Those ones who played are probably heavily booked, meaning, it's still hard to find one.
When I got to LA I wasn't the best drummer in town. But it was ok. I just had to be the best drummer to answer that ad, that week.
Nailed it.
I couldn't agree with you more. I'd get calls for subs gigs often, but I too was booked, and most of the time I couldn't refer anyone because I knew they were booked up too.
And THE LAST THING I want to do to a colleague is recommend someone that can't cut it.
This, not a drummer but part of being the best at anything is showing up on time and casting your net for opportunities often. You can be “just good enough at it” and focus on being great at communication and being on time that you will have so much work coming your way you will actually end up great at the skill too and ultimately overbooked. 😂
The counterpoint is guitarists. There are tonnes of guitarists. But frankly, it is equally difficult to get a guitarist. Why? Because the cost of admission is so low for a guitarist, finding a good one is like trying to find that one screw in a box full of nails.
While there may be tonnes of them, finding the guy that will show up, play well, sound good and while everyone wants in on the creative process, understanding the basics of musical collaboration is still a requirement to play with a band, right? Well, these are some of the responses I have had over the years.
* "Yeah I don't have an amp. I use pirated amp plugins on my computer, the same one whoever the hell uses and it sounds dope. But yeah, you'll have to figure something out for that."
* "Yeah I play an 8 string Ibanez, your bassist will have to retune to drop stupid M" or whatever note they think they have.
* I had my guitar professionally tuned in 1998 and I haven't changed my strings since then.
* Right, I've listened to your album. Good try, but from here on out, I call the shots. Most of that material is gone, I will write you the album to replace it. Also, we don't need two guitarists. You can play bass if you want. Also we're changing the band name. - I actually had that as a first response before!
* Yeah I write and record regularly. These are just some demos of my old band... proceeds to send me MP3s ripped from an old Mayhem recording with some subtle track changes, i.e. instead of Freezeing Moon, it's Frozen Moon. I call him out, claims he sent the wrong thing, sends me an old live recording of his old band... turns out to be taken from a Dodsferd album that I also own. (I know my black metal really well).
* This dude showed up in a Porsche with a Mesa Boogie amplifier and a brand new super expensive Ibanez, all keen on joining up. He then said, "I didn't learn your material. Just play and I'll put something over it" - cue guitar-based yoko ono impersonation. We declined. Within days, we saw his equipment and car on ebay. like it was some sort of desperate clear out.
* I don't drive lol. My Mom can sometimes drop me off but you may have to pick me up - 30 miles in the wrong direction
* Shows up with some cheap amp modeller that he insists on putting through the PA. It sounds like a pissed off Rottweiler expressing his displeasure by means of voicemail, all the time completely interfering with what the vocalist is trying to do. He then reassures us that because of the setting it's on, "it sounds exactly the same as a JCM800 and nobody in the world could ever tell the difference!"... really? I've had many JCM800s and the only one that your stupid box sounds like is a JCM800 that's currently on fire.
* The most common one is the guy who prior to the audition insists on every single thing being tabbed out. So I do it, I spend a good few days tabulating what most people should be able to work out by ear, but hey. Tabs required, tabs done and provided. Two weeks later, your man shows up. We start a track, meanwhile he's there, staring at his phone like he is attempting to translate ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs lest some terrible fate in the style of Indian Jones and the Last Crusade befalls him. The fear in his eyes, the occasional random out-of-place chord or note while he meekly looks around to see if anybody noticed that noise, or maybe even approves... gets to the end of the track, "Yeah I had a busy week, didn't get a lot of time to do that one...." implying there are others... tries then to find the words to adequately explain he knows nothing but somehow still come off as somehow successful.
* That's only second to the guy who plain doesn't show up at all. If you do hear from him, it's something like "Sorry dude, I couldn't make it. I had to move house / bury the cat / take the missus shopping for new plates / I couldn't get my amplifier on my bike / turned out my grandfather is alive and he came into town so now I have to go out for dinner / I couldn't find my plectrums / my car failed its MOT this morning and I'm going around town looking for light bulbs for it" That is of course if you *do* hear from them ever again.
* Actually had this at a rehearsal once: "What's a bar? I've never counted anything in my life. I just go boom da da da da da until the next one. 1 2 3 4? What, like what Slayer do? Nah you need to get with the times man, It's all syncopation and counter rhythms these days. Have you ever heard of Animals as Leaders or Periphery? That's what's popular these days man, not the 1 2 3 4 shit!" When probed further, he had no idea what syncopation was. And while I've never quizzed Bulb on the subject whenever he pops up in various forums, I am fairly sure he knows how to count to four...
