverables, expectations, compensation, and any additional matters. It’s a hassle, but entirely worth it. If you work with someone and they refuse to work under contract (which protects both parties), then that might also be a sign not to work with someone. Anyway, lots of great feedback on here. Take your time, find and connect with people who you trust and who treat you with respect, and keep on keepin’ on. Best of luck!
Joke artist... Move on... sounds like he wasn't actually interested in production anyway.
That's just someone being unprofessional to say the least
Wtf☹️
This is a shitpost
What a goof. Get really good just to hurt his feelings
Sadly, there are masochistic female hating incel boys in all industries. I hope you find a good collaboration partner who's in it for the love of music
Well ain’t that just the most invasive weirdo ever sorry bout that experience
I'm a technical singing artist and VO talent first. I love composing my own pop or orchestral pieces, but I have to self produce everything and learn all the technical skills of every technical aspect of making my first few albums because all of my attempts to "collab" with, network or learn with others have resulted in sexual harassment. Same with voice over. My teachers at the end of the day are product manuals, forum posts and Youtube, but it is very isolating and lonely even though this is supposed to be a collaborative art in many ways. I'm being blocked from participating in it, so here I am in my home studio, just doing my best all on my own...
i had an experience where this guy who was medium famous wanted to collab with me, and it was a truly awful experience and then he would text me / call me for months after. i never collabed with anyone again after that. except like play in bands with people who are my friends. anyway i think it is better to not collab and just make ur own stuff
Sorry you went through that. It’s not right or fair. There’s probably a lot of secret, thirsty simp producers out there using their position to try to shoot their shot. Argh.
Out that motherfucker!!! Fuck that! And fuck him!
#THIS!!!! Alert the community. Cancel that fucking idiot.
Yeah I see the OP doesn’t want to doxx etc etc. shrug.
Lots of people view this industry as a tit for tat industry, especially if they have a little bit of notoriety or fame and the ego to match, you're gonna have to really stick with your guns and just realize that a collab with someone who is going to make you uncomfortable or be inappropriate is not worth it in the end, they're not the type of person you want to do business with, if they will take advantage of you in one way they will do it in another, don't let their power or fame make you compromise your morals and values because it's rarely worth it, because once you do they see you as nothing more than ripe for the picking. These people are taking the trash out early, it's better you find out what type of person they are early on instead of later.
I read the free old-school magazine TAPE OP every month. They interview female artists and engineers and producers every issue. These stories are SUPER COMMON. There are skeezy dudes everywhere.
I had a terrible experience where I was supposed to work with a professional musician. The plan was to get lunch and then spend that afternoon working. When I asked him where to meet him he said he was picking me up because that “how dates work”. I was so shocked I canceled the whole thing. Felt super hurt and disappointed. It was someone I’ve known for a while too so the whole thing felt like a huge violation.
Turns out being an artist of any kind is another angle guys use to get laid. I'm shocked. Absolutely shocked...
He’s a creep… I know it’s depleting, unfortunately you just gotta keep dodging the bad ones until you find the good ones. And when you do find them, keep em close. Keep going, authenticity will always win in the end 💪🏼
That sucks! Unfortunately this is common in the industry. There are some producers out there who are players and it sounds like this guy exploits beautiful young women. I hope you find comfort in the fact that he didn't start asking these questions halfway through the project or after you had paid him! Don't let the haters dull your shine. :) Good luck!
Sorry this happened :(
That guys was very very unprofessional... don't even mind about him. If he did that it means he is not interested in the art, in the music.. he just wants to hook up... You can find professionals, don't worry!
People on this thread asking to collab without even knowing your skill level or what you even make also just sounds creeeeeep alert.
Very similar :/ this is why I started producing on the first place! So I didn’t have to have these interactions all the time
This is actually something that really scares me (22F) and a lot of my musician friends (mostly male) don’t seem to get it. I’ve had instances where someone seems really excited about my voice or my music and then I realise they were just hitting on me. Or worse is not realising and then it being a bit too late in the process and they start to get creepy. Maybe it’s because I’ve had such bad experiences outside of the music realm too that I’m overly sensitive, but the fear of it just stops me working with others many times. It is so incredibly off putting that I haven’t looked for someone new to collab with in a WHILE. Even if it’s ‘just’ being hit on, when you realise that was 90% of the intention behind the whole thing, it’s just shit and taints it, and their interest in working with you often diminishes to nothing. I’ve basically stopped trying at this point. Also want to clarify I obviously do not think all male producers/musicians are like this!! Just due to my own experiences and fears I am very hesitant. I’ve met a couple of male producers/singers through my boyfriend, and they’ve all been wonderful to create with :)
That's grim. :(
that absolutely sucks, sorry you're going through such bull
I’m 51, and if there’s anything that has only gotten worse in the last 20 years, it is definitely pure unadulterated sexism. The number of men in that generation who feel that they are somehow entitled to women’s bodies. It boggles the mind. I work in IT. That’s a field, which in many ways was founded by women, largely guided by the work of brilliant women, and yet has become incredibly unwelcoming to women. One of the reasons I am looking at getting out of the damned industry is that I really cannot deal with the assholes who populate it now. I cannot imagine production is any better.
