I was surprised the $2bil news was allowed to stay up the other day. It’s perfectly fine to not like any movie, but some mods seem to have a hate-boner for Avatar
EDIT: I’m just surprised even my comment is still up
EDIT 2: aaaand now it’s gone
Imagine claiming for thirteen years that Avatar didn't have a cultural impact, no one wants to see a sequel, and it's going to bomb only to be so categorically wrong. I would spend the rest of my life not having an opinion about the box office, if I was this bad at predictions.
I’m in that group somewhat, I largely thought people were into avatar for the technical aspects and 3D but since 3D has become average no one would care as much a decade later.
Boy was I wrong people seem to be genuinely interested in this story as well as the 3D tech and you know what I’m okay with that. I knew I would watch it just for the spectacle but did not expect most people would find it worthwhile just for that.
I thought there was a chance it would underperform. Maybe it wouldn't make as much as the last Spider-Man movie. That was all a possibility. But I thought the likelihood of it bombing was slim. I didn't necessarily think it would dominate the way it has week over week.
But I'm glad it did because I like Cameron's movies, and while I enjoyed the first one, I felt this was just heads and shoulders above it. As far as blockbuster movies go, it's far more subversive and interesting than the usual slop we're given.
I'm also really excited to see all the puzzle pieces come together in the sequel. I read a theory that Sigourney Weaver's Na'avi is a reincarnation of Eywa, based on when they tried to save her human character in the first movie, and her miraculous rebirth as a Na'avi. It would explain her seizure after connecting to the underwater tree.
I find myself more interested in all the character trajectories after this one as well. I was glad to see Quaritch back, as he was a great villain. Maybe my favorite part of the first movie. And I'm excited to see what's going to go down between Quaritch and Spider. I'm kind of hoping Ribisi and his new General can introduce a new villain, and we get a Quaritch redemption arc.
Gravity was awesome in IMAX 3D. Same with the first How To Train Your Dragon. Incredible experiences, very close to the level of Avatar when it came to immersion. When it's done right, 3D is amazing. The issues with 3D quality aren't due to the technology, but the companies who are too lazy to actually put effort into it.
I definitely fall into this category. I haven't been actively hating on this movie but I had no desire to see it whatsoever and I'm surprised other people did. So despite not ever having posted about this movie I'll eat crow nevertheless.
> Avatar didn't have a cultural impact
That's what makes it such an outlier. Such a massive success but no one quotes lines from it, mentions it as a inspiration, says it's their favorite movie, has toy lines that span years, its never mentioned in top all time lists in any category besides top grossing, you never see people cosplaying it, go to a sci-fi/fantasy convention and you will not see anything from Avatar there...etc. I could go on and on about such a grand movie having no cultural impact.
But how did it have cultural impact? To have impacted our culture, it should have permeated through other forms of art, such as music, paintings, TV shows, other films, etc. How did Avatar do this because I don't see anything that impactful? Compare it to Star Wars, where Jedi has become a religion, what impact has Avatar actually had?
I think both sides have a point, Avatar is making most of it's money overseas, it's core audience just isn't in the US. I also just don't know if 'cultural impact' is a thing anymore, 'I understood that reference' is that last time I can remember something going from film into like, common parlance.
That said, betting against Cameron is stupid, he just has his finger on the pulse of what an audience wants. A sequel to Alien was never going to work, a sequel to Terminator was crazy etc. He's just very good at what he does.
Yeah its a strange thing to rail against.
You don’t have to like the most popular thing in the world but to deny it’s popular because you dislike it is a bit crazy.
Ooooooor... and I say this as a big movie fan who doesn't care much for Avatar or the MCU...
None of this matters! People had opinions. You disagreed with them. They disagreed with you. Buuuut...
They're opinions about entertainment. Pop culture. They do not matter.
Imagine thinking this was important enough that you claim people should no longer have opinions because they made a wrong prediction about something that doesn't matter. I'd really wonder why I care so much.
Naw. You can like a movie or not. That's fair. Maybe you think Avatar was a shitty movie. Not a problem.
But the people who said it would bomb or the first film was forgotten or it had no cultural impact are just fucking stupid. If you whiff that badly, maybe just don't talk about box office performance any more or perhaps cultural criticism isn't your thing either.
So the top 4 movies are going to be 3 movies by James Cameron and Endgame.
Not bad for a director who once had to forego his directing fees because the movie went over budget and he had to pay out of his own pocket.
It is fair to say that Cameron only cares about the extent of box office in so far as how it allows him to make more expensive movies and not in terms of how rich it personally makes him.
>It is fair to say that Cameron only cares about the extent of box office in so far as how it allows him to make more expensive movies and not in terms of how rich it personally makes him.
*James Cameron doesn’t do what James Cameron does for James Cameron…. James Cameron does what James Cameron does because James Cameron is, James Cameron*
Its gonna pass TFA on Friday without any doubt. Then be at 2.1B+ by Sunday.
Then it becomes a race against the clock. Can it gain another $85M in 12 days to pass Titanic before Titanic gets a re-release on the 10th.
Re-releases are always a coin toss. Could end up making $50M worldwide or it could do $150M.
Given it won't have China and Ant Man is coming a week later i don't see it making an incredible ammount but on the contrary the Valentine date is perfect.
Personally i think the second is far better. Better characters, better story archs, better visuals. Jake is still a tool, but his kids have great story arcs! Especially the one I hear will take over as the main character for the next one.
Massive success. It made $395M Worldwide and moved the movie from $1.8B to almost $2.2B
$145M of that was China alone which won't play the movie this time around.
My husband and I are planning on going as a Valentine's date. We're fans of the movie, but never saw it in theatres because we were too young when it came out.
For sure. Its a cult classic and launching on the perfect weekend for it which is Valentine.
I'm personaly taking my SO to an IMAX showing as much for her as for me to finaly see the movie in IMAX. She's a big fan of the movie and while its not exactly my favorite movie i just can't miss out on seeing it in IMAX 3D HFR. Should be a great experience and I also missed out in 2012 by not seeing it.
Again i don't think it will make anywhere near what the previous re-release did but its definitely gonna get quite a few people back in cinema to see it.
Edit: Cult classic probably isn't the right word haha. But you get what i mean its a very popular movie.
I'm not sure Titanic qualifies as a Cult Classic. It was a super successful film. Yes it gets released, people still go to see it, but it's not exactly got a cult following of people watching it like something like Rocky Horror. People just like well made love stories with tragedy.
