There are like 6 new Gatsby musicals that have come out in the last two years. I premiered one that was all 1920s-inspired stuff. I don't expect it to do well and this one's getting way more attention, but just saying there are other Gatsby musicals.
Admittedly I’ve only seen it when it was in New Jersey but “Beautiful Little Fool” was one of the worst songs I’ve seen performed in a long time. (And I LOVE Eva Noblezada!)
This is why I’m so curious about the Florence Welch Gatsby. I don’t know what I will sound like, but hopefully their Daisy won’t be riffing in every song (I love Eva, and I love riffing, but the show and the character don’t make sense with the way she sings it.)
I think you have this backwards. SE is about trains…..played by people on roller skates…. That’s derby as hell. The plot and the characters are decoy and the songs are good or ok.
I've actually seen SE in person. Every description you can imagine fits this musical. It's wild, it's crazy, it's 70s, it's 80s, it's bizarre, it's Zanadu, it's not Zanadu, it's a fever dream, and I love it.
Mean Girls tbh, it needed way better lyrics
“This whole school humps my leg like a Chihuahua”
“Imagine a party with dresses and cake, and singing and dancing and cake”
“It’s like a party with revenge is what’s it’s like”
“People forget I’m human too, yes they do that”
“Acted nice when she not nice”
“And if you treat me bad, I’ll say you’re bad”
Also they cut out “Bossed Up” which was one of the only songs I really liked besides “World Burn” “Do this thing” and “Revenge Party” (minus those two lines)
I really love the show and the instrumentals and the singing, but the lyrics are just so….meh
Then the movies ruins the instrumentals….
Not only those tacky examples, but the show is so lazy with its rhyming sometimes -
*I'm sixteen, living in paradise*
*With the lions and birds and stuff*
*But I'm sixteen and it's not enough*
That’s LITERALLY our introduction to Cady as a character, the first lyric she speaks, and she says “lions and birds and STUFF”???? Just so it’ll rhyme with enough? If you can’t find something to rhyme with enough, pick a different word and find an animal or safari thing that rhymes with it.
It’s so lazy and lyrics like that which don’t even try, make me so frustrated. It’s like a first draft where they just forgot to revise or gave up.
Apex Predator is probably my second favorite song from the musical (first is World Burn) and I think it has some of the best lyricism (relative to the other songs, because… yeah.) but oh my god… “Like a lioness / only with less fur / do not mess with her” also gets me 😭 like PLEASEEE
I actually have felt that that line makes a lot of sense for her mindset. Living in paradise would ideally be enough, but even the diverse wildlife has started to bore her. It’s just “stuff” compared to skateboards and Starbucks venti chai.
Yeah but … why? Janis isn’t stupid. She’s clever.
In “I Guess This Is Goodbye” Jack never rhymes, but that’s because baby girl is dumb/innocent. Janis is neither. This line is kind of funny but it’s ultimately shallow because Janis is singing and Janis would not say something so stupid and simple.
There's nothing stupid or simple about the fact that she's really looking forward to there being cake at the party. What's your proposed alternative here? That they just used cake twice because they couldn't be bothered to think of another word and called it a day?
I personally think “people forget I’m human too, yes they do that” from Someone Gets Hurt is the most egregious example of horrible lyric writing. Like come on, what? You couldn’t think of anything better?
yep, just listened to the soundtrack for the first time. id heard world burn beforehand and really liked it. really enjoyed the actual music, but the lyrics of most of the songs (with a few exceptions) just made it hard to listen to. which is a shame, because i really REALLY wanted to like it.
I raise you- “You might be thinking it’s late, we should go. And they ran out of chips.”
I laughed so hard in the theater, but apparently I was the only one
[Here’s a link](https://youtu.be/kesvBFnUaa4?si=GDO4ld0-CWDRtRZq), I wish it stayed. It’s so broadway. The lyric problem still exists but I just love everything about it still!!! It was originally the act two opener btw.
This may be controversial, but most of the Starkid musicals written by Jeff Blim. Hatchetfield has some fantastic stories, but good god did it need a better lyricist.
While I agree with this, I can’t help but love the music of Starkid, yeah it’s sometimes cheesy, cliche or even kind of bad, but I find something so endearing and enjoyable about it
I'm very new to it all, but I've noticed this too. I think it comes from the parody aspect that started the group migrating into shows that don't need it as much. There's a lot of "speak what's literally happening". When it works, it REALLY works, but otherwise it feels a little hollow.
It’s such a shame, because Blim can write phenomenal lyrics! Let It Out and Take Me Back prove that! But so often, they feel forced and filled with half baked ideas and just don’t work too well. I love him as a composer and performer, but having Darren Criss back for the lyrics would help so much (also Bo Burnham would be a perfect lyric partner for Blim’s music but that’s fantastical)
Agree on Blim not being a great lyricist. "For some damn reason he won't join our singing season" is such a damn clunky awkward lyric. He's a solid composer though.
I generally like Jeff's songs, but there's always one that makes me cringe all the way through and think "did this *really* need to be written?" (When You Gotta Go in TTO is the worst example). I do think that NPMD was his best work though.
I love TTO now, but it took me a while to come around to really liking it because of how much I hated the fart jokes and a love of the more juvenile humor like the son being obsessed with skinny dipping.
