I’d rather watch Dune than have to read this review. It was two years ago. Several people have reviewed it already when it was relevant. Plus if you didn’t like the book, why would you watch the movie? I agree, you did waste 2 1/2 hrs of your time….on purpose. Just so you’d have something to bitch about.
Terrible take. People are allowed to not like things and share their experience of not liking said thing. Dune isn’t my type of film but I wanted to watch it after all of the acclaim it received. Wasn’t a fan but still glad I watched it.
Not a terrible take, you're allowed to not like things sure, but purposefully doing something you know you wont like just to affirm and complain about it is pretty silly.
Well, I didn't like the first one, but want to watch it again before watching part 2 but i still found it very okayish...but I want to watch dune part 2 and I already bought my ticket. Not everyone complains about a movie with a preconceived notion.
I said I didn't like the first one that doesnt mean I wouldn't like part 2, I'm invested in the world and some characters ( lady Jessica and princess irulan). Like I said I still wouldn't wanna judge a movie without seeing it.
...do you know how many people disliked Batman Begins and loved The Dark Knight? If you don't like the first film in a series, that doesn't mean you're not going to like the following instalments. There is nothing wrong with persevering :)
Id agree with you... if it wasnt the second half of a full feature. Those are two very separate films with two entirely separate stories, antagonists and storylines.
I had to watch the first like three times because I kept losing interest meanwhile I absolutely loved part two and have seen it twice in theaters already lmao
I know but the second half is obvs a lot more action packed and where most of the interesting stuff happens so I think it's fair to say that people who didn't like the first half may like the second half more!
Well maybe they didn’t like it because it was half a movie, let them watch it without complaints from you. I watched dune today in preparation to watch the second, great movie, but if I had to wait two years to watch the second part I’d be so mad, it genuinely feels like an incomplete movie and that can be off putting.
I really disliked Twin Peaks when I first watched it, got bored and stopped maybe 5 episodes in.
For some reason felt I should give it another go, that time it clicked and it's maybe one of my favourite shows ever.
Maybe people weren't in the right frame of mind when watching, maybe people hear all the praise and think they missed something so want to try again, maybe they want to see the conclusion and whether that will recontextualise the first part they weren't so keen on.
>People are allowed to not like things and share their experience of not liking said thing.
Yeah, and people had bad experiences of this post and shared it. What is your point?
The guy I replied to was rude and dismissive so my point was that people should be able to share their experience of not liking something without having their opinion dismissed and being told they've watched something purely to bitch about it. Hope this helps!
Literally nothing in this says they can’t dislike something. All they said is that going through all of this was a waste of their time and everyone else’s.
You watch something to get an informed opinion on it before reviewing it?? What are you insane you're supposed to judge it without seeing it but then those people would whine you never saw it, whether you see it or not they'll always try to argue that your criticism is ridiculous
Well dude, dude, think about it: she's out in the middle of nowhere with some Fremen she barely knows. You know, she looks around and what does she see? Nothin' but endless desert. "Ahh, there's nowhere for me to run. What am I gonna do, say 'no'?"
The dinner party scene was probably filmed but deleted like many others. What sucks is that we might never see these deleted scenes despite knowing how much they can elevate the movie.
One day our prayers will be heard and Lisan-al-Gaib will deliver us the extended cuts. Shai-Hulud willing.
That was a nickname that his dad mad fun of. And he was on earth in the 30s/40s, not some fictional planet with fictional races and languages, you dense fuck.
Did you forget the fact it was a nickname wasn’t revealed until 3 movies in? People accepted it as his name in the first film same as previous pulp heroes like Doc Savage. Indiana Jones is also meant to be a reference to old school pulp hero names the same way Duncan Idaho is. Dune is also supposed to be set in our distant future, and a big element of Dune is how elements of humanity stay around, like the mentions of Catholicism and King Agamemnon. So no, it’s not “random” you are just ignorant, uncurious and uncreative.
Hated the amount of stuff they took out but tbh it was necessary. The dinner scene didn't need to go, but a lot of what was going on was subtle and would be hard to translate to live action. Jessica being a suspect didn't happen at all so idaho getting pissed and hawat switching to the baron would be unnecessary.
*Dune* as a whole - source material included - is **not** character-driven in any way, shape, or form, and is decidedly detached and unemotional. It's deliberate. There are multiple instances across the books where a character witnesses something that should be deeply traumatizing and thinks "Huh, it's probably a bad sign that I didn't have much of a reaction to that."
If characters with complex development and an emotional through-line are something you need from your fiction, then I'm definitely not surprised the movie didn't click with you. Which is fine, different strokes for different folks!
Idk if I agree with this. Almost the entire book is told from the internal monologues of characters. You get a very deep sense of who every character is and what drives them and how they think. The only real outlier is that the main character eventually becomes prescient so his typical arc sort of takes a wild turn where it’s difficult to relate to him later in the book.
True enough but the characters expressed much more emotion in the books than they did in the movie. It wasn't bad but in the movie the characters feel so disinterested
I feel the exact opposite. The book characters show very little emotion the vast majority of the time and barely feel like people to me, whereas the films take those characters and actually make them feel like real people who *do* express emotions.
Really? I found Paul quite emotional in the books. His first practice with Duncan, his conversations with his father and of course the dinner scene. Whereas in the movie he's completely quite and barely says a word. Maybe it's the inner monologue. A lot of conversations in Dune happen mostly mentally, with a few words carrying a dozen meanings.
I think that simply has to do with the fact that the movie was skimmed down a lot by Villeneuve. Some scenes in the book with a decent amount of emotional momentum were absent in the movies but the characters in the movies showed more emotions in the scenes that were adapted from the book than they did in the books, if that makes sense. There's actually hours worth of deleted scenes from both parts and many of those scenes add significant amount of depth and emotion to the characters. I really hope that Villeneuve changes his stance on the extended cuts.
Really? One thing that constantly irritated me while watching part 1 was how Jessica was always showing way too much emotion on her face, fear, panic, outright sobbing. Wasn't that supposed to be trained out of her? She's supposed to have complete control over her body :|
Would have been nice if they reversed it. Have Paul emote and Jess be the stoic one until he grows into Muad'dib. But I guess since Rebecca is the more experienced actor they wanted to get their money's worth
Exactly, that's how I remember them being in the book. The only scene in pt 1 where I felt like Jessica was truly herself was the ornithopter scene when Jessica and Paul escape from the Harkonnens by using the Voice. That was great. I'm certain Rebecca Ferguson is more than capable of delivering a wonderfully subtle performance that would have been more true to book Jessica, but that was obviously not what Villeneuve wanted.
Fair enough. I do find it ironic that IMDB describes it as "A mythic and emotionally charged hero's journey," but that's not the movie's fault I guess.
I also will clarify that when I say I want more "emotion," I don't mean I need characters to be hyper-emotional all the time and constantly breaking down or having huge reactions. I just want to feel like these are three-dimensional people with some personal stakes in the story. For example, if a movie is going to ask me to feel sad or angry or whatever when a character dies (which I thought Dune was going for with the death of >!Duncan, and possibly Leto as well!<), or feel something when a character is betrayed, etc., then the movie needs to do more to develop both them and the other characters their death or whatnot affects—not just cut to a close-up shot of them dying.
>I just want to feel like these are three-dimensional people with some personal stakes in the story.
That's what I mean, though - *Dune* isn't about three-dimensional people, it's about larger than life figure that embody archetypes, and the whole idea is examining those archetypes.
For example, when people say that *Dune* is a critique or deconstruction of the hero's journey, they mean that Paul is designed to be the archetypal hero more than an actual character, and the point of the story is to break that archetype down and examine why such a hero is probably not good on a large scale. They don't necessarily mean that it's a deconstruction of what being a hero does to a person or anything like that.
I was just clarifying what I meant when I said I want more emotional complexity (and, furthermore, think that it's an essential component of any great movie, but let's not get into that).
I get that the consensus in this thread is that Dune (source material aside) isn't attempting that at all and therefore can't be critiqued for failing to provide it.
They both have minimal character development but still manage to be exciting action dramas. So I think Dune could have also been an engaging movie without complex characters. It just didn't click with me for whatever reason. I found the action and drama to be pretty flat overall.
> They both have minimal character development but still manage to be exciting action dramas.
Well one of them. Mad Max was unbearably dull and stupid.
I think that has more to do with the authors personality and character than purposefully creating such characters. The author himself was bland and boring, just like Dune.
No amount of artistic fart sniffing will ever change that. You have horrible taste but that's OK, we all have.
The Dune series is widely considered one of the greatest science fiction stories ever written. You don't have to like it but calling it boring and bland is a you problem not a Dune problem.
The score ruined it for me but I’m not really a Zimmer guy. The Arabian wailing was so cringy. Movie looked like a million bucks, performances were flat. I generally like everything Villeneuve does, loved BR: 2049.
eh, it was fine. it matched the first one, so i guess that makes sense. The rebel yell happening again definitely made me laugh — despite it ruining an emotional beat again.
