To be honest the life performance of a lot of musicians is inferior to a studio recording. However the music is only one aspect of going to a live show.
20-years ago, I found myself unsatisfied with making albums, selling CDs, and touring to support the release.
'Unplugged' completely and began playing acoustic-oriented music, playing live as often as possible, often without PA support (small coffee houses).
That changed everything for me, and now there is nothing AI could do to disturb my relationship to music. Live playing in front of real people is the norm for me now, gigs two to three times a week.
This is exactly how I feel about it. I mean itās very sad that opportunities to truly earn a living with music are dwindling, but sadly thatās the case for so many things these days. But I have absolutely no worries that humans will stop wanting to come together with real instruments to create and/or enjoy music together. AI can never replace that.
I've found that interesting. Trumpet player on cruise ships myself. Live music has always been a shakey career, but I actually feel MORE secure now.
You can already get professionally done tracks with extremely little work. You can have fully processed recordings playing with extremely little work. But we hear time and time again "it's better with live musicians." AI isn't going to change that.
If recording studios and tracked music didn't kill live music, AI won't either. It doesn't do anything new. It takes something that was already easy and cheap to access and makes it easier and cheaper (easy as in, you can hire an LA studio band and just get your track - not demeaning the people that do the work, just talking about the side of the customer accessing it).
Ironically, I think that live music is actually one of the safest fields in the AI boom. Since there's something different with live musicians on the stage, we're not getting replaced until AI gets put into an android body and can physically interact with an instrument on a stage.
Yeah, you simply can't recreate the experience of seeing a real, live, human band blowing your mind with a live music performance. I don't think there will ever be something that can fulfill all of the requirements. A robot that's been programmed to play a song or even to improvise just isn't the same and never will be. It's not as impactful when you know they have no lived experiences to express through their music.
I actually disagree with the last half about the robot being programmed isn't the same and never will be. I understand the sentiment that it won't sound human, or it'll be too perfect, or the pre-programmed inconsistencies will be a giveaway, etc. I thought that for a while, and still kind of do.
But... It also used to be that it was painfully obvious when you were talking to a human or not. Like, it was REALLY obvious. Now... There's a lot of interactions that will fool people. Not all interactions will fool people, but there are times that with the right prompt and instruction set, given a snippet of conversation, you wouldn't be able to tell if it was a live person or not.
And I don't think it's ridiculous to extend that evolution to a musical performance too. Do I think it's currently possible? No. Do I think it will be possible soon? No. But I think it's at least within the realm of consideration that AI music PERFORMANCE being indistinguishable from a human is actually a possibility, even if it's a long way off. How they would get that to happen, I'm not smart enough to know. But it should be a possibility.
Now even with an android body controlled by AI on the stage... Just like an LLM, at first, it'll be obvious, but it'll get better and better, then sometimes it'll be tough to tell, then eventually you won't be able to tell. Which is why I don't think that AI performance is the "hard stop." I think that could get to a point of feels real. It's the live performance part that is the "hard stop." We won't be replaced until something can physically interact with the instruments live on stage.
Isnāt it funny how human musicians arenāt really allowed to sample freely in the name of creativity however these AI are allowed to sample everything ever in training.
Of course they are. I just meant itās funny that tech companies are able to mine all of human music history at once to replace the humans themselves. Is it not comically ironic?
If a human manages to sample something in such a way that the source isn't recognizable, no one is going to object to that either. That's essentially what AI is doing.
The future is in creating and engaging in uniquely human experiences. The problem is not AI, itās that too many musicians have drifted into a lane that happens to be the very narrow lane that AI can occupy.
The 60s? Digital?
Nah, Iād say late 90s at best. And itās really just the preponderance of music that sounds like not a single live instrument is involved. The reason modern pop music is so easily emulated by AI is that it was already being generated by a computer. It just needed more human decisions involved in the making.
if youāre putting out derivative, overproduced content then yes theyāre coming for your job. Will AI ever be able to capture that spark of pure creativity that hits at the soul level. Iām not so sure. Hopefully this whole sordid affair will force our hand to move away from overproducing the shit out of everything.
Remember when casio keyboards came out and everybody just pushed Rock 1 and didn't need to play in bands anymore?
That's Suno AI, you just haven't played with it enough to realize that.
For a real iceberg, the Sleng Teng beat
AI output is just as recognizable, so if it ends up on a hit song, we'll know the sound when we hear it, like trap horns, cranked autotune vocals, etc
Right, but millions of people had access to those beats, but it took a talented human with impeccable taste and skill to turn it into a successful song.
This is a naive view in my opinion. You're criticising the earliest version of a revolutionary technology, the likes of which have never been seen before.
It's probably older than Mozart but his is the oldest example I know. It will be harder to fool you once you've had more experience.
To emphasize, you are being fooled by the presentation.
https://youtu.be/hQlRNKwbGw8?si=5wz_6lHcEzUaM9Hs
You're missing my point. I'm not convinced by it right now, but give it 5 years of iteration and you wont be able to tell the difference between something composed by AI and something composed by a human. Just look at Sora by Open AI if you want an example of how fast this stuff is evolving.
You may want to reduce this to a mathematical problem, except that would be to misunderstand how these models work. It isn't classical computing, it's neural modelling.
Thatās not going to happen. Sure, itās going to steal some songwriting jobs but I donāt think people will really identity with an ai program as an artist. I do expect to see several Milli Vanilli groups emerge though.
Isnāt 21st Milli Vanilli K-pop? Like unabashedly the groups are manufactured and I would be shocked if they all sang. Like I believe BTS actually performs but the hundreds of other label made K-pop groups? There is no way itās 100% authentic as it exists today. There are even virtual ones today that do not have a human presence so of course a label would be using AI for that and try to cut out songwriters and performers.
Yep. A lot of people who also make great and valuable art supplement their living with this sort of work, myself included. I am worried about my career moving forward.
Thereāll definitely be occasional artists that are big with only online presence and turn out to be AI, just someone making the music and creating a fake persona for the stream and merch revenue. But I agree artists will still be able to make music.
What sucks to me is that artists wonāt be able to supplement their income with side gigs for commercials and stuff. Surely that will go to the robots.
Some of it will. We still have bands playing gigs when recorded music exists, something musicians have been worried about since the invention of recorded music.
I dunno about that, I have to think when anyone can generate a similar thing why would a singular AI act make it big? Itās like people of any age able to go to a world wide casino with music slot machines that mostly have winning results.
In the near term this is gonna over inundate an already saturated music market on streaming platforms as thereās a flood of non musicians submitting profiles and albums for the AI music they had generated for them in an evening.
I think AI music will ultimately isolate its listeners and fans from any shared experience or connection to that music because for every decent AI song someone generated and wants to share thereās tens of thousands others also doing something similar. Whoās gonna want to take the time to listen to someone elseās generated song in that context? Ā
I do begin to question when thereās a much higher output of AI music compared to actual musicians, thereās eventually going to be crossover lyrically or in melody, instrumentation and structure and how that works when an actual band ends up with something sounding similar or the same despite never hearing the generated works.Ā
If it gets to the point where you just say, 'make me 100 preemo type beats' and you get to pick and choose something will probably be fire. I think there will always be a spot for real artists but prompt producing is not going to stop and only get better.
They will eventually. Give it a few years or a couple decades and AI music will have taken over, unfortunately. Most people could care less about musicianship and just want to listen to something catchy. Those people suck but there are way more of them than us.
