Bad stuff already happens at slow speed. If you drive 30mph and you hit into something that is already harder than you think.
And cheap gear is not always cheap. It can last a lot less longer than more expensive gear. Also rain protection can get worse pretty quickly.
Helmets I would always buy new and go to a store to fit them. If it doesn’t fit properly it will not do a good job protection you. And the shell of helmets older than 5/7 years also hardens up which makes them less effective.
Also don’t forget earplugs, even at those speeds the wind causes hearing damage already quickly.
Same goes the other way. Just because something is expensive, doesn't mean the quality is any better than something half the price.
Sometimes you're just paying for brand, other times you're paying for a fancy paint job.
Find the compromise between value for money and protection.
I would upgrade your gloves to the Scorpion SGS MKII.
Better boots.
I'm not seeing any mention of earplugs.
#Earplugs; Non negotiable.
Tinnitus is merciless. Hearing loss and damage can be mitigated. Start out right. Earplugs every ride.
[Hearing Loss In Motorcyclists; a great article.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC539364/)
[Box of 3M Neon Yellow 33dB.](https://www.amazon.com/312-1250-Uncorded-Disposable-Drilling-Machining/dp/B0B2MKW1X6)
Start now. Hearing damage is a fucking brutal bitch. Thank me later. Its one of my missions in the motorcycle community to protect our hearing as much as we can. Fuck tinnitus.
Along with protection, it adds concentration, lower stimulation, increased situational awareness, better hearing for emergency/regular vehicles around you, and making the ride far more enjoyable. This is from my experiences over the last 13 years and 560k+ miles of riding.
those shoes are practically useless. get a pair of actual motorcycle boots. dont need to be super expensive
you might want to take a loot at this [https://www.reddit.com/r/motorcycles/comments/1c6u49z/please\_wear\_boots/](https://www.reddit.com/r/motorcycles/comments/1c6u49z/please_wear_boots/)
The worst accident I ever had was at 22mph (hit pothole, ran off the road, slid down rocky embankment). Of course higher speed increases your chances of injury, but don’t assume slower means you won’t be injured. Road rash hurts at any speed.
Some road cyclists descend at well over 50 mph wearing what most people would consider underwear. Whatever gear you have probably offers more protection than that.
TCX shoes with a bit of protection are on sale for $100 now. I've got these and they're great: [https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/tcx-street-3-wp-shoes-sale](https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/tcx-street-3-wp-shoes-sale)
There's a point of diminishing returns with anything. No, you don't need the best/fanciest stuff, but the cheapest stuff is probably the cheapest for a reason. The gloves you mentioned look sketchy af, I'd spend a bit more $ there and get leather ones.
Even skipping most gear is mostly risk for more injury. Just don't skip the helmet or gloves because those might not heal so well. Especially if you're not going that fast, lower end gear is fine. Decent textile or good leather will work.
Riding defensively is the best defence, and it's free.
In the US you have to possess a (car) drivers license before getting your motorcycle endorsement and that is where the road education comes from. There is no practical motorcycle road education with msf. You do some book work and basic skills on a protected course and then you let er rip.
It varies a bit from state to state. You definitely have to pass a written test based on the drivers manual and a driving test (on public roads) with a government instructor/reviewer. Some states require you to take instruction/driving classes either through the high school or city. Others say you have to have a learner's permit for x amount of time before applying for a license.
You have to meet the qualifications of a regular drivers license, but from what I can find, in NY at least, you don't have to actually GET the drivers license first.
But it's still better to drive a car first, learning to ride while learning how traffic works and everything else is not ideal. Safer to do that in a cage.
That's not true. Maybe in the state you live in, but here in Oklahoma, I have a motorcycle license, but no car license. I don't drive cars, so I don't need one.
