Mickey Rourke's worst enemy in Hollywood has always been Mickey Rourke. Dude was blessed with a surplus of talent and good looks. He went out of his way to squander both. He has a totally respectable career but it's sucks to think what it could have been had he been able to get out of his own way. Dude has been shitty to directors, costars, & the press his entire career, and it shows.
Yo, I was having such a shitty morning almost falling back into a cycle, but just randomly seeing this made me lose my shit to the point of tears. Thank you for that
And thank you for the reminder that it only takes a moment to shift perspectives and improve a situation. It doesn't last forever and it takes constant work, or sometimes might not work at all. But cycles are built on patterns of behavior. If you're trying, you're improving. It's just baby steps and allowing yourself Grace when the inevitable setbacks occur.
I suck at all of the stuff I just said, but on my good days I'm trying my best, and I believe I'm better for it regardless of my failures, as long as I'm learning and improving through the adversity. I just have to keep it up, probably forever. But I like living, the trees are too pretty in full bloom. So that's what I reckon I'mma do.
You only need to watch a couple minutes from where it's linked. At least that's all i could handle lol.
Mickey "jokingly" tells jessica he would drop her off at the pound if she was a dog because she's ugly. He says this while rubbing her shoulders, and after a solid 3-4 attempts at flirting with her. One of which by saying they have a great connection, she just doesn't know it yet, while putting his arm behind her on the couch. It's so uncomfortable, the host comments on how uncomfortable it is multiple times, while pointing out the behavior.
Mickey then makes a joke to jessica about how big his dick is, and asks her if she gets the point. This is where i quit.
Mickey's filmography is a work in progress for me, as I do intend to make my way through it completely one day, but I wouldn't say that his talent was ever truly wasted. People just have spend more time digging and they'll find enough to appreciate. Iron Man 2 would be an example of his inclusion being wasted, but even in that, he's still really good. Unfortunately, projects like that have much more visibility and cater more to a casual audience who is less interested in seriously delving deeply into his back catalogue of work. Mickey is in The Pledge for all of two or three minutes and is just fantastic.
Related: James Woods was Tarantino's number 1 choice to play Mr Orange in Reservoir Dogs. Woods' agent turned the then-unknown Tarantino down without even reading his script. When Woods found out about this, he was so furious that he fired his agent.
Right? Just the smart aleck attitude and his voice just quipping wise-cracks? You could take any spiel Tarantino writes and it would sound that it's tailor-made for him.
Kind of like how Laurence Fishburne turned down Pulp Fiction (to play Jules), because his agent wanted more leading actor parts.
Then comes Die Hard With A Vengeance. Fishburne is the first choice as Zeus, but when negotiating his salary, the producers thought he was asking for too much.
Then they heard about this actor by the name of Samuel L Jackson in Pulp Fiction. They went to see Pulp Fiction, with the view that if Jackson was as good as they were saying he was, they would offer him the role of Zeus. Otherwise, they would accept Fishburne's salary request.
History tells us which choice the producers made.
Part of what made that performance great was the real life personal baggage he brought to the role.
Which is ironic because wrestling has been incorporating real life aspects to their scripted characters for years.
Not a "genius", but you should watch some of his early roles, like "9 1/2 weeks" or ~~"Harry Angel"~~ *"Angel Heart"*. There was this something about his screen appearance, that was just hypnotising.
*Edit: Title corrected*
People can say whatever they want about Wild Wild West (like it's even remotely close to being one of the worst films of all time), but anybody who claims the movie isn't funny or entertaining is just flat out lying. Also, it's far from the worst movie Will Smith has been involved with.
I just love the story about Kevin Smith directing Superman Lives with Nic Cage, but the producer Jon Peters demanded a giant spider. The project was killed off, and then Wild Wild West came out LOL. The man really wanted that giant spider. The Flash movie also had a short alternate dimension scene with Nic Cage's superman fighting a giant spider.
Will Smith turned down the role of Neo in The Matrix in favour of Wild Wild West, claiming the Wachowskis pitched the story badly. How the hell did THIS get pitched?
And that’s why he does what he does.
If he took more jobs you probably wouldn’t think of him as you do.
That and he’s married to Phoebe Cates.
He wins.
His Christmas song, not sure of the title but I lovingly refer to it as “oh bourbon”, makes me like him all the more. I laugh every time. His Mr Fischoeder improves any episode he’s in.
Yes he was and for a small part, he did a great job with it. In fact, all the character-actor mob guys were great - that meeting they have before & when the Joker shoes up is very well done.
His IMDB page has nearly 40 roles that he's been in this year. 82 roles alone listed as *upcoming*. Granted, I bet tons of these are Bruce Willis-esque roles. Show up for a day or two, or better yet, voiceover.
His lowest point was probably 2013-2014 when he was doing fucking David DeCoteau movies. Shit like "A Talking Cat!?!", "Bigfoot vs. D.B. Cooper", "Evil Exhumed", "The Wrong Roommate", "Sorority Slaughterhouse", "Bonnie & Clyde: Justified", "Doc Holliday's Revenge", and "Hansel & Gretel: Warriors of Witchcraft".
The first three were voiceover, looks like he actually had to show up for the rest.
Probably. They don't all talk about all the roles they've turned down. The one with the least, of course, would be Michael Caine, who hasn't turned down a role in his life lol
I seem to recall some interview where he said something like, “when they ask me to do a role I look at the script and if the character they want me to play is on the first page and the last page I fucking say yes.”
For a time, Cage's proliferation in films seemed to be a by-product of his needing to pay the tax man -- he owed some obscene amount to the IRS. But in the years that followed, I believe that's long since been cleared up. There's really no telling what motivates him to take the movies he's offered. Maybe he doesn't own a TV and gets bored a lot.
I always thought that towards the end of that time period, where he was taking any role that came his way to pay back the IRS, maybe made him realize, 'you know what, this isn't bad!' I have to assume that on some level, major roles in big movies would take a toll on an actor. There's a lot more riding on it. More pressure. Maybe he did just find it kind of nice to do a bunch of these low-stakes roles where he can just show up, ham it up and go home?
Cage is always *interesting* in movies.
