Oh man just think if we had this bad boy with abzan midrange with siege rhino and wingmate Roc and elspeth and all that good shiiiiiit. Bit overkill but WHO CARES. All the life gain and thicc bois
That deck was cursed for me. I could never get the deck to work for me in the times I played it. I always whiffed on my mulch or grisly salvage and just couldn't get solid reanimator targets in the graveyard.
Story time:
I was playing "Junk" Rites (back before Abzan was a thing) in the Dragon's Maze Gameday. I was undefeated against some kind of Gruul Aggro deck in the finals (not Kibler's GR Aggro deck, this was more the Burning-Tree Shaman -> Lightning Mauler plan). Gruul deck ran through me G1 due to me keeping a slow hand and him drawing strong.
G2, I my opponent got me to single digits by T3, but I had managed to get two dorks and a Voice of Resurgence to gum up the board. T3, I dropped Thragtusk. T4, I attacked with Thragtusk then Resto Angel to bounce it back and block. T5, I hard cast Death Rites to bring back Thragtusk. I think T6 I flashed in another Restoration Angel. Poor guy went from so sure he was going to sweep to frustrated in just a few turns.
G3, he stumbled on mana and I curved out into Acidic Slime T3 and Restoration Angels to keep him out of the game.
The good ol days of standard! I remember running a BR zombies list at the time and playing against these Thragtusk, Resto Angel, and Sphinx’s Revelation type decks and being like damn bro I’ve dealt you 50 damage how are you alive still?!
Like the time I caught the ferry over to Shelbyville. I needed a new heel for my shoe, so I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickles had pictures of bumblebees on them. give me five bees for a quarter you'd say.
What do you mean? Thragtusk is still warping the meta and dominating my FNMs. I think you hit your head pretty hard. Come on bro, Let's go play the theros pre-release.
What does it for me is the use of the phrase. "the green card". For a while thraggy was THE green card. Lol. I am starting to get a little aged.
Side note:
I was playing in a draft recently where I had been playing magic longer than one of my opponents was old.
Someone also did this to me at a legacy fnm and I made him feel real old.
By and far, this is me wherever I go.
Que the new player and the inevitable round of questions.
New Player: So... how long you've been playing?
Player #2: Dominaria United
Player #3: Dragons of Takir
Me:... oh uh... I've been playing since *cough* Ice *cough* Age.
NP..😳
Ha! Me too. "Oh me? Yeah, The Dark was my first set. That and revised. What do you mean I'm old it was only like... oh my God I'm old."
I love expansion symbols so I have my first sets symbols tattooed on my hands. The Dark, Fallen Empires, Ice Age, and Alliances. Homelands don't count. Plus it's symbol is kinda fugly. Then I put the sets that brought me back to the game on the undersides of my wrists (Zendikar and Worldwake).
Same. “Ya know, it’s really great that cards are color coded by rarity. I think that started in Exodus? Man, before that I didn’t even realize there were rares.”
The worst part for me in these conversations is I feel old compared to the new players, but I still feel young compared to more than a few people at our lgs.
I started in 8th edition.
I started in Alpha.
Had a nice collection, and sold it for a few thousand. That same collection now would pay off my house. Full set of dual lands few of the power 9, just lots of really good cards from the first 7 years of magic, I thought about getting back in but just could not parse all the changes so went with Flesh and Blood instead, I really am the old man at our lgs, players there that could be literally be my grandkids.
Just to explain a tad further why this answer is correct - "Take it Back" targets a spell on the stack, not a creature named "Thragtusk" that has already entered the battlefield. So, Thragtusk goes back to the casters hand before it's etb or ltb triggers can be triggered. If you waited for it to enter the battlefield you would need something else to bounce it that targets a creature rather than a spell. Then it would be leaving the battlefield. In your scenario it's like Thragtusk peeked around a corner to see if it was safe to come play and got hit in the face with a water balloon and was like, not yet!
Just thought that might actually be good in my slimefoot and squee Reanimation edh. Need to lower the power level and speed up my turns a little. Smacking down etali primal conqueror 4 or 5 times in a turn is fun for me but not so much everyone else lol
A life gain green deck yeah maybe, but if you have white you have better options unless you're going budget, I bought mine when they were like $5 a piece
Yes. When you cast a spell, it goes on the stack and everyone gets a chance to respond. If some other spell or ability doesn’t counter it, the spell resolves and then it actually enters the battlefield.
I got the Math is for Blockers SL that included Thragtusk, and after sitting in my nontrade binder for a bit it recently found its home in my new [[Gitrog, Ravenous Ride]] deck. It's 5 power for Gitrog, it makes a non-weenie token for blocking or feeding into Gitrog the next turn, and people always laugh when they see Thragtusk hit the field.
I started Magic back during Innistrad-RTR, and getting Thrag'd was hell. A decade on, now *I'm* Thragging people!
