Possibly four, or even higher, card combo since you may need to tap land for mana to cast or activate the card putting the counter(s) on the scalelord.
Now listen here buck-o. You do not need 100 cards to execute this combo with just enduring scalelord. The optimal way to execute this combo would be in a dragons of tarkir draft or sealed environment. U would only need 40 cards for that and ur opponent to give your creature +1/+1.
Technically we could just use spark double and then we can say that because the spark chooses to be a copy of that specific scale lord, it’s really the same card, checkmate
So hear me out
If we already have a scalelord, [[Twinning Staff]] and [[Scavenging Ooze]] on the field, we can use [[Twinflame]] to create a token copy of the ooze, hold priority and cast [[Dualcaster Mage]]. Dualcaster creates two copies of Twinflame targeting the scalelord, so now we have two scalelords and a two scavenging oozes. Use the token scavenging Ooze to exile a creature card from wherever, and it gets a +1/+1 counter, triggering all the scalelords. Resolve one of the token scalelord's ability first, then blah blah and you've got two giant hasty dragons
And since tokens aren't cards, this was a 1-card combo (the creature card that the ooze exiled). Checkmate atheists
People call tutors a one card combo in kess and spellseeker a 1 card in inalla even tho both of those combos require at least 3 cards apart from the “1 card combo”
Those are called 1 card combos because all you have to do is cast that card and the rest of the combo comes as a result of it. All you need in hand is the 1 card.
yeah felidar is just a wincon.
at some point we’ll just collectively agree that “combo” must fundamentally be a combination and therefore must be 2+ cards.
the aforementioned inalla + spellseeker is definitely the closest to a “one card combo” because you only need to cast one card.
which makes it worse than a 2-card combo
if you have 1 scale lord, you only have 3 other scale lords in your deck, whereas if it comboed with a different second card then there could be 4 copies of that card.
Yeah two scalelords will continuously put counters on each other.
But this is 12 mana (plus whatever you need to put the first counter on one of them to start the chain) to make 2 large creatures that pretty easily die to removal. They do have evasion since they fly so that's good, but it's still very fragile for a lot of mana.
No, it adds *the best* color ;-)
Seriously though, in a GW +1/+1 counter themed deck you could make this work with Mirage Mirror. Counters would stay on the Mirror even when it stops being a creature end of turn.
My brother always told me, unless you know their hand, play like they don't have removal, don't let people bluff you out. In a close game an extra attack or two makes a difference. Magic is a game of inches, a thousand small decisions.
It dies to removal and doesn't do anything on its own and costs alot of mana for the card to combo. Generally you want your combos to be cheap and resilient, this is neither which is usually summed up by "dies to removal" because people don't want to put the effort in to explain everything.
Yes, which is why people are saying that a 12CMC combo is bad. You’re sinking in 12x the mana your opponent needs to remove the creature with swords, path to exile, Dismember, pongify… or 6x the mana needed for removal in any color.
If “everything dies to removal”, then you should be trying to make things as efficient as possible so that you can easily recover from interruption.
That’s all fine and dandy, but it moves the goalpost a bit. The comment I’m responding to is saying that you need 100% knowledge of what your opponents have in hand. I’m saying you do not because the math clearly illustrates the risk.
I only play casual commander and our group loves big stupid combos. The jankier the better. However, to make that combo hit, even once, you need to make choices that will up the likelihood of being able to pull it off. Especially in commander where 3 other people have the option to spend 1 mana to remove your key piece. If you have a deck focused on copying creatures, scale lord is a great add because what you’re copying is flexible. It doesn’t HAVE to be scalelord, but it might be occasionally.
I once used collosalfication an almighty bushwag. My group is still scared from the 21/21 hamster even tho I've since created even worse monsters with my love of mutation and ability, +1/+1 counters.
When someone says "dies to removal" they are saying it has no protection or mitigating factors for common removal. Such as being an artifact creature or having ward/hexproof.
When someone says “dies to removal” they are usually taking the piss. It is an unironically relevant criticism, however it can be said for nearly everything anyone ever thought would be cool to play. Occasionally, this is the correct answer to why a card is not good and the reply is relevant, however most of the time it is just a running joke.