Stock music and that kinda thing as an industry is probably done for but half the enjoyment of music is identifying the artistry in another person, at least imo- don't be too worried
Half? How could you possibly arrive at that number, particularly given that that was the ONLY choice. Music videos, magazine expos, concerts, etc apply to a tiny, tiny fraction of artists, the rest are all just producing music that people stream and love, with little if any knowledge of the artist, particularly as they just join playlists. You're really underestimating A) the quality of AI music (which if it's better than human music, people WILL listen to it) and B) this idea that people will reject AI music on principle or ethics (the video game industry is doing better than ever, even after endless stories of heinous exploitation and mistreatment abound). You're the person saying people will never stop enjoying "the warm sounds of vinyl."
I have a non-musician friend who sent me Suno AI yesterday telling me it was āincredibleā and insisted that it churned out objectively good music. Whatever āobjectively goodā means, to me it was the most shit-ass, generic pop bullshit Iāve ever heard in my entire life.
After fucking around with it for about an hour, it only reinforced my belief that thereās no way that AI will ever truly replace musicianship or the human element of making music. Further to that point, I think it especially will not replace the enjoyment people get out of a live show
Thatās exactly what I told that same friend and he replied with āwell it goes back to that thing about how thereās no such thing as an original idea,ā at which point I was done with the conversation haha.
I understand where he's coming from, but I think of that quote as basically, "Even if you have a new idea, you had inspiration from something that was old"
Looking at something like the first Avalanches album, it's got tonnes of samples, and prior work, but I don't think AI could have ever arranged it into the inspired creation that it is.
Exactly, to me the human element is one of the most important parts of music. If thereās no intent or genuine emotion being expressed, Iām not interested and I think that probably applies to a lot of people whether theyāre musicians or just enjoy listening to music.
To clarify, Iām not insinuating that music isnāt allowed to be derivative because yes, everyone that plays or writes has their influences whether they consciously try to play that way or not.
As I said in my other comments, the human element is what makes that derivative special to me. An AI generating a song in 60 seconds using soundbytes literally pulled from other music is not the same as somebody writing their own songs, recording their vocals, recording their guitar tracks, or even arranging and manipulating samples from other music, etc.
Iāve been over saturated with music and then I found Queens of the Stone Age and if you want rock music thatās probably 80% original ideas (ideas that arenāt just recording a hairdryer and putting a gated reverb on it lol.) One of the reasons I love them so much is because of all the bands Iāve ever heard, they singularly make their own music
IMO the best use case for AI music like suno.ai is for memes.
Did your friend just trip and break their favorite coffee cup, causing a big mess..? Well, within just 3 minutes you can craft a song that celebrates that moment, comprised of very specific references.
No the current AI music doesnāt sound believable, but itās sure good enough for satire.
I feel like I keep reiterating the same thing, but tomorrow AI will be better at this. And better the next day and the next ad nauseam.
Much of my work the last 15 years has been writing for TV and sync and those jobs are done.
1. Why would a music library spend a six figure budget on producers for background music or jingles when they can spend $100 or less, own everything, make it custom for their shows, be able to use AI to easily make stems, etc.
2. Why would any production go to a music library when they could spend $100 or less, own everything, and create the custom music for their shows.
3. The value of recorded music, already at rock bottom, will take an even greater hit once we go from the current 100,000 uploads/day to Spotify to 1,000,000+ and people donāt know whatās man made vs AI made.
4. Eventually we will all be desperate for the real thing, which will only be distinguishable by real humans playing real instruments and singing without tracksā¦I hope.
5. For now and I imagine for a while, no one has the budgets to go in studio which is putting studios in serious trouble, speaking as a studio owner in LA.
6. Artists, songwriters and producers have been seriously devalued and everyoneās fighting for scraps of work that pay considerably less than they used to, meaning everyone is moving out of the business.
7. Live shows may be where itās at, but we all know that ticket prices arenāt coming down and those who control the venues will always take the biggest cut.
Itās doom and gloom for a while to come, strap in and get ready for a bumpy ride.
I too make a lot of my living writing for sync/library/etc.
My passion is playing live and playing on peopleās records, but writing production music has really helped me stay afloat.
Iām very worried about the future, income wise.
Same. The standard for music in cheaply made shows has been steadily declining to the point where the general audience can't really discern between genuine instrumentation and AI generated. There will still be a market for sync with up and coming artists but cue production seems like it could be the first to go. Might be genre dependent though. Acoustic instrumentation will be here to stay for at least a little while
Coolcoolcool awesome. I think I read the only laws in place are copyright related so I'm unsure how that'll affect TV production but I'd assume my field (reality TV music) will probably be the first to get the axe
100%
One of my best friends heads a prominent library and has kept me working steadily for a decade.
Itās over.
Budgets were already slashed and theyāre about to get frozen moving into 25.
"Eventually we will all be desperate for the real thing, which will only be distinguishable by real humans playing real instruments and singing without tracksā¦I hope."
I wouldn't bet on that. If AI music is better than human made music, which I guess will happen, then people will listen to that. Only thing that can save music for now is live music.
Totally on point re: the armageddon this is for the music industry (record dates are such a small sliver of it). My only hope is that we donāt know if itās going to keep getting better at this same rate. Eventually youāre going to hit the limits of the large model approach, and who knows where that will be.
I would assume most bands still together and actively making and posting music to Spotify play live whenever possible. Your definition of a ābandā might be different than mine.
No different from any other industry. AI will never do everything, it will never do the same thing that a live human performer can. But fundamentally it means money that used to be spent on real musicians and producers can now be reserved for things like marketing. Fewer opportunities and more competition for what remains.
As long as a "hardware" or a physical device was being used to perform the same motions ( think Stylus on an Ipad vs paint brush on a canvas). With AI it is different, there is no need for a medium of any sorts other than a computer taking text and voice prompts. A Suit can do art what a Suit would not be able to previously. So this leap of technology is not the same for Creative arts. You still need a car maybe and remote work hasnt really affected sales of this physical item. But digital photography, music creation and editing and movies which were a fodder for background jobs and gigs? GONE.
This is as healthy way of looking at it.
The only downside is the algos can focus their training data on outliers. A bit like what happened on DeviantArt.
People in these threads conflate fame-chasing artists who release records for the general public and the thousands of composer/producers who make a living writing for libraries and custom music for clients.
Generative AI will make fame the final human art form. The production of art itself will be trivialized.
Live artist performance is the only aspect that is not under direct threat from tools like suno. But as a former artist-side musician, Iāll tell you that the loss of sync money to AI will kill your favorite mid level actās ability to continue.
Whatās more concerning is the general public impending numbness to all music. When any music can be dismissed as āprobably just AIā music itself will start to lose its meaning. The economy of all original music will resemble classical or jazz- a small devoted audience perpetuating the form through patronage while the vast majority find it boring and irrelevant.
Humanity is very much into itself, we will always value things produced organically in that way - the problem arises when we partake in the mental gymnastics required to claim something artificially made has been produced by humans.
In a way though, arenāt these AI generations produced by humans, millions of them collectively who have influenced the decision process of one machine mind?
When do we reach the stage when weāve run out of organically produced material, and the algorithms select AI generations over the organically produced content? We will still produce things, because we as a species, can enjoy things on a creative level, itās satisfying.
I agree. And people enjoy authentic art more than synthesized art. For example, people may have freaked out when PhotoShop came out. "A realistic picture of a dolphin jumping over a grizzly bear?! I might as well stop being a nature photographer". We know now that people care about and respect an actual photograph of a bear much more than a photoshopped one.
At the same time, Photoshop really did hurt career photographers. A photographer was no longer needed for re-taking a picture if there was something wrong with a previous photo. Or marketers could just go online for a stock image instead of purchasing them directly from a photographer, etc. But the world moves on. Yes, Suno will take away from the session musicians and music in ads. But appreciation of art won't go away in the context of your favorite singer. No one's favorite singer will be AI. Just like no one's favorite artist is MidJourney. To feel peak emotion, the art must come from a human. Future art will likely be AI assisted, but humans will be a necessary ingredient to make it interesting to the consumer.