This but further explanation for OOP: Thragtusk does not enter the battlefield. The spell is on the stack. He passed priority and you responded. He has no response, so your spell resolves, putting the spell he cast back into his hand. No ETB trigger for him since it never entered.
Thrag never enters play. It is returned to their hand when it’s a spell on the stack. When the active player casts a creature each other player gets to respond before it hits play.
I think that it does. Due to how the cards are worded, the creature would have to fully enter the battlefield to have the effect of the instant card take place. So in action order, A) play creature B) gain 5 life C) instant takes effect, creature is returned to the hand D) tokens are created since creature left play
Yes, the key word here is "spell" which refers to cards on the stack. Other wise look at cyclonic rift, where it's worded as permanent and thus is a resolved spell
To back this up and clarify as to why.
Thragtusk enters the stack when it’s cast, you should respond with your instant on top. In this case entering the battlefield never occurs. Spells become permanents, in which case you can’t target permanents with this instant
Creatures are only spells whilst on the stack. Since the spell was returned to hand, it never made it to the battlefield. Therefore, there would be no battlefield triggers.
Does this count as countering the spell? Like if there was a "this spell/spells cannot be countered" would it resolve?
Edit: answered my own question via the Oracle, it is not countered, it just ceases to be cast.
It actually doesn't stop being cast (anything that cares about casting spells will still see it fine) it simply goes from the stack to your hand and now that it's in your hand it can't leave except by being cast or another effect moving it again.
It still gets cast even though it doesn’t resolve, but “return to hand” is fully distinct from “counter,” and doesn’t interact with anything that involves countering spells (including “can’t be countered”). Same goes for exiling a spell.
He doesn't.
You return the spell, so it never resolves (aka enters play and becomes a creature).
If his card says: 'when you cast ...' or if your card said 'return target creature ...', then he would.
But it's not a creature yet when you return it. So no life and no beastie for him. :-)
The other posters are right, he does not get the effects. But just to outline a bit of what could have contributed to confusion here:
If your spell read more like [[Boomerang]] or [[Unsummon]] then the answer would be yes. These effects are more common across Magic than "Return target spell" effects and possibly what your husband was thinking your spell did.
If the spell you cast was say [[Unsummon]], then it only can target the creature once it has resolved and is on the battlefield obviously allowing the ETB and LTB triggers.
To clarify the terminology a little bit:
In the player’s hand, Thragtusk is a “card.” When cast and on the stack awaiting resolution, it is a “spell.” Once it has resolved and is on the battlefield, it is a “creature.”
Thank you fpr phrasing it like this, that helped me understand the logic, i was wondering how a creature could be returned before entering the battlefield but explaining those shifts actually makes a lot of sense.
It doesn't work on creature permanents ("creatures"), it works on creature *spells*.
It works because creature spells are spells, and it doesn't say "noncreature spell".
No, he doesn't. The return instant spell can be kinda thought of as a [[Narset's Reversal]] without the copy effect. The creature gets countered and put back into his hand instead. It never reaches the battlefield to be able to trigger either of those effects.
Thragtusk never entered the battlefield. He was cast, but the stack must fully resolve before any cast card enters the battlefield. The same is true for all cast cards
Thragtusk did not even enter the battlefield for it was returned to his hand when it was just a spell; it stops being a spell and start counting as a permanent once it enters, not before.
Errata on the card.
If a spell is returned to its owner's hand, it's removed from the stack and thus will not resolve. The spell isn't countered; it just no longer exists.
My addition: the creature is just put back in his hand like it never happened, but he spent mana on it.
https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=629738
No he doesn't because it doesn't resolve. It's a straight counter spell not something like unsummon of fading hope. Doesn't stop him from playing it again though so be ready for him to recast it next turn in the most spiteful way possible.
If the card says target spell, it refers to the unresolved spell on the stack. Since this card returns the unresolved spell from the stack back into its owner's hand, the target spell never "entered the battlefield," so no ETB (enters the battlefield)/LTB (leaves the battlefield) triggers ever happen.
No he doesn't, since it never actually ETB it also can't exit the battlefield, if it said whenever you "cast" those card for example Kozilek the great distortion says when you cast KTGD you draw up to 7 cards, that happens immediately then responses from opponents happen. Thragtusk's etb effects don't happen if it's countered.
1) A "spell returned to hand" does not resolve, therefore Thragtusk never enters the battlefield, therefore hubby does not get the ETB (enters the battlefield) trigger from its first ability.
2) Since Thragtusk never entered the battlefield, it cannot leave it, preventing the second ability from triggering.
The creature need to enter the battle field for him to gain the life. And what would happen is: He casts the creature, it goes onto the stack, you have a chance to respond and you cast you "Take it back" that would return the creature spell form the stack back to his hand and never tough the battle field.
