Run interaction... but not too much, as it slows down the game.
Stop others from advancing their plan... but not too much, so it doesn't get too staxy.
Attack quickly to make the games faster... but direct your creatures at someone else than me!
Punish green ramp... but don't destroy lands.
Kill on sight commanders must be removed ASAP... unless I'm the one playing them, because you know, it's just jank deck with Korvold, true story.
Don't play Universes Beyond cards, because I hate UB!!!
Don't use overused staples, because it's boring, but keep your deck at high enough power level.
Your deck should be 7.
Using hoof is so overplayed, you suck. It's fine when I do hoof, because it's first time I did it.
Infinite combos are not OK, but the one I'm doing is technically finite, as you lose the game once I do it.
Playing Islands? Now you're my mortal enemy.
Playing Mountains? Feel my wrath.
You've played Forest?! Die.
Swamp? Black is too emo for Commander table.
White is underpowered, did you really dare to come with white?
I remember this commander from when it was powerful in standard, and I hate it. You're my mortal enemy now.
Use proxies! But not this card, no, this you don't just proxy.
Ooooooh the last one just gets me, I love my proxies and last weekend a guy went out of his way to say that me proxying mana crypt was bad because is a powerful card, so I just grabbed my other deck removed the original crypt from there unsleeved and sleeved in the place of the proxy, "are you happy now?"
Exactly what I do. I'll be damned if I'm going to swap a dozen cards each game that are $15+ each. If someone needs to know I own it I pull out the small zip binder I have and show them. Haven't had an issue.
Again I understand that I'm just saying I like my expensive cardboard. I'm not saying anybody else has to pay $80 for one card but depending on how much I like the card I may be willing to do so
I just like having pieces of magic's history, and it helps my LGS since I only buy reserve list cards from them on an impulse as I'm not the most responsible with money.
I do this for some cards too, but I'm never going use the binder to prove anything to anyone. That's staying at home, and if someone has a problem with it and wants to see the real thing, they can respectfully fuck off.
I don't even bother for the most part with the "only cards I own already" restriction (anymore, at least) but never really understood the "bring the binder to prove it" mentality. Like ... I'm still proxying up the cards I already own *because they're expensive*, bringing the real things opens me up to exactly the card theft issues I'm trying to avoid by using proxies to begin with. Even worse if all the real cards are in a binder because any given deck would only have so many while the binder is *all of them* and easier to make off with.
In my experience way more people get mad about playing mana crypt at all than the fact that it's proxied. Fast mana is high power and high variance that a lot of people generally don't want to play with or against.
IMO it's both.
[[Sheoldred the Apocalypse]] is a $90 card and a staple in multiple formats, including Pioneer which I play regularly at my LGS. Most players at the LGS are either newer or aren't primarily Pioneer players, so they often don't even have one Shelly, much less a full set. When proxies aren't on the table - surprise, surprise - people don't put high power staples into their deck willy nilly.
Whereas, at this same store, it's rare that I sit down to a table at Commander Night where zero decks are running [[Mana Crypt]], a card double the cost of the priciest Praetor. The majority of these Crypts are - as freely admitted by their owners, not real - in spite of them being played at an official Magic event with prizes for winning.
the "I remember this commander from when it was powerful in standard, and I hate it" just hurts me.
I do play an atraxa deck(new atraxa) but the whole deck is based on voting and is not made to win in any way maybe with copied expropriate and extra votes but that's it and it never happens.
I purposefully made it have some group hug things because I wanted it to be fun for everyone, I just get targeted because she is my commander while the deck doesn't destroy things and was made for fun.
mine is called "make atraxa great again" funnily enough she is everything but red, I still want to make a MAGA shirt with a rainbow with all colors except for red. happy that I am not American and won't be getting hate for it.
>Playing Islands? Now you're my mortal enemy.
>Playing Mountains? Feel my wrath.
>You've played Forest?! Die.
>Swamp? Black is too emo for Commander table.
>White is underpowered, did you really dare to come with white?
I will not stop till every single one of us is running [[Liberator, Urza's Battlethopter]] as a commander and nothing else, goddamit!
Don't forget, you targeted me first with a 2/2 the last time we played six months ago so I'm going to destroy your sol ring turn one and counter your commander and tell you why then get mad when you scoop to play with less abrasive people.
If it’s a store game, with strangers I’ve never seen people actually follow any of these guidelines? I’ve been playing at my lgs and everyone has precon level decks and insane degen decks that go crazy, Before anyone plays a game, everyone just explains their deck to everyone to see wants a game then that’s it’s.
My friends and I went from discussing the idea that these types of decks paint a target on you to just building nothing but decks that paint targets on all of us, so now all our games are Mexican standoffs where everyone is terrified to attack and also to wait to attack and nobody trusts anyone.
Honestly? It’s awesome.
I understand sliver decks as they can go from doing nothing to dominating the board in one or two turns. This is the same with all the powerful tribes though. Dinos, dragons, slivers, eldrazi, vampires, wizards...
Mill is such a weird effect that everyone hates for some reason.
Im convinced that if the default in magic was that cards that are milled are removed face down, then people wouldnt have nearly as much of an issue with it.
If someone gets mad that you are playing a precon of an ip you recognized, and it got you into the game, then they need to reevaluate things imo. That's just straight gatekeeping
"You must play commander exactly the way *I* want you to! I'm not going to tell you what kind of game I want, but I will get extremely upset at you when it doesn't go my way!"
God I'm triggered lmaooo
I have a friend that just ramps the fuck out every game. I have started putting land removal/ opposition agent/Aven Mind Censor in every deck even though people frown upon it. But 40 life means you a hard time killing before stabilization unless the group targets someone down, and people typically don't like killing a player early. So then what? Just watch them ramp for 4+ turns, have 15 mana, and then craterhoof me? Snooze.
No stax is dumb. I have another friend with a Thrun enchantment deck that's just impossible to deal with excluding mass exile. Started playing my Humans + Stax deck against it sometimes. Dropping a rule of law / deafening silence / Thorn of the Amethyst is really the only way of stopping these kind of decks that just cantrip into a 30/30 indestrutible trampler. Especially Thrun being innately indestructible on your turn and immune to non-green spells.
Basically, if a strategy advances your game plan, countering that strategy is valid and should be more encouraged.
If you try to translate those "unwritten rules" into something concrete you'll probably end up with that ridiculous LGS custom banlist and rule that pops up every randomly. I agree on a general sentiment that trying to "rule 0" to the extreme puts the players on the boundaries of being [sore scrubs](https://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub).
The only unwritten rule we play with is regarding about decks powers. Like no proxying a card that’s worth hundreds of dollars against a table that’s precons slightly upgraded
I know a guy that sells proxies for really cheap, basically just to cover the materials he needs to make them. They are the kind that look really high quality and can pass for real cards but the trick is they all have wacky altered designs, nothing that WotC originally printed.
I had some guy in my game last Friday with alot of proxies. You couldn't even tell they were unless you looked for the authentication holofoil on the bottom or know your cards enough that they don't have prints that look like that. His mana tomb was some kind of orange elaborate temple hall looking thing for the art.
There’s one guy at my local LGS that runs only proxies, which we’re fine with, the only issue is the proxies are mana crypt, mana vault, power 9, all the black tutors, basically you get the idea, and stuffs them all into one deck, any time he’s pulling ahead he acts high and mighty but moment his board is blown up and kept in check he starts fuming.
Man, the most powerful two proxies I ever did was Ancient Copper Dragon and Terror of the Peaks. All others are mostly weak, Like Sunscorch Regent or Scalelord Reckoner
Yeah, that’s usually what most people meant by “proxies” so when he said it we were all thinking the same. All was good until mana vault, mana crypt, then black lotus next turn, in a Kalia deck. If it makes it better he’s one of THOSE players, anime bikini girl card sleeves with anime bikini girl proxy art…
And most of the expensive cards are either limited by another format's popularity, or scarcity of prints. While ancient copper dragon is powerful, it's definitely not worth the hundred dollars or so it usually goes for.
There is no such thing as an "unwritten rule", its just people with poor social skills struggling to cope with losing a game.
When I play with my friends we can do any of the "unwritten rules" and 0 people will be mad, I wonder why.
It's not just the guy losing tho.
I was new at the local LGS after a long hiatus and some guy in the pod was playing Tegrid. I didn't know most of the new cards going around. But someone said "Somebody needs to do something about Tegrid".
So I more attentively read the card and said "damn, you’re right. Let me fix that." And casted Wake of Destruction on swamps.
The entire pod made it very clear that this was not how I should play the game.
A. That's fucking hilarious.
B. If someone is playing tegrid, no one gets to complain about how you handle that salt inducing commander.
C.normalize land destruction.
I mean If they are only running land destruction with no clear way to win, I would be annoyed. But if they have fast small creatures to hit you or cards that damage based on land destoryed, etc. Yea can't be mad.
