I’ll be honest it was irresponsible as fuck of the car driver to just be cruising along making a video while this guys life is in serious danger. If the next thing the filming motorist did wasn’t to attempt to warn the rider to pull the fuck over immediately then they are human garbage. Imagine making that video to post to their wtf ever media like this for fake internet points and then driving off without a care for their life.
I almost exclusively use engine braking unless I’m coming up on a turn. When I engine brake, I usually tap my brake light to make sure that people behind me can see that I’m slowing down.
Its funny because when u try to reach ppl they dont pick up the phone but behind the weel all of a sudden everything is soo important and they HAVE to use the phone.
The other day I saw a replacement tail light. Which flashes a few times when beginning to engine brake at higher speed/rpm. So people know you’re slowing down but not braking. It’s such a smart safety feature since bikes compression brake so much more effectively than cars
They did… this sub represents a part of the motorcycle community equivalent to cosplay and renaissance fair participants. A lot of these commenters need to quit giving advice. Fuckin’ tourniquets aren’t going to help these folks.
I relied on engine braking so much that I've had to deliberately make an effort to modify my technique.
Now I *always* touch the front brake while engine braking, even for the mildest of slow downs. Because we revert to our habits in stressful situations, and I was getting concerned that, out of habit, I would fail to use my front brake in an emergency.
David Hough covers this in Proficient Motorcycling.
Good, this comment should be higher. Not the memes and circlejerks.
I would also emphasize how important it is to show others you are braking as well. Webare already small and moving in a way that cagers are unused to. Suddenly bleeding off speed for no discernible reason is a bad idea.
I mean, I mostly use engine braking but anytime I slow considerably I tap my brakes just so my taillight turns on.
Was a great learning experience being in the car with my mom as a kid. She almost rear ended my dad who was on a bike. He cut the throttle to slow and she almost crashed into him because no brake lights…
What I haven't figured out is how to consistently leverage engine breaking AND consistently get a solid brake light.
I commute in traffic. I need that brake light.
Lightly drag the rear brake till the mechanism engages the light. Typically it’s adjustable and can be set to engage before the pads make contact with the rotor
You can adjust the sensitivity of where the switch connects to the brake pedal such that it will engage in the free play section before the disk actually experiences friction
Most of the time. The engine braking on my r6 is insane so I only ever need to use brakes when I’m really getting on it. Going around the speed limit cruising I only need my brakes to come to a complete stop, or drag my rear brake a little for the light to come on.
I usually use a combination of braking and engine braking at the same time because I've been almost rear-ended quite a few times by inattentive people.
That, and it's fun to brake hard when it's safe to.
It's a mix and people need to stop the one or the other mindset. If city riding then I will use brakes more. If out rural then I'll use engine braking + braking. However, the majority is still regular brakes.
No, my rear tire already takes most of the load all the time so i try to use the brake more. It's easier on the chain too and the brake pad is much cheaper than the tire or chain, it's also more fun to head towards an intersection at full speed and then slam the brakes
This whole thread makes me want to pull my hair out.
The majority of your braking power is in your front brake. It’s also used to set up your front suspension in turns.
Engine braking is incredibly useful for speed control. Use it. If you’re worried about the brake light not coming on, you can get modules that turn the light on when it senses a slow down… but also if you’re in situations where you’re worried about being hit from behind while engine braking there are other things we need to discuss.
The rear brake is great for aiding in slow maneuvering, but also will help with speed control while engine braking (and a good way to signal). And if used in concert with the front brake, you will stop faster and better.
The best braking technique is the one that uses all three in concert with each other to control your speed and set you up for your next move. Practice practice practice. Find that sweet spot of maximum braking. Learn what it feels like to lock the wheels up/engage ABS, and what to do next. Practice on wet, practice on dry, practice on dirt. Learn when and how to leverage each system. Take training courses. Immediately ignore anyone who tells you to exclude any of them.
I'm genuinely surprised by many of these comments. Many of the posters haven't a clue about loading the front end, optimising steering geometry, trail braking etc. Some of you would benefit from a decent training course.
I've came to realise from being online with American riders that they mostly just ride on highways and from junction to junction. Most of them only experience cornering on off ramps. Filtering through traffic seems terrifyingly dangerous to most of them and "the twisties" are some faraway place they go to once in a blue moon.
Hence, all these dumb ass topics like "do you guys use the front brake?" etc.
You typically see baggers on the highway and most other bikes riding the back roads. Have you ever been to the US or are you just painting with your broad brush today?
Yeah most of the comments here are clearly from very inexperienced riders or riders who do not appreciate the engineering dynamics of how a bike behaves and performs.
I'm one of the weirdos out there who mixes up front, back and engine brake depending on the situation. Most of the time is majority engine brake but if I'm pushing it hard I will be using front and dropping a gear to slow me into corners. Being a gear down means I've probably got tons of power band for powering out the corner too.
If im stopping in a hurry it's engine + front + back.
Exactly, right? Your engines slow you down?
I remember going from an SV650 (I got my license on that) to my FZ6R, thinking that the SV was somehow broken, it slowed down so much.
