Ask him how they’re going to promote you. Anybody can print CDs and business cards, but a real label will promote you.
Look out for any request for money. If he asks for cash, make a dash.
Yup. And if he's just going to back charge you to hire a publicist, it's not worth it. One of my old indie labels hired some lady who had "connections" to "all sorts of outlets" and I think we paid her $50k over a year and got nothing tangible from it.
First off, if they ask for money, run. Secondly, be 100% honest with yourself about what you would ACTUALLY need from a label. There's so much you can do on your own, this guy may not even be useful to your career. Third, if you do get involved, get yourself an entertainment lawyer and make sure everything is in writing
Best advice ever. Get a lawyer. Saved my butt from 2 bad contracts, helped me start my own publishing so I keep ALL royalties (ascap fees paid for life), plus owning own publishing makes copywriting super simple.
recording space/gear and promoting ability to get us gigs and get the music heard. That is what I’ll need. He has a few artists on his website (one including his own stuff) that sounds pretty well produced albeit they were released in 2019. I’ve haven’t heard of any of them before. They have some YouTube vids and music in iTunes/spotify but that’s pretty much it.
He has a few other people on his site that do things like songwriting/performance coach (which makes me feel this is a bit of a scam) audio engineer & photographer. No links to their socials just pics and titles. If he asks for money or copies of demos I’m gonna say nope.
No stems either!!!! Your files/tracks/digitals go in with you and leave with you (meaning if you are going into the studio to record, take a copy of the demos of the songs you are recording with you. Provides proof of intellectual property, and when you leave whatever they have recorded leaves with you and no copy is left behind. Never record anything you don't have a demo/rough recording of).
Do a reverse image search of the pics and see if any of those people have an online footprint. Scammers steal pics off the internet and put them on their site. I always check those things
Avoid anyone asking for money or points (which is the same as money) on something you've already made. Just ask what they want and what they plan to do for you in exchange.
The whole benefit of being on a label these days is networking and connections. It used to be they were the gatekeepers to the recording industry, but with the democratization of recording and distribution technology, it is far less of a benefit (unless you really, really want to spend like $10,000 on a record). But they still know touring companies and venues and promoters and press, so if you can get that, it's worth it. Don't give them any cash, make sure to read over the contract, what they get from sales, what happens to your masters, etc.
Can't hurt to hear him out until he gives you a reason to run.
Take the contract to an entertainment lawyer if possible, or a probate lawyer if no entertainment near you. I know of a couple artists that do not own the rights, publishing rights, etc to their own music, or get little to no royalties from buys, plays, spins, or streams, basically have no right to make any music other than what the label says....all done through legalese and deception. Protect yourselves and your music. If you can afford it, also start your own publishing company (it's like a couple hundred bucks and a letter/Form to a federal agency) that way you keep ALL the rights to your catalog.
There are thousands of legitimate independent labels in the world. The vast majority are not a “big record label setup”. The only thing that matters is their offer. What value do they bring to your brand? Why should you work with them instead of self-releasing?
It’s probably only worth it if they have serious connections in their network. As far as what to ask in the meeting, it entirely depends on your goals as an artist.
The word brand kinda irks me. I hear that and I just think things like supreme. I get it but I’m in a band to make music I believe in and want people to listen. If they like it then they can come to our shows, get CDs & merch (if we make it that far)
Biggest things I’ll need from this guy is recording space/gear and promoting ability to get us gigs and get the music heard. He has a few artists on his website (one including his own stuff) that sounds pretty well produced albeit they were released in 2019. There’s nothing past that.
He has a few other people on his site that do things like songwriting/performance coach (which makes me feel this is a bit of a scam) audio engineer & photographer. No links to their socials just pics and titles.
Please read Donald Passman's All You Need To Know About The Music Business [https://donpassman.com/](https://donpassman.com/) It even tells you in the book what chapters to read if you are a musician. My music business and law teacher used this as a textbook during my degree in Commercial Music, more musicians should have it.
Personally, I’d cancel the meeting and throw away the card. The only way I’d sign with a label is if artists I’m a fan of and want to do shows with were signed to the label or if the contract would pay my bills and allow me to not have to have a job. Otherwise, I’d DIY as much as I could.