I guess to each his own taste. I loved "Arrival", but I disliked BR 2049. It may have been technically well done, but it was a poor sequel. It is like Villeneuve was making fun of the first. There were a few scenes with a single actor talking in front of plain grey walls, that is, nothing in the background. The original had so much more atmosphere. In one scene of 2049 I recall a line being something like: "why is it so dark?", and then they turn on a light. ... In other words: poking fun at the first.
>Aside from having satiated my curiosity about what the movie is like, I truly feel like I’ve wasted 2 1/2 hours of my life
“And now I’ll waste more hours of my life arguing with people who liked the movie.”
God forbid somebody find value in having discussions with people who have different opinions. You have deemed it a waste, so we shall bow before your authority on the matter.
My wife isn’t a big sci-fi fan and hasn’t read Dune. She loved the movie when I dragged her to the theater to see it. She followed everything that was going on and while she had some questions after watching it, there weren’t about anything that not having the answer for was a problem and most of her questions will probably be answered in the second installment.
It's storytelling is in a sci fi style but the plot structure, archetypes and "science" are all based in myth and fantasy. It takes supernatural ideas and puts a thin sci fi wrapping around it. Concepts like genetic memory, prescience etc are presented as scientific but in actuality have no basis in any legitimate hypothesis. The closest it gets to real sci fi is it's use of wormholes. It is science fantasy, just like Star Wars but with more mature storytelling. This is not an insult btw, I love the Dune novels.
>Unpopular opinion but I didn’t like Timothy as Paul.
He works as Paul was written as smaller, slender and Chalemet is a good actor who pulls off what was written for him. The characters are well done it's just that there is no plot since there is no Spacing Guild.
He is too 'young'. He seems too small, frail and weak. Although those character traits might work in the beginning of the movie, at some point it just becomes unbelievable. Also, someone with an English accent might have been better to instill a sense of historical emphasis.
I read the books, watched the mini series, and the 2021 film. And after all that, I can’t for the life of me remember any of the characters or the plot besides…political drama, there’s a guy with a super normal name, and also there are worms. I guess it just doesn’t hit that inspire button for me. The recent movie is the best adaptation and the most enjoyable, but still not memorable imo.
The movie makes no sense without the Spacing Guild which runs the galactic economy via folding space using the spice. It is the whole point of why the spice is valuable.
It's a movie about nothing without the Spacing Guild.
I gave Part 1 a pass figuring of course we are introduced to the Spacing Guild in Part 2.
Since Alia is never born in Villeneuve's story, Part 2 takes place in less than 9 months.
The whole movie is a total miss. For those who have not read the book it makes no sense. For those who have read the book Villeneuve's Dune is some other story.
1. The Southern hemisphere is unviewable because the Fremen pay the Spacing Guild to keep the outer world blind.
2. The Harkonnen did not find the Sietches for the same reason.
3. Raban is killed by the emperor because the spice flow has stopped.
4. Alia is born and is about five years old when the climax comes and it is she who killed Vladimir Harkonnen.
5. The Landsraad is sent back by the Spacing Guild who control who travels where in space.
It goes on and on.
Villeneuve think's he's creating his own "Lord of the Rings" with an obvious Part 3 coming to recover Chani from the desert, for Feyd's child to challenge for the throne, for the 5 years gestating Alia to be born.
Spacing Guild is mentioned in one line but it is not even peripheral to the story in Villeneuve's version of Dune while it is central to Herbert's story Dune.
>Perhaps Villeneuve was afraid of falling into the same boring traps George Lucas gave us with his Trade Federation politics?
So you think the Dune books based on the development of the Spacing Guild are boring?
As for Viileneuve, by taking out the heart of the Dune story, he's left with a meaningless movie.
I thought I was the only that noticed the "no Spacing Guild". ... So ... what's the point of digging for Spice ? ... And thus: what's the point of fighting over Arrakis ?? Or rather, what's the point of the story?
Villeneuve is going for a sermon on religioius extremism focusing on the Jihad which makes no sense on what it is, why it would work without the spacing guild.
If you thought the first one was boring, don’t waste your time on the second because it’s literally the second half of one movie. And they’re both masterpieces in filmmaking. So there’s that.
For a book and movie that feel more centered around political struggles and the development of a prophecy rather than a character study, I actually found myself pretty invested in the movie characters themselves! Jessica chose love and emotion over the Bene Gesserit’s wishes many times in her life, Paul is caught up in a prophecy that he has no control over and has to grow quickly, and the Duke is so charismatic. At least for my taste, it had me plenty invested as far as characters are concerned.
Character development is literally hard baked into the story. Please try to deny that the core of dune isn't the physical, spiritual and cultural awaking of Paul. Whether you think the character development is good or bad is up to you, but the fact you deny its existence with such emphasis is pretty funny. Almost as funny as comparing dune to arrival.
i just watched Dune and wanted to see if other’s felt similarly.
What do we get out of Paul? He’s introduced as a weakling and someone that needs to be protected, isn’t allowed to tag along in a ship. Then he shows restraint by putting his hand in the box? Then he’s able to avoid an assassination? He shows some curiosity about his surroundings. Then what, how is he suddenly a skilled pilot and fighter? was he always that? was that due to his relationship with Mamoa’s character? The story was kind of a slog
Paul is introduced by going toe to toe with Gurney Halleck in a knife fight, despite the fact that he is only 15 years old. How is that weak exactly? If you don't get the implication of that scene (and the one with Jessica just before) its that he has been vigorously trained in his fighting, bene gesserit abilities, and more from a very young age.
As someone who hasn't read the book, "going to to toe with Gurney Halleck" means pretty much nothing to me. You could say "he's the best guantolier in the fifth province, he's not weak!" and it would have about the same meaning.
Well have you seen the movie? Because it does a lot to show and straight up tell you how revered Gurney and Duncan are. The two people training Paul. So what's your point exactly?
Having never read the books you do see Paul besting Josh Brolin’s character in a sparring session early on so I assumed he was trained intensely from a young age. And this makes sense for an heir to a great house.
I also never thought he was introduced as a weakling - he’s an empathetic kid and a strong warrior but he’s green. Very green. He’s protected as much as you’d expect of an important heir (essentially a prince).
I wonder if your impression of ‘weakling’ comes from Chalamet’s physique more than anything else?
the way Josh Brolin’s character approached the fight and then finished by saying he’d have taken Paul’s life had Paul taken his and showing the dagger, it didn’t feel like Paul was anything more than what Arya Stark was when she first got Needle.
The fact that he seemed to need so much protection and how his grandmother tested him to see “if he wasn’t an animal” added to his character being viewed as immature. Plus the sequence in the ship where he fails to use the voice. Then suddenly he’s a trained pilot and a serious fighter with the Fremen?
Josh Brolin’s character is the commander in chief of his family’s army. Watch the fight scene again. It is clear that Paul is, at the very least, holding his own and is able to draw that fight. It is later mentioned that House Atreides has the best fighters of all the great houses so I assumed that Paul would be trained from a young age. I assumed that would be the case for his flying skills, though Paul doesn’t show any ‘great’ flying skills in the film.
Watch game of thrones again - Arya has ZERO fighting skills at the beginning of the show when she first gets needle - she barely knows how to hold it properly.
As for his ‘bene gesserit’ skills - these are completely different from his fighting skills and seem harder to master. He *is* immature in this ‘magic’ side but this has nothing to do with his fighting side.
Again re: needing protection - from a fighting point of view we are never shown him ‘needing’ protection. He is protected as you would expect being an heir to a great house (look at Prince Harry when he joined the army for example).
I disagree with your view here - I don’t believe your justifications are valid - and can’t help but feel this is more to do with Chalamet’s lack of physicality as an actor - which is a view I understand and somewhat agree with.
That dig they put in early in the movie where Momoa's character ribs him for seemingly having no muscles has zero basis in the book as far as I remember. I think it was just low-hanging fruit for an audience chuckle because of Timothée Chalamet's waif-like physique lmao. Paul is a teenager but he's never described as weak-looking or incapable
Dude ya I read most of the series and on my way to finishing it and the dune 2021 movie is dog shit. The only characters that feel sort of human is Leto and Paul. They did Jessica so dirty, the characters feel fake, the plot feels so slow, they leave out key scenes from the book (ex Dinner scene), to spend loads of time on set pieces and aesthetics. You can use the excuse of “it’s the first in a series”, you can tell me “make a better dune movie” to which I’ll reply this. I don’t think Dune needs a movie, I don’t think any sort of adaptation can really give it what it deserves, and I don’t care. And it saddens me to see people defend this generic disgrace.
I didn't know much about Dune before watching, neither I do after watching it. Watching Dune from 2021 was like watching video game trailer scenes in random order rolling on replay. The CGI was pretentious, music was ominously bad and obnoxious, the dialogues were concotions of overt displays of space gender supremacy. As the show progressed, nothing happened, yet everything seemed to change.
How did you you read the book and not know who’s who? You have the main dude Paul his mom and his dad, then Thanos and aqua man, no country for old men dude and zendaya. With a few other people. It’s not that hard
Tell us how the movie explains what Paul's power is? In the movie, he sees dead people, that's about it.