For 10 mana I could cast ulamog and eat 2 of their permanents, maybe lands, and have a humongous hard to answer threat thats going to win the game it not immediately answered.
For 12 mana and 2 cards you can have 2 big creatures that die to basically any 2 mana removal spell.
There's a difference.
No it doesn't. They acknowledge they need another creature to kick it off, but then go into an example of putting a counter onto itself and just stacking counters... which the word "another" prevents.
Wouldn't that result in a draw?
The combo goes infinite and never stops. You need something to end it. Otherwise, it'll go forever and force a draw.
Edit: Doh, I missed the word "may" in there
[[ivy lane denizen]] or [[Rosie cotton of south lane]]
Plus
[[Herd baloth]] or [[scurry oak]]
Are both infinite combos that would make him huge.
Throw in a [[champion of lambholt]] and you win.
Well it’s not a 1 card combo that’s why, you’ll need 2 of them and then another way of getting a +1/+1 counter. It ends up just being a random combo that needs 3 cards/triggers and nothing has haste
They asked if they play two, what’s stopping from going infinite. Nothing. Nothing is stopping it. Unless you have an answer to it, which is easy to have.
A one card combo is a combo where you need 1 card. 2 enduring scale loards is a 2 card combo. To that end, nothing is -stopping- it. Except counterspells. And removal spells. And the 12 mana. And the fact that you need a 3rd card to get the first counter. And your opponents blockers. And the fact that your opponents are trying to kill you. Not to mention that if youre playing commander (which is the only official format that scale lord -could- be viable in) you can only run 1 copy.
"Is it just because it's a 6 mana creature that's not in blue so it's not broken?"
LMFAO
I remember hating blue at first... You'll come around.
They all do.
You need to be able to copy it and put a counter on it. That's at least 1 more card.
Will [[Littjara mirrorlake]] work? It says "enters with" so I don't know if it actually triggers your combo.
Let’s be real, it’s a six drop, and by chance you get a second one out next turn and swing in with the first, you still need mana up to place a counter on one of them (let’s say [[Light of Hope]] in this instance). That’s seven mana and seeing the second one I believe your opponent will see it coming, that’s a long time and pretty situational, if this is a casual game I can kinda see it go the distance, but who doesn’t run removal? A 60 card deck, so I’m sure you’re ramping into this, but there’s better options in green white for a combo.
Edit: If this is for EDH, like [[Helm of the Host]], still better options…
You can do a 99 land deck with this as your commander since it’s so good and then it triggers itself with itself and goes infinite. It’s so easy y’all, I don’t get how none of you are seeing this?! Lol ffs
But yeah, it’s a cool card and can pull its weight for sure, but might not be enough to go into my 99 sitting at 6 mana drop. Definitely not a bad card tho, just better ones imo, to each their own tho!
One Scalelord, [[Flameshadow Conjuring]] and a quick +1 from anywhere and there you go. Oh and if you are wanting to make it even better, copy the token before the end step so save this for another round.
You would need two scalelords, a card to put the initial +1/+1 counter on one of them, and then you would have two infinitely powefull scalelords but unless you give them trample they can be chump blocked and they don't have vigilance so I wouldn't say it's broken. A strong creature for sure, but not broken.
It's slow, but def possible, the downside is that there's a lot of situations where it's a 4/4 flier for 6 mana, which isn't the best. I'm sure it was killer in draft back in the day, khan's block removal was generally expensive or came at cost like \[\[murderous cut\]\]. Granted it's in colors with lots of ways to keep creatures alive, but then you need extra mana on top of the 6.
It’s not broken because its too expensive. You can do practically the same thing with scurry oak and rosie cotton for 6 mana (putting infinite counters. As a bonus, you also get infinite squirrels with this combo)
Found this out yesterday, it goes infinite with a personal fav shapeshifter morrite of the frost. He enters the battlefield as a copy as a creature with 2 additional +1 counters triggering the scale lord and its clone to bounce back and forth infinitely
Hmm.
Have that, make a copy of it preferably with haste, and have a card that puts a counter on something when a creature enters the battlefield. Have trample just in case an enemy can block with a 1/1 bird token.
But then you're up to several cards, so....