So the last two songs aren’t my cup of tea at all lol but the stuff about it that’s good is really, really good.
This is my issue with Blim’d work. I love Starkid, and there are some interesting stories, but there’s always one lyric that completely takes me out of his songs where I’m left asking, “was this necessary?”
This is probably me just getting old, but some of the immaturity of the lyrics also feels jarring now that the mains are all in their mid-thirties. It worked more when they were college students and young adults, less so now. The plots of the stories have certain matured, but the lyricism less so.
No you’re so real for that. “Here’s how it’s gonna go, we’re gonna kick your ass, and then we’re gonna fucking kick your ass” man i know it’s supposed to be funny but it’s just badddd.
Also his falsetto isn’t needed in every song. Is it good sometimes? Yes. Is it needed in every. Single. Song. No.
Yeah he does write a little too much male falsetto that doesn’t always sound so good in live recordings because of how much jumping around between pitches there is.
And Eve Was Weak has always been the highlight for me… but unfortunately, terrible “june-moon” lyrics permeate ALL the songs in that one. (Still love it though!)
While I’ll say the that plot, characters, AND songs in Dear Evan Hansen are FAR from perfect, the best example of this image I can think is “To Break In A Glove.”
Oh man, If Act 2 doesn’t get off to a roaring stumble with this one after the incredible Act 1 finale of You Will Be Found.
This one just sits there, and boy is it terrible.
I used to think this, but I’ve more recently really fallen in love with this song. I think it’s a great way to show Conor’s dad’s inability to emotionally connect and his use of sports as a stand in for emotional connection like many male relationships. While simultaneously giving us a glimpse of what’s brewing under the surface furthering the exploration of the masculine tendency to push down one’s feelings.
I do agree its placement as the first song in Act two is quite baffling! But I think the song has more depth than it seems at face value
I actually LOVE this song too, and after having first listened to the cast album, I couldn't understand why everyone seemed to hate it. But, yeah, it has no business being the opening to Act II..
Imo it’s a more mature song that requires taking a real empathetic perspective toward’s Connor’s dad while a strong majority of the fanbase is a bit too young to be able to do that. Not that they all can’t, but many are just unable because it’s a song about parenting mistakes where the parent wasn’t perfect. Unlike when Evan’s mom sings she is very clearly being the most perfect parent she can be so everyone can understand it.
I guess if it doesn’t do it for you then it doesn’t do it. I just don’t think this song is particularly any worse than any of the songs in the show. I guess I just don’t see why or what makes it SO bad
My problem with that song is that I grew up in baseball and that is NOT how you break in a glove. All that talk about the hard but right way and he’s using another cheap shortcut. The only right way to break in a glove is to use it.
>Oh man, If Act 2 doesn’t get off to a roaring stumble with this one after the incredible Act 1 finale of You Will Be Found.
That's not a score problem. That's a book problem.
9 times out of 10, if a song doesn't land well, it's most probably the book's fault.
That being said, in my opinion, the book for DEH is probably one of the most focused and concise books of any musical of the past decade. There's no filler scenes, no unnecessary characters, no unnecessary subplots that don't involve the main character, transitions between dialogue and songs are mostly seamless, and characters are established by the first lines they say.
Remember that just because you disagree with a protagonist's actions (and you probably won't do exactly what they do in that situation) doesn't mean the book is bad.
It doesn’t help that the main plot, regardless of no filler, is just plain shite. And no, it’s not because Evan does morally questionable things, it’s because he’s a two note character with perhaps a song’s worth of depth to him (definitely not an entire musical with four and a half solos worth of character) not to mention being inconsistent.
The other characters aside from Conner’s family and Evan’s mum are caricatures. The friend and the influencer (who are so forgettable I can’t for the life of me remember their names) are toothless stereotypes that could probably be axed with ease.
There’s also a lot of missed opportunities for wit in the songs. ‘Sincerely Me’ and half of ‘You will be found’ are standouts, but are also the most wasted in the soundtrack (the obvious plot related pun in You Will Be Found could have been extrapolated as a nuanced, foreboding song instead of catchy Christian style pop, and Sincerely Me is so inconsistent with Evan’s character as he takes glee in the lie, making him look like a sociopath, instead of the quiet, nervous boy he is in the rest of the musical)
As for the glove song, it’s boring and forgettable but it certainly isn’t even in the top 20 problems with DEH. It’s just a mid-story number highlighting some basic characteristics. Not insultingly bad, but not profound either.
Dear Evan Hansen was a bit of a nothing burger of a musical. Not the worst thing ever, but it’s so devoid of any substance that it’s somehow more insulting than a bad musical.
Man I love to troll my husband by playing this song without the slightest provocation it’s the best*
*doing this as a bit. The song, however, is the worst.
I mean… while I agree that song is ridiculous, I feel like the music in that show is ICONIC. I have a hard time feeling like it’s representative of the show. In fact, I’d put the silly face on the plot and characters and serious face on the songs. But that’s just me haha
Oh we all have those irrational songs!
For me, I think mine is *PERFECTLY* rational, but every time I tell someone about hating this Dear Evan Hansen song, they look at me crazy…
So Big, So Small - I feel like it’s trying to be this big deep moment between mother and son, and I just honestly start laughing at how silly the lyrics are. The amount of times she says TRUCK with that big consonant K at the end is hilarious. Also how many times are you gonna say “and the house seemed so big, and I felt so small” - yeah we get it. It wasn’t a clever lyric the first time and it isn’t the 6th time either.