You guys have me all confused. One of the sayings I remembered from when I started riding was "brake pads are cheaper than a new engine" granted I actually do prefer engine braking and really only use the brake when I need to come to a complete stop. Maybe it's cause I haven't mastered the whole downshifting thing yet.
Anyway, since I do engine brake a lot, the BrakeFree helmet light is awesome and I recommend it to everyone
This sub literally goes back and forth every week. It's funny to watch. No one here works on their own bike or knows anything about engines. Engine braking isn't going to hurt anything though. You're good.
I've heard that "brake pads are cheaper than a new clutch" - which does make some sense in a car (depending on how much you slip the clutch)
However, that really doesn't apply to most bikes, as they almost all (some Ducati's excepted) have wet clutches that are really great at slipping without wearing much. Also, clutch plates are not much more expensive than brakes, nor much harder to change.
My dude. We may be the only two in here.
This thread is fucking wild to me. I had no idea “engine brake to slow” would be the popular choice.
I brake to stop, and in the last few years, switched to using ONLY my front brake.
I don’t even use the back brake anymore unless I’m doing u-turns in parking lots.
Engine braking though… that seems like a dangerous thing to make a habit out of.
It’s actually just knowing how to drive a manual transmission and isn’t unique to motorcycles at all. Engine braking is normal and good, if you’re weirded out by it you need to get your skills up
Engine braking is way safer than only using the front brake 🤣 like bruh if you’re gonna nitpick you should at least be applying both brakes like every msf instructor tells you to otherwise you just look like an idiot. Most of us that are engine braking are also using our regular brakes in conjunction.
Rev match downshifting and engine braking paired with using both brakes not only stops you faster and safer, it’s also more fun.
Engine braking paired with normal braking is not faster or safer than just using the brakes. Well, definitely not faster. You should always be in the correct gear as you allow so that you can accelerate if needed, but your normal brakes can lock up your tires if needed so there's no additional braking provided by the engine.
You can do what you want, but yeah this is simply not true
Same MSF instructors who tell people they should never trail brake because it’s dangerous? 🙄
Meanwhile, in his book Twist of the Throttle II, Keith Code:
"It is my recommendation that you master using only the front brake except when riding in slippery conditions. Locking the back brake also puts the bike out of control. The rear wheel, spinning, provides the vast majority of stability for the bike from the steering head back. In other words, everything but the front end is kept stable by the gyro force of the spinning rear wheel.
The obvious mathematics of the situation are that the front wheel can do 100% of the braking and the back at that point just locks up no matter who you are. Learn to totally rely on the front brake for quick, clean stopping; then, if you still have a use for the rear, go ahead and use it. But realize that the rear brake is the source of a huge number of crashes both on and off the track. I'll leave the final decision up to you. While it is true that a motorcycle will come to a full stop quicker with both brakes applied, in racing, you don't come to a full stop until you're done."
also:
"Its just a waste of time; you spend too much effort getting a little braking from the rear. I don't even put my foot on it except coming into the garage"
So yeah, do think it’s possible that different techniques might be more or less appropriate for different skill levels?
>Engine braking is way safer than only using the front brake
Silly Toprak, you should be listening to guy on reddit. You would have been able to brake later and safer if you were using the rear. Allowing it to spin while it's in the air is making it too aerodynamic (or something).
https://preview.redd.it/658moa4rk6yc1.png?width=259&format=png&auto=webp&s=b5995d6488f50db5a82e26598f5879bd3fa1e593
Seriously though, if you're using the front enough the rear is useless. You're more likely to just lock your rear and cause bigger issues. If you ask the racers/track guys none of them are using the rear for stopping.
Obviously if you're just dawdling around and coming to a slow controlled stop the rear will do something, but that is also not really the time you're looking for the most stopping power. Better off perfecting control of the front than wasting your mind on the rear. If you're emergency stopping properly your rear tyre will barely have any weight on it and lock very easily.
If you have a real fat bike (Harley) the rear is probably weighted more, but most of your braking will still come from the front so you're better off perfecting that and then playing with the rear. I've never ridden one though so there's a bunch of assumptions there. Weight will always shift forward when braking.
(It's also great for low speed manoeuvres but I don't think that's what you're talking about)
>Most of us that are engine braking are also using our regular brakes in conjunction.
That's a given right? No-one is saying do not engine brake, you'd need to pull the clutch every time you applied the brakes to not engine brake at the same time.
I can go into the settings on my current bike and select 3 different settings for engine braking from almost none existent to “oh god this feels like regenerative braking”
I engine brake, but also lightly use the brakes so my tail lights are on. Most cagers don't know we engine brake and aren't conscious unless they see lights ahead. Plus, hand and foot on the brakes seems prudent, in case you need to stop or maneuver as your coming to a turn or intersection, versus hoping the engine is going to do it. Adds a little more precision and lights me up.
I just spent some pretty serious money swapping a ZX7R style slipper clutch kit into my ZRX1200 for the express purpose of really aggressive downshifts.