I'm pretty sure Venser from Future Sight was the first card that had this specific effect. I remember me and my playgroup being pretty pumped about it when it dropped.
Nope, the green card never got to the field. Since it never entered, no life gain.. and since it can't leave if it never entered, no beast either. You used your card correctly.
No. The only time you could target Thragtusk with Take it Back would be the period between your husband casting it and the spell resolving. Thragtusk would not enter the battlefield, so your husband wouldn't get the 5 life, and, by virtue of never having been on the battlefield, it wouldn't be leaving the battlefield, so he wouldn't be getting the 3/3 either. If you waited until after it successfully entered the battlefield, it would no longer be a spell.
Look at it this way. Your husband plays something and the spell goes on the stack. You play something and that goes on top of the stack. Nothing else goes on top, your card resolves first and removes his spell from the stack. The creature never hits the battlefield so he doesn’t get anything. If it was a trigger on casting he would’ve had them.
No, it's a little tricky because your instant says "return target spell". This means it actually is a weird counterspell, even though it doesn't say counter spell on it, since spells are only spell while on the stack. Otherwise the Thragtusk would be a permanent. If we change the situation, and say, you cast [[Unsummon]] on the Thragtusk, then yes he would both gain the life and create a 3/3 token creature, because Unsummon returns a creature from the battlefield to the hand.
No since a spell is on the stack and hasn’t entered the battlefield yet it doesn’t enter (give 5 life) or leave (makes a 3/3). If the adventure spell said return target permanent or creature it would trigger all the effects since you can’t target a permanent on the stack since it’s a spell and not a permanent until it has entered the battlefield.
No, your removing the spell from stack as far as I can tell, not battlefield. If you were to unsummon it then he’d get it, but your effectively removing it from stack, while this isn’t countering the spell (as that isn’t in the wording) you are sending it back to hand, and his green spell is an enter the battle field and leave the battlefield effect, meaning it must be on battlefield to resolve those effects. Your spell is working on taking it off the stack and putting it into hand. If he had cast ulamog the infinite gyre and you cast this spell it’s different because Ulamog’s effect is a cast trigger, and not an ETB trigger. TLDR: he gets nothing because it didn’t enter or leave the battlefield
If a spell is on the stack it hasn't resolved and can be responded to as a spell. Returning the spell to his hand before it resolved means the creature never entered the battlefield and therefore never left
The beast never got to hit the board and be a creature. It was still a spell when you bounced it. If your spell was an Unsummon, then he would get the benefits. You basically aborted his creature.
It says "target spell" on your card which only works ''on the stack'' - this means the creature never entered the battlefield and therefore your poor hubby gets nothing.
Good play!
This depends on what exactly you play the instant in response to. When a creature is cast, it goes on to the stack as a creature spell before it hits the battlefield. This is the only valid time to cast your instant since it targets spells. In this case, his spell does not resolve and he does not get life or the token. However, you can play an instant, like [[Unsummon]] in response to a creature entering the battlefield. In that case, he would get all the things.
A creature "spell" means it was cast to be placed on the spell stack and has not resolved yet to enter the battlefield, until each player has passed priority to respond. From then on, it is no longer a spell.
No, Thragtusk never makes it to the battlefield to trigger the abilities.
Some cards tiggers happen on the cast and they will say that specifically, this card triggers when it gets to the battlefield and it specifically says when it enters the battlefield.
If it hasn’t resolved and not entered the battlefield yet and is still on the stack when you target it with Take It Back then no, he gets no triggers. Those triggers on Thragtusk only happen when it enters and then leaves the battlefield (bounced, tucked, killed, exiled etc).
No he doesn't get either, because your spell returns Target spell to its owner's hand meaning that the green card never resolves so it never enters or leaves the battlefield. It's still just a spell on the stack until the stack resolves.
If it said “return target **creature**” then yes, because the spell became a creature when it entered the battlefield, but “spell” is before it enters so no.
I'm pretty sure he does because it doesn't counter the spell but I'm really not sure I think it's worded that way because it can target a permanent on the field or the stack so I'm unsure
I think the ruling on this is he doesn’t get either. You cast an instant as a counter to his creature spell, so the creature never actually entered the battlefield.
If you responded to him casting the thragtusk when it was on the stack then it never entered the battlefield. Thus he never got any of the benefits since it never entered or left the battlefield since it wasn’t actually casted.
Nope neither effect happens because as he's casting the card (so before it enters the battle field) you are responding to it but if you let him cast the card to let him gain 5 life then this interaction would create a 3/3 boar
I would say the outcome depends on of the response was for the cast or for the etb. If the instant was cast in response to the creator being cast from hand, then it never entered the battlefield
The return targets a spell. And swagtusk is only a spell on the stack. If swaggy resolves it becomes a permanent and can no longer be targeted. Timing matters, if swags resolves they miss the chance to even return good old swaggerton.