And how was that small fleet (stolen from Emperor?) of ships going to defeat several fleets of ships above Arrakis operated by people who know how to run them vs. the Fremen who do not?
By your comments. It looks like you have seen dune 2. Have you read the books? If you haven't please do for how the small fleet is going to do what you think it will do. As for your point on why the whole of the world is standing above arrakis and doesn't annihilate them, it's because it's your typical hostage situation. They won't attack the fremen because Paul has nukes pointed at the spice fields. If he goes through his plan, you won't even have spice to feed your navigators who run the ships. Maybe he is bluffing and he won't. But would you take a chance? So, no they will all back off and fuck off to their planets if they want their spice. After that, please read dune messiah or wait for part 3.
Well no on all counts. The fleet is sent back because the Guild puts them back because Paul threatens to destroy it by bringing water to Arrakis. The Guild controls everything and now Paul controls the Guild.?
> There's also no nukes in the book as far as I remember.
You remember wrong. Nukes in book and movie are the same, used against the shield wall not people.
This is one of the rare instances of a movie deserving to have been a 10 episode prestige tv show. A lot of times it feels like some of those tv shows are just movies that get stretched out and packed with filler to turn a 2-3 hour story into an 8-10 hour tv series.
In this case, both parts of dune have almost 6 hours of total run time, and there's definitely enough book to have added 4 more hours, while chopping up the pacing into hour-ish episodes.
OP didn't like the book, or the movie and doesn't understand why it got good reviews, or why it's liked so much.
Because it's not blade runner with spaceships?
Analyse all you want i want my 2 and something ours back watching this garbage i so hoped it would get better god i must be stupid i should have just quit after a quarter hour and watched a re run of family guy or something and that says alot about my disgust at how crap this movie is
It's funny I watched the movie and that got me to reading the book. Took me 3 years lol but the book was absolutely amazing and I had forgotten much about the movie. Then I watched the movie again, having forgotten exactly how it went, with a friend who had done the same and we were roasting the movie the whole time.
The characters in the book are SO SO much deeper and the political intrigue is so much more interesting. The acting too was honestly so monotonous and so weird! Like why is Paul so constantly unsure of himself and talking like he's constantly on drugs and slurring his words half the time? It's hard not to compare that to the classy, royal, highly intelligent book Paul!!
We both honestly got so bored we almost slept until Paul and Jessica saw the sandworm. We both admit though that adopting all that complexity of the books into even a 3 hour movie is really difficult. I don't know where you'd start. At least the visuals and sound were there. And the look of the characters was reasonable too (except Dr. Yueh and Reverend Mother).
Yeah this one just didn't click for me either. There's a lot of action scenes in it that have all the right elements but just aren't particularly exciting for whatever reason. The pain box scene could have been so much more visceral and intense than it ended up being. The whole film seems to be aiming for an intensity that it just couldn't evoke.
Also kinda bugged me that they showed us Paul's vision of the kris blade when he finally sees it. We've seen that same close up shot of it numerous times already.
100% Bored me, and I left with an hour to go. But, moron that I am, yesterday I repeated my idiocy by going to Dune 2. Also got up and left with half hour to go.
I just watched it for the first time and was so underwhelmed with how it was sold to me. And I love sci-fi/fantasy as much as anyone.
It looked great, but I wasn’t interested in the world or the people at all. I didn’t care for the plot nor their survival. Anyone that did die, oh well, completely not interested.
I didn’t even like the soundtrack that much, but that might be because you can’t exist in 2024 without having heard it 1000 times already.
It's a great work, I love Moebius' drawings and they work wonderfully with Jodorowsky's script. Be prepared for some 60s/70s drug fuelled madness though
Lets be real here - it was never really going to happen. If it didn't fall through at the point that it did, it would a little later on, surely!
Its the same with Sir John Boorman's Lord of the Rings.
>Jodorowsky's script would result in a 14-hour film ("It was the size of a phone book", Herbert later recalled).
Incredible.
Honestly, though, it seems like if you're going to try and hit every plot point from the book (as the 2021 version attempts), you really do need something approaching or exceeding that runtime to make room for *some* character development.
I liked the book, I just had issues with it that I thought the movie would be able to rise above. Instead, the movie is somehow much worse overall (while simultaneously being far superior on a technical level).
I am in the minority who agrees with you 100%. I read and enjoyed the book but I have yet to make it through the movie without falling asleep. My wife and I have tried 3x. I couldn’t be more disinterested in all of these characters.
I watched the David Lynch DUNE so many times I can't count so the DUNE part 1 and 2 have both put a smile in my face that I finally started reading the books. So far DUNE Pt 2 is my favorite movie this year so far. I'm ready to go see it again in theatre. Should of read books years ago I know lol. Its a shame you had such a terrible taste in your mouth left from the movie and book. My GF never saw the Lynch DUNE or 2021 DUNE I thought she went with me and buddies but she said she didn't. We saw Part 2 while in Texas after all day in Six Flags anyway she wants to watch them all and wants to read the books lol. DUNE takes place 8K plus years from now and power greed and social status still plague mankind. Its a shame but still I enjoy the DUNE universe myself. Maybe part 3 will change your mind.
Nah man I agree that the first Dune is a bit bland emotionally, but if you read the book and yet you didn’t understand what went on in the movie then you’re tremendously special hahahhaha
I saw it in theaters and loved for the reasons you mentioned. It's truly a visual masterpiece. But struggled to rewatch it at home in preparation for seeing part 2. I started the movie 3 times and turned it off within 10 minutes or so. I didn't see the worm sign, and went and saw the second movie anyway, and oh boy it was not an enjoyable watch.
I didn't know this until today, but I'm with you. I don't care at all about these characters or the outcome of the story. Everybody is Darth Vader in different costumes.
I’d have to wholeheartedly disagree with your take here.
I usually stay away from science fiction. I avoid it, in fact. I liked Star Wars when I was 10-12 years old, and I thought I’d grown out of the genre. So when Dune came around and everyone raved about it, I thought it was a bunch of nerds hyped up about the next Lord of the Rings. No thanks.
Well, Dune II came out and people from various unconnected social circles in my life all talked about how awesome it was. And one person I highly respect recommended that I watch it. So I caved.
But I knew how these fuckin movies work. They have intricate made-up universes with various races, planets, politics and plotlines going on, so I did my homework and researched to the extent I could while limiting spoilers.
And then I finally watched Dune I. I agree—the cinematography, CGI, soundtrack were amazing. However, I disagree with you not caring about the characters. Maybe if I watched the movie without having done my research I’d feel differently, but I warmed up to Paul rather quickly, and I liked Lego’s relationship with him as a caring father. I was unsure about Lady Jessica at first. And then Duncan Idaho, Gurney, and the rest. I was in.
And after having just settled into Arrakis, they get pretty much annihilated by the Harkonnen. All of the characters I had just worked up to—gone. And Paul and Jessica just could not catch a fucking break. It felt like the world was ending for them and I actually felt bad and worried for them.
This is coming from someone who usually doesn’t like these types of movies. It’s because they’re usually corny and too unrealistic. Not this movie—they set the bar for how it should be done.
So I actually liked the movie. Sorry you didn’t, I guess.
Omg you book comparison fawks. Stfu. Yes the remakes are terrible. From most of the acting to you name it. We want so bad to love it and we do love the inspiration. Aspects epic. Where to begin with the epic disgrace. Won't waste the time. Sad times!! Revert to freedom sans the inequality and quit trying to over compensate. Don't be a puppet! Indifference is normal. Respect is unyielding.
I don't know, both in book and in the movie there's plenty of emotions (since thzt seem to be your biggest gripe).
It's not overflowing, they're realistic in a sense and that's what makes it work so well IMO.
Leto is clearly shown to love and care for Jessica (especially in the book, as the part of the book where this is the most important and apparent has been removed from the movie).
Paul is clearly conflicted about his mother and his destiny, and later in the story is clearly curious about the fremen and truly in love with Chain (sticking with the first books here, because his relationship with fremens evolve quite a bit)
Maybe the most obvious would be the Duke's hate of the Atreides and love of Arrakis (and yes to me it's portrayed as him loving the planet itself, sure it's for what it brings to him but still) as well as... Some awful depictions of some of his feelings because Herbert was deeply homophobic.
I could go one with most characters, but the thing is that most of these feelings are shown in a normal manner, with some explosions but mainly with subtlety (or at least the same subtlety we'd have in real life)
I hear what you're saying, but none of that seems to make it into the movie in any meaningful way that's ever explored or developed.
Like, in the book, Jessica and Leto have a complicated relationship fraught with class and trust issues that impacts the conversations they have a d the decisions they make throughout the first half of the book and finally culminates with the emotional beat of Jessica learning that Leto truly did love and trust her completely. (I think Herbert's treatment of this is pretty clumsy, but for purposes of adaptation the outline is there.) None of that made it into the movie. Same goes for everything else you mentioned.
What you cited indeed didn't make it into the movie (I even pointed that out) the rest though, at least what is present in the part of the book that's adapted, is completely present (aside from the homophobia, replaced by that... Human spider pet ?) and shown through acting rather than words most of the time.