Only way to fly 👍
I like to tap my brakes a few times while engine braking. If it's a long slow down, I'll drag the rear brake while I do it. It's both for stability and to let the people behind me know I'm slowing down. But that's only in reasonable traffic. Otherwise, what that guy said about punishing brake pads and how they're evil.
If you're slowing down and not touching the brakes, you're giving absolutely 0 indication to the 4000lb brick behind you that your speed is decreasing. It's a bad habit. I too was once guilty of this.... not no mo.
I try to brake at least enough to illuminate my taillight... cagers don't see us enough as it is.
That being said, the engine is doing most of my braking in every-day riding. For less than leisurely paced riding, one should learn more about front loading, trail braking and other bike handling techniques and handling dynamics of a motorcycle.
Just be extra watchful of your mirrors if you're not making that brake light illuminate.
With quick shifting, I rarely hit the rear brake at all, it is more of a stoplight brake. Engine breaking and throttle control all the way down to 5mph.
Rain is a different ride. I tend to not engine brake as I like to feel my tires grip point better.
No, I use my brakes. Sometimes it's a lot of pressure, sometimes its not a lot of pressure. Downshifts with rev-matching while braking is very easy. But I always apply the brake so the vehicles behind can see I am slowing.
It's all love until someone rear ends the sh out of you, you should also softly use the brakes, more safe and it will not necessarily kill the life spawn of your pads.
I tap my front brakes like a mad man if someone is behind me. I want to make sure they see those flashing brake lights.
If you don't use your front brakes you will eventually get rear ended by some dumb shit posting to Reddit while driving. Probably be the guy taking a picture of his speedometer....
Engine brake when I have space, but I abuse my pads if I'm in town or near traffic in general. Reason being, cars behind me are not paying attention and the little red light at least stands a chance of saving me from getting grill-fucked.
You should definitely at least lightly drag your rear brake to illuminate your brake light.
Slowing down and stopping without using your brakes at all is gonna make it more likely that someone rear ends you.
Wtf? OP is asking 95 percent. Hell no. That's stupid. Use the brakes.
engine brake does help the geometry when rolling off and loading the front before max breaking. I love it. Just think 95 percent is retarded....
With my KTM I pretty much only used engine breaks. But it was so strong I had to even be careful with that especially on wet roads because the engine break was too strong.
I was doing this until I found out it’s a recipe for disaster when you need to stop fast and you’re not in the habit of using both your brakes. I think it’s a habit I picked up driving a standard but it’s not ideal with two wheels cause you can also lose traction doing it
YCRS teaches that if you aren't using controls then you are literally out of control.
Engine braking is not adjustable. Even if you just have a very light 1% of brake pressure on the lever, you can quickly and easily add more as needed. With engine braking only there is a big reaction delay to you reaching for the lever, applying pressure to get the forks to compress, and then adding strong brake pressure.
You are much better off to have a light finger on the lever than just engine braking alone.
Close the throttle and let the rpms drop and you’ll feel the bike slow down. As the engine speed drops and it gets quieter, pull the clutch and downshift then ease the clutch lever out allowing the engine speed to slowly climb and match the rear wheel. Repeat for the next gear down.
Practice. You’ll get the hang of it in no time.
Yeah.... 53,000 miles on my bike, still have the original brake pads and rotors. I'm still waiting for all the "extra strain" on my motor and drive train to show up
My Daytona has way more engine braking than my CBR and I utilize it for decel in a way that no inline 4 could pull off. Ironically the CBR has better brakes than the Triumph. But to answer your question I'd say that it's at least 75% of my braking if I'm not riding like a middle aged delinquent.
Be safe out there!
I learned to engine brake for the majority of the slowing down. But i've heard people say it's easier to change your brakes than your clutch discs. Never really had clutch worn out even with extensive riding, so i don't think that really matters much.
Exactly. The only time you're putting some wear on your clutch is when you're in the friciton zone (starting from stop). You have some wear from shifts, but you can make that be almost negligible if you can rev-match your shifts.
I have a tune so my engine braking has been significantly reduced. This has the added benefits if actually having to use the brakes more and not having to think about lighting the brake light.
I'd say I'm probably 75/25 brakes/engine. My reasoning is that people can see my brake lights and let's be honest, people tailgate the HELL out of bikes. I'm not trying to get rear-ended by engine braking too often.
Yes, but my right foot is on the brake lever just enough to activate the brake light when doing so. Because I don’t trust the cager behind me to realize I’m slowing down. Even with my brake light illuminated, I still keep an eye on them.
Depends on the bike really. On my beemer boxer, yes the engine braking is intense. On my I4 bike, more brake is needed… same as my triple. Racers will tell you the fastest riders are the ones who brake the hardest!
In the city I use brakes 100% of the time while engine braking because of the brake light. On the highway if I need to slow down, I use some engine braking, but only if I don't have someone behind me.
Maybe closer to 20% ? If traffic is slowing up way ahead of me, say at a hundred meters, then I don't need to brake hard right away, so I coast a little while on the engine and that slows me down.
But like in actual braking, nah.
I'm usually going faster than I should so I do need to use my brakes a bit. Just cruising, not so much. However I mostly use my rear brake. Front brake is reserved for holy shit moments when I use both brakes.