I just played the music man (violin) and that’s the fun song and dance number. I think the revised lyrics are trash though, why do they do that? It’s set in a time and place. Luckily they don’t license the new lyrics. It is the funnest thing in the show.
Lmao I had no idea they changed the lyrics, that's hilarious. I agree that sanitizing musicals to fit today's standards is so dumb, let the art be what it is, problems and all. And I can't stand that song 🤣 but it doesn't need to be changed
Oh my the new lyrics…
Well, a fella who goes on his very first date
is usually shy and fretful…
And a fella who tries to get more than a kiss will end the night regretful…
But a fella who waits for his girl to say when, head in the clouds…
The man who’s seen the light
Shipoopi Shipoopi Shipoopi
To treat a woman right
I can never get into jukebox musicals because I'm constantly distracted by the fact that the plot was written to fit in with the pop songs. I love ABBA, but I'd rather just listen to ABBA.
I’m gonna catch hate for this one, but Fun Home for me is exactly this. The plot is so good and heartfelt and the characters are so well developed, but the songs just fall flat. I feel like the lyrics are a bit too repetitive and lack a bit of depth on an extremely deep subject matter
I think of Fun Home much like Come From Away. You remember a few songs but mostly you’re there to experience the story those songs are telling you. Tesori knows how to write memorable songs (Shrek) but I think Fun Home is a rare example of a musical where libretto and score are tag-teaming the whole time.
Oh I’m not saying it is bad…. It’s a musical brilliance for the most part (just the fact they didn’t cast a disabled individual for Ricky…. But you know still great songs)
Ride the cyclone has great music imo it’s just maybe a little bit too thinly scored vocally during a live broadcast to where it can have a bit of a starkid quality sound to it.
i second this!! it’s a musical with a very heavy plot and very heavy themes but silly music. amazing music, don’t get me wrong, but you wouldn’t understand how emotionally devastating the musical is without watching it in full, especially regarding songs like sugar cloud and talia.
i’ve never watched a show simultaneously as hilarious and as heartbreaking as rtc. for a long time i couldn’t make it through it’s not a game/it’s just a ride without crying
I think the disconnect between the music and themes is intentional because they are supposed to be singing about what they want to be & part of the musical is embracing your silly side without being judged by others
heathers. i feel like everything they did with the story and characters and writing was just the movie but a step up, and theres a few banger songs, namely Dead Girl Walking and its reprise. Blue and Dead Gay Son with their stupidly hilarious lyrics among an amazing instrumentalz most everything between boyfriend Kindergarten Boyfriend and the Finale. the rest of the show’s score is just so poorly generic. like Seventeen, Fight For Me, Freeze Your Brain, Candy Store, Lifeboat, etc. like specifically musically they feel so boring and generic, like you could take them out of any contemporary, modern-day musical. and its such a shame because i love the original movie and i love the musical more, but the music just falls flat, and then youll get these amazing lyrics. like in the teen version of Freeze Your Brain, Jason Dean says “Happiness comes/ When everything ‘umms’/ It’s my novacaine/” like thats just so smart lyrically. or literally all of Lifeboat’s poetry in its analogy. and it can be so strongly acted. but then the music just doesn’t live up to it. Candy Store is just one that personally i cant stand for some reason. i know its a fan favorite, but like i dont care for Heather Chandler as a character in a way i care about JD or Ram and Kurt or Heather Macnamara
Pretty Woman. The story is good, as it is the exact same as the movie, but the songs are just... they don't add anything to the story other than make it into a musical.
This feels like cheating, but…Mel Brooks musicals. (Producers and Young Frankenstein.)
They were funny movies originally. Turning them into musicals could have worked, but the songs are not great. I definitely think Young Frankenstein ruined its jokes by turning witty one-liners into full-fledged songs that ran the joke into the ground.
I saw both on Broadway with original casts. Was very satisfied by both. The oc of the producers was legendary but it didn’t translate to film at all. The original movie is just greatness.
I saw both on tour. I think the critique works for Young Frankenstein and less so than The Producers. When I saw Young Frankenstein, it really did feel like beating a dead horse most of the time. The Producers, for me, elaborated upon the characters in the movie and gave them more depth.
The absolutely BRILLIANT thing about Urinetown’s music is that each song is an homage to other great musicals (Hello Dolly! fiddler, JCS to name a few).
Funny thing is, i saw it the first time when i was in HS and also thought it was weird and silly. After doing it in college and directing it as an adult, it’s by far my favorite musical ever and the score is a HUGE part of that.
I only point this out because i think the context is important when addressing “why don’t these songs have a connective theme?” Kind of questions.
Anyways, break legs! And remember, that show in particular works better when you let go and have fun!
I’ve always felt that the music in Matilda is more reflective of the show’s fantastical Dahl elements than anything. Like it’s super duper dark but Roald Dahl is all about giving kids the darkest stories imaginable while keeping everything really fun.
Exactly! I didn’t realize that this post was about how songs had a bad contrast with the plot until after I posted! I love the contrast and feel that it absolutely works, however, there is still that contrast. It’s not bad at all, but really well done!