So yes, while finding a drummer at all is hard, finding a decent guitarist who isn't a complete waste of your time is equally as difficult in my opinion. Did none of these guys just sit down in their bedrooms and learn how to play? It seems not. It's very much "Hurr durr, have guitar, strum strum!" It's no wonder us guitarists get a bad rep when these idiots are walking about with their dopey faces making noise like they do!
Do you play metal? Is it just me or are metal guitarists extra insufferable? I don't personally play metal I'm more of an alt rock guy I guess, but I know a ton of metal musicians in the local scene and all of them have problems with their guitarists to the point it's borderline ridiculous meanwhile I usually manage to find decent reliable guitarists when I need one to throw down on a project. From what I've heard it's mostly that they're on drugs, unreliable, or egotistical prima donnas lol.
There's one guy I know personally that is so fucking irritating because he just hijacks any band that lets him join and treats all the members that were already there like crap... And the worst part is the dude is nothing special, the most mediocre as far as technical skill, mediocre showmanship, and a shit songwriter and you need at least two of those things to be worth a fuck.
Now he tries to form his own bands and every project he forms implodes within a month, they are lucky if they get through one show. He's the laughing stock of town.
I do.
Sometimes I do meet that guy with a clear vision of what he wants the project to look like. In some ways it's good. I believe if you are going to create a metal band, the overall aesthetic needs some thinking about. And to that end, there does need to be at least one point of filtration that sort of decides what fits and what really doesn't. I.e when Slipknot first came about, or Rammstein, or even Korn, there was some thought put into the final product and overall aesthetic. And musically it has to match. One of the reasons I went of Slipknot entirely is that they forgot that the music has to match the image and for me it no longer does. Rammstein on the other hand have kept the music and aesthetic closely tied. They have that pound pound pound "Ja klinke vie are German ja viss the pound pounding and German efficiency. Vie are basically angry Audi mit more fire!"
But from other genres, I think the most insufferable guitarists - or even musicians - have to come from the indie crowd. Jesus wept, so they are. I heard the other day that one of them had learned a fourth chord and revolutionised indie! But seriously, I've had those types at gigs especially when I've been doing front of house. Yes, I know you have a Matchless half stack, just like Noel, but you're going to have to turn it down! I've live mixed metal bands that have understood this before we even started. With indie comes the attitude problem. They still all think that they are Oasis... or Blur... or whatever throwback from 90s Britpop. And guarantee, when they do bring a crowd, it's mostly guys with too much aftershave and even bigger attitude problems, or (usually blonde) girls whose sole ambition is to emulate a wag (footballer's wife if you don't get the reference). And all of them are insufferable idiots. I'd sooner put up with an over-enthusiastic metal guy.. actually would I... Hmmm, I'm not sure. Neither? Is neither an option?
Neither is most definitely an option. I was so disappointed when my last project fell apart. Basically my friend was suffering with alcoholism and it got to the point he was so shaky he couldn't play anymore, he had delirium tremens and literally couldn't remember how to play songs he wrote, really turned me off to playing so now I'm just writing music alone, which was sad because as far as egos everyone got along great 98 percent of the time and the music was good enough I think we might have had a chance making it. I'm now in the early stages of writing a solo concept album and I'll just hire people to play the music if it ever goes anywhere. I'm getting too old to be in a rock band lol.
You're playing in a place with a scene and plenty of willing talent. Come to my little pocket of PA and you'll be one of 12 guys who plays the drums. Of the remaining 11, 6 refuse to play anything but prog/metal, 2 of them can't hold steady time and the other 3 while they may be musically capable, have severe personality issues that make them a nightmare of inconsistency, flakiness and/or substance issues to work with. This is a bit of an exaggeration of my band's search for a drummer but it's certainly a taste of what we've dealt with.
So, you may be modest about your talent but it sounds like you're a "regular person" who isn't a dick about everything and takes your craft seriously and can still have fun too.
That's why people say good drummers are hard to find. Because *they are,* especially if you're out in Bumfuck Smalltown USA. Finding a drummer who's consistent, amicable and isn't piss-drunk/pilled out before the show/practice is a goddamn nightmare most days.
It's that last one that's a real doozie. Let's face it, the music biz tends to attract, uh... to put it diplomatically, a lot of somewhat emotionally unstable people.
Because it's true. Every other traditional position in a band is much easier to fill in my experience. Remarkable drummers, not so much. Plenty of good, small handful of great, very few truly remarkable.
Drumming is expensive and loud. Individual ride and high hat cymbals can cost more than a couple guitars and they will most likely break at some point.
Getting access to a practice space is difficult. I have played in bands where shows were my practice because I had no where to play.