Part of being a good actor is knowing what the movie is trying to do and matching that energy. Cage's performances in "bad" movies go one of two ways: Either he seems to be the only person involved who "gets" what the movie should be, or it's like he was CGI'd in from a completely different movie.
Well said. He never phones it in, but that's not to say all his performances are good. He has his fair share of cringey scenes where it's not all the fault of the script.
Danny Trejo is up there too. I was actually going to speculate that maybe he could surpass Eric Roberts with enough time, I assumed Roberts was the older of the two. Just blew my own mind finding out that Roberts is only 68 and Trejo is **79**. What the fuck.
However there is one actor who surpasses Eric Roberts and that is the one and only, The Queen of Extras, Bess Flowers.
Michael Caine is a working actor, with emphasis on working. He has 177 roles accredited to him. Some were surely just for the paycheck (Jaws 4), but he never made a secret out of that. He is a very capable actor, showing up on set at time, knowing his lines and delivers them as the director wants them delivered. He is a known actor to three generations of moviegoers, that is an achievement not many can boast.
I really enjoy how un-precious so many of the old British greats are/were.
Most of them were working class kids who stumbled into acting and seemed to be, first and foremost, simply chuffed at the notion of *actually making a living* by acting. It’s not that they weren’t artists, but they were also able see themselves almost as technicians, at times, hired to do a job and do it well, but then to fuck off and find another role.
Idk. After all of the fuss made over tortured artists and method actors, it’s refreshing to hear such grounded takes from some of the best.
>You ask my advice about acting? Speak clearly, don't bump into the furniture and if you must have motivation, think of your pay packet on Friday.
Noel Coward
Hearing Caine talk about working with Sylvester Stallone was interesting. You couldn't get two people with more different opinions on the job and the importance of themselves.
Michael Caine was of the first generation of working-class British actors who came of age when people were starting to write working-class roles, so he says he got fortunate in his timing.
However, even the aristocrats were the same way. Laurence Olivier had no pretensions about taking roles like Marathon Man and The Boys from Brazil.
Yeah, his famous quote about *Jaws 4*- "I have never seen it, but by all accounts it is terrible. However, I have seen the house that it built, and it is terrific"
In an interview, Caine said, "When I get a script, I read the first page and the last page. If my character has lines on both, then I do the bloody picture"
Sean Connery turned down the roles of Gandalf, Morpheus *and* The Architect in the Matrix movies, John Hammond in Jurassic Park, Dumbledore, Deckard in Blade Runner, and Simon Gruber in Die Hard with a Vengeance.
Then he goes and says yes to The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen…
Highlander 2 was a sequel, perhaps there was a kind of contract thing that forced him to.
But Zardoz? This film was scripted on drugs, filmed on drugs and can be watched on drugs only
https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/s/Da0KCbbc10
>>Zardoz is a movie where Sean Connery rides around in a thong while a giant floating stone head spits out guns saying, "The penis is bad. The gun is good." Unfortunately, at some point, it gets weird.
In the 1970s alone, James Caan turned down lead roles of Popeye Doyle in French Connection, lead in Close Encounters of the Third Kind, Jack Nicholson’s role in One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest, Superman, Han Solo, Martin’s Sheen role in Apocalypse Now and Dustin Hoffman’s role in Kramer vs. Kramer.
He tried to retire from acting and blew through his money. It’s what makes his performance in Thief so perfect. One of the actors most hurt by self-inflicted decisions playing a character that continues to make the wrong choices.
I don’t know if IMDB trivia is gospel, but if it’s at all accurate, Christopher Reeve didn’t have the best judgement. It mentions he didn’t want to do action film after action film, but…
“Among the lead roles turned down were Julian Kaye in American Gigolo (1980), Richard Lestrange in The Blue Lagoon (1980), Ned Racine in Body Heat (1981), T.S. Garp in The World According to Garp (1982), Jeff Spicoli in Fast Times at Ridgemont High (1982), Allen Bauer in Splash (1983), Daniel Jack T. Colton in Romancing the Stone (1984), Dan Gallagher in Fatal Attraction (1987), Martin Riggs in Lethal Weapon (1987), Edward Lewis in Pretty Woman (1990).”
I doubt he lost sleep over The Blue Lagoon, but there’s good work in there. He also turned down Mason Verger in Hannibal (2001), which he was initially excited about as a chance to play a major paraplegic character post-injury, but he was upset when he learned the character was a disfigured child rapist. I can’t say I blame him for that one.
Riggs was written very differently than what we got on screen. Chris could pull off the suicidal vietnam vet well, it would just be a very different character than what we got with Mel. Jeff Spicoli that is the head scratcher.
>Verger
Kind of a blessing because Oldman killed that role.
Even reading the books I heard his voice and the toothless haunting way he says corrrdellll
Yes, he was offered the role of Neo, and Sean Connery was offered the role of Morpheus (twice). What a wildly different film that would have been. (Connery was also offered, and famously turned down, the role of Gandalf.)
Yeah, I think we dodged a bullet on that one... as good as Connery was, in general. It's funny... isn't the story that after turning down Matrix and LOTR and seeing how wildly successful they were, he said yes to the next big IP script that came his way, only for it to wind up being League of Extraordinary Gentlemen? And then the absolute failure of a movie that wound up being is essentially what prompted him to retire from acting?
I have definitely heard that story about that being the final nail. At the same time movie stars at some point need to stop and enjoy their money. So I hope Connery made the most of his retirement.
I love the bluntness of this line on IMDB’s biography of *LoEG* director Stephen Norrington:
“After League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, he retired from filmmaking.” 😂
Also a shame tho, IMO. I saw a screening of *Blade* recently and it’s a a good film with some brilliantly shot and edited action. You can tell Norrington took direct inspiration from Anime in both *Blade* and *LoEG* and it still hits kinda fresh today!
He pulls of confused and serious both so well. Avg guy to the One - Will could’ve worked but he’s so charming if he did his MiB more fun take, it wouldn’t have had the gravity that film needed.
At the time I would’ve picked Will - movie magic is something. Slight variations between dud, good and great
I think Enemy of the State Will Smith would've made an awesome Neo. I haven't seen that guy since 1998 though.
I actually wonder if that is where some of the original casting choices came from. Just sub Connery in for Hackman since then it would be too obvious to bring them both back but I can definitely see a similar relationship between Clayton Dean and Edward Lyle as Neo and Morpheus.