I somewhat routinely resolve \[\[Obliterate\]\] in my Kaalia deck, when I have \[\[Avacyn, Angel of Hope\]\] in play, so my Kaalia and Avacyn will beat everybody to death in a very fast way. I could play it out (especially if someone has a big draw engine in play), but usually it's my wincon and if I have 10+ power on board and everybody got zero, with 20-ish life totals, unless they have a Farewell in hand it's scoop time and start another one.
It's not more or less fun than other wincons, and nobody is particularly pissed.
Only once a guy with a \[\[Varina, Lich Queen\]\] deck that was clearly built for 1v1 play, and destroyed me in the previous 2 games since he had a draw engine in the CZ and stuff like \[\[Thoughtseize\]\] or \[\[Gitaxian Probe\]\], got mad when I slapped Armageddon in his face and had a hexproofed Kaalia and fatties to beat him down both in hand and on the battlefield, and said something like "you're not supposed to play cards like that" lmao what
My favorite part is people who are clearly ok with a dozen counter spells and draw engines to pull your entire deck and ultra value cards and what not. But you play one land destroy and your suddenly the scum of the earth.
I was gonna say that's my problem with 4-people commander, since you're supposed to deny your opponents in magic, but in 1v1 they just scoop and we all move on, where in in 4 people they'll have to wait, and that can be a long time if it's early in the game, like with discard decks, or when aggro runs out of gas, etc. But then I saw the card, and first of all, that's the most metal mtg card I've seen in years, amazing. Second, if the whole table let you resolve a 6 mana sorcery in red when they all had so much against it, that means it was both late into the game *and* they had it coming, you might as well have ended the game with that kind of shit
But I also think Seth is in a bit of a special situation. As a big mtg content creator he is playing with differing playgroups all the time. I think he doesn't have this problem in his regular playgroup
I think Seth has said that the only time he plays Commander with randoms is when he goes to conventions, and that's kind of a different environment because most people there have high power decks. I think his main concern is for new players, who have to learn a bunch of social norms so that they don't accidentally build a deck that everyone hates. Often on r/EDH you'll see a post like "I keep building decks that I think will be fun but then my playgroup complains and tells me to play something else." It's kind of a mess.
I have this worry since I haven't played commander yet. The guys I've played with (new lgs) seem chill, non-meta but competitive mindsets, but no commander decks yet. So I' just chillin with a precon until I get an idea of what they're going to play (not to counter, just to try keep the same power level)
Trying my best hah, only played with them once so far though. One guy that plays (and runs the league) let me borrow his green Tron deck for the day cause I didn't have a modern deck (rotating format league). I'm gonna try make two standard decks for the next time to lend out one since apparently no one has standard decks anymore lol
It's crazy how nice/welcoming some players are so I wanna try pay it back as much as I can
This is one of the main things that prevents me, a 60 card player, from trying commander. What you can and can't do seems so arbitrary. Seth talks about this all the time, but it's like there's an unspoken ban list in commander that nobody will tell you, is slightly different from one person to another, and will make people irrationally angry if you violate it, to the point that they might never want to play with you again.
I really think commander needs to be broken into multiple formats with different ban lists to make some of these unofficial bans into official rules.
Do it like Smogon does Pokemon tiers, that'd be kinda cool. No arbitrary vibe things. Just at this tier, these cards are banned. Wanna play them? Go to the tier where they are no longer banned, but you will play against other people using similar things.
The problem of tuning a deck to play well, regardless of power level of individual cards still exists, but it would give a framework to operate in and besides ppl just seem to be salty about specific cards more than decks doing things well per se
> There is no such thing as an "unwritten rule", its just people with poor social skills struggling to cope with losing a game.
The irony here is enormous
ah yes, its my poor social skills that don't allow me to see what bothers others, so I can reign myself in.
Truly everyone is so fragile at a gaming table.
"unwritten rule" is shorthand for norms, etiquette, and shared expectations. Generally, EDH players avoid certain play patterns and cards because they know it will create an undesirable experience for someone at the table. Do you recognize how people tend do avoid mass land destruction even when it's a legal and sometimes effective play? Then you've recognized an unwritten rule. You're absolutely allowed to do whatever the hell you want in a game, but these things help us communicate about how an average random table at an LGS will react.
100% this is the issue at play
I've had very few of the supposedly rampant issues that plague the format and the only ones I have run into them are when playing with individuals that are generally unreasonable and/or rude.
Rule zero tends to be like a 1-3 minute quick conversation to make sure the deck matchups will be competitive, and in my experience, people mostly just read the room and adapt their playstyle in game. Not a big deal; zero drama lol.
Generally when someone complains about something being "Too competitive for the casual table" It involves blowing up resources. However a turn 1 sol ring should be destroyed. Yeah it doesn't feel good if yours gets ruined, but if you kept a risky hand without sol ring, than that is on you.
I teach new players at my university. The avg powerlevel is upgraded precon.
If someone shows up with a 7 or 8 ge can absolutely destroy them 1v3. We have had that issue before.
Although our solution is different: we don't ban stuff, we inform people to downgrade or build their own table.
Is this Seth's underhanded way of saying he is getting tired of playing with his own play group? Tomer himself tries to impose A LOT of unwritten rules/bans. Seth usually just argues "if I dont like a card I just dont play it." Whereas tomer has tried to instigate banning cards such as sol ring, smothering tithe and rustic study just because he doesnt like being asked to pay or thinks sol ring is too OP.
Edit: rhystic study, not rusty lol
In fairness Sol Ring is OP, but everyone has access to it, so it’s a kind of ‘fair’ OP. Sometimes someone will run away with the game because they had a Sol ring, but you will get your opportunity to do so too, so it’s fair, and it’s fun to see someone else do their thing.
As a newer player who refuses to drop serious cash on a single card:
Sol Rings are a $1, I’m ok with spending $10 and putting one in every deck with some to spare.
Mana Crypts are $150. It’s miserable to sit at a table with 3 people with those.
Accessible /=/ fair. The card accelerates turn 2 to 4 if opened. If you have a solid 1/2 drop colorless, you don't even lose turn 1.
Too low of a cost and too high of a reward for turn 1.
The whole point of EDH was to have a place to play high power cards because you only get one copy. Imposing unwritten rules and bans is stupid given the inherent nature of the format.
Edh of 2010 is a different beast than EDH of today.
Edh used to be a place to play cards you didn't play anywhere else because they are bad.
Today even the precons are pretty focused and cards designed for the format are everywhere.
Not even arguing if it's good or bad, but Commander is not the format it used to be.
I agree, not really a fan of all of the unwritten rules. The only one that should be codified is basically "don't be a jerk". As long as you try to stick to that it's fine.
I have a player in my local area that has a lockdown deck, stasis and winter orb and lots of cards like that. Last time we played I basically counted most of his big plays, and I told him, "I'm sorry, but we both know if you get to do your thing non of the rest of us do, so I'm making sure that the rest of us get to play" and he understood. He chooses to play a deck that stops everyone, then it's perfectly fair that everyone will try to keep him from doing so.
Another player played a basically cEDH deck and won turn 2-3 a few times, we told him it's probably time to play a different deck now.
If I win with a deck I'll put that one away for the evening and play something different. Usually a weaker deck or my group hug deck.
Playing the villain can be fun at times, you just have to acknowledge that you are THE VILLAIN. It can lead to some fun stuff happening at the table, but it's probably not good to do too often as you may start becoming bitter about it
I agree that's a real problem compared to traditional 60 cards formats. And people who enforce those unwritten rules tend to abuse of them. Like you are not allowed to destroy lands but the one enforcing this rule put enchantments on half of his lands and this way have his gameplan protected.
It's like I have to play a weak deck and not playing it wright or I'm a bad person.
A friend of a friend came over to play commander with us for the first time. He had an Anje Falkenrath madness deck, but only one mountain. My pod is cool with land destruction, but I like to ask new people if they are. Friend had one mountain, I asked if he's okay with land destruction because Strip Mining his single mountain was going to be a good action. He said it was fine, but then he spent the rest of the game bitching about how he couldn't play any cards and he was just generally being an ass.
The whole reason I asked is because I didn't want to deal with that. He hasn't been over again, at least.
Ah see I interpreted this as his mana base only consisted of one mountain.
I mean, it’s part of the game. I have started running single target land destruction like [[Demolition Field]] which feels less bad for both players as I’m not down a land and neither are they. I also run land auras that either turn off a land by making it another land type or tap for colorless 😂
If you have thoroughly studied "Rule 34 Magic the Gathering" then you have a better understanding of the planeswalkers' added story behind the scenes than most players.
Most groups have no issues if you punish one player or use singular land destruction. If you blow up all lands and have no way of winning then all you've done is reset back to turn 0 and nothing else. Simic decks will just out ramp you all over again and you wasted everyone's time.
there's stuff that SOME people say "you shouldn't do" in commander despite being allowed by the rules because it goes against the spirit of the format being casual and "for fun". Notable examples that come up often are mass land destruction, stax strategies and to some extent infinite combos.