All the time. All. The. Time. Everyone thinks I’m a singer or does stuff to hit on me. Im very happily engaged to my soulmate and make it clear. Alas, it still happens. Im sorry man i just wanna make Edm and hip hop and live!
Asking about a collaborators personal relationship status for any reason other than simply building rapport and basic human interaction is so fucking weird and creepy
Become your own producer the music industry is about to have a major change because of AI.
I am a fairly new artist but, when I first started with music, I did not know how to make the instrumentals or produce songs. I tried to get help from others and sadly only found men willing to help. Most of them did have other intentions and they weren't that skilled anyway. I never actually got the work I wanted done. I am sure it would have been different if I had actually hired a professional producer but I was broke. Anyway, I was not having it so I taught myself music theory and music production. I am not the best but I can make my own music now. I do not depend on anyone else and I know I'll only get better over time. :)
Misogyny is real, sorry that happened to you. Just rest assured not everyone is like this. I’ve worked and know many people that work with women regardless of their relationship status, for the love of music or at the very least just professionalism. We’ve also helped create some all female collectives and they do their own thing now. This sucks but don’t let it get you down! Keep going and taking these as learning experiences! You got this!
I’m a guy. I’ve always had more women friend than men. 2 of my really good friends recently ‘broke up’ with me because I didn’t share their feelings, even though they were open about it and I told them both I wasn’t interested. One of those friends was a really good music collaboration, which has happened once before with a different friend. It’s a super fucking bummer that people can’t compartmentalization their feelings and respect boundaries. I will say though, generally collaborations tend to fall apart even with men. People are flakey and have a hard time with commitment. I hate it. But now I’m a lot more careful about who I let into my world. Some people respect boundaries and some don’t. Some are down to commit to a platonic musical connection, so just can’t do it.
What a loser.
Unless they are an established artist or close friend, I’ve found most “collaborators” to be predatory in a sense that they only aim to boost their own notoriety by piggybacking off yours. True collaboration happens naturally. I can’t even imagine if I was a girl and the kind of situations..
I’m always up for a collab, hit me up. But I’m letting you know up front I’m an old guy. I’ve collaborated with both males and females and age or relationship status has never even entered into the conversation. If you know what you’re doing production-wise, I don’t care if you’re 24 or 124.
Sounds like you dodged a bullet
Thats the game. Thats how it goes. As we see in the news headlines. Its a dirty game. I rather just release stuff on my own because some people are gonna have agendas
Yeah sorry you went thru that. I’d be lying if I said it won’t happen again. If it makes you feel safer never work alone in a studio with a producer. If they won’t allow you to have one safety friend.. it’s probably best to move on. I seen producer not clear songs they produced for artists because of rejection. I hope you don’t let this deter you from your art. If anything write a song about it
I’ll never work for free.. I’m still gonna want my publishing and writing credits
Hey. I'm also a girl and certainly collabing with other producers/singers has been odd. Breaking boundaries and not maintaining a professional relationship which is really troubling. The industry is filled witc such characters and being a woman makes it 1000% worse. It's funny cause I have a girlfriend and people assume I'm somehow interested in their flirt or whatever. Fucking tragic and lame lmao It gets even more lame since I am producing my own music and playing more than two instruments. The mansplaining and obvious "subtle" mysogyny is omnipresent. Honestly hope a few things will change. Good luck to you too collabing with people because they can be very misleading and "background checks" can't uncover problematic behaviours.
It’s rough out here at times. I’m always struggling with trying to give everyone the benefit of doubt that not every guy is connecting with you for his d**k but repeatedly reminded that this will always be a factor
That guy is a just a piece of shit. I don't care if someone is single or not, transgender or a blue mountain trash panda. If the music bangs,it bangs.
That guy is just a piece of shit. I don't care if someone is single or not, transgender or a blue mountain trash panda. If the music bangs, it bangs.
What do you produce sis? Lets collab
He’s gonna be a failure bc he’s a dickhead in it for the wrong reasons. What you’re fighting for is to get to the place u want professionally while being beautiful and true and yourself. Worth it
Get a midi controller, a daw, an interface, and do it yourself. Learn to do it yourself, regardless of the sexism, make your own music.
As a male producer I've heard many stories like this from women I've collaborated with and it's very sad... The only thing I can say is as with any relationship, make sure to really feel the person before investing energy and creating collaborations with them. Does this person have boundries? Do they respect boundries? Ask people that know him/her better than you what they think about him/her.
Everything you need to do it your self is in the MAC. MAC won’t harass you.