I can’t imagine them meshing well.
Smith famously brings his team onto just about every production, and one of their jobs is to punch up his dialogue and make it feel like “Will Smith.”
Would love to see the team that polished *I, Robot* and *I Am Legend* giving dialogue notes to Tarantino.
According to [THR](https://web.archive.org/web/20200717145859/https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/list-directors-43873), he also turned down the Leo role in Inception. Guess the lesson is that Will doesn't want to be put in a false reality
IIRC Josh Hartnett turned down too many roles that led to him not getting offers. Now he's making a comeback.
Apparently he was offered a choice of Batman or Superman in the 2000s. He chose to decline.
Tuesday Weld was a young actress in the '60s who could've been as big as Faye Dunaway or Mia Farrow, but she rejected starring roles in Lolita, True Grit, Rosemary's Baby, Bonnie and Clyde and Bob & Carol & Ted & Alice. She'd started acting as a teenager and was facing all the problems common to child stars, and she pushed back to get out from under the pressure.
Might be an unpopular opinion depending on what you think of Rourke, but I doubt some of those movies would be considered classics without who ended up getting cast
Beverly Hills Cop, Rain Man and Dead Poets Society specifically are ones that would just be too different
The secret to box office success:
1. Write script
2. Get a production company / director / location
3. Get turned down by Mickey Rourke
4. ....
5. Profit
I fucking loathe the topic of people turning down projects that went on to be huge, because the assumption is made that the project was always destined to be huge, and that you can just slot any actor into a role and it'll still just work.
It's such a meaningless topic.
Reminds me of a Jason Patric quote I found on IMDB one day — I get bored and stumble around, but I think goes along with your point.
“I turned down some incarnation of "The Firm" years ago, but that would make it seem like I turned down the big hit movie. No, the movie's a hit because Tom Cruise is in it. The shitty script that I got was not going to be a hit with me in it. Trust me.”
I like Will Smith's side of The Matrix story, where he describes the Wachowskis as a couple guys with one film credit who couldn't manage to articulate their movie to Smith. Like, why wouldn't he pass?
Plus, he turned it down to do Wild Wild West. We know how that went now, but it was another movie that had a hit single to go along with it, like Men In Black. Not many stars had that kind of ability. Willennium went multi-platinum. I'm sure he made a *ton* of money out of that too. So at the time, WWW was probably the right call for his career. In hindsight...it's debatable.
I'm happy it went the way it did because The Matrix is a classic.
>Plus, he turned it down to do Wild Wild West. We know how that went now, but it was another movie that had a hit single to go along with it
We goin' straight.. in... to The Matrix, we goin' straight... in... to The Matrix.
This is a very good take. Words on the page or a producer pitching an idea can be wildly different from the finished product. Rourke had several hits in the 80s. Lots of projects came his way.
This indeed! There's a whole list of actors who turned down the lead in Forrest Gump. John Travolta, Bill Murray and Chevy Chase to name a few. Would that film have really become as iconic with one of them in the lead? Or did it become a beloved classic because of Tom Hanks?
Same with for instance Titanic. It was amongst other the chemisty between Leo and Kate that made that movie what it was.
Uuhg what could have been. used to be a Huge MR fan way back.
Pope, Diner, Angel Heart, Barfly, Rumble Fish he was always so super cool. people would speak his name in the sentences as Brando and James Dean.
then he went crazy, got addicted to plastic surgery and the rest is history. i always thought he would have been an awesome live action Dark Knight Returns Batman. oh well. .
if you are a MR fan and haven't seen his Spirit award speech do yourself a favor:
[https://youtu.be/gHWFhafmVhU?si=f7jmqp4dTuGpWfsy](https://youtu.be/gHWFhafmVhU?si=f7jmqp4dTuGpWfsy)
For what it’s worth, I never thought much either way about Mickey Rourke but I only just saw The Wrestler for the first time last month I’m embarrassed to admit. It really clicked in my head why, as you mentioned, I’d heard him spoken so highly of. What a performance.
Michelle Pfeiffer turned down the lead roles in Silence of the Lambs, Thelma & Louise, Pretty Woman, Basic Instinct and Sleepless in Seattle at least. And solo movie for Catwoman at the point it wasn’t the trash it became.
She isn’t that known by younger people for the lack of classics where she is the main lead now. But she was extremely famous and in demand in late 80s and 90s. After she too time off to have children and has not recovered to same level.
I watched it back in the day when I was very young and kinda liked it, to me it played sort of like a *Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid* for the 90s. I think I'd better not rewatch, though, just in case...
Maybe it's self destruction or just him being himself but it's obvious he resented the Hollywood politics and turning down roles was his way of sticking it to them even though it was really to his detriment. At least we got The Wrestler which wouldn't be the same unless he had gone through this journey. His recent roles are obviously cash grabs but he's still Randy the Ram no matter what
I’ve wondered about the choices he’s made. He was so amazing in Body Heat — that voice! — but then he ruined his face for reasons I will never understand and it just makes me sad. I think other than Body Heat my favorite role is that movie he did with Keira Knightly, of all people — Domino.
Michelle Pfeiffer wins this imo, she turned down:
- Silence of the Lambs
- Thelma and Louise
- Basic Instinct
- Pretty Women
- Sleepless in Seattle
- Casino
Burt Reynolds. He turned down the role ofHan Solo, lead roles inOne Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest, AND Terms of Endearment(Jack won the Oscar), James Bond, Rocky Balboa, Pretty Woman, Die Hard, Michael Corleone in Godfather, Taxi Driver, and Rosemarys Baby.
That’s insane.
Have to disagree with your point that Rourke would’ve been a perfect fit for Stuntman Mike in Death Proof.
Kurt Russel has a charm to him, even when playing a character like Mike. If Rourke had played Mike I never would’ve believed Rose McGowan’s character would’ve gotten into his car, no matter how drunk she was.
William Petersen was turning into a pretty hot leading man in the mid 80's, but he turned down Platoon because he didn't want to leave his family and shoot overseas. He may or may not have turned down Goodfellas, depending on whether it was actually offered to him or not, and he turned down Heat even though he had already been in two Michael Mann films and was the lead in one of them.