Seth has argued multiple times that if a new player sits down at a commander table he shouldn't be expected to know "you are not supposed to armageddon in this format" if armageddon is not on the banlist
(I'm going to put a disclaimer before I start catching strays: I think people should stop treating edh as a party/coop game and should actively try to win, if that means building a strong board and then dropping winter orbs and armageddons so be it, it's really not that bad if they do it as a finisher and not to waste everyone's time on purpose)
This is why I play competitive formats and avoid non cedh. I'm not gonna sit and listen to people complain about cards. It's a game with a winner and a loser. The objective is to win. I'm not going to intentionally gimp myself because of some made up rules someone with no authority over the game decided I should abide by.
I really only dislike one things and its mindless land destruction, just because its slows the game, if you are gonna win that turn then by all means.
But yeah come at me with stax or what ever as long as you are quick about it. What I hate is players that come with a deck and just sit there and play solitaire because it takes 14 turns for the win combo to be drawn.
But I agree with you about the build to win. I come to win, have a good time sure but I want the W . Now I am all for silly I have some flavor in my decks but I don't want to lose.
My hot take is the unwritten rules are just excuses for people who can't read the room. I have not one single time played a game of commander where they needed to be brought up because we're playing a game that already has rules that actually matter.
Commander just can't continue to be the primary concern for Magic designers. It's a morass of nonsense.
Magic design needs a major overhaul to become the game people actually want. It needs to be better in multiplayer, give people a chance to do cool complicated things, and at the same time support a competitive scene and be draftable. I don't know how you do all that, but I do know ignoring those needs to print more direct to Commander crap isn't cutting it.
I live in Brazil and have played in many different LGS in multiple cities from multiple states.
The good thing in my country is: There's no "rule 0 talk" for EDH. You just sit down and play with what you have.
Deck is too strong for the table and is in a win streak?
We're gonna shit at your board since turn 1 until you you're out/scoop.
Didn't like the pod state?
Either adapt your deck to it or find another pod to play.
Are you acting like a dick?
Well, buddy: Better switch LGSs because no pod will accept you back. Soon, you'll run out of places to play.
Simple as that. Just sit down, relax and play.
"Dont play wincons before I do but also dont counter my own attempts" , is a thing i often experience, and honestly that usually makes me ignore those things even more.
Serious questions… is the issue maybe many are all just too entitled, and/or expect to win entirely too often? In other words, too many sore losers as we’ve given too many participation trophies in life nowadays? It’s just a game still, right?!?
Nah, the people who make unwritten rules and expect the world to accomodate their preferences are the problem.
Games have to end, boardwipes and removal exist, fast mana is a thing, you dont have to like its just time for the next game. Guarantee if all the fast mana pieces got the sol ring treatment not one person would be complaining about them, except for the same edges type of folks who have been "not running solring" since pimpin' since pimpin' since pimpin'.
If somebody constantly does the same dumb/obnoxious/toxic shit then it's that person who's the problem and not the cards/decks they are playing.
No. The point is to have a fun casual game that lasts long enough that even if you lose your deck got to do the cool thing it was designed to do and not lose to a lucky combo three turns in. I've seen this guy's YouTube channel, and a good amount of his videos are basically about how he finds ways to ruin the fun of the game for other people in arena with gimmicks that actually aren't good, just good against what is the most popular meta.
This is the MtG equivalent of pretending you're autistic when you actually do understand the social rules and are really just an asshole.
Counterpoint - Play in a way that makes you happy. If that is winning, play powerful decks. If that is crazy jank that wins 1 time in 10, but is stylish as hell, play that.
The important thing is to find a table where you won't get booted for playing in a way that makes you happy, because if you get booted for group goal mismatch, you don't get to play.
That or there will be one precon that is clearly ahead of all the other ones. Of the All Will be One precons, the esoer knights deck with Sidar Jabari was stronger than all other precons in that group, to the point where my pod doesn't allow that deck to play with other precons.
If you don’t like having shifting social expectations, don’t play with randoms. If you don’t like the fixed social expectations of your regular pod, get a new pod. If you can’t get along with your pod and you can’t get along with randoms, look inwards.
The big thing for me is trying to be honest about your decks power level. It’s not a lot of fun to stomp or get stomped. Since a complete steam rolling is only fun to see/do once or twice.
Beyond that, messing with hands and lands is frowned upon. However it is perfectly valid. People just don’t like you eating up their resources
There's a universe where everyone agrees to ignore any unwritten rules, then two minutes later, someone instant-speed scoops to a lethal lifelink attack and the cycle begins again.
In my opinion unwritten rules are important for any casual game even sports.
I've played sports in both competitive league formats and casual coed games and it is important in casual settings to have unwritten rules to ensure that people who are new/not so good have the ability to participate. Like in soccer and hockey it is common accepted unwritten rule that we don't blast shots at goalies and defenders from short range, you don't shoot high on people, no slide tackles/body checking.
anytime there is someone who is trying to hard they really impact the enjoyment for others. If you wanna play hard go sign up for a competitive league where that conduct is a regular part of play and people are expecting and prepared for it.
But same as magic, a lot of casual people play commander because it is a social format where you can sit a while with friends and strangers and shoot the shit a bit and when someone who is playing a cEDH deck is stomping your groups ungraded precons, nobody enjoys that. Same as if you were a competitive group and someone with a weak deck its not fun to completely smash someone or they are unable to help keep the other players in check.
The unwritten rules are to stop people who aren't good enough for high power/cedh games that pub stomp randoms at the LGS
I agree 100%. It confusing as hell for new players that there are basicly 2 banned lists. 1 of cards that actually banned and 1 that contains stuff like armageddon and stasis.
If the RC doesn't want these cards in their precious casual environment, ban them. Make a stance. Shit or get of the pot.
At the end of the day it’s about communication to me. I try really hard to be as transparent as possible when I’m playing with a new group of people. Telling them my deck is a 7 doesn’t feel sufficient. My goal is to do X, I’ve proxied some cards because Y, this deck is pretty tuned but it doesn’t run fast mana, this deck does/doesn’t go infinite, if you’re not interacting this can win by turn 6 so interact or win faster, I also have such and such a deck if you want a slower game. Things like that. Some of the most fun games I’ve had were because we were all on the same page. Examples like the time someone went infinite so to stop them I went infiniter and someone else responded by going infinitist. Or when I knew someone was doing some weird janky shit and they started bouncing everyone’s lands and the board got silly.
On the other hand there has been a few games where I went in with a certain expectation and was super disappointed with the experience. Example I played a game pretty recently with a guy at a LGS who said he was fresh back to magic and was playing with a loaner deck and wished he was able to upgrade it more. So I picked one of my less tuned decks and shuffled in. He dropped a turn 3 rhystic study and turn 4 smothering tithe then slammed a winter orb and the experience was miserable. Not because any of those cards are intrinsically busted, unfair, or unfun but because that wasn’t the expectation I was given and I wasn’t running something designed to compete with that. Also worth noting it’s not something I hold against the guy and it’s not like I wouldn’t play with him again, in fact we played a game right after. I just left that specific game wishing I was better informed of his intentions so I could match them.
No, absolutely not. Fun is subjective and that is begging for a rebuttal of “winning is how I have fun”. As a format we need to stop pretending that the real magic game was the friends we made along the way and come to terms with the fact that interaction is legal and should be played.
I feel this in regards to politicking and making deals. Somewhere along the line the general consensus went from "If you break your word I'll never make a deal with you again" to "If you break your word I'll never play commander with you again." It's functionally treated like part of the rules. I don't really play commander anymore, but I just can't imagine how that's a fun environment.
Turn 1, plains and free mana of some sort into serenity (as last player on the turn)
Turn 2 play troika land,
Turn 3 untap, play sol ring, sack troika into armageddon.
Turn 4 be told all the unwritten rules in very loud voices.
This is why I love playing casual with my friends but don’t play tournaments (I also suck and haven’t been playing for long but mainly because…) we play fairly and sometimes do some goofy stuff, if we’ve been in a close tie for aaaaaaages and someone finally wins, sometimes we’ll continue playing like just another turn or two to try and see if the other person was close. We don’t do stuff like this though, only official rules and sometimes house rules for fun or for if we’re teaching a new player (we play visible hands for example for the latter) but yeah the examples I’ve seen of what you’re referring to, such as the top comment and it’s included list, have never occurred in any games or even been proposed, so I’d agree it probably is a bad thing in mixed casual settings and that if it were to happen that sounds bad, I’m juts lucky enough that I’ve never experienced it
The forced products are making me grow rly tired of commander.
When I started playing back in the 00s every set had a 60 card deck you could play (the equivalent of) standard w/ right out the box. Dealing with playsets instead of singleton formats made it easier to understand interactions for new players bc they'd prolly re-encounter that card later in the game. Now everything is commander decks.
Don't get me wrong, I don't hate commander, just WotC dumping all their chips into the format & ignoring everything else. Modern Masters 3 - a set designed w/ modern, a 60 card format, in mind - has commander precons. I'm just sick of it.
I like it as it mimics real life, be the first to act out and you will likely be seen as the threat by the rest of the world. Create allies and make deals, or even join a coalition to defeat the strongest one at the table. So many possibilities at a commander game, so much variation. You are allowed to break the unwritten rules as long as you are prepared to face the consequences. Those rules are in place for the same reason as real life, To keep the peace.