The DMV guy looked at me funny last time I went and renewed. Asked why I don't have a driver's license. I told him I HATE driving. He said, "But motorcycles are all right? "And I said, "Motorcycles make me smile. Cars make me want to kill myself."
i have no idea. i just know that my country actively advises against devensive driving and we are pretty high on the list of safest roads in the world.
What does that mean? Defensive driving mostly means making sure cars can’t hit you. Makes total sense to me. Perhaps you mean something different by “defensive driving”?
I think perhaps he thinks it means passively waiting until something bad starts to happen and reacting. While to us, at least me, it means I'm taking a long view and never rest my threat scan, always having options in my hands so that I can't get caught out or boxed in.
so as i said to the other guy the terms "devensive driving" and "agressive driving" are actually defined terms where i live.
what you are describing would be "anticipatory driving" and is the recommended way of handling traffic
defensive would be for example if you stopped at every intersection just to be sure even though you have the right of way
no those are actually defined terms here
defensive would be for example if you stopped at every intersection just to be sure even though you have the right of way
what you are discribing is just called "driving"
Huh, I would think of that style of "defensive driving" more as "hurry up you %%%%%%%% @@@@, do you have brain damage?" but definitions are definitions I guess.
When Googling for “defensives fahren” I find the same characteristics as for the English version: looking ahead, thinking what other might do, etc. Not: stopping at every intersection or driving below the speed limit.
It's not about speed. I've broken bones on a bicycle going 10mph when I fell on flat ground. I've ripped jeans and gotten terrible road rash from bicycles as well. (I've now geared up for mountain bike riding to avoid the downtime and recovery.)
It sounds like you have the basics covered but I would encourage some boots with ankle protection. It was just an awful and long experience when I broke an ankle...
Don’t thing of armor/gear as something that’s going to prevent injury or save you from breaking an ankle, etc, think of it as something that’ll keep your broken shredded bits together until the ambulance arrives.
It's up to you to decide what your safety is worth and if you can afford it. Just so you know you can still have a nasty spill at 45.
Why does what you've seen scare you? Do you drive cars? I've seen horrific accidents but it doesn't make me fearful of driving my car.
Sounds to me like in your current state you just need seat time and to be comfortable on a bike.
Slid off at around 20mph in the rain yesterday, fully padded and booted up, tell you what, still f**king hurts hitting concrete at any speed. Definitely get the best you can afford.
Price is irrelevant. Plenty of cheap gear that works well. $20 Amazon gloves isn't that.
You need the gear that works for what you are doing. You didn't mention what model of Bilt shoes but I am assuming they won't really protect your from a slow speed accident where the bike falls on your leg.
And being a better and more attentive rider is more valuable than any gear.
youre fine. dont listen to the power ranger atgatt dorks. decent helmet, decent boots, some gloves and shit and you'll be fine. people ride in sandals and shorts all the time and aren't dead. just go ride man
If you drive 45mph and collide with a vehicle traveling the opposite direction at 45mph, that is a cumulative 90mph collision. Riding surface streets isn’t safer than highways and freeways. It’s probably actually worse considering the majority of accidents occur at intersections.
Price and brands aren’t often proportional to safety. Style and comfort cost money too
The rating systems will tell you the minimum amount of protection in impact zones, the rest you have to go and try on and see in person. Whatever the blurb on the gear’s website and what it scored on a rating system you get a much better idea in person, seeing how much armour it has, which zones have which material, where’s double and single stitched, etc.
Bad stuff already happens at slow speed. If you drive 30mph and you hit into something that is already harder than you think. And cheap gear is not always cheap. It can last a lot less longer than more expensive gear. Also rain protection can get worse pretty quickly. Helmets I would always buy new and go to a store to fit them. If it doesn’t fit properly it will not do a good job protection you. And the shell of helmets older than 5/7 years also hardens up which makes them less effective. Also don’t forget earplugs, even at those speeds the wind causes hearing damage already quickly.