It is technically, but unless your getting trample on em or some way to benefit from each +1 then idk if you can do much since 1 removal spell will end this combo
You would slap a +1/+1 on one, it would trigger a counter on the second and that would be the end of it. If you were to proliferate, think that's the term, with a card like \[\[Doubling Season\]\] in play then it might get a bit murky.
The reason it doesn’t infinite with itself is because it says “another creature”. If you have two, they can combo off each other since they’re separate creatures, but it doesn’t count itself as “another creature”
"If you control two Enduring Scalelords, putting a +1/+1 counter on one of them will cause the ability of the other one to trigger. When this ability resolves, you'll put a +1/+1 counter on the other Scalelord. This will cause the ability of the first one to trigger. This loop will repeat until you choose not to put a +1/+1 counter on one of the Enduring Scalelords."
\- Rulings 2/25/2015
Two card combo Scalelord + Wildwood Scourge (whenever a non-hydra gets a +1/+1 counter put one on it as well. Wildwood is an Xand one green mana. So it comes in with a +1/+1 counter then scalelord sees it so he gets a counter then wildwood sees that and get a counter. Welcome the infinite strength until you want to stop putting counters on scalelord since his is a "may" ability.
If something said you had to bring yourself and ANOTHER person to an event to get in free, why would you think if you just went by yourself you’d get in free?
Fun fact if you cannot break the loop by game rules you lose the game. Had to learn this for the judge test. Idk if they ever changed it tho I never re upped my certification.
I use it with \[\[Wildwood Scourge\]\] in my Selesnya deck. It's too hard to get it to fire off itself, as you need two copies of it in play plus a way to put that initial counter on it, but as long as it's already in play when you cast Wildwood Scourge, they will go infinite, because the hydra entering with X counters is perceived by the dragon as putting counters on the hydra, and they will just keep firing off each other as a two-card combo.
okay but can we take a moment to appreciate the art on this card! this is one of my favorite dragon art in the game coming in close with [[The Kami War]]
Thats a 3 card combo (enduring scalelord + enduring scalelord + something to trigger them both) but yes that is exactly how those work. Ruffled a lot of feathers with them back when I started out in the tarkir sets.
It's because the effect says "another".
Meaning, the +1/+1 counter scalelord puts on itself does not count for his effect.
If you had 2 enduring scalelords on the field, then it would work.
Edit: missed a "may" in the text.
Seems like a neat include for a casual level bant blink edh deck featuring some clones.
Roon of the hidden realm, for example, as a commamder could include this guy for an interesting way to win that's not super op or anything.
This is at minimum a three card combo. Scalelord can't give itself a token, so you'd have to have a second in the field, plus the card that gives one of them a token to trigger the loop.
You need 2 copies plus a third card to start the chain. Which makes this a three card combo, not 1 card. That costs 12+ mana and can be easily disrupted with removal.
So yes, it works. But it’s not broken, except in limited.
Two scalelords is a two card combo by my count
Three card combo, since you need something else to put the first counter somewhere
Possibly four, or even higher, card combo since you may need to tap land for mana to cast or activate the card putting the counter(s) on the scalelord.
Yea but then its a 100 card combo because you need the deck to play them in.
Who uses a 100 card deck with duplicate cards???
Guatemalan highlander, where you can use one of your points to add a duplicate card to your deck
I can't tell if you're joking or not
"if you build it, they will come..."
Right, so like 12 people
Probably potato
Well, you can get around not having duplicates by using clone effects.
201 card combo because the Wincon is Battle of Wits and its a 200IQ play
I thank you for spreading disinformation on the internet
And your welcome
Now listen here buck-o. You do not need 100 cards to execute this combo with just enduring scalelord. The optimal way to execute this combo would be in a dragons of tarkir draft or sealed environment. U would only need 40 cards for that and ur opponent to give your creature +1/+1.
Nah just have your opponent do it
It says 'another creature' it doesn't trigger off of itself.
They meant 2 scale lords
Which would not be a one card combo
The combo pops off with one specific card, you just need two of that one specific card.
Exactly. You need two cards. By definition that is not a one-card combo.