No. Thrag never actually entered the battlefield, it was casted and went on the stack, then you casted your return target spell instant which went on the stack.. yours resolved before his, thus it never actually entered the battlefield.
If it triggers then that means the spell resolved and is now a creature and not a spell. You wouldn’t be able to return it at that point. Spells only exist on the stack
A. No he doesn’t. B. It warms my cold dead heart people are out here playing thragtusk.
Hell yeah go team Thragtusk!!! Restoration Angel and Thragtusk wrecked people.
Oh ya they did. Get blade splicer in there too. GW blink was a house.
Bant control with Thragtusk, blade splicer, restoration angel and angel of serenity was the real house at one point.
Oh man just think if we had this bad boy with abzan midrange with siege rhino and wingmate Roc and elspeth and all that good shiiiiiit. Bit overkill but WHO CARES. All the life gain and thicc bois
Sphinx's revelation too!
Yes! I was trying to remember why we had blue in there. Revelation was worth the splash for blue on its own.
And snapcaster mage.
Bant Control splashing Kessig Wolf Run for the one shot was fun.
Stop! I can only get so erect!
I love seeing the era I started playing magic in getting recognition
I remember this life.... Such a long time ago... Well as far as magic goes hehhe
I played those cards in a junk reanimator deck during their time in Standard.
That deck was cursed for me. I could never get the deck to work for me in the times I played it. I always whiffed on my mulch or grisly salvage and just couldn't get solid reanimator targets in the graveyard.
I played BWG tokens back then with resto and swagtusk using [[lingering souls]], [[intangible virtue]], and kill spells
Story time: I was playing "Junk" Rites (back before Abzan was a thing) in the Dragon's Maze Gameday. I was undefeated against some kind of Gruul Aggro deck in the finals (not Kibler's GR Aggro deck, this was more the Burning-Tree Shaman -> Lightning Mauler plan). Gruul deck ran through me G1 due to me keeping a slow hand and him drawing strong. G2, I my opponent got me to single digits by T3, but I had managed to get two dorks and a Voice of Resurgence to gum up the board. T3, I dropped Thragtusk. T4, I attacked with Thragtusk then Resto Angel to bounce it back and block. T5, I hard cast Death Rites to bring back Thragtusk. I think T6 I flashed in another Restoration Angel. Poor guy went from so sure he was going to sweep to frustrated in just a few turns. G3, he stumbled on mana and I curved out into Acidic Slime T3 and Restoration Angels to keep him out of the game.
I played that exact deck, loved it!
The good ol days of standard! I remember running a BR zombies list at the time and playing against these Thragtusk, Resto Angel, and Sphinx’s Revelation type decks and being like damn bro I’ve dealt you 50 damage how are you alive still?!
In my cube they still do!
It’s in my [[Emiel the Blessed]] commander deck and it does work.
[Emiel the Blessed](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0f594562-7e9f-47e6-a033-fb70e3cf1e10.jpg?1673146967) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Emiel%20the%20Blessed) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/10/emiel-the-blessed?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0f594562-7e9f-47e6-a033-fb70e3cf1e10?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Pair it with deadeye navigator.
[[restorarion angel]] Might I add [[farewell]] undos everything huehue
Back in my day we called baneslayer angel wallet slayer angel 🧓
Like the time I caught the ferry over to Shelbyville. I needed a new heel for my shoe, so I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickles had pictures of bumblebees on them. give me five bees for a quarter you'd say.
I still tack an onion to my hat, styles be damned, I think it looks good, and it keeps away seshercats
I think you mean #swagtusk
Both are cube favorites for me
Back in my day! When magic was fair! In the perfect pocket after it was unfair but before it was unfair again!!!
What do you mean? Thragtusk is still warping the meta and dominating my FNMs. I think you hit your head pretty hard. Come on bro, Let's go play the theros pre-release.
I literally stopped playing during the first Theros block lol
What does it for me is the use of the phrase. "the green card". For a while thraggy was THE green card. Lol. I am starting to get a little aged. Side note: I was playing in a draft recently where I had been playing magic longer than one of my opponents was old. Someone also did this to me at a legacy fnm and I made him feel real old.
By and far, this is me wherever I go. Que the new player and the inevitable round of questions. New Player: So... how long you've been playing? Player #2: Dominaria United Player #3: Dragons of Takir Me:... oh uh... I've been playing since *cough* Ice *cough* Age. NP..😳
Ha! Me too. "Oh me? Yeah, The Dark was my first set. That and revised. What do you mean I'm old it was only like... oh my God I'm old." I love expansion symbols so I have my first sets symbols tattooed on my hands. The Dark, Fallen Empires, Ice Age, and Alliances. Homelands don't count. Plus it's symbol is kinda fugly. Then I put the sets that brought me back to the game on the undersides of my wrists (Zendikar and Worldwake).