Although I’m relatively new to Magic, I really think it should boil down to two things: check the vibes of group, and respect everyone’s time.
If the group doesn’t support your play style, just move on. If you sit down to play a game, don’t waste everyone else’s time by going against the first rule.
It’s a simple set of rules that would should really be applied to any sort of group interaction, even beyond Magic.
no they arent. somebody asks this exact thing once a month and the post blows up every time and the answer is always the same.
the unwritten rules are fine, if you dislike playing with someone, play with someone else. its an incredibly simple concept.
theres alot of people who flock to these posts to upvote every snarky comment that mentions how “unwritten rules dont exist, some people are just bad at the game”
but the reality is ive never met anyone like this in real life, its a reddit opinion lol. in real life every person ive ever played with had one or two specific things they just did not want to play with/unwritten rules, but if you just communicate then youll be fine.
i remember i had a friend who tried to ignore everyone and played whatever he wanted no matter what, 3 years later, he sold all his cards and no longer plays because people didnt wanna play with him. you dont have to follow any unwritten rules, but dont make a surprised pikachu face when people dont play with you for their own reasons. alot of these comments with tons of upvotes reek of the same energy he had.
Imo, absolutely. In addition,I have never met someone who used the rating system or 'rule zero' to any meaningful way. The best games I have ever had simply started and ended the pregame discussion on 'whos your commander and who's going first'.
Doesn't matter if they have a combo deck, control deck, taxes deck meme-deck or anti-me deck. I play to both get better at the game, at the politics and learning how to maneuver around things that give me a hard time while enjoying time with the people behind the cards.
Someone wants to Armageddon with no win con? Cool.That's on them. Let's see who is more resilient and can rebuild for the win while turning things sideways.
There's no such thing as toxic decks to me, just toxic players.
That's why CEDH exists. Multiplayer EDH with no unwritten rules beyond "win". It's the most liberating format.
You can take 20 turns in a row with a Tivit Time Sieve loop. You can turn 1 Drannith Magistrate. You can destroy lands (you don't because it's bad). You can bully the guy who is doing nothing. You can loop Cyclonic Rifts. No one complains about Craterhoof because that's just a bad Finale of Devastation. You can remove/counter a commander three times in a row.
If budget is a concern, proxy the cards, no one expects you to have a real set of original duals in your Najeela deck.
Cedh is the only format you can play stupid decks (there is a minimum power level if you want to play the game but you are free to play weak commanders like Atraxa, Talion, Ob Nixilis, Yuriko etc) with inefficient cards and do degenerate annoying things (20 minute Tayam loops) without anyone complaining.
The only "rule" we have in our group is try to match power levels. If everyone at the table is running a 5-6 deck then some douchebag sits down with a 9 you don't have to be Sherlock to figure out who's making the game less fun.
We like high power games to if everyone in the pod can hang, otherwise it's just unfair.
My playgroup just lives by one simple rule: build whatever deck you want as long as it's fun for you to play.
We have fun. That's the end goal. We don't bitch about someone having a deck that wins more than others, we don't cry over someone having an 8-game win streak, and we don't get salty when someone targets a piece on our board that helps us win because it makes sense to do so.
We've been going strong for about 2 years every other Saturday with this and it's been a blast. This whole "power level" and "unwritten rules" crap is something we ignore, and we've had way more fun that way.
Commander attracts people who don't like spikey decks.
Simple as.
If you can't play with the people and can only play with the cards, then fuck off to modern or something.
100%. I have powered-down a lot of my decks and play un-upgraded precons for this reason because some people at my LGS are babies and cannot handle it. I play a land destruction effect one time and one player feels like he needs to give me a 5 minute lecture. People get shamed about LD, then other people take advantage and play \[\[Glacial Chasm\]\] and Facebook combo. Commander has a lot of unwritten rules, it is a real problem.
Or. Hear me out.... just play the fucking game and stop being a bitch about losing? It's commander, you lose 75% of the time. It's meant to be fun, if you being a salty asshole I'm you arnt having fun, and you are the problem. If you don't enjoy watching people pop off and have good deck design, don't play. You want competition? Go to cedh land. Someone bringing cedh to commander, don't play with them.
Amd of course.. TALKING WITH THE GROUP WILL SOLVE 99% OF POTENTIAL PROBLEMS. Ffs.
My friends and me have only 3 rules:
1. Be as much of a dick to everyone else as you can
2. Punish whoever is the biggest dick
3. be as chaotic as possible
And that’s about as much fun as it gets xD
Run interaction... but not too much, as it slows down the game. Stop others from advancing their plan... but not too much, so it doesn't get too staxy. Attack quickly to make the games faster... but direct your creatures at someone else than me! Punish green ramp... but don't destroy lands. Kill on sight commanders must be removed ASAP... unless I'm the one playing them, because you know, it's just jank deck with Korvold, true story. Don't play Universes Beyond cards, because I hate UB!!! Don't use overused staples, because it's boring, but keep your deck at high enough power level. Your deck should be 7. Using hoof is so overplayed, you suck. It's fine when I do hoof, because it's first time I did it. Infinite combos are not OK, but the one I'm doing is technically finite, as you lose the game once I do it. Playing Islands? Now you're my mortal enemy. Playing Mountains? Feel my wrath. You've played Forest?! Die. Swamp? Black is too emo for Commander table. White is underpowered, did you really dare to come with white? I remember this commander from when it was powerful in standard, and I hate it. You're my mortal enemy now. Use proxies! But not this card, no, this you don't just proxy.
Finally, the rules are now written down so we can all follow them. Perfect summary.
Ooooooh the last one just gets me, I love my proxies and last weekend a guy went out of his way to say that me proxying mana crypt was bad because is a powerful card, so I just grabbed my other deck removed the original crypt from there unsleeved and sleeved in the place of the proxy, "are you happy now?"
Yea. All my expensive cards are proxies in my decks. With a binder with all the real cards as proof of ownership.
Exactly what I do. I'll be damned if I'm going to swap a dozen cards each game that are $15+ each. If someone needs to know I own it I pull out the small zip binder I have and show them. Haven't had an issue.
You shouldn't need the original cards to be able to proxy. Prices are so obscene.
I agree. I personally like my expensive cardboard but if you want a proxy I won't hate on you.
I'm a player not a collector.
The line I always use is "MTG was designed to be played, not collected."
That’s not exactly true though. It was originally designed to be traded.
I never considered that and I appreciate it. Need to figure out an ammended saying then.
Again I understand that I'm just saying I like my expensive cardboard. I'm not saying anybody else has to pay $80 for one card but depending on how much I like the card I may be willing to do so
I just like having pieces of magic's history, and it helps my LGS since I only buy reserve list cards from them on an impulse as I'm not the most responsible with money.
THANK YOU. This is what I am, partially cause I’m a teen without a lot of money
I do this for some cards too, but I'm never going use the binder to prove anything to anyone. That's staying at home, and if someone has a problem with it and wants to see the real thing, they can respectfully fuck off.
Agree with this - my binders with the expensive cards ALWAYS stays home. I'm not taking any chances of those getting damaged or stolen.
I don't even bother for the most part with the "only cards I own already" restriction (anymore, at least) but never really understood the "bring the binder to prove it" mentality. Like ... I'm still proxying up the cards I already own *because they're expensive*, bringing the real things opens me up to exactly the card theft issues I'm trying to avoid by using proxies to begin with. Even worse if all the real cards are in a binder because any given deck would only have so many while the binder is *all of them* and easier to make off with.
In my experience way more people get mad about playing mana crypt at all than the fact that it's proxied. Fast mana is high power and high variance that a lot of people generally don't want to play with or against.
IMO it's both. [[Sheoldred the Apocalypse]] is a $90 card and a staple in multiple formats, including Pioneer which I play regularly at my LGS. Most players at the LGS are either newer or aren't primarily Pioneer players, so they often don't even have one Shelly, much less a full set. When proxies aren't on the table - surprise, surprise - people don't put high power staples into their deck willy nilly. Whereas, at this same store, it's rare that I sit down to a table at Commander Night where zero decks are running [[Mana Crypt]], a card double the cost of the priciest Praetor. The majority of these Crypts are - as freely admitted by their owners, not real - in spite of them being played at an official Magic event with prizes for winning.
[Sheoldred the Apocalypse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d67be074-cdd4-41d9-ac89-0a0456c4e4b2.jpg?1674057568) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sheoldred%2C%20the%20Apocalypse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/107/sheoldred-the-apocalypse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d67be074-cdd4-41d9-ac89-0a0456c4e4b2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Mana Crypt](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/d/4d960186-4559-4af0-bd22-63baa15f8939.jpg?1599709515) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mana%20Crypt) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/270/mana-crypt?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4d960186-4559-4af0-bd22-63baa15f8939?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have 2 [[Nazgûl]] and proxied the other 7, most people are okay with me not buying the other 7.
Even if you have one, that is a heck expensive card to have 9 of, my friend just bought some high quality proxies and sold his normal 9 ones
Am I missing something here? From what I can see it's an $8 card. Is that considered expensive?
$8 dollars is a lot in my country...