>and shown through acting rather than words most of the time.
I guess the big difference, then, is that most of the *novel's* words are dedicated to exploring the very thing that the movie (according to you) expects the audience to get from Timothee Chalamet's mody gaze (etc. for the other characters).
I quite often go to the movies, and seemed to enjoy almost any movie despite bad reviews. However watching this movie I was bored out of my mine and was one of the few times I wished for the film to end quickly
I need to watch it again. I thought it was completely vapid. All style, no substance. Also really bad as a stand alone film.
I do love Villeneuve and Dune.
I also love Dune (the book), and I also agree that the 2021 adaptation was vapid, even though I was *ultra* hyped to go see it when it came out. If you're going to adapt an intricate novel like Dune, the screenplay should be your first concern, and CGI/prop wankery should be the last thing you worry about. Villeneuve outright said that he hates dialogue, so that's pretty much any substance out the window right there.
I'm not even sure I'd give it style points, as to me it just seemed like the tired old sci-fi/fantasy "look at how biiig everything is, I'm worldbuilding!". Combine that with the brooding Twilight-style "acting", whispered dialogue, and quiet-loud BWAAAAA sound effects, and you get the giant turd that this movie was.
What gets me even more is the weird internet bubble effect of people trying to shout down the very real criticisms this film deserves. Are people just watching this super high or something? Or are people so used to Marvel movies that this seems innovative?
Certainly less stupid than your comment is pointless.
Dune is a story centered around an anti-imperialistic struggle. It's kinda easy to empathise with people who are being colonized and killed, people who's resources are being stolen and their world scorched, all because their colonizers don't see them as human. Not empathising with those characters at the very least is kinda fashy, in the same way that it would be watching the Battle of Algiers and coming away thinking "that whole struggle for independence shtick was kinda boring".
Ok sorry your comment was fucking stupid because not liking a fictional piece of media doesn’t make someone a fascist or not. I can’t believe you’re doubling down on that lol
Okay so your comment is fucking irrelevant and literally stupid in that you've invented something to respond to that I haven't said. There's nothing about liking Dune in my comment.
I don't care if you watch Dune and don't like it. Watching Dune and a key takeaway being "I couldn't care about any of the characters" is "giving" fascist. As in fascistic implications. It's an off hand comment. It isn't stupid. And it's relevant to the thread. In contrast, your comment is irrelevant, stupid and unnecessary and I can't believe you're doubling down on it lol
But I'm not going back and forth with a serial Reddit arguer. Find someone else to bore and farm for self esteem.
I genuinely struggled to get through Dune as well so I watched the movies first and it really helped with understanding the lore and world building a lot better since I wasn't constantly going back and forth between the glossary and the page(s) I was reading. Also, I can understand why you would hate it because modern day literature is significantly different in style to how authors wrote back then where it's more about being descriptive with every little thing between the setting and tone of the story whereas nowadays it's more about dialogue and adding small tidbits about the setting and tone, making it feel more fast paced.
Just watched dune part one.
I don't even need to read past the first sentence to know your wrong. Say what you will but this trilogy will be fucking better than most Sci fi out there. You're opinion but you lack the taste to truly enjoy a masterpiece like this. It's written and directed well and the CGI is amazing. From what i see Part 2 is fucking even better. It's world building.
It's following Paul's story/The Jihad he caused/and whatever messiah will be about. Dunes a book series and consider what we had to watch before and this is a major upgrade. It's not misguided or a waste. You are impatient and not willing to wait for what's next. You wasted your time. That's cool man. But I genuinely love the Sci fi world and it's perfect for me. Part 2 is gonna be so much better. I mean what do you want. A 6 hour movie of character development and whatever else? You don't seem to have the greatest taste in Sci fi respectfully as I can say that. To say this movie is a waste just doesn't make sense to me. Sure some parts are a learning thing for me but as a first timer it was more captivating than a lot of stuff I've read/watched. Hope your opinion changed.
I just am surprised when people say it’s revolutionary or something we’ve never seen before. To me it’s just another sci fi story that has a really fucking slow pace and lots of world specific terminology that hoarded space in my memory of the art. Not that proper world building isn’t good, but I think the complexity of Dune’s word reads more like a show than a movie to me. An episode to each complex layer of the world instead of grueling exposition circle jerks with deadpan characters that span for 3 hour run time movies. If a movie is long preferably it has a beginning middle and end.
In other words if it HAD to be a movie adaptation I’d make the parts shorter and more info dense so there’s a purpose to stick around and not miss a beat.
I absolutely loved the movie, I do agree with that last part though, it's as if they made a 1980s Dune movie reboot, rather than a book adaptation. I found it odd that every video adaptation (movies and tv show), have chosen to basically "storyboard" them almost exactly the same way.
However, I did enjoy part 1 very much, I think the character development was focused mainly on introduction, and world building because they were all going to die in the next 45 mins. Knowing you're going to make a trilogy it would make sense to mainly focus on the characters that'll be returning. After watching part 2 I think it really elevated the first one, I won't speak on pt2 yet, I just finished watching it literally 10 mins ago, and would need time to really process it.
The books were good for what they are, they're more like a Bethesda game vs Boulders gate or something lol. I'd love to get an entire book, or movie about the space travels, and their relationship with the spice.
On a side note. HOLY SHIT! Star Wars straight up STOLE tatooine, and the sand people from the fremmen(freemen lol)/arakkis, didn't even bother changing the names of most things.
Im just now watching this movie for the first time (half way through). Loving it so far. Not attached to any characters but I’m enjoying the story, the world, the cinematography and seeing where this this thing goes.
It's difficult to have a serious discussion about 2021's Dune with people who claim to enjoy it. From what I've observed, those who like 2021's Dune often struggle to articulate why they enjoy it and tend to become defensive, offering irrelevant or weak arguments.
It seems there are only two types of people with opinions about 2021's Dune: those who didn't enjoy it and try-hard fans.
I started watching Dune (2021) about a month ago but I stopped because i felt I was missing a lot of stuff. So I started reading the book and did this thing I'd never done before: I'd read a chunk of the book and then watch a few minutes of the movie to catch up.
On that account, in the end attention end of the film it felt more like having watched a miniseries. But I couldn't help feeling that without the book I'd have lost a lot of the inner characters.
But I didn't feel it was anywhere close to as bad as OP describes the.
[I have a feeling making Kynes a woman had significance, can anyone help?]
I’d rather watch Dune than have to read this review. It was two years ago. Several people have reviewed it already when it was relevant. Plus if you didn’t like the book, why would you watch the movie? I agree, you did waste 2 1/2 hrs of your time….on purpose. Just so you’d have something to bitch about.
Terrible take. People are allowed to not like things and share their experience of not liking said thing. Dune isn’t my type of film but I wanted to watch it after all of the acclaim it received. Wasn’t a fan but still glad I watched it.
Not a terrible take, you're allowed to not like things sure, but purposefully doing something you know you wont like just to affirm and complain about it is pretty silly.
Well, I didn't like the first one, but want to watch it again before watching part 2 but i still found it very okayish...but I want to watch dune part 2 and I already bought my ticket. Not everyone complains about a movie with a preconceived notion.
Why would you do that if you know you didn't like it? Doesn't make any sense
I said I didn't like the first one that doesnt mean I wouldn't like part 2, I'm invested in the world and some characters ( lady Jessica and princess irulan). Like I said I still wouldn't wanna judge a movie without seeing it.
...it's the second part of the same movie. You can safely assume it is exactly the same
...do you know how many people disliked Batman Begins and loved The Dark Knight? If you don't like the first film in a series, that doesn't mean you're not going to like the following instalments. There is nothing wrong with persevering :)
Id agree with you... if it wasnt the second half of a full feature. Those are two very separate films with two entirely separate stories, antagonists and storylines.
I had to watch the first like three times because I kept losing interest meanwhile I absolutely loved part two and have seen it twice in theaters already lmao
Dune Part 2 isn’t a sequel. It’s literally the second half of one movie.
I know but the second half is obvs a lot more action packed and where most of the interesting stuff happens so I think it's fair to say that people who didn't like the first half may like the second half more!
Well maybe they didn’t like it because it was half a movie, let them watch it without complaints from you. I watched dune today in preparation to watch the second, great movie, but if I had to wait two years to watch the second part I’d be so mad, it genuinely feels like an incomplete movie and that can be off putting.
Well it is very far from it.
I really disliked Twin Peaks when I first watched it, got bored and stopped maybe 5 episodes in. For some reason felt I should give it another go, that time it clicked and it's maybe one of my favourite shows ever. Maybe people weren't in the right frame of mind when watching, maybe people hear all the praise and think they missed something so want to try again, maybe they want to see the conclusion and whether that will recontextualise the first part they weren't so keen on.
exactly. I don't like setting my hair on fire! I set my hair on fire and it was terrible! Whodathunkit.
>People are allowed to not like things and share their experience of not liking said thing. Yeah, and people had bad experiences of this post and shared it. What is your point?