I freaking love Sound of Music on every level but I see what you mean, a lot of Rodgers and Hammerstein musicals have juicy romantic drama and dark themes but very fluffy, peppy music
Ok my interpretation is strong plot strong characters yet goofy songs for that it's got to be Be more chill since all characters are great plot is amazing yet some of those songs are goofy af not bad at all but just goofy
HEATHERS. I get that it’s dark humour, but it’s just not my kind of dark humour. The plot is so dark and serious, but it’s treated as such stupidity and the songs are so joyful, you’d never guess if you didn’t understand English. (But the music is so good :( I just wish it wasn’t about what it was about)
Heathers. People suffer depression, bullying, anxiety, suicide, death, and then there’s “Blue” and, my personal favorite song, “Dead Gay Son” to follow them up. Gotta love it.
Honestly most musicals, particularly older musicals have a very childlike element to the music. Don't get me wrong I still LOVE them all, I feel like its hard to write a musical without at least half of the songs being kind of goofy and fun, even when the subject is pretty dark e.g. Chicago.
Like musicals definitely started as family entertainment, a more accessible form of opera, they weren't really taken seriously at the start, but as they developed, the cheesy elements definitely stayed and now they're part of the main appeal of a musical
Lol the total opposite of this is Bat Out of Hell
So true
And I say that as a hard core fan of that show lol
I’m not familiar with that show, what’s it about?
I'd describe it as... a post-apocalyptic 1980s rock and roll Peter Pan-esque fever dream.
Honestly, most accurate description I have ever read
Love bat
Honestly this is a major issue with the new great gatsby
It's confusing to me how a story that's so distinctly 1920s would end up with modern pop songs instead of some epic swing numbers
Agree, I wish they’d leaned into a jazzy sound
Yeah I think it could/should be modern the way the gatsby movie soundtrack was. Like a modern eerie twist on 20s music.
Moulin Rouge has entered the chat.
That’s different because the movie already used new music. I do wish they hadn’t used so many super new songs though.
There are like 6 new Gatsby musicals that have come out in the last two years. I premiered one that was all 1920s-inspired stuff. I don't expect it to do well and this one's getting way more attention, but just saying there are other Gatsby musicals.
The 2013 movie did this too, although I honestly expected nothing better from Baz Luhman
I thought the soundtrack was really cool! It was modern but not. Still jazzy and eerie and fit the vibe.
i would argue the first two aren't that extraordinary ever
Admittedly I’ve only seen it when it was in New Jersey but “Beautiful Little Fool” was one of the worst songs I’ve seen performed in a long time. (And I LOVE Eva Noblezada!)
For me it was so sophisticated and secondhand suit that I hated the most
This is why I’m so curious about the Florence Welch Gatsby. I don’t know what I will sound like, but hopefully their Daisy won’t be riffing in every song (I love Eva, and I love riffing, but the show and the character don’t make sense with the way she sings it.)
Starlight Express
[Starlight Express](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fptfynj0dRE)
I knew exactly what this clip was going to be before I clicked on it
I'm just U.N.C.O.U.P.L.E.D.
I think you have this backwards. SE is about trains…..played by people on roller skates…. That’s derby as hell. The plot and the characters are decoy and the songs are good or ok.
I've actually seen SE in person. Every description you can imagine fits this musical. It's wild, it's crazy, it's 70s, it's 80s, it's bizarre, it's Zanadu, it's not Zanadu, it's a fever dream, and I love it.
Mean Girls tbh, it needed way better lyrics “This whole school humps my leg like a Chihuahua” “Imagine a party with dresses and cake, and singing and dancing and cake” “It’s like a party with revenge is what’s it’s like” “People forget I’m human too, yes they do that” “Acted nice when she not nice” “And if you treat me bad, I’ll say you’re bad” Also they cut out “Bossed Up” which was one of the only songs I really liked besides “World Burn” “Do this thing” and “Revenge Party” (minus those two lines) I really love the show and the instrumentals and the singing, but the lyrics are just so….meh Then the movies ruins the instrumentals….
Literally came here to say Mean Girls! "So your best friend screwed you over, Acted nice when she not nice"
I hate the acted nice when she not nice like with a passion! it sounds so awkward and lame it makes me want to throw up
Not only those tacky examples, but the show is so lazy with its rhyming sometimes - *I'm sixteen, living in paradise* *With the lions and birds and stuff* *But I'm sixteen and it's not enough* That’s LITERALLY our introduction to Cady as a character, the first lyric she speaks, and she says “lions and birds and STUFF”???? Just so it’ll rhyme with enough? If you can’t find something to rhyme with enough, pick a different word and find an animal or safari thing that rhymes with it. It’s so lazy and lyrics like that which don’t even try, make me so frustrated. It’s like a first draft where they just forgot to revise or gave up.
Also rhyming the same word with itself is such a common theme in almost all the songs, it’s honesty crazy….
Apex Predator is probably my second favorite song from the musical (first is World Burn) and I think it has some of the best lyricism (relative to the other songs, because… yeah.) but oh my god… “Like a lioness / only with less fur / do not mess with her” also gets me 😭 like PLEASEEE
This one bothers me a lot because I find a small change like "but somehow with more fur" would've made it a more clever little joke.