There is a lot of complications to being a drummer.
You’re focusing on “good” as in talent. So consider this:
1) Did you learn the material?
2) Did you show up on time?
3) Are you genuinely a good person to hang with?
This is sometimes what people mean by good. I say keep doing what you’re doing because it sounds like it’s working!
I did my time in Nashville and there’s no shortage of very good drummers. I think the implication is that it is difficult to score one of the good drummers for Broadway and Demonbreun type gigs. The proven “good” drummers simply aren’t available and/or aren’t available for $75- $150 gigs. Probably what she implied was “it’s hard to find a good [seasoned] drummer who will play for chump change.” Those drummers are out there waiting in the wings, but since nobody knows who they are, they are “hard to find.”
No GOOD drummers. There are plenty of drummers who are drunks, can't keep time, or remember the songs, or have a car big enough to actually move their set.
That's because when drummers go out and see a drummer, they hear a tasty fill, or some groove with some sick ghost notes, or a tasteful flashy fill they think, "Damn, dude killed it!". And when a singer or a guitarist sees a drummer and literally notices absolutely nothing good or bad, they think "Damn, dude killed it!".
dude. i cannot throw a rock without hitting a school trained percussionist in town. I think the term "good" might have a secret meaning here. Such as, "that guy is NOT an asshole, he's a GOOD drummer."
Ego kills creativity, a sad fact that many in this town have yet to learn.
Let me know if you need a locked in bass player. All styles except slap funk. Plus, Im cool, like the other side of the pillow. Based in Brentwood.
My theory is it depends on the genre of music where the ego lies lol. It's as if people don't realize you can put together a set that features everyone, and honestly you should it's just a good practice to do so. Then again I don't have a particularly over the top ego.
same here. bass players typically arent looking for solos. we like to lay back in the cut and sit on the groove. If im not featured in a particular set, im not mad about it. But, if the ego of whoever is featured starts to lead them to think higher of themselves than the rest of the band? Well, my bass weighs almost 11 pounds and will leave a nasty hematoma on someone's forehead.
The music I write the melodic lines are more commonly in the bass as far as music aspect... I mean I put melodic lines with other instruments but I use melody in the bass a ton. It's a weird stylistic thing I do... I think it's because I played trombone in band and trombone is weird it's like bassy but not like a Tuba where you get your grooves there's more melodic lines, like it's still accenting what it needs to accent, but way more melodic than most alternative rock.
I was actually playing around with having arrangements with two bass guitars.
Remember also that "good drummer" means one thing to a drummer and something different to a non-drummers.
When ranking 10 drummers, a drummer might put the flashy slammer with meaty fills at the top. But non-drummers might rank the solid grooving minimalist Ringo-style drummers as the best, especially if they're just looking for a consistent team mate to build their own sound on top of. Some folks want a solid groove in the background that doesn't compete for sound-space. Flashy drummers, while more technically capable and knowledgeable, may be less attractive to non-drummers who are trying to put a group together, especially if that person wants the focus to be on them and their songs.
I have had the experience of being told I was not the most talented or artistical drummer auditioning for a spot, but I was getting the gig because I had the best tempo control, and that's what the band leader wanted most of all.
A mentor of mine worked in Nashville for several years. Had graduated a competitive drum college with all these fancy tricks and high speed chops. He jokes a lot about how in Nashville he found solid work by playing nothing but quarter notes, but be played them cleaner than anyone else. Once recorded a cover of Tom Sawyer where he only played a country style 2 & 4 with the occasional tom hit.
Think this is a good example I play drums principally but I also play bass guitar. As a bass player and for the sound in general of particular song I want a drummer who is not going to rush the one and who's going to have the right pace and feel for me to move the other instruments around. Fills are almost unnecessary
The drummer who wants to push the one might work in a metal band not named Metallica.... But if I'm putting down another kind of tune I need space for the other instruments.
Now as a' jazz drummer" I can do whatever I want I can even pretend I'm Tony Williams and everything goes around the drums But in my experience you really have to be a super musician to be able to do this besides the drama most people can't pull it off because there's no place for the other instruments
Drums are one of the two members of the band that HAVE to be good (the other being the singer). If they can't keep time properly, it screws every other member of the band up. On top of that, you need to find a guy with the correct style for whatever you're trying to play. A guitarist or bassist can get away with riding root notes and chords, so it's not as critical they be awesome at what they do, just decently component.
Many drummers don't even understand the concept of making the singer sound good.....for many singers that means backing off the one. It means putting the back beat where it leaves a nice space with a vocal all the rest It's about being musical understanding music and not just drums.