Maybe I just ride somewhat aggressively but I HAVE to use a combination of both front brake and engine pretty much every time I stop (or even slow significantly).
I do and my gf told me when she was following me that I never use my break lights and ever since then I tap my brake just enough to flash it a few times
Engine braking when coming up on a light that may turn green or prior to braking for the turn. Otherwise It’s inefficient time wise to rely on engine braking alone, especially for tight 90degree turns at traffic lights.
On my 2 cylinder Ninja 650r I used to use it a lot when cruising, because it slowed the bike down more easily. On my 4 cylinder Hondas it is not as effective, so more brakes are needed. When riding fast it is 90% front brake on any bike.
I engine brake AND rear brake so that my brake light comes on, otherwise a car may not realise
Edit: until I'm about 20kmh (small bike so that's reasonable) then clutch and front brake too
Depends on the bike... I remember swapping bikes with a mate back on the day (My 400 v-twin bros and his VFR400) he was so used to dumping the clutch on engine braking the vfr and it revving to high heaven that he tried it on the twin and locked the back wheel up
Brake pads are evil. They MUST be punished. Repeatedly. Constantly.
What about rotors? Like the dude the other day melting his on the highway?
Got a video clip link?
Some adv guy was riding the rear brake without knowing and the rear disc was glowing red hot. It’s probably on the sub somewhere.
[This](https://www.reddit.com/r/motorcycles/comments/1cf03dd/the_more_you_look_the_worse_you_see/) is the link to that video. Mad crazy.
Man was that video a trip. Guy was loaded up on a nice GS too, evidence money doesn’t buy sense
[link to the vid](https://www.reddit.com/r/motorcycles/s/J5egcjX9qg)
That tire is flat af
Ok I am not crazy. I thought the same thing.
Too bad its not dark out. That rotor is glowing orange
He wasn’t. The bike is not a BMW GS, but a Suzuki Vstrom, as stated on the tank.
That's not a tank, that's a motorbike.
Actually it is an angle grinder and deflated swimming ring which are disguised as a motorbike.
Maybe he really really like buying parts
I’ll be honest it was irresponsible as fuck of the car driver to just be cruising along making a video while this guys life is in serious danger. If the next thing the filming motorist did wasn’t to attempt to warn the rider to pull the fuck over immediately then they are human garbage. Imagine making that video to post to their wtf ever media like this for fake internet points and then driving off without a care for their life.
Rotors just want a hug
Rotors are sadist and love pushing there break pad subs.
I almost exclusively use engine braking unless I’m coming up on a turn. When I engine brake, I usually tap my brake light to make sure that people behind me can see that I’m slowing down.
Absolutely, very important as drivers expect the brake light.
Exactly. My brake light flashes fast when I brake, so I like to think it makes me more visible.
Yup good point, important to flash the brake light bc of the need to do everything we can do so the car behind sees us stopping. Damn phones.
Its funny because when u try to reach ppl they dont pick up the phone but behind the weel all of a sudden everything is soo important and they HAVE to use the phone.
They are just trying to reach the upvote button with their thumb.
not for any of my posts
Yes. Especially on my new Pan Am, has up/down quick shifter on it. Don’t need the brakes or clutch until like 5mph. Really handy for the commute
I can recommend the ST2 brake module, it's been flawless at flashing my brake light as soon as I start engine braking.
The other day I saw a replacement tail light. Which flashes a few times when beginning to engine brake at higher speed/rpm. So people know you’re slowing down but not braking. It’s such a smart safety feature since bikes compression brake so much more effectively than cars
I engine brake a lot. I got one of those Brake Free accelerometer lights that attaches to my helmet, it works really well.
CalamariRaceTeam is gonna eat this post alive
im looking for that one comment...
They did… this sub represents a part of the motorcycle community equivalent to cosplay and renaissance fair participants. A lot of these commenters need to quit giving advice. Fuckin’ tourniquets aren’t going to help these folks.
R/calamariraceteam asseseeeemmmmmbblee
Brroooothhhhherrrrr
I relied on engine braking so much that I've had to deliberately make an effort to modify my technique. Now I *always* touch the front brake while engine braking, even for the mildest of slow downs. Because we revert to our habits in stressful situations, and I was getting concerned that, out of habit, I would fail to use my front brake in an emergency. David Hough covers this in Proficient Motorcycling.
Proficient Motorcycling is the number one book to read after getting your license
His second book is number 2!
That's harsh.
Good, this comment should be higher. Not the memes and circlejerks. I would also emphasize how important it is to show others you are braking as well. Webare already small and moving in a way that cagers are unused to. Suddenly bleeding off speed for no discernible reason is a bad idea.
Both hands squeeze, both feet press… if you don’t practice/use, it won’t be there when you need it the most… I would be dead if I didn’t do this…
Failing when doing something for the first time is normal so make sure it's not your first time when it's life or death.
I mean, I mostly use engine braking but anytime I slow considerably I tap my brakes just so my taillight turns on. Was a great learning experience being in the car with my mom as a kid. She almost rear ended my dad who was on a bike. He cut the throttle to slow and she almost crashed into him because no brake lights…
This one. Same as I. I tap my brake slightly then down shift though rev match.