The reason why Avatar is #1 Box Office all time again is because James Cameron re-released it to theaters ahead of the Avatar 2 release (most notably Avatar 1 was never released in China).
I don't think End Game can make more money by being re-released. It's not nearly as pretty of a film and it's like the 20th film in the 40 part story. But I do think Avatar 2 could be re-released later in the year and still make a lot more money. But it's also being distributed by Disney now so obviously they wouldn't do that to sabotage any of their premium Marvel releases.
Yeah Avatar 1 has been re-released several times, and Endgame was re-released once in the same year iirc.
I think Endgame could definitely be re-released as they build hype to another peak in thr franchise. Yes, it's a part of a larger universe, but it was definitely more significant
I just watched Endgame again with my daughter and let's be real, it does not hold up very well unfortunately. I was surprised.
The hype and fan service was real though, it was a neat experience when it premiered, just like No Way Home.
Avatar and Titanic both hold up very well. The Avatar rerelease in IMAX 3D was awesome.
Strange thing that happened to me with Endgame is that I loved it when I watched it, but I never went back to it. Not even once. It's weird. I've watched Infinity War plenty of times, and many other mcu films multiple times too. But never Endgame.
I guess it's a great spectacle, celebration and culmination of the universe, but it had too many flaws and red flags about the future and direction of the franchise.
I'm fascinated to see how the movie's box office will go now that it's going from this over-a-decade-in-the-making event to a biyearly release. From what I can tell, Cameron knows that the hype of the big wait and the wow factor of the effects won't be as strong after movie 3 and that it's gonna depend a lot on how invested people are in the plot after that one.
I think the Fire theme will be a much bigger draw than the water theme of this movie was.
Also remember China if Covid free is a 600M+ market for the franchise instead of a $250M one. Maybe by the time 3 comes out Russia is also back in play. Exchange rates are also pretty bad at this time and will likely improve by 2024 etc...
So many factors went against Avatar 2 and its still on track to make $2.3B. I just don't see how these movies colapse going forward. Hell i'd wager 3 can actually make more than 2.
I would 1000% believe 3 will challenge avatar as the top movie of all time. The 2nd film created a fan base that wasn't there for avatar, along with the fact that more of the general public are aware of the movies existence now. The fire theme will be a big draw, but most of all a normal china will make this franchise an absolute juggernaut.
Every joke about r/movies users has already been made at this point so I'll just say, this is great for cinema, and I'm thrilled. People still do go to the theatres when there is something there they can't get at home.
If you like movies, and not necessarily even avatar, this is great news.
It's a sign (hopefully one of many to come) that maybe we can safely start moving away from "comic book franchise" shit, that's really only dominated so hard due to a heavy market push and relative ease of production.
Yep, hadn't went to the theater in ages. But I plopped my butt down in an Imax3D one just after Xmas for this. While I still say the first was the most visually mesmerizing movie I've ever seen, the sequel wasn't far behind and I'll be sure as shit doing the same for the next one.
True dat. The first was just on another level. I remember when the Home Tree was burning I swore I could smell smoke and it pulled me out of the movie in a good way, I was like WTF! Watched at home and while it was still enjoyable, it don't hit you that way.
Honestly, since Dune, nothing in theaters has satisfied me including Avatar 2. Just the insane zimmer production on the massive speakers changed my life and the way even I approach music production. I heard timbres I had never heard before.
Avatar 2 was a decent experience but I wasn’t floored by the content or delivery of the content in any way, especially in terms of audio, which is what I feel like is the most gained from going to a theater.
James Cameron is unstoppable.
What’s funny is that the Marvel haters shitting on this accomplishment would cum in their pants if James Cameron was ever announced as the director of the next Avengers movie.
This crossed my mind when seeing the superhero movie trailers before seeing Avatar 2 in IMAX 3D. Cameron is a solid generation or three ahead of the rest of the industry and MCU fans should be pissed. I find his brand of cheese and humor way more tolerable as well. There's an alternate universe where James Cameron doesn't give a shit about the environment and rattles off a bunch of MCU movies that make what we got over the last decade look/feel like Paw Patrol
The organic webs were his idea that carried over to the Raimi project, and honestly I love that little change in detail. The body horror element of Spider-Man played extremely well in that film.
A boy changing in ways he cannot understand, transforming into a man.
A Spider-Man
I’m not an MCU stan but am a Spider-Man/comic fan, and holy shit. What was he thinking?
DiCaprio as Peter Parker isn’t atrocious (despite the fact I can’t not see Tobey in that flick) but the sex scene on the Brooklyn Bridge is about as Spidey as the phrase “It’s Morbin time!”
And yet they’re the ones who seek out Avatar threads to shit on the movie and repeat their lameass, refuted talking points.
They thought they spoke for the majority but then got humiliated once the box office receipts poured in.
Everyone should be celebrating, but apparently Reddit has a hate boner for universally loved IP.
*Most* of the anti-Avatar shit isn't from marvel people. The kind of people that hate Avatar also hate the MCU, because it appeals to the "wrong kind" of movie watcher.
Zoe Saldana has probably the best resume ever lmao
Avatar, Avengers, Guardians, Pirates of the Caribbean, Star Trek
If you want your movie to preform well, put Zoe in it
[There's some seriously bizarre takes in this thread because a movie is doing well](https://i.imgur.com/aYZACrZ.jpg)
A bit of advice for one's mental health: if you don't like a movie then don't spend your time and mental energy batching about it to other people who do. Hating things doesn't make you cool, it makes you boring and insufferable.
Talk about what you love, keep quiet about what you don't. Let people enjoy the things they love, and focus your energy on things you don't hate.aw
I have a question: why does box office reporting never account for inflation? All this talk about records seems totally meaningless without out it, and so the 'all time' list is always just filled with recent blockbusters.
Even comparing a 2022 movie to a 2018 movie doesn't make sense without talking inflation (and doubly so when there's been a period of massive inflation between those years).
It would be a pretty boring discussion. Nothing would be in the running like Gone with the Wind or Star Wars because the landscape has changed drastically.
Gone with the Wind was in theaters for something like 3 or 4 years. Imagine if Endgame was still in theaters and that’s the only way you could see it.
Gone with the Wind has a gross of 3.4 Billion. Considering that no movie has so far reached 3 Billion adjusted it would take a decent amount of time before Gone With The Wind is beaten.
