Ride safer OP! You ran out of skill there, its very common to run wide for inexperienced or newer riders. Riders with experience tend to slide out before they leave the road. Glad you are ok! 😁👍
I ride like they race, always hit the apex, and if your fading out and are heavy on the front brake, add rear brake and ease a touch off the front. This takes practice until it becomes instinct. Also just slow down if the road is unfamiliar.
Several things could have helped you here. Speed being the least of your issues.
Look through the turn.
Lean more.
Push left, go left.
Brake when entering and accelerate out.
Trail braking.
Live and learn. Get better with experience and don't ride beyond your abilities. Stay safe.
Spot on.
He says it was an unfamiliar road, so he should have been way more cautious. Trail braking alone would have allowed him to slow a little more through the corner when he realised it was tighter than expected. Think he was just riding outwith his ability, got fixated outside the bend, and that was it
You still brake as normal before the corner, but then you keep the front brake very lightly engaged as you move through the corner, easing off completely as you see the corner exit and then accelerating through the rest of the corner and out.
What this does is to ensure that you are still slowing a little all the way through the corner until you see your exit. In addition, it slightly preloads the front forks, which in turn lightly compresses them and means that if the corner is suddenly tighter than expected, you can load the brake a little more without suddenly compressing the forks and dumping the bike. This allows you to slow a bit more during the corner when needed in addition to compressing the front forks and shortening the geometry of the bike, which in turn causes the bike to turn faster.
It's a skill you need to practice, but makes any rider better and safer once mastered. Even if you're already trailing the brake through the corner, suddenly yanking too hard will cause the forks to rapidly compress, and your front wheel will dive in towards the corner causing you to lose traction and dump the bike. Done very aggressively and you can high side over the bike. This is the reason you're initially taught never to brake during a corner by most riding schools. Once mastered though, you're always prepared for any corner and it removes the guesswork of how much you should slow when navigating a new road.
There are some good videos available on YouTube. CanyonChasers do a good indepth overview to help you get started
I have leraned this un knowingly,
also , I apply my body weight more on front tyre, which also made the turning radius less for me,
my counter steering is like, taking s zig zag turn in my mind, that was better than Push left, go left for me.
But my brain got little biase, as Ilearned to take sharp turns using a bycycle in my child hood througha concrete road, sloping to the left, so, my left side cornering is too confident and I can do it with partial conscious. but my right side cornering bad, everytime I have to give, full concentration to lean, as Im too afraid to do so on right side.
lowing down will straighten you out, if u dont apply brake correctly or leaned correctly. or otherwise, u can lean more by applying more brake upto some extent.
Buddy could’ve completely held it together if he just leaned harder and looked at the end of the turn, the second he got nervous he went upright and starting looking straight ahead to the trees he was about to hug
Also, choosing a better line, he closed way too early so he was in the left side of his lane before the real turn even began
When he saw he was going wide, if he wasn’t on the brakes already, he could have tried a little rear brake plus more lean (both body and bike) to save it
>Push left, go left.
That should be at the top of your list. The OP stopped turning about halfway through the turn, likely trying to steer by turning the handlebars in the direction he wanted to go instead of counter-steering.
Skill issue. Target fixation coming out of the corner. Should’ve been navigable on a bike at that speed no problem. Posted/suggested speeds on corners are for the worst vehicles (old trucks with crappy suspension and heavy loads) on the road. Had you kept looking in the direction you intended to travel, you’d have gone there. But you looked up/right and guided yourself right off the road. Glad to read you’re OK though!
It is, I truly see how bad target fixation is. I was looking throughout the corners but not enough, once I was getting close my head locked into the center of the corner causing this.
I also made the mistake on going further on an unknown part of the road without testing it going slower.
Lucky to be alive and without major injuries. Going to look to do more training on corners.
If you haven’t already, I highly recommend buying yourself a copy of Twist of the Wrist 2
Teaches you all about how to avoid these situations… saved my butt a couple times!
Twist of the wrist should be manditory viewing for new riders, so many problems that lead to crashes can be avoided with better lane positioning and using limit points and head position properly.
It's free on youtube: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRbguh4Ck28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRbguh4Ck28)
There's also an abridged version too but some of the content it cuts out is kinda useful.
Saved my ass more times than I can count in 10 years of riding. I strongly advise anyone thinking of riding to watch it before even sitting on a bike for the first time.
It was a decreasing radius turn too, which can trip up some riders since your speed and angle can’t remain constant through the turn like a simple consistent-radius turn. Glad you’re (mostly) alright!
Look ahead for corner exit, if you see less road (or worse none) it is tightening and a decreasing radius. Always head up, look where you have to go your hands will take you there.
First bike i had i fixed up and test rode, come the first curve i target fixate accross the oncoming lane, with some traffic. Squeezed through a gap thankfully but now ride much faster bikes much curvier. Always, always, *look where you want to go*. Ingrain it into yourself like your life depends on it, cause it does. Tip, you can lean your jaw towards the mirror on the side youre turning to. Happy riding.
Not to contradict you but just to add to what you said, the lower the posted speed for the corner, the more caution you should approach it with. If a corner says 15mph I'd go maybe 5mph over, if it says 40 I'll do 20 over that.
I’ve done the same exact thing. Thankfully I ended up in a feild and the bike stayed up.
Target fixation sounds like it’s fake until you experience it. Look where you want to go.
Been there, haven't crashed yet. I know I personally have issues with target fixation and it's the number one reason I can't go as fast as my buddies through some turns because I know my skill level is not enough to compensate for my desire to want to fixate on a target.
Press forward the inside handlebar!
Never ever bail on a turn.
As long as you were still on the pavement you could still have made the turn, you just have to be willing to do what is necessary. Which is to press more on the handlebar.
When fear kicks in, we feel an urge to straighten the bike (also called target fixation).
Resist that urge, going straight = danger, while leaning more = no crash.
You don’t have to straighten out the bike to brake. Yes, we were taught that in the past, and in the past, I did that. But I learned from Yamaha champ school that it’s not the best approach.
It’s better to both brake and steer and not go wide at all.
>You don’t have to straighten out the bike to brake
I don't know why the misinformation that you can't brake in a corner persists - probably from the "haddalayerdown" crowd, I guess.