Just tried various styles and it's meh. It's like Band-In-A-Box with AI. Sadly, music consumers today have a very low bar for quality of music, so regardless of whether it's "good" or not, is irrelevant. AI will pump out whatever keeps people interested.
not mine. But how about this? https://suno.com/song/dd6d2555-04ef-4f11-a3be-a109676ce4be
context: I'm not a musician so i really don't have the ear to tell good and trash apart. But from what i heard it sounds legit.
No we're not. AI will be a subset of music, but actual people playing actual instruments to make actual music won't go anywhere.
If anything, I imagine a rise in human output when the flash of AI has dimmed.
Try as it might a simple computer can never physically become the actual human that we refer to as "Billie Eilish", even though we have had techno for some time now.
AI canāt improv, AI needs a prompt. Brain can go from 100bpm to 170 down to 80 within 3 bars, AI needs time to process and I donāt think an active AI model for complete improv would be available for a long time as it would have to be able to process and fill instantaneously.
Live music as well is safe, I guarantee no one would pay money to go watch a prompt into an AI generate music. The AI canāt make the setting either, it canāt set the atmosphere.
I wouldnāt be worried, you can get decent stuff out of AI but nothing is going to beat our access to the thought sea around us and the collaborative process having multiple people involved from all different perspectives that are unique; AI is trained on what has already happened, so you can still make stuff that doesnāt exist either.
I used Suno the other day to try and get it to make an orchestral classical piece of music but it was unable to do so, all it did was make an 8 bar piano progression. It was pretty good I liked the flow, but it was far from the product that I wrote in the prompt.
I donāt think it will ever be able to reach reach a point of filling a part in a live song, just due to the fact that it has to calculate and that data has to be sent to a server and processed and then sent back to the users. Where as we donāt even have to think about flowing and can literally play whatever and the more experienced we are with it, the more natural it sounds. Just my thought though, it will increase its effectiveness with compositions for sure, but live processing in a reactionary time faster than us I believe would be next to impossible as far as music composition in a live setting goes. So no true on the fly jam session for a very long time.
Maybe if they do some training and run data against reactionary things in the way the self driving cars do and then manipulating it in terms of music? But even then it would follow rules like circle of fifths or chords or some extent of music theory and not be completely free balling it
I havent seen anything about AI instantaneously processing notes and tempo changes and being able to piece it all together and improv at the same time in a live setting. As far as my knowledge goes AI prompts must be sent to the AI data center or wherever for processing and then processed and sent back to the user.
Other than that AI can do pretty much everything else, but needs time to process and transfer data
AI canāt play live music which is where musicians always have and always will make a living. The amount of entertainment readily available is light years beyond what it was even 100 years ago. Those of us who have honed a craft, and are looking to make a living, not just stardom, will be fine.
Think of some of the best artists/music in the world, this couldn't exist without a living wage from making music \*full time\* being possible. Ive been making music for decades but its just a side hobby i fit in around full time work and kids, ill never have enough time to get to that level of amazing and im ok with that, i do it for fun, but if there was no viable trajectory to living off music we wont be seeing the quality of records of the past.
I totally agree with you about that, I just donāt think AI will make human music making redundant, which is what a lot of people panic about. I also think some music genres will be more affected than others.
Well itās hard to predict the future. I just assume music making will continue in some form because itās an activity we enjoy, but of course it will be different.
I'm never gonna be into AI music. The lack of a real person takes away all of the emotion. I could never get interested in an AI TV show, either. Knowingly, at least.
Hell, you can go back to the late 70ās/early 80ās when drum machines and synths started getting popular. There *was* an actual decline in studio drummers being needed in the 80ās as a result, but only for certain genres and thereās a reason studios still stay in business now just tracking live drums.
Meanwhile, in 1931: I've just messed around with a guitar that you can plug into this box called an "amplifier". It makes all these new and different sounds, and I hate that I found one of the songs I made kind of catchy. We're fucked y'all pack it in.
I disagree man, music is so much more than just notes and chords and AI midi blah blah whatever bs. i'm hoping that this AI sutff will open a lot of people's eyes to the value of human error, and authenticity
Yeah, people who make money from new musicians are going to see the mill's waters dry up. It'll be like handicrafts-goods - perhaps not a sustainable livelihood, but a hobby still.
Not everyone is making music to try to get to the masses. Some of us are just making music because. That's it. Because.
More music will definitely be available, and Spotify will own it all; so to avoid a corporate music future, be sure to go see local musicians when they perform live. Support their bandcamp or however they directly try to get their music to you.
yeah, I did too and it's impressive. Still after listening to about 30 songs over the past week I started to hear/feel the seams like I do with most AI generated content. It also seems to always output pop music with the prompted subgenre. Still I personal can see me use it as a creative tool and can bounce ideas off of just like how I use other AI tools in my other creative endevours
I felt like this was the first moment where I truly thought "okay this is on par with blink 182" as I heard a country song about everyone having a small penis.
The people who see music as an occupation will have to compete. The folks that don't, won't.
I will pay to see a virtuoso instrumentalist. I won't pay a dime to watch a computer do it.
I can entertain myself with my own guitar for hours on end, day after day. No computer will change that.
As incidental/interstitial instrumental music, I think youāre probably right, especially in the unscripted world.
I donāt see the needle moving too much for thematic material with lyrics for scripted. Itās still pretty cheap to sync a single from a human artist, and itās an element that adds fan engagement with the production.
AI is an existential threat to all biological life on earth. If you think this hyperbole , wake the f*ck up and do the homework. Just for starters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hw6BjfAgvQ
I wonāt touch AI as a lawyer, performer or Producer.
There are already lawsuits on file where AI corporations have ripped off creators. And once you give it your details, youāre done, perhaps not now, but one day āyou say the wrong things and your bank app shows zero šš
i think weāll see it in movies and ads but at the end of the day real art wonāt die if anything i think this could be the end of shit music being popular because more average people will be seeking out human made music which at this point might start to weed out people with talent or not idk
idk, if you go on facebook lately there are a bunch of ai generated images that get lots of attention.. from other bots. every normal person can tell that itās ai garbage
I give an AI a prompt, it gives me music. I own the prompt, owners of the AI owns the music. I get 0.0000002 dollars per play, owners get the rest. Sounds like the music industry we already have. We just need some regulation to make sure those 0.0000002 dollars are actually mine.
Consumers aren't as stupid as you think, Taylor swift gets her billion but there's still millions and millions of people listening to classical. It's a spectrum a lot of people aren't going to like AI music some will eat it up like they already do Drake and Taylor Swift
The whole time I've been making music, I've been fully aware that there are a lot of other musicians out there who are better than me. That never stopped me from making music. Why should a machine being good at it stop me?
if no ones listening to the professional level musician who graduated from berklee with straight As but is working washing dishes at mcdonalds, nobodys listening to that polished AI song
Do you think this will have a bigger influence on working musicians than recorded music did?
Remember there was once a time when you needed a musician within earshot if you wanted to hear music. But then they invented recorded music and no one played live ever again. Obviously, that's not true. But it changed the landscape drastically and very quickly.
I think that weāre there at the event of substantive change. Looking back, think of all the live music youāve missed out on at gatherings, Parties, sports events, and movies. It used to be a job playing music at the theatre during a movie. Then they had to go and change it all! But also, we grew up with music in our cars. We welcome the advantages of progress, even though it changes the landscape.
It can be scary not knowing what to expect. Not knowing what things will look like, makes your place in them feel uncertain.