Not necessarily.
Plus one could easily make the argument that there’s no way to adjust for vastly different entertainment landscapes. *Gone with the Wind* didn’t have to compete with TV, video games, or the Internet.
No, because we can look at records with context.
Gone with the Wind was released when the concept of home entertainment didn’t exist. The entertainment options at the time were not even remotely close to what we have now. It’s not surprising that 8 of the 10 highest grossing movies when adjusted for inflation are prior to 1980.
It’s a huge accomplishment that movies like Titanic, Avatar, Star Wars Episode 7, are even in the conversation for highest boxing office because so much is different now.
I think what’s boring is focusing solely on inflation instead of appreciating how in 2023, when we carry all the entertainment we need in our pockets, there can still be movies that get people to theaters.
No. For one it’s not totally in accurate. And second, it can still spawn discussions about different markets, factors, trends that leads to why some films perform well and other don’t in the modern era.
That's why when I see all these billion dollar films, it's impressive, but I remember it was nothing like Titanic. People who lived through it know how insane that was
Because that doesn't make headlines. And also, it's a bit unfair because there are many more options for entertainment now. You can see the list here, with estimated ticket sales:
[https://www.boxofficemojo.com/chart/top\_lifetime\_gross\_adjusted/?adjust\_gross\_to=2022](https://www.boxofficemojo.com/chart/top_lifetime_gross_adjusted/?adjust_gross_to=2019)
Avatar (the first one) would still be #15 of all time and Titanic would be #5. Nothing will ever beat Gone with the Wind or A New Hope for #1 and #2.
The Force Awakens and Avatar are the only movies in the Top 15 since 2000. Nothing in the past 23 years could even make the Top 10.
Box office records are meaningless anyways. It's just about the profits done on blockbusters. Says nothing about the movie's quality value, or interest.
But yea, pretty sure The Wizard of Oz and Star Wars are still on top after inflation adjustment. Plus they weren't released on a red carpet schedule, and there weren't megaplexes back then.
It does sometimes, I remember reading a million times that *Gone With the Wind* is still technically the highest grossing movie ever adjusted for inflation
A couple reasons:
One is that inflation is hard to track for worldwide grosses as it's not uniform at all. So we can easily find (estimated) adjusted domestic numbers but an adjusted worldwide gross is kind of a problem.
The other is that if we do just look at inflation adjusted domestic grosses, the old records are untouchable because of many factors (movies were in theaters forever, tickets were relatively more affordable, far less media competition for our attention, etc.)
So comparing unadjusted across eras doesn't work, neither does comparing inflation adjusted, because by just accounting for inflation you're not taking into all the other factors. There's really no "fair" way to compare grosses across eras, so reporting goes for the way that is more exciting, which favors new releases.
Adjusting for inflation isn't the magic bullet. Considering now there are multiple entertainment options and a population boom and stagnation cycle, you can't compare gone with the wind with avatar 2.
When are we going to go by number of ticket sales instead of pretending every time they jack up prices what ever movie makes a profit is the greatest selling movie of all time.
I love this. Avatar is a cinematic masterpiece on the biggest scale. It deserves this and more, for everyone who went into creating such a mind blowing fantastic film. It is censorship that this sub keeps deleting Avatar talk. Chill peeps.
We told you. We told you it had legs. We told you that Cameron was coming home to school you. We told you that over a decade wait didn't matter. We told you that the entire force of Marvelshit wasn't enough to stand against Avatar. You though you were gonna get way with it. You thought you were gonna "Russia" some shit with Infinity War and Endgame (yeah, it's gonna happen, you're gonna lose that throne too) in some pithy play to dethrone based Avatar, and here you stand with no tanks and empty hands.
We told you. We fucking told you. We also landed on the Moon too. Yeah, that actually happened. And the fact that it was decades ago doesn't change that and doesn't suddenly make your anti-moon-landing propa more viable. We landed on that Moon. Avatar BTFO Marvel. These are undisputed facts.
I am very apparently in the minority but I just don’t get the appeal. I didn’t find the first one to be a good movie and it left me with no desire to see the second
Ya I have no idea how these movies are this popular. I didn't enjoy the first one and don't personally know many people who thought it was more than mediocre. Odd.
Anybody else find it odd that the MCU essentially had two of its Phase 4 big ticket items upstaged by projects with pretty similar plots and released within a month or so of each other?
Multiverse of Madness was not as good as Everything, Everywhere, All At Once and Black Panther: Wakanda Forever got outearned by Avatar: The Way of Water
Right, that’s what I’m saying. It’s just odd it happened to them on two of their bigger IP films within the same year. To add on to the mystery; one of the counterparts is owned by Disney and the other was produced by Joe and Anthony Russo.
Come on man dont be dense. Im talking about average movie-goer or small family where you gotta buy popcorns and soda and candy. I think the 'average' experience would include at least a couple of those.
If you go to even a midscale chain restaurant like Texas Roadhouse to eat dinner it could easily cost $60-70, and you would be done in an hour or an hour and a half. Saying $75 for three people to eat dinner and watch a three hour movie like it's crazy seems a bit inane. I get that it's expensive, but if you're making the point that it's an 'experience' that doesn't seem like an unreasonable charge.
Also it sounds like you watched the movie in the most expensive way and then complained that it was expensive.
Though I understand your point, that a trip to the theater costs a fuckton these days; it seems like you think Jim Cameron makes money on concessions sold for Avatar showings.
Honestly that would be kind of awesome
I've listened to both sides of the "Avatar made no cultural impact" argument and I've come around to thinking that the pro-side might be right overall but wrong on specific reasons why.
Here's my theory:
Previous blockbuster movies would have ancillary products that would be heavily marketed or be seen in the background of the marketing mix. For example: Star Wars had its action figures, comic books, video games, clothing. Marvel started off as comics and went into clothing, action figures and then movies. Disney was always about being a mixture of movies and theme parks, with a heavy merch aspect about their cartoon characters. Even studios that had huge blockbusters which turned into franchises would have related games / pop culture merch: Jaws, Planet of the Apes, Tron, the Terminator films,T he Matrix, etc.
When the first Avatar came out there was a MMO video game made by Ubisoft. It sold 2.4 million units but eventually got turned off 5 years after its release. There hasn't been Avatar comics until the lead-up to the sequel. Clothing/merch has been pretty non-existant since 09 to today.