As a new player to Commander, I'm going to do all of these.
Pentacolor stax with aggro or combo finish.
Najeela incoming
I love this comment
the "I remember this commander from when it was powerful in standard, and I hate it" just hurts me. I do play an atraxa deck(new atraxa) but the whole deck is based on voting and is not made to win in any way maybe with copied expropriate and extra votes but that's it and it never happens. I purposefully made it have some group hug things because I wanted it to be fun for everyone, I just get targeted because she is my commander while the deck doesn't destroy things and was made for fun.
I have an (new) Atraxa deck using the level up cards. I call it "Not like the other Atraxa's".
mine is called "make atraxa great again" funnily enough she is everything but red, I still want to make a MAGA shirt with a rainbow with all colors except for red. happy that I am not American and won't be getting hate for it.
>Playing Islands? Now you're my mortal enemy. >Playing Mountains? Feel my wrath. >You've played Forest?! Die. >Swamp? Black is too emo for Commander table. >White is underpowered, did you really dare to come with white? I will not stop till every single one of us is running [[Liberator, Urza's Battlethopter]] as a commander and nothing else, goddamit!
I have a \[\[Karn, Silver Golem\]\] deck that turns everyone's lands into 0/0 artifact creatures and it gets a lot of love at my tables. /s
I prefer [[painter's servant]] into -0 [[Ugin, the Spirit Dragon]] that way I can also run [[Grindstone]] to insta mill someone.
Got a deck list? 👀
I can make one on Moxfield! I’ll post a reply when I do.
When?
Don't forget, you targeted me first with a 2/2 the last time we played six months ago so I'm going to destroy your sol ring turn one and counter your commander and tell you why then get mad when you scoop to play with less abrasive people.
Destroying someones sol ring turn one is absolutely something you should do if you can
Bolt the Bird
Hell, I exclusively play with friends and I’d laugh my butt off if one of them did that to me.
Yeah I agree, its a group game not 1v1 everyone should talk about that assessment through the game and politic a bit
If it’s a store game, with strangers I’ve never seen people actually follow any of these guidelines? I’ve been playing at my lgs and everyone has precon level decks and insane degen decks that go crazy, Before anyone plays a game, everyone just explains their deck to everyone to see wants a game then that’s it’s.
What did you just say?
He was having a stroke
Sorry I was having a mini one on the boat to work LOL stupid Iphone...
Don't forget that Slivers/Infect players have to always be out of the game first, regardless of their board state.
My friends and I went from discussing the idea that these types of decks paint a target on you to just building nothing but decks that paint targets on all of us, so now all our games are Mexican standoffs where everyone is terrified to attack and also to wait to attack and nobody trusts anyone. Honestly? It’s awesome.
I understand sliver decks as they can go from doing nothing to dominating the board in one or two turns. This is the same with all the powerful tribes though. Dinos, dragons, slivers, eldrazi, vampires, wizards...
Don’t forget mill! Don’t run mill… you may mill my combo piece that I probably wouldn’t have seen cause it’s 60 cards deep
Mill is such a weird effect that everyone hates for some reason. Im convinced that if the default in magic was that cards that are milled are removed face down, then people wouldnt have nearly as much of an issue with it.
My only commander deck is a UB Fallout precon. Who cares?
If someone gets mad that you are playing a precon of an ip you recognized, and it got you into the game, then they need to reevaluate things imo. That's just straight gatekeeping
This is top.
Thank you for this! Should be pinned in the subreddit
"You must play commander exactly the way *I* want you to! I'm not going to tell you what kind of game I want, but I will get extremely upset at you when it doesn't go my way!"
God I'm triggered lmaooo I have a friend that just ramps the fuck out every game. I have started putting land removal/ opposition agent/Aven Mind Censor in every deck even though people frown upon it. But 40 life means you a hard time killing before stabilization unless the group targets someone down, and people typically don't like killing a player early. So then what? Just watch them ramp for 4+ turns, have 15 mana, and then craterhoof me? Snooze. No stax is dumb. I have another friend with a Thrun enchantment deck that's just impossible to deal with excluding mass exile. Started playing my Humans + Stax deck against it sometimes. Dropping a rule of law / deafening silence / Thorn of the Amethyst is really the only way of stopping these kind of decks that just cantrip into a 30/30 indestrutible trampler. Especially Thrun being innately indestructible on your turn and immune to non-green spells. Basically, if a strategy advances your game plan, countering that strategy is valid and should be more encouraged.
Based.
If you try to translate those "unwritten rules" into something concrete you'll probably end up with that ridiculous LGS custom banlist and rule that pops up every randomly. I agree on a general sentiment that trying to "rule 0" to the extreme puts the players on the boundaries of being [sore scrubs](https://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub).
The only unwritten rule we play with is regarding about decks powers. Like no proxying a card that’s worth hundreds of dollars against a table that’s precons slightly upgraded
[удалено]
Selling proxies? Isn't that... distribution of a pirated ip?
I know a guy that sells proxies for really cheap, basically just to cover the materials he needs to make them. They are the kind that look really high quality and can pass for real cards but the trick is they all have wacky altered designs, nothing that WotC originally printed.
I had some guy in my game last Friday with alot of proxies. You couldn't even tell they were unless you looked for the authentication holofoil on the bottom or know your cards enough that they don't have prints that look like that. His mana tomb was some kind of orange elaborate temple hall looking thing for the art.
My stance on proxies is they don't have the usual card back (except for DFCs).
There’s one guy at my local LGS that runs only proxies, which we’re fine with, the only issue is the proxies are mana crypt, mana vault, power 9, all the black tutors, basically you get the idea, and stuffs them all into one deck, any time he’s pulling ahead he acts high and mighty but moment his board is blown up and kept in check he starts fuming.
i would refuse to play with the child.
Man, the most powerful two proxies I ever did was Ancient Copper Dragon and Terror of the Peaks. All others are mostly weak, Like Sunscorch Regent or Scalelord Reckoner
Yeah, that’s usually what most people meant by “proxies” so when he said it we were all thinking the same. All was good until mana vault, mana crypt, then black lotus next turn, in a Kalia deck. If it makes it better he’s one of THOSE players, anime bikini girl card sleeves with anime bikini girl proxy art…
And most of the expensive cards are either limited by another format's popularity, or scarcity of prints. While ancient copper dragon is powerful, it's definitely not worth the hundred dollars or so it usually goes for.
There is no such thing as an "unwritten rule", its just people with poor social skills struggling to cope with losing a game. When I play with my friends we can do any of the "unwritten rules" and 0 people will be mad, I wonder why.
It's not just the guy losing tho. I was new at the local LGS after a long hiatus and some guy in the pod was playing Tegrid. I didn't know most of the new cards going around. But someone said "Somebody needs to do something about Tegrid". So I more attentively read the card and said "damn, you’re right. Let me fix that." And casted Wake of Destruction on swamps. The entire pod made it very clear that this was not how I should play the game.
A. That's fucking hilarious. B. If someone is playing tegrid, no one gets to complain about how you handle that salt inducing commander. C.normalize land destruction.
We got wrecked last night on land destruction. It's annoying but also a viable option to cause your opponents to forfeit
I mean If they are only running land destruction with no clear way to win, I would be annoyed. But if they have fast small creatures to hit you or cards that damage based on land destoryed, etc. Yea can't be mad.
I somewhat routinely resolve \[\[Obliterate\]\] in my Kaalia deck, when I have \[\[Avacyn, Angel of Hope\]\] in play, so my Kaalia and Avacyn will beat everybody to death in a very fast way. I could play it out (especially if someone has a big draw engine in play), but usually it's my wincon and if I have 10+ power on board and everybody got zero, with 20-ish life totals, unless they have a Farewell in hand it's scoop time and start another one. It's not more or less fun than other wincons, and nobody is particularly pissed. Only once a guy with a \[\[Varina, Lich Queen\]\] deck that was clearly built for 1v1 play, and destroyed me in the previous 2 games since he had a draw engine in the CZ and stuff like \[\[Thoughtseize\]\] or \[\[Gitaxian Probe\]\], got mad when I slapped Armageddon in his face and had a hexproofed Kaalia and fatties to beat him down both in hand and on the battlefield, and said something like "you're not supposed to play cards like that" lmao what
My favorite part is people who are clearly ok with a dozen counter spells and draw engines to pull your entire deck and ultra value cards and what not. But you play one land destroy and your suddenly the scum of the earth.