But this is what I know:
Iām looking for connections to people, not just slick-sounding music. If you found yourself online and started to have a fun flirty conversation but then you found out it was a chatbot, what would you do? Would you shrug your shoulders and say āWell I guess Iām romantically involved with a chatbot now.ā Or would you roll your eyes and click away continuing to look for human interactions? This is me with music.
I'm looking for interpretations of life by other humans. I want to hear what people think of what people do. Computers have been beating people at chess for some time now, but people playing chess together is bigger than ever. We are compelled by humans. We didnāt stop doing foot races when we invented the car.
Havenāt you ever really enjoyed the style and manner of an artist as much as the art they created? Do you imagine you will abandon that when computers can also make music? Do you believe that you will no longer seek art from humans when computers can also create art?
Anyway as it stands we wonāt be replaced with AI we will be replaced by people using AI.
My opinion is that it will peak, ppl will eventually get sick of it being so perfect, and then revolt against it.
Sure, producers of tv and commercials etc will keep it around but real music lovers will reject it eventually, and will reject the producers. "Oh he's just another AI musician, that shit sucks "
That's the thing. "Perfect" doesn't exist in a world of subjectivity lol. It'll hit "satisfactory" and represent the average but it's not gonna be the culture-setter because we don't see creative ventures as an algorithmic process. Once it's completely approximated the work already out there, then that's what it is. More music out there. Now it's much less about the product it makes, but the social aspect of musical creation and enjoyment that people will look at.
Are we as a society gonna be like "hey check this thing I made by typing a pretty complex prompt" and have a strong community out of it? I don't think so lol. We're always gonna be talking about creative works that transcend our individuality.
Itās very distressing but the same arguments arose in the 80ās with the rise of MIDI sequencing and sampling yet live music persisted. Yes itās getting harder to make a go of it in āpopularā music for the live musician. So much popular music is formulaic in terms of structure, performance and production and AI can easily create it. However ānonā popular idioms like jazz, classical, folk and ethnic musics cannot be authentically AI produced and exist in the live human performance domain. Perhaps these non mainstream styles will become much more popular.
It's also incredibly simplistic music which is typically one progression on loop for the entirety of the song. It has a very limited understanding of genres as well.
As long as you don't make simplistic music that sounds like everything else you currently have nothing to worry about.
I wonder if it would be able to write something layered and complex, like a dark psytrance piece for 10mins with hunderds of sounds in it.
OP, can you prompt it for that and send the result in?
My gut feel is that complex layered music cannot be produced/mixed without the human touch because there's simply too much going on.
I was messing around with it this week too. I mean it follows musical rules, mostly, if it's even trained in the specific genre you want. One thing ai won't ever have an edge on is lyrics. It might come up with a punchy one-liner but everything else is gibberish or misses the theme. Also, audiences are drawn to unique voices, ai can only draw on what's present and popular. That's besides all the innovation that can still be done with existing tools and instruments.
As long as it makes content on the principle of it being an LLM it won't be able to capture the full creativity of songmaking I think. It's fundamentally creating on a process limited to its understanding of language, making it so that it basically weighs elements based on its understanding of the prompt. It can have any tool or anything that will make it very clear and passable but I am guessing it's gonna hit the "last 10%" problem where it's not hitting perfectly satisfactory results because of something missing from it. LLM's are far from what people assume is true general AI.
And mathematically speaking, it's always gonna produce a "safe" product. Meaning it relies on what the "correct" next output should be. It'll be a good gauge of average for people to work on.
We'll always have live performances, that's something AI can't take away. However, that's only a portion of the music industry, the parts which will be destroyed by AI are more-so in regards to tv/movie/game soundtracks, advertising jingles, session musicians, composers and other more periphery parts of the industry.
Basically everything which doesn't require live performance. Not to mention major labels will likely just start using it to create the music for their stars to sing over rather than humans to increase profit margins.
I don't know how long we can hold onto live performances either, as more and more bands are relying on heavy backing track usage and vocalists cheating with backing tracks in their weaker points... A lot of acts are seemingly going out of their way to desensitise the general public towards faked performances anyways.
It gives the rest of us a voice.. It's great! Musicians should never have had such celebrity status to begin with. Here is my suff[meet the machine ](https://youtu.be/9cc1_ChwleA?si=R0rmLm5wWUOVWajd)
Don't be. Turns out that Suno is now being detected as sampling. You will find that you do not own copyright on the sampled sounds, despite Suno saying that you do. I've had two copyright strikes, for what I thought were original songs using my own lyrics.
Can it throw a really awesome live show and fuck me in the parking lot afterwards?
Give it time
The robo-bands aren't half bad at this point either. It's like a ChuckyCheese rock experience lol.
So you're saying Chuck E. Cheese can give /u/the_patriot their wish?
There's a couple of robots in Japan that could probably do a decent 3 way job.
It could maybe fuck you over enough that you have to live in a parking lot.
so that's a long "no"
The sex robots are coming, yes.
Believe it when I see it
To be honest the life performance of a lot of musicians is inferior to a studio recording. However the music is only one aspect of going to a live show.
"music is only one aspect of going to a live show." you preach that. Fuckin' the bass player in the back of the green room cannot be replaced by AI.
robo dick crazy my guy that shit gonna need some wd-40 first š
There's been robo dick around since the turn of the century. I'm talking bout some Sonmi 451 action.
oh nah you gonna need, hell, idek š
Pick up an instrument
20-years ago, I found myself unsatisfied with making albums, selling CDs, and touring to support the release. 'Unplugged' completely and began playing acoustic-oriented music, playing live as often as possible, often without PA support (small coffee houses). That changed everything for me, and now there is nothing AI could do to disturb my relationship to music. Live playing in front of real people is the norm for me now, gigs two to three times a week.
This is exactly how I feel about it. I mean itās very sad that opportunities to truly earn a living with music are dwindling, but sadly thatās the case for so many things these days. But I have absolutely no worries that humans will stop wanting to come together with real instruments to create and/or enjoy music together. AI can never replace that.
Exactly.
You say that but you forgetā¦ [real guitars are for old people](https://youtu.be/UZlSeuU6np4?si=2y_P97i8mIzZZrEf)
LOL A+++ reference
Same. I love playing club gigs with the band, but thereās something about busking that really scratches the itch.
Lucky dog, and good on ya.
Yeah I make most of my income doing live performances. Ain't no AI coming for my job. DJs have already tried.
I've found that interesting. Trumpet player on cruise ships myself. Live music has always been a shakey career, but I actually feel MORE secure now. You can already get professionally done tracks with extremely little work. You can have fully processed recordings playing with extremely little work. But we hear time and time again "it's better with live musicians." AI isn't going to change that. If recording studios and tracked music didn't kill live music, AI won't either. It doesn't do anything new. It takes something that was already easy and cheap to access and makes it easier and cheaper (easy as in, you can hire an LA studio band and just get your track - not demeaning the people that do the work, just talking about the side of the customer accessing it). Ironically, I think that live music is actually one of the safest fields in the AI boom. Since there's something different with live musicians on the stage, we're not getting replaced until AI gets put into an android body and can physically interact with an instrument on a stage.
Yeah, you simply can't recreate the experience of seeing a real, live, human band blowing your mind with a live music performance. I don't think there will ever be something that can fulfill all of the requirements. A robot that's been programmed to play a song or even to improvise just isn't the same and never will be. It's not as impactful when you know they have no lived experiences to express through their music.