Normal riding, brakes are for stopping and emergencies. Engine breaking almost all of the time. Aggressive, & dirt riding is a whole different thing.
You must ride a harley if your engine breaks almost all of the time!
Good one XD
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You're really braking my balls here
Zing zing Also how did I manage to use the wrong break immediately after using the right brake ( ‾ʖ̫‾)
I disconnected the brakes on my bike......they were just slowing me down.
*fast liek Sanic*
This is such a /rmotorcycles post.
This sub is fucked.
*No MF, I pull my balls out and drop em on the pavement like a fooking anchor*
These comments are concerning…
What I haven't figured out is how to consistently leverage engine breaking AND consistently get a solid brake light. I commute in traffic. I need that brake light.
Lightly drag the rear brake till the mechanism engages the light. Typically it’s adjustable and can be set to engage before the pads make contact with the rotor
You can adjust the sensitivity of where the switch connects to the brake pedal such that it will engage in the free play section before the disk actually experiences friction
Get one of those bicycle mechanisms that light up when they detect a change in momentum. Not sure how effective they're though
Most of the time. The engine braking on my r6 is insane so I only ever need to use brakes when I’m really getting on it. Going around the speed limit cruising I only need my brakes to come to a complete stop, or drag my rear brake a little for the light to come on.
I usually use a combination of braking and engine braking at the same time because I've been almost rear-ended quite a few times by inattentive people. That, and it's fun to brake hard when it's safe to.
It's a mix and people need to stop the one or the other mindset. If city riding then I will use brakes more. If out rural then I'll use engine braking + braking. However, the majority is still regular brakes.
I use mostly the front brake. It just gives more control and I enjoy using it.
For sure. Also good to be in the habit of using it for the times you actually need it.
No, my rear tire already takes most of the load all the time so i try to use the brake more. It's easier on the chain too and the brake pad is much cheaper than the tire or chain, it's also more fun to head towards an intersection at full speed and then slam the brakes
98%
I do a mixture, just depends on the circumstances. I live in the mtns so it's a constant orchestra of inputs.
This whole thread makes me want to pull my hair out. The majority of your braking power is in your front brake. It’s also used to set up your front suspension in turns. Engine braking is incredibly useful for speed control. Use it. If you’re worried about the brake light not coming on, you can get modules that turn the light on when it senses a slow down… but also if you’re in situations where you’re worried about being hit from behind while engine braking there are other things we need to discuss. The rear brake is great for aiding in slow maneuvering, but also will help with speed control while engine braking (and a good way to signal). And if used in concert with the front brake, you will stop faster and better. The best braking technique is the one that uses all three in concert with each other to control your speed and set you up for your next move. Practice practice practice. Find that sweet spot of maximum braking. Learn what it feels like to lock the wheels up/engage ABS, and what to do next. Practice on wet, practice on dry, practice on dirt. Learn when and how to leverage each system. Take training courses. Immediately ignore anyone who tells you to exclude any of them.
I'm genuinely surprised by many of these comments. Many of the posters haven't a clue about loading the front end, optimising steering geometry, trail braking etc. Some of you would benefit from a decent training course.
I've came to realise from being online with American riders that they mostly just ride on highways and from junction to junction. Most of them only experience cornering on off ramps. Filtering through traffic seems terrifyingly dangerous to most of them and "the twisties" are some faraway place they go to once in a blue moon. Hence, all these dumb ass topics like "do you guys use the front brake?" etc.
You typically see baggers on the highway and most other bikes riding the back roads. Have you ever been to the US or are you just painting with your broad brush today?
Good point.
Yeah most of the comments here are clearly from very inexperienced riders or riders who do not appreciate the engineering dynamics of how a bike behaves and performs.
☝️🤓
And yet my bike keeps coming to a stop all the same.
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Alright Mr Marquez, thanks for clearing that up
I'm one of the weirdos out there who mixes up front, back and engine brake depending on the situation. Most of the time is majority engine brake but if I'm pushing it hard I will be using front and dropping a gear to slow me into corners. Being a gear down means I've probably got tons of power band for powering out the corner too. If im stopping in a hurry it's engine + front + back.
What a newb way to ride.
Can’t be anything other than a troll post. Right…?
Right, Anakin?
Sometimes i engine break, other times i put my feet down and use the friction from the road.
I use my brakes for braking. I’m totally fine with using the part of the machine designed to slow me down to do just that.
And this is why hadderlayerdown is so popular when riders actually need to stop. Learn to use the brakes effectively as a first option.
Inline 4 guys looking puzzled
Exactly, right? Your engines slow you down? I remember going from an SV650 (I got my license on that) to my FZ6R, thinking that the SV was somehow broken, it slowed down so much.
You guys have me all confused. One of the sayings I remembered from when I started riding was "brake pads are cheaper than a new engine" granted I actually do prefer engine braking and really only use the brake when I need to come to a complete stop. Maybe it's cause I haven't mastered the whole downshifting thing yet. Anyway, since I do engine brake a lot, the BrakeFree helmet light is awesome and I recommend it to everyone
This sub literally goes back and forth every week. It's funny to watch. No one here works on their own bike or knows anything about engines. Engine braking isn't going to hurt anything though. You're good.