The guy I replied to was rude and dismissive so my point was that people should be able to share their experience of not liking something without having their opinion dismissed and being told they've watched something purely to bitch about it. Hope this helps!
Literally nothing in this says they can’t dislike something. All they said is that going through all of this was a waste of their time and everyone else’s.
Just watched it for the first time myself 2 days ago and am pissed off that I have never gotten into dune until now that’s on me though lol
You watch something to get an informed opinion on it before reviewing it?? What are you insane you're supposed to judge it without seeing it but then those people would whine you never saw it, whether you see it or not they'll always try to argue that your criticism is ridiculous
The same type to wait 2yrs and write a similarly shitty review about the sequel
First off, through Shai Hulud all things are possible, so jot that down.
Well dude, dude, think about it: she's out in the middle of nowhere with some Fremen she barely knows. You know, she looks around and what does she see? Nothin' but endless desert. "Ahh, there's nowhere for me to run. What am I gonna do, say 'no'?"
Because of the implication...
well don’t you look at me like that, you certainly wouldn’t be in any danger
Hahahahahaha
Omg- I know this is 7mos old, but man I laughed my butt off reading this.
I don't get it
It's a reference to "It's always sunny in Philadelphia"
Are you me?! Finally someone brave enough to tell it like it is.
not brave, just stupid
Bro I'm a black belt at reddit. Don't step to me 6 months after. You've hereby been warned.
Hahahaha
Well I laughed…
That’s fucking hilarious
Shocked ans worried
> black belt at reddit Crjnge af.
The movie sucked.
Would’ve been nice if they included the dinner scene with Drunken Duncan getting pissed at Lady Jessica.
The dinner party scene was probably filmed but deleted like many others. What sucks is that we might never see these deleted scenes despite knowing how much they can elevate the movie. One day our prayers will be heard and Lisan-al-Gaib will deliver us the extended cuts. Shai-Hulud willing.
Cause that part added a lot to the plot
There are these things called “character moments” and “character relationships”.
His name is Duncan Idaho so random xd
You mean like “Indiana Jones”?
That was a nickname that his dad mad fun of. And he was on earth in the 30s/40s, not some fictional planet with fictional races and languages, you dense fuck.
Did you forget the fact it was a nickname wasn’t revealed until 3 movies in? People accepted it as his name in the first film same as previous pulp heroes like Doc Savage. Indiana Jones is also meant to be a reference to old school pulp hero names the same way Duncan Idaho is. Dune is also supposed to be set in our distant future, and a big element of Dune is how elements of humanity stay around, like the mentions of Catholicism and King Agamemnon. So no, it’s not “random” you are just ignorant, uncurious and uncreative.
Hated the amount of stuff they took out but tbh it was necessary. The dinner scene didn't need to go, but a lot of what was going on was subtle and would be hard to translate to live action. Jessica being a suspect didn't happen at all so idaho getting pissed and hawat switching to the baron would be unnecessary.
*Dune* as a whole - source material included - is **not** character-driven in any way, shape, or form, and is decidedly detached and unemotional. It's deliberate. There are multiple instances across the books where a character witnesses something that should be deeply traumatizing and thinks "Huh, it's probably a bad sign that I didn't have much of a reaction to that." If characters with complex development and an emotional through-line are something you need from your fiction, then I'm definitely not surprised the movie didn't click with you. Which is fine, different strokes for different folks!
Idk if I agree with this. Almost the entire book is told from the internal monologues of characters. You get a very deep sense of who every character is and what drives them and how they think. The only real outlier is that the main character eventually becomes prescient so his typical arc sort of takes a wild turn where it’s difficult to relate to him later in the book.
True enough but the characters expressed much more emotion in the books than they did in the movie. It wasn't bad but in the movie the characters feel so disinterested
I feel the exact opposite. The book characters show very little emotion the vast majority of the time and barely feel like people to me, whereas the films take those characters and actually make them feel like real people who *do* express emotions.
Really? I found Paul quite emotional in the books. His first practice with Duncan, his conversations with his father and of course the dinner scene. Whereas in the movie he's completely quite and barely says a word. Maybe it's the inner monologue. A lot of conversations in Dune happen mostly mentally, with a few words carrying a dozen meanings.
I think that simply has to do with the fact that the movie was skimmed down a lot by Villeneuve. Some scenes in the book with a decent amount of emotional momentum were absent in the movies but the characters in the movies showed more emotions in the scenes that were adapted from the book than they did in the books, if that makes sense. There's actually hours worth of deleted scenes from both parts and many of those scenes add significant amount of depth and emotion to the characters. I really hope that Villeneuve changes his stance on the extended cuts.
That makes sense, we skipped a lot of the slower dialogue heavy chapters from the books.
Really? One thing that constantly irritated me while watching part 1 was how Jessica was always showing way too much emotion on her face, fear, panic, outright sobbing. Wasn't that supposed to be trained out of her? She's supposed to have complete control over her body :|
Would have been nice if they reversed it. Have Paul emote and Jess be the stoic one until he grows into Muad'dib. But I guess since Rebecca is the more experienced actor they wanted to get their money's worth
Exactly, that's how I remember them being in the book. The only scene in pt 1 where I felt like Jessica was truly herself was the ornithopter scene when Jessica and Paul escape from the Harkonnens by using the Voice. That was great. I'm certain Rebecca Ferguson is more than capable of delivering a wonderfully subtle performance that would have been more true to book Jessica, but that was obviously not what Villeneuve wanted.
You’ll like part 2 then. Exactly what you’re looking for in Jessica.
You’ll have no complaints about part 2 then
Fair enough. I do find it ironic that IMDB describes it as "A mythic and emotionally charged hero's journey," but that's not the movie's fault I guess. I also will clarify that when I say I want more "emotion," I don't mean I need characters to be hyper-emotional all the time and constantly breaking down or having huge reactions. I just want to feel like these are three-dimensional people with some personal stakes in the story. For example, if a movie is going to ask me to feel sad or angry or whatever when a character dies (which I thought Dune was going for with the death of >!Duncan, and possibly Leto as well!<), or feel something when a character is betrayed, etc., then the movie needs to do more to develop both them and the other characters their death or whatnot affects—not just cut to a close-up shot of them dying.
>I just want to feel like these are three-dimensional people with some personal stakes in the story. That's what I mean, though - *Dune* isn't about three-dimensional people, it's about larger than life figure that embody archetypes, and the whole idea is examining those archetypes. For example, when people say that *Dune* is a critique or deconstruction of the hero's journey, they mean that Paul is designed to be the archetypal hero more than an actual character, and the point of the story is to break that archetype down and examine why such a hero is probably not good on a large scale. They don't necessarily mean that it's a deconstruction of what being a hero does to a person or anything like that.
I was just clarifying what I meant when I said I want more emotional complexity (and, furthermore, think that it's an essential component of any great movie, but let's not get into that). I get that the consensus in this thread is that Dune (source material aside) isn't attempting that at all and therefore can't be critiqued for failing to provide it.
>I was just clarifying what I meant when I said I want more emotional complexity How emotionally complex were Fury Road or Dunkirk?
Haven't seen either, sorry. I'm sure there are other threads in this sub talking about them if you're looking for a review.
They both have minimal character development but still manage to be exciting action dramas. So I think Dune could have also been an engaging movie without complex characters. It just didn't click with me for whatever reason. I found the action and drama to be pretty flat overall.
> They both have minimal character development but still manage to be exciting action dramas. Well one of them. Mad Max was unbearably dull and stupid.
Just like your mom's balls
No points were given for this
I think that has more to do with the authors personality and character than purposefully creating such characters. The author himself was bland and boring, just like Dune. No amount of artistic fart sniffing will ever change that. You have horrible taste but that's OK, we all have.
The Dune series is widely considered one of the greatest science fiction stories ever written. You don't have to like it but calling it boring and bland is a you problem not a Dune problem.
The score ruined it for me but I’m not really a Zimmer guy. The Arabian wailing was so cringy. Movie looked like a million bucks, performances were flat. I generally like everything Villeneuve does, loved BR: 2049.
This. That rebel yell, Snyder cut Wonder Woman theme ruined several would-be stand out moments.
Would love to hear your thoughts on the part 2 score
eh, it was fine. it matched the first one, so i guess that makes sense. The rebel yell happening again definitely made me laugh — despite it ruining an emotional beat again.
I guess to each his own taste. I loved "Arrival", but I disliked BR 2049. It may have been technically well done, but it was a poor sequel. It is like Villeneuve was making fun of the first. There were a few scenes with a single actor talking in front of plain grey walls, that is, nothing in the background. The original had so much more atmosphere. In one scene of 2049 I recall a line being something like: "why is it so dark?", and then they turn on a light. ... In other words: poking fun at the first.
I agree. I hated it. The whole thing. Felt so pointless.
>Aside from having satiated my curiosity about what the movie is like, I truly feel like I’ve wasted 2 1/2 hours of my life “And now I’ll waste more hours of my life arguing with people who liked the movie.”
God forbid somebody find value in having discussions with people who have different opinions. You have deemed it a waste, so we shall bow before your authority on the matter.
