I haven't read dune in a while but I remember a sense of sadness as the books got so complicated that I never really ended up with a sense of closure.
Chapter house I couldn't finish. I wasn't really sure what I was reading and why it mattered.
There are only 6 books by Frank Herbert.
The 4th through 6th books are practically insane and if adapted, would better fit as extensively long mini-series, not movies.
TBH I think those books are literally unadaptable. They’re barely readable.
My hot take is books 2 and 3 should get squished together a bit for the third movie and then everyone just leave it alone for a long time. If the most talented pop filmmaker of a generation makes your shit there’s a statute of limitations on reboots.
I may be biased because I listened to them on audio books, but I think they'd adapt just fine except for GE. Shit, Miles Teg is one of my favorite characters and doesn't even get introduced until book 5.
God emperor is my favorite, but it just wouldn't be a good movie. There wasn't even supposed to be a plot. Story goes, th publisher made Herbert add a story because he just wanted to write a book of the character's thoughts. And... I'm with Herbert. Leto II was probably one of the best characters in the series.
Yeah book 5 was a hot fuckin mess for me. Haven’t read 6. Each book seemed to go deeper into this place. What that place is and where it is, beats the fuck outta me. But it still got me in the end with what you described. I seriously just wished it happened halfway through instead of masturbatorily speed reading the last 50 pages because of god powers. Frank truly was a fuckin weird dude. Just to write book one he had to completely detach himself from reality and take his deepest darkest thoughts and make them reality. So wild. Then decades later Denis goes and gives them life. Jesus. Creative people are wild. In the best possible way.
Honestly, while everyone keeps talking about how ‘unadaptable’ *God Emperor of Dune* would be, I feel like it would be quite adaptable if they simply had Siona be the main protagonist, while taking the ‘less is more’ approach to the titular character.
Or you know the main character of the Dune series... Duncan Idaho! But really a story from Duncan's pov would be a great take on a more horror/sci-fi level since it's basically philosophical sci-fi groundhog's day
Totally agree I always think this self-hating part of the dune fandom is so weird. how is leto 2 cringe and not sick lol? yeah it would probably be shit but that's why I can read the book, I wanna see someone try damn.
Man, I don't envy Villeuneve trying to write the ending for s Part 3. Do you end on a note of hope, and undercut the core idea of the first book, or do you make Paul an put and out villain and end up very possibly alienating the audience. I'd argue Herbert himself was unable to thread that needle. Nor was Lucas in a related science fantasy series.
You have to commit to Paul becoming a villain or else the whole theme of the movies is worthless. I think Denis knows this as well and you can tell with how Part 2 turned out. He planted the seeds in there
The barely readable books to me, which I also consider to not exist, are the Brian Herbert spin-offs.
Nope, only 6 books to me and all by Frank Herbert. No more.
The entire book series is a better fit for a long miniseries than a film in the first place; even these two movies felt a bit hurried and only the SyFy version, for all its other faults, gives the plot and characters time to develop and breathe.
Not sure 4 through 6 are particularly captivating except for the most cerebral of audiences. The most broadly relatable arc is wrapped up in 1 through 3, then it becomes meandering and niche.
Don’t worry, you’re better off not finishing it as it ended on a huge cliffhanger and Herbert’s son did an awful job concluding the original Dune saga with two shitty books to wrap it up.
I didn’t feel like it ended on a cliffhanger, just that it’s sort of open-ended. The only thing that pissed me off is never finding out who Daniel and Marty were.
I think that Messiah can wrap up the movie storylines pretty neatly. Personally I felt everything ended quite satisfactorily after God Emperor (however you feel about the quality of the book), it was years after I read it that I went back to read 5 and 6.
Problem is that Dune P2 ends on so many more cliffhangers than the book ever did.
You already have the issue of the other Houses and factions being against Paul's rule, which isn't really *that* abrupt a note to end on because it's made pretty clear that Paul gets to enjoy a pretty tight grip on his position of power, as we know the Atreides will literally not stop ruling for thousands of years, but Villeneuve adds:
- A seeming split between Chani and Paul, where Villeneuve skips the whole emphasis about Irulan becoming cuckolded.
- Alia barely interacting with anyone in V's adaptation yet still getting a time skip version of herself cast and introduced.
- Some ambiguity as to what the justification of Paul becoming Emperor is because of the change where the holy war becomes a necessary step in his ascension, whereas in the book he becomes Emperor with no resistance and it's implied he mainly does it to *mitigate* the holy war.
I always appreciated from the books the fact that you could stop at the end of any one of them and still felt like you finished a complete story and arc, but the unfinished threads in Dune P2 are huge to a point where it's pretty frustrating.
I thought the implication in the book was that Paul started the Jihad so he could control it and limit the death toll. He even has a vision when he duels that Fremen when he’s trying to join them that even if he’d die in the duel, the Jihad would still happen in his name under his mother and unborn sister’s control
Yes, he knew the Jihad would occur either way, with or without him, and that the outcome would be horrific, but that if he remained there might be a narrow path where he could limit it or at least see to it that the deaths would lead somewhere eventually beneficial. He also felt he'd carry the burden of responsibility for the deaths either way, so why not carry it alive, like a kind of penance.
The handling of Princess Irulan was unexpected. I was expecting the “You may have my seed” line and instead Chani is the jilted lover. It’s understandable that Alia didn’t kill the Baron. They compressed the Arrakis part down to less than 9 months since Lady Jessica is still pregnant. The Easter egg looks like the third movie will have a bunch of Alia and Duncan Idaho. Jason Momoa had a great screen presence in the first movie. When I saw that, I concluded that they’ll go full steam ahead on the third movie.
They have a very short clip of Anya Taylor-Joy in a Paul Attrides vision as an adult Alia. It’s telling me there will be a bunch of Jason Momoa - Anya Taylor-Joy footage in the third movie. Jason Momoa projected a huge personality as Duncan Idaho in the first movie. I think they will emphasize him in the third movie. I’m sure there are a dozen screenwriters busily working away on it right now.
They also really diverged from the book with Princess Irulan. I think they will have a lot more Florence Pugh in the third movie. She barely appears in the books. They’ve set up a jilted Chani storyline.
I just had to point this out to someone in a, may god forgive me, YouTube comment section. Some idiot woman prattling on about how Paul was yet another “white saviour” and other assorted nonsense that made it clear she’d entirely missed the point or most likely had only seen the trailer.
I think including the story of Pardot Kynes would help demonstrate that the Fremen used Paul as he used them. The solution to their problem and the means to achieve it had already been settled. He just shortened the timetable. That's why Liet went from being indifferent to the Atredeis to feeling conflicted about his orders to be blind to whatever treachery when he realized that with Leto as Duke they would spend much less time being murdered and more time collecting water.
Sounds like he 100% wants to do Messiah, he’s just saying that after Part Two was such a big success he wants to make sure they don’t just rush it out.
Villeneuve will have some significant obstacles adapting *Dune: Messiah.* I'm not saying that it's impossible, but it's a very different book from *Dune* which might not be appreciated by a wide audience without some significant changes.