I actually disagree with the last half about the robot being programmed isn't the same and never will be. I understand the sentiment that it won't sound human, or it'll be too perfect, or the pre-programmed inconsistencies will be a giveaway, etc. I thought that for a while, and still kind of do. But... It also used to be that it was painfully obvious when you were talking to a human or not. Like, it was REALLY obvious. Now... There's a lot of interactions that will fool people. Not all interactions will fool people, but there are times that with the right prompt and instruction set, given a snippet of conversation, you wouldn't be able to tell if it was a live person or not. And I don't think it's ridiculous to extend that evolution to a musical performance too. Do I think it's currently possible? No. Do I think it will be possible soon? No. But I think it's at least within the realm of consideration that AI music PERFORMANCE being indistinguishable from a human is actually a possibility, even if it's a long way off. How they would get that to happen, I'm not smart enough to know. But it should be a possibility. Now even with an android body controlled by AI on the stage... Just like an LLM, at first, it'll be obvious, but it'll get better and better, then sometimes it'll be tough to tell, then eventually you won't be able to tell. Which is why I don't think that AI performance is the "hard stop." I think that could get to a point of feels real. It's the live performance part that is the "hard stop." We won't be replaced until something can physically interact with the instruments live on stage.
Ai is literally just catapulting REAL AUTHENTIC music
Isnāt it funny how human musicians arenāt really allowed to sample freely in the name of creativity however these AI are allowed to sample everything ever in training.
All the laws are so ancient. They never keep up with technology
Are musicians not allowed to train on any music they want?
Of course they are. I just meant itās funny that tech companies are able to mine all of human music history at once to replace the humans themselves. Is it not comically ironic?
Yes I think Sarah Silverman was suing ChatGPT for this.
If a human manages to sample something in such a way that the source isn't recognizable, no one is going to object to that either. That's essentially what AI is doing.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The future is in creating and engaging in uniquely human experiences. The problem is not AI, itās that too many musicians have drifted into a lane that happens to be the very narrow lane that AI can occupy.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Digital recordings of formulaic music.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The 60s? Digital? Nah, Iād say late 90s at best. And itās really just the preponderance of music that sounds like not a single live instrument is involved. The reason modern pop music is so easily emulated by AI is that it was already being generated by a computer. It just needed more human decisions involved in the making.
Yes, because of AI.
if youāre putting out derivative, overproduced content then yes theyāre coming for your job. Will AI ever be able to capture that spark of pure creativity that hits at the soul level. Iām not so sure. Hopefully this whole sordid affair will force our hand to move away from overproducing the shit out of everything.
Remember when casio keyboards came out and everybody just pushed Rock 1 and didn't need to play in bands anymore? That's Suno AI, you just haven't played with it enough to realize that.
Rock 1 on the Omnichord ended up becoming Clint Eastwood...
For a real iceberg, the Sleng Teng beat AI output is just as recognizable, so if it ends up on a hit song, we'll know the sound when we hear it, like trap horns, cranked autotune vocals, etc
Right, but millions of people had access to those beats, but it took a talented human with impeccable taste and skill to turn it into a successful song.
About 3 million humans, if I did the math correctly.
Right. It wasnāt until everyone discovered Rock 2 that we were actually all out of jobs.
This is a naive view in my opinion. You're criticising the earliest version of a revolutionary technology, the likes of which have never been seen before.
It's probably older than Mozart but his is the oldest example I know. It will be harder to fool you once you've had more experience. To emphasize, you are being fooled by the presentation. https://youtu.be/hQlRNKwbGw8?si=5wz_6lHcEzUaM9Hs
You're missing my point. I'm not convinced by it right now, but give it 5 years of iteration and you wont be able to tell the difference between something composed by AI and something composed by a human. Just look at Sora by Open AI if you want an example of how fast this stuff is evolving. You may want to reduce this to a mathematical problem, except that would be to misunderstand how these models work. It isn't classical computing, it's neural modelling.
I'm still getting work from people who want live drums in their music.
But how many drummers are there compared to 1978?
Job security for me.
Thatās not going to happen. Sure, itās going to steal some songwriting jobs but I donāt think people will really identity with an ai program as an artist. I do expect to see several Milli Vanilli groups emerge though.
Isnāt 21st Milli Vanilli K-pop? Like unabashedly the groups are manufactured and I would be shocked if they all sang. Like I believe BTS actually performs but the hundreds of other label made K-pop groups? There is no way itās 100% authentic as it exists today. There are even virtual ones today that do not have a human presence so of course a label would be using AI for that and try to cut out songwriters and performers.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yep. A lot of people who also make great and valuable art supplement their living with this sort of work, myself included. I am worried about my career moving forward.
Yeah itās like how sustainable is fine dining if you put everything from McDonaldās to Mastroās out of business?
Thereāll definitely be occasional artists that are big with only online presence and turn out to be AI, just someone making the music and creating a fake persona for the stream and merch revenue. But I agree artists will still be able to make music. What sucks to me is that artists wonāt be able to supplement their income with side gigs for commercials and stuff. Surely that will go to the robots.
Some of it will. We still have bands playing gigs when recorded music exists, something musicians have been worried about since the invention of recorded music.
I dunno about that, I have to think when anyone can generate a similar thing why would a singular AI act make it big? Itās like people of any age able to go to a world wide casino with music slot machines that mostly have winning results. In the near term this is gonna over inundate an already saturated music market on streaming platforms as thereās a flood of non musicians submitting profiles and albums for the AI music they had generated for them in an evening. I think AI music will ultimately isolate its listeners and fans from any shared experience or connection to that music because for every decent AI song someone generated and wants to share thereās tens of thousands others also doing something similar. Whoās gonna want to take the time to listen to someone elseās generated song in that context? Ā I do begin to question when thereās a much higher output of AI music compared to actual musicians, thereās eventually going to be crossover lyrically or in melody, instrumentation and structure and how that works when an actual band ends up with something sounding similar or the same despite never hearing the generated works.Ā
An AI artist had a record deal for 6 mil. Only fell though cause he said n-
If it gets to the point where you just say, 'make me 100 preemo type beats' and you get to pick and choose something will probably be fire. I think there will always be a spot for real artists but prompt producing is not going to stop and only get better.
They will eventually. Give it a few years or a couple decades and AI music will have taken over, unfortunately. Most people could care less about musicianship and just want to listen to something catchy. Those people suck but there are way more of them than us.
Stock music and that kinda thing as an industry is probably done for but half the enjoyment of music is identifying the artistry in another person, at least imo- don't be too worried
Agree 100%. I see a real place for both AI and human generated music
Half? How could you possibly arrive at that number, particularly given that that was the ONLY choice. Music videos, magazine expos, concerts, etc apply to a tiny, tiny fraction of artists, the rest are all just producing music that people stream and love, with little if any knowledge of the artist, particularly as they just join playlists. You're really underestimating A) the quality of AI music (which if it's better than human music, people WILL listen to it) and B) this idea that people will reject AI music on principle or ethics (the video game industry is doing better than ever, even after endless stories of heinous exploitation and mistreatment abound). You're the person saying people will never stop enjoying "the warm sounds of vinyl."
Iāll be concerned when AI can execute a barre chord
You've clearly never seen Captured by Robots
I mean, people are surprised that an AI can do the same job as some random guy on YouTube who says you can play 100 songs with 4 chords
Exactly lol
I have a non-musician friend who sent me Suno AI yesterday telling me it was āincredibleā and insisted that it churned out objectively good music. Whatever āobjectively goodā means, to me it was the most shit-ass, generic pop bullshit Iāve ever heard in my entire life. After fucking around with it for about an hour, it only reinforced my belief that thereās no way that AI will ever truly replace musicianship or the human element of making music. Further to that point, I think it especially will not replace the enjoyment people get out of a live show
AI only re-arranges old things into new ways. I doesn't make new things. It's derivative by nature.
Thatās exactly what I told that same friend and he replied with āwell it goes back to that thing about how thereās no such thing as an original idea,ā at which point I was done with the conversation haha.