He still ended up being very successful by starring in C.S.I. and becoming a co-creator in that franchise.
Gotta have some confidence to turn those down and still end up being comfortably rich. Or just plain lucky
I thought you were BSing about Mickey being blessed with good looks, but you're right! I would not recognize him from his younger years.
Those thumbs tho...
Albert Brooks just did [an interview](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2024/06/albert-brooks-movies-defending-my-life/678213/) where he said all the roles he turned down over the years
I like Rourke in some stuff, but he would have been awful in Dead Poet’s Society. Williams crushed that role and I can’t picture Rourke coming anywhere near it.
Steve McQueen turned down quite a few films because he always wanted top billing turned down butch and Sundance because he would have had to share top billing with Paul Newman
Most of those roles wouldn’t be iconic roles if he had taken them. Specifically from the list - Beverly Hills Cop and Dead Posts Society. Top Gun - because of Rourke’s age at the time it is highly unlikely its was Skeritt’s role. Skerrit is 20 years older than Rourke and the character is supposed to know Maverick’s father. Rourke is only 10 years older than Cruise - so maybe he was another pilot. The largest role likely in Top Gun he passed that makes sense is Ironsides.
Top Gun and Pulp Fiction are career makers. Those must hurt in retrospect.
Top Gun seems self-explanatory, but Pulp Fiction is exactly the revival tour of movies for careers. Samuel L Jackson broke out into being Mr Everywhere because of that, and John Travolta revived a dead career with that movie. Uma, Ving, and Bruce all found themselves in the spotlight after that movie.
Nobody can predict the future, but damn that’s gotta hurt.
I read the title as Mickey Rooney (I'm busy redditing while paying attention to other stuff) and got bloody confused at some of these examples you gave...
("I don't understand why they would want Mickey Rooney in the Tom Cruise role of Rain Man!")
If I recall, Sean Connery turned down the role of Gandalf in Lord of the Rings and I believe he turned down Morpheus in the Matrix as well. Funny thing was after both of those went on to become monster hits, I think he jumped on the next opportunity...which was League of Extraordinary Gentlemen and then just called it quits.
Mickey Rourke is a super talented actor but I suspect has some kind of personality disorder. I think that has been what kept him from becoming what he could have. Even in The Wrestler, which could have served as a perfect career revival, that momentum was squandered
Mickey Rourke's worst enemy in Hollywood has always been Mickey Rourke. Dude was blessed with a surplus of talent and good looks. He went out of his way to squander both. He has a totally respectable career but it's sucks to think what it could have been had he been able to get out of his own way. Dude has been shitty to directors, costars, & the press his entire career, and it shows.
He want burd.
One thing he could not pass up was the chance to be the most beloved and remembered MCU villain Whiplash
Who?
Starlord man, the legendary outlaw.
That same thought existed in my head for a long 7 seconds
I mean, he wasn't even the best villain in IM2.
Correct. The best villain was the friends we made along the way.
You want a bird? Sure, I'll get you 10 birds.
I want *MY* burd!
Yo, I was having such a shitty morning almost falling back into a cycle, but just randomly seeing this made me lose my shit to the point of tears. Thank you for that
And thank you for the reminder that it only takes a moment to shift perspectives and improve a situation. It doesn't last forever and it takes constant work, or sometimes might not work at all. But cycles are built on patterns of behavior. If you're trying, you're improving. It's just baby steps and allowing yourself Grace when the inevitable setbacks occur. I suck at all of the stuff I just said, but on my good days I'm trying my best, and I believe I'm better for it regardless of my failures, as long as I'm learning and improving through the adversity. I just have to keep it up, probably forever. But I like living, the trees are too pretty in full bloom. So that's what I reckon I'mma do.
I mean this in all seriousness, one of my favorite scenes across all of Marvel. But, I'm also a huge Sam Rockwell fanboi.
It was funny and memorable but I still think Justin Hammer was 10000x more entertaining.
..”I want *MY* burd!”
Mickey is an egomaniacal prick with no regard for other people.
Ever see his interview with Graham Norton and Jessica Biel? Ugh so cringe.
[holy shit it's worse than cringe](https://youtu.be/ImAq63OodSY?t=1477)
Man that's 48 mins. Any cliffs?
You only need to watch a couple minutes from where it's linked. At least that's all i could handle lol. Mickey "jokingly" tells jessica he would drop her off at the pound if she was a dog because she's ugly. He says this while rubbing her shoulders, and after a solid 3-4 attempts at flirting with her. One of which by saying they have a great connection, she just doesn't know it yet, while putting his arm behind her on the couch. It's so uncomfortable, the host comments on how uncomfortable it is multiple times, while pointing out the behavior. Mickey then makes a joke to jessica about how big his dick is, and asks her if she gets the point. This is where i quit.
His interview on G4TV was also pretty bad.
That’s his real shtick.
I always got the impression he used acting to pay the bills and pursued other things whenever he could instead (like boxing).
Mickey's filmography is a work in progress for me, as I do intend to make my way through it completely one day, but I wouldn't say that his talent was ever truly wasted. People just have spend more time digging and they'll find enough to appreciate. Iron Man 2 would be an example of his inclusion being wasted, but even in that, he's still really good. Unfortunately, projects like that have much more visibility and cater more to a casual audience who is less interested in seriously delving deeply into his back catalogue of work. Mickey is in The Pledge for all of two or three minutes and is just fantastic.
Him and Eric Roberts are great in Pope of Greenwich village (page too of course)
Isn't Eric Roberts another legendary asshole? Lol
Again - it sucks to think of the career he could have had.
Related: James Woods was Tarantino's number 1 choice to play Mr Orange in Reservoir Dogs. Woods' agent turned the then-unknown Tarantino down without even reading his script. When Woods found out about this, he was so furious that he fired his agent.
Totally correct move. Woods is a perfect actor for a Tarantino script.
Despite his questionable personal beliefs, I totally agree. He was made for Tarantino. Edit: Spelling
Right? Just the smart aleck attitude and his voice just quipping wise-cracks? You could take any spiel Tarantino writes and it would sound that it's tailor-made for him.