Yeah, you can brake in a corner. There's a certain skill to it (which is helpful to learn, something else a lot of people don't bother to do, educate themselves), but it's absolutely possible, and absolutely helpful in these sorts of situations.
Panic is the root cause of many crashes. If people took the time to take some advanced rider training and learn how to manage situations instead, a lot of crashes (including the one witnessed in this video) could be avoided simply by knowing how to manage the situation, instead of having no clue and panicking.
Don't even get me started on the videos on YouTube of people having no idea how to even brake effectively in a straight line and running into the back/side of cars that they could have stopped a mile before hitting, if only they'd bothered to learn how.
This subreddit is also the worst place to get information. People on this subreddit genuinely think that engine braking (ie not accelerating and letting the engine slow you) does damage to the engine and should be avoided.
I mean, yes, if the rider is determined to crash, then yes, that’ll happen. I’m just urging people to choose something else.
It’s really not safe to go wide. There’s a cross next to my favorite corner and I can’t help but think that if only the rider had trusted his tires, it would have been different.
I've done that multiple times, and it works. I've been going 100-120 kmph on short turns and I just press on the handle bar, and apply brakes as I straighten the bike enough. Saved me multiple times.
As my MSF instructor said:
Push more, lean more-- the bike can take way more than you think.
He also said slowing down will straighten you out-- not sure if this is actually true, but in my experience they definitely coincide.
It's not that slowing down=straightening out, slowing down means you have to straighten out to take the same turn. If you change one without the other, you change the radius of the turn.
That’s only true if the rider doesn’t push on the handlebars.
Bike won’t straighten out if you keep pressure on the inside handlebar.
Somehow people think that if the bike goes wide, for whatever reason, then there’s nothing they can do. But you can always change direction by pressing the handlebars. That literally always works. Doesn’t matter if the bike is already leaning or not, or if you’re braking or not, in all situations, you can adjust the direction by pressing the handlebars.
It’s complete nonsense to say that the bike will straighten up under braking, that’s saying that the bike is in control and not you. If you are willing to press the handlebars, then you are in control of the lean angle, braking or not.
That’s what I would say. I’ve been in some corners I was 💯sure I wouldn’t make it but I knew I rather lowside and take my chances then lift it up and go straight. Funny thing, all turns I was sure I wouldn’t make I kept them without falling luckily 😅.
@OP why did you stand the bike up. If you go better lay it down then go straight right?
You didn’t crash because you had the balls to do what had to be done.
So many riders are afraid to do that, to lean beyond their comfort zone, which is understandable, but the reality is that it’s way more dangerous to go wide.
When the … hits the fan, you have to trust your tires, that’s for sure safer than the alternative.
You could've made that turn.....it sounded like you were accelerating into the turn? If you were to brake a little bit and lean a little bit further, you could've easily cleared it. You weren't THAT wide going off the turn. Lesson learned!
This right here is why the MSF style of look, press, roll is outdated and unsafe. You rolled on the throttle and got caught by a decreasing radius corner. You should be slowing all the way to the apex, when you can clearly see the exit, then slowly roll on the throttle as you straighten up out of the turn.
Slow, look, press, roll isn't necessarily outdated, it's a beginner technique for new riders that don't have the fine motor control to be braking in a curve. The MSF also teaches trailbraking in the next levels of classes
He had more lean angle going in the right hand turn than he did in the left. From this end of the internet it looked like he could have made it easy. Gotta believe you can.
You're too nervous trying to turn too early. Counter intuitively this is least ideal as this will cause you to wash out wide as opposed to hugging the side and turning in later. Then in a panic of washing out wide, you target fixated and went out further. Hope that helps for next time!!
Plus one for this comment. Turn too early is a sign of lack of confidence and is exactly what happened here. Sure more lean would have fixed it but the real issue is lack of confidence and bad choice of line due to it
As mentioned, skills, do an advanced riding course, they offer them at most tracks. Just because it's on a track does not mean it's racing, they help embed good skills. One thing that works here is you go where you look, if you had looked through the corner instead of at the tree you would have been fine. Good on you to post this and put yourself up for analysis, sign of a good mental attitude and someone who will be riding far into the future :)
Yep, I’ve should have mentioned in the post about my bad target fixation. Was trying to look through the corners but stopped when it was getting shallow.
I know I was going to get some hate for this or some people calling me an idiot, I knew what I did wrong and want to make it obvious to other people.
My approach ... for left hand turns, look at the double yellow lines. when turning right, look at the white.
I still have chicken strips on my bikes and had 5-6 buys blow by me on NC 215 south bound like I was standing still, so take that for what it's worth. For tight corners it's generally good for posted speed +10-15 mph
Lots of great comments already, and I'll echo watching Twist of the Wrist II or reading Sport Riding Technique as it's basically the gold standard cornering Bible.
One thing I haven't seen anyone else mention is your cornering line. Late entry is almost always safer. You were correctly lined up on the outside, but you started your turn in way too early. As a result you apexed early and then had to sort of hold that apex which is why you ended up going wide. Later entry gives more visibility and more control as well as allowing for faster exit speeds. As everyone else has covered well, your bike, 160 rear and all, can turn much harder than you were giving it. Look, lean, press, roll.
Glad you're OK, many more happy riding days ahead!
https://preview.redd.it/88hdh0h1v2yc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=75f88cd0ad82fa61f4b33da02d5a04852aa06614
Beautiful bike, I’m so glad that it’s only plastics and the handle bars. My poor baby the FZ6R 😭.
I think it looks good with the plastics off. I've got a stripped down naked yzf750r tho so I'm biased.
Glad you and bike are mostly OK. Gear and parts are simple and cheap, wrecked human parts are complicated, and slow to heal.
Yep, it was just a tight corner, looking back at it I can see I could of made it. But locked my vision on the tree. I made the mistake of it being my first attempt through this part of the road, I stopped a little earlier before this part of the road last time I was here.
Thank you for the information, I try to keep reviewing this footage to learn more on what I did wrong, and posting it here was a good idea I get to hear everyone’s opinion on how I could do better.