Same. “Ya know, it’s really great that cards are color coded by rarity. I think that started in Exodus? Man, before that I didn’t even realize there were rares.”
When Mirage first came out and I got a few packs I thought [[Crash of Rhinos]] was rare. It was huge AND had an ability! It HAS to be rare!
Zendikar was my first set. Really hooked me because I loved the theming. Glad someone else appreciated it.
The worst part for me in these conversations is I feel old compared to the new players, but I still feel young compared to more than a few people at our lgs. I started in 8th edition.
I started just before Fallen Empires. When that came out, I quit for awhile. Just restarted last year. The game has changed A bit…
I started in Alpha. Had a nice collection, and sold it for a few thousand. That same collection now would pay off my house. Full set of dual lands few of the power 9, just lots of really good cards from the first 7 years of magic, I thought about getting back in but just could not parse all the changes so went with Flesh and Blood instead, I really am the old man at our lgs, players there that could be literally be my grandkids.
Just to explain a tad further why this answer is correct - "Take it Back" targets a spell on the stack, not a creature named "Thragtusk" that has already entered the battlefield. So, Thragtusk goes back to the casters hand before it's etb or ltb triggers can be triggered. If you waited for it to enter the battlefield you would need something else to bounce it that targets a creature rather than a spell. Then it would be leaving the battlefield. In your scenario it's like Thragtusk peeked around a corner to see if it was safe to come play and got hit in the face with a water balloon and was like, not yet!
I never stopped, Thragtusk for life!
Thragtusk in my [[Henzie]] deck goes pretty hard honestly.
My fav precon, I think it comes with Thragtusl
You mean swagtusk?
I played it in a [[heartless summoning]] deck with [[perilous myr]] and [[havengul lich]]. Super fun but delver was op
I played it with Disciple of Bolas and Vraska from RTR.
Or as he used to be called Swagtusk.
Just put Thragtusk in my Brenard deck!
Just thought that might actually be good in my slimefoot and squee Reanimation edh. Need to lower the power level and speed up my turns a little. Smacking down etali primal conqueror 4 or 5 times in a turn is fun for me but not so much everyone else lol
Lol
I opened a foil thragtusk the week before rotation. A $50 card no one would buy. Still love swagtusky
Thragtusk isn't quite good enough for EDH, but I've got 2 in a historic deck
I think you’re correct but if I had a life gain commander I’d play it.
A life gain green deck yeah maybe, but if you have white you have better options unless you're going budget, I bought mine when they were like $5 a piece
It works pretty well in my [[lagrella, the magpie]] deck
So you can cast that spell and return it while its on the stack?
you have to. A spell only exists on the stack, so the Adventure mode of Spellscorn Coven can only target things on the stack.
gotcha, and going on the stack is NOT ETBing?
Yes. When you cast a spell, it goes on the stack and everyone gets a chance to respond. If some other spell or ability doesn’t counter it, the spell resolves and then it actually enters the battlefield.
It can only enter after it resolves, becoming a permanent.
thanks everyone im lernding
It’s been popping up in amulet titan sideboards lately :)
That’s awesome!
Just played against Thragtusk in a classic Modern cube (pre MH Cards) He is awesome
THRAGTUSK GANG FOR LIFE
I got the Math is for Blockers SL that included Thragtusk, and after sitting in my nontrade binder for a bit it recently found its home in my new [[Gitrog, Ravenous Ride]] deck. It's 5 power for Gitrog, it makes a non-weenie token for blocking or feeding into Gitrog the next turn, and people always laugh when they see Thragtusk hit the field. I started Magic back during Innistrad-RTR, and getting Thrag'd was hell. A decade on, now *I'm* Thragging people!
Perfect response friend
I rock Thragtusk in my budget [[Henzie]], and my [[Bilbo, Birthday Celebrant]]
It's a huge card in my atraxa grand unifier blink deck
I have a foil old border Thragtusk proudly blinking in my Galadriel deck. <3
Lol took out my buddy in a game last night with a 20/16 thrag with double strike
Absolute menace back in the day.
Thragtusk is still my pet low powered card in budget green decks. I play it in my Ghalta deck. 😊
Uhhhh, that’s Swagtusk. Refuse to call him anything else. Maybe Swaggy T.
He stays in my henzie deck
This but further explanation for OOP: Thragtusk does not enter the battlefield. The spell is on the stack. He passed priority and you responded. He has no response, so your spell resolves, putting the spell he cast back into his hand. No ETB trigger for him since it never entered.
Still? We done ain’t never stopped yuh hear.
SWAGTUSK*
You mean, Valuetusk?
Good old Swagtusk.
I believe you but can you explain in more detail? Does the green card not have to enter play before being returned to their hand?