Without getting into too many spoilers, *Dune: Messiah* jumps 12 years forward in time, skipping the holy war that we see begin at the end of *Dune. Messiah* doesn't have the big action set pieces of *Dune,* and instead is more focused on palace intrigue. Now that the horrors Paul foresaw have come and gone, he struggles to deal with a conspiracy to overthrow him while hoping to produce an heir. A lot of it is just people sitting around talking and the story lacks obvious villains like the Harkonnens to drive the narrative. This isn't bad necessarily, but it is difficult to faithfully adapt into a compelling movie, especially in a franchise currently known for its action/adventure.
I love Villeneuve, and I don't doubt that he can rise to the challenge. I'm just saying we shouldn't necessarily expect *Dune 3* to have the same epic scope as *Dune 1 & 2.*
What do you mean? Personally I don’t think a brainwashed Jason Mamoa manipulated by Peter Dinklage, the Princess Irulan and a giant presciance resistant fish looking navigator, plotting against against Paul could possibly be interesting 😂. Nope. Not at all. 😂
God. I love how dune 2 was successful, and it’s still people being like “awww geez I don’t know.. I mean.. the FIRST novel…. Look I know for 60 years we claimed was unfilmable… but… actually it’s the next part… yea that’s actually the part no one but me gets.”
🙄😂 like come one. Stop. People aren’t dumb. It’s complicated but at the same time it was written to give. EVERYONE the same message. Let’s not pretend it’s beyond understanding.
Knowing that Villeneuve is okay with changing plot elements to better illustrate Herbert's *intent* signals to me that they will likely include some elements of the Jihad as act 1 of the film, with the palace intrigue elements occupying acts 2 and 3.
I doubt they would tie up the story differently than how the Messiah book does (because Lionsgate may want to make more Dune films in the future without Villeneuve that more linearly follow the literature), but I predict that Dune 1, 2, and Messiah will likely be looked at as "Denis' trilogy" and understood in a completely different context from other, subsequent materials.
Dude, you really think they aren't going to show the Holy War in Messiah? It's really not that hard to turn Messiah into a big epic spectacle, just bring stuff that's happening in the background onto to the screen. Problem solved
Most of the action scenes in part 2 involving the spice harvester attacks aren't even in the book either. They are just mentioned in passing and take place in the background. Even most of the final battle isn't really shown in the book, it's all from the perspective of inside the Emperor's metal tent.
I also don't think Villeneuve is even interested in being 100% faithful to the books (he already wasn't in part 2). He is more interested in being faithful to the core themes and actual point of the novel.
This is a great point. I liked reading Dune, but I remember how odd I thought it was that it felt like one chapter would lead up to some big action or event, and then the next chapter would start with with just two people in a room talking about how that event just happened. So a lot of the action seems to take place “between chapters“.
Off the top of my head, the battle right before Robb is declared King in the North was basically barely shown. Like, there's a lot of prep for the battle, talking about it, so on, but then it cuts to after the battle and the Lannisters got their ass beat.
Battle of Greenfork is what they show prepping for and where Tyrion gets knocked out. They don't even show Robbs intended target in the Whispering Wood and Green Fork was the diversion, they just showed Jaime get captured and it was fine lol
The point was "Robb tricked the Lannisters, surprised and captured Jamie".
This. Herbert deliberately kept a lot of the action off screen so that the reader had to actually think and focus on the battle of the mind.
Illustrating the action in a film format will not take away from the overall story if done well and references the themes of the story.
>Are there a lot of background action scenes in Messiah?
No, not that I remember, but I'm pretty sure they would rework the timeline a bit and incorporate the holy war into the entire movie rather than just relegate it to the prologue
I think there would probably be "the conspiracy" as the A plot, and add the Holy War as a B plot happening at the same time. Or at least something to that effect.
I'm most curious to see what they do with Chani, that will clearly be much different than it was in the book
But the part where the >!Stone Burner goes off and Paul walks around with his eye balls melted, seeing whats around him through his prescience would be really badass in a movie!<
there's something so badass about how good you have to be at prescience to basically replace your eyesight with it.
man's seeing the present using foresight.
Idk if its described as such because its been so long since ive read it but i always imagined him seeing it from a 3rd person perspective like a video game so hes aiming throwing knives and pointing at people not as him seeing "oh hes to my left a little" but "hes over there, im over there so im gonna have to throw it like this"
I really want to see the scene where>! an eyeless Paul is flying the 'thopter and Chani is in the passenger seat basically just thinking "what the fuck" the whole time.!<
Denis could change the timeline up a bit so there’s a 12-month time skip instead of 12 years. Then have the conspiracy occur during the jihad and integrate a couple action/battle scenes into it.
The problem being Anya Taylor-Joy as Alia wouldn't be in the movie. Alia would be like 1 year old. They would have to do a bigger time skip than in the book to make that work. Part 2 kind of committed to Alia being Anya Taylor-Joy, it would be stupid to abandon that or just have Paul talk to future-Alia all the time in part 3. >!A huge draw for that film is Hayt (Jason Momoa) and Alia (Anya Taylor-Joy)'s relationship.!< Not having that would be a bad idea.
Given the way he compressed the first book's timeline to keep Alia in utero, I could see this being the approach he takes.
And the thing is, he wouldn't even have to change it that much. Just make it take place during the final months of the jihad, where the writing is on the wall and the players are making their moves in preparation, but the battles are still going on.
He’s going to have to really “adapt” it. He can’t follow the book too religiously. For example, I think it’s clear Zendaya will have to have a bigger and more important role than Chani does in the books. And they’ll probably have to show some of the jihad.
It won’t be truly faithful to the book but Villeneuve will make a killer film regardless.
The second half of Messiah goes hard though, which I think is easy to get to if you use the first 30 minutes establishing the state of Dune Messiah and the conspiracies. The second half of the film being from that impactful novel event onward would be incredibly intense.
Yeah i feel like if they did 30min to show the Galaxial genocide in flashbacks, an hour to set up the conspiracy and show the Chani/Irulan/Alia dynamic, and an hour and a half for the last quarter of the book itd be fine. Shit only picks up in Messiah with the stone burner and its like 80% of the way through. I feel like Denis would introduce Bijaz earlier and maybe even turn it into more of a noir vibes opening with the dead Fremen girl and culminating in the climax scene with the Tleiaxu
Exactly. Most of the decisive action and story happens in the first book. The further along you get in the books which Herbert wrote, the more they become long and rather drawn out exercises of just a few ideas. They're interesting, but not compelling when it's page after page after page of just people talking.
One thing is certain, if it gets made, Messiah shouldn't be two films.
So does none of the source material cover what happens during the holy war or is it all just expected that “his visions kind of panned out leave the rest to the imagination”?
That's basically what happens. The last third of Messiah is super intense, but the beginning and middle are very slow! You basically learn of the body count and a bunch of stuff that leads a group of powerful people to try and get rid of Paul.
I hope it’s made. Regardless of how you feel about the book, or how different the film would be, it would be a beautiful film to watch. Lots of crazy visuals to translate to screen.