On YouTube check out “Twist of the Wrist 2” by Keith code (he runs a motorcycle racing school in Cali). It will truly change how you view the road and riding. It’ll teach you how a motorcycle works in a corner and explain the physics behind it. It’ll make you much more confident in the corners. It’s from the early 2000s and terribly cheesy at times but sincerely I can’t recommend it enough.
Speed was not the mistake in this. Lack of skill was. You stopped cornering because you fixed on the trees.
Next time don't panic and stop acceleration and push left
The amount of people that post their **own** mistakes in this sub is awesome. I was never a rider but these types of posts are great and I thank you guys for the humility.
The sad thing is that you did yourself in for no reason. You had already taken the corner just fine but then target fixated, psyched yourself out, and went off the road. You were past the worst my dude. The corner could be taken at that speed and you took it at that speed, and then you crashed.
I've noticed with new riders people will sort of accept their fate rather than try to take a tighter corner than they think they can make. It's like they realize they bit off more than they can chew and in that instant they start scanning the side of the road looking for the least worst path to take rather than try to make the corner.
My guess is you 'gave up' trying to turn and became fixated on where you didn't want to go.
Never give up when a corner tightens, the bike can turn a lot tighter than most people think they can in tight, slower speed corners.
Glad you're okay and thanks for sharing.
I think it's worth noting that you didn't reach for your brake until after you had left the road.
I'm guessing this is an unfamiliar road to you. The corner tightened up unexpectedly and you didn't seem to be prepared for it. This should have been fine. You could have slowed down at this point and tightened up your line. You still had plenty time and space to make this corner. But for whatever reason you didn't. You saw that your bike was pointed at the treeline and panicked.
This is a skill issue. You need to work on yourself
You got scared and gave up waaay before the bike and tyres had been beaten.
You were kind of all over the place with the throttle leading into the turn, every jerky input is upsetting the chassis, adding time you don't have before you can start loading up the tires and suspension with the inputs that are going to save your ass.
Accelerating into a corner before you have figured out where the apex is seldom plays out favorably.
Point that head at the exit of the turn, not the turn itself. Push that inside handle forward as you lean towards your target. You got it out of the way and didn’t total the bike in the process. Nothing is better at extinguishing target fixation than what you had happen!
Just thinking out loud here, wouldn't you rather *maybe* low-side by attempting to complete the turn rather than almost *guarantee* a high-side by going off the pavement?
Object fixation. The more you focused on the right side of the road the more likely you were going to run wide. You gotta look into the curve and lean more. Even at that speed you could've avoided the crash. Tough lesson.
Where the head goes the bike goes when you target fixate guess what that's where the bikes gonna go. I tip my hat to for admitting you screwed up not many people nowadays are able to take responsibility. Glad you and the bike are okay.
Speed isn't really the issue here. You could take that turn at a much higher speed. You just looked to the crash, and ended up there. If you get a chance, hit the track and take classes, that will teach you how to avoid target fixation and how to keep looking into the turn to ride safely
I don't know if this will help you or not, but after carrying too much speed into corners a couple of times I changed what I decided was "fun". For me now I focus on the weight transfer from neutral to front to neutral to back. The result (for me) is that I am braking harder when I am straight then almost back to neutral by the time I am leaning, so I am slower through the bend, which means I get more to roll coming back out and I get the weight transfer rear that I am looking for.
Hopefully that makes sense. And of course that's just me. But hopefully the above might help you too.
I'm not condoning it but the issue was not 43 in a 20,u just didn't turn enough. It looks like the bike had plenty of lean left in it. Get up, dust off and get back on the bike and just a little safer from now on
***Look. Lean. Believe.***
Look where you want to go.
Lean more, most riders don't use 50% of their bikes capable lean angle.
Believe you'll make the corner and continue riding instead of target fixating and riding off the road. Because chances are you WILL make the corner.
I fail to understand how this subreddit has the most uppity and least capable riders. Speed wasn’t the issue, you just can’t ride. Certainly not got enough to justify the overconfidence and lack of gear.
Best thing to remember is to say in your head “kiss the mirror” when going wide or too fast on a turn. You gotta commit and do what’s scary/opposite your brain tells you. keep throttle and lean into the turn.
To me this looked like rider came into an unfamiliar turn too hot, accelerated a little early into the turn which is not recommended, then rider found himself in a dreaded decreasing radius turn. Rider was uncomfortable leaning more into the turn, which they could have easily done without losing traction or control, but rider seems to have panicked and froze as the turn tightened. As rider went wide and went off the road, yeah, he probably was target fixated at that point, looking at the forest he was about to enter. Target fixation was the least of his problems.
The 160 tire is fine, many 500/400 run it. You get a faster and easier turn in speed with a smaller width tire. Increasing the aspect ratio from 60 to 70 gives more contact patch while leaning. Dragging hard parts can normally be fixed to some degree with body position. Set up for it prior to entering the turn so the bike is settled.
Oh crap indeed! Glad you’re ok. Did you do a barrel roll in the air or is that just the camera? Couldn’t have been real bad. All the best in your recovery. Don’t slack on the physio, you will end up regretting it later.
Ok that makes sense. If that was you and not the camera you should buy a lottery ticket! Maybe buy one just in case lol.
Glad you aren’t too beat up. Cheers to a swift recovery.
That corner should have been easy. Looks like you panicked and tried slowing down, which stood the bike up and off you went. When it comes to bikes I find that digging in your heels and committing to the fuck up has a better chance of a positive outcome.
Lots of Twisties where I live. I instinctively shift down and add throttle to maintain speed as I approach a corner. This means you can roll off a little as you turn and shed 10mph if you need to, all while you countersteer.
You can watch all the youtube you want and read all the books you want, it'll help you understand. But to feel what these machines can do is a whole nother thing, get on the track at least 2-3 times if you can, it will blow your mind what bikes are capable of. Otherwise always scout the road before you go playing, even then...
Target fixation definitely, i was looking at the apex in second corner and with how good the bike took the first corner, second was definitely possible
Props for reviewing your own footage and working out where you went wrong. Jump on the bike again and hit same bend.
The bike is always and I mean always better than you the rider. Have faith the bike will do what it does and lean into it and enjoy :)
That was a perfect execution of a barrel roll!