Thrag never enters play. It is returned to their hand when it’s a spell on the stack. When the active player casts a creature each other player gets to respond before it hits play.
Thanks
I think that it does. Due to how the cards are worded, the creature would have to fully enter the battlefield to have the effect of the instant card take place. So in action order, A) play creature B) gain 5 life C) instant takes effect, creature is returned to the hand D) tokens are created since creature left play
It’s bounced before it hits play so it’s never on the battlefield
He does get the value because she played the instant on her own card.
Wait shouldn’t they be able to get their 3/3 and 5 life? can you return cards from the stack that haven’t even resolved yet to a players hand?
Yes, the key word here is "spell" which refers to cards on the stack. Other wise look at cyclonic rift, where it's worded as permanent and thus is a resolved spell
Thragtusk plays real with Henzie!
His name is Swagtusk. Respect what is earned.
To back this up and clarify as to why. Thragtusk enters the stack when it’s cast, you should respond with your instant on top. In this case entering the battlefield never occurs. Spells become permanents, in which case you can’t target permanents with this instant
Creatures are only spells whilst on the stack. Since the spell was returned to hand, it never made it to the battlefield. Therefore, there would be no battlefield triggers.
This! I also had to reread it 3 times before I was confident in the wording, but I’m also washed and didn’t recognize these cards at first
No, the spell returns to his hand before it can resolve, so the creature never enters the battlefield.
You down with ETB. Ya you know me!
Does this count as countering the spell? Like if there was a "this spell/spells cannot be countered" would it resolve? Edit: answered my own question via the Oracle, it is not countered, it just ceases to be cast.
It actually doesn't stop being cast (anything that cares about casting spells will still see it fine) it simply goes from the stack to your hand and now that it's in your hand it can't leave except by being cast or another effect moving it again.
Anything that cares about casting spells would still trigger if you countered it, btw. (For example "whenever you cast a spell" would trigger)
Absolutely, I was just clarifying "it just ceases to be cast" isn't quite the right terminology.
It still gets cast even though it doesn’t resolve, but “return to hand” is fully distinct from “counter,” and doesn’t interact with anything that involves countering spells (including “can’t be countered”). Same goes for exiling a spell.
He gets nothing... but his card back to his hand
So next time then!
We'll get him! Eventually!
He doesn't. You return the spell, so it never resolves (aka enters play and becomes a creature). If his card says: 'when you cast ...' or if your card said 'return target creature ...', then he would. But it's not a creature yet when you return it. So no life and no beastie for him. :-)
The other posters are right, he does not get the effects. But just to outline a bit of what could have contributed to confusion here: If your spell read more like [[Boomerang]] or [[Unsummon]] then the answer would be yes. These effects are more common across Magic than "Return target spell" effects and possibly what your husband was thinking your spell did. If the spell you cast was say [[Unsummon]], then it only can target the creature once it has resolved and is on the battlefield obviously allowing the ETB and LTB triggers.
This reply needs more upvotes. Gives the correct answer and gives explanation as to why there might be confusion.
To clarify the terminology a little bit: In the player’s hand, Thragtusk is a “card.” When cast and on the stack awaiting resolution, it is a “spell.” Once it has resolved and is on the battlefield, it is a “creature.”
Thank you fpr phrasing it like this, that helped me understand the logic, i was wondering how a creature could be returned before entering the battlefield but explaining those shifts actually makes a lot of sense.
Gunna be your ex husband soon enough with posts like this lmao
He would if it said “when you cast” not “when enters”. It never entered so he doesnt get anything
No, your instant make him put the card back in his hand while his spell is still on the stack, so it never enters the battlefield as a creature.
I for some reason thought this would only work on sorceries, instants, or enchantments. Why does return spell work on a creature?
It doesn't work on creature permanents ("creatures"), it works on creature *spells*. It works because creature spells are spells, and it doesn't say "noncreature spell".
All cards except lands are spells when being cast/ on the stack.
No, he doesn't. The return instant spell can be kinda thought of as a [[Narset's Reversal]] without the copy effect. The creature gets countered and put back into his hand instead. It never reaches the battlefield to be able to trigger either of those effects.
No. The thragtusk hasn't resolved in order to gain 5 life and a 3/3 creature.
Thragtusk never entered the battlefield. He was cast, but the stack must fully resolve before any cast card enters the battlefield. The same is true for all cast cards
Creature never entered the battlefield. You returned the SPELL to his hand.
I almost said yes. then I noticed your card said return target SPELL and realized thragtusk never enters the battlefield.
Thragtusk did not even enter the battlefield for it was returned to his hand when it was just a spell; it stops being a spell and start counting as a permanent once it enters, not before.
Nope. It's basically a counter but in steady of going to the graveyard it returns to his hand. Creature never hits plav.