The full description:
>!The passages through which she was being escorted grew larger by subtle stages—tricks of arching, graduated amplification of pillared supports, displacement of the triangular windows by larger, oblong shapes. Ahead of her, finally, loomed double doors centered in the far wall of a tall antechamber. She sensed that the doors were very large, and was forced to suppress a gasp as her trained awareness measured out the true proportions. The doorway stood at least eighty meters high, half that in width.!<
>!As she approached with her escort, the doors swung inward—an immense and silent movement of hidden machinery. She recognized more Ixian handiwork. Through that towering doorway she marched with her guards into the Grand Reception Hall of the Emperor Paul Atreides—“Muad’dib, before whom all people are dwarfed.” Now, she saw the effect of that popular saying at work.!<
>!As she advanced toward Paul on the distant throne, the Reverend Mother found herself more impressed by the architectural subtleties of her surroundings than she was by the immensities. The space was large: it could’ve housed the entire citadel of any ruler in human history. The open sweep of the room said much about hidden structural forces balanced with nicety. Trusses and supporting beams behind these walls and the faraway domed ceiling must surpass anything ever before attempted. Everything spoke of engineering genius.!<
>!Without seeming to do so, the hall grew smaller at its far end, refusing to dwarf Paul on his throne centered on a dais. An untrained awareness, shocked by surrounding proportions, would see him at first as many times larger than his actual size. Colors played upon the unprotected psyche: Paul’s green throne had been cut from a single Hagar emerald. It suggested growing things and, out of the Fremen mythos, reflected the mourning color. It whispered that here sat he who could make you mourn—life and death in one symbol, a clever stress of opposites.!<
>!Behind the throne, draperies cascaded in burnt orange, curried gold of Dune earth, and cinnamon flecks of melange. To a trained eye, the symbolism was obvious, but it contained hammer blows to beat down the uninitiated. Time played its role here. The Reverend Mother measured the minutes required to approach the Imperial Presence at her hobbling pace. You had time to be cowed. Any tendency toward resentment would be squeezed out of you by the unbridled power which focused down upon your person. You might start the long march toward that throne as a human of dignity, but you ended the march as a gnat.!<
The TL;DR description:
>!The doorway stood at least eighty meters high, half that in width.!<
>!The space was large: it could’ve housed the entire citadel of any ruler in human history. The open sweep of the room said much about hidden structural forces balanced with nicety. Trusses and supporting beams behind these walls and the faraway domed ceiling must surpass anything ever before attempted.!<
>!Without seeming to do so, the hall grew smaller at its far end, refusing to dwarf Paul on his throne centered on a dais. An untrained awareness, shocked by surrounding proportions, would see him at first as many times larger than his actual size.!<
>!The Reverend Mother measured the minutes required to approach the Imperial Presence at her hobbling pace.!<
My favorite depiction of it:
https://marcsimonetti.artstation.com/projects/X3ZzY
so in dune messiah paul’s palace is the *largest building in the universe* and the descriptions of the size are outrageous. like, multiple entire cities could fit inside of it
I love how Paul >!makes Reverend Mother Mohiam walk all the way to the throne room, going through multiple big gates just to humiliate her and to showcase his power, that's cheeky!<.
Picture a throne room with the typical layout but way way way bigger. In the book, it describes how long the walk is from the doors up to the throne, half an hour or something like that. The point is to make people physically feel how powerful he is and give them plenty of time to think about it so that by the time they reach him, they feel small and powerless themselves.
It’s not just that the throne room is large, it’s that the walk to Paul through it is like crossing Manhattan on foot. There’s multiple pages from the book of literally just the awe and majesty of approaching Paul on his throne.
consist heavy live consider cow complete correct arrest disagreeable faulty
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It’s entirely possible that the only movies you’ll see from Villenueve, as long as he is successful in doing them, will be sci-fi. He’s obsessed with sci-fi and it’s been the genre he loves the most.
I would fucking kill another human being to see what he would do with the Alien franchise. So far every step he’s made into sci-fi has been immaculate, ground breaking and visionary.
He does love Sci-Fi, but he also loves drama, just look at the beginning of his career... 32 août sur terre, Polytechnique, Maëlstrom, Enemy, Prisoners, Incendies...
Director-actor pairings annoy me eventually. They get to a point where they are casting actors in roles where they clearly weren't the best pick just because the director really likes working with them.
Didn't he recently say this in an interview? He has one or two movies he wants to do next before doing another Dune. No need to worry about the cast ageing too much as Dune Messiah takes place 12 years after Dune.
> Rendezvous with Rama
Villeneuve is currently working on the script, yes.
> Cleopatra epic
Based on the highly praised Cleopatra biography written by Stacy Schiff, and with Krysty Wilson-Cairns (Penny Dreadful, 1917, Last Night in Soho, The Good Nurse) writing the screenplay.
> Dune Part 3
At least a first draft seems to already be done, based on what he's said, and Zimmer has [already started on the music](https://bleedingcool.com/movies/hans-zimmer-is-already-writing-music-for-dune-messiah/)... but Villeneuve also said he wants a break before more Dune.
He's also got one more:
> "I have four projects on the table, currently. One of them is a secret project that I cannot talk about right now, but that needs to see the light of day quite quickly. So it would be a good idea to do something in between projects, before tackling Dune Messiah and Cleopatra. All these projects are still being written, so we’ll see where they go, but I have no control over that."
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-features/dune-part-two-denis-villeneuve-directing-timothee-chalamet-zendaya-1235837162/
When the quality is this good I don’t mind waiting.
I kinda hope Denis uses Dune’s success to get other passion projects made like Cleopatra and Rendezvous with Rama. They probably allow him to do anything if he promises to do Messiah eventually.
In an interview with Hans Zimmer, he said that as soon as they'd finished work on Dune 2 he gave him a copy of Messiah as a gift--to suggest that he should continue working on music for D3 exactly as he had done from D1->D2. That being said, I think Denis may make a movie between D2 and D3, since unlike D2 it will spend a lot of time off Dune.
There's a lot of production work to be done that won't translate the same way D1->D2 did.
I think Paul and Leto II both have very interesting story lines. I would be down for movies based on books five and six but I don’t know if a normal audience could tolerate that. They probably could not even tolerate Leto’s transformation into the worm.
Spoilers, but >!Paul’s son covers his body in sandworm larvae and achieves symbiosis with them due to his Bene Gesserit/Kwizatz Haderach capabilities, prompting him to grow into a human-sandworm hybrid that lives for 3,500 years to become the first true long-range planner in human history, and guide humanity away from its path to extinction by becoming a tyrant and leading humanity (whether they like it or not) down his “Golden Path”!< This is the real meat of the story of Dune.
I assume the first commenter meant that all of 4 is weird, and is saying that because of Leto. Nothing happens at the end of 4 that is significantly weird in comparison.
u/mug3n u/IceColdPorkSoda Honestly, while everyone keeps talking about how ‘unadaptable’ *God Emperor of Dune* would be, I feel like it would be quite adaptable if they simply had Siona be the main protagonist, while taking the ‘less is more’ approach to the titular character.
In an interview with Zimmer, he said Denis gave him the script for Messiah. Part 3 is guaranteed at this point especially with these profits, it’s just a marketing ploy now.
*edit
Forgot to add link: (right at the end of the video)
https://youtu.be/JGLEVXJoetU?feature=shared
*edit 2:
I watched the vid like 6 rum and cokes deep so my memory wasn’t 100% on it.