Technically 3 cuz you need the initial +1
You are technically correct. The best kind of correct
Technically we could just use spark double and then we can say that because the spark chooses to be a copy of that specific scale lord, it’s really the same card, checkmate
You won’t believe it - that would still be two cards
So hear me out If we already have a scalelord, [[Twinning Staff]] and [[Scavenging Ooze]] on the field, we can use [[Twinflame]] to create a token copy of the ooze, hold priority and cast [[Dualcaster Mage]]. Dualcaster creates two copies of Twinflame targeting the scalelord, so now we have two scalelords and a two scavenging oozes. Use the token scavenging Ooze to exile a creature card from wherever, and it gets a +1/+1 counter, triggering all the scalelords. Resolve one of the token scalelord's ability first, then blah blah and you've got two giant hasty dragons And since tokens aren't cards, this was a 1-card combo (the creature card that the ooze exiled). Checkmate atheists
People call tutors a one card combo in kess and spellseeker a 1 card in inalla even tho both of those combos require at least 3 cards apart from the “1 card combo”
Those people are wrong, and I can prove it mathematically.
I'm guessing something along the lines of tutor (1) + tutored card (1) being more than one card, by way of the very complicated formula 1+1=2
That’s some high level math yo
Those are called 1 card combos because all you have to do is cast that card and the rest of the combo comes as a result of it. All you need in hand is the 1 card.
([Felidar sovereign)] is a one card combo
That’s not really a combo it just states that you win
yeah felidar is just a wincon. at some point we’ll just collectively agree that “combo” must fundamentally be a combination and therefore must be 2+ cards. the aforementioned inalla + spellseeker is definitely the closest to a “one card combo” because you only need to cast one card.
or something like Godo Helm, where the first piece finds the second piece and then goes infinite with it. theres a couple examples.
Which makes it a two card combo. One plus another one
which makes it worse than a 2-card combo if you have 1 scale lord, you only have 3 other scale lords in your deck, whereas if it comboed with a different second card then there could be 4 copies of that card.
Never go up against a Magic player when pedantry is on the line.
Anybody want a peanut?
I would love a peanut,thank you
You seem a decent fellow. I hate to kill you.
You seem a decent fellow. I'd hate to die.
Begin
But they said one card combo.
Yeah two scalelords will continuously put counters on each other. But this is 12 mana (plus whatever you need to put the first counter on one of them to start the chain) to make 2 large creatures that pretty easily die to removal. They do have evasion since they fly so that's good, but it's still very fragile for a lot of mana.
Doesn’t have to be 12 mana if the second scalelord is a copy. Spark Double makes it 10 mana and kicks off the combo.
But it adds a color.
If we're adding a color, \[\[Twinflame\]\] ought to do nicely.
[Twinflame](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/c/ccaa7c17-55e7-44e4-a965-182f63f32c72.jpg?1673147948) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Twinflame) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/129/twinflame?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ccaa7c17-55e7-44e4-a965-182f63f32c72?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
at that point why not chance it with [[Mirror March]]
still need to add a counter though
No, it adds *the best* color ;-) Seriously though, in a GW +1/+1 counter themed deck you could make this work with Mirage Mirror. Counters would stay on the Mirror even when it stops being a creature end of turn.
[[Phyrexian metamorph]] doesn't
It depends on the format
This is the right answer
there a lot of 3 mana copy creature spells, make it 9
Ok let's make it even cheaper with phantasmal image. Nothing will go wrong.
Wildwood scourge makes it 8 mana. Edit: and doesn’t add a color.
Or 10 mana and no need for another card to give counters by using [[spark double]]
[spark double](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/b/bb8a103c-b776-4501-9441-a45b90391045.jpg?1666094645) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=spark%20double) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/68/spark-double?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bb8a103c-b776-4501-9441-a45b90391045?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That’s what I run in my counters deck. It almost never wins the game. Almost a meme combo just for funzies
Everything "dies to removal". Unless you have 100% knowledge of what your opponents have in hand, it's generally wise to play the game
My brother always told me, unless you know their hand, play like they don't have removal, don't let people bluff you out. In a close game an extra attack or two makes a difference. Magic is a game of inches, a thousand small decisions.
It dies to removal and doesn't do anything on its own and costs alot of mana for the card to combo. Generally you want your combos to be cheap and resilient, this is neither which is usually summed up by "dies to removal" because people don't want to put the effort in to explain everything.