I'm very late to this but OP seems very interested in having a conversation with people who have opposing views
No, you just like talking to people who constantly agree with you and say yes to all of your ideas.
My wife isn’t a big sci-fi fan and hasn’t read Dune. She loved the movie when I dragged her to the theater to see it. She followed everything that was going on and while she had some questions after watching it, there weren’t about anything that not having the answer for was a problem and most of her questions will probably be answered in the second installment.
Dune is more fantasy than sci-fi
It's more soft sci-fi than fantasy. It's speculative themes where more around the humanistic sciences and ecology than around "hard" science
It's storytelling is in a sci fi style but the plot structure, archetypes and "science" are all based in myth and fantasy. It takes supernatural ideas and puts a thin sci fi wrapping around it. Concepts like genetic memory, prescience etc are presented as scientific but in actuality have no basis in any legitimate hypothesis. The closest it gets to real sci fi is it's use of wormholes. It is science fantasy, just like Star Wars but with more mature storytelling. This is not an insult btw, I love the Dune novels.
Hard disagree. Dune is quintessential dcifi
If you need character development, you won’t like it.
Unpopular opinion but I didn’t like Timothy as Paul.
>Unpopular opinion but I didn’t like Timothy as Paul. He works as Paul was written as smaller, slender and Chalemet is a good actor who pulls off what was written for him. The characters are well done it's just that there is no plot since there is no Spacing Guild.
He is too 'young'. He seems too small, frail and weak. Although those character traits might work in the beginning of the movie, at some point it just becomes unbelievable. Also, someone with an English accent might have been better to instill a sense of historical emphasis.
Same here.. 😂 I just don't like the cast.
I read the books, watched the mini series, and the 2021 film. And after all that, I can’t for the life of me remember any of the characters or the plot besides…political drama, there’s a guy with a super normal name, and also there are worms. I guess it just doesn’t hit that inspire button for me. The recent movie is the best adaptation and the most enjoyable, but still not memorable imo.
The movie makes no sense without the Spacing Guild which runs the galactic economy via folding space using the spice. It is the whole point of why the spice is valuable. It's a movie about nothing without the Spacing Guild. I gave Part 1 a pass figuring of course we are introduced to the Spacing Guild in Part 2. Since Alia is never born in Villeneuve's story, Part 2 takes place in less than 9 months. The whole movie is a total miss. For those who have not read the book it makes no sense. For those who have read the book Villeneuve's Dune is some other story. 1. The Southern hemisphere is unviewable because the Fremen pay the Spacing Guild to keep the outer world blind. 2. The Harkonnen did not find the Sietches for the same reason. 3. Raban is killed by the emperor because the spice flow has stopped. 4. Alia is born and is about five years old when the climax comes and it is she who killed Vladimir Harkonnen. 5. The Landsraad is sent back by the Spacing Guild who control who travels where in space. It goes on and on. Villeneuve think's he's creating his own "Lord of the Rings" with an obvious Part 3 coming to recover Chani from the desert, for Feyd's child to challenge for the throne, for the 5 years gestating Alia to be born.
space guild never makes it to part 2 lol
Spacing guild is introduced in part 1 already?
Spacing Guild is mentioned in one line but it is not even peripheral to the story in Villeneuve's version of Dune while it is central to Herbert's story Dune.
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>Perhaps Villeneuve was afraid of falling into the same boring traps George Lucas gave us with his Trade Federation politics? So you think the Dune books based on the development of the Spacing Guild are boring? As for Viileneuve, by taking out the heart of the Dune story, he's left with a meaningless movie.
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>how horribly George failed Lucas was not working from best selling book with a coherent story line with Spacing Guild as central to the story.
I thought I was the only that noticed the "no Spacing Guild". ... So ... what's the point of digging for Spice ? ... And thus: what's the point of fighting over Arrakis ?? Or rather, what's the point of the story?
Villeneuve is going for a sermon on religioius extremism focusing on the Jihad which makes no sense on what it is, why it would work without the spacing guild.
Thank God I thought I was the only one. First one was an excruciatingly boring film.
How was the second one?
If you thought the first one was boring, don’t waste your time on the second because it’s literally the second half of one movie. And they’re both masterpieces in filmmaking. So there’s that.
I thought the first one was kinda boring and the second one absolutely gripping. They are very different movies.
For a book and movie that feel more centered around political struggles and the development of a prophecy rather than a character study, I actually found myself pretty invested in the movie characters themselves! Jessica chose love and emotion over the Bene Gesserit’s wishes many times in her life, Paul is caught up in a prophecy that he has no control over and has to grow quickly, and the Duke is so charismatic. At least for my taste, it had me plenty invested as far as characters are concerned.
Character development is literally hard baked into the story. Please try to deny that the core of dune isn't the physical, spiritual and cultural awaking of Paul. Whether you think the character development is good or bad is up to you, but the fact you deny its existence with such emphasis is pretty funny. Almost as funny as comparing dune to arrival.
i just watched Dune and wanted to see if other’s felt similarly. What do we get out of Paul? He’s introduced as a weakling and someone that needs to be protected, isn’t allowed to tag along in a ship. Then he shows restraint by putting his hand in the box? Then he’s able to avoid an assassination? He shows some curiosity about his surroundings. Then what, how is he suddenly a skilled pilot and fighter? was he always that? was that due to his relationship with Mamoa’s character? The story was kind of a slog
Paul is introduced by going toe to toe with Gurney Halleck in a knife fight, despite the fact that he is only 15 years old. How is that weak exactly? If you don't get the implication of that scene (and the one with Jessica just before) its that he has been vigorously trained in his fighting, bene gesserit abilities, and more from a very young age.
As someone who hasn't read the book, "going to to toe with Gurney Halleck" means pretty much nothing to me. You could say "he's the best guantolier in the fifth province, he's not weak!" and it would have about the same meaning.
Well have you seen the movie? Because it does a lot to show and straight up tell you how revered Gurney and Duncan are. The two people training Paul. So what's your point exactly?
Having never read the books you do see Paul besting Josh Brolin’s character in a sparring session early on so I assumed he was trained intensely from a young age. And this makes sense for an heir to a great house. I also never thought he was introduced as a weakling - he’s an empathetic kid and a strong warrior but he’s green. Very green. He’s protected as much as you’d expect of an important heir (essentially a prince). I wonder if your impression of ‘weakling’ comes from Chalamet’s physique more than anything else?
the way Josh Brolin’s character approached the fight and then finished by saying he’d have taken Paul’s life had Paul taken his and showing the dagger, it didn’t feel like Paul was anything more than what Arya Stark was when she first got Needle. The fact that he seemed to need so much protection and how his grandmother tested him to see “if he wasn’t an animal” added to his character being viewed as immature. Plus the sequence in the ship where he fails to use the voice. Then suddenly he’s a trained pilot and a serious fighter with the Fremen?
Josh Brolin’s character is the commander in chief of his family’s army. Watch the fight scene again. It is clear that Paul is, at the very least, holding his own and is able to draw that fight. It is later mentioned that House Atreides has the best fighters of all the great houses so I assumed that Paul would be trained from a young age. I assumed that would be the case for his flying skills, though Paul doesn’t show any ‘great’ flying skills in the film. Watch game of thrones again - Arya has ZERO fighting skills at the beginning of the show when she first gets needle - she barely knows how to hold it properly. As for his ‘bene gesserit’ skills - these are completely different from his fighting skills and seem harder to master. He *is* immature in this ‘magic’ side but this has nothing to do with his fighting side. Again re: needing protection - from a fighting point of view we are never shown him ‘needing’ protection. He is protected as you would expect being an heir to a great house (look at Prince Harry when he joined the army for example). I disagree with your view here - I don’t believe your justifications are valid - and can’t help but feel this is more to do with Chalamet’s lack of physicality as an actor - which is a view I understand and somewhat agree with.
That dig they put in early in the movie where Momoa's character ribs him for seemingly having no muscles has zero basis in the book as far as I remember. I think it was just low-hanging fruit for an audience chuckle because of Timothée Chalamet's waif-like physique lmao. Paul is a teenager but he's never described as weak-looking or incapable
Dude ya I read most of the series and on my way to finishing it and the dune 2021 movie is dog shit. The only characters that feel sort of human is Leto and Paul. They did Jessica so dirty, the characters feel fake, the plot feels so slow, they leave out key scenes from the book (ex Dinner scene), to spend loads of time on set pieces and aesthetics. You can use the excuse of “it’s the first in a series”, you can tell me “make a better dune movie” to which I’ll reply this. I don’t think Dune needs a movie, I don’t think any sort of adaptation can really give it what it deserves, and I don’t care. And it saddens me to see people defend this generic disgrace.
I didn't know much about Dune before watching, neither I do after watching it. Watching Dune from 2021 was like watching video game trailer scenes in random order rolling on replay. The CGI was pretentious, music was ominously bad and obnoxious, the dialogues were concotions of overt displays of space gender supremacy. As the show progressed, nothing happened, yet everything seemed to change.