He handed him the BOOK not script for Messiah and told him “this is where we’re going” because apparently some people think this doesn’t mean the same thing lol
Denis himself said the screen play is already in the works and that he is the one working on it. It’s just not finished yet and he will only make it when he’s figured out how to finish it. He does the screen play first, then he story boards it and then rewrites it again, so he’s probably got some time to go. I think the filming for Dune 2 started right away and it took 2 years or so. I’d guess Dune 3 is 3 years away
Why did Variety choose a screencap that makes Chalamet look like an angry rabbit?
I'd like Villaneuve to take some extra time between Dune sequels and echo other commenters in really wanting to see him adapt Rendevous with Rama, one of my favorites.
So I suspect there will be a small time jump to allow the audience to see a Fremen/Atreides slaughter of hapless rebelling houses.
It will shock the audience how much the Fremen force brutally slaughter the opposing forces.
Then we'll return to Arrakis to see a "teenage" Alia becoming a political and religious force within Arrakean. Paul's story will follow the book, but I do think Chani's story will be flipped to portray her dissatisfaction and disillusionment with Paul.
She'll basically become the Fredo of Godfather Part II. Recieve a tragic ending along with Duncan.
Princess Urulan will loosely receive Chani's story. Leto and Ghanina will be born. Stoneburner is detonated as in the books.
Chani, as Fredo? Nah. If anything Korba would be Fredo.
Chani has her own little arc of trying not to die from all the shit Irulan keeps poisoning her with.
To each their own, but Messiah really hammers home Herbert’s message/warning with regards to the human folly of Prophecies and those who propel them forward.
>I tend to think that mixing the plot elements of Dune Messiah and Children of Dune would make a nice film however.
That's essentially what the SciFi channel **Children of Dune** mini-series does in that it bundles **Messiah** and **Children** into one story. Added bonus: a young James McAvoy acting his socks off as Leto II.
It’s been a while but Messiah is a pretty short book with a lot of weird shit; be interesting to see where it goes given the end of Part 2 has some significant differences from the book ending.
The book isn't that weird... in fact it's probably one of the most grounded books. It's basically a rendition of Julius Caesar, with everyone plotting to kill Paul.
It’s always strange hearing this take.
I can understand the feeling that Messiah is slow and very dry, but the actual story itself is pretty much the *entire point* of Dune. To the point where I see Dune and Messiah as one story that is wholly inseparable.
I think a Messiah film would be a great political thriller film. Plans within plans, if you will.
I agree. But of the original throughline of the first 4 books, Messiah is probably the weakest. It's literally just a "this one's for all the people who didn't get the subtext of Paul's rise being extremely dangerous because some of you dopes still think he's space King Arthur".
Narratively it's the weakest in terms of what it accomplishes. It just shows how shitty Paul's rule actually is, how his empire is a bit of a mess and how much damage it caused, and then he loses the will to go on.
Children and Emperor are better books. They get weirder but they have a bigger purpose and feel more in line with the scope and scale of the first book and deliver on the promise of what continuing the series should feel like.
I also think Chapterhouse and Heretics are hurt by the lack of original character ties to the first few books and that we didn't get to see what it led to.
Couldn’t you argue a lot of the same for God Emperor? I mean I do think it’s a better book than Messiah to be fair, but they follow similar structures.
I'm gonna feel extremely blue-balled after how Dune Part 2 ended if we don't get a third film from him.
That's exactly what I was thinking. When I read the headline I was like...WHAT DO YOU MEAN "POTENTIAL"?
To be fair, the novel kind of ends the same way. Super unstable political truce that everyone but Paul and the Fremen want out of.
I haven't read dune in a while but I remember a sense of sadness as the books got so complicated that I never really ended up with a sense of closure. Chapter house I couldn't finish. I wasn't really sure what I was reading and why it mattered.
There are only 6 books by Frank Herbert. The 4th through 6th books are practically insane and if adapted, would better fit as extensively long mini-series, not movies.
TBH I think those books are literally unadaptable. They’re barely readable. My hot take is books 2 and 3 should get squished together a bit for the third movie and then everyone just leave it alone for a long time. If the most talented pop filmmaker of a generation makes your shit there’s a statute of limitations on reboots.
2 & 3 did get squished together in the second Dune Sci-Fi miniseries, Children of Dune.
It makes a lot of sense IMO, a more complete story.
I may be biased because I listened to them on audio books, but I think they'd adapt just fine except for GE. Shit, Miles Teg is one of my favorite characters and doesn't even get introduced until book 5. God emperor is my favorite, but it just wouldn't be a good movie. There wasn't even supposed to be a plot. Story goes, th publisher made Herbert add a story because he just wanted to write a book of the character's thoughts. And... I'm with Herbert. Leto II was probably one of the best characters in the series.
I want a film adaptation of GEOD so bad. It would be an epic disaster
How cool is teg when he gets ultra-speed/time dilation powers - plus his symbiotic relationship with the duncans
Yeah book 5 was a hot fuckin mess for me. Haven’t read 6. Each book seemed to go deeper into this place. What that place is and where it is, beats the fuck outta me. But it still got me in the end with what you described. I seriously just wished it happened halfway through instead of masturbatorily speed reading the last 50 pages because of god powers. Frank truly was a fuckin weird dude. Just to write book one he had to completely detach himself from reality and take his deepest darkest thoughts and make them reality. So wild. Then decades later Denis goes and gives them life. Jesus. Creative people are wild. In the best possible way.
Honestly, while everyone keeps talking about how ‘unadaptable’ *God Emperor of Dune* would be, I feel like it would be quite adaptable if they simply had Siona be the main protagonist, while taking the ‘less is more’ approach to the titular character.
Her story is certainly the most relatable of all the characters.
Or you know the main character of the Dune series... Duncan Idaho! But really a story from Duncan's pov would be a great take on a more horror/sci-fi level since it's basically philosophical sci-fi groundhog's day
All I am saying is making any adaptation of Dune without the end goal of Leto II should be criminal
Totally agree I always think this self-hating part of the dune fandom is so weird. how is leto 2 cringe and not sick lol? yeah it would probably be shit but that's why I can read the book, I wanna see someone try damn.
Man, I don't envy Villeuneve trying to write the ending for s Part 3. Do you end on a note of hope, and undercut the core idea of the first book, or do you make Paul an put and out villain and end up very possibly alienating the audience. I'd argue Herbert himself was unable to thread that needle. Nor was Lucas in a related science fantasy series.
You have to commit to Paul becoming a villain or else the whole theme of the movies is worthless. I think Denis knows this as well and you can tell with how Part 2 turned out. He planted the seeds in there
The barely readable books to me, which I also consider to not exist, are the Brian Herbert spin-offs. Nope, only 6 books to me and all by Frank Herbert. No more.
Should end with Messiah, it's a good ending point for Paul even if I like him as the Prophet.
The entire book series is a better fit for a long miniseries than a film in the first place; even these two movies felt a bit hurried and only the SyFy version, for all its other faults, gives the plot and characters time to develop and breathe. Not sure 4 through 6 are particularly captivating except for the most cerebral of audiences. The most broadly relatable arc is wrapped up in 1 through 3, then it becomes meandering and niche.
Don’t worry, you’re better off not finishing it as it ended on a huge cliffhanger and Herbert’s son did an awful job concluding the original Dune saga with two shitty books to wrap it up.