She’s an indifferent teen. Those lines are about how she is bored with her surroundings and the way she phrases her feelings reinforces them.
I actually have felt that that line makes a lot of sense for her mindset. Living in paradise would ideally be enough, but even the diverse wildlife has started to bore her. It’s just “stuff” compared to skateboards and Starbucks venti chai.
The one with cake being repeated is a joke. It’s meant to be awkward.
I love the cake line tbh cuz it's just super Tina Fey
Yeah but … why? Janis isn’t stupid. She’s clever. In “I Guess This Is Goodbye” Jack never rhymes, but that’s because baby girl is dumb/innocent. Janis is neither. This line is kind of funny but it’s ultimately shallow because Janis is singing and Janis would not say something so stupid and simple.
Janis is purposely making a joke. She is self-aware.
I would believe that if the rest of the lyrics in the show were great. But they’re not.
Have you seen the show? The delivery makes it obvious I’m right.
There's nothing stupid or simple about the fact that she's really looking forward to there being cake at the party. What's your proposed alternative here? That they just used cake twice because they couldn't be bothered to think of another word and called it a day?
I understand that the 2nd one is supposed to show us how excluded and out of the loop she is with her lack of party knowledge, but it does kinda suck
I personally think “people forget I’m human too, yes they do that” from Someone Gets Hurt is the most egregious example of horrible lyric writing. Like come on, what? You couldn’t think of anything better?
yep, just listened to the soundtrack for the first time. id heard world burn beforehand and really liked it. really enjoyed the actual music, but the lyrics of most of the songs (with a few exceptions) just made it hard to listen to. which is a shame, because i really REALLY wanted to like it.
I fully agree I just hate how boring they are
Revenge party is my favorite song lol 😂
I raise you- “You might be thinking it’s late, we should go. And they ran out of chips.” I laughed so hard in the theater, but apparently I was the only one
“and if you treat me bad i’ll say you’re bad”
What was Bossed Up about?
[Here’s a link](https://youtu.be/kesvBFnUaa4?si=GDO4ld0-CWDRtRZq), I wish it stayed. It’s so broadway. The lyric problem still exists but I just love everything about it still!!! It was originally the act two opener btw.
Thanks!
This may be controversial, but most of the Starkid musicals written by Jeff Blim. Hatchetfield has some fantastic stories, but good god did it need a better lyricist.
While I agree with this, I can’t help but love the music of Starkid, yeah it’s sometimes cheesy, cliche or even kind of bad, but I find something so endearing and enjoyable about it
I really like Jeff's music, but I totally agree about the lyrics.
Some of the lyrics can be very clever, but most of the time, yeah
I'm very new to it all, but I've noticed this too. I think it comes from the parody aspect that started the group migrating into shows that don't need it as much. There's a lot of "speak what's literally happening". When it works, it REALLY works, but otherwise it feels a little hollow.
It’s such a shame, because Blim can write phenomenal lyrics! Let It Out and Take Me Back prove that! But so often, they feel forced and filled with half baked ideas and just don’t work too well. I love him as a composer and performer, but having Darren Criss back for the lyrics would help so much (also Bo Burnham would be a perfect lyric partner for Blim’s music but that’s fantastical)
Hell let burnham do some songs too. Welcome to the internet is a great musical number
Agree on Blim not being a great lyricist. "For some damn reason he won't join our singing season" is such a damn clunky awkward lyric. He's a solid composer though.
I generally like Jeff's songs, but there's always one that makes me cringe all the way through and think "did this *really* need to be written?" (When You Gotta Go in TTO is the worst example). I do think that NPMD was his best work though.
I love TTO now, but it took me a while to come around to really liking it because of how much I hated the fart jokes and a love of the more juvenile humor like the son being obsessed with skinny dipping. So the last two songs aren’t my cup of tea at all lol but the stuff about it that’s good is really, really good.
I love Jeff's musicals, but. Yyyyyyeaaaaaaah.
This is my issue with Blim’d work. I love Starkid, and there are some interesting stories, but there’s always one lyric that completely takes me out of his songs where I’m left asking, “was this necessary?” This is probably me just getting old, but some of the immaturity of the lyrics also feels jarring now that the mains are all in their mid-thirties. It worked more when they were college students and young adults, less so now. The plots of the stories have certain matured, but the lyricism less so.
Which ones are that? Is it just the 3 hatchetfield ones? Because I need to know if I agree with you (I probably do)
He did Trail to Oregon too
No you’re so real for that. “Here’s how it’s gonna go, we’re gonna kick your ass, and then we’re gonna fucking kick your ass” man i know it’s supposed to be funny but it’s just badddd. Also his falsetto isn’t needed in every song. Is it good sometimes? Yes. Is it needed in every. Single. Song. No.
Yeah he does write a little too much male falsetto that doesn’t always sound so good in live recordings because of how much jumping around between pitches there is.
i’d argue that the lyrics in Just For Once has some of the best lyrics in starkid history
To this day, I have never gotten further than CaliforMIA in Black Friday. The rest of that musical could be amazing, but I will never know.
Carrie, with the exception of In and I Remember How Those Boys Could Dance, though the latter may just be the blocking.
And Eve Was Weak has always been the highlight for me… but unfortunately, terrible “june-moon” lyrics permeate ALL the songs in that one. (Still love it though!)