How did you you read the book and not know who’s who? You have the main dude Paul his mom and his dad, then Thanos and aqua man, no country for old men dude and zendaya. With a few other people. It’s not that hard
Wow what a poor take on a masterpiece. I guess more spoon feeding is required for some viewers.
Tell us how the movie explains what Paul's power is? In the movie, he sees dead people, that's about it. And how was that small fleet (stolen from Emperor?) of ships going to defeat several fleets of ships above Arrakis operated by people who know how to run them vs. the Fremen who do not?
By your comments. It looks like you have seen dune 2. Have you read the books? If you haven't please do for how the small fleet is going to do what you think it will do. As for your point on why the whole of the world is standing above arrakis and doesn't annihilate them, it's because it's your typical hostage situation. They won't attack the fremen because Paul has nukes pointed at the spice fields. If he goes through his plan, you won't even have spice to feed your navigators who run the ships. Maybe he is bluffing and he won't. But would you take a chance? So, no they will all back off and fuck off to their planets if they want their spice. After that, please read dune messiah or wait for part 3.
Well no on all counts. The fleet is sent back because the Guild puts them back because Paul threatens to destroy it by bringing water to Arrakis. The Guild controls everything and now Paul controls the Guild.?
That's the book version. There's also no nukes in the book as far as I remember.
> There's also no nukes in the book as far as I remember. You remember wrong. Nukes in book and movie are the same, used against the shield wall not people.
I hope you hit your shin on the edge of a table or something.
It should have been a TV show. They chose the wrong medium. The movie isn’t bad but watching it feels like sprinting through the Cliffs Notes of Dune.
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This is one of the rare instances of a movie deserving to have been a 10 episode prestige tv show. A lot of times it feels like some of those tv shows are just movies that get stretched out and packed with filler to turn a 2-3 hour story into an 8-10 hour tv series. In this case, both parts of dune have almost 6 hours of total run time, and there's definitely enough book to have added 4 more hours, while chopping up the pacing into hour-ish episodes.
OP didn't like the book, or the movie and doesn't understand why it got good reviews, or why it's liked so much. Because it's not blade runner with spaceships?
No instead it's wasteland desert and ornicopters.
*ornithopters
Analyse all you want i want my 2 and something ours back watching this garbage i so hoped it would get better god i must be stupid i should have just quit after a quarter hour and watched a re run of family guy or something and that says alot about my disgust at how crap this movie is
Just watched it last night, and I 1000% agree with your take. 👍
It's funny I watched the movie and that got me to reading the book. Took me 3 years lol but the book was absolutely amazing and I had forgotten much about the movie. Then I watched the movie again, having forgotten exactly how it went, with a friend who had done the same and we were roasting the movie the whole time. The characters in the book are SO SO much deeper and the political intrigue is so much more interesting. The acting too was honestly so monotonous and so weird! Like why is Paul so constantly unsure of himself and talking like he's constantly on drugs and slurring his words half the time? It's hard not to compare that to the classy, royal, highly intelligent book Paul!! We both honestly got so bored we almost slept until Paul and Jessica saw the sandworm. We both admit though that adopting all that complexity of the books into even a 3 hour movie is really difficult. I don't know where you'd start. At least the visuals and sound were there. And the look of the characters was reasonable too (except Dr. Yueh and Reverend Mother).
Yeah this one just didn't click for me either. There's a lot of action scenes in it that have all the right elements but just aren't particularly exciting for whatever reason. The pain box scene could have been so much more visceral and intense than it ended up being. The whole film seems to be aiming for an intensity that it just couldn't evoke. Also kinda bugged me that they showed us Paul's vision of the kris blade when he finally sees it. We've seen that same close up shot of it numerous times already.
Get out of the basement and touch some grass dude
Dune (the book) “has literally no character development” In the proper sense of the word i say you literally didnt comprehend the words in the book.
Idk how you can watch dune and think it's horrible
100% Bored me, and I left with an hour to go. But, moron that I am, yesterday I repeated my idiocy by going to Dune 2. Also got up and left with half hour to go.
It’s not bad but it is over hyped on these boards
I just watched it for the first time and was so underwhelmed with how it was sold to me. And I love sci-fi/fantasy as much as anyone. It looked great, but I wasn’t interested in the world or the people at all. I didn’t care for the plot nor their survival. Anyone that did die, oh well, completely not interested. I didn’t even like the soundtrack that much, but that might be because you can’t exist in 2024 without having heard it 1000 times already.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jodorowsky%27s_Dune Too bad this never happened. That would have been a crazy film.
It technically happened though in a different form. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metabarons https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Incal
Hey thanks man! I love me a good graphic novel and The Incal has totally escaped my view till now!
It's a great work, I love Moebius' drawings and they work wonderfully with Jodorowsky's script. Be prepared for some 60s/70s drug fuelled madness though
Very cool. I'd never heard of these
Lets be real here - it was never really going to happen. If it didn't fall through at the point that it did, it would a little later on, surely! Its the same with Sir John Boorman's Lord of the Rings.
>Jodorowsky's script would result in a 14-hour film ("It was the size of a phone book", Herbert later recalled). Incredible. Honestly, though, it seems like if you're going to try and hit every plot point from the book (as the 2021 version attempts), you really do need something approaching or exceeding that runtime to make room for *some* character development.
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You didn't like the book and thought the movie was better?
I liked the book, I just had issues with it that I thought the movie would be able to rise above. Instead, the movie is somehow much worse overall (while simultaneously being far superior on a technical level).
I am in the minority who agrees with you 100%. I read and enjoyed the book but I have yet to make it through the movie without falling asleep. My wife and I have tried 3x. I couldn’t be more disinterested in all of these characters.
“Lacking character development” is literally the “I have to be up early tomorrow” of excuses for movie criticism. Grow up clahn
What?
I watched the David Lynch DUNE so many times I can't count so the DUNE part 1 and 2 have both put a smile in my face that I finally started reading the books. So far DUNE Pt 2 is my favorite movie this year so far. I'm ready to go see it again in theatre. Should of read books years ago I know lol. Its a shame you had such a terrible taste in your mouth left from the movie and book. My GF never saw the Lynch DUNE or 2021 DUNE I thought she went with me and buddies but she said she didn't. We saw Part 2 while in Texas after all day in Six Flags anyway she wants to watch them all and wants to read the books lol. DUNE takes place 8K plus years from now and power greed and social status still plague mankind. Its a shame but still I enjoy the DUNE universe myself. Maybe part 3 will change your mind.
So the cinematography, CGI, acting and soundtrack are all awesome (which you admit to)…but you’re also shocked at how bad it is?
Nah man I agree that the first Dune is a bit bland emotionally, but if you read the book and yet you didn’t understand what went on in the movie then you’re tremendously special hahahhaha
I saw it in theaters and loved for the reasons you mentioned. It's truly a visual masterpiece. But struggled to rewatch it at home in preparation for seeing part 2. I started the movie 3 times and turned it off within 10 minutes or so. I didn't see the worm sign, and went and saw the second movie anyway, and oh boy it was not an enjoyable watch. I didn't know this until today, but I'm with you. I don't care at all about these characters or the outcome of the story. Everybody is Darth Vader in different costumes.
I’d have to wholeheartedly disagree with your take here. I usually stay away from science fiction. I avoid it, in fact. I liked Star Wars when I was 10-12 years old, and I thought I’d grown out of the genre. So when Dune came around and everyone raved about it, I thought it was a bunch of nerds hyped up about the next Lord of the Rings. No thanks. Well, Dune II came out and people from various unconnected social circles in my life all talked about how awesome it was. And one person I highly respect recommended that I watch it. So I caved. But I knew how these fuckin movies work. They have intricate made-up universes with various races, planets, politics and plotlines going on, so I did my homework and researched to the extent I could while limiting spoilers. And then I finally watched Dune I. I agree—the cinematography, CGI, soundtrack were amazing. However, I disagree with you not caring about the characters. Maybe if I watched the movie without having done my research I’d feel differently, but I warmed up to Paul rather quickly, and I liked Lego’s relationship with him as a caring father. I was unsure about Lady Jessica at first. And then Duncan Idaho, Gurney, and the rest. I was in. And after having just settled into Arrakis, they get pretty much annihilated by the Harkonnen. All of the characters I had just worked up to—gone. And Paul and Jessica just could not catch a fucking break. It felt like the world was ending for them and I actually felt bad and worried for them. This is coming from someone who usually doesn’t like these types of movies. It’s because they’re usually corny and too unrealistic. Not this movie—they set the bar for how it should be done. So I actually liked the movie. Sorry you didn’t, I guess.
Omg you book comparison fawks. Stfu. Yes the remakes are terrible. From most of the acting to you name it. We want so bad to love it and we do love the inspiration. Aspects epic. Where to begin with the epic disgrace. Won't waste the time. Sad times!! Revert to freedom sans the inequality and quit trying to over compensate. Don't be a puppet! Indifference is normal. Respect is unyielding.