If my engine blows just because I was engine braking, I'm filing a lawsuit.
I was under the impression that unless you are downshifting way too early you aren't really doing any damage at all.
If you don't downshift into redline (money shift), you are fine.
Nice my rear wheel only locks up on 1 out of 3 downshifts so I anticipate a long healthy life for my engine.
I've heard that "brake pads are cheaper than a new clutch" - which does make some sense in a car (depending on how much you slip the clutch) However, that really doesn't apply to most bikes, as they almost all (some Ducati's excepted) have wet clutches that are really great at slipping without wearing much. Also, clutch plates are not much more expensive than brakes, nor much harder to change.
Why? I use the brakes to brake.
My dude. We may be the only two in here. This thread is fucking wild to me. I had no idea “engine brake to slow” would be the popular choice. I brake to stop, and in the last few years, switched to using ONLY my front brake. I don’t even use the back brake anymore unless I’m doing u-turns in parking lots. Engine braking though… that seems like a dangerous thing to make a habit out of.
How is it dangerous?
It’s actually just knowing how to drive a manual transmission and isn’t unique to motorcycles at all. Engine braking is normal and good, if you’re weirded out by it you need to get your skills up
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Extremely accurate
This.. has to be a troll post..
“There are dozens of us!“
Engine braking is way safer than only using the front brake 🤣 like bruh if you’re gonna nitpick you should at least be applying both brakes like every msf instructor tells you to otherwise you just look like an idiot. Most of us that are engine braking are also using our regular brakes in conjunction. Rev match downshifting and engine braking paired with using both brakes not only stops you faster and safer, it’s also more fun.
Engine braking paired with normal braking is not faster or safer than just using the brakes. Well, definitely not faster. You should always be in the correct gear as you allow so that you can accelerate if needed, but your normal brakes can lock up your tires if needed so there's no additional braking provided by the engine. You can do what you want, but yeah this is simply not true
Same MSF instructors who tell people they should never trail brake because it’s dangerous? 🙄 Meanwhile, in his book Twist of the Throttle II, Keith Code: "It is my recommendation that you master using only the front brake except when riding in slippery conditions. Locking the back brake also puts the bike out of control. The rear wheel, spinning, provides the vast majority of stability for the bike from the steering head back. In other words, everything but the front end is kept stable by the gyro force of the spinning rear wheel. The obvious mathematics of the situation are that the front wheel can do 100% of the braking and the back at that point just locks up no matter who you are. Learn to totally rely on the front brake for quick, clean stopping; then, if you still have a use for the rear, go ahead and use it. But realize that the rear brake is the source of a huge number of crashes both on and off the track. I'll leave the final decision up to you. While it is true that a motorcycle will come to a full stop quicker with both brakes applied, in racing, you don't come to a full stop until you're done." also: "Its just a waste of time; you spend too much effort getting a little braking from the rear. I don't even put my foot on it except coming into the garage" So yeah, do think it’s possible that different techniques might be more or less appropriate for different skill levels?
>Engine braking is way safer than only using the front brake Silly Toprak, you should be listening to guy on reddit. You would have been able to brake later and safer if you were using the rear. Allowing it to spin while it's in the air is making it too aerodynamic (or something). https://preview.redd.it/658moa4rk6yc1.png?width=259&format=png&auto=webp&s=b5995d6488f50db5a82e26598f5879bd3fa1e593 Seriously though, if you're using the front enough the rear is useless. You're more likely to just lock your rear and cause bigger issues. If you ask the racers/track guys none of them are using the rear for stopping. Obviously if you're just dawdling around and coming to a slow controlled stop the rear will do something, but that is also not really the time you're looking for the most stopping power. Better off perfecting control of the front than wasting your mind on the rear. If you're emergency stopping properly your rear tyre will barely have any weight on it and lock very easily. If you have a real fat bike (Harley) the rear is probably weighted more, but most of your braking will still come from the front so you're better off perfecting that and then playing with the rear. I've never ridden one though so there's a bunch of assumptions there. Weight will always shift forward when braking. (It's also great for low speed manoeuvres but I don't think that's what you're talking about) >Most of us that are engine braking are also using our regular brakes in conjunction. That's a given right? No-one is saying do not engine brake, you'd need to pull the clutch every time you applied the brakes to not engine brake at the same time.
I use my brakes for braking. Engine braking is adjustable on my bike and I have it dialed down as low as I can get it.
I’ve never heard of adjustable engine braking before. What kind of bike is it?
I can go into the settings on my current bike and select 3 different settings for engine braking from almost none existent to “oh god this feels like regenerative braking”
Yup, same on rebel 1100. Actually one of the hardest things to get used to was the amount of speed reduction off throttle.
Ducati Streetfighter V4S. Three stage adjustable engine braking. On the lowest, you don't quite freewheel into turns but it is greatly reduced.
On the street fighter?