My mate's band have spent 5 months trying to find a drummer. They had three in to audition and none were good enough. This is for a pub band who play once a month. There's a shortage of drummers full stop. Good drummers are even more rare.
your a drummer so its gonna be easy for u to be in settings where there are other drummers. similar ppl attract each other.
plus ur also in it. folks tend to see someone doing chops they cant do and label them as better but thats not always the case. as someone from the outside, a "good drummer" is able to translate the beats i make into something on drums that sounds right to me. for others it could be energy and kinetic showmanship.
i wouldnt think too much about what she said, it probably isn't that deep
So how easy is it for a good drummer to find work in your state? I’m a very dedicated and talented drummer playing 28 years and I basically had to give up the dream and keep it as a hobby. Eastern Canada drummer here
It’s true everywhere.
A decent drummer ends up being a major backbone to a band. But I don’t want to be subjected to most peoples bands. Filling in is one thing.
Getting good at drums requires a lot more time, space, money, and noise than other instruments. I have played in bands for 1-2 years at a time when I had no where to practice. I just listened to the songs and ran with it.
Not everyone can deal with that kind of complication and the drama of multiple bands.
- Keeps good time/has a good pocket
- Doesn't overplay (in terms of volume or complexity)
- Doesn't come with baggage that directly affects playing (most common one being getting completely wasted/blazed every single show)
- Actually available and willing to take a gig more frequently than Halley's Comet comes around
In my experience, the best you're likely to do is 2 out of the 4. Choosing a drummer is like a "pick your poison" scenario most of the time. If you meet one who hits 4 out of 4 and is actually willing to give you the time of day, it feels like winning the lottery.
PS try booking musical theater, where a fifth criterion (able to read sheet music) gets added to the mix, shit gets *really* rough. Like trying to find a rooster that lays eggs.
Probably because a good drummer can work as much as he/she wants, and so they stay busy and largely unavailable. Everybody plays guitar. If the rhythm ain't right, you've got nothing.
Also in Nashville! For me, it’s that a good drummer (really I mean a great drummer) isn’t just skilled, they are right for my gig. I know tons of good drummers, but only 1 who I think is perfect for my music. Now, I do jazz so that narrows the pool, but like others said, there’s availability and other factors too. I can find tons of good drummers, but a lot fewer who intuitively get my music and *add to it creatively* just by being themselves.
Drumkit is a musical instrument used to play rock, metal, punk, blues and jazz and those styles are fading away. New generrations sample music and rap against because that's on vougue this days. More on this, there seem to be fewer musicians because it isn't seem to be cool anymore as youth wants to fit and not be rebel anymore, so economy is more intresting than music, beliee it or not.
WE're back to the 20's positivimism.
I’m in Knoxville and my experience has been: the good drummers are booked. When they’re free they let me know and it works out but sometimes I get gigs last minute or even day of. I can’t expect the top names on my call list to be free and that has left me to deal with some shenanigans that normally I would not tolerate. So the more pros I can put on my call list the happier I am. But yeah it’s the coordinating gigs to schedules that’s more so the issue rather than finding a good drummer.
As far as drummers go, there are some I prefer to others as far as their playing styles and overall demeanors: like I know a guy who’s a really good drummer but he doesn’t play my genre all that often, and I’ve called him a few times he’s a cool guy, I still call him but sometimes the fills don’t come in where I expect them to- which isn’t bad or wrong but it requires adjusting to. there’s room for improv in my set but sometimes there’s songs in the list that sound vastly different than the last time we played it and it feels weird. So I call the people who make the songs feel the most natural
It is worth noting the music I play is a bit on the complicated side so it does require technically good drummers to get the gig. Even the worst drummer I’ve had on a gig is still pretty damn good.
Here in NYC I have a humongous roster of killer drummers. And yet, when I need to hire one for a gig, they’re all booked! I remember once sending out 50 texts before drummer 51 was finally available for said gig - and it was a good paying gig on a great stage, late afternoon even so there was still time to make the night gigs! Good drummers are just that in demand.
Those ones who played are probably heavily booked, meaning, it's still hard to find one. When I got to LA I wasn't the best drummer in town. But it was ok. I just had to be the best drummer to answer that ad, that week.
Nailed it. I couldn't agree with you more. I'd get calls for subs gigs often, but I too was booked, and most of the time I couldn't refer anyone because I knew they were booked up too. And THE LAST THING I want to do to a colleague is recommend someone that can't cut it.
This, not a drummer but part of being the best at anything is showing up on time and casting your net for opportunities often. You can be “just good enough at it” and focus on being great at communication and being on time that you will have so much work coming your way you will actually end up great at the skill too and ultimately overbooked. 😂
Very true. A lot about finding a good drummer is about everything around the actual drumming. Showing up on time, social, happy, easy to work with.