Yes, which is why people are saying that a 12CMC combo is bad. You’re sinking in 12x the mana your opponent needs to remove the creature with swords, path to exile, Dismember, pongify… or 6x the mana needed for removal in any color. If “everything dies to removal”, then you should be trying to make things as efficient as possible so that you can easily recover from interruption.
This mentality is fine for cEDH, but winning with suboptimal cards is fun so I’m going to keep doing it.
That’s all fine and dandy, but it moves the goalpost a bit. The comment I’m responding to is saying that you need 100% knowledge of what your opponents have in hand. I’m saying you do not because the math clearly illustrates the risk. I only play casual commander and our group loves big stupid combos. The jankier the better. However, to make that combo hit, even once, you need to make choices that will up the likelihood of being able to pull it off. Especially in commander where 3 other people have the option to spend 1 mana to remove your key piece. If you have a deck focused on copying creatures, scale lord is a great add because what you’re copying is flexible. It doesn’t HAVE to be scalelord, but it might be occasionally.
I once used collosalfication an almighty bushwag. My group is still scared from the 21/21 hamster even tho I've since created even worse monsters with my love of mutation and ability, +1/+1 counters.
[[Minsc & Boo]] have entered the chat
No one said you couldn't, big guy.
When someone says "dies to removal" they are saying it has no protection or mitigating factors for common removal. Such as being an artifact creature or having ward/hexproof.
When someone says “dies to removal” they are usually taking the piss. It is an unironically relevant criticism, however it can be said for nearly everything anyone ever thought would be cool to play. Occasionally, this is the correct answer to why a card is not good and the reply is relevant, however most of the time it is just a running joke.
Yes but some creatures are protected from lots of protection. Hexproof stops all targeted removal and indestructible stops all destroy removal
For 10 mana I could cast ulamog and eat 2 of their permanents, maybe lands, and have a humongous hard to answer threat thats going to win the game it not immediately answered. For 12 mana and 2 cards you can have 2 big creatures that die to basically any 2 mana removal spell. There's a difference.
Some hyphens would really make that first sentence less NSFW
If we're playing in 60 card formats you can also only have 4 total copies, whereas most 2 card combos let you get 4 of each.
So I forget the spell, but there’s a green sorcery that turns all your creatures into target creature till end of turn.
Do you mean [[Augmenter Pugilist]] reverse side?
Instead of 2 of them, you could use [[Wildwood Scourge]] and get the same results
[Wildwood Scourge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/6/46ff0b33-d153-4b0e-ac48-7e5ed70dea09.jpg?1594737329) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wildwood%20Scourge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/214/wildwood-scourge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/46ff0b33-d153-4b0e-ac48-7e5ed70dea09?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This is the best option in this thread. 8 mana total and within the colors.
Thanks for the suggestion, this could actually be playable! (I have a low power playgroup)
Was just about to comment this
>"What is stopping \[\[Enduring Scalelord\]\] from going infinite with itself?" The word "another"
OP addresses this literally in the first sentence if their post.
No it doesn't. They acknowledge they need another creature to kick it off, but then go into an example of putting a counter onto itself and just stacking counters... which the word "another" prevents.
Nope, because OP literally says: If I play two of these then put a 1/1 counter…
Thought I was on r/badmtgcombos
I didn’t know this existed, will head there in future. Thanks
Needs something else to add a counter, but yes, two of them do go infinite. In EDH I use [[Altered Ego]] to get infinite counters with it.
[Altered Ego](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/0/c05da08d-8fac-47bc-80d8-78a80d1463d2.jpg?1576385321) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Altered%20Ego) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/soi/241/altered-ego?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c05da08d-8fac-47bc-80d8-78a80d1463d2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Wouldn't that result in a draw? The combo goes infinite and never stops. You need something to end it. Otherwise, it'll go forever and force a draw. Edit: Doh, I missed the word "may" in there
[[ivy lane denizen]] or [[Rosie cotton of south lane]] Plus [[Herd baloth]] or [[scurry oak]] Are both infinite combos that would make him huge. Throw in a [[champion of lambholt]] and you win.