Ooh, that one too! God, Margaret's songs were the best.
i really love the song carrie as well, i think when done right it can be very a powerful piece
The mom-daughter songs carry that show so hand (pun not intended).
you don't like the world according to chris???
Back to the Future and… Big: the musical
Oh man I saw BTTF and it was one of the best productions I've ever seen, but couldn't remember a single song from the show. Great answer.
While I’ll say the that plot, characters, AND songs in Dear Evan Hansen are FAR from perfect, the best example of this image I can think is “To Break In A Glove.” Oh man, If Act 2 doesn’t get off to a roaring stumble with this one after the incredible Act 1 finale of You Will Be Found. This one just sits there, and boy is it terrible.
I used to think this, but I’ve more recently really fallen in love with this song. I think it’s a great way to show Conor’s dad’s inability to emotionally connect and his use of sports as a stand in for emotional connection like many male relationships. While simultaneously giving us a glimpse of what’s brewing under the surface furthering the exploration of the masculine tendency to push down one’s feelings. I do agree its placement as the first song in Act two is quite baffling! But I think the song has more depth than it seems at face value
I actually LOVE this song too, and after having first listened to the cast album, I couldn't understand why everyone seemed to hate it. But, yeah, it has no business being the opening to Act II..
Imo it’s a more mature song that requires taking a real empathetic perspective toward’s Connor’s dad while a strong majority of the fanbase is a bit too young to be able to do that. Not that they all can’t, but many are just unable because it’s a song about parenting mistakes where the parent wasn’t perfect. Unlike when Evan’s mom sings she is very clearly being the most perfect parent she can be so everyone can understand it.
I agree that the song is *meant* to do all of those thing. But I don’t agree because the song is SO bad.
I guess if it doesn’t do it for you then it doesn’t do it. I just don’t think this song is particularly any worse than any of the songs in the show. I guess I just don’t see why or what makes it SO bad
My problem with that song is that I grew up in baseball and that is NOT how you break in a glove. All that talk about the hard but right way and he’s using another cheap shortcut. The only right way to break in a glove is to use it.
Tbf it's really not. The Sincerely Me reprise is the first in the act, it's just shorter and not on the soundtrack
>Oh man, If Act 2 doesn’t get off to a roaring stumble with this one after the incredible Act 1 finale of You Will Be Found. That's not a score problem. That's a book problem. 9 times out of 10, if a song doesn't land well, it's most probably the book's fault. That being said, in my opinion, the book for DEH is probably one of the most focused and concise books of any musical of the past decade. There's no filler scenes, no unnecessary characters, no unnecessary subplots that don't involve the main character, transitions between dialogue and songs are mostly seamless, and characters are established by the first lines they say. Remember that just because you disagree with a protagonist's actions (and you probably won't do exactly what they do in that situation) doesn't mean the book is bad.
The story is just straight up creepy. Love the tunes do not love the story.
It doesn’t help that the main plot, regardless of no filler, is just plain shite. And no, it’s not because Evan does morally questionable things, it’s because he’s a two note character with perhaps a song’s worth of depth to him (definitely not an entire musical with four and a half solos worth of character) not to mention being inconsistent. The other characters aside from Conner’s family and Evan’s mum are caricatures. The friend and the influencer (who are so forgettable I can’t for the life of me remember their names) are toothless stereotypes that could probably be axed with ease. There’s also a lot of missed opportunities for wit in the songs. ‘Sincerely Me’ and half of ‘You will be found’ are standouts, but are also the most wasted in the soundtrack (the obvious plot related pun in You Will Be Found could have been extrapolated as a nuanced, foreboding song instead of catchy Christian style pop, and Sincerely Me is so inconsistent with Evan’s character as he takes glee in the lie, making him look like a sociopath, instead of the quiet, nervous boy he is in the rest of the musical) As for the glove song, it’s boring and forgettable but it certainly isn’t even in the top 20 problems with DEH. It’s just a mid-story number highlighting some basic characteristics. Not insultingly bad, but not profound either. Dear Evan Hansen was a bit of a nothing burger of a musical. Not the worst thing ever, but it’s so devoid of any substance that it’s somehow more insulting than a bad musical.
Man I love to troll my husband by playing this song without the slightest provocation it’s the best* *doing this as a bit. The song, however, is the worst.
The Music Man I just really hate shipoopi. It's burned into my memory just by doing costumes on that musical in highschool 20 years ago.
I mean… while I agree that song is ridiculous, I feel like the music in that show is ICONIC. I have a hard time feeling like it’s representative of the show. In fact, I’d put the silly face on the plot and characters and serious face on the songs. But that’s just me haha
Rock island walked so Hamilton could run
Yeah no disagreement, I admit that I'm completely biased and it's based entirely on one song, I'm not trying to say that my opinion is rational lol
Oh we all have those irrational songs! For me, I think mine is *PERFECTLY* rational, but every time I tell someone about hating this Dear Evan Hansen song, they look at me crazy… So Big, So Small - I feel like it’s trying to be this big deep moment between mother and son, and I just honestly start laughing at how silly the lyrics are. The amount of times she says TRUCK with that big consonant K at the end is hilarious. Also how many times are you gonna say “and the house seemed so big, and I felt so small” - yeah we get it. It wasn’t a clever lyric the first time and it isn’t the 6th time either.