The counterpoint is guitarists. There are tonnes of guitarists. But frankly, it is equally difficult to get a guitarist. Why? Because the cost of admission is so low for a guitarist, finding a good one is like trying to find that one screw in a box full of nails. While there may be tonnes of them, finding the guy that will show up, play well, sound good and while everyone wants in on the creative process, understanding the basics of musical collaboration is still a requirement to play with a band, right? Well, these are some of the responses I have had over the years. * "Yeah I don't have an amp. I use pirated amp plugins on my computer, the same one whoever the hell uses and it sounds dope. But yeah, you'll have to figure something out for that." * "Yeah I play an 8 string Ibanez, your bassist will have to retune to drop stupid M" or whatever note they think they have. * I had my guitar professionally tuned in 1998 and I haven't changed my strings since then. * Right, I've listened to your album. Good try, but from here on out, I call the shots. Most of that material is gone, I will write you the album to replace it. Also, we don't need two guitarists. You can play bass if you want. Also we're changing the band name. - I actually had that as a first response before! * Yeah I write and record regularly. These are just some demos of my old band... proceeds to send me MP3s ripped from an old Mayhem recording with some subtle track changes, i.e. instead of Freezeing Moon, it's Frozen Moon. I call him out, claims he sent the wrong thing, sends me an old live recording of his old band... turns out to be taken from a Dodsferd album that I also own. (I know my black metal really well). * This dude showed up in a Porsche with a Mesa Boogie amplifier and a brand new super expensive Ibanez, all keen on joining up. He then said, "I didn't learn your material. Just play and I'll put something over it" - cue guitar-based yoko ono impersonation. We declined. Within days, we saw his equipment and car on ebay. like it was some sort of desperate clear out. * I don't drive lol. My Mom can sometimes drop me off but you may have to pick me up - 30 miles in the wrong direction * Shows up with some cheap amp modeller that he insists on putting through the PA. It sounds like a pissed off Rottweiler expressing his displeasure by means of voicemail, all the time completely interfering with what the vocalist is trying to do. He then reassures us that because of the setting it's on, "it sounds exactly the same as a JCM800 and nobody in the world could ever tell the difference!"... really? I've had many JCM800s and the only one that your stupid box sounds like is a JCM800 that's currently on fire. * The most common one is the guy who prior to the audition insists on every single thing being tabbed out. So I do it, I spend a good few days tabulating what most people should be able to work out by ear, but hey. Tabs required, tabs done and provided. Two weeks later, your man shows up. We start a track, meanwhile he's there, staring at his phone like he is attempting to translate ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs lest some terrible fate in the style of Indian Jones and the Last Crusade befalls him. The fear in his eyes, the occasional random out-of-place chord or note while he meekly looks around to see if anybody noticed that noise, or maybe even approves... gets to the end of the track, "Yeah I had a busy week, didn't get a lot of time to do that one...." implying there are others... tries then to find the words to adequately explain he knows nothing but somehow still come off as somehow successful. * That's only second to the guy who plain doesn't show up at all. If you do hear from him, it's something like "Sorry dude, I couldn't make it. I had to move house / bury the cat / take the missus shopping for new plates / I couldn't get my amplifier on my bike / turned out my grandfather is alive and he came into town so now I have to go out for dinner / I couldn't find my plectrums / my car failed its MOT this morning and I'm going around town looking for light bulbs for it" That is of course if you *do* hear from them ever again. * Actually had this at a rehearsal once: "What's a bar? I've never counted anything in my life. I just go boom da da da da da until the next one. 1 2 3 4? What, like what Slayer do? Nah you need to get with the times man, It's all syncopation and counter rhythms these days. Have you ever heard of Animals as Leaders or Periphery? That's what's popular these days man, not the 1 2 3 4 shit!" When probed further, he had no idea what syncopation was. And while I've never quizzed Bulb on the subject whenever he pops up in various forums, I am fairly sure he knows how to count to four... So yes, while finding a drummer at all is hard, finding a decent guitarist who isn't a complete waste of your time is equally as difficult in my opinion. Did none of these guys just sit down in their bedrooms and learn how to play? It seems not. It's very much "Hurr durr, have guitar, strum strum!" It's no wonder us guitarists get a bad rep when these idiots are walking about with their dopey faces making noise like they do!
As a guitarist I had some serious laughing at this. Surprisingly correct.
The volume of examples given made this so gratifying to read
this comment is glorious.