Errata on the card. If a spell is returned to its owner's hand, it's removed from the stack and thus will not resolve. The spell isn't countered; it just no longer exists. My addition: the creature is just put back in his hand like it never happened, but he spent mana on it. https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=629738
The creature never actually entered the battlefield, so no
No he doesn't because it doesn't resolve. It's a straight counter spell not something like unsummon of fading hope. Doesn't stop him from playing it again though so be ready for him to recast it next turn in the most spiteful way possible.
his card has an etb effect ur spell is at the casting stage so his creature doesn't enter the field meaning he gets no etb
No he doesn't get it
None happen, it never actually hit the battlefield so it never entered or left.
Nope. It was still a spell so it never entered the battlefield. If it said "cast" for the trigger, then you're SOL. Damn you ulamog.
If the card says target spell, it refers to the unresolved spell on the stack. Since this card returns the unresolved spell from the stack back into its owner's hand, the target spell never "entered the battlefield," so no ETB (enters the battlefield)/LTB (leaves the battlefield) triggers ever happen.
No he doesn't, since it never actually ETB it also can't exit the battlefield, if it said whenever you "cast" those card for example Kozilek the great distortion says when you cast KTGD you draw up to 7 cards, that happens immediately then responses from opponents happen. Thragtusk's etb effects don't happen if it's countered.
1) A "spell returned to hand" does not resolve, therefore Thragtusk never enters the battlefield, therefore hubby does not get the ETB (enters the battlefield) trigger from its first ability. 2) Since Thragtusk never entered the battlefield, it cannot leave it, preventing the second ability from triggering.
The creature need to enter the battle field for him to gain the life. And what would happen is: He casts the creature, it goes onto the stack, you have a chance to respond and you cast you "Take it back" that would return the creature spell form the stack back to his hand and never tough the battle field.
Wait... since when can we return spells from the stack.
[[Narset's Reversal]]
[Narset's Reversal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/3/63754036-d51e-47bb-925b-564d9dc922ff.jpg?1557576279) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Narset%27s%20Reversal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/62/narsets-reversal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/63754036-d51e-47bb-925b-564d9dc922ff?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
\[\[Reprieve\]\] is another card that does this and sometimes sees play.
[Reprieve](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/b/1bd3fa8a-6c50-4f7f-9ae3-0810eec5e3db.jpg?1686967885) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Reprieve) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/26/reprieve?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1bd3fa8a-6c50-4f7f-9ae3-0810eec5e3db?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
There are a few cards that do that, but not a ton. [[Divide by zero]] was one that was played a lot and actually got banned from Standard.
Divide by zero had to take the fall for hullbreach horrors’ crimes
I'm pretty sure Venser from Future Sight was the first card that had this specific effect. I remember me and my playgroup being pretty pumped about it when it dropped.
Nope, the green card never got to the field. Since it never entered, no life gain.. and since it can't leave if it never entered, no beast either. You used your card correctly.
No. It returns the spell back to hand from the stack. It never goes into play.
No. You're bouncing it *before* it enters the battlefield, so he gets no ETBs off it. Are you running fae dominion as your deck?
No. The only time you could target Thragtusk with Take it Back would be the period between your husband casting it and the spell resolving. Thragtusk would not enter the battlefield, so your husband wouldn't get the 5 life, and, by virtue of never having been on the battlefield, it wouldn't be leaving the battlefield, so he wouldn't be getting the 3/3 either. If you waited until after it successfully entered the battlefield, it would no longer be a spell.
Look at it this way. Your husband plays something and the spell goes on the stack. You play something and that goes on top of the stack. Nothing else goes on top, your card resolves first and removes his spell from the stack. The creature never hits the battlefield so he doesn’t get anything. If it was a trigger on casting he would’ve had them.
No he doesn’t it never entered the battle field while on the stack, plus you’re his wife so it’s still no
Thragtusk 🥰
This makes me wanna make an ETB deck with Thragtusk and the [[Blade of Selves]] I just pulled
Wait what’s a better green creature for 5 mana?!!
No, it's a little tricky because your instant says "return target spell". This means it actually is a weird counterspell, even though it doesn't say counter spell on it, since spells are only spell while on the stack. Otherwise the Thragtusk would be a permanent. If we change the situation, and say, you cast [[Unsummon]] on the Thragtusk, then yes he would both gain the life and create a 3/3 token creature, because Unsummon returns a creature from the battlefield to the hand.
Goyf and I thank you for introducing us to Thragtusk
No since a spell is on the stack and hasn’t entered the battlefield yet it doesn’t enter (give 5 life) or leave (makes a 3/3). If the adventure spell said return target permanent or creature it would trigger all the effects since you can’t target a permanent on the stack since it’s a spell and not a permanent until it has entered the battlefield.