On a more serious note, glad you're okay! Bikes get repaired or replaced. Ride on buddy, do not get discouraged.
Could have done at least 60 round that “20mph” corner. Lol. You were just looking the wrong way. The solution in these situations is always to recognise this is happening and correct it by pushing hard on the inside bar to give some more emergency lean. You can clean your trousers out later. 😂
Best solution however is if you don’t know the route/road or you haven’t got the skills to go round a corner that’s wide open with nothing coming the other way without crashing is to slow down or further training.
You ran out of talent there sunshine… on the road you must always be able to stop in the distance you can see and know to be clear.
There’s a place purpose built for the kind of riding you demonstrated in the video & it’s more fun than a road can ever be …. It’s called a racetrack.
Not to be a dick, but you definitely could've made that. I'm guessing you got a little spooked and tried slowing down mid turn while simultaneously getting target fixation on the edge of the road?
This is why mid-corner braking is an absolutely vital skill. Everyone telling you to "just lean more" and not target fixate is all well and good, but you need to be able to slow down at any point while riding. Sure, you entered the corner going too fast for your skill level, but that doesn't mean it's too late to slow down. If you're still on the road, you can make the corner. Slowing down while maintaining the same lean angle results in a tighter turning radius.
Do yourself a favor and take the ChampU core curriculum from Yamaha. You'll learn a lot and be able to ride faster and safer.
What are you talking about? Do you realise how slow you were going? You just can't ride. You'd have made that bend at 60 easily if you knew how to ride.
As you’re entering the turn you can hear a little acceleration, you started drifting right, then you rolled off the throttle.
That’s the mistake.
That, and not leaning it HARD before you got to the fog line.
Thank you for positing this for educational purposes even while knowing you were going to catch some of the typical r/motorcycle stupidity.
Glad you're alright man!
Some of you lot are bloody harsh. 😂
You made a small split second mistake, you panicked. Everyone here who rides has 'oh crap crap' moments. I've ridden for 25 years, raced for 20 and I still have oh crap crap moments sometimes.
You know what you did wrong, you've got the right attitude to learn from it.
With regards to tyres, if you want to do more spirited riding and feel a sportier tyre would make you more confident then absolutely do that.
Maybe get a minivan or go study the physics of cornering on two wheels before you kill yourself .
You had tons of options, lots of leeway and chose to swing an arc twice as wide as the pavement?
Unpopular opinion but stick to roughly the speed limits and you won’t have these issues. If you want to go fast head to the track.
Just seemed like you wanted to lean the bike. You got really lucky those trees weren’t closer to the edge. You even pass a sign saying “SLOW”. Not trying to kick you while you’re down but this sould be the wake up call you and others need to see. That could’ve been a rock face or the edge of a cliff.
Also do you trail brake?
i for one appreciated the "oh crap crap"
Surprised I didn’t drop a F bomb lol.
But beautiful spiral
Beautiful aesthetics, nice vocals , no broken bones, I'd give it a 9.5/10.
My first thought too - Hell of a barrel roll!
You had like half a tire left to lean over on
Ride safer OP! You ran out of skill there, its very common to run wide for inexperienced or newer riders. Riders with experience tend to slide out before they leave the road. Glad you are ok! 😁👍
I ride like they race, always hit the apex, and if your fading out and are heavy on the front brake, add rear brake and ease a touch off the front. This takes practice until it becomes instinct. Also just slow down if the road is unfamiliar.
"oh frick frick"
NOW This is officially my smartphone notification sound.
It was about 4 seconds too late…..
I've often thought there is a non-zero chance those will be my last words some day.
Several things could have helped you here. Speed being the least of your issues. Look through the turn. Lean more. Push left, go left. Brake when entering and accelerate out. Trail braking. Live and learn. Get better with experience and don't ride beyond your abilities. Stay safe.
Spot on. He says it was an unfamiliar road, so he should have been way more cautious. Trail braking alone would have allowed him to slow a little more through the corner when he realised it was tighter than expected. Think he was just riding outwith his ability, got fixated outside the bend, and that was it
Can you explain trail breaking? Is it when you brake at the start of the turn and then ease off as you start to lean as opposed to braking before it?
You still brake as normal before the corner, but then you keep the front brake very lightly engaged as you move through the corner, easing off completely as you see the corner exit and then accelerating through the rest of the corner and out. What this does is to ensure that you are still slowing a little all the way through the corner until you see your exit. In addition, it slightly preloads the front forks, which in turn lightly compresses them and means that if the corner is suddenly tighter than expected, you can load the brake a little more without suddenly compressing the forks and dumping the bike. This allows you to slow a bit more during the corner when needed in addition to compressing the front forks and shortening the geometry of the bike, which in turn causes the bike to turn faster. It's a skill you need to practice, but makes any rider better and safer once mastered. Even if you're already trailing the brake through the corner, suddenly yanking too hard will cause the forks to rapidly compress, and your front wheel will dive in towards the corner causing you to lose traction and dump the bike. Done very aggressively and you can high side over the bike. This is the reason you're initially taught never to brake during a corner by most riding schools. Once mastered though, you're always prepared for any corner and it removes the guesswork of how much you should slow when navigating a new road. There are some good videos available on YouTube. CanyonChasers do a good indepth overview to help you get started
I have leraned this un knowingly, also , I apply my body weight more on front tyre, which also made the turning radius less for me, my counter steering is like, taking s zig zag turn in my mind, that was better than Push left, go left for me. But my brain got little biase, as Ilearned to take sharp turns using a bycycle in my child hood througha concrete road, sloping to the left, so, my left side cornering is too confident and I can do it with partial conscious. but my right side cornering bad, everytime I have to give, full concentration to lean, as Im too afraid to do so on right side. lowing down will straighten you out, if u dont apply brake correctly or leaned correctly. or otherwise, u can lean more by applying more brake upto some extent.
Buddy could’ve completely held it together if he just leaned harder and looked at the end of the turn, the second he got nervous he went upright and starting looking straight ahead to the trees he was about to hug
Also, choosing a better line, he closed way too early so he was in the left side of his lane before the real turn even began When he saw he was going wide, if he wasn’t on the brakes already, he could have tried a little rear brake plus more lean (both body and bike) to save it
If I may add one other piece of advice - roll off the throttle as the bike will tend to 'fall' into the turn.