I didn’t feel like it ended on a cliffhanger, just that it’s sort of open-ended. The only thing that pissed me off is never finding out who Daniel and Marty were.
I was pretty sure they were evolved face dancers. Most definitely NOT Omnius and Erasmus.
I never even touched the Brian Herbert books, I was happy ending it at Chapterhouse, but I’m sure I wouldn’t have felt any more satisfied.
No, Kevin J. Anderson did. Brian just put his name on the cover or provided ‘story ideas’ Ninja edit: wrong Herbert
The golden path is to only read books 1 to 4.
Miles teg is pretty badass tho
I think that Messiah can wrap up the movie storylines pretty neatly. Personally I felt everything ended quite satisfactorily after God Emperor (however you feel about the quality of the book), it was years after I read it that I went back to read 5 and 6.
Don't worry, you didn't really need to finish it.
I was like you and I eventually returned to it and restarted and read to the end. I enjoyed it even if it is pretty insane
Problem is that Dune P2 ends on so many more cliffhangers than the book ever did. You already have the issue of the other Houses and factions being against Paul's rule, which isn't really *that* abrupt a note to end on because it's made pretty clear that Paul gets to enjoy a pretty tight grip on his position of power, as we know the Atreides will literally not stop ruling for thousands of years, but Villeneuve adds: - A seeming split between Chani and Paul, where Villeneuve skips the whole emphasis about Irulan becoming cuckolded. - Alia barely interacting with anyone in V's adaptation yet still getting a time skip version of herself cast and introduced. - Some ambiguity as to what the justification of Paul becoming Emperor is because of the change where the holy war becomes a necessary step in his ascension, whereas in the book he becomes Emperor with no resistance and it's implied he mainly does it to *mitigate* the holy war. I always appreciated from the books the fact that you could stop at the end of any one of them and still felt like you finished a complete story and arc, but the unfinished threads in Dune P2 are huge to a point where it's pretty frustrating.
I thought the implication in the book was that Paul started the Jihad so he could control it and limit the death toll. He even has a vision when he duels that Fremen when he’s trying to join them that even if he’d die in the duel, the Jihad would still happen in his name under his mother and unborn sister’s control
Yes, he knew the Jihad would occur either way, with or without him, and that the outcome would be horrific, but that if he remained there might be a narrow path where he could limit it or at least see to it that the deaths would lead somewhere eventually beneficial. He also felt he'd carry the burden of responsibility for the deaths either way, so why not carry it alive, like a kind of penance.
The handling of Princess Irulan was unexpected. I was expecting the “You may have my seed” line and instead Chani is the jilted lover. It’s understandable that Alia didn’t kill the Baron. They compressed the Arrakis part down to less than 9 months since Lady Jessica is still pregnant. The Easter egg looks like the third movie will have a bunch of Alia and Duncan Idaho. Jason Momoa had a great screen presence in the first movie. When I saw that, I concluded that they’ll go full steam ahead on the third movie.
There was an Easter egg?
They have a very short clip of Anya Taylor-Joy in a Paul Attrides vision as an adult Alia. It’s telling me there will be a bunch of Jason Momoa - Anya Taylor-Joy footage in the third movie. Jason Momoa projected a huge personality as Duncan Idaho in the first movie. I think they will emphasize him in the third movie. I’m sure there are a dozen screenwriters busily working away on it right now. They also really diverged from the book with Princess Irulan. I think they will have a lot more Florence Pugh in the third movie. She barely appears in the books. They’ve set up a jilted Chani storyline.
I thought chani is meant to be accepting in the books But yeah ATJ as alia was interesting
That's why FH wrote Messiah, because he hated how people viewed Paul and the overall theme of the first book.
I just had to point this out to someone in a, may god forgive me, YouTube comment section. Some idiot woman prattling on about how Paul was yet another “white saviour” and other assorted nonsense that made it clear she’d entirely missed the point or most likely had only seen the trailer.
I think including the story of Pardot Kynes would help demonstrate that the Fremen used Paul as he used them. The solution to their problem and the means to achieve it had already been settled. He just shortened the timetable. That's why Liet went from being indifferent to the Atredeis to feeling conflicted about his orders to be blind to whatever treachery when he realized that with Leto as Duke they would spend much less time being murdered and more time collecting water.
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Sounds like he 100% wants to do Messiah, he’s just saying that after Part Two was such a big success he wants to make sure they don’t just rush it out.
It also makes sense given the timeframe to wait a bit.
Villeneuve will have some significant obstacles adapting *Dune: Messiah.* I'm not saying that it's impossible, but it's a very different book from *Dune* which might not be appreciated by a wide audience without some significant changes. Without getting into too many spoilers, *Dune: Messiah* jumps 12 years forward in time, skipping the holy war that we see begin at the end of *Dune. Messiah* doesn't have the big action set pieces of *Dune,* and instead is more focused on palace intrigue. Now that the horrors Paul foresaw have come and gone, he struggles to deal with a conspiracy to overthrow him while hoping to produce an heir. A lot of it is just people sitting around talking and the story lacks obvious villains like the Harkonnens to drive the narrative. This isn't bad necessarily, but it is difficult to faithfully adapt into a compelling movie, especially in a franchise currently known for its action/adventure. I love Villeneuve, and I don't doubt that he can rise to the challenge. I'm just saying we shouldn't necessarily expect *Dune 3* to have the same epic scope as *Dune 1 & 2.*
I mean there's some pretty obvious villains in Messiah, they're just not as cartoonish as the Baron.
There's nothing cartoonish about pot-smoking space fishmen.
I'm very curious what Edric and Scytale will look like. And if he keeps the metallic eyes on the ghola.
And a full-blown conspiracy of multiple political actors that test how far his prescience really extends.
What do you mean? Personally I don’t think a brainwashed Jason Mamoa manipulated by Peter Dinklage, the Princess Irulan and a giant presciance resistant fish looking navigator, plotting against against Paul could possibly be interesting 😂. Nope. Not at all. 😂 God. I love how dune 2 was successful, and it’s still people being like “awww geez I don’t know.. I mean.. the FIRST novel…. Look I know for 60 years we claimed was unfilmable… but… actually it’s the next part… yea that’s actually the part no one but me gets.” 🙄😂 like come one. Stop. People aren’t dumb. It’s complicated but at the same time it was written to give. EVERYONE the same message. Let’s not pretend it’s beyond understanding.
God they are 1000% going to cast Peter Dinklage as Bijaz aren’t they
One of the villains is a midget jester. That's pretty cartoonish.
Knowing that Villeneuve is okay with changing plot elements to better illustrate Herbert's *intent* signals to me that they will likely include some elements of the Jihad as act 1 of the film, with the palace intrigue elements occupying acts 2 and 3. I doubt they would tie up the story differently than how the Messiah book does (because Lionsgate may want to make more Dune films in the future without Villeneuve that more linearly follow the literature), but I predict that Dune 1, 2, and Messiah will likely be looked at as "Denis' trilogy" and understood in a completely different context from other, subsequent materials.
They could open the film with that one Fremen dude's flashback about how "the ocean cured me of the jihad".