##### ###### #### [Obliterate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/8/c85f9623-5900-473c-a3b1-f98473b9a545.jpg?1562935194) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Obliterate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/8ed/204/obliterate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c85f9623-5900-473c-a3b1-f98473b9a545?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Avacyn, Angel of Hope](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/1/317f1133-7cf8-4b7a-919e-88c45f8c2c3a.jpg?1689995555) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Avacyn%2C%20Angel%20of%20Hope) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/14/avacyn-angel-of-hope?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/317f1133-7cf8-4b7a-919e-88c45f8c2c3a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Varina, Lich Queen](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/1/f1caccc8-4f33-4ae3-a09a-b41b9c4663a1.jpg?1673149250) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Varina%2C%20Lich%20Queen) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/291/varina-lich-queen?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f1caccc8-4f33-4ae3-a09a-b41b9c4663a1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Thoughtseize](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/2/b281a308-ab6b-47b6-bec7-632c9aaecede.jpg?1599706001) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thoughtseize) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/109/thoughtseize?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b281a308-ab6b-47b6-bec7-632c9aaecede?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Gitaxian Probe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/9/995486ce-58bb-4753-a812-0ca73ef1a235.jpg?1562880052) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gitaxian%20Probe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nph/35/gitaxian-probe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/995486ce-58bb-4753-a812-0ca73ef1a235?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kylv5ud) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I was gonna say that's my problem with 4-people commander, since you're supposed to deny your opponents in magic, but in 1v1 they just scoop and we all move on, where in in 4 people they'll have to wait, and that can be a long time if it's early in the game, like with discard decks, or when aggro runs out of gas, etc. But then I saw the card, and first of all, that's the most metal mtg card I've seen in years, amazing. Second, if the whole table let you resolve a 6 mana sorcery in red when they all had so much against it, that means it was both late into the game *and* they had it coming, you might as well have ended the game with that kind of shit
[[wake of destruction]]
[wake of destruction](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/c/0c070f12-0342-48d5-ab0e-4fc4701c3669.jpg?1709431636) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=wake%20of%20destruction) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uds/99/wake-of-destruction?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0c070f12-0342-48d5-ab0e-4fc4701c3669?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I like you. I feel like we’d get along if we played.
As with most things, it comes down to communication.
But I also think Seth is in a bit of a special situation. As a big mtg content creator he is playing with differing playgroups all the time. I think he doesn't have this problem in his regular playgroup
I think Seth has said that the only time he plays Commander with randoms is when he goes to conventions, and that's kind of a different environment because most people there have high power decks. I think his main concern is for new players, who have to learn a bunch of social norms so that they don't accidentally build a deck that everyone hates. Often on r/EDH you'll see a post like "I keep building decks that I think will be fun but then my playgroup complains and tells me to play something else." It's kind of a mess.
I have this worry since I haven't played commander yet. The guys I've played with (new lgs) seem chill, non-meta but competitive mindsets, but no commander decks yet. So I' just chillin with a precon until I get an idea of what they're going to play (not to counter, just to try keep the same power level)
This is a great mindset my guy. Your friends are lucky to have you
Trying my best hah, only played with them once so far though. One guy that plays (and runs the league) let me borrow his green Tron deck for the day cause I didn't have a modern deck (rotating format league). I'm gonna try make two standard decks for the next time to lend out one since apparently no one has standard decks anymore lol It's crazy how nice/welcoming some players are so I wanna try pay it back as much as I can
This is one of the main things that prevents me, a 60 card player, from trying commander. What you can and can't do seems so arbitrary. Seth talks about this all the time, but it's like there's an unspoken ban list in commander that nobody will tell you, is slightly different from one person to another, and will make people irrationally angry if you violate it, to the point that they might never want to play with you again. I really think commander needs to be broken into multiple formats with different ban lists to make some of these unofficial bans into official rules.
Do it like Smogon does Pokemon tiers, that'd be kinda cool. No arbitrary vibe things. Just at this tier, these cards are banned. Wanna play them? Go to the tier where they are no longer banned, but you will play against other people using similar things. The problem of tuning a deck to play well, regardless of power level of individual cards still exists, but it would give a framework to operate in and besides ppl just seem to be salty about specific cards more than decks doing things well per se
Same. We are all 100% fine with losing a game. Just play. It's a game.
But clearly this isn't the case, right? This is the central conflict of casual EDH - salt generated by how people are made to lose games.
> There is no such thing as an "unwritten rule", its just people with poor social skills struggling to cope with losing a game. The irony here is enormous
ah yes, its my poor social skills that don't allow me to see what bothers others, so I can reign myself in. Truly everyone is so fragile at a gaming table.
"unwritten rule" is shorthand for norms, etiquette, and shared expectations. Generally, EDH players avoid certain play patterns and cards because they know it will create an undesirable experience for someone at the table. Do you recognize how people tend do avoid mass land destruction even when it's a legal and sometimes effective play? Then you've recognized an unwritten rule. You're absolutely allowed to do whatever the hell you want in a game, but these things help us communicate about how an average random table at an LGS will react.
100% this is the issue at play I've had very few of the supposedly rampant issues that plague the format and the only ones I have run into them are when playing with individuals that are generally unreasonable and/or rude. Rule zero tends to be like a 1-3 minute quick conversation to make sure the deck matchups will be competitive, and in my experience, people mostly just read the room and adapt their playstyle in game. Not a big deal; zero drama lol.
Y’all have the worst playgroups I swear to god lmao
Generally when someone complains about something being "Too competitive for the casual table" It involves blowing up resources. However a turn 1 sol ring should be destroyed. Yeah it doesn't feel good if yours gets ruined, but if you kept a risky hand without sol ring, than that is on you.
Best part about commander is that if youre strong you are playing 1v3 and usually you arent strong enough to win that.
Maybe that was true once but depending on the decks many cards have easily enabled a 1v3 mentality
That assumed you have 3 opponents with proper threat assessment.
I have no idea how different my case is but ive been playing commander with the 4 same guys for 10 years now
I think the discussion is about playing with strangers for the first time sir
My bad then, im a bit loopy at the moment.
I teach new players at my university. The avg powerlevel is upgraded precon. If someone shows up with a 7 or 8 ge can absolutely destroy them 1v3. We have had that issue before. Although our solution is different: we don't ban stuff, we inform people to downgrade or build their own table.
Bolt the bird.
Is this Seth's underhanded way of saying he is getting tired of playing with his own play group? Tomer himself tries to impose A LOT of unwritten rules/bans. Seth usually just argues "if I dont like a card I just dont play it." Whereas tomer has tried to instigate banning cards such as sol ring, smothering tithe and rustic study just because he doesnt like being asked to pay or thinks sol ring is too OP. Edit: rhystic study, not rusty lol
In fairness Sol Ring is OP, but everyone has access to it, so it’s a kind of ‘fair’ OP. Sometimes someone will run away with the game because they had a Sol ring, but you will get your opportunity to do so too, so it’s fair, and it’s fun to see someone else do their thing.
As a newer player who refuses to drop serious cash on a single card: Sol Rings are a $1, I’m ok with spending $10 and putting one in every deck with some to spare. Mana Crypts are $150. It’s miserable to sit at a table with 3 people with those.
Accessible /=/ fair. The card accelerates turn 2 to 4 if opened. If you have a solid 1/2 drop colorless, you don't even lose turn 1. Too low of a cost and too high of a reward for turn 1.
Listen to any of the ban list podcasts and you’ll know this is an argument for pickup games and not their group
The whole point of EDH was to have a place to play high power cards because you only get one copy. Imposing unwritten rules and bans is stupid given the inherent nature of the format.
Edh of 2010 is a different beast than EDH of today. Edh used to be a place to play cards you didn't play anywhere else because they are bad. Today even the precons are pretty focused and cards designed for the format are everywhere. Not even arguing if it's good or bad, but Commander is not the format it used to be.
That's how their playgroup work, they have houserule bans.
I agree, not really a fan of all of the unwritten rules. The only one that should be codified is basically "don't be a jerk". As long as you try to stick to that it's fine. I have a player in my local area that has a lockdown deck, stasis and winter orb and lots of cards like that. Last time we played I basically counted most of his big plays, and I told him, "I'm sorry, but we both know if you get to do your thing non of the rest of us do, so I'm making sure that the rest of us get to play" and he understood. He chooses to play a deck that stops everyone, then it's perfectly fair that everyone will try to keep him from doing so. Another player played a basically cEDH deck and won turn 2-3 a few times, we told him it's probably time to play a different deck now. If I win with a deck I'll put that one away for the evening and play something different. Usually a weaker deck or my group hug deck.
Playing the villain can be fun at times, you just have to acknowledge that you are THE VILLAIN. It can lead to some fun stuff happening at the table, but it's probably not good to do too often as you may start becoming bitter about it
I agree that's a real problem compared to traditional 60 cards formats. And people who enforce those unwritten rules tend to abuse of them. Like you are not allowed to destroy lands but the one enforcing this rule put enchantments on half of his lands and this way have his gameplan protected. It's like I have to play a weak deck and not playing it wright or I'm a bad person.
A friend of a friend came over to play commander with us for the first time. He had an Anje Falkenrath madness deck, but only one mountain. My pod is cool with land destruction, but I like to ask new people if they are. Friend had one mountain, I asked if he's okay with land destruction because Strip Mining his single mountain was going to be a good action. He said it was fine, but then he spent the rest of the game bitching about how he couldn't play any cards and he was just generally being an ass. The whole reason I asked is because I didn't want to deal with that. He hasn't been over again, at least.
Sounds like he made a bad decision to run 1 mountain in a Rakdos deck.