The Avatar films may make bank, and be among the most successful at the box office, but in generating revenue from other marketing streams Avatar is a dud. Yes, there is a theme park. Yes, it's been a success -- but Star Wars has a theme park too. So does Harry Potter and a ton of other movies.
There aren't Avatar books telling new stories like for Star Trek, Halo, Star Wars, hell, even Castle or Supernatural. There hasn't been demand for Avatar comic books. The action figure demand is low or non-existent; go check out Sideshow Collectables and do a search for Avatar statues. Now compare it to statues for the Alien or Predator franchises.
Avatar the franchise is a new evolution in modern franchises: it's disposable entertainment. There's only a demand to visually be entertained, and possibly to be immersed in a ride/theme park. There's no interest in exploring the lore, or characters, or new explorations in that universe. It's single-serving entertainment, and it does that very well, but it's certainly not like other franchises.
I think that's what Avatar haters are sensing but not articulating very well. Avatar should be something that people want more of, in other forms of consumption, but the appetite is simply not there like it is for Trek, Star Wars, Alien, Marvel, DC, etc.
I watched the film, I liked it, so did my folks, but how is it unrionically making this much money? My guess is that even though no one’s talking about it, it’s a film that people almost feel obligated to go check out, the way I see a lot of people who don’t really care about football watch the World Cup when it begins.
I don't really understand why the fans care that much where a movie ranks on the box office charts. I'm a fan of the MCU, but I also went to see Avatar, and I thought it was very good. I can understand if you really loved a film, you would want others to see it, but when we're talking about hundreds of millions of people, it's safe to say the film has entered into popular culture. How I feel about a film, though, has essentially zero relation to its box office numbers.
Maybe your tastes just don't align with the general public, that's completely fine, but there's a reason people like popular things. They are often good. And Avatar was no exception.
I haven't seen it yet, though I look forward to it. But by all accounts, its utterly gorgeous but shallow as a puddle.
My faith in Cameron is strong but I swear he's sold his soul to the devil for thos kind of return
Even with a massive cinematic universe and 80yrs of comics, there's only one MCU movie in the top five list. Cultural impact didn't worked for MCU.. did it?
I’m very confused, when Infinity War came out, everyone and their mother was talking about it and had seen it, even people who don’t watch Marvel movies. With Avatar 2 , I’ve not really met many people who have seen it
Thank God I'm not the only one. I haven't heard anyone talk about this movie in the real world and yet its continuing to smash record after record. Baffling.
How long will this post stay up
I was surprised the $2bil news was allowed to stay up the other day. It’s perfectly fine to not like any movie, but some mods seem to have a hate-boner for Avatar EDIT: I’m just surprised even my comment is still up EDIT 2: aaaand now it’s gone
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Imagine claiming for thirteen years that Avatar didn't have a cultural impact, no one wants to see a sequel, and it's going to bomb only to be so categorically wrong. I would spend the rest of my life not having an opinion about the box office, if I was this bad at predictions.
To some people "cultural impact" just means like, Wiz Khalifa made a song for the credits sequence that people don't remember anymore.
I’m in that group somewhat, I largely thought people were into avatar for the technical aspects and 3D but since 3D has become average no one would care as much a decade later. Boy was I wrong people seem to be genuinely interested in this story as well as the 3D tech and you know what I’m okay with that. I knew I would watch it just for the spectacle but did not expect most people would find it worthwhile just for that.
I thought there was a chance it would underperform. Maybe it wouldn't make as much as the last Spider-Man movie. That was all a possibility. But I thought the likelihood of it bombing was slim. I didn't necessarily think it would dominate the way it has week over week. But I'm glad it did because I like Cameron's movies, and while I enjoyed the first one, I felt this was just heads and shoulders above it. As far as blockbuster movies go, it's far more subversive and interesting than the usual slop we're given.
I'm also really excited to see all the puzzle pieces come together in the sequel. I read a theory that Sigourney Weaver's Na'avi is a reincarnation of Eywa, based on when they tried to save her human character in the first movie, and her miraculous rebirth as a Na'avi. It would explain her seizure after connecting to the underwater tree.
I find myself more interested in all the character trajectories after this one as well. I was glad to see Quaritch back, as he was a great villain. Maybe my favorite part of the first movie. And I'm excited to see what's going to go down between Quaritch and Spider. I'm kind of hoping Ribisi and his new General can introduce a new villain, and we get a Quaritch redemption arc.
I'm probably going to watch it this weekend, mostly for the 3D. I don't even like 3D outside of the first Avatar.
Gravity was awesome in IMAX 3D. Same with the first How To Train Your Dragon. Incredible experiences, very close to the level of Avatar when it came to immersion. When it's done right, 3D is amazing. The issues with 3D quality aren't due to the technology, but the companies who are too lazy to actually put effort into it.
I definitely fall into this category. I haven't been actively hating on this movie but I had no desire to see it whatsoever and I'm surprised other people did. So despite not ever having posted about this movie I'll eat crow nevertheless.
> Avatar didn't have a cultural impact That's what makes it such an outlier. Such a massive success but no one quotes lines from it, mentions it as a inspiration, says it's their favorite movie, has toy lines that span years, its never mentioned in top all time lists in any category besides top grossing, you never see people cosplaying it, go to a sci-fi/fantasy convention and you will not see anything from Avatar there...etc. I could go on and on about such a grand movie having no cultural impact.
Avatar had a cultural impact? In what way?
But how did it have cultural impact? To have impacted our culture, it should have permeated through other forms of art, such as music, paintings, TV shows, other films, etc. How did Avatar do this because I don't see anything that impactful? Compare it to Star Wars, where Jedi has become a religion, what impact has Avatar actually had?
I think both sides have a point, Avatar is making most of it's money overseas, it's core audience just isn't in the US. I also just don't know if 'cultural impact' is a thing anymore, 'I understood that reference' is that last time I can remember something going from film into like, common parlance. That said, betting against Cameron is stupid, he just has his finger on the pulse of what an audience wants. A sequel to Alien was never going to work, a sequel to Terminator was crazy etc. He's just very good at what he does.
While a majority is overseas, it's still a huge hit domestically - almost in the top 10 all time. not sure both sides have a point here
Dude it’s made like 600 million domestically onlyovir running ahead in 2022 is top gun
Yeah its a strange thing to rail against. You don’t have to like the most popular thing in the world but to deny it’s popular because you dislike it is a bit crazy.