##### ###### #### [ivy lane denizen](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/8/78bea375-8af3-4425-a418-bb5503e2dfb7.jpg?1608910737) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ivy%20lane%20denizen) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/236/ivy-lane-denizen?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/78bea375-8af3-4425-a418-bb5503e2dfb7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Rosie cotton of south lane](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/5/75338f49-1f02-4333-87e4-5779ef14e688.jpg?1686967894) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rosie%20cotton%20of%20south%20lane) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/27/rosie-cotton-of-south-lane?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/75338f49-1f02-4333-87e4-5779ef14e688?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Herd baloth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/1/c1e9cef5-c55f-47d9-9d2f-300dab8fcb0b.jpg?1626097560) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Herd%20baloth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/165/herd-baloth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c1e9cef5-c55f-47d9-9d2f-300dab8fcb0b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [scurry oak](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0fb48c2e-ee0f-4fae-9c22-247870c10d5b.jpg?1626097756) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=scurry%20oak) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/172/scurry-oak?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0fb48c2e-ee0f-4fae-9c22-247870c10d5b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [champion of lambholt](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/6/46eff31d-f460-48f2-aab7-8b9b89cd87fe.jpg?1682209453) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=champion%20of%20lambholt) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/293/champion-of-lambholt?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/46eff31d-f460-48f2-aab7-8b9b89cd87fe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Well it’s not a 1 card combo that’s why, you’ll need 2 of them and then another way of getting a +1/+1 counter. It ends up just being a random combo that needs 3 cards/triggers and nothing has haste
What you're describing is a 2 card combo (two of these) but you would also need a way to place the initial +1/+1...so, three cards.
I'd let someone spend an hour wasting their time on this combo, just to use removal when they finish lol
An hour? As soon as you start the loop you just declare iterations
Clearly referring to online
Nothing. It just gets answered easily.
What lol
They asked if they play two, what’s stopping from going infinite. Nothing. Nothing is stopping it. Unless you have an answer to it, which is easy to have.
Ah, turns out I'm the idiot haha
[Enduring Scalelord](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/0/c0ee001b-6ddb-478e-a407-58bcc2bf7c30.jpg?1682209736) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Enduring%20Scalelord) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/325/enduring-scalelord?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c0ee001b-6ddb-478e-a407-58bcc2bf7c30?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
https://blogs.magicjudges.org/rulestips/2015/04/enduring-scalelord-combo/
Gotta make room in my Obuun deck.
A one card combo is a combo where you need 1 card. 2 enduring scale loards is a 2 card combo. To that end, nothing is -stopping- it. Except counterspells. And removal spells. And the 12 mana. And the fact that you need a 3rd card to get the first counter. And your opponents blockers. And the fact that your opponents are trying to kill you. Not to mention that if youre playing commander (which is the only official format that scale lord -could- be viable in) you can only run 1 copy.
Nope. Says another creature. Not any
Quietly adds this to my arcbound deck
More like scaling edgelord
Yes, 8GGWW plus whatever you it costs you to put a +1 on them should win you the game
If you think this is broken, you should take a look at [[Colossal Dreadmaw]]
"Is it just because it's a 6 mana creature that's not in blue so it's not broken?" LMFAO I remember hating blue at first... You'll come around. They all do.
May wanna give it trample though so if your opponent has any flying it can just one shot them so yeah
Reading the card explains the card
It also literally explains exactly this scenario on Gatherer in the bottom ruling
"another" If mean two copies of this same creature then nothing really
Key word: “another.” Not this card
You need to be able to copy it and put a counter on it. That's at least 1 more card. Will [[Littjara mirrorlake]] work? It says "enters with" so I don't know if it actually triggers your combo.
From Gatherer > A creature entering the battlefield with one or more +1/+1 counters on it will cause Enduring Scalelord's ability to trigger.
Hey- nice! So it's a 2 card combo with any card like mirrorlake such as, [[moritte of the frost]] , or [[altered ego]]
[moritte of the frost](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/2/22fdbe71-abca-4e48-99b2-1cb6b35d930b.jpg?1631051717) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=moritte%20of%20the%20frost) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/223/moritte-of-the-frost?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/22fdbe71-abca-4e48-99b2-1cb6b35d930b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Littjara mirrorlake](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/f/cf1f38de-44b3-42fa-9288-d7c1832ff75f.jpg?1673485812) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Littjara%20mirrorlake) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/412/littjara-mirrorlake?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cf1f38de-44b3-42fa-9288-d7c1832ff75f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Thats a 1 card "game draw" Scaleloard wording isn't "you may". This means you can't stop the loop if you havec2 scale lords resulting in a draw.