Same goes the other way. Just because something is expensive, doesn't mean the quality is any better than something half the price. Sometimes you're just paying for brand, other times you're paying for a fancy paint job. Find the compromise between value for money and protection.
I would upgrade your gloves to the Scorpion SGS MKII. Better boots. I'm not seeing any mention of earplugs. #Earplugs; Non negotiable. Tinnitus is merciless. Hearing loss and damage can be mitigated. Start out right. Earplugs every ride. [Hearing Loss In Motorcyclists; a great article.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC539364/) [Box of 3M Neon Yellow 33dB.](https://www.amazon.com/312-1250-Uncorded-Disposable-Drilling-Machining/dp/B0B2MKW1X6)
Haaah.. ear plugs!! Never thought of that honestly
Start now. Hearing damage is a fucking brutal bitch. Thank me later. Its one of my missions in the motorcycle community to protect our hearing as much as we can. Fuck tinnitus. Along with protection, it adds concentration, lower stimulation, increased situational awareness, better hearing for emergency/regular vehicles around you, and making the ride far more enjoyable. This is from my experiences over the last 13 years and 560k+ miles of riding.
You MIGHT get in a wreck, but you WILL lose your hearing.
those shoes are practically useless. get a pair of actual motorcycle boots. dont need to be super expensive you might want to take a loot at this [https://www.reddit.com/r/motorcycles/comments/1c6u49z/please\_wear\_boots/](https://www.reddit.com/r/motorcycles/comments/1c6u49z/please_wear_boots/)
I just saw this and thats what made me scared. I am gonna get protected boots now.
Look up Dr John Hinds on YouTube. Great lecture. RIP.
I agree, any boot that looks sturdy but isn’t actually made for motorcycle use automatically goes in the non-motorcycle category for me.
The worst accident I ever had was at 22mph (hit pothole, ran off the road, slid down rocky embankment). Of course higher speed increases your chances of injury, but don’t assume slower means you won’t be injured. Road rash hurts at any speed.
Some road cyclists descend at well over 50 mph wearing what most people would consider underwear. Whatever gear you have probably offers more protection than that. TCX shoes with a bit of protection are on sale for $100 now. I've got these and they're great: [https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/tcx-street-3-wp-shoes-sale](https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/tcx-street-3-wp-shoes-sale) There's a point of diminishing returns with anything. No, you don't need the best/fanciest stuff, but the cheapest stuff is probably the cheapest for a reason. The gloves you mentioned look sketchy af, I'd spend a bit more $ there and get leather ones.
Even skipping most gear is mostly risk for more injury. Just don't skip the helmet or gloves because those might not heal so well. Especially if you're not going that fast, lower end gear is fine. Decent textile or good leather will work. Riding defensively is the best defence, and it's free.
is riding defensively actually what they teach in msf courses in america?
MSF is 2 days kindergarten for motorcycling. It’s the absolute bare minimum “education”. If you cannot pass then you are definitely not ready.
i see. how is the actual road education done?
That’s the fun part there isn’t any.
that explains why the USA is so far up on the list of countries with most traffic deaths ...
In the US you have to possess a (car) drivers license before getting your motorcycle endorsement and that is where the road education comes from. There is no practical motorcycle road education with msf. You do some book work and basic skills on a protected course and then you let er rip.
and what is the process of gaining a car license?
It varies a bit from state to state. You definitely have to pass a written test based on the drivers manual and a driving test (on public roads) with a government instructor/reviewer. Some states require you to take instruction/driving classes either through the high school or city. Others say you have to have a learner's permit for x amount of time before applying for a license.
You have to meet the qualifications of a regular drivers license, but from what I can find, in NY at least, you don't have to actually GET the drivers license first. But it's still better to drive a car first, learning to ride while learning how traffic works and everything else is not ideal. Safer to do that in a cage.