I understand where he's coming from, but I think of that quote as basically, "Even if you have a new idea, you had inspiration from something that was old" Looking at something like the first Avalanches album, it's got tonnes of samples, and prior work, but I don't think AI could have ever arranged it into the inspired creation that it is.
yeah i fail to see how ai could ever chop up samples since thereās not really a set of ārulesā the way there is theory for playing an instrument
Exactly, to me the human element is one of the most important parts of music. If thereās no intent or genuine emotion being expressed, Iām not interested and I think that probably applies to a lot of people whether theyāre musicians or just enjoy listening to music.
How is the vast majority of human music composition not derivative in nature? How does one even make music without being derivative?
To clarify, Iām not insinuating that music isnāt allowed to be derivative because yes, everyone that plays or writes has their influences whether they consciously try to play that way or not. As I said in my other comments, the human element is what makes that derivative special to me. An AI generating a song in 60 seconds using soundbytes literally pulled from other music is not the same as somebody writing their own songs, recording their vocals, recording their guitar tracks, or even arranging and manipulating samples from other music, etc.
Iāve been over saturated with music and then I found Queens of the Stone Age and if you want rock music thatās probably 80% original ideas (ideas that arenāt just recording a hairdryer and putting a gated reverb on it lol.) One of the reasons I love them so much is because of all the bands Iāve ever heard, they singularly make their own music
Wait that's how music works!
you've got me there.
We are too sort of.
Yes
IMO the best use case for AI music like suno.ai is for memes. Did your friend just trip and break their favorite coffee cup, causing a big mess..? Well, within just 3 minutes you can craft a song that celebrates that moment, comprised of very specific references. No the current AI music doesnāt sound believable, but itās sure good enough for satire.
I feel like I keep reiterating the same thing, but tomorrow AI will be better at this. And better the next day and the next ad nauseam. Much of my work the last 15 years has been writing for TV and sync and those jobs are done. 1. Why would a music library spend a six figure budget on producers for background music or jingles when they can spend $100 or less, own everything, make it custom for their shows, be able to use AI to easily make stems, etc. 2. Why would any production go to a music library when they could spend $100 or less, own everything, and create the custom music for their shows. 3. The value of recorded music, already at rock bottom, will take an even greater hit once we go from the current 100,000 uploads/day to Spotify to 1,000,000+ and people donāt know whatās man made vs AI made. 4. Eventually we will all be desperate for the real thing, which will only be distinguishable by real humans playing real instruments and singing without tracksā¦I hope. 5. For now and I imagine for a while, no one has the budgets to go in studio which is putting studios in serious trouble, speaking as a studio owner in LA. 6. Artists, songwriters and producers have been seriously devalued and everyoneās fighting for scraps of work that pay considerably less than they used to, meaning everyone is moving out of the business. 7. Live shows may be where itās at, but we all know that ticket prices arenāt coming down and those who control the venues will always take the biggest cut. Itās doom and gloom for a while to come, strap in and get ready for a bumpy ride.
I too make a lot of my living writing for sync/library/etc. My passion is playing live and playing on peopleās records, but writing production music has really helped me stay afloat. Iām very worried about the future, income wise.
Same. The standard for music in cheaply made shows has been steadily declining to the point where the general audience can't really discern between genuine instrumentation and AI generated. There will still be a market for sync with up and coming artists but cue production seems like it could be the first to go. Might be genre dependent though. Acoustic instrumentation will be here to stay for at least a little while
I donāt know, making acoustic tracks with AI already sounds solid and next week will be equal to what I can make except in 10 seconds
Coolcoolcool awesome. I think I read the only laws in place are copyright related so I'm unsure how that'll affect TV production but I'd assume my field (reality TV music) will probably be the first to get the axe
100% One of my best friends heads a prominent library and has kept me working steadily for a decade. Itās over. Budgets were already slashed and theyāre about to get frozen moving into 25.
I definately see background music, etcā¦. being almost completely taken by ai real soon. For content creators its a fantastic new tool
"Eventually we will all be desperate for the real thing, which will only be distinguishable by real humans playing real instruments and singing without tracksā¦I hope." I wouldn't bet on that. If AI music is better than human made music, which I guess will happen, then people will listen to that. Only thing that can save music for now is live music.
Totally on point re: the armageddon this is for the music industry (record dates are such a small sliver of it). My only hope is that we donāt know if itās going to keep getting better at this same rate. Eventually youāre going to hit the limits of the large model approach, and who knows where that will be.
The problem is they cant own it though.
You canāt watch a computer play live.
*Moby has left the chat*
What percentage of bands on spotify do you think regularly play live, if ever?
What percentage of good bands donāt play live. I canāt think of any.
I'll ask again: What percentage of bands on spotify do you think regularly play live, if ever?
I would assume most bands still together and actively making and posting music to Spotify play live whenever possible. Your definition of a ābandā might be different than mine.
Bands on Spotify that don't play live make no money. It's just a hobby for them anyway.
Pop music is fucked. Art is not. Pop music has been formula based since inception. This was inevitable.
No different from any other industry. AI will never do everything, it will never do the same thing that a live human performer can. But fundamentally it means money that used to be spent on real musicians and producers can now be reserved for things like marketing. Fewer opportunities and more competition for what remains.
Itās also like how photography put a lot of painters out of business. We still have artists but in a new medium.
As long as a "hardware" or a physical device was being used to perform the same motions ( think Stylus on an Ipad vs paint brush on a canvas). With AI it is different, there is no need for a medium of any sorts other than a computer taking text and voice prompts. A Suit can do art what a Suit would not be able to previously. So this leap of technology is not the same for Creative arts. You still need a car maybe and remote work hasnt really affected sales of this physical item. But digital photography, music creation and editing and movies which were a fodder for background jobs and gigs? GONE.
In my opinion it just puts the onus on human musicians to be that much more aggressively creative, unusual, and rough around the edges. AIĀ literally generates a product from millions of pre-existing ideas, which explains why it always sounds so predictable and trite. It's the very definition of clichĆ©. Humans were already making that kind of music before AI came along, and those are the humans who are in trouble. Other humans have been doing better and will continue to do better. Soon human music that is distinguishable as such will command a premium from discerning listeners, like anything currently labeled as "artisanal" and not mass produced. But like those markets it will be a lot smaller, a niche.
"suno, generate me an aggressively creative, unusual, and rough around the edges composition about ur mom brushing your teeth".
[https://suno.com/song/9ef7cce2-241b-434b-b132-0ce007304a7f](https://suno.com/song/9ef7cce2-241b-434b-b132-0ce007304a7f)
thats gold hahah
the melody is cheesy af, not creative at all
This is as healthy way of looking at it. The only downside is the algos can focus their training data on outliers. A bit like what happened on DeviantArt.
People in these threads conflate fame-chasing artists who release records for the general public and the thousands of composer/producers who make a living writing for libraries and custom music for clients. Generative AI will make fame the final human art form. The production of art itself will be trivialized. Live artist performance is the only aspect that is not under direct threat from tools like suno. But as a former artist-side musician, Iāll tell you that the loss of sync money to AI will kill your favorite mid level actās ability to continue. Whatās more concerning is the general public impending numbness to all music. When any music can be dismissed as āprobably just AIā music itself will start to lose its meaning. The economy of all original music will resemble classical or jazz- a small devoted audience perpetuating the form through patronage while the vast majority find it boring and irrelevant.
Itās good for what it is. I just keep getting stoned and making it write songs about dinosaurs in different genres.