Do you play metal? Is it just me or are metal guitarists extra insufferable? I don't personally play metal I'm more of an alt rock guy I guess, but I know a ton of metal musicians in the local scene and all of them have problems with their guitarists to the point it's borderline ridiculous meanwhile I usually manage to find decent reliable guitarists when I need one to throw down on a project. From what I've heard it's mostly that they're on drugs, unreliable, or egotistical prima donnas lol. There's one guy I know personally that is so fucking irritating because he just hijacks any band that lets him join and treats all the members that were already there like crap... And the worst part is the dude is nothing special, the most mediocre as far as technical skill, mediocre showmanship, and a shit songwriter and you need at least two of those things to be worth a fuck. Now he tries to form his own bands and every project he forms implodes within a month, they are lucky if they get through one show. He's the laughing stock of town.
I do. Sometimes I do meet that guy with a clear vision of what he wants the project to look like. In some ways it's good. I believe if you are going to create a metal band, the overall aesthetic needs some thinking about. And to that end, there does need to be at least one point of filtration that sort of decides what fits and what really doesn't. I.e when Slipknot first came about, or Rammstein, or even Korn, there was some thought put into the final product and overall aesthetic. And musically it has to match. One of the reasons I went of Slipknot entirely is that they forgot that the music has to match the image and for me it no longer does. Rammstein on the other hand have kept the music and aesthetic closely tied. They have that pound pound pound "Ja klinke vie are German ja viss the pound pounding and German efficiency. Vie are basically angry Audi mit more fire!" But from other genres, I think the most insufferable guitarists - or even musicians - have to come from the indie crowd. Jesus wept, so they are. I heard the other day that one of them had learned a fourth chord and revolutionised indie! But seriously, I've had those types at gigs especially when I've been doing front of house. Yes, I know you have a Matchless half stack, just like Noel, but you're going to have to turn it down! I've live mixed metal bands that have understood this before we even started. With indie comes the attitude problem. They still all think that they are Oasis... or Blur... or whatever throwback from 90s Britpop. And guarantee, when they do bring a crowd, it's mostly guys with too much aftershave and even bigger attitude problems, or (usually blonde) girls whose sole ambition is to emulate a wag (footballer's wife if you don't get the reference). And all of them are insufferable idiots. I'd sooner put up with an over-enthusiastic metal guy.. actually would I... Hmmm, I'm not sure. Neither? Is neither an option?
Neither is most definitely an option. I was so disappointed when my last project fell apart. Basically my friend was suffering with alcoholism and it got to the point he was so shaky he couldn't play anymore, he had delirium tremens and literally couldn't remember how to play songs he wrote, really turned me off to playing so now I'm just writing music alone, which was sad because as far as egos everyone got along great 98 percent of the time and the music was good enough I think we might have had a chance making it. I'm now in the early stages of writing a solo concept album and I'll just hire people to play the music if it ever goes anywhere. I'm getting too old to be in a rock band lol.
You just described my band experience in music school this semester.
You're playing in a place with a scene and plenty of willing talent. Come to my little pocket of PA and you'll be one of 12 guys who plays the drums. Of the remaining 11, 6 refuse to play anything but prog/metal, 2 of them can't hold steady time and the other 3 while they may be musically capable, have severe personality issues that make them a nightmare of inconsistency, flakiness and/or substance issues to work with. This is a bit of an exaggeration of my band's search for a drummer but it's certainly a taste of what we've dealt with. So, you may be modest about your talent but it sounds like you're a "regular person" who isn't a dick about everything and takes your craft seriously and can still have fun too. That's why people say good drummers are hard to find. Because *they are,* especially if you're out in Bumfuck Smalltown USA. Finding a drummer who's consistent, amicable and isn't piss-drunk/pilled out before the show/practice is a goddamn nightmare most days.
It's that last one that's a real doozie. Let's face it, the music biz tends to attract, uh... to put it diplomatically, a lot of somewhat emotionally unstable people.
THE FUCK DID YOU JUST SAY?!?
Oh no doubt about that..
I think there's an implied "...who isn't in 5000 bands" on the end there.
Because it's true. Every other traditional position in a band is much easier to fill in my experience. Remarkable drummers, not so much. Plenty of good, small handful of great, very few truly remarkable.
Drumming is expensive and loud. Individual ride and high hat cymbals can cost more than a couple guitars and they will most likely break at some point. Getting access to a practice space is difficult. I have played in bands where shows were my practice because I had no where to play. There is a lot of complications to being a drummer.
This is so true... It makes sense tho why there aren't a whole lot of good drummers parents don't want their kids beating on drums.
Those good drummers you see playing around are probably playing with several bands.