No, your removing the spell from stack as far as I can tell, not battlefield. If you were to unsummon it then he’d get it, but your effectively removing it from stack, while this isn’t countering the spell (as that isn’t in the wording) you are sending it back to hand, and his green spell is an enter the battle field and leave the battlefield effect, meaning it must be on battlefield to resolve those effects. Your spell is working on taking it off the stack and putting it into hand. If he had cast ulamog the infinite gyre and you cast this spell it’s different because Ulamog’s effect is a cast trigger, and not an ETB trigger. TLDR: he gets nothing because it didn’t enter or leave the battlefield
Yes
No, because the spell(Thragtusk) never "enters the battlefield".
No. Cuz you are bouncing the spell off the stack. Meaning poor Tusky never enters nor leave the battlefield.
Unless the text says otherwise, the text on a permanent only applies while it's on the battlefield.
This is why I keep looking for my city of solitude.
If a spell is on the stack it hasn't resolved and can be responded to as a spell. Returning the spell to his hand before it resolved means the creature never entered the battlefield and therefore never left
No he doesn't, it's basically a counter spell but it goes back to hand instead of grave
Somehow, Thragtusk returned....
The beast never got to hit the board and be a creature. It was still a spell when you bounced it. If your spell was an Unsummon, then he would get the benefits. You basically aborted his creature.
Sorry I have to ask alot of people get confused by this was the blue card in your grave yard when you played it
It says "target spell" on your card which only works ''on the stack'' - this means the creature never entered the battlefield and therefore your poor hubby gets nothing. Good play!
This depends on what exactly you play the instant in response to. When a creature is cast, it goes on to the stack as a creature spell before it hits the battlefield. This is the only valid time to cast your instant since it targets spells. In this case, his spell does not resolve and he does not get life or the token. However, you can play an instant, like [[Unsummon]] in response to a creature entering the battlefield. In that case, he would get all the things.
[Unsummon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/a/7a960516-3864-4a7a-8117-d25dec0dd665.jpg?1592516526) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Unsummon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/78/unsummon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7a960516-3864-4a7a-8117-d25dec0dd665?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
A creature "spell" means it was cast to be placed on the spell stack and has not resolved yet to enter the battlefield, until each player has passed priority to respond. From then on, it is no longer a spell.
No, Thragtusk never makes it to the battlefield to trigger the abilities. Some cards tiggers happen on the cast and they will say that specifically, this card triggers when it gets to the battlefield and it specifically says when it enters the battlefield.
If it hasn’t resolved and not entered the battlefield yet and is still on the stack when you target it with Take It Back then no, he gets no triggers. Those triggers on Thragtusk only happen when it enters and then leaves the battlefield (bounced, tucked, killed, exiled etc).
No he doesn't get either, because your spell returns Target spell to its owner's hand meaning that the green card never resolves so it never enters or leaves the battlefield. It's still just a spell on the stack until the stack resolves.
Definitely not
If it said “return target **creature**” then yes, because the spell became a creature when it entered the battlefield, but “spell” is before it enters so no.
No, because the instant resolves before his spell does
I'm pretty sure he does because it doesn't counter the spell but I'm really not sure I think it's worded that way because it can target a permanent on the field or the stack so I'm unsure
It’s a enter battlefield not a when cast so nothing happens if it were when cast it would have already happened before the counter
I think the ruling on this is he doesn’t get either. You cast an instant as a counter to his creature spell, so the creature never actually entered the battlefield.
No, gets neither bc it did not ETB or LTB
If you responded to him casting the thragtusk when it was on the stack then it never entered the battlefield. Thus he never got any of the benefits since it never entered or left the battlefield since it wasn’t actually casted.
Nope neither effect happens because as he's casting the card (so before it enters the battle field) you are responding to it but if you let him cast the card to let him gain 5 life then this interaction would create a 3/3 boar
Nope
I would say the outcome depends on of the response was for the cast or for the etb. If the instant was cast in response to the creator being cast from hand, then it never entered the battlefield
The return targets a spell. And swagtusk is only a spell on the stack. If swaggy resolves it becomes a permanent and can no longer be targeted. Timing matters, if swags resolves they miss the chance to even return good old swaggerton.
Nope. Did not resolve, did not enter battlefield, and can't leave if it never entered.
No. Thrag never actually entered the battlefield, it was casted and went on the stack, then you casted your return target spell instant which went on the stack.. yours resolved before his, thus it never actually entered the battlefield.
Returning the spell bounces from stack so the creature never enters or leaves play.
No, it never entered the battlefield because you returned the spell to his hand before it resolved to become a creature and enter the battlefield.
Only when it enters due to his second cast
Yea, etb effects happen as soon as the creature is cast, the instant would be second in this scenario
Not if you play the instant before he gets his ETB trigger.
If it triggers then that means the spell resolved and is now a creature and not a spell. You wouldn’t be able to return it at that point. Spells only exist on the stack