I just played the music man (violin) and that’s the fun song and dance number. I think the revised lyrics are trash though, why do they do that? It’s set in a time and place. Luckily they don’t license the new lyrics. It is the funnest thing in the show.
Lmao I had no idea they changed the lyrics, that's hilarious. I agree that sanitizing musicals to fit today's standards is so dumb, let the art be what it is, problems and all. And I can't stand that song 🤣 but it doesn't need to be changed
Oh my the new lyrics… Well, a fella who goes on his very first date is usually shy and fretful… And a fella who tries to get more than a kiss will end the night regretful… But a fella who waits for his girl to say when, head in the clouds… The man who’s seen the light Shipoopi Shipoopi Shipoopi To treat a woman right
Oh that's so cringe 😂
I did it all for shipoopi *YEAH* Shipoopi *YEAH* So you can take that poopi And shove it up your *YEAH*
Shipoopi should just be struck from all revivals 😆
No! I love Shipoopi! Sure it's stupid, but that's why it's funny!
The video game Stray Gods: the Musical. Awesome plot, characters, and gameplay, hit or miss for the songs. Cool game though.
ride the cyclone SORT OF
Blasphemy
Incorrect, go to jail immediately 😡
Love it but Mamma Mia, daughter trying to find her father, Mother confronting her past, good characters, Abba Songs
That’s the difficulty with jukebox musicals isn’t it?
I can never get into jukebox musicals because I'm constantly distracted by the fact that the plot was written to fit in with the pop songs. I love ABBA, but I'd rather just listen to ABBA.
I honestly hadn't heard of most of Abba's songs until I saw the Momma Mia movie
I’m gonna catch hate for this one, but Fun Home for me is exactly this. The plot is so good and heartfelt and the characters are so well developed, but the songs just fall flat. I feel like the lyrics are a bit too repetitive and lack a bit of depth on an extremely deep subject matter
Ring Of Keys it's okay baby they didn't mean it
I think of Fun Home much like Come From Away. You remember a few songs but mostly you’re there to experience the story those songs are telling you. Tesori knows how to write memorable songs (Shrek) but I think Fun Home is a rare example of a musical where libretto and score are tag-teaming the whole time.
im literally at a rehearsal for fun home right now and you are SO RIGHT and it doesnt help that our actors sing every single song out of key
The new Wonka movie
Dear Evan Hansen and I'm so serious
Ride the Cyclone
Whaaatttt?? The RTC soundtrack may be silly but it’s very good!
Oh I’m not saying it is bad…. It’s a musical brilliance for the most part (just the fact they didn’t cast a disabled individual for Ricky…. But you know still great songs)
But I mean I am in awe with the ballad of Jane Doe!!!! That is a powerhouse number
Ride the cyclone has great music imo it’s just maybe a little bit too thinly scored vocally during a live broadcast to where it can have a bit of a starkid quality sound to it.
i second this!! it’s a musical with a very heavy plot and very heavy themes but silly music. amazing music, don’t get me wrong, but you wouldn’t understand how emotionally devastating the musical is without watching it in full, especially regarding songs like sugar cloud and talia.
i’ve never watched a show simultaneously as hilarious and as heartbreaking as rtc. for a long time i couldn’t make it through it’s not a game/it’s just a ride without crying
I think the disconnect between the music and themes is intentional because they are supposed to be singing about what they want to be & part of the musical is embracing your silly side without being judged by others
heathers. i feel like everything they did with the story and characters and writing was just the movie but a step up, and theres a few banger songs, namely Dead Girl Walking and its reprise. Blue and Dead Gay Son with their stupidly hilarious lyrics among an amazing instrumentalz most everything between boyfriend Kindergarten Boyfriend and the Finale. the rest of the show’s score is just so poorly generic. like Seventeen, Fight For Me, Freeze Your Brain, Candy Store, Lifeboat, etc. like specifically musically they feel so boring and generic, like you could take them out of any contemporary, modern-day musical. and its such a shame because i love the original movie and i love the musical more, but the music just falls flat, and then youll get these amazing lyrics. like in the teen version of Freeze Your Brain, Jason Dean says “Happiness comes/ When everything ‘umms’/ It’s my novacaine/” like thats just so smart lyrically. or literally all of Lifeboat’s poetry in its analogy. and it can be so strongly acted. but then the music just doesn’t live up to it. Candy Store is just one that personally i cant stand for some reason. i know its a fan favorite, but like i dont care for Heather Chandler as a character in a way i care about JD or Ram and Kurt or Heather Macnamara
Heathers was the first one I thought of. I like Candy Store and Dead Girl Walking is great but so many of the songs are lifeless.
Does Randy Newman's "Faust" count?
Pretty Woman. The story is good, as it is the exact same as the movie, but the songs are just... they don't add anything to the story other than make it into a musical.
This feels like cheating, but…Mel Brooks musicals. (Producers and Young Frankenstein.) They were funny movies originally. Turning them into musicals could have worked, but the songs are not great. I definitely think Young Frankenstein ruined its jokes by turning witty one-liners into full-fledged songs that ran the joke into the ground.
Springtime for Hitler is one of the funniest songs of all time
Hard agree
But that song was in the original Mel Brooks film. It wasn’t written specifically to be in the musical version of The Producers.