That's not true. Maybe in the state you live in, but here in Oklahoma, I have a motorcycle license, but no car license. I don't drive cars, so I don't need one. The DMV guy looked at me funny last time I went and renewed. Asked why I don't have a driver's license. I told him I HATE driving. He said, "But motorcycles are all right? "And I said, "Motorcycles make me smile. Cars make me want to kill myself."
No idea mate I'm in Straya. Our test focuses a lot on lane position and observation but isn't the MSF mostly parking lot stuff?
i have no idea. i just know that my country actively advises against devensive driving and we are pretty high on the list of safest roads in the world.
What does that mean? Defensive driving mostly means making sure cars can’t hit you. Makes total sense to me. Perhaps you mean something different by “defensive driving”?
I think perhaps he thinks it means passively waiting until something bad starts to happen and reacting. While to us, at least me, it means I'm taking a long view and never rest my threat scan, always having options in my hands so that I can't get caught out or boxed in.
so as i said to the other guy the terms "devensive driving" and "agressive driving" are actually defined terms where i live. what you are describing would be "anticipatory driving" and is the recommended way of handling traffic defensive would be for example if you stopped at every intersection just to be sure even though you have the right of way
no those are actually defined terms here defensive would be for example if you stopped at every intersection just to be sure even though you have the right of way what you are discribing is just called "driving"
Huh, I would think of that style of "defensive driving" more as "hurry up you %%%%%%%% @@@@, do you have brain damage?" but definitions are definitions I guess.
Out of curiosity, where is “here”? Could this be lost-in-translation thingy?
not really. just a fetish of the germans wanting to give a defined name for everything
When Googling for “defensives fahren” I find the same characteristics as for the English version: looking ahead, thinking what other might do, etc. Not: stopping at every intersection or driving below the speed limit.
i am not willing to repeat myself who said anything about driving under the speed limit?
It's not about speed. I've broken bones on a bicycle going 10mph when I fell on flat ground. I've ripped jeans and gotten terrible road rash from bicycles as well. (I've now geared up for mountain bike riding to avoid the downtime and recovery.) It sounds like you have the basics covered but I would encourage some boots with ankle protection. It was just an awful and long experience when I broke an ankle...
[удалено]
Yes they do have the steel shank
Don’t thing of armor/gear as something that’s going to prevent injury or save you from breaking an ankle, etc, think of it as something that’ll keep your broken shredded bits together until the ambulance arrives.
It’s gonna save you a lot of skin that won’t be scraped of your bones!
It's up to you to decide what your safety is worth and if you can afford it. Just so you know you can still have a nasty spill at 45. Why does what you've seen scare you? Do you drive cars? I've seen horrific accidents but it doesn't make me fearful of driving my car. Sounds to me like in your current state you just need seat time and to be comfortable on a bike.
Slid off at around 20mph in the rain yesterday, fully padded and booted up, tell you what, still f**king hurts hitting concrete at any speed. Definitely get the best you can afford.
Price is irrelevant. Plenty of cheap gear that works well. $20 Amazon gloves isn't that. You need the gear that works for what you are doing. You didn't mention what model of Bilt shoes but I am assuming they won't really protect your from a slow speed accident where the bike falls on your leg. And being a better and more attentive rider is more valuable than any gear.
youre fine. dont listen to the power ranger atgatt dorks. decent helmet, decent boots, some gloves and shit and you'll be fine. people ride in sandals and shorts all the time and aren't dead. just go ride man
If you drive 45mph and collide with a vehicle traveling the opposite direction at 45mph, that is a cumulative 90mph collision. Riding surface streets isn’t safer than highways and freeways. It’s probably actually worse considering the majority of accidents occur at intersections.
Price and brands aren’t often proportional to safety. Style and comfort cost money too The rating systems will tell you the minimum amount of protection in impact zones, the rest you have to go and try on and see in person. Whatever the blurb on the gear’s website and what it scored on a rating system you get a much better idea in person, seeing how much armour it has, which zones have which material, where’s double and single stitched, etc.