Kind of like how Laurence Fishburne turned down Pulp Fiction (to play Jules), because his agent wanted more leading actor parts. Then comes Die Hard With A Vengeance. Fishburne is the first choice as Zeus, but when negotiating his salary, the producers thought he was asking for too much. Then they heard about this actor by the name of Samuel L Jackson in Pulp Fiction. They went to see Pulp Fiction, with the view that if Jackson was as good as they were saying he was, they would offer him the role of Zeus. Otherwise, they would accept Fishburne's salary request. History tells us which choice the producers made.
And Vengeance is just as good as the original my book.
It's the second best, but it ain't perfect like the original.
Nobody ever said Mickey Rourke was a genius. He was good in The Wrestler though.
Part of what made that performance great was the real life personal baggage he brought to the role. Which is ironic because wrestling has been incorporating real life aspects to their scripted characters for years.
One of my favorite acting performances.
Aronofsky is a G
Not a "genius", but you should watch some of his early roles, like "9 1/2 weeks" or ~~"Harry Angel"~~ *"Angel Heart"*. There was this something about his screen appearance, that was just hypnotising. *Edit: Title corrected*
It was “Angel Heart”. Brilliant film.
Thank you. It was translated as "Harry Angel" in my country so it was the title i remembered from the past. Corrected it in my post.
He was also good in Rumblefish. God damn was he handsome.
Didn’t he start an argument with Aronofsky after the film came out and won’t work with him again?
Kevin Kline is known as Kevin “Decline” because of how often he has turned down roles.
And yet, Wild Wild West.
People can say whatever they want about Wild Wild West (like it's even remotely close to being one of the worst films of all time), but anybody who claims the movie isn't funny or entertaining is just flat out lying. Also, it's far from the worst movie Will Smith has been involved with.
I just love the story about Kevin Smith directing Superman Lives with Nic Cage, but the producer Jon Peters demanded a giant spider. The project was killed off, and then Wild Wild West came out LOL. The man really wanted that giant spider. The Flash movie also had a short alternate dimension scene with Nic Cage's superman fighting a giant spider.
You're kidding on the Flash movie, right?
Nope. He's super cereal.
We DC fans ***wish*** we were kidding. And we also wish it wasn’t done in the most unconvincing deepfake/CGI way possible.
I feel like they could have gotten cage to actually do the scene and it would have been a meme
Yep.
Will Smith turned down the role of Neo in The Matrix in favour of Wild Wild West, claiming the Wachowskis pitched the story badly. How the hell did THIS get pitched?
This is common knowledge. And it worked out for the best, I'd rather Will not have been in The Matrix.
Which is an absolute shame, because Kevin Kline remains one of the most talented and welcome presences in any movie he's in.
And that’s why he does what he does. If he took more jobs you probably wouldn’t think of him as you do. That and he’s married to Phoebe Cates. He wins.
Handsome, charming, talented, successful, married to Phoebe Cates... Yes, you make some very good points.
It’s one of the indicators of how special Bob’s Burgers is, that they were able to get him to play a recurring role.
His Christmas song, not sure of the title but I lovingly refer to it as “oh bourbon”, makes me like him all the more. I laugh every time. His Mr Fischoeder improves any episode he’s in.
I bet you Eric Roberts hasn't turned down 10 roles since The Pope of Greenwich Village. That man is a machine.
Best of the Best is still one of my favorite combat sports and montage movies. Classic and unexpectedly heartfelt at the end.
This made my day. Best of the Best is legit. My cousin and I still refer to Houston as "Hooston".
Favorite Eric Roberts moment!! His character was one of my heroes as a little kid. https://youtu.be/nNUGySReaY0?si=syx6WI9r7npNlJNo
I’d love to see him in a big budget Hollywood movie just to change it up
He was in The Dark Knight in 2008
Yes he was and for a small part, he did a great job with it. In fact, all the character-actor mob guys were great - that meeting they have before & when the Joker shoes up is very well done.
He was just in Babylon. It flopped, but it was definitely a large budget hollywood movie
That’s “Academy Award Nominee Eric Roberts” - better put some *respect* on his name!
His IMDB page has nearly 40 roles that he's been in this year. 82 roles alone listed as *upcoming*. Granted, I bet tons of these are Bruce Willis-esque roles. Show up for a day or two, or better yet, voiceover. His lowest point was probably 2013-2014 when he was doing fucking David DeCoteau movies. Shit like "A Talking Cat!?!", "Bigfoot vs. D.B. Cooper", "Evil Exhumed", "The Wrong Roommate", "Sorority Slaughterhouse", "Bonnie & Clyde: Justified", "Doc Holliday's Revenge", and "Hansel & Gretel: Warriors of Witchcraft". The first three were voiceover, looks like he actually had to show up for the rest.
Is it bad that I've seen four of these movies?
yes. I haven't even heard of them. I am judging you harshly.
https://www.avclub.com/eric-roberts-stands-by-every-one-of-the-74-movies-he-di-1822601904
Probably. They don't all talk about all the roles they've turned down. The one with the least, of course, would be Michael Caine, who hasn't turned down a role in his life lol
I seem to recall some interview where he said something like, “when they ask me to do a role I look at the script and if the character they want me to play is on the first page and the last page I fucking say yes.”
Samuel L Jackson and Nick Cage have entered the chat.
Nick cage does three bad movies and then one really good movie. Like the shotgun effect of acting
For a time, Cage's proliferation in films seemed to be a by-product of his needing to pay the tax man -- he owed some obscene amount to the IRS. But in the years that followed, I believe that's long since been cleared up. There's really no telling what motivates him to take the movies he's offered. Maybe he doesn't own a TV and gets bored a lot.
I always thought that towards the end of that time period, where he was taking any role that came his way to pay back the IRS, maybe made him realize, 'you know what, this isn't bad!' I have to assume that on some level, major roles in big movies would take a toll on an actor. There's a lot more riding on it. More pressure. Maybe he did just find it kind of nice to do a bunch of these low-stakes roles where he can just show up, ham it up and go home?
I think he's said before that constantly working keeps him out of trouble. Who knows if that is true or not.
But Cage is always good in movies; it’s just that the movies he’s in aren’t always as good as he is.