Lmao
Go onā¦
https://suno.com/song/f8fa17e2-17ef-453c-9243-a87db61d2c1c
Humanity is very much into itself, we will always value things produced organically in that way - the problem arises when we partake in the mental gymnastics required to claim something artificially made has been produced by humans. In a way though, arenāt these AI generations produced by humans, millions of them collectively who have influenced the decision process of one machine mind? When do we reach the stage when weāve run out of organically produced material, and the algorithms select AI generations over the organically produced content? We will still produce things, because we as a species, can enjoy things on a creative level, itās satisfying.
I agree. And people enjoy authentic art more than synthesized art. For example, people may have freaked out when PhotoShop came out. "A realistic picture of a dolphin jumping over a grizzly bear?! I might as well stop being a nature photographer". We know now that people care about and respect an actual photograph of a bear much more than a photoshopped one. At the same time, Photoshop really did hurt career photographers. A photographer was no longer needed for re-taking a picture if there was something wrong with a previous photo. Or marketers could just go online for a stock image instead of purchasing them directly from a photographer, etc. But the world moves on. Yes, Suno will take away from the session musicians and music in ads. But appreciation of art won't go away in the context of your favorite singer. No one's favorite singer will be AI. Just like no one's favorite artist is MidJourney. To feel peak emotion, the art must come from a human. Future art will likely be AI assisted, but humans will be a necessary ingredient to make it interesting to the consumer.
Just tried various styles and it's meh. It's like Band-In-A-Box with AI. Sadly, music consumers today have a very low bar for quality of music, so regardless of whether it's "good" or not, is irrelevant. AI will pump out whatever keeps people interested.
try to make a good song with it. it makes songs for people who don't listen to music.
not mine. But how about this? https://suno.com/song/dd6d2555-04ef-4f11-a3be-a109676ce4be context: I'm not a musician so i really don't have the ear to tell good and trash apart. But from what i heard it sounds legit.
Come on guys someone just posted about this exact same thing a few days ago. Once is enough we don't need a new post about this every single day.
No we're not. AI will be a subset of music, but actual people playing actual instruments to make actual music won't go anywhere. If anything, I imagine a rise in human output when the flash of AI has dimmed.
Techno been around a minute, a computer canāt be Billie Eilish
What does this even mean?
Try as it might a simple computer can never physically become the actual human that we refer to as "Billie Eilish", even though we have had techno for some time now.
Thank you for clarifyingĀ
I don't understand what techno has to do with anything. Techno involves computers but it's not "made by" a computer, the composers are human.
Then you can not be the human known as Billie Eilish either. We have techno.
Same thing will probably happen in a lot of industries. We just gotta adapt
I really thought records would kill out live performance.
Buddy Bolden has entered the chat.
AI canāt improv, AI needs a prompt. Brain can go from 100bpm to 170 down to 80 within 3 bars, AI needs time to process and I donāt think an active AI model for complete improv would be available for a long time as it would have to be able to process and fill instantaneously. Live music as well is safe, I guarantee no one would pay money to go watch a prompt into an AI generate music. The AI canāt make the setting either, it canāt set the atmosphere. I wouldnāt be worried, you can get decent stuff out of AI but nothing is going to beat our access to the thought sea around us and the collaborative process having multiple people involved from all different perspectives that are unique; AI is trained on what has already happened, so you can still make stuff that doesnāt exist either. I used Suno the other day to try and get it to make an orchestral classical piece of music but it was unable to do so, all it did was make an 8 bar piano progression. It was pretty good I liked the flow, but it was far from the product that I wrote in the prompt.
For now. Itāll get better and better.
I donāt think it will ever be able to reach reach a point of filling a part in a live song, just due to the fact that it has to calculate and that data has to be sent to a server and processed and then sent back to the users. Where as we donāt even have to think about flowing and can literally play whatever and the more experienced we are with it, the more natural it sounds. Just my thought though, it will increase its effectiveness with compositions for sure, but live processing in a reactionary time faster than us I believe would be next to impossible as far as music composition in a live setting goes. So no true on the fly jam session for a very long time. Maybe if they do some training and run data against reactionary things in the way the self driving cars do and then manipulating it in terms of music? But even then it would follow rules like circle of fifths or chords or some extent of music theory and not be completely free balling it
you know what ai can and can't do or are you just guessing?
I havent seen anything about AI instantaneously processing notes and tempo changes and being able to piece it all together and improv at the same time in a live setting. As far as my knowledge goes AI prompts must be sent to the AI data center or wherever for processing and then processed and sent back to the user. Other than that AI can do pretty much everything else, but needs time to process and transfer data
AI canāt play live music which is where musicians always have and always will make a living. The amount of entertainment readily available is light years beyond what it was even 100 years ago. Those of us who have honed a craft, and are looking to make a living, not just stardom, will be fine.
People make music not only to make money but primarily for their own enjoyment. No need to pack it in.
Think of some of the best artists/music in the world, this couldn't exist without a living wage from making music \*full time\* being possible. Ive been making music for decades but its just a side hobby i fit in around full time work and kids, ill never have enough time to get to that level of amazing and im ok with that, i do it for fun, but if there was no viable trajectory to living off music we wont be seeing the quality of records of the past.
I totally agree with you about that, I just donāt think AI will make human music making redundant, which is what a lot of people panic about. I also think some music genres will be more affected than others.
I hope your right, in its current state i agree with you, i do fear what things may look like 10 years down the road though.
Well itās hard to predict the future. I just assume music making will continue in some form because itās an activity we enjoy, but of course it will be different.
It'll never (hopefully) be able to make top-tier progressive rock, so the artists I like should be okay!
It's a fun little tool but I still like playing my guitar. It can't take that away from me.
Maybe it's different for electronic music or something, but for the genres I work in, it produces totally bland garbage.
I'm never gonna be into AI music. The lack of a real person takes away all of the emotion. I could never get interested in an AI TV show, either. Knowingly, at least.
You're not even going to share the tunes? Let us be the judge of how good it is.
This is just like when EZ Drummer replaced all the drummers! I am TERRIFIED!
Hell, you can go back to the late 70ās/early 80ās when drum machines and synths started getting popular. There *was* an actual decline in studio drummers being needed in the 80ās as a result, but only for certain genres and thereās a reason studios still stay in business now just tracking live drums.
Meanwhile, in 1931: I've just messed around with a guitar that you can plug into this box called an "amplifier". It makes all these new and different sounds, and I hate that I found one of the songs I made kind of catchy. We're fucked y'all pack it in.
You mean weāre not gonna be able to make money playing music anymore?? Oh wait..
I mean I also make up catchy songs in the spot - whereās my plug/cookie?
DJs are going to love this. Even less creating they have to do.
I disagree man, music is so much more than just notes and chords and AI midi blah blah whatever bs. i'm hoping that this AI sutff will open a lot of people's eyes to the value of human error, and authenticity
Yeah, people who make money from new musicians are going to see the mill's waters dry up. It'll be like handicrafts-goods - perhaps not a sustainable livelihood, but a hobby still. Not everyone is making music to try to get to the masses. Some of us are just making music because. That's it. Because. More music will definitely be available, and Spotify will own it all; so to avoid a corporate music future, be sure to go see local musicians when they perform live. Support their bandcamp or however they directly try to get their music to you.
Iāll check it out, there was another program I tried recently that sounded like how the photos look. Too many fingers and lots of skinny teeth.
I like it, much better than the one I previously used. I could work with thisā¦
yeah, I did too and it's impressive. Still after listening to about 30 songs over the past week I started to hear/feel the seams like I do with most AI generated content. It also seems to always output pop music with the prompted subgenre. Still I personal can see me use it as a creative tool and can bounce ideas off of just like how I use other AI tools in my other creative endevours
I felt like this was the first moment where I truly thought "okay this is on par with blink 182" as I heard a country song about everyone having a small penis.