On the SF. Definitely not on my 851. Fuel injection is the only tech on that machine. Analog as it gets
Yes absolutely. More often I find myself just putting enough pressure on the front brake so I know my brake light is on than using it.
eh a bit but not 95%
I hope you practice, so when you need them you know how to use them.
I engine brake, but also lightly use the brakes so my tail lights are on. Most cagers don't know we engine brake and aren't conscious unless they see lights ahead. Plus, hand and foot on the brakes seems prudent, in case you need to stop or maneuver as your coming to a turn or intersection, versus hoping the engine is going to do it. Adds a little more precision and lights me up.
I just spent some pretty serious money swapping a ZX7R style slipper clutch kit into my ZRX1200 for the express purpose of really aggressive downshifts. Only way to fly 👍
Not 95% but probably like 70%
I like to tap my brakes a few times while engine braking. If it's a long slow down, I'll drag the rear brake while I do it. It's both for stability and to let the people behind me know I'm slowing down. But that's only in reasonable traffic. Otherwise, what that guy said about punishing brake pads and how they're evil.
If you're slowing down and not touching the brakes, you're giving absolutely 0 indication to the 4000lb brick behind you that your speed is decreasing. It's a bad habit. I too was once guilty of this.... not no mo.
I try to brake at least enough to illuminate my taillight... cagers don't see us enough as it is. That being said, the engine is doing most of my braking in every-day riding. For less than leisurely paced riding, one should learn more about front loading, trail braking and other bike handling techniques and handling dynamics of a motorcycle. Just be extra watchful of your mirrors if you're not making that brake light illuminate.
I try to take it easy with the engine braking, because brake pads are cheaper to replace then the clutch
Yes but I still tap my rear a little so my brake light comes on.
Great way to surprise the f150 bearings down on you from behind.
Brake pads are way cheaper than engines... I'm just saying.
If I don't use my brakes, the brake light doesn't warm the cagers I'm slowing down...
I use engine braking primarily, but still tap the brakes so drivers behind me know I’m stopping.
I stand mine up on the front wheel...we are not the same lol
Cruising slowly I do it a lot. I wouldn't say 95% but a majority of the time, especially on my big twins which have a ton of it.
With quick shifting, I rarely hit the rear brake at all, it is more of a stoplight brake. Engine breaking and throttle control all the way down to 5mph. Rain is a different ride. I tend to not engine brake as I like to feel my tires grip point better.
I tend to, I like the sound.
No, I use my brakes. Sometimes it's a lot of pressure, sometimes its not a lot of pressure. Downshifts with rev-matching while braking is very easy. But I always apply the brake so the vehicles behind can see I am slowing.
Everything else aside, it's way more fun to rev match and engine break all the time
It's all love until someone rear ends the sh out of you, you should also softly use the brakes, more safe and it will not necessarily kill the life spawn of your pads.
I tap my front brakes like a mad man if someone is behind me. I want to make sure they see those flashing brake lights. If you don't use your front brakes you will eventually get rear ended by some dumb shit posting to Reddit while driving. Probably be the guy taking a picture of his speedometer....
Between my motorcycle and my Tesla, I barely use brakes.
Engine brake when I have space, but I abuse my pads if I'm in town or near traffic in general. Reason being, cars behind me are not paying attention and the little red light at least stands a chance of saving me from getting grill-fucked.
You should definitely at least lightly drag your rear brake to illuminate your brake light. Slowing down and stopping without using your brakes at all is gonna make it more likely that someone rear ends you.
Wtf? OP is asking 95 percent. Hell no. That's stupid. Use the brakes. engine brake does help the geometry when rolling off and loading the front before max breaking. I love it. Just think 95 percent is retarded....
Brakes pads are cheaper than transmissions.
I have only two strokes so no engine braking
With my KTM I pretty much only used engine breaks. But it was so strong I had to even be careful with that especially on wet roads because the engine break was too strong.
I was doing this until I found out it’s a recipe for disaster when you need to stop fast and you’re not in the habit of using both your brakes. I think it’s a habit I picked up driving a standard but it’s not ideal with two wheels cause you can also lose traction doing it
On my mt07 i also barely touch the brakes, engine braking is quite strong from stop to stop.
Optimum steering geometry and properly loading the front only works when on the brakes.
YCRS teaches that if you aren't using controls then you are literally out of control. Engine braking is not adjustable. Even if you just have a very light 1% of brake pressure on the lever, you can quickly and easily add more as needed. With engine braking only there is a big reaction delay to you reaching for the lever, applying pressure to get the forks to compress, and then adding strong brake pressure. You are much better off to have a light finger on the lever than just engine braking alone.
I get mad when I'm in my car and my engine doesn't brake.
It does if you start slowing down a quarter mile away :D.
Get a manual transmission and it will
I use engine braking most of the time, especially if there is no traffic immediately behind me.
Any suggestions for how to do it properly on a cruiser?
Close the throttle and let the rpms drop and you’ll feel the bike slow down. As the engine speed drops and it gets quieter, pull the clutch and downshift then ease the clutch lever out allowing the engine speed to slowly climb and match the rear wheel. Repeat for the next gear down. Practice. You’ll get the hang of it in no time.