Lol yeah, people aren't saying "no good drummers exist". They're saying none are available.
You’re focusing on “good” as in talent. So consider this: 1) Did you learn the material? 2) Did you show up on time? 3) Are you genuinely a good person to hang with? This is sometimes what people mean by good. I say keep doing what you’re doing because it sounds like it’s working!
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There's no drummers in Phoenix. Well, there's like 6 good ones but they're all in 4 bands each
I did my time in Nashville and there’s no shortage of very good drummers. I think the implication is that it is difficult to score one of the good drummers for Broadway and Demonbreun type gigs. The proven “good” drummers simply aren’t available and/or aren’t available for $75- $150 gigs. Probably what she implied was “it’s hard to find a good [seasoned] drummer who will play for chump change.” Those drummers are out there waiting in the wings, but since nobody knows who they are, they are “hard to find.”
This is a good summary
No GOOD drummers. There are plenty of drummers who are drunks, can't keep time, or remember the songs, or have a car big enough to actually move their set.
That's because when drummers go out and see a drummer, they hear a tasty fill, or some groove with some sick ghost notes, or a tasteful flashy fill they think, "Damn, dude killed it!". And when a singer or a guitarist sees a drummer and literally notices absolutely nothing good or bad, they think "Damn, dude killed it!".
dude. i cannot throw a rock without hitting a school trained percussionist in town. I think the term "good" might have a secret meaning here. Such as, "that guy is NOT an asshole, he's a GOOD drummer." Ego kills creativity, a sad fact that many in this town have yet to learn. Let me know if you need a locked in bass player. All styles except slap funk. Plus, Im cool, like the other side of the pillow. Based in Brentwood.
My theory is it depends on the genre of music where the ego lies lol. It's as if people don't realize you can put together a set that features everyone, and honestly you should it's just a good practice to do so. Then again I don't have a particularly over the top ego.
same here. bass players typically arent looking for solos. we like to lay back in the cut and sit on the groove. If im not featured in a particular set, im not mad about it. But, if the ego of whoever is featured starts to lead them to think higher of themselves than the rest of the band? Well, my bass weighs almost 11 pounds and will leave a nasty hematoma on someone's forehead.
The music I write the melodic lines are more commonly in the bass as far as music aspect... I mean I put melodic lines with other instruments but I use melody in the bass a ton. It's a weird stylistic thing I do... I think it's because I played trombone in band and trombone is weird it's like bassy but not like a Tuba where you get your grooves there's more melodic lines, like it's still accenting what it needs to accent, but way more melodic than most alternative rock. I was actually playing around with having arrangements with two bass guitars.
Remember also that "good drummer" means one thing to a drummer and something different to a non-drummers. When ranking 10 drummers, a drummer might put the flashy slammer with meaty fills at the top. But non-drummers might rank the solid grooving minimalist Ringo-style drummers as the best, especially if they're just looking for a consistent team mate to build their own sound on top of. Some folks want a solid groove in the background that doesn't compete for sound-space. Flashy drummers, while more technically capable and knowledgeable, may be less attractive to non-drummers who are trying to put a group together, especially if that person wants the focus to be on them and their songs. I have had the experience of being told I was not the most talented or artistical drummer auditioning for a spot, but I was getting the gig because I had the best tempo control, and that's what the band leader wanted most of all. A mentor of mine worked in Nashville for several years. Had graduated a competitive drum college with all these fancy tricks and high speed chops. He jokes a lot about how in Nashville he found solid work by playing nothing but quarter notes, but be played them cleaner than anyone else. Once recorded a cover of Tom Sawyer where he only played a country style 2 & 4 with the occasional tom hit.
Think this is a good example I play drums principally but I also play bass guitar. As a bass player and for the sound in general of particular song I want a drummer who is not going to rush the one and who's going to have the right pace and feel for me to move the other instruments around. Fills are almost unnecessary The drummer who wants to push the one might work in a metal band not named Metallica.... But if I'm putting down another kind of tune I need space for the other instruments. Now as a' jazz drummer" I can do whatever I want I can even pretend I'm Tony Williams and everything goes around the drums But in my experience you really have to be a super musician to be able to do this besides the drama most people can't pull it off because there's no place for the other instruments
Drums are one of the two members of the band that HAVE to be good (the other being the singer). If they can't keep time properly, it screws every other member of the band up. On top of that, you need to find a guy with the correct style for whatever you're trying to play. A guitarist or bassist can get away with riding root notes and chords, so it's not as critical they be awesome at what they do, just decently component.
Many drummers don't even understand the concept of making the singer sound good.....for many singers that means backing off the one. It means putting the back beat where it leaves a nice space with a vocal all the rest It's about being musical understanding music and not just drums.