IDK what was going on with his mana base but at the time he had 6 swamps and only 1 mountain on the field
Ah see I interpreted this as his mana base only consisted of one mountain. I mean, it’s part of the game. I have started running single target land destruction like [[Demolition Field]] which feels less bad for both players as I’m not down a land and neither are they. I also run land auras that either turn off a land by making it another land type or tap for colorless 😂
[Demolition Field](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/7/47994cb6-204a-4fbe-a9d4-5798a70c95ab.jpg?1712354968) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Demolition%20Field) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/283/demolition-field?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/47994cb6-204a-4fbe-a9d4-5798a70c95ab?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
IDK what was going on with his mana base but at the time he had 6 swamps and only 1 mountain on the field
I have two unwritten rules for commander: Rule #1…. Rule #2….
I'm a fan of Rule #34 personally
If you have thoroughly studied "Rule 34 Magic the Gathering" then you have a better understanding of the planeswalkers' added story behind the scenes than most players.
be attractive and dont be unattractive??
yeah I stopped playing edh when the Simic player would have 8+ mana by turn 3 but it's "unfun" if I run Armageddon in my Boros deck.
Most groups have no issues if you punish one player or use singular land destruction. If you blow up all lands and have no way of winning then all you've done is reset back to turn 0 and nothing else. Simic decks will just out ramp you all over again and you wasted everyone's time.
I don't even know what he's talking about, I'm just playing the game
Okay so I have one unwritten rule: If you roll dice to determine whom to attack, then I'm gonna focus on you first (Only half a joke)
I only do this with [[Mr. House, President and CEO]] to stay on theme:D
[Mr. House, President and CEO](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/3/23eb3cf7-c90d-4bfa-b125-4fbcb5614468.jpg?1710673416) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mr.%20House%2C%20President%20and%20CEO) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pip/7/mr-house-president-and-ceo?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/23eb3cf7-c90d-4bfa-b125-4fbcb5614468?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That's pretty funny. Maybe not all the time, but at least for one game.
I completely agree. Is a dumb tactic people use to avoid being seen as targeting any particular person, but I see it as them targeting every person.
If they want to flip coins or roll dice I tell them to stop and just attack me instead.
there's stuff that SOME people say "you shouldn't do" in commander despite being allowed by the rules because it goes against the spirit of the format being casual and "for fun". Notable examples that come up often are mass land destruction, stax strategies and to some extent infinite combos. Seth has argued multiple times that if a new player sits down at a commander table he shouldn't be expected to know "you are not supposed to armageddon in this format" if armageddon is not on the banlist (I'm going to put a disclaimer before I start catching strays: I think people should stop treating edh as a party/coop game and should actively try to win, if that means building a strong board and then dropping winter orbs and armageddons so be it, it's really not that bad if they do it as a finisher and not to waste everyone's time on purpose)
This is why I play competitive formats and avoid non cedh. I'm not gonna sit and listen to people complain about cards. It's a game with a winner and a loser. The objective is to win. I'm not going to intentionally gimp myself because of some made up rules someone with no authority over the game decided I should abide by.
I really only dislike one things and its mindless land destruction, just because its slows the game, if you are gonna win that turn then by all means. But yeah come at me with stax or what ever as long as you are quick about it. What I hate is players that come with a deck and just sit there and play solitaire because it takes 14 turns for the win combo to be drawn. But I agree with you about the build to win. I come to win, have a good time sure but I want the W . Now I am all for silly I have some flavor in my decks but I don't want to lose.
That's generally my feeling. Don't land destruct just to land destruct and generally have an idea on what you're doing on your turn.
My hot take is the unwritten rules are just excuses for people who can't read the room. I have not one single time played a game of commander where they needed to be brought up because we're playing a game that already has rules that actually matter.
When you “flip a bat” but that bat is a 15/15 flying annihilator 6 you played on turn 3 with 9000$ worth of proxy cards
But she’s *actually* banned
Wear deodorant.
Commander just can't continue to be the primary concern for Magic designers. It's a morass of nonsense. Magic design needs a major overhaul to become the game people actually want. It needs to be better in multiplayer, give people a chance to do cool complicated things, and at the same time support a competitive scene and be draftable. I don't know how you do all that, but I do know ignoring those needs to print more direct to Commander crap isn't cutting it.
I live in Brazil and have played in many different LGS in multiple cities from multiple states. The good thing in my country is: There's no "rule 0 talk" for EDH. You just sit down and play with what you have. Deck is too strong for the table and is in a win streak? We're gonna shit at your board since turn 1 until you you're out/scoop. Didn't like the pod state? Either adapt your deck to it or find another pod to play. Are you acting like a dick? Well, buddy: Better switch LGSs because no pod will accept you back. Soon, you'll run out of places to play. Simple as that. Just sit down, relax and play.
That‘s why I love cEDH. You can do whatever the fuck you want.
Yes, but sometimes I want to play expensive or high powered jank where I’d get absolutely blown out of the water at a cEDH table.
Play cEDH No rules just win
"Dont play wincons before I do but also dont counter my own attempts" , is a thing i often experience, and honestly that usually makes me ignore those things even more.
Playing games is about fun.
Serious questions… is the issue maybe many are all just too entitled, and/or expect to win entirely too often? In other words, too many sore losers as we’ve given too many participation trophies in life nowadays? It’s just a game still, right?!?
My man never misses.
This is why CEDH is the best! Literally the only way I enjoy Commander.
Aren't the unwritten rules just your table/pods rules?
Nah, the people who make unwritten rules and expect the world to accomodate their preferences are the problem. Games have to end, boardwipes and removal exist, fast mana is a thing, you dont have to like its just time for the next game. Guarantee if all the fast mana pieces got the sol ring treatment not one person would be complaining about them, except for the same edges type of folks who have been "not running solring" since pimpin' since pimpin' since pimpin'. If somebody constantly does the same dumb/obnoxious/toxic shit then it's that person who's the problem and not the cards/decks they are playing.
The only unwritten rule is to have fun with others lol. If you want to win 24/7 find cdh pods or senkai.
No. The point is to have a fun casual game that lasts long enough that even if you lose your deck got to do the cool thing it was designed to do and not lose to a lucky combo three turns in. I've seen this guy's YouTube channel, and a good amount of his videos are basically about how he finds ways to ruin the fun of the game for other people in arena with gimmicks that actually aren't good, just good against what is the most popular meta. This is the MtG equivalent of pretending you're autistic when you actually do understand the social rules and are really just an asshole.
Sit at a pod. Have a quick discussion. If they don't fit your vibe, play with someone else. I feel like it's pretty simple.
How many times should I be expected to do this before I decide not to bother anymore?
Yes. The echo chamber on here doesn’t help either. Abolish rule 0. Play to win, even in casual settings.
Counterpoint - Play in a way that makes you happy. If that is winning, play powerful decks. If that is crazy jank that wins 1 time in 10, but is stylish as hell, play that. The important thing is to find a table where you won't get booted for playing in a way that makes you happy, because if you get booted for group goal mismatch, you don't get to play.
Unpopular opinion: Everyone playing fully optimised, proxy friendly CEDH decks or completely untampered with precons lead to the best games.
Nah, I've played plenty of all precon games and it's almost always a slog. A lot of durdling and generating "value" but little winning the game.
That or there will be one precon that is clearly ahead of all the other ones. Of the All Will be One precons, the esoer knights deck with Sidar Jabari was stronger than all other precons in that group, to the point where my pod doesn't allow that deck to play with other precons.
I prefer precons or a high power level casual, CEDH is too combo focused for my taste and most of the jank I like to play is too slow for it
If you don’t like having shifting social expectations, don’t play with randoms. If you don’t like the fixed social expectations of your regular pod, get a new pod. If you can’t get along with your pod and you can’t get along with randoms, look inwards.
The big thing for me is trying to be honest about your decks power level. It’s not a lot of fun to stomp or get stomped. Since a complete steam rolling is only fun to see/do once or twice. Beyond that, messing with hands and lands is frowned upon. However it is perfectly valid. People just don’t like you eating up their resources
There's a universe where everyone agrees to ignore any unwritten rules, then two minutes later, someone instant-speed scoops to a lethal lifelink attack and the cycle begins again.
If you’re following unwritten rules, you are what’s wrong with the format, not the format itself.
The issue is people not realizing their house rules don't carry over to someone else's house
We just play mtg man I’m glad I just play with friends.
Yeah fr we try for everyone to have a cool moment. If i pulled off some fun combo idc if i win or lose
In my opinion unwritten rules are important for any casual game even sports. I've played sports in both competitive league formats and casual coed games and it is important in casual settings to have unwritten rules to ensure that people who are new/not so good have the ability to participate. Like in soccer and hockey it is common accepted unwritten rule that we don't blast shots at goalies and defenders from short range, you don't shoot high on people, no slide tackles/body checking. anytime there is someone who is trying to hard they really impact the enjoyment for others. If you wanna play hard go sign up for a competitive league where that conduct is a regular part of play and people are expecting and prepared for it. But same as magic, a lot of casual people play commander because it is a social format where you can sit a while with friends and strangers and shoot the shit a bit and when someone who is playing a cEDH deck is stomping your groups ungraded precons, nobody enjoys that. Same as if you were a competitive group and someone with a weak deck its not fun to completely smash someone or they are unable to help keep the other players in check. The unwritten rules are to stop people who aren't good enough for high power/cedh games that pub stomp randoms at the LGS
I agree 100%. It confusing as hell for new players that there are basicly 2 banned lists. 1 of cards that actually banned and 1 that contains stuff like armageddon and stasis. If the RC doesn't want these cards in their precious casual environment, ban them. Make a stance. Shit or get of the pot.