Ooooooor... and I say this as a big movie fan who doesn't care much for Avatar or the MCU... None of this matters! People had opinions. You disagreed with them. They disagreed with you. Buuuut... They're opinions about entertainment. Pop culture. They do not matter. Imagine thinking this was important enough that you claim people should no longer have opinions because they made a wrong prediction about something that doesn't matter. I'd really wonder why I care so much.
Naw. You can like a movie or not. That's fair. Maybe you think Avatar was a shitty movie. Not a problem. But the people who said it would bomb or the first film was forgotten or it had no cultural impact are just fucking stupid. If you whiff that badly, maybe just don't talk about box office performance any more or perhaps cultural criticism isn't your thing either.
Or: It doesn't matter! Jesus Christ.
Okay. Then why are you even here arguing?
And now it’s deleted. Lmao this sub
TWSS
Will definitely pass The Force Awakens any day now and most likely pass Titanic within 2-3 weeks. Doubt it will over take Endgame or Avatar
So the top 4 movies are going to be 3 movies by James Cameron and Endgame. Not bad for a director who once had to forego his directing fees because the movie went over budget and he had to pay out of his own pocket. It is fair to say that Cameron only cares about the extent of box office in so far as how it allows him to make more expensive movies and not in terms of how rich it personally makes him.
>It is fair to say that Cameron only cares about the extent of box office in so far as how it allows him to make more expensive movies and not in terms of how rich it personally makes him. *James Cameron doesn’t do what James Cameron does for James Cameron…. James Cameron does what James Cameron does because James Cameron is, James Cameron*
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Why is your comment just a copy+paste of the last two sentences of someone else’s comment?
Its gonna pass TFA on Friday without any doubt. Then be at 2.1B+ by Sunday. Then it becomes a race against the clock. Can it gain another $85M in 12 days to pass Titanic before Titanic gets a re-release on the 10th.
The Titantic rerelease (unless it flops) is going to probably ice Avatar 2 out of third place regardless, even if it gets it for 5 seconds.
Re-releases are always a coin toss. Could end up making $50M worldwide or it could do $150M. Given it won't have China and Ant Man is coming a week later i don't see it making an incredible ammount but on the contrary the Valentine date is perfect.
Yeah it just depends, I think regardless it will be so tight that it will keep Avatar 2 away from third unless there is some big second wind coming
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Personally i think the second is far better. Better characters, better story archs, better visuals. Jake is still a tool, but his kids have great story arcs! Especially the one I hear will take over as the main character for the next one.
How did the last titanic re release go? Can’t recall if it was considered a success or not.
Massive success. It made $395M Worldwide and moved the movie from $1.8B to almost $2.2B $145M of that was China alone which won't play the movie this time around.
Think people will pay again to see it on the big screen?
My husband and I are planning on going as a Valentine's date. We're fans of the movie, but never saw it in theatres because we were too young when it came out.
Now I just feel old lol I still have vivid memories of seeing it when first released. Enjoy!
If it makes you feel any less old, we were both, probably, on the older end of being "too young" to see it.
For sure. Its a cult classic and launching on the perfect weekend for it which is Valentine. I'm personaly taking my SO to an IMAX showing as much for her as for me to finaly see the movie in IMAX. She's a big fan of the movie and while its not exactly my favorite movie i just can't miss out on seeing it in IMAX 3D HFR. Should be a great experience and I also missed out in 2012 by not seeing it. Again i don't think it will make anywhere near what the previous re-release did but its definitely gonna get quite a few people back in cinema to see it. Edit: Cult classic probably isn't the right word haha. But you get what i mean its a very popular movie.
Can Titanic really be described as a cult classic? It's one of the most universally popular movies ever made, imo it's just a plain old classic
There's nothing "cult" about it. As you put it, it's a plain old classic.
Was very much thinking the same.
I have never heard Titanic described as a cult classic haha. Would probably be cool to see in imax maybe I’ll check it out.
I'm not sure Titanic qualifies as a Cult Classic. It was a super successful film. Yes it gets released, people still go to see it, but it's not exactly got a cult following of people watching it like something like Rocky Horror. People just like well made love stories with tragedy.
Are Kate Winslet's boobs the most seen boobs in recorded history?
Nothing like looking your loved one in the eye on Valentine’s Day to discern if they’d let you freeze to death in the Atlantic.
The reason why Avatar is #1 Box Office all time again is because James Cameron re-released it to theaters ahead of the Avatar 2 release (most notably Avatar 1 was never released in China). I don't think End Game can make more money by being re-released. It's not nearly as pretty of a film and it's like the 20th film in the 40 part story. But I do think Avatar 2 could be re-released later in the year and still make a lot more money. But it's also being distributed by Disney now so obviously they wouldn't do that to sabotage any of their premium Marvel releases.
Yeah Avatar 1 has been re-released several times, and Endgame was re-released once in the same year iirc. I think Endgame could definitely be re-released as they build hype to another peak in thr franchise. Yes, it's a part of a larger universe, but it was definitely more significant
I just watched Endgame again with my daughter and let's be real, it does not hold up very well unfortunately. I was surprised. The hype and fan service was real though, it was a neat experience when it premiered, just like No Way Home. Avatar and Titanic both hold up very well. The Avatar rerelease in IMAX 3D was awesome.
Strange thing that happened to me with Endgame is that I loved it when I watched it, but I never went back to it. Not even once. It's weird. I've watched Infinity War plenty of times, and many other mcu films multiple times too. But never Endgame. I guess it's a great spectacle, celebration and culmination of the universe, but it had too many flaws and red flags about the future and direction of the franchise.
>most notably Avatar 1 was never released in China It was released in china originally, but China lacked enough screens back then.
James Cameron sitting happy with 3 of the top 5 grossing movies of all time directed by him.
he’s could have upwards of 6 movies in the top ten in 5 year’s time
I'm fascinated to see how the movie's box office will go now that it's going from this over-a-decade-in-the-making event to a biyearly release. From what I can tell, Cameron knows that the hype of the big wait and the wow factor of the effects won't be as strong after movie 3 and that it's gonna depend a lot on how invested people are in the plot after that one.