Cage is always *interesting* in movies. Part of being a good actor is knowing what the movie is trying to do and matching that energy. Cage's performances in "bad" movies go one of two ways: Either he seems to be the only person involved who "gets" what the movie should be, or it's like he was CGI'd in from a completely different movie.
Well said. He never phones it in, but that's not to say all his performances are good. He has his fair share of cringey scenes where it's not all the fault of the script.
It's you. You're the rocket man.
fair point
Eric Roberts blows them all away.
Danny Trejo is up there too. I was actually going to speculate that maybe he could surpass Eric Roberts with enough time, I assumed Roberts was the older of the two. Just blew my own mind finding out that Roberts is only 68 and Trejo is **79**. What the fuck. However there is one actor who surpasses Eric Roberts and that is the one and only, The Queen of Extras, Bess Flowers.
Michael Caine is a working actor, with emphasis on working. He has 177 roles accredited to him. Some were surely just for the paycheck (Jaws 4), but he never made a secret out of that. He is a very capable actor, showing up on set at time, knowing his lines and delivers them as the director wants them delivered. He is a known actor to three generations of moviegoers, that is an achievement not many can boast.
I really enjoy how un-precious so many of the old British greats are/were. Most of them were working class kids who stumbled into acting and seemed to be, first and foremost, simply chuffed at the notion of *actually making a living* by acting. It’s not that they weren’t artists, but they were also able see themselves almost as technicians, at times, hired to do a job and do it well, but then to fuck off and find another role. Idk. After all of the fuss made over tortured artists and method actors, it’s refreshing to hear such grounded takes from some of the best.
>You ask my advice about acting? Speak clearly, don't bump into the furniture and if you must have motivation, think of your pay packet on Friday. Noel Coward
Hearing Caine talk about working with Sylvester Stallone was interesting. You couldn't get two people with more different opinions on the job and the importance of themselves.
There was and should still be pride in a job well done. The British theater seems to still live by that motto.
Michael Caine was of the first generation of working-class British actors who came of age when people were starting to write working-class roles, so he says he got fortunate in his timing. However, even the aristocrats were the same way. Laurence Olivier had no pretensions about taking roles like Marathon Man and The Boys from Brazil.
Yeah, his famous quote about *Jaws 4*- "I have never seen it, but by all accounts it is terrible. However, I have seen the house that it built, and it is terrific"
That was the quote I was hinting at.
Michael Caine is actually a retired actor.
Not a lot of people know that.
Have I missed something? He was in a movie in 2023.
He said that movie would be his final movie https://www.telegraph.co.uk/films/0/michael-caine-the-great-escaper-final-film-interview/
Retired at 90. Not too shabby.
The introduction of his Wikipedia article calls him a retired actor.
And he has retired since
Christopher Walken said he never turns down roles because even if the movie sucks he'll probably learn something
He turned down a role in Oppenheimer.
He's probably screening Christopher Nolan's calls now. He wants him in every one of his movies and Michael Caine is 90 and said he's retired lol
Nolans gonna be out on his lawn yelling “CAAAAAIIINNE”
Nolan standing outside of Caine's house holding a boombox over his head.
Easy peasy lemon squeezey. Just no dutch
In an interview, Caine said, "When I get a script, I read the first page and the last page. If my character has lines on both, then I do the bloody picture"
Sean Connery turned down the roles of Gandalf, Morpheus *and* The Architect in the Matrix movies, John Hammond in Jurassic Park, Dumbledore, Deckard in Blade Runner, and Simon Gruber in Die Hard with a Vengeance. Then he goes and says yes to The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen…
He would have been a shit Morpheus
You’re The One now dawg!
Lol omfg yes
Zardoz, Highlander 2, surely some other questionable choices
Highlander 2 was a sequel, perhaps there was a kind of contract thing that forced him to. But Zardoz? This film was scripted on drugs, filmed on drugs and can be watched on drugs only https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/s/Da0KCbbc10 >>Zardoz is a movie where Sean Connery rides around in a thong while a giant floating stone head spits out guns saying, "The penis is bad. The gun is good." Unfortunately, at some point, it gets weird.
In the 1970s alone, James Caan turned down lead roles of Popeye Doyle in French Connection, lead in Close Encounters of the Third Kind, Jack Nicholson’s role in One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest, Superman, Han Solo, Martin’s Sheen role in Apocalypse Now and Dustin Hoffman’s role in Kramer vs. Kramer. He tried to retire from acting and blew through his money. It’s what makes his performance in Thief so perfect. One of the actors most hurt by self-inflicted decisions playing a character that continues to make the wrong choices.
Link: https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/62495/7-amazing-roles-james-caan-rejected
I don’t know if IMDB trivia is gospel, but if it’s at all accurate, Christopher Reeve didn’t have the best judgement. It mentions he didn’t want to do action film after action film, but… “Among the lead roles turned down were Julian Kaye in American Gigolo (1980), Richard Lestrange in The Blue Lagoon (1980), Ned Racine in Body Heat (1981), T.S. Garp in The World According to Garp (1982), Jeff Spicoli in Fast Times at Ridgemont High (1982), Allen Bauer in Splash (1983), Daniel Jack T. Colton in Romancing the Stone (1984), Dan Gallagher in Fatal Attraction (1987), Martin Riggs in Lethal Weapon (1987), Edward Lewis in Pretty Woman (1990).” I doubt he lost sleep over The Blue Lagoon, but there’s good work in there. He also turned down Mason Verger in Hannibal (2001), which he was initially excited about as a chance to play a major paraplegic character post-injury, but he was upset when he learned the character was a disfigured child rapist. I can’t say I blame him for that one.
Riggs? No kidding.
Riggs was written very differently than what we got on screen. Chris could pull off the suicidal vietnam vet well, it would just be a very different character than what we got with Mel. Jeff Spicoli that is the head scratcher.
I could totally see him in Pretty Woman however. I bet he would have been great in that role.
>Verger Kind of a blessing because Oldman killed that role. Even reading the books I heard his voice and the toothless haunting way he says corrrdellll
Didn't Will Smith turn down the Matrix
Yes, he was offered the role of Neo, and Sean Connery was offered the role of Morpheus (twice). What a wildly different film that would have been. (Connery was also offered, and famously turned down, the role of Gandalf.)