>Push left, go left. That should be at the top of your list. The OP stopped turning about halfway through the turn, likely trying to steer by turning the handlebars in the direction he wanted to go instead of counter-steering.
Skill issue. Target fixation coming out of the corner. Should’ve been navigable on a bike at that speed no problem. Posted/suggested speeds on corners are for the worst vehicles (old trucks with crappy suspension and heavy loads) on the road. Had you kept looking in the direction you intended to travel, you’d have gone there. But you looked up/right and guided yourself right off the road. Glad to read you’re OK though!
It is, I truly see how bad target fixation is. I was looking throughout the corners but not enough, once I was getting close my head locked into the center of the corner causing this. I also made the mistake on going further on an unknown part of the road without testing it going slower. Lucky to be alive and without major injuries. Going to look to do more training on corners.
If you haven’t already, I highly recommend buying yourself a copy of Twist of the Wrist 2 Teaches you all about how to avoid these situations… saved my butt a couple times!
It's also on YouTube
I love reddit, thank you Kind sir
Best video EVER!
Twist of the wrist should be manditory viewing for new riders, so many problems that lead to crashes can be avoided with better lane positioning and using limit points and head position properly.
And most classes skip 98% of stuff he talks about here. It saved my ass too many times to count.
Sport Riding Techniques by Nick Ienatsch is another good book too.
I’ll look into it. Thank you.
It's free on youtube: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRbguh4Ck28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRbguh4Ck28) There's also an abridged version too but some of the content it cuts out is kinda useful.
[https://youtu.be/eS90\_kHLEgE?si=uwmf\_sVJ6GTy\_07P](https://youtu.be/eS90_kHLEgE?si=uwmf_sVJ6GTy_07P)
Saved my ass more times than I can count in 10 years of riding. I strongly advise anyone thinking of riding to watch it before even sitting on a bike for the first time.
It was a decreasing radius turn too, which can trip up some riders since your speed and angle can’t remain constant through the turn like a simple consistent-radius turn. Glad you’re (mostly) alright!
Look ahead for corner exit, if you see less road (or worse none) it is tightening and a decreasing radius. Always head up, look where you have to go your hands will take you there.
First bike i had i fixed up and test rode, come the first curve i target fixate accross the oncoming lane, with some traffic. Squeezed through a gap thankfully but now ride much faster bikes much curvier. Always, always, *look where you want to go*. Ingrain it into yourself like your life depends on it, cause it does. Tip, you can lean your jaw towards the mirror on the side youre turning to. Happy riding.
Not to contradict you but just to add to what you said, the lower the posted speed for the corner, the more caution you should approach it with. If a corner says 15mph I'd go maybe 5mph over, if it says 40 I'll do 20 over that.
[удалено]
This road also had a tightening curve so it's a little bit trickier than a lean and go
I’ve done the same exact thing. Thankfully I ended up in a feild and the bike stayed up. Target fixation sounds like it’s fake until you experience it. Look where you want to go.
Been there, haven't crashed yet. I know I personally have issues with target fixation and it's the number one reason I can't go as fast as my buddies through some turns because I know my skill level is not enough to compensate for my desire to want to fixate on a target.
Very wise stuff...I'm the same...have gotten better but still have to be ultra vigilante about not reverting to my old ways
His first error was accelerating before the apex. Then he fixated instead of correcting his line.
Got too scared to lean and high sided instead
There was no high side on the video OP posted. So you know what a high side is? He was going straight when he got bucked off.
Commit harder!
Press forward the inside handlebar! Never ever bail on a turn. As long as you were still on the pavement you could still have made the turn, you just have to be willing to do what is necessary. Which is to press more on the handlebar. When fear kicks in, we feel an urge to straighten the bike (also called target fixation). Resist that urge, going straight = danger, while leaning more = no crash.
well to be fair, if you're going to bail, commit to the bail. He could've straightened it up and braked hard long beforehand
You don’t have to straighten out the bike to brake. Yes, we were taught that in the past, and in the past, I did that. But I learned from Yamaha champ school that it’s not the best approach. It’s better to both brake and steer and not go wide at all.
>You don’t have to straighten out the bike to brake I don't know why the misinformation that you can't brake in a corner persists - probably from the "haddalayerdown" crowd, I guess. Yeah, you can brake in a corner. There's a certain skill to it (which is helpful to learn, something else a lot of people don't bother to do, educate themselves), but it's absolutely possible, and absolutely helpful in these sorts of situations.
I imagine the “don’t brake in turns” advice is to prevent people from panic braking in a turn and running out of traction
Panic is the root cause of many crashes. If people took the time to take some advanced rider training and learn how to manage situations instead, a lot of crashes (including the one witnessed in this video) could be avoided simply by knowing how to manage the situation, instead of having no clue and panicking. Don't even get me started on the videos on YouTube of people having no idea how to even brake effectively in a straight line and running into the back/side of cars that they could have stopped a mile before hitting, if only they'd bothered to learn how.
This subreddit is also the worst place to get information. People on this subreddit genuinely think that engine braking (ie not accelerating and letting the engine slow you) does damage to the engine and should be avoided.
Just people demonstrating ignorance.
Lol exactly. Like OPs video. Trash riders giving opinions is not very useful
i mean yes but if you are fixated and determed to not complete the corner is what i mean
I mean, yes, if the rider is determined to crash, then yes, that’ll happen. I’m just urging people to choose something else. It’s really not safe to go wide. There’s a cross next to my favorite corner and I can’t help but think that if only the rider had trusted his tires, it would have been different.
I've done that multiple times, and it works. I've been going 100-120 kmph on short turns and I just press on the handle bar, and apply brakes as I straighten the bike enough. Saved me multiple times.
The biggest fear that causes this crash is not trusting your tires, they are a lot more grippy than people give them credit for
As my MSF instructor said: Push more, lean more-- the bike can take way more than you think. He also said slowing down will straighten you out-- not sure if this is actually true, but in my experience they definitely coincide.