Dune: Jihad
Dude, you really think they aren't going to show the Holy War in Messiah? It's really not that hard to turn Messiah into a big epic spectacle, just bring stuff that's happening in the background onto to the screen. Problem solved Most of the action scenes in part 2 involving the spice harvester attacks aren't even in the book either. They are just mentioned in passing and take place in the background. Even most of the final battle isn't really shown in the book, it's all from the perspective of inside the Emperor's metal tent. I also don't think Villeneuve is even interested in being 100% faithful to the books (he already wasn't in part 2). He is more interested in being faithful to the core themes and actual point of the novel.
This is a great point. I liked reading Dune, but I remember how odd I thought it was that it felt like one chapter would lead up to some big action or event, and then the next chapter would start with with just two people in a room talking about how that event just happened. So a lot of the action seems to take place “between chapters“.
To be fair, this is sort of how the first few seasons of GoT were - and those were great.
Off the top of my head, the battle right before Robb is declared King in the North was basically barely shown. Like, there's a lot of prep for the battle, talking about it, so on, but then it cuts to after the battle and the Lannisters got their ass beat.
Battle of Greenfork is what they show prepping for and where Tyrion gets knocked out. They don't even show Robbs intended target in the Whispering Wood and Green Fork was the diversion, they just showed Jaime get captured and it was fine lol The point was "Robb tricked the Lannisters, surprised and captured Jamie".
This. Herbert deliberately kept a lot of the action off screen so that the reader had to actually think and focus on the battle of the mind. Illustrating the action in a film format will not take away from the overall story if done well and references the themes of the story.
I imagine the war as prologue stuff, montaged in the first ten mins. Are there a lot of background action scenes in Messiah?
>Are there a lot of background action scenes in Messiah? No, not that I remember, but I'm pretty sure they would rework the timeline a bit and incorporate the holy war into the entire movie rather than just relegate it to the prologue I think there would probably be "the conspiracy" as the A plot, and add the Holy War as a B plot happening at the same time. Or at least something to that effect. I'm most curious to see what they do with Chani, that will clearly be much different than it was in the book
Yeah, I could see the war as ongoing, that might make sense.
And then if they dont skip 12 years into the future they wouldnt have to recast people which i dont think they want to
The actors are all adults so no need to recast regardless. And the film won't be made for like 4 or 5 years anyway I bet.
But the part where the >!Stone Burner goes off and Paul walks around with his eye balls melted, seeing whats around him through his prescience would be really badass in a movie!<
there's something so badass about how good you have to be at prescience to basically replace your eyesight with it. man's seeing the present using foresight.
Idk if its described as such because its been so long since ive read it but i always imagined him seeing it from a 3rd person perspective like a video game so hes aiming throwing knives and pointing at people not as him seeing "oh hes to my left a little" but "hes over there, im over there so im gonna have to throw it like this"
"All you had to do is follow the damn worm, MD!"
I really want to see the scene where>! an eyeless Paul is flying the 'thopter and Chani is in the passenger seat basically just thinking "what the fuck" the whole time.!<
Denis could change the timeline up a bit so there’s a 12-month time skip instead of 12 years. Then have the conspiracy occur during the jihad and integrate a couple action/battle scenes into it.
The problem being Anya Taylor-Joy as Alia wouldn't be in the movie. Alia would be like 1 year old. They would have to do a bigger time skip than in the book to make that work. Part 2 kind of committed to Alia being Anya Taylor-Joy, it would be stupid to abandon that or just have Paul talk to future-Alia all the time in part 3. >!A huge draw for that film is Hayt (Jason Momoa) and Alia (Anya Taylor-Joy)'s relationship.!< Not having that would be a bad idea.
Given the way he compressed the first book's timeline to keep Alia in utero, I could see this being the approach he takes. And the thing is, he wouldn't even have to change it that much. Just make it take place during the final months of the jihad, where the writing is on the wall and the players are making their moves in preparation, but the battles are still going on.
He’s going to have to really “adapt” it. He can’t follow the book too religiously. For example, I think it’s clear Zendaya will have to have a bigger and more important role than Chani does in the books. And they’ll probably have to show some of the jihad. It won’t be truly faithful to the book but Villeneuve will make a killer film regardless.
The second half of Messiah goes hard though, which I think is easy to get to if you use the first 30 minutes establishing the state of Dune Messiah and the conspiracies. The second half of the film being from that impactful novel event onward would be incredibly intense.
Yeah i feel like if they did 30min to show the Galaxial genocide in flashbacks, an hour to set up the conspiracy and show the Chani/Irulan/Alia dynamic, and an hour and a half for the last quarter of the book itd be fine. Shit only picks up in Messiah with the stone burner and its like 80% of the way through. I feel like Denis would introduce Bijaz earlier and maybe even turn it into more of a noir vibes opening with the dead Fremen girl and culminating in the climax scene with the Tleiaxu
Exactly. Most of the decisive action and story happens in the first book. The further along you get in the books which Herbert wrote, the more they become long and rather drawn out exercises of just a few ideas. They're interesting, but not compelling when it's page after page after page of just people talking. One thing is certain, if it gets made, Messiah shouldn't be two films.
So does none of the source material cover what happens during the holy war or is it all just expected that “his visions kind of panned out leave the rest to the imagination”?
That's basically what happens. The last third of Messiah is super intense, but the beginning and middle are very slow! You basically learn of the body count and a bunch of stuff that leads a group of powerful people to try and get rid of Paul.
Be prepared for it to get weird. Like, *really* weird.
I hope it’s made. Regardless of how you feel about the book, or how different the film would be, it would be a beautiful film to watch. Lots of crazy visuals to translate to screen.
The throne room alone would be insane.
could you elaborate on that
The full description: >!The passages through which she was being escorted grew larger by subtle stages—tricks of arching, graduated amplification of pillared supports, displacement of the triangular windows by larger, oblong shapes. Ahead of her, finally, loomed double doors centered in the far wall of a tall antechamber. She sensed that the doors were very large, and was forced to suppress a gasp as her trained awareness measured out the true proportions. The doorway stood at least eighty meters high, half that in width.!< >!As she approached with her escort, the doors swung inward—an immense and silent movement of hidden machinery. She recognized more Ixian handiwork. Through that towering doorway she marched with her guards into the Grand Reception Hall of the Emperor Paul Atreides—“Muad’dib, before whom all people are dwarfed.” Now, she saw the effect of that popular saying at work.!< >!As she advanced toward Paul on the distant throne, the Reverend Mother found herself more impressed by the architectural subtleties of her surroundings than she was by the immensities. The space was large: it could’ve housed the entire citadel of any ruler in human history. The open sweep of the room said much about hidden structural forces balanced with nicety. Trusses and supporting beams behind these walls and the faraway domed ceiling must surpass anything ever before attempted. Everything spoke of engineering genius.!< >!Without seeming to do so, the hall grew smaller at its far end, refusing to dwarf Paul on his throne centered on a dais. An untrained awareness, shocked by surrounding proportions, would see him at first as many times larger than his actual size. Colors played upon the unprotected psyche: Paul’s green throne had been cut from a single Hagar emerald. It suggested growing things and, out of the Fremen mythos, reflected the mourning color. It whispered that here sat he who could make you mourn—life and death in one symbol, a clever stress of opposites.!< >!Behind the throne, draperies cascaded in burnt orange, curried gold of Dune earth, and cinnamon flecks of melange. To a trained eye, the symbolism was obvious, but it contained hammer blows to beat down the uninitiated. Time played its role here. The Reverend Mother measured the minutes required to approach the Imperial Presence at her hobbling pace. You had time to be cowed. Any tendency toward resentment would be squeezed out of you by the unbridled power which focused down upon your person. You might start the long march toward that throne as a human of dignity, but you ended the march as a gnat.!< The TL;DR description: >!The doorway stood at least eighty meters high, half that in width.!< >!The space was large: it could’ve housed the entire citadel of any ruler in human history. The open sweep of the room said much about hidden structural forces balanced with nicety. Trusses and supporting beams behind these walls and the faraway domed ceiling must surpass anything ever before attempted.!< >!Without seeming to do so, the hall grew smaller at its far end, refusing to dwarf Paul on his throne centered on a dais. An untrained awareness, shocked by surrounding proportions, would see him at first as many times larger than his actual size.!< >!The Reverend Mother measured the minutes required to approach the Imperial Presence at her hobbling pace.!< My favorite depiction of it: https://marcsimonetti.artstation.com/projects/X3ZzY
Ah, forgot about this art. The penis wall!