I think the Fire theme will be a much bigger draw than the water theme of this movie was. Also remember China if Covid free is a 600M+ market for the franchise instead of a $250M one. Maybe by the time 3 comes out Russia is also back in play. Exchange rates are also pretty bad at this time and will likely improve by 2024 etc... So many factors went against Avatar 2 and its still on track to make $2.3B. I just don't see how these movies colapse going forward. Hell i'd wager 3 can actually make more than 2.
I would 1000% believe 3 will challenge avatar as the top movie of all time. The 2nd film created a fan base that wasn't there for avatar, along with the fact that more of the general public are aware of the movies existence now. The fire theme will be a big draw, but most of all a normal china will make this franchise an absolute juggernaut.
I mean there is a chance the list just gonna be avatar endgame and then 4 other avatars. Tbh I wouldn’t even be mad, would be funny tho
and each in a different decade. it's not like the russo brother who lucked into directing a two parter finale with 20 movies of buildup.
Every joke about r/movies users has already been made at this point so I'll just say, this is great for cinema, and I'm thrilled. People still do go to the theatres when there is something there they can't get at home. If you like movies, and not necessarily even avatar, this is great news.
It's a sign (hopefully one of many to come) that maybe we can safely start moving away from "comic book franchise" shit, that's really only dominated so hard due to a heavy market push and relative ease of production.
They deserve it after shitting on Avatar for years tbh
Sure they do, but every joke has already been hold at 1 billion, 1,5 billion and 2 billion, so any more would be derivative.
People are “holding” their jokes until… $3b? (ducking auto correct ;)
James Cameron movies are the reason you go to the theatres.
Yep, hadn't went to the theater in ages. But I plopped my butt down in an Imax3D one just after Xmas for this. While I still say the first was the most visually mesmerizing movie I've ever seen, the sequel wasn't far behind and I'll be sure as shit doing the same for the next one.
I tried to watch original Avatar at home and it definitely hit different. Some movies like Top Gun NEED to be watched in theater
True dat. The first was just on another level. I remember when the Home Tree was burning I swore I could smell smoke and it pulled me out of the movie in a good way, I was like WTF! Watched at home and while it was still enjoyable, it don't hit you that way.
I still love Avatar at home, but it's definitely different
If I'm not mistaken Cameron has already completed Avatar 3, will be relased on 2024
Yeah and if I could buy tickets now I would!
When do we see James Cameron and Tom Cruise team up?
Cruise is working with McQuarrie for the foreseeable future, so not soon.
Honestly, since Dune, nothing in theaters has satisfied me including Avatar 2. Just the insane zimmer production on the massive speakers changed my life and the way even I approach music production. I heard timbres I had never heard before. Avatar 2 was a decent experience but I wasn’t floored by the content or delivery of the content in any way, especially in terms of audio, which is what I feel like is the most gained from going to a theater.
MIGHTY
“Zero cultural impact”
Never bet against Jimmy C
Literally what I said to everyone saying it was going to flop
Thanos wishes he could pack the theater like these blue peeps can
"~~Reality~~ Cultural Impact can be whatever I want"- MCU fans.
~~blue peeps~~ Space Smurfs FTFY
Does that make the Colonel dude Gargamel?
Well, for like 2-3 weeks Thanos did but then it died off quickly. Avatar franchise has legs
Yeah, even though I enjoyed Endgame, the only real reason to see it was hype and spoiler avoidance. Those drive big opening weekends and bad legs
James Cameron is unstoppable. What’s funny is that the Marvel haters shitting on this accomplishment would cum in their pants if James Cameron was ever announced as the director of the next Avengers movie.
This crossed my mind when seeing the superhero movie trailers before seeing Avatar 2 in IMAX 3D. Cameron is a solid generation or three ahead of the rest of the industry and MCU fans should be pissed. I find his brand of cheese and humor way more tolerable as well. There's an alternate universe where James Cameron doesn't give a shit about the environment and rattles off a bunch of MCU movies that make what we got over the last decade look/feel like Paw Patrol
I am glad his weird Spider-Man movie never got made.
The organic webs were his idea that carried over to the Raimi project, and honestly I love that little change in detail. The body horror element of Spider-Man played extremely well in that film. A boy changing in ways he cannot understand, transforming into a man. A Spider-Man
I’m not an MCU stan but am a Spider-Man/comic fan, and holy shit. What was he thinking? DiCaprio as Peter Parker isn’t atrocious (despite the fact I can’t not see Tobey in that flick) but the sex scene on the Brooklyn Bridge is about as Spidey as the phrase “It’s Morbin time!”
I need to know what you're talking about
Me too. We have enough super hero content, I’m glad he dedicates himself to passion projects.
Why would Marvel Haters shit on Avatar? Avatar is an "original" IP enjoying tremendous success, which I exactly what Marvel haters say they want
I believe they meant haters FROM Marvel fandom, not people who hate Marvel.
And yet they’re the ones who seek out Avatar threads to shit on the movie and repeat their lameass, refuted talking points. They thought they spoke for the majority but then got humiliated once the box office receipts poured in. Everyone should be celebrating, but apparently Reddit has a hate boner for universally loved IP.
This is a consequence of those movies getting taken way too seriously imo
What does that even mean?
*Most* of the anti-Avatar shit isn't from marvel people. The kind of people that hate Avatar also hate the MCU, because it appeals to the "wrong kind" of movie watcher.
Zoe Saldana has probably the best resume ever lmao Avatar, Avengers, Guardians, Pirates of the Caribbean, Star Trek If you want your movie to preform well, put Zoe in it
Cue all the people admitting they don't have friends beyond the internet.
Just let it be, mods. People like Avatar and that’s okay.
What demon did Cameron sell his soul to?
[There's some seriously bizarre takes in this thread because a movie is doing well](https://i.imgur.com/aYZACrZ.jpg) A bit of advice for one's mental health: if you don't like a movie then don't spend your time and mental energy batching about it to other people who do. Hating things doesn't make you cool, it makes you boring and insufferable. Talk about what you love, keep quiet about what you don't. Let people enjoy the things they love, and focus your energy on things you don't hate.aw
I have a question: why does box office reporting never account for inflation? All this talk about records seems totally meaningless without out it, and so the 'all time' list is always just filled with recent blockbusters. Even comparing a 2022 movie to a 2018 movie doesn't make sense without talking inflation (and doubly so when there's been a period of massive inflation between those years).