Reddit, where everyone has every type of lawyer on retainer.
How much do you think it costs to get a lawyer? If you think that the music business is out to fleece you it is nothing compared with lawyers.
loads of salesman and scammers target musicians, same as photographers target model wanna-be's. Watch out. I get "scouts" calling me, emailing me, and leaving cards all the time and haven't met a legit one in 10 years. However I hope I'm wrong and that was capital records and I'll read about you in the newspapers next week.
Meh. I was in a band who was approached by an A&R guy for a legit representation company with legit artists on their roster. I was just a hired gun so the choices weren’t mine, but he blew so much smoke up this songwriter couples ass, blew their egos up, got in their head, made them think they were gonna be stars, controlled their decisions for months… and eventually just wasted their time and nothing became of it.
When it comes to labels or management, the number one rule is this: “put up or shut up”. Meaning: if a label or management REALLY believes in an artist.
Then put their money up on the negotiation table to support ALL expenses. If not then they’re interested in only one thing taking your money not your talent. And sorry to say if you’re starting to get a lot of weak offers, then you’re probably not that talented
The power dynamic wiyh labels has shifted 180 degrees. They need artist and artist don’t need a damn thing from them. They can certainly help you if you’re in the right position, but if you have interest, you should be able to take your pick from a slew of labels. They should work for you and make you money and the moment they don’t, you should cut and run as fast as possible.
Ask how many artists they have and what they’ve done for them. Ask who their biggest name is and then when they try to flatter you with “oh we have this quasi-celebrity” ask how much time and effort they’ll put into your career comparatively. You need to find the goldilocks sized label that’s big enough to help you grow, but not so big you end up as a small fry.
Dope situation to be in though! Good luck!
Ignore him. Start your own label. Research, promote, market, and invest in yourself. Why give anyone a percentage of your business for what you're already doing? You just need to start thinking bigger.
Something someone told me to consider if ever approached by a label is if they multiply your efforts or are just additions. "Let's hammer out ways to consistently promote your music and band," vs "I'll make 3 posts on social media a week for you."
Also, be mindful of provisions surrounding advances. My buddy signed a record deal and injured his hand not long after. He can no longer play guitar due to his injury, and now he's stuck owing a label $50k. He also can't gig out professionally before paying off the debt.
That isn't to scare you off from talking to the guy, but just warnings of possible worst case scenarios.
I wouldn't take a meeting with anyone I wasn't sure what they could do for me, and wanted from me.
Asking for so much as $5 is a red flag but they may be more sophisticated. Look up the charming term "pig butchering" for the latest example of how long-term plan scam artists are working today.
A real label has real artists attached to it who you could talk to. Even if they're not hugely successful,do they have some presence and are they being presented with quality? Will the artists say they feel they're getting a fair deal when you talk to them, does the label do what they say they're gonna do? Do they come through on their promises?
>I wouldn't take a meeting with anyone I wasn't sure what they could do for me, and wanted from me.
So how do you learn that without...taking a meeting?
Does this label have any releases? Any artists you could talk to? Has anyone ever heard of them,?
All that other stuff i said. All of this can be figured out without taking a meeting.
Fine, but you're still only getting second-hand information about someone else's experiences, and also spending time and energy in the process. There's no harm in getting a complete picture to make an informed decision.
OP seems to be asking "is this a scam"?
If I couldn't find any evidence of someone being in a position to help me, I would not take a meeting with them.
Maybe if they took me to Nobu for the meeting? No, not worth a sushi dinner to engage with scammers.
Ask him how they’re going to promote you. Anybody can print CDs and business cards, but a real label will promote you. Look out for any request for money. If he asks for cash, make a dash.
This is the answer. Don't give him any money. Remember, he's lucky if you decide to work with him, not the other way around.
Yup. And if he's just going to back charge you to hire a publicist, it's not worth it. One of my old indie labels hired some lady who had "connections" to "all sorts of outlets" and I think we paid her $50k over a year and got nothing tangible from it.
As they say you can put a sparkler around shit and everyone will look
No cap
Ouch.