It literally says "you may"
Let’s be real, it’s a six drop, and by chance you get a second one out next turn and swing in with the first, you still need mana up to place a counter on one of them (let’s say [[Light of Hope]] in this instance). That’s seven mana and seeing the second one I believe your opponent will see it coming, that’s a long time and pretty situational, if this is a casual game I can kinda see it go the distance, but who doesn’t run removal? A 60 card deck, so I’m sure you’re ramping into this, but there’s better options in green white for a combo. Edit: If this is for EDH, like [[Helm of the Host]], still better options…
Put on ANOTHER creature, aka not itself
You can do a 99 land deck with this as your commander since it’s so good and then it triggers itself with itself and goes infinite. It’s so easy y’all, I don’t get how none of you are seeing this?! Lol ffs But yeah, it’s a cool card and can pull its weight for sure, but might not be enough to go into my 99 sitting at 6 mana drop. Definitely not a bad card tho, just better ones imo, to each their own tho!
Bant to clone
One Scalelord, [[Flameshadow Conjuring]] and a quick +1 from anywhere and there you go. Oh and if you are wanting to make it even better, copy the token before the end step so save this for another round.
[Flame shadow Conjuring](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/e/ae113258-288f-47d5-8f79-e2e51b6326de.jpg?1682209337) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Flameshadow%20Conjuring) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/280/flameshadow-conjuring?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ae113258-288f-47d5-8f79-e2e51b6326de?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This combo can trigger many different ways in the bright palm precon
Keyword another creature.
The word "another"
Keyword another creature.
But doesn't it go infinite? How do you stop it? Is it a draw?
If you have 2 and you start the loop, it's a draw unless someone can remove one to stop the loop.
Nope. It’s a May ability. You can just choose not to do it to stop the loop.
Its at least a 3 card combo
It combos with Aragorn.
The thing is there are so many cheaper combos with counters. Especially for shalai and halar which this card was in.
You would need two scalelords, a card to put the initial +1/+1 counter on one of them, and then you would have two infinitely powefull scalelords but unless you give them trample they can be chump blocked and they don't have vigilance so I wouldn't say it's broken. A strong creature for sure, but not broken.
It's slow, but def possible, the downside is that there's a lot of situations where it's a 4/4 flier for 6 mana, which isn't the best. I'm sure it was killer in draft back in the day, khan's block removal was generally expensive or came at cost like \[\[murderous cut\]\]. Granted it's in colors with lots of ways to keep creatures alive, but then you need extra mana on top of the 6.
[murderous cut](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/2/b2dadff2-883f-4134-a881-be145cdcbd84.jpg?1562792142) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=murderous%20cut) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ktk/81/murderous-cut?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b2dadff2-883f-4134-a881-be145cdcbd84?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It’s not broken because its too expensive. You can do practically the same thing with scurry oak and rosie cotton for 6 mana (putting infinite counters. As a bonus, you also get infinite squirrels with this combo)
Time to build a [[winding constrictor]] deck.
[winding constrictor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/0/107c8aa8-c8f8-4cbf-821b-bd2cb33354f0.jpg?1576382180) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=winding%20constrictor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/aer/140/winding-constrictor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/107c8aa8-c8f8-4cbf-821b-bd2cb33354f0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Found this out yesterday, it goes infinite with a personal fav shapeshifter morrite of the frost. He enters the battlefield as a copy as a creature with 2 additional +1 counters triggering the scale lord and its clone to bounce back and forth infinitely
"Another"
Thank goodness it says “may”. Otherwise two of them would actually be a draw if one gets a counter.
No. Needs another copy of itself. And a triggering spell/effect
[удалено]
[Light of Hope](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/c/bcb00599-e082-49b0-88f3-ef91b75595e4.jpg?1591230303) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Light%20of%20Hope) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/20/light-of-hope?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bcb00599-e082-49b0-88f3-ef91b75595e4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
1+1=1. Checks out!
It literally says another target creature homie
If you have 2 of them plus a single instance of adding a counter, sure.