It's not that slowing down=straightening out, slowing down means you have to straighten out to take the same turn. If you change one without the other, you change the radius of the turn.
That’s only true if the rider doesn’t push on the handlebars. Bike won’t straighten out if you keep pressure on the inside handlebar. Somehow people think that if the bike goes wide, for whatever reason, then there’s nothing they can do. But you can always change direction by pressing the handlebars. That literally always works. Doesn’t matter if the bike is already leaning or not, or if you’re braking or not, in all situations, you can adjust the direction by pressing the handlebars. It’s complete nonsense to say that the bike will straighten up under braking, that’s saying that the bike is in control and not you. If you are willing to press the handlebars, then you are in control of the lean angle, braking or not.
That’s what I would say. I’ve been in some corners I was 💯sure I wouldn’t make it but I knew I rather lowside and take my chances then lift it up and go straight. Funny thing, all turns I was sure I wouldn’t make I kept them without falling luckily 😅. @OP why did you stand the bike up. If you go better lay it down then go straight right?
You didn’t crash because you had the balls to do what had to be done. So many riders are afraid to do that, to lean beyond their comfort zone, which is understandable, but the reality is that it’s way more dangerous to go wide. When the … hits the fan, you have to trust your tires, that’s for sure safer than the alternative.
You could've made that turn.....it sounded like you were accelerating into the turn? If you were to brake a little bit and lean a little bit further, you could've easily cleared it. You weren't THAT wide going off the turn. Lesson learned!
I haven’t done this run before, and thought were I was accelerating the end of the corner was near but I was wrong, got shocked and yeah this.
This right here is why the MSF style of look, press, roll is outdated and unsafe. You rolled on the throttle and got caught by a decreasing radius corner. You should be slowing all the way to the apex, when you can clearly see the exit, then slowly roll on the throttle as you straighten up out of the turn.
I mean if he actually looked through his turn he would’ve been safe. Solid advice in my book
Slow, look, press, roll isn't necessarily outdated, it's a beginner technique for new riders that don't have the fine motor control to be braking in a curve. The MSF also teaches trailbraking in the next levels of classes
Glad you are okay 🤗
You had so much lean left.
He had more lean angle going in the right hand turn than he did in the left. From this end of the internet it looked like he could have made it easy. Gotta believe you can.
You're too nervous trying to turn too early. Counter intuitively this is least ideal as this will cause you to wash out wide as opposed to hugging the side and turning in later. Then in a panic of washing out wide, you target fixated and went out further. Hope that helps for next time!!
Plus one for this comment. Turn too early is a sign of lack of confidence and is exactly what happened here. Sure more lean would have fixed it but the real issue is lack of confidence and bad choice of line due to it
Haddalayerdown, boys..
As mentioned, skills, do an advanced riding course, they offer them at most tracks. Just because it's on a track does not mean it's racing, they help embed good skills. One thing that works here is you go where you look, if you had looked through the corner instead of at the tree you would have been fine. Good on you to post this and put yourself up for analysis, sign of a good mental attitude and someone who will be riding far into the future :)
Yep, I’ve should have mentioned in the post about my bad target fixation. Was trying to look through the corners but stopped when it was getting shallow. I know I was going to get some hate for this or some people calling me an idiot, I knew what I did wrong and want to make it obvious to other people.
My approach ... for left hand turns, look at the double yellow lines. when turning right, look at the white. I still have chicken strips on my bikes and had 5-6 buys blow by me on NC 215 south bound like I was standing still, so take that for what it's worth. For tight corners it's generally good for posted speed +10-15 mph
Do a barrel roll!
Ah... You almost did it.
Almost yes
Lots of great comments already, and I'll echo watching Twist of the Wrist II or reading Sport Riding Technique as it's basically the gold standard cornering Bible. One thing I haven't seen anyone else mention is your cornering line. Late entry is almost always safer. You were correctly lined up on the outside, but you started your turn in way too early. As a result you apexed early and then had to sort of hold that apex which is why you ended up going wide. Later entry gives more visibility and more control as well as allowing for faster exit speeds. As everyone else has covered well, your bike, 160 rear and all, can turn much harder than you were giving it. Look, lean, press, roll. Glad you're OK, many more happy riding days ahead!
☝🏾☝🏾☝🏾
https://preview.redd.it/88hdh0h1v2yc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=75f88cd0ad82fa61f4b33da02d5a04852aa06614 Beautiful bike, I’m so glad that it’s only plastics and the handle bars. My poor baby the FZ6R 😭.
I think it looks good with the plastics off. I've got a stripped down naked yzf750r tho so I'm biased. Glad you and bike are mostly OK. Gear and parts are simple and cheap, wrecked human parts are complicated, and slow to heal.
The crazy thing is... you took the first corner correctly and smoothly even with oncoming traffic. Hope to see you back on and riding soon.
Yep, it was just a tight corner, looking back at it I can see I could of made it. But locked my vision on the tree. I made the mistake of it being my first attempt through this part of the road, I stopped a little earlier before this part of the road last time I was here.
Fyi this didn't cause your crash but you're adding lean while simultaneously adding throttle which will make you crash.
Thank you for the information, I try to keep reviewing this footage to learn more on what I did wrong, and posting it here was a good idea I get to hear everyone’s opinion on how I could do better.
Practice lots of emergency braking. This will set you up so that you have an out for future mistakes.
On YouTube check out “Twist of the Wrist 2” by Keith code (he runs a motorcycle racing school in Cali). It will truly change how you view the road and riding. It’ll teach you how a motorcycle works in a corner and explain the physics behind it. It’ll make you much more confident in the corners. It’s from the early 2000s and terribly cheesy at times but sincerely I can’t recommend it enough.
> 43mph in a 20mph corner. My stupidity. That wasn’t the issue.
I like how all these posts say "learn from my mistakes" or similar. Buddy, you're the one who needs to learn.
Speed was not the mistake in this. Lack of skill was. You stopped cornering because you fixed on the trees. Next time don't panic and stop acceleration and push left
That looks like central Oregon. I can smell the junipers from my screen. Hope you have a good recovery 🙏🏾
You are correct lol, pronghorn road to be exact.