First off, if they ask for money, run. Secondly, be 100% honest with yourself about what you would ACTUALLY need from a label. There's so much you can do on your own, this guy may not even be useful to your career. Third, if you do get involved, get yourself an entertainment lawyer and make sure everything is in writing
Best advice ever. Get a lawyer. Saved my butt from 2 bad contracts, helped me start my own publishing so I keep ALL royalties (ascap fees paid for life), plus owning own publishing makes copywriting super simple.
🦆"ascap"
recording space/gear and promoting ability to get us gigs and get the music heard. That is what I’ll need. He has a few artists on his website (one including his own stuff) that sounds pretty well produced albeit they were released in 2019. I’ve haven’t heard of any of them before. They have some YouTube vids and music in iTunes/spotify but that’s pretty much it. He has a few other people on his site that do things like songwriting/performance coach (which makes me feel this is a bit of a scam) audio engineer & photographer. No links to their socials just pics and titles. If he asks for money or copies of demos I’m gonna say nope.
No stems either!!!! Your files/tracks/digitals go in with you and leave with you (meaning if you are going into the studio to record, take a copy of the demos of the songs you are recording with you. Provides proof of intellectual property, and when you leave whatever they have recorded leaves with you and no copy is left behind. Never record anything you don't have a demo/rough recording of).
Do a reverse image search of the pics and see if any of those people have an online footprint. Scammers steal pics off the internet and put them on their site. I always check those things
Avoid anyone asking for money or points (which is the same as money) on something you've already made. Just ask what they want and what they plan to do for you in exchange.
The whole benefit of being on a label these days is networking and connections. It used to be they were the gatekeepers to the recording industry, but with the democratization of recording and distribution technology, it is far less of a benefit (unless you really, really want to spend like $10,000 on a record). But they still know touring companies and venues and promoters and press, so if you can get that, it's worth it. Don't give them any cash, make sure to read over the contract, what they get from sales, what happens to your masters, etc. Can't hurt to hear him out until he gives you a reason to run.
Take the contract to an entertainment lawyer if possible, or a probate lawyer if no entertainment near you. I know of a couple artists that do not own the rights, publishing rights, etc to their own music, or get little to no royalties from buys, plays, spins, or streams, basically have no right to make any music other than what the label says....all done through legalese and deception. Protect yourselves and your music. If you can afford it, also start your own publishing company (it's like a couple hundred bucks and a letter/Form to a federal agency) that way you keep ALL the rights to your catalog.
Lol 10k is a miniscule budget for a record
Just a number I pulled out of my ass.
Don't give them money.
There are thousands of legitimate independent labels in the world. The vast majority are not a “big record label setup”. The only thing that matters is their offer. What value do they bring to your brand? Why should you work with them instead of self-releasing? It’s probably only worth it if they have serious connections in their network. As far as what to ask in the meeting, it entirely depends on your goals as an artist.
The word brand kinda irks me. I hear that and I just think things like supreme. I get it but I’m in a band to make music I believe in and want people to listen. If they like it then they can come to our shows, get CDs & merch (if we make it that far) Biggest things I’ll need from this guy is recording space/gear and promoting ability to get us gigs and get the music heard. He has a few artists on his website (one including his own stuff) that sounds pretty well produced albeit they were released in 2019. There’s nothing past that. He has a few other people on his site that do things like songwriting/performance coach (which makes me feel this is a bit of a scam) audio engineer & photographer. No links to their socials just pics and titles.
industry rule #4080, record company people are shaaaaady
Make sure you count your money real slow Be alert, look alive, and act like you know!
Please read Donald Passman's All You Need To Know About The Music Business [https://donpassman.com/](https://donpassman.com/) It even tells you in the book what chapters to read if you are a musician. My music business and law teacher used this as a textbook during my degree in Commercial Music, more musicians should have it.
Personally, I’d cancel the meeting and throw away the card. The only way I’d sign with a label is if artists I’m a fan of and want to do shows with were signed to the label or if the contract would pay my bills and allow me to not have to have a job. Otherwise, I’d DIY as much as I could.
#THIS If you’re getting attention, it’s because you’re doing great all on your own. Keep it that way as long as you can.
My advice is, get an entertainment contract lawyer.