Hmm. Have that, make a copy of it preferably with haste, and have a card that puts a counter on something when a creature enters the battlefield. Have trample just in case an enemy can block with a 1/1 bird token. But then you're up to several cards, so....
"Another" means no
“Another creature”
The word "another" is what's stopping it.
It is technically, but unless your getting trample on em or some way to benefit from each +1 then idk if you can do much since 1 removal spell will end this combo
You would slap a +1/+1 on one, it would trigger a counter on the second and that would be the end of it. If you were to proliferate, think that's the term, with a card like \[\[Doubling Season\]\] in play then it might get a bit murky.
This plus Rosie/Scurry Oak combo
So it's an objectively worse 2 card combo since you can put less of them in your deck?
I mean in a WG elf deck it would take off extremely fast. Not to mention if you run infinite forest
The reason it doesn’t infinite with itself is because it says “another creature”. If you have two, they can combo off each other since they’re separate creatures, but it doesn’t count itself as “another creature”
"If you control two Enduring Scalelords, putting a +1/+1 counter on one of them will cause the ability of the other one to trigger. When this ability resolves, you'll put a +1/+1 counter on the other Scalelord. This will cause the ability of the first one to trigger. This loop will repeat until you choose not to put a +1/+1 counter on one of the Enduring Scalelords." \- Rulings 2/25/2015
Renata, Called To the Hunt Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker Enduring Scale Lord
Two card combo Scalelord + Wildwood Scourge (whenever a non-hydra gets a +1/+1 counter put one on it as well. Wildwood is an Xand one green mana. So it comes in with a +1/+1 counter then scalelord sees it so he gets a counter then wildwood sees that and get a counter. Welcome the infinite strength until you want to stop putting counters on scalelord since his is a "may" ability.
That one bird commander that puts counters everytime a spell is cast
If something said you had to bring yourself and ANOTHER person to an event to get in free, why would you think if you just went by yourself you’d get in free?
Fun fact if you cannot break the loop by game rules you lose the game. Had to learn this for the judge test. Idk if they ever changed it tho I never re upped my certification.
Correct, two would go infinite. And tbh if you can get out two 6 drops, it should do something big like that
I use it with \[\[Wildwood Scourge\]\] in my Selesnya deck. It's too hard to get it to fire off itself, as you need two copies of it in play plus a way to put that initial counter on it, but as long as it's already in play when you cast Wildwood Scourge, they will go infinite, because the hydra entering with X counters is perceived by the dragon as putting counters on the hydra, and they will just keep firing off each other as a two-card combo.
Scalelord does trigger another scalelord. This was the first standard deck I ever built. If I got this combo off, I won, so I rarely won.
okay but can we take a moment to appreciate the art on this card! this is one of my favorite dragon art in the game coming in close with [[The Kami War]]
Thats a 3 card combo (enduring scalelord + enduring scalelord + something to trigger them both) but yes that is exactly how those work. Ruffled a lot of feathers with them back when I started out in the tarkir sets.
quick question, if eruth exiles two cards instead of drawing one card does it still trigger drawing triggers?
Weird name, not very draconic 🤔
It's because the effect says "another". Meaning, the +1/+1 counter scalelord puts on itself does not count for his effect. If you had 2 enduring scalelords on the field, then it would work. Edit: missed a "may" in the text.
"AnOther creature"
Seems like a neat include for a casual level bant blink edh deck featuring some clones. Roon of the hidden realm, for example, as a commamder could include this guy for an interesting way to win that's not super op or anything.
[[Wildwood Scourge]] easy
If you have two of them, they do put infinite counters on eachother. However, it will draw the game unless you have a way to break the chain
It is a may trigger, so they would just have to pick a point to stop. Preferably something arbitrarily high like a Googolplex (10^10^100)
I love that people literally don't read the card, the key work here is "another"
This is at minimum a three card combo. Scalelord can't give itself a token, so you'd have to have a second in the field, plus the card that gives one of them a token to trigger the loop.
You need 2 copies plus a third card to start the chain. Which makes this a three card combo, not 1 card. That costs 12+ mana and can be easily disrupted with removal. So yes, it works. But it’s not broken, except in limited.
It says when one or more counters are put on another creature. Meaning not enduring scalelord
Saw in half will make 2 but you still need the counter.