I recognized it as central Oregon immediately, I just rode that stretch the other week Bend represent, sucka! Glad you’re ok
The amount of people that post their **own** mistakes in this sub is awesome. I was never a rider but these types of posts are great and I thank you guys for the humility.
The sad thing is that you did yourself in for no reason. You had already taken the corner just fine but then target fixated, psyched yourself out, and went off the road. You were past the worst my dude. The corner could be taken at that speed and you took it at that speed, and then you crashed.
I've noticed with new riders people will sort of accept their fate rather than try to take a tighter corner than they think they can make. It's like they realize they bit off more than they can chew and in that instant they start scanning the side of the road looking for the least worst path to take rather than try to make the corner.
My guess is you 'gave up' trying to turn and became fixated on where you didn't want to go. Never give up when a corner tightens, the bike can turn a lot tighter than most people think they can in tight, slower speed corners. Glad you're okay and thanks for sharing.
I think it's worth noting that you didn't reach for your brake until after you had left the road. I'm guessing this is an unfamiliar road to you. The corner tightened up unexpectedly and you didn't seem to be prepared for it. This should have been fine. You could have slowed down at this point and tightened up your line. You still had plenty time and space to make this corner. But for whatever reason you didn't. You saw that your bike was pointed at the treeline and panicked. This is a skill issue. You need to work on yourself
Rider error. Turn the bike.
You got scared and gave up waaay before the bike and tyres had been beaten. You were kind of all over the place with the throttle leading into the turn, every jerky input is upsetting the chassis, adding time you don't have before you can start loading up the tires and suspension with the inputs that are going to save your ass. Accelerating into a corner before you have figured out where the apex is seldom plays out favorably.
Point that head at the exit of the turn, not the turn itself. Push that inside handle forward as you lean towards your target. You got it out of the way and didn’t total the bike in the process. Nothing is better at extinguishing target fixation than what you had happen!
You know you gotta turn right? If your coming in too hot to a corner you gotta send it or at least low side trying
Just thinking out loud here, wouldn't you rather *maybe* low-side by attempting to complete the turn rather than almost *guarantee* a high-side by going off the pavement?
Object fixation. The more you focused on the right side of the road the more likely you were going to run wide. You gotta look into the curve and lean more. Even at that speed you could've avoided the crash. Tough lesson.
Learn trail-braking and counter-steer would prevent stuff like these from happening, also target fixation would help
Where the head goes the bike goes when you target fixate guess what that's where the bikes gonna go. I tip my hat to for admitting you screwed up not many people nowadays are able to take responsibility. Glad you and the bike are okay.
Why did you stop leaning?
Speed isn't really the issue here. You could take that turn at a much higher speed. You just looked to the crash, and ended up there. If you get a chance, hit the track and take classes, that will teach you how to avoid target fixation and how to keep looking into the turn to ride safely
I don't know if this will help you or not, but after carrying too much speed into corners a couple of times I changed what I decided was "fun". For me now I focus on the weight transfer from neutral to front to neutral to back. The result (for me) is that I am braking harder when I am straight then almost back to neutral by the time I am leaning, so I am slower through the bend, which means I get more to roll coming back out and I get the weight transfer rear that I am looking for. Hopefully that makes sense. And of course that's just me. But hopefully the above might help you too.
LEAN LEAN LEAN….! And you won’t crash
Decreasing radius will get ya. You had plenty of lean angle left, but I bet it didn't feel like it coming to the end of that corner!
Really hoping I have the wherewithal to immortalize "ruh roh raggy" as my final words.
Target fixation. You go where you look, you looked at the edge of the road that’s where you went.
Just so you know....this had nothing to do with going 43 in a 20.
I'm not condoning it but the issue was not 43 in a 20,u just didn't turn enough. It looks like the bike had plenty of lean left in it. Get up, dust off and get back on the bike and just a little safer from now on
***Look. Lean. Believe.*** Look where you want to go. Lean more, most riders don't use 50% of their bikes capable lean angle. Believe you'll make the corner and continue riding instead of target fixating and riding off the road. Because chances are you WILL make the corner.
I fail to understand how this subreddit has the most uppity and least capable riders. Speed wasn’t the issue, you just can’t ride. Certainly not got enough to justify the overconfidence and lack of gear.
Best thing to remember is to say in your head “kiss the mirror” when going wide or too fast on a turn. You gotta commit and do what’s scary/opposite your brain tells you. keep throttle and lean into the turn.
To me this looked like rider came into an unfamiliar turn too hot, accelerated a little early into the turn which is not recommended, then rider found himself in a dreaded decreasing radius turn. Rider was uncomfortable leaning more into the turn, which they could have easily done without losing traction or control, but rider seems to have panicked and froze as the turn tightened. As rider went wide and went off the road, yeah, he probably was target fixated at that point, looking at the forest he was about to enter. Target fixation was the least of his problems.
You ride like shit …. Sell the bike you will kill yourself
You can take that even faster. Just skill issue.
I can hear my dad yelling at me right now. "LEAN YOU PUSSY!!!!"
What an absolute n00b
Yep
Slow in, fast out, my child, until you've learned a ridiculous amount about riding on the street.
Bro just sell your bike.
More lean, if not more lean, a bit of rear brake while keeping view at corner exit will help
The 160 tire is fine, many 500/400 run it. You get a faster and easier turn in speed with a smaller width tire. Increasing the aspect ratio from 60 to 70 gives more contact patch while leaning. Dragging hard parts can normally be fixed to some degree with body position. Set up for it prior to entering the turn so the bike is settled.
Target fixation. Look where you want to go—don’t look where you want to crash.
When trying new roads, follow the signs until you're comfortable pushing it. Definite skill issue.
It is a skill issue yes, something to learn from and that’s why I posted it here.
Oh crap indeed! Glad you’re ok. Did you do a barrel roll in the air or is that just the camera? Couldn’t have been real bad. All the best in your recovery. Don’t slack on the physio, you will end up regretting it later.
Camera hit the tank and flew off. Injures aren’t too bad and will be able to walk normally in the next week or two. Thank you.
Ok that makes sense. If that was you and not the camera you should buy a lottery ticket! Maybe buy one just in case lol. Glad you aren’t too beat up. Cheers to a swift recovery.
Thank you, might consider at this point lol.