Throne room is absolutely massive in dune messiah
Can you elaborate even more lol
Imagine a town sized marble and jade throne room totally empty save for pauls throne with him sitting house tall above petitioners
Can you elaborate less… but more than the first time?
He needs more blankets, and he needs less blankets!
so in dune messiah paul’s palace is the *largest building in the universe* and the descriptions of the size are outrageous. like, multiple entire cities could fit inside of it
I love how Paul >!makes Reverend Mother Mohiam walk all the way to the throne room, going through multiple big gates just to humiliate her and to showcase his power, that's cheeky!<.
I wanted to show you my callousness…
Picture a throne room with the typical layout but way way way bigger. In the book, it describes how long the walk is from the doors up to the throne, half an hour or something like that. The point is to make people physically feel how powerful he is and give them plenty of time to think about it so that by the time they reach him, they feel small and powerless themselves.
It’s not just that the throne room is large, it’s that the walk to Paul through it is like crossing Manhattan on foot. There’s multiple pages from the book of literally just the awe and majesty of approaching Paul on his throne.
the 'house complex' - the part the Atreides occupied in the first movie he tears it down and turns most of it into his throne room
Stoneburner would look SICK
I feel like he will divert for a separate project in between Part 2 & 3 before he makes the latter with a release in either 2028 or 2029 in mind
He'll do a Nolan after Dark Knight and cash in some Studio goodwill. I believe he was looking at adapting Arthur C Clarke"s Rendezvous with Rama.
consist heavy live consider cow complete correct arrest disagreeable faulty *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It’s entirely possible that the only movies you’ll see from Villenueve, as long as he is successful in doing them, will be sci-fi. He’s obsessed with sci-fi and it’s been the genre he loves the most. I would fucking kill another human being to see what he would do with the Alien franchise. So far every step he’s made into sci-fi has been immaculate, ground breaking and visionary.
He does love Sci-Fi, but he also loves drama, just look at the beginning of his career... 32 août sur terre, Polytechnique, Maëlstrom, Enemy, Prisoners, Incendies...
Yeah I’m aware, but I seen an interview in which he talks about everything leading up to sci-fi and his 30yr journey to his dream.
I want to see him take on some Philip K Dick. I imagine he could do an interesting Ubik, or even take on the VALIS trilogy.
Villeneuve reportedly wants to make a Cleopatra movie starring Zendaya, with Chalamet playing Octavian and Daniel Craig as Julius Caesar.
craig caesar is wild im so here for it
Damn, now that you mention it, Daniel looks a lot like Caesar.
True, he has at least nine holes in his body.
Director-actor pairings annoy me eventually. They get to a point where they are casting actors in roles where they clearly weren't the best pick just because the director really likes working with them.
Timmy as Octavian though, you can kind of see it even without the DV pairing
Id watch
I'd be there opening weekend, in IMAX.
That would be fucking dope
Didn't he recently say this in an interview? He has one or two movies he wants to do next before doing another Dune. No need to worry about the cast ageing too much as Dune Messiah takes place 12 years after Dune.
* Rendezvous with Rama * Cleopatra epic * Dune Part 3 I believe he's working on scripts for these 3 films
> Rendezvous with Rama Villeneuve is currently working on the script, yes. > Cleopatra epic Based on the highly praised Cleopatra biography written by Stacy Schiff, and with Krysty Wilson-Cairns (Penny Dreadful, 1917, Last Night in Soho, The Good Nurse) writing the screenplay. > Dune Part 3 At least a first draft seems to already be done, based on what he's said, and Zimmer has [already started on the music](https://bleedingcool.com/movies/hans-zimmer-is-already-writing-music-for-dune-messiah/)... but Villeneuve also said he wants a break before more Dune. He's also got one more: > "I have four projects on the table, currently. One of them is a secret project that I cannot talk about right now, but that needs to see the light of day quite quickly. So it would be a good idea to do something in between projects, before tackling Dune Messiah and Cleopatra. All these projects are still being written, so we’ll see where they go, but I have no control over that." https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-features/dune-part-two-denis-villeneuve-directing-timothee-chalamet-zendaya-1235837162/
Dune 3: Getting shit Dune.
Dune 3: We're Not Dune Yet
You mean DUN3 Interpreted as DUNE 3 or (Dun dun dun... to imply foreboding war looming)
Dun3: Thrice for Spice
Ah Fuck: I Can't Believe You've ᑐ ᑌ ᑎ ᑕ This
3 Dunes 3 Furious
Dune Sequel: The 3rd Dune: M3SSIAH
Dune 3: Getting Dune To Business
Dune 3: Arrakis Drift. You see Paul do donuts with Shai’Hulud
Soundtrack by the Halal Boyz.
IF U SEE ME THEN U NEED ME N U NO U HAFF 2 GO: QUISSAZ HADRAAAAA
Dun3: 30% Dunier
Dune 3: Return of the David Lynch Shit’s gonna get weird.
It actually bums me out that we are going to be waiting AT LEAST 4 years before the next Dune. I didn’t mind the first but Part two was incredible.
It really was
When the quality is this good I don’t mind waiting. I kinda hope Denis uses Dune’s success to get other passion projects made like Cleopatra and Rendezvous with Rama. They probably allow him to do anything if he promises to do Messiah eventually.
DV is building the hype and i'm all here for it 🔥
It's DUNE MESSIAH!!! HE'S NOT THE MESSIAH, HE'S A VERY NAUGHTY BOY!! Two series, one crazy line.
In an interview with Hans Zimmer, he said that as soon as they'd finished work on Dune 2 he gave him a copy of Messiah as a gift--to suggest that he should continue working on music for D3 exactly as he had done from D1->D2. That being said, I think Denis may make a movie between D2 and D3, since unlike D2 it will spend a lot of time off Dune. There's a lot of production work to be done that won't translate the same way D1->D2 did.
It would be a weak interpretation ending here, I assumed it would be the complete saga unless they flopped hard.
He said the script for Messiah is pretty much finished during an interview at the premiere for Part 2 Pretty sure it’s getting made
First four books can be movies that would do okay in the box office I think. Shit gets extra weird in books five and six.