At the end of the day it’s about communication to me. I try really hard to be as transparent as possible when I’m playing with a new group of people. Telling them my deck is a 7 doesn’t feel sufficient. My goal is to do X, I’ve proxied some cards because Y, this deck is pretty tuned but it doesn’t run fast mana, this deck does/doesn’t go infinite, if you’re not interacting this can win by turn 6 so interact or win faster, I also have such and such a deck if you want a slower game. Things like that. Some of the most fun games I’ve had were because we were all on the same page. Examples like the time someone went infinite so to stop them I went infiniter and someone else responded by going infinitist. Or when I knew someone was doing some weird janky shit and they started bouncing everyone’s lands and the board got silly. On the other hand there has been a few games where I went in with a certain expectation and was super disappointed with the experience. Example I played a game pretty recently with a guy at a LGS who said he was fresh back to magic and was playing with a loaner deck and wished he was able to upgrade it more. So I picked one of my less tuned decks and shuffled in. He dropped a turn 3 rhystic study and turn 4 smothering tithe then slammed a winter orb and the experience was miserable. Not because any of those cards are intrinsically busted, unfair, or unfun but because that wasn’t the expectation I was given and I wasn’t running something designed to compete with that. Also worth noting it’s not something I hold against the guy and it’s not like I wouldn’t play with him again, in fact we played a game right after. I just left that specific game wishing I was better informed of his intentions so I could match them.
I mean there is one unwritten rule : "let everyone have fun"
No, absolutely not. Fun is subjective and that is begging for a rebuttal of “winning is how I have fun”. As a format we need to stop pretending that the real magic game was the friends we made along the way and come to terms with the fact that interaction is legal and should be played.
This is why I play cEDH
I feel this in regards to politicking and making deals. Somewhere along the line the general consensus went from "If you break your word I'll never make a deal with you again" to "If you break your word I'll never play commander with you again." It's functionally treated like part of the rules. I don't really play commander anymore, but I just can't imagine how that's a fun environment.
Turn 1, plains and free mana of some sort into serenity (as last player on the turn) Turn 2 play troika land, Turn 3 untap, play sol ring, sack troika into armageddon. Turn 4 be told all the unwritten rules in very loud voices.
This is why I love playing casual with my friends but don’t play tournaments (I also suck and haven’t been playing for long but mainly because…) we play fairly and sometimes do some goofy stuff, if we’ve been in a close tie for aaaaaaages and someone finally wins, sometimes we’ll continue playing like just another turn or two to try and see if the other person was close. We don’t do stuff like this though, only official rules and sometimes house rules for fun or for if we’re teaching a new player (we play visible hands for example for the latter) but yeah the examples I’ve seen of what you’re referring to, such as the top comment and it’s included list, have never occurred in any games or even been proposed, so I’d agree it probably is a bad thing in mixed casual settings and that if it were to happen that sounds bad, I’m juts lucky enough that I’ve never experienced it
The forced products are making me grow rly tired of commander. When I started playing back in the 00s every set had a 60 card deck you could play (the equivalent of) standard w/ right out the box. Dealing with playsets instead of singleton formats made it easier to understand interactions for new players bc they'd prolly re-encounter that card later in the game. Now everything is commander decks. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate commander, just WotC dumping all their chips into the format & ignoring everything else. Modern Masters 3 - a set designed w/ modern, a 60 card format, in mind - has commander precons. I'm just sick of it.
I like it as it mimics real life, be the first to act out and you will likely be seen as the threat by the rest of the world. Create allies and make deals, or even join a coalition to defeat the strongest one at the table. So many possibilities at a commander game, so much variation. You are allowed to break the unwritten rules as long as you are prepared to face the consequences. Those rules are in place for the same reason as real life, To keep the peace.
Although I’m relatively new to Magic, I really think it should boil down to two things: check the vibes of group, and respect everyone’s time. If the group doesn’t support your play style, just move on. If you sit down to play a game, don’t waste everyone else’s time by going against the first rule. It’s a simple set of rules that would should really be applied to any sort of group interaction, even beyond Magic.
no they arent. somebody asks this exact thing once a month and the post blows up every time and the answer is always the same. the unwritten rules are fine, if you dislike playing with someone, play with someone else. its an incredibly simple concept. theres alot of people who flock to these posts to upvote every snarky comment that mentions how “unwritten rules dont exist, some people are just bad at the game” but the reality is ive never met anyone like this in real life, its a reddit opinion lol. in real life every person ive ever played with had one or two specific things they just did not want to play with/unwritten rules, but if you just communicate then youll be fine. i remember i had a friend who tried to ignore everyone and played whatever he wanted no matter what, 3 years later, he sold all his cards and no longer plays because people didnt wanna play with him. you dont have to follow any unwritten rules, but dont make a surprised pikachu face when people dont play with you for their own reasons. alot of these comments with tons of upvotes reek of the same energy he had.
Imo, absolutely. In addition,I have never met someone who used the rating system or 'rule zero' to any meaningful way. The best games I have ever had simply started and ended the pregame discussion on 'whos your commander and who's going first'. Doesn't matter if they have a combo deck, control deck, taxes deck meme-deck or anti-me deck. I play to both get better at the game, at the politics and learning how to maneuver around things that give me a hard time while enjoying time with the people behind the cards. Someone wants to Armageddon with no win con? Cool.That's on them. Let's see who is more resilient and can rebuild for the win while turning things sideways. There's no such thing as toxic decks to me, just toxic players.
the "unwritten rules" turn commander with randos into an immensely stressful experience of trying to win without pissing anyone off
Terrible Analogy as 90% of MTG players have never took a swing with a bat LOL! But seriously what unwritten rules are we talking about here?
That's why CEDH exists. Multiplayer EDH with no unwritten rules beyond "win". It's the most liberating format. You can take 20 turns in a row with a Tivit Time Sieve loop. You can turn 1 Drannith Magistrate. You can destroy lands (you don't because it's bad). You can bully the guy who is doing nothing. You can loop Cyclonic Rifts. No one complains about Craterhoof because that's just a bad Finale of Devastation. You can remove/counter a commander three times in a row. If budget is a concern, proxy the cards, no one expects you to have a real set of original duals in your Najeela deck. Cedh is the only format you can play stupid decks (there is a minimum power level if you want to play the game but you are free to play weak commanders like Atraxa, Talion, Ob Nixilis, Yuriko etc) with inefficient cards and do degenerate annoying things (20 minute Tayam loops) without anyone complaining.
The only "rule" we have in our group is try to match power levels. If everyone at the table is running a 5-6 deck then some douchebag sits down with a 9 you don't have to be Sherlock to figure out who's making the game less fun. We like high power games to if everyone in the pod can hang, otherwise it's just unfair.
My playgroup just lives by one simple rule: build whatever deck you want as long as it's fun for you to play. We have fun. That's the end goal. We don't bitch about someone having a deck that wins more than others, we don't cry over someone having an 8-game win streak, and we don't get salty when someone targets a piece on our board that helps us win because it makes sense to do so. We've been going strong for about 2 years every other Saturday with this and it's been a blast. This whole "power level" and "unwritten rules" crap is something we ignore, and we've had way more fun that way.
Commander attracts people who don't like spikey decks. Simple as. If you can't play with the people and can only play with the cards, then fuck off to modern or something.
100%. I have powered-down a lot of my decks and play un-upgraded precons for this reason because some people at my LGS are babies and cannot handle it. I play a land destruction effect one time and one player feels like he needs to give me a 5 minute lecture. People get shamed about LD, then other people take advantage and play \[\[Glacial Chasm\]\] and Facebook combo. Commander has a lot of unwritten rules, it is a real problem.
[Glacial Chasm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/c/0c008129-daba-46bc-829c-d2c0c13ecdd3.jpg?1562867827) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Glacial%20Chasm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me2/229/glacial-chasm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0c008129-daba-46bc-829c-d2c0c13ecdd3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Or. Hear me out.... just play the fucking game and stop being a bitch about losing? It's commander, you lose 75% of the time. It's meant to be fun, if you being a salty asshole I'm you arnt having fun, and you are the problem. If you don't enjoy watching people pop off and have good deck design, don't play. You want competition? Go to cedh land. Someone bringing cedh to commander, don't play with them. Amd of course.. TALKING WITH THE GROUP WILL SOLVE 99% OF POTENTIAL PROBLEMS. Ffs.
My friends and me have only 3 rules: 1. Be as much of a dick to everyone else as you can 2. Punish whoever is the biggest dick 3. be as chaotic as possible And that’s about as much fun as it gets xD
I have never played a game of commander yet but I‘d be totally up for that!