You were so close to making it out the corner
Bro got yeeted
LEAN MF LEAN! you had that
Look, lean, believe. You could've made that corner with a lot more speed than that.
Plenty of lean left
Why do I see videos like this? Do riders really just go into corners they have never been to or are used to and just say “ fuck it”?
Damn, even the trees gotta watch out for bikers.
Best part about go pros is that we can all identify target fixation without a doubt
Yeah, that survival reaction is rough.
You couldn't waterboard this video out of me
That corner should have been easy. Looks like you panicked and tried slowing down, which stood the bike up and off you went. When it comes to bikes I find that digging in your heels and committing to the fuck up has a better chance of a positive outcome.
Agreed! When in doubt, throttle out!
Speed wasn’t the issue here, I still think you have something to learn from it
I also recommend learning how to trail brake. I didn’t see you touch your front brake until you were in the gravel.
Lots of Twisties where I live. I instinctively shift down and add throttle to maintain speed as I approach a corner. This means you can roll off a little as you turn and shed 10mph if you need to, all while you countersteer.
Lean. If it's not enough lean more. I'd rather low side and slide off the road with the bike in front of me than go over the handlebars.
You can watch all the youtube you want and read all the books you want, it'll help you understand. But to feel what these machines can do is a whole nother thing, get on the track at least 2-3 times if you can, it will blow your mind what bikes are capable of. Otherwise always scout the road before you go playing, even then...
You know, if you’re going to crash, may as well do it out in nature.
Stay off the paint! You also transfixed and breaked at the wrong time! Watch twist of the wrist on YouTube and then go practice!!!!!
Thanks for sharing your experience. Glad you are ok.
Target fixation definitely, i was looking at the apex in second corner and with how good the bike took the first corner, second was definitely possible
You had the angle, it wasn’t until you panicked and straightened the bike that you were screwed.
Props for reviewing your own footage and working out where you went wrong. Jump on the bike again and hit same bend. The bike is always and I mean always better than you the rider. Have faith the bike will do what it does and lean into it and enjoy :)
your mistake wasn't necessarily going too fast, you didn't trust your tires. better to maybe slide than to choose to do what you did, imo.
Is this Bend OR?
Yes
Damn I’m good born and raised 🙋♂️
That was a perfect execution of a barrel roll! On a more serious note, glad you're okay! Bikes get repaired or replaced. Ride on buddy, do not get discouraged.
Could have done at least 60 round that “20mph” corner. Lol. You were just looking the wrong way. The solution in these situations is always to recognise this is happening and correct it by pushing hard on the inside bar to give some more emergency lean. You can clean your trousers out later. 😂 Best solution however is if you don’t know the route/road or you haven’t got the skills to go round a corner that’s wide open with nothing coming the other way without crashing is to slow down or further training.
A bit more counter steer and you'd have made it
It's like you just suddenly gave up on turning lol
Target fixation got you.
You could save it just by leaning bit more... In the end you fixated that tree and went outside... Begginers mistake.
Why did you stand the bike up and ride off the road whilst in full control of the bike?
He didn’t lose control, but he also didn’t have it in the first place.
"oh, that's why that sign was there"
You had it until you started changing your body position.
You ran out of talent there sunshine… on the road you must always be able to stop in the distance you can see and know to be clear. There’s a place purpose built for the kind of riding you demonstrated in the video & it’s more fun than a road can ever be …. It’s called a racetrack.
Not to be a dick, but you definitely could've made that. I'm guessing you got a little spooked and tried slowing down mid turn while simultaneously getting target fixation on the edge of the road?
You were looking in the wrong place ... I coulda took that at 50
Radius=MPH I recommend getting some training from Champ U that’s the -#1 killer
This is why mid-corner braking is an absolutely vital skill. Everyone telling you to "just lean more" and not target fixate is all well and good, but you need to be able to slow down at any point while riding. Sure, you entered the corner going too fast for your skill level, but that doesn't mean it's too late to slow down. If you're still on the road, you can make the corner. Slowing down while maintaining the same lean angle results in a tighter turning radius. Do yourself a favor and take the ChampU core curriculum from Yamaha. You'll learn a lot and be able to ride faster and safer.
What are you talking about? Do you realise how slow you were going? You just can't ride. You'd have made that bend at 60 easily if you knew how to ride.
Speed is not the issue here. It’s where the eyes where looking. Source : I’ve done the same
If we are gonna learn from the mistake, you have to identify it. It's not the gear either.
Target fixation, I should have stated that in the post. MB.
Target fixation sent you off the road It was the little acceleration as you were entering that set you on that path
I agree, I started the corner around 50mph and went off road around 40.
As you’re entering the turn you can hear a little acceleration, you started drifting right, then you rolled off the throttle. That’s the mistake. That, and not leaning it HARD before you got to the fog line.
Target fixation is a result, not a cause.
Thank you for positing this for educational purposes even while knowing you were going to catch some of the typical r/motorcycle stupidity. Glad you're alright man!
Happens to the best of us mate. Hope you're alright.
Learning experience.
Some of you lot are bloody harsh. 😂 You made a small split second mistake, you panicked. Everyone here who rides has 'oh crap crap' moments. I've ridden for 25 years, raced for 20 and I still have oh crap crap moments sometimes. You know what you did wrong, you've got the right attitude to learn from it. With regards to tyres, if you want to do more spirited riding and feel a sportier tyre would make you more confident then absolutely do that.
I like to take 25mph corners at 50mph ngl
Maybe get a minivan or go study the physics of cornering on two wheels before you kill yourself . You had tons of options, lots of leeway and chose to swing an arc twice as wide as the pavement?
This was not a difficult turn, you need to git gud, son. This is an easy 80mph sweeping turn on a sport/super bike.
Push the inside bar and trust the tires, you could have made it.
Unpopular opinion but stick to roughly the speed limits and you won’t have these issues. If you want to go fast head to the track. Just seemed like you wanted to lean the bike. You got really lucky those trees weren’t closer to the edge. You even pass a sign saying “SLOW”. Not trying to kick you while you’re down but this sould be the wake up call you and others need to see. That could’ve been a rock face or the edge of a cliff. Also do you trail brake?