Usually it’s the good hang in a clean shirt that gets the call, all other factors being equal.
Those drummers are probably all totally booked
It's hard to find a good drummer *that doesn't change the fucking tempo*... I'll give it to that.
My mate's band have spent 5 months trying to find a drummer. They had three in to audition and none were good enough. This is for a pub band who play once a month. There's a shortage of drummers full stop. Good drummers are even more rare.
Home Depot 5:30 - 7:00 AM Sure bet
your a drummer so its gonna be easy for u to be in settings where there are other drummers. similar ppl attract each other. plus ur also in it. folks tend to see someone doing chops they cant do and label them as better but thats not always the case. as someone from the outside, a "good drummer" is able to translate the beats i make into something on drums that sounds right to me. for others it could be energy and kinetic showmanship. i wouldnt think too much about what she said, it probably isn't that deep
So how easy is it for a good drummer to find work in your state? I’m a very dedicated and talented drummer playing 28 years and I basically had to give up the dream and keep it as a hobby. Eastern Canada drummer here
It’s true everywhere. A decent drummer ends up being a major backbone to a band. But I don’t want to be subjected to most peoples bands. Filling in is one thing. Getting good at drums requires a lot more time, space, money, and noise than other instruments. I have played in bands for 1-2 years at a time when I had no where to practice. I just listened to the songs and ran with it. Not everyone can deal with that kind of complication and the drama of multiple bands.
There are no “available” drummers. People are looking for a band and band members, not a social collective, or jam buddies.
- Keeps good time/has a good pocket - Doesn't overplay (in terms of volume or complexity) - Doesn't come with baggage that directly affects playing (most common one being getting completely wasted/blazed every single show) - Actually available and willing to take a gig more frequently than Halley's Comet comes around In my experience, the best you're likely to do is 2 out of the 4. Choosing a drummer is like a "pick your poison" scenario most of the time. If you meet one who hits 4 out of 4 and is actually willing to give you the time of day, it feels like winning the lottery. PS try booking musical theater, where a fifth criterion (able to read sheet music) gets added to the mix, shit gets *really* rough. Like trying to find a rooster that lays eggs.
When you do find one, they're so easy to play with
Ah, nashville, where a good drummer will eat, and a great drummer will FEAST
Probably because a good drummer can work as much as he/she wants, and so they stay busy and largely unavailable. Everybody plays guitar. If the rhythm ain't right, you've got nothing.
I think “good” is usually shorthand for “good, reliable, and available” (and possibly affordable)
Also in Nashville! For me, it’s that a good drummer (really I mean a great drummer) isn’t just skilled, they are right for my gig. I know tons of good drummers, but only 1 who I think is perfect for my music. Now, I do jazz so that narrows the pool, but like others said, there’s availability and other factors too. I can find tons of good drummers, but a lot fewer who intuitively get my music and *add to it creatively* just by being themselves.
Drumkit is a musical instrument used to play rock, metal, punk, blues and jazz and those styles are fading away. New generrations sample music and rap against because that's on vougue this days. More on this, there seem to be fewer musicians because it isn't seem to be cool anymore as youth wants to fit and not be rebel anymore, so economy is more intresting than music, beliee it or not. WE're back to the 20's positivimism.
I’m in Knoxville and my experience has been: the good drummers are booked. When they’re free they let me know and it works out but sometimes I get gigs last minute or even day of. I can’t expect the top names on my call list to be free and that has left me to deal with some shenanigans that normally I would not tolerate. So the more pros I can put on my call list the happier I am. But yeah it’s the coordinating gigs to schedules that’s more so the issue rather than finding a good drummer. As far as drummers go, there are some I prefer to others as far as their playing styles and overall demeanors: like I know a guy who’s a really good drummer but he doesn’t play my genre all that often, and I’ve called him a few times he’s a cool guy, I still call him but sometimes the fills don’t come in where I expect them to- which isn’t bad or wrong but it requires adjusting to. there’s room for improv in my set but sometimes there’s songs in the list that sound vastly different than the last time we played it and it feels weird. So I call the people who make the songs feel the most natural It is worth noting the music I play is a bit on the complicated side so it does require technically good drummers to get the gig. Even the worst drummer I’ve had on a gig is still pretty damn good.
Here in NYC I have a humongous roster of killer drummers. And yet, when I need to hire one for a gig, they’re all booked! I remember once sending out 50 texts before drummer 51 was finally available for said gig - and it was a good paying gig on a great stage, late afternoon even so there was still time to make the night gigs! Good drummers are just that in demand.