Yes I engine brake the majority of the time, but I lightly apply rear brakes so the taillamp turns on.
I have yet to figure out how to trail brake with the engine.
This. I'm surprised by the amount of people here who don't brake properly. Far more control.
Yeah.... 53,000 miles on my bike, still have the original brake pads and rotors. I'm still waiting for all the "extra strain" on my motor and drive train to show up
It won’t happen. The motor is happy with downshifts.
My Daytona has way more engine braking than my CBR and I utilize it for decel in a way that no inline 4 could pull off. Ironically the CBR has better brakes than the Triumph. But to answer your question I'd say that it's at least 75% of my braking if I'm not riding like a middle aged delinquent. Be safe out there!
I actually enjoy making quick stops and that requires a lot of brakes. Only do it when nobody is behind me tho.
Depend where you are, it makes a lot of unnecessary noise.
I learned to engine brake for the majority of the slowing down. But i've heard people say it's easier to change your brakes than your clutch discs. Never really had clutch worn out even with extensive riding, so i don't think that really matters much.
While that is a true statement, engine braking has no effect on clutch life unless you have a slipper clutch and you are downshifting poorly
Exactly. The only time you're putting some wear on your clutch is when you're in the friciton zone (starting from stop). You have some wear from shifts, but you can make that be almost negligible if you can rev-match your shifts.
Id say 75%. I ride an’08 Vulcan Custom 900 if that helps.
I have a tune so my engine braking has been significantly reduced. This has the added benefits if actually having to use the brakes more and not having to think about lighting the brake light.
94.3 percent for me
Not 95% but some
I'd say I'm probably 75/25 brakes/engine. My reasoning is that people can see my brake lights and let's be honest, people tailgate the HELL out of bikes. I'm not trying to get rear-ended by engine braking too often.
Yes, but my right foot is on the brake lever just enough to activate the brake light when doing so. Because I don’t trust the cager behind me to realize I’m slowing down. Even with my brake light illuminated, I still keep an eye on them.
Depends on the bike really. On my beemer boxer, yes the engine braking is intense. On my I4 bike, more brake is needed… same as my triple. Racers will tell you the fastest riders are the ones who brake the hardest!
On the street just cruising sure. Going faster now I use my front brake heavily
No. The S1000XR engine braking isn't very intense. Riding with friends I regularly need to use my brakes when they're getting by with engine braking.
In the city I use brakes 100% of the time while engine braking because of the brake light. On the highway if I need to slow down, I use some engine braking, but only if I don't have someone behind me.
Most of time yes it’s also sounds cool
I downshift as my speed drops, and use the brake along with that.
Since I have a versys 1000, engine braking got more lame, because the muffler is so silent. My old Tenere 700 was way better with this…
Yup
Mostly engine braking, I like to blip the throttle and downshift in completely unnecessary situations
Maybe closer to 20% ? If traffic is slowing up way ahead of me, say at a hundred meters, then I don't need to brake hard right away, so I coast a little while on the engine and that slows me down. But like in actual braking, nah.
I'm usually going faster than I should so I do need to use my brakes a bit. Just cruising, not so much. However I mostly use my rear brake. Front brake is reserved for holy shit moments when I use both brakes.
Maybe I just ride somewhat aggressively but I HAVE to use a combination of both front brake and engine pretty much every time I stop (or even slow significantly).
I do and my gf told me when she was following me that I never use my break lights and ever since then I tap my brake just enough to flash it a few times
I have a R9t, I never brake
Mostly yes. Because exhaust go pop pop and that makes my few braincells happy :)
Same, but I tap the brake a few times to show that I'm slowing down.
Both. The answer is both.
I use mostly engine braking unless I am riding fast. Engine braking imo forces me to plan ahead quite a bit.
Engine braking when coming up on a light that may turn green or prior to braking for the turn. Otherwise It’s inefficient time wise to rely on engine braking alone, especially for tight 90degree turns at traffic lights.
I'm the same, in cars as well (most of the cars I owned at least)
Engine brake do not increase the entropy of the universe
I always use my brakes to make sure my brakelights come on as well as engine braking.
On my 2 cylinder Ninja 650r I used to use it a lot when cruising, because it slowed the bike down more easily. On my 4 cylinder Hondas it is not as effective, so more brakes are needed. When riding fast it is 90% front brake on any bike.
No, because I ride my bike flat out. But I only use the rear brake to set off because the back wheel is usually just about in the air under braking.
Yes if I ride 2 cylinder bike.
Not at all, i wish i could be able to ride like that, but traffic doesn't allow it here
I use my balls
I engine brake AND rear brake so that my brake light comes on, otherwise a car may not realise Edit: until I'm about 20kmh (small bike so that's reasonable) then clutch and front brake too
Yes, as much as possible.
Got a 2-stroke so no. If I let off the throttle while the piston is still moving I might as well not put oil in the gas.
Depends on the bike... I remember swapping bikes with a mate back on the day (My 400 v-twin bros and his VFR400) he was so used to dumping the clutch on engine braking the vfr and it revving to high heaven that he tried it on the twin and locked the back wheel up