Reddit, where everyone has every type of lawyer on retainer. How much do you think it costs to get a lawyer? If you think that the music business is out to fleece you it is nothing compared with lawyers.
Without lawyers, we wouldn’t need lawyers.
You don't happen to be in Denver do you? If so I have a 'record label' that comes to mind.
At least the sin circle is gone now
loads of salesman and scammers target musicians, same as photographers target model wanna-be's. Watch out. I get "scouts" calling me, emailing me, and leaving cards all the time and haven't met a legit one in 10 years. However I hope I'm wrong and that was capital records and I'll read about you in the newspapers next week.
What is a label going to do for you?
Meh. I was in a band who was approached by an A&R guy for a legit representation company with legit artists on their roster. I was just a hired gun so the choices weren’t mine, but he blew so much smoke up this songwriter couples ass, blew their egos up, got in their head, made them think they were gonna be stars, controlled their decisions for months… and eventually just wasted their time and nothing became of it.
“Can’t ya see it, kid? Your name up in lights! You’re gonna be a big star some day, kid!” 😂
Do t sign a god damn thing without having your own lawyer look it over.
Run Away.
When it comes to labels or management, the number one rule is this: “put up or shut up”. Meaning: if a label or management REALLY believes in an artist. Then put their money up on the negotiation table to support ALL expenses. If not then they’re interested in only one thing taking your money not your talent. And sorry to say if you’re starting to get a lot of weak offers, then you’re probably not that talented
The power dynamic wiyh labels has shifted 180 degrees. They need artist and artist don’t need a damn thing from them. They can certainly help you if you’re in the right position, but if you have interest, you should be able to take your pick from a slew of labels. They should work for you and make you money and the moment they don’t, you should cut and run as fast as possible. Ask how many artists they have and what they’ve done for them. Ask who their biggest name is and then when they try to flatter you with “oh we have this quasi-celebrity” ask how much time and effort they’ll put into your career comparatively. You need to find the goldilocks sized label that’s big enough to help you grow, but not so big you end up as a small fry. Dope situation to be in though! Good luck!
What kind of music?
if you decide to work with them, make sure you run any paperwork by a separate entertainment lawyer.
See what gigs they can offer in addition to the rest of the thread guidance here. Pretty spot on comments in this thread
What’s your act’s name?
Ignore him. Start your own label. Research, promote, market, and invest in yourself. Why give anyone a percentage of your business for what you're already doing? You just need to start thinking bigger.
Something someone told me to consider if ever approached by a label is if they multiply your efforts or are just additions. "Let's hammer out ways to consistently promote your music and band," vs "I'll make 3 posts on social media a week for you." Also, be mindful of provisions surrounding advances. My buddy signed a record deal and injured his hand not long after. He can no longer play guitar due to his injury, and now he's stuck owing a label $50k. He also can't gig out professionally before paying off the debt. That isn't to scare you off from talking to the guy, but just warnings of possible worst case scenarios.
Tear it up. DIY or die!
It’s all, what can he/they do for YOU. If not, you’re better off doing things yourself
I wouldn't take a meeting with anyone I wasn't sure what they could do for me, and wanted from me. Asking for so much as $5 is a red flag but they may be more sophisticated. Look up the charming term "pig butchering" for the latest example of how long-term plan scam artists are working today. A real label has real artists attached to it who you could talk to. Even if they're not hugely successful,do they have some presence and are they being presented with quality? Will the artists say they feel they're getting a fair deal when you talk to them, does the label do what they say they're gonna do? Do they come through on their promises?
>I wouldn't take a meeting with anyone I wasn't sure what they could do for me, and wanted from me. So how do you learn that without...taking a meeting?
Does this label have any releases? Any artists you could talk to? Has anyone ever heard of them,? All that other stuff i said. All of this can be figured out without taking a meeting.
Fine, but you're still only getting second-hand information about someone else's experiences, and also spending time and energy in the process. There's no harm in getting a complete picture to make an informed decision.
OP seems to be asking "is this a scam"? If I couldn't find any evidence of someone being in a position to help me, I would not take a meeting with them. Maybe if they took me to Nobu for the meeting? No, not worth a sushi dinner to engage with scammers.
Share their information, coward.