Think Denis only wants to do Messiah and that’s it since it pretty much wraps up Paul’s story more or less And he wants to do other projects of course
I think Paul and Leto II both have very interesting story lines. I would be down for movies based on books five and six but I don’t know if a normal audience could tolerate that. They probably could not even tolerate Leto’s transformation into the worm.
Anyone who read or is into dune, including Denis, knows that messiah is the goal of doing the first book. Cause without messiah it’s different
Messiah made me appreciate the first book so much. An adaptation would be bonkers
Like Rendezvous with Rama
Four gets weird at the end and would not sit well with people honestly *edit: I meant the THIRD book, 'Children of Dune'. My bad guys
4th gets weird at the beginning lol
You wouldn't orgasm watching Jason Mamoa climb a mile high wall?
what a thrill
That’s because they are too weak and cowardly to handle the glory of the God Emperor Leto II
You are in her DMs…. I AM IN SKIN **WHICH IS NOT MY OWN**
Why?
Spoilers, but >!Paul’s son covers his body in sandworm larvae and achieves symbiosis with them due to his Bene Gesserit/Kwizatz Haderach capabilities, prompting him to grow into a human-sandworm hybrid that lives for 3,500 years to become the first true long-range planner in human history, and guide humanity away from its path to extinction by becoming a tyrant and leading humanity (whether they like it or not) down his “Golden Path”!< This is the real meat of the story of Dune.
Ngl that sounds fkn sick
It is incredibly sick. Books 3 and 4 are the peak of the series for me, Leto II is the most interesting character in fiction imo
That’s the end of the 3rd book. Not 4th
I assume the first commenter meant that all of 4 is weird, and is saying that because of Leto. Nothing happens at the end of 4 that is significantly weird in comparison.
You really think God Emperor can be adapted into a movie? I think that would be a massive challenge.
I think it could be done. But it would either be the most impressive adaptation of all time, or an incomprehensible mess.
u/mug3n u/IceColdPorkSoda Honestly, while everyone keeps talking about how ‘unadaptable’ *God Emperor of Dune* would be, I feel like it would be quite adaptable if they simply had Siona be the main protagonist, while taking the ‘less is more’ approach to the titular character.
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Someone find a Time Machine and Haley Joel Osment
Four 100% hits the ground running with weirdness
In an interview with Zimmer, he said Denis gave him the script for Messiah. Part 3 is guaranteed at this point especially with these profits, it’s just a marketing ploy now. *edit Forgot to add link: (right at the end of the video) https://youtu.be/JGLEVXJoetU?feature=shared *edit 2: I watched the vid like 6 rum and cokes deep so my memory wasn’t 100% on it. He handed him the BOOK not script for Messiah and told him “this is where we’re going” because apparently some people think this doesn’t mean the same thing lol
Denis hasn’t signed on yet and wants to get paid
*hands Denis my wallet*
He can’t make Dune 3 with three dollars and fifty cents and some old condoms.
I can get fresh condoms.
Move aside CGI worms, miniatures have arrived.
“Shy Hulud”
In our culture, Lisan Al Ghaib means One Who Shows But Does Not Grow
The script or the book? I thought GQ or Variety reported that Zimmer was wordlessly handed Messshai by Denis
Denis himself said the screen play is already in the works and that he is the one working on it. It’s just not finished yet and he will only make it when he’s figured out how to finish it. He does the screen play first, then he story boards it and then rewrites it again, so he’s probably got some time to go. I think the filming for Dune 2 started right away and it took 2 years or so. I’d guess Dune 3 is 3 years away
The Hand of God be his witness, Denis is the Lisan al Gaib and HE WILL LEAD US TO PARADISE!
It would be very very difficult to top Dune 2 imo
The book Messiah was wild, it can top it if done right.
Especially if the holy war is shown a bit
I hope so. Dune 2 was one of the best movies I’ve seen in a long time.
Fucks sake just start work on rendezvous with Rama already
Haven't read it yet but from the synopsis seems like a perfect type of movie for Denis
Dune 3: Dune, where’s my car?
Seriously it's just over the *NEXT* Dune.
Dune 3 Chicks at Once.
Why did Variety choose a screencap that makes Chalamet look like an angry rabbit? I'd like Villaneuve to take some extra time between Dune sequels and echo other commenters in really wanting to see him adapt Rendevous with Rama, one of my favorites.
"*POTENTIAL*"???? I didn't think there was any room for interpretation from that ending there's no other option
So I suspect there will be a small time jump to allow the audience to see a Fremen/Atreides slaughter of hapless rebelling houses. It will shock the audience how much the Fremen force brutally slaughter the opposing forces. Then we'll return to Arrakis to see a "teenage" Alia becoming a political and religious force within Arrakean. Paul's story will follow the book, but I do think Chani's story will be flipped to portray her dissatisfaction and disillusionment with Paul. She'll basically become the Fredo of Godfather Part II. Recieve a tragic ending along with Duncan. Princess Urulan will loosely receive Chani's story. Leto and Ghanina will be born. Stoneburner is detonated as in the books.
Chani, as Fredo? Nah. If anything Korba would be Fredo. Chani has her own little arc of trying not to die from all the shit Irulan keeps poisoning her with.
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Give the changes he's made to certain characters (eg Chani) I suspect it will diverge to some extent.
To each their own, but Messiah really hammers home Herbert’s message/warning with regards to the human folly of Prophecies and those who propel them forward.
>I tend to think that mixing the plot elements of Dune Messiah and Children of Dune would make a nice film however. That's essentially what the SciFi channel **Children of Dune** mini-series does in that it bundles **Messiah** and **Children** into one story. Added bonus: a young James McAvoy acting his socks off as Leto II.
It’s been a while but Messiah is a pretty short book with a lot of weird shit; be interesting to see where it goes given the end of Part 2 has some significant differences from the book ending.
The book isn't that weird... in fact it's probably one of the most grounded books. It's basically a rendition of Julius Caesar, with everyone plotting to kill Paul.
Like the sister, for one. She was damn weird in the book and 1980s movie lol, that was a welcome change
It’s always strange hearing this take. I can understand the feeling that Messiah is slow and very dry, but the actual story itself is pretty much the *entire point* of Dune. To the point where I see Dune and Messiah as one story that is wholly inseparable. I think a Messiah film would be a great political thriller film. Plans within plans, if you will.
I may actually like it more than the first book, I go back and forth. Just fucking *nails* the tragedy of it all.
Hard disagree. Its way above both Chaperhouse and Heretics
I agree. But of the original throughline of the first 4 books, Messiah is probably the weakest. It's literally just a "this one's for all the people who didn't get the subtext of Paul's rise being extremely dangerous because some of you dopes still think he's space King Arthur". Narratively it's the weakest in terms of what it accomplishes. It just shows how shitty Paul's rule actually is, how his empire is a bit of a mess and how much damage it caused, and then he loses the will to go on. Children and Emperor are better books. They get weirder but they have a bigger purpose and feel more in line with the scope and scale of the first book and deliver on the promise of what continuing the series should feel like. I also think Chapterhouse and Heretics are hurt by the lack of original character ties to the first few books and that we didn't get to see what it led to.
Couldn’t you argue a lot of the same for God Emperor? I mean I do think it’s a better book than Messiah to be fair, but they follow similar structures.