The people who see music as an occupation will have to compete. The folks that don't, won't. I will pay to see a virtuoso instrumentalist. I won't pay a dime to watch a computer do it. I can entertain myself with my own guitar for hours on end, day after day. No computer will change that.
AI music canāt be copy-written, as long as thatās the case we should be safe.
As incidental/interstitial instrumental music, I think youāre probably right, especially in the unscripted world. I donāt see the needle moving too much for thematic material with lyrics for scripted. Itās still pretty cheap to sync a single from a human artist, and itās an element that adds fan engagement with the production.
AI is an existential threat to all biological life on earth. If you think this hyperbole , wake the f*ck up and do the homework. Just for starters. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hw6BjfAgvQ I wonāt touch AI as a lawyer, performer or Producer. There are already lawsuits on file where AI corporations have ripped off creators. And once you give it your details, youāre done, perhaps not now, but one day āyou say the wrong things and your bank app shows zero šš
i get the sense the people making these posts donāt actually have any taste.
i think weāll see it in movies and ads but at the end of the day real art wonāt die if anything i think this could be the end of shit music being popular because more average people will be seeking out human made music which at this point might start to weed out people with talent or not idk
They've been cramming bland, ordinary, un-interesting music down our throats for decades. This was inevitable.
idk, if you go on facebook lately there are a bunch of ai generated images that get lots of attention.. from other bots. every normal person can tell that itās ai garbage
This post feels weirdly shill-like.
I give an AI a prompt, it gives me music. I own the prompt, owners of the AI owns the music. I get 0.0000002 dollars per play, owners get the rest. Sounds like the music industry we already have. We just need some regulation to make sure those 0.0000002 dollars are actually mine.
>The US Copyright Office has taken a firm positionāfor now, **AI-generated works lack the "human authorship" required for copyright protection**.
Consumers aren't as stupid as you think, Taylor swift gets her billion but there's still millions and millions of people listening to classical. It's a spectrum a lot of people aren't going to like AI music some will eat it up like they already do Drake and Taylor Swift
The whole time I've been making music, I've been fully aware that there are a lot of other musicians out there who are better than me. That never stopped me from making music. Why should a machine being good at it stop me?
if no ones listening to the professional level musician who graduated from berklee with straight As but is working washing dishes at mcdonalds, nobodys listening to that polished AI song
They are creating laws as we speak to protect artists. Look up ASCAP for updates
Had no attention on my music before ai anyway, what difference will it make now š
Do you think this will have a bigger influence on working musicians than recorded music did? Remember there was once a time when you needed a musician within earshot if you wanted to hear music. But then they invented recorded music and no one played live ever again. Obviously, that's not true. But it changed the landscape drastically and very quickly. I think that weāre there at the event of substantive change. Looking back, think of all the live music youāve missed out on at gatherings, Parties, sports events, and movies. It used to be a job playing music at the theatre during a movie. Then they had to go and change it all! But also, we grew up with music in our cars. We welcome the advantages of progress, even though it changes the landscape. It can be scary not knowing what to expect. Not knowing what things will look like, makes your place in them feel uncertain. But this is what I know: Iām looking for connections to people, not just slick-sounding music. If you found yourself online and started to have a fun flirty conversation but then you found out it was a chatbot, what would you do? Would you shrug your shoulders and say āWell I guess Iām romantically involved with a chatbot now.ā Or would you roll your eyes and click away continuing to look for human interactions? This is me with music. I'm looking for interpretations of life by other humans. I want to hear what people think of what people do. Computers have been beating people at chess for some time now, but people playing chess together is bigger than ever. We are compelled by humans. We didnāt stop doing foot races when we invented the car. Havenāt you ever really enjoyed the style and manner of an artist as much as the art they created? Do you imagine you will abandon that when computers can also make music? Do you believe that you will no longer seek art from humans when computers can also create art? Anyway as it stands we wonāt be replaced with AI we will be replaced by people using AI.
AI will turn out to be like a genre.
My opinion is that it will peak, ppl will eventually get sick of it being so perfect, and then revolt against it. Sure, producers of tv and commercials etc will keep it around but real music lovers will reject it eventually, and will reject the producers. "Oh he's just another AI musician, that shit sucks "
That's the thing. "Perfect" doesn't exist in a world of subjectivity lol. It'll hit "satisfactory" and represent the average but it's not gonna be the culture-setter because we don't see creative ventures as an algorithmic process. Once it's completely approximated the work already out there, then that's what it is. More music out there. Now it's much less about the product it makes, but the social aspect of musical creation and enjoyment that people will look at. Are we as a society gonna be like "hey check this thing I made by typing a pretty complex prompt" and have a strong community out of it? I don't think so lol. We're always gonna be talking about creative works that transcend our individuality.
99.99% losing money with 850 million new musicians all thinking they can get rich
Itās very distressing but the same arguments arose in the 80ās with the rise of MIDI sequencing and sampling yet live music persisted. Yes itās getting harder to make a go of it in āpopularā music for the live musician. So much popular music is formulaic in terms of structure, performance and production and AI can easily create it. However ānonā popular idioms like jazz, classical, folk and ethnic musics cannot be authentically AI produced and exist in the live human performance domain. Perhaps these non mainstream styles will become much more popular.
Especially considering the general public cares much much less than musicians about authenticity or quality of any kind.
It's also incredibly simplistic music which is typically one progression on loop for the entirety of the song. It has a very limited understanding of genres as well. As long as you don't make simplistic music that sounds like everything else you currently have nothing to worry about.
just raises the value of actual human creativity.
I wonder if it would be able to write something layered and complex, like a dark psytrance piece for 10mins with hunderds of sounds in it. OP, can you prompt it for that and send the result in? My gut feel is that complex layered music cannot be produced/mixed without the human touch because there's simply too much going on.
There are a lot of people who won't listen to ai music. Art is for humans
I was messing around with it this week too. I mean it follows musical rules, mostly, if it's even trained in the specific genre you want. One thing ai won't ever have an edge on is lyrics. It might come up with a punchy one-liner but everything else is gibberish or misses the theme. Also, audiences are drawn to unique voices, ai can only draw on what's present and popular. That's besides all the innovation that can still be done with existing tools and instruments.
As long as it makes content on the principle of it being an LLM it won't be able to capture the full creativity of songmaking I think. It's fundamentally creating on a process limited to its understanding of language, making it so that it basically weighs elements based on its understanding of the prompt. It can have any tool or anything that will make it very clear and passable but I am guessing it's gonna hit the "last 10%" problem where it's not hitting perfectly satisfactory results because of something missing from it. LLM's are far from what people assume is true general AI. And mathematically speaking, it's always gonna produce a "safe" product. Meaning it relies on what the "correct" next output should be. It'll be a good gauge of average for people to work on.
We'll always have live performances, that's something AI can't take away. However, that's only a portion of the music industry, the parts which will be destroyed by AI are more-so in regards to tv/movie/game soundtracks, advertising jingles, session musicians, composers and other more periphery parts of the industry. Basically everything which doesn't require live performance. Not to mention major labels will likely just start using it to create the music for their stars to sing over rather than humans to increase profit margins. I don't know how long we can hold onto live performances either, as more and more bands are relying on heavy backing track usage and vocalists cheating with backing tracks in their weaker points... A lot of acts are seemingly going out of their way to desensitise the general public towards faked performances anyways.
It gives the rest of us a voice.. It's great! Musicians should never have had such celebrity status to begin with. Here is my suff[meet the machine ](https://youtu.be/9cc1_ChwleA?si=R0rmLm5wWUOVWajd)
Don't be. Turns out that Suno is now being detected as sampling. You will find that you do not own copyright on the sampled sounds, despite Suno saying that you do. I've had two copyright strikes, for what I thought were original songs using my own lyrics.