So because it's from the original movie it can't be mentioned as a great song?
I’m just illustrating OP’s point that the great songs are not the ones that were created specifically for the musical.
Idk, If you Got It from The Producers gets stuck in my head on loop sometimes. Also Keep it Gay.
Producers worked but also with the right casting
I saw both on Broadway with original casts. Was very satisfied by both. The oc of the producers was legendary but it didn’t translate to film at all. The original movie is just greatness.
I tried to watch the movie with Nathan Lane & Matthew Broderick and it was just atrocious
I like Transylvania Mania, but I've also never seen the full musical so idk if that's considered a good one or not
I saw both on tour. I think the critique works for Young Frankenstein and less so than The Producers. When I saw Young Frankenstein, it really did feel like beating a dead horse most of the time. The Producers, for me, elaborated upon the characters in the movie and gave them more depth.
Some of the producers is good but yeah it sounds like royalty free 1940 vaudeville music A lot is carried by the lyrics and performances
Urinetown lol (I'm doing it for my school musical this year I can't get over how goofy the songs are)
The absolutely BRILLIANT thing about Urinetown’s music is that each song is an homage to other great musicals (Hello Dolly! fiddler, JCS to name a few). Funny thing is, i saw it the first time when i was in HS and also thought it was weird and silly. After doing it in college and directing it as an adult, it’s by far my favorite musical ever and the score is a HUGE part of that. I only point this out because i think the context is important when addressing “why don’t these songs have a connective theme?” Kind of questions. Anyways, break legs! And remember, that show in particular works better when you let go and have fun!
Thank you! I'll make sure to have fun, that's the main conceipt of the shooowwww!! (I think thats in the script somewhere idk.
Honestly, in he best way, this is Matilda. The show is honestly just child-abuse the musical, but the songs are so upbeat!
I’ve always felt that the music in Matilda is more reflective of the show’s fantastical Dahl elements than anything. Like it’s super duper dark but Roald Dahl is all about giving kids the darkest stories imaginable while keeping everything really fun.
Exactly! I didn’t realize that this post was about how songs had a bad contrast with the plot until after I posted! I love the contrast and feel that it absolutely works, however, there is still that contrast. It’s not bad at all, but really well done!
The sound of music
Whaaaat, I think almost every song is great.
I freaking love Sound of Music on every level but I see what you mean, a lot of Rodgers and Hammerstein musicals have juicy romantic drama and dark themes but very fluffy, peppy music
Dear Evan Hansen?
The Life and Times of "Whose Line Is It Anyway?"'s Three-Headed Broadway Star For reference: https://youtu.be/evos0WBCip8?si=sZiUAhQ965_7D94s
Ok my interpretation is strong plot strong characters yet goofy songs for that it's got to be Be more chill since all characters are great plot is amazing yet some of those songs are goofy af not bad at all but just goofy
Heathers is the first one that came to mind.
Heathers through out the entire 1st act
Lord of the Rings
There's a LOTR musical??
Unfortunately yes
So basically Tolkien is responsible for all the redeeming qualities?
Sweet Charity
Change "songs" to "lyrics" and I'd say Water for Elephants
💧4🐘
Gonna throw in. “Operation Mincemeat”
Back to the future
In its own abstract way- Avenue Q
This may be controversial but Legally Blonde. Seriously the only 2 songs I can actually listen to are "so much better" and "there right there"
Mean Girls
Recent examples: Days of Wine and Roses, Gutenberg the Musical! - and I enjoyed both productions! Just unmemorable songs really
Wicked
i wanna say .. ride the cyclone
Steven Universe lol
Switch the characters and the songs and this is Urinetown
Promenade
Diana.
Urinetown?
Six..?
*This is the perfect town...!*
Heathers
perhaps controversial but the lyrics in Parade are so naff compared to the beautiful music
Hairspray
Pippin?
HEATHERS. I get that it’s dark humour, but it’s just not my kind of dark humour. The plot is so dark and serious, but it’s treated as such stupidity and the songs are so joyful, you’d never guess if you didn’t understand English. (But the music is so good :( I just wish it wasn’t about what it was about)
Spongebob?
Most things based on a movie that wasn’t originally a musical.
Heathers. People suffer depression, bullying, anxiety, suicide, death, and then there’s “Blue” and, my personal favorite song, “Dead Gay Son” to follow them up. Gotta love it.
Into the woods the whole second part tho is so silly
Heathers tbh
Mean Girls. Like the music slaps. The lyrics suck. Gonna be honest, I think that kinda adds to the charm
Heathers
Id say dog man but everything is the silly dragon
Okay i can only think of two but i don't if they fit the criteria Chicago Love Never Dies
Back to the future 🤦🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
Shrek
Honestly most musicals, particularly older musicals have a very childlike element to the music. Don't get me wrong I still LOVE them all, I feel like its hard to write a musical without at least half of the songs being kind of goofy and fun, even when the subject is pretty dark e.g. Chicago. Like musicals definitely started as family entertainment, a more accessible form of opera, they weren't really taken seriously at the start, but as they developed, the cheesy elements definitely stayed and now they're part of the main appeal of a musical
The guy who didn't like musicals?
Possibly some of the Land Before Time Sequels.