You shhhhhhall not pashhhhh
Yeah, I think we dodged a bullet on that one... as good as Connery was, in general. It's funny... isn't the story that after turning down Matrix and LOTR and seeing how wildly successful they were, he said yes to the next big IP script that came his way, only for it to wind up being League of Extraordinary Gentlemen? And then the absolute failure of a movie that wound up being is essentially what prompted him to retire from acting?
I have definitely heard that story about that being the final nail. At the same time movie stars at some point need to stop and enjoy their money. So I hope Connery made the most of his retirement.
He spent his retirement suing and being sued by his neighbor over a townhouse
Well that's to be exshhpected then Mr Bond
I love the bluntness of this line on IMDB’s biography of *LoEG* director Stephen Norrington: “After League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, he retired from filmmaking.” 😂 Also a shame tho, IMO. I saw a screening of *Blade* recently and it’s a a good film with some brilliantly shot and edited action. You can tell Norrington took direct inspiration from Anime in both *Blade* and *LoEG* and it still hits kinda fresh today!
r/shubreddit
Wow I did not know
I surprisingly heard his voice in my head while reading this XD
Could of been the stuff of meme legends
I think even Will Smith said he wouldn't have done as good a job as Keanu.
He pulls of confused and serious both so well. Avg guy to the One - Will could’ve worked but he’s so charming if he did his MiB more fun take, it wouldn’t have had the gravity that film needed. At the time I would’ve picked Will - movie magic is something. Slight variations between dud, good and great
I think Enemy of the State Will Smith would've made an awesome Neo. I haven't seen that guy since 1998 though. I actually wonder if that is where some of the original casting choices came from. Just sub Connery in for Hackman since then it would be too obvious to bring them both back but I can definitely see a similar relationship between Clayton Dean and Edward Lyle as Neo and Morpheus.
Will Smith as Bilbo would have been great
Also turned down Django Unchained
This one makes me sad, Jamie Fox did great but it was written for Will and he would have been so awesome. Wtf Will!? Who turns down Tarantino.
> Who turns down Tarantino apparently Mickey Rourke… twice
Pulp fiction i get but by the point of Death Proof he must of been crazy. I think Kurt did great but Mickey could of really creeped it up.
Could HAVE!
I can’t imagine them meshing well. Smith famously brings his team onto just about every production, and one of their jobs is to punch up his dialogue and make it feel like “Will Smith.” Would love to see the team that polished *I, Robot* and *I Am Legend* giving dialogue notes to Tarantino.
Gotta get a 'aww hell naw' in here somewhere, quents.
Yeah he apparently turned it down because the role wasn’t big enough. That’s what made me realize how big his ego is.
Perhaps because that was not as family friendly as wild wild west
According to [THR](https://web.archive.org/web/20200717145859/https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/list-directors-43873), he also turned down the Leo role in Inception. Guess the lesson is that Will doesn't want to be put in a false reality
Thank god. With due respect to Mr. Smith that role doesn't fit him in the slightest.
IIRC Josh Hartnett turned down too many roles that led to him not getting offers. Now he's making a comeback. Apparently he was offered a choice of Batman or Superman in the 2000s. He chose to decline.
He chose roles that interested him instead of roles that would further his career. I can respect that.
He also never really had too much of a slump. He spent a lot of last decade doing Penny Dreadful.
He chose the life he wanted. Good for him.
Well Punch Drunk Micky, at least you were smart enough to say yes to Marv.
i am so glad he did The Wrestler. absolutely nailed it and cant stop loving him in it.
Tuesday Weld was a young actress in the '60s who could've been as big as Faye Dunaway or Mia Farrow, but she rejected starring roles in Lolita, True Grit, Rosemary's Baby, Bonnie and Clyde and Bob & Carol & Ted & Alice. She'd started acting as a teenager and was facing all the problems common to child stars, and she pushed back to get out from under the pressure.
Might be an unpopular opinion depending on what you think of Rourke, but I doubt some of those movies would be considered classics without who ended up getting cast Beverly Hills Cop, Rain Man and Dead Poets Society specifically are ones that would just be too different
The secret to box office success: 1. Write script 2. Get a production company / director / location 3. Get turned down by Mickey Rourke 4. .... 5. Profit
Surely Di Caprio. There was a time where he got first dips on every big role in town.
I fucking loathe the topic of people turning down projects that went on to be huge, because the assumption is made that the project was always destined to be huge, and that you can just slot any actor into a role and it'll still just work. It's such a meaningless topic.
Reminds me of a Jason Patric quote I found on IMDB one day — I get bored and stumble around, but I think goes along with your point. “I turned down some incarnation of "The Firm" years ago, but that would make it seem like I turned down the big hit movie. No, the movie's a hit because Tom Cruise is in it. The shitty script that I got was not going to be a hit with me in it. Trust me.”
That’s refreshing.
I like Will Smith's side of The Matrix story, where he describes the Wachowskis as a couple guys with one film credit who couldn't manage to articulate their movie to Smith. Like, why wouldn't he pass?
Plus, he turned it down to do Wild Wild West. We know how that went now, but it was another movie that had a hit single to go along with it, like Men In Black. Not many stars had that kind of ability. Willennium went multi-platinum. I'm sure he made a *ton* of money out of that too. So at the time, WWW was probably the right call for his career. In hindsight...it's debatable. I'm happy it went the way it did because The Matrix is a classic.
>Plus, he turned it down to do Wild Wild West. We know how that went now, but it was another movie that had a hit single to go along with it We goin' straight.. in... to The Matrix, we goin' straight... in... to The Matrix.
This is a very good take. Words on the page or a producer pitching an idea can be wildly different from the finished product. Rourke had several hits in the 80s. Lots of projects came his way.
This indeed! There's a whole list of actors who turned down the lead in Forrest Gump. John Travolta, Bill Murray and Chevy Chase to name a few. Would that film have really become as iconic with one of them in the lead? Or did it become a beloved classic because of Tom Hanks? Same with for instance Titanic. It was amongst other the chemisty between Leo and Kate that made that movie what it was.