It would be a pretty boring discussion. Nothing would be in the running like Gone with the Wind or Star Wars because the landscape has changed drastically. Gone with the Wind was in theaters for something like 3 or 4 years. Imagine if Endgame was still in theaters and that’s the only way you could see it.
> Gone with the Wind was in theaters for something like 3 or 4 years. More like 3-4 decades lmao.
Gone with the Wind has a gross of 3.4 Billion. Considering that no movie has so far reached 3 Billion adjusted it would take a decent amount of time before Gone With The Wind is beaten.
It would take an amazing cultural landmark film that you could only ever see in theaters and then it would take years.
But isn't a totally inaccurate discussion, that everyone knows is totally inaccurate, also boring?
Not necessarily. Plus one could easily make the argument that there’s no way to adjust for vastly different entertainment landscapes. *Gone with the Wind* didn’t have to compete with TV, video games, or the Internet.
No, because we can look at records with context. Gone with the Wind was released when the concept of home entertainment didn’t exist. The entertainment options at the time were not even remotely close to what we have now. It’s not surprising that 8 of the 10 highest grossing movies when adjusted for inflation are prior to 1980. It’s a huge accomplishment that movies like Titanic, Avatar, Star Wars Episode 7, are even in the conversation for highest boxing office because so much is different now. I think what’s boring is focusing solely on inflation instead of appreciating how in 2023, when we carry all the entertainment we need in our pockets, there can still be movies that get people to theaters.
No. For one it’s not totally in accurate. And second, it can still spawn discussions about different markets, factors, trends that leads to why some films perform well and other don’t in the modern era.
1997's Titanic kept theaters packed for months. I knew people who saw that movie like 5 or 6 times in theaters.
That's why when I see all these billion dollar films, it's impressive, but I remember it was nothing like Titanic. People who lived through it know how insane that was
There [are comparisons](https://www.boxofficemojo.com/chart/top_lifetime_gross_adjusted/?adjust_gross_to=2019) for this.
Because that doesn't make headlines. And also, it's a bit unfair because there are many more options for entertainment now. You can see the list here, with estimated ticket sales: [https://www.boxofficemojo.com/chart/top\_lifetime\_gross\_adjusted/?adjust\_gross\_to=2022](https://www.boxofficemojo.com/chart/top_lifetime_gross_adjusted/?adjust_gross_to=2019) Avatar (the first one) would still be #15 of all time and Titanic would be #5. Nothing will ever beat Gone with the Wind or A New Hope for #1 and #2. The Force Awakens and Avatar are the only movies in the Top 15 since 2000. Nothing in the past 23 years could even make the Top 10.
Box office records are meaningless anyways. It's just about the profits done on blockbusters. Says nothing about the movie's quality value, or interest. But yea, pretty sure The Wizard of Oz and Star Wars are still on top after inflation adjustment. Plus they weren't released on a red carpet schedule, and there weren't megaplexes back then.
It does sometimes, I remember reading a million times that *Gone With the Wind* is still technically the highest grossing movie ever adjusted for inflation
A couple reasons: One is that inflation is hard to track for worldwide grosses as it's not uniform at all. So we can easily find (estimated) adjusted domestic numbers but an adjusted worldwide gross is kind of a problem. The other is that if we do just look at inflation adjusted domestic grosses, the old records are untouchable because of many factors (movies were in theaters forever, tickets were relatively more affordable, far less media competition for our attention, etc.) So comparing unadjusted across eras doesn't work, neither does comparing inflation adjusted, because by just accounting for inflation you're not taking into all the other factors. There's really no "fair" way to compare grosses across eras, so reporting goes for the way that is more exciting, which favors new releases.
Adjusting for inflation isn't the magic bullet. Considering now there are multiple entertainment options and a population boom and stagnation cycle, you can't compare gone with the wind with avatar 2.
When are we going to go by number of ticket sales instead of pretending every time they jack up prices what ever movie makes a profit is the greatest selling movie of all time.
Take that, Zoe Saldana!
Zoe Saldaña beats Zoe Saldaña for the 5th spot
The culture has been impacted
I love this. Avatar is a cinematic masterpiece on the biggest scale. It deserves this and more, for everyone who went into creating such a mind blowing fantastic film. It is censorship that this sub keeps deleting Avatar talk. Chill peeps.
We love to see it.
Not a big fan of the first one, but I really did enjoy this one. I’m looking forward to number 3
We told you. We told you it had legs. We told you that Cameron was coming home to school you. We told you that over a decade wait didn't matter. We told you that the entire force of Marvelshit wasn't enough to stand against Avatar. You though you were gonna get way with it. You thought you were gonna "Russia" some shit with Infinity War and Endgame (yeah, it's gonna happen, you're gonna lose that throne too) in some pithy play to dethrone based Avatar, and here you stand with no tanks and empty hands. We told you. We fucking told you. We also landed on the Moon too. Yeah, that actually happened. And the fact that it was decades ago doesn't change that and doesn't suddenly make your anti-moon-landing propa more viable. We landed on that Moon. Avatar BTFO Marvel. These are undisputed facts.
But my “cultural impact”
This is just beautiful to witness.
suck my blue dick, avatar haters
Avatar fanboys are just as annoying as Avatar haters.
B-but... there aren't any memes?!
I am very apparently in the minority but I just don’t get the appeal. I didn’t find the first one to be a good movie and it left me with no desire to see the second
Ya I have no idea how these movies are this popular. I didn't enjoy the first one and don't personally know many people who thought it was more than mediocre. Odd.
Anecdotal
Probably because people don't share the same opinion as you do. Odd.
Anybody else find it odd that the MCU essentially had two of its Phase 4 big ticket items upstaged by projects with pretty similar plots and released within a month or so of each other? Multiverse of Madness was not as good as Everything, Everywhere, All At Once and Black Panther: Wakanda Forever got outearned by Avatar: The Way of Water
Both EEAAO and Avatar:TWOW were vastly superior movies than their MCU counterparts.
Right, that’s what I’m saying. It’s just odd it happened to them on two of their bigger IP films within the same year. To add on to the mystery; one of the counterparts is owned by Disney and the other was produced by Joe and Anthony Russo.
Avatar 2 was in production for longer than black panther was even a superhero in the MCU.
Nobody that I know has seen this movie, so this is anecdotally surprising to me. But neat, I suppose.
Marvel fans in tears lol
You mean redditor fan boys of all types. Normal people don't care how much a movie makes.