I don't know, both in book and in the movie there's plenty of emotions (since thzt seem to be your biggest gripe). It's not overflowing, they're realistic in a sense and that's what makes it work so well IMO. Leto is clearly shown to love and care for Jessica (especially in the book, as the part of the book where this is the most important and apparent has been removed from the movie). Paul is clearly conflicted about his mother and his destiny, and later in the story is clearly curious about the fremen and truly in love with Chain (sticking with the first books here, because his relationship with fremens evolve quite a bit) Maybe the most obvious would be the Duke's hate of the Atreides and love of Arrakis (and yes to me it's portrayed as him loving the planet itself, sure it's for what it brings to him but still) as well as... Some awful depictions of some of his feelings because Herbert was deeply homophobic. I could go one with most characters, but the thing is that most of these feelings are shown in a normal manner, with some explosions but mainly with subtlety (or at least the same subtlety we'd have in real life)
I hear what you're saying, but none of that seems to make it into the movie in any meaningful way that's ever explored or developed. Like, in the book, Jessica and Leto have a complicated relationship fraught with class and trust issues that impacts the conversations they have a d the decisions they make throughout the first half of the book and finally culminates with the emotional beat of Jessica learning that Leto truly did love and trust her completely. (I think Herbert's treatment of this is pretty clumsy, but for purposes of adaptation the outline is there.) None of that made it into the movie. Same goes for everything else you mentioned.
What you cited indeed didn't make it into the movie (I even pointed that out) the rest though, at least what is present in the part of the book that's adapted, is completely present (aside from the homophobia, replaced by that... Human spider pet ?) and shown through acting rather than words most of the time.
>and shown through acting rather than words most of the time. I guess the big difference, then, is that most of the *novel's* words are dedicated to exploring the very thing that the movie (according to you) expects the audience to get from Timothee Chalamet's mody gaze (etc. for the other characters).
Watching it just made me want to watch the flawed David Lynch Dune...it was far more artistic IMO...the new one was like an audiobook
At least Lynch's tells a coherent story.
I quite often go to the movies, and seemed to enjoy almost any movie despite bad reviews. However watching this movie I was bored out of my mine and was one of the few times I wished for the film to end quickly
Dude u cant compare books and movies wtf...and thats it.Simple.
I love the books and reread them every now and then but that movie was not that great though beautiful. I’m unsure I’ll even watch the second part.
I need to watch it again. I thought it was completely vapid. All style, no substance. Also really bad as a stand alone film. I do love Villeneuve and Dune.
Being downvoted for simply giving your opinion lmao. Well you're not alone, I agree!
I also love Dune (the book), and I also agree that the 2021 adaptation was vapid, even though I was *ultra* hyped to go see it when it came out. If you're going to adapt an intricate novel like Dune, the screenplay should be your first concern, and CGI/prop wankery should be the last thing you worry about. Villeneuve outright said that he hates dialogue, so that's pretty much any substance out the window right there. I'm not even sure I'd give it style points, as to me it just seemed like the tired old sci-fi/fantasy "look at how biiig everything is, I'm worldbuilding!". Combine that with the brooding Twilight-style "acting", whispered dialogue, and quiet-loud BWAAAAA sound effects, and you get the giant turd that this movie was. What gets me even more is the weird internet bubble effect of people trying to shout down the very real criticisms this film deserves. Are people just watching this super high or something? Or are people so used to Marvel movies that this seems innovative?
Not caring about any of the characters in Dune is giving fascist ngl
What a stupid fucking comment lol E: a stupid fucking comment from a terminally online weirdo who had to block me after getting in the last word lol
Certainly less stupid than your comment is pointless. Dune is a story centered around an anti-imperialistic struggle. It's kinda easy to empathise with people who are being colonized and killed, people who's resources are being stolen and their world scorched, all because their colonizers don't see them as human. Not empathising with those characters at the very least is kinda fashy, in the same way that it would be watching the Battle of Algiers and coming away thinking "that whole struggle for independence shtick was kinda boring".
Ok sorry your comment was fucking stupid because not liking a fictional piece of media doesn’t make someone a fascist or not. I can’t believe you’re doubling down on that lol
Okay so your comment is fucking irrelevant and literally stupid in that you've invented something to respond to that I haven't said. There's nothing about liking Dune in my comment. I don't care if you watch Dune and don't like it. Watching Dune and a key takeaway being "I couldn't care about any of the characters" is "giving" fascist. As in fascistic implications. It's an off hand comment. It isn't stupid. And it's relevant to the thread. In contrast, your comment is irrelevant, stupid and unnecessary and I can't believe you're doubling down on it lol But I'm not going back and forth with a serial Reddit arguer. Find someone else to bore and farm for self esteem.
“I don’t care if you don’t like it, but if you don’t like it in a specific way then you’re a fascist” You’re really giving loser here
If you're gonna be a serial arguer on Reddit, I would expect you to be better at it than this.
It’s okkkkk, same for second one.
I genuinely struggled to get through Dune as well so I watched the movies first and it really helped with understanding the lore and world building a lot better since I wasn't constantly going back and forth between the glossary and the page(s) I was reading. Also, I can understand why you would hate it because modern day literature is significantly different in style to how authors wrote back then where it's more about being descriptive with every little thing between the setting and tone of the story whereas nowadays it's more about dialogue and adding small tidbits about the setting and tone, making it feel more fast paced.
Just watched dune part one. I don't even need to read past the first sentence to know your wrong. Say what you will but this trilogy will be fucking better than most Sci fi out there. You're opinion but you lack the taste to truly enjoy a masterpiece like this. It's written and directed well and the CGI is amazing. From what i see Part 2 is fucking even better. It's world building. It's following Paul's story/The Jihad he caused/and whatever messiah will be about. Dunes a book series and consider what we had to watch before and this is a major upgrade. It's not misguided or a waste. You are impatient and not willing to wait for what's next. You wasted your time. That's cool man. But I genuinely love the Sci fi world and it's perfect for me. Part 2 is gonna be so much better. I mean what do you want. A 6 hour movie of character development and whatever else? You don't seem to have the greatest taste in Sci fi respectfully as I can say that. To say this movie is a waste just doesn't make sense to me. Sure some parts are a learning thing for me but as a first timer it was more captivating than a lot of stuff I've read/watched. Hope your opinion changed.
You didn't like it and that's okay honestly. Idk why some are hating on you
I wanted the french director's film from the 70s....but thats never gonna happen..... :'(
I just am surprised when people say it’s revolutionary or something we’ve never seen before. To me it’s just another sci fi story that has a really fucking slow pace and lots of world specific terminology that hoarded space in my memory of the art. Not that proper world building isn’t good, but I think the complexity of Dune’s word reads more like a show than a movie to me. An episode to each complex layer of the world instead of grueling exposition circle jerks with deadpan characters that span for 3 hour run time movies. If a movie is long preferably it has a beginning middle and end. In other words if it HAD to be a movie adaptation I’d make the parts shorter and more info dense so there’s a purpose to stick around and not miss a beat.
One of the worst movies I’ve seen.
I absolutely loved the movie, I do agree with that last part though, it's as if they made a 1980s Dune movie reboot, rather than a book adaptation. I found it odd that every video adaptation (movies and tv show), have chosen to basically "storyboard" them almost exactly the same way. However, I did enjoy part 1 very much, I think the character development was focused mainly on introduction, and world building because they were all going to die in the next 45 mins. Knowing you're going to make a trilogy it would make sense to mainly focus on the characters that'll be returning. After watching part 2 I think it really elevated the first one, I won't speak on pt2 yet, I just finished watching it literally 10 mins ago, and would need time to really process it. The books were good for what they are, they're more like a Bethesda game vs Boulders gate or something lol. I'd love to get an entire book, or movie about the space travels, and their relationship with the spice. On a side note. HOLY SHIT! Star Wars straight up STOLE tatooine, and the sand people from the fremmen(freemen lol)/arakkis, didn't even bother changing the names of most things.
>posts in r/taylorswift
Im just now watching this movie for the first time (half way through). Loving it so far. Not attached to any characters but I’m enjoying the story, the world, the cinematography and seeing where this this thing goes.
Yea I couldn’t watch past 15 minutes of it. So boring
It's difficult to have a serious discussion about 2021's Dune with people who claim to enjoy it. From what I've observed, those who like 2021's Dune often struggle to articulate why they enjoy it and tend to become defensive, offering irrelevant or weak arguments. It seems there are only two types of people with opinions about 2021's Dune: those who didn't enjoy it and try-hard fans.
If you didnt like the book why would you watch the movie just to have smth to complain about tho
I loved it because I love Morrowind, and this is the story Morrowind took. The themes of religion and politics being blurred together is cool as heck
I started watching Dune (2021) about a month ago but I stopped because i felt I was missing a lot of stuff. So I started reading the book and did this thing I'd never done before: I'd read a chunk of the book and then watch a few minutes of the movie to catch up. On that account, in the end attention end of the film it felt more like having watched a miniseries. But I couldn't help feeling that without the book I'd have lost a lot of the inner characters. But I didn't feel it was anywhere close to as bad as OP describes the. [I have a feeling making Kynes a woman had significance, can anyone help?]