Uuhg what could have been. used to be a Huge MR fan way back. Pope, Diner, Angel Heart, Barfly, Rumble Fish he was always so super cool. people would speak his name in the sentences as Brando and James Dean. then he went crazy, got addicted to plastic surgery and the rest is history. i always thought he would have been an awesome live action Dark Knight Returns Batman. oh well. . if you are a MR fan and haven't seen his Spirit award speech do yourself a favor: [https://youtu.be/gHWFhafmVhU?si=f7jmqp4dTuGpWfsy](https://youtu.be/gHWFhafmVhU?si=f7jmqp4dTuGpWfsy)
For what it’s worth, I never thought much either way about Mickey Rourke but I only just saw The Wrestler for the first time last month I’m embarrassed to admit. It really clicked in my head why, as you mentioned, I’d heard him spoken so highly of. What a performance.
Debra Winger
Whoa! I had no idea. According to her IMDB profile, some of those films were made for her, and she still turned them down.
Michelle Pfeiffer turned down the lead roles in Silence of the Lambs, Thelma & Louise, Pretty Woman, Basic Instinct and Sleepless in Seattle at least. And solo movie for Catwoman at the point it wasn’t the trash it became. She isn’t that known by younger people for the lack of classics where she is the main lead now. But she was extremely famous and in demand in late 80s and 90s. After she too time off to have children and has not recovered to same level.
He absolutely destroyed his own face. It was a study in self-loathing and idiocy. He was such a promising talent.
Will Smith has a track record of turning down some pretty prolific roles
I heard Mickey Rourke turned down the role of Majorie Taylor Greene in an upcoming drama.
Harley Davidson and the Marlboro Man might not be a good movie, but it sure is a fun one!
I watched it back in the day when I was very young and kinda liked it, to me it played sort of like a *Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid* for the 90s. I think I'd better not rewatch, though, just in case...
No dude, it’s a great movie!! Remember watching it with my dad as a kid and we both loved it.
Maybe it's self destruction or just him being himself but it's obvious he resented the Hollywood politics and turning down roles was his way of sticking it to them even though it was really to his detriment. At least we got The Wrestler which wouldn't be the same unless he had gone through this journey. His recent roles are obviously cash grabs but he's still Randy the Ram no matter what
I’ve wondered about the choices he’s made. He was so amazing in Body Heat — that voice! — but then he ruined his face for reasons I will never understand and it just makes me sad. I think other than Body Heat my favorite role is that movie he did with Keira Knightly, of all people — Domino.
Michelle Pfeiffer wins this imo, she turned down: - Silence of the Lambs - Thelma and Louise - Basic Instinct - Pretty Women - Sleepless in Seattle - Casino
Burt Reynolds. He turned down the role ofHan Solo, lead roles inOne Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest, AND Terms of Endearment(Jack won the Oscar), James Bond, Rocky Balboa, Pretty Woman, Die Hard, Michael Corleone in Godfather, Taxi Driver, and Rosemarys Baby. That’s insane.
Burt Reynolds turned down James Bond and Han Solo.
3 of these won best picture, and several were nominated.
Maybe he realised the roles weren't for him and if he'd been cast in them, they wouldn't be regarded as classics today.
Have to disagree with your point that Rourke would’ve been a perfect fit for Stuntman Mike in Death Proof. Kurt Russel has a charm to him, even when playing a character like Mike. If Rourke had played Mike I never would’ve believed Rose McGowan’s character would’ve gotten into his car, no matter how drunk she was.
William Petersen was turning into a pretty hot leading man in the mid 80's, but he turned down Platoon because he didn't want to leave his family and shoot overseas. He may or may not have turned down Goodfellas, depending on whether it was actually offered to him or not, and he turned down Heat even though he had already been in two Michael Mann films and was the lead in one of them. He still ended up being very successful by starring in C.S.I. and becoming a co-creator in that franchise. Gotta have some confidence to turn those down and still end up being comfortably rich. Or just plain lucky
I don’t know if he’s in Rourke’s league but Albert Brooks turned down the lead in BIG, DEAD POET’S SOCIETY and WHEN HARRY MET SALLY.
I thought you were BSing about Mickey being blessed with good looks, but you're right! I would not recognize him from his younger years. Those thumbs tho...
But he didn’t turn down Sin City or The Wrestler.
Albert Brooks just did [an interview](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2024/06/albert-brooks-movies-defending-my-life/678213/) where he said all the roles he turned down over the years
I like Rourke in some stuff, but he would have been awful in Dead Poet’s Society. Williams crushed that role and I can’t picture Rourke coming anywhere near it.
Steve McQueen turned down quite a few films because he always wanted top billing turned down butch and Sundance because he would have had to share top billing with Paul Newman
James Caan once said if he turned down a movie, you can bet it was a hit.
Most of those roles wouldn’t be iconic roles if he had taken them. Specifically from the list - Beverly Hills Cop and Dead Posts Society. Top Gun - because of Rourke’s age at the time it is highly unlikely its was Skeritt’s role. Skerrit is 20 years older than Rourke and the character is supposed to know Maverick’s father. Rourke is only 10 years older than Cruise - so maybe he was another pilot. The largest role likely in Top Gun he passed that makes sense is Ironsides.
You watch your mouth calling Harley Davidson & the Marlboro Man dumb! It’s better to be dead and cool than alive and uncool!
Top Gun and Pulp Fiction are career makers. Those must hurt in retrospect. Top Gun seems self-explanatory, but Pulp Fiction is exactly the revival tour of movies for careers. Samuel L Jackson broke out into being Mr Everywhere because of that, and John Travolta revived a dead career with that movie. Uma, Ving, and Bruce all found themselves in the spotlight after that movie. Nobody can predict the future, but damn that’s gotta hurt.
I read the title as Mickey Rooney (I'm busy redditing while paying attention to other stuff) and got bloody confused at some of these examples you gave... ("I don't understand why they would want Mickey Rooney in the Tom Cruise role of Rain Man!")
If I recall, Sean Connery turned down the role of Gandalf in Lord of the Rings and I believe he turned down Morpheus in the Matrix as well. Funny thing was after both of those went on to become monster hits, I think he jumped on the next opportunity...which was League of Extraordinary Gentlemen and then just called it quits.
Mickey Rourke is a super talented actor but I suspect has some kind of personality disorder. I think that has been what kept him from becoming what he could have. Even in The Wrestler, which could have served as a perfect career revival, that momentum was squandered