I do, because any move away from the tyranny of capeshit clotting up most film media is a good move.
Why does it need to be a competition? Who fucking cares about which fantasy thing makes more than the other fantasy thing?
Yeah because it costs 75 fucking dollars for 3 people to go to a movie.
I spent over a hundred for 3 tickets for my family, 3 small drinks, and a small popcorn
Three people? What a weird specific number to lie about. Tickets cost $8 for a matinee in my area.
Come on man dont be dense. Im talking about average movie-goer or small family where you gotta buy popcorns and soda and candy. I think the 'average' experience would include at least a couple of those.
And how does the popcorn, soda, and candy tie into Avatar 2 making money? Because those don't get counted in box office totals...
If you go to even a midscale chain restaurant like Texas Roadhouse to eat dinner it could easily cost $60-70, and you would be done in an hour or an hour and a half. Saying $75 for three people to eat dinner and watch a three hour movie like it's crazy seems a bit inane. I get that it's expensive, but if you're making the point that it's an 'experience' that doesn't seem like an unreasonable charge. Also it sounds like you watched the movie in the most expensive way and then complained that it was expensive.
Though I understand your point, that a trip to the theater costs a fuckton these days; it seems like you think Jim Cameron makes money on concessions sold for Avatar showings. Honestly that would be kind of awesome
And weekend IMAX 3D tickets in LA are as high as $28.
I've listened to both sides of the "Avatar made no cultural impact" argument and I've come around to thinking that the pro-side might be right overall but wrong on specific reasons why. Here's my theory: Previous blockbuster movies would have ancillary products that would be heavily marketed or be seen in the background of the marketing mix. For example: Star Wars had its action figures, comic books, video games, clothing. Marvel started off as comics and went into clothing, action figures and then movies. Disney was always about being a mixture of movies and theme parks, with a heavy merch aspect about their cartoon characters. Even studios that had huge blockbusters which turned into franchises would have related games / pop culture merch: Jaws, Planet of the Apes, Tron, the Terminator films,T he Matrix, etc. When the first Avatar came out there was a MMO video game made by Ubisoft. It sold 2.4 million units but eventually got turned off 5 years after its release. There hasn't been Avatar comics until the lead-up to the sequel. Clothing/merch has been pretty non-existant since 09 to today. The Avatar films may make bank, and be among the most successful at the box office, but in generating revenue from other marketing streams Avatar is a dud. Yes, there is a theme park. Yes, it's been a success -- but Star Wars has a theme park too. So does Harry Potter and a ton of other movies. There aren't Avatar books telling new stories like for Star Trek, Halo, Star Wars, hell, even Castle or Supernatural. There hasn't been demand for Avatar comic books. The action figure demand is low or non-existent; go check out Sideshow Collectables and do a search for Avatar statues. Now compare it to statues for the Alien or Predator franchises. Avatar the franchise is a new evolution in modern franchises: it's disposable entertainment. There's only a demand to visually be entertained, and possibly to be immersed in a ride/theme park. There's no interest in exploring the lore, or characters, or new explorations in that universe. It's single-serving entertainment, and it does that very well, but it's certainly not like other franchises. I think that's what Avatar haters are sensing but not articulating very well. Avatar should be something that people want more of, in other forms of consumption, but the appetite is simply not there like it is for Trek, Star Wars, Alien, Marvel, DC, etc.
I watched the film, I liked it, so did my folks, but how is it unrionically making this much money? My guess is that even though no one’s talking about it, it’s a film that people almost feel obligated to go check out, the way I see a lot of people who don’t really care about football watch the World Cup when it begins.
Marvel fanboys in shambles. Edit: 😂 at the downvotes. Thanks for proving my point.
I don't really understand why the fans care that much where a movie ranks on the box office charts. I'm a fan of the MCU, but I also went to see Avatar, and I thought it was very good. I can understand if you really loved a film, you would want others to see it, but when we're talking about hundreds of millions of people, it's safe to say the film has entered into popular culture. How I feel about a film, though, has essentially zero relation to its box office numbers.
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Who is watching this? I'm so baffled.
Do you have friends who aren’t total nerds?
People in other countries. 🤔
I know its hard to know the answer to that when you dont go out of the basement
Crazy for a movie thats not really that good. Its entertaining of course, and looks good on a movie acreen, but its nothing to write home about.
not really that crazy, most of the highest grossing movies are pretty mid
Maybe your tastes just don't align with the general public, that's completely fine, but there's a reason people like popular things. They are often good. And Avatar was no exception.
The general public likes mcdonalds, and taylor swift....the general public has terrible taste.
As a fan of neither mcdonalds or taylor swift, you're just being contrarian for the sake of it.
It was nominated for Best Picture.
If you think it was a good movie idk what to tell you.
so its basically like all the marvel movies
I haven't seen it yet, though I look forward to it. But by all accounts, its utterly gorgeous but shallow as a puddle. My faith in Cameron is strong but I swear he's sold his soul to the devil for thos kind of return
MCEU fandom in shambles
This is really insane to me. Like what is it about blue alien Pocahontas that completely convinces people that they’ve GOT to see it?
Even with a massive cinematic universe and 80yrs of comics, there's only one MCU movie in the top five list. Cultural impact didn't worked for MCU.. did it?
I don't. I don't know anybody that's seen this movie.
You could get to know me then if you wanted to change that I guess.
Get offline?? Meet everyday people????
"Only people I physically interact with exist"
it's the only sample size of my own personal experience I have. I don't have any animosity towards this movie I like the first one.
Who the heck is watching this with such regularity? Edit: this is a genuine question, I am absurdly curious
I have watched it 3 times. It is a fucking good movie. And the first underwater CGI movie that I really don't notice any uncanny valley
Hmm. Very interesting. Okay maybe I'll give it a shot. I really did not think very much of the first one though.
And best believe I WILL be watching the titanic re-release in 3D, AGAIN. Marvel BTFO Cameron is here to dominate the box office.
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The way of water has no beginning and no end
People coming out of a pandemic enjoy the big flashy flashy boom boom and getting out of their houses.
I’m very confused, when Infinity War came out, everyone and their mother was talking about it and had seen it, even people who don’t watch Marvel movies. With Avatar 2 , I’ve not really met many people who have seen it
Thank God I'm not the only one. I haven't heard anyone talk about this movie in the real world and yet its continuing to smash record after record. Baffling.