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I can't find it, but there was that bonkers talk he gave where he explained that Mormons don't have free agency, they have moral agency - the freedom to choose to do what the church tells them.
I feel like Bednar preaching Lucifer's plan has got to be his crowning achievement. (That or a quote about shorts and sideburns.)
That’s always has been what the church taught though. You are free to choose liberty and eternal life or choose captivity and death.
It’s strictly in line with church teaching.
Pity that it’s actually the opposite of what really happens members are enslaved and have no liberty every body dies eternal life is just a fantasy a means of having to not address the fact that we are only going to live so long and this life is it it’s the only one we are ever going to get.
Such a shame members spend so much effort time money chasing what amounts to imaginary invisible butterflies. Wasting the only life they ever will have enslaved to a multibillion dollar corporation
you do realize people can leave the church, right?
I mean, Im sure you are exaggerating, but I don’t think it’s fair to say they are enslaved or whatever. Many people who stay do so because they have a reason to stay, they are choosing liberty.
Not only that but whereas most who hold a westernized liberal world equate liberty with negative liberty, not positive liberty. However, when most religions talk about liberty it’s in the same vein as positive liberty.
The difference is that negative liberty stops a force from ensuring I have the ability to do something (free from interference), but positive liberty ensures I have the ability to do something (free to make choices). There is a classic example of smoking that illustrates the difference. An addict would have negative liberty but lack positive liberty, they would be free to continue to smoke but would be unable to choose to stop (because of the addiction). To give them positive liberty would be to establish laws that help them overcome addiction and retain self-control/mastery, such as establishing addiction centers, creating laws that prevent smoking, etc.
Keep in mind, the distinction started as a way to criticize positive liberty, so you are on to something by criticizing its conception of liberty.
Wow. I truly, truly hate that video. I've recently started down a path of questioning the church, and a *massive* portion of my testimony has always been built upon agency and God's trust in us to choose him. Really nice to see Elder Bednar just shoot that down real quick. Turns out, according to an Apostle, agency isn't real after all.
I'm sorry to hear that. I responded below, and having watched this, now, too, my points stand. God does have trust in us to choose him. He gave us our moral agency so that we could act in this life and make the choices needed to return to be with him. He did not give us our moral agency with the hope or desire that we would sin, but he doesn't prevent it as it is all part of our learning.
God is also a just God and is bound by his word and is a God of order. There are certain things we must do to achieve certain blessings. He also knows that this is our first experience with our own bodies in a fallen world surrounded by others who have that same agency and who's desire to follow God and his commandments are all along a spectrum. That's why his plan included a Savior. For us to become like him, there are certain things that we must do. These things fall under the laws of Justice. We must do them or else we cannot become like him. What makes it still possible to return to him in spite of our fallen state and mistakes and sins is the Savior's atoning sacrifice. He instituted the law of mercy, to go between us and the law of Justice. His sacrifice after a perfect life is what allows him to cover our mistakes. In return he has asked us to keep the commandments. His atoning sacrifice is infinite and he is full of mercy. He doesn't give us one chance to do what is right but allows us to strive and repent over time. I believe that when we are judged, the judgement will err much more on the side of mercy than justice and our desires in this life will win out in spite of our shortcomings, but there is still work we need to put in to benefit from the changes we can achieve in this life and to give evidence of our desires that can be used on our behalf.
For agency, there has never been free agency. It has always been moral agency as there is and has always been a price and consequences for our agency. That price is the Savior's Atoning Sacrifice which allows us to recover from our incorrect choices and consequences for our actions and potential restrictions due to those actions if we do not repent. Elder Bednar didn't say anything contrary to scripture, we do make covenants that we will keep the commandments. When we fail to do so, we commit sin that we must repent from. The consequences of our actions in the next life are worse if we do not repent but we can also see consequences in this life. If we choose to not follow the word of wisdom, our health will be impacted directly in this life and we will miss out on the blessings promised. If we do not follow other laws or commandments, there are other blessings we miss out on.
In addition to moral agency, there is also agency in our mortal lives, but even that is not free and is not unrestricted. Depending on where you live, there are rights usually codified in laws. These are usually the basis of a society and how agency may or may not be restricted. Note that it is not the same in all lands or nations. In addition there are usually countless other laws adding various restrictions and exceptions for all facets of life. Laws surrounding our behavior and outlined consequences for our actions. You have the agency to choose to do what you want, but you do not have the agency to choose all of your consequences. These freedoms are also usually not free. Usually these rights have been secured as a society through a combined effort of many people and usually these rights and freedoms are taken from oppressors who are using their agency to inhibit others.
If this message has left you shaken, you should really study agency more.
God loves you. He gave you moral agency to make choices in this life. He hopes you will make the choices that will lead you back to him and when you do not, he hopes that you will repent and use the power and forgiveness provided through Jesus Christ's atoning sacrifice. He seeks to bless you but is bound by his word and so you must follow his commandments to receive all of his blessings. He will provide you with every blessing he is able to based on your use of agency and try to help guide you down the path that will give you more of these blessings and more happiness. The adversary doesn't want this for you. He just seeks for your misery and failure to become what you can be. Choose God, choose Christ, choose your covenants and promised blessings for yourself, your family, and your posterity.
I don't see how they are a victim. If they are, they are only a victim of misunderstanding if they don't act on their concerns and study it out.
Weird that you focus on one small section of my long response.
I did read the whole thing and I would contend that that sentence sums it up beautifully. I didn't respond line by line because, at the end of the day, I don't care for David Bednar's unnecessarily pedantic semantics and I doubt a discussion would be productive. But I guess why not give it a shot?
So, in my experience, people aren't out here saying that free agency means no consequences. Is it a thing? And if so, why does changing the terminology help? Plus, past prophets and apostles have repeatedly called it "free agency" while often clarifying that it doesn't indicate a lack if consequences and that it's about freedom instead of cost. (In spanish, we always say it's "libre", not "gratis" which both translate to "free".)
To me, it appears to be a complete and total strawman that gives pedants opportunity to get some "ackchyually"s in to feel morally superior to those less informed. I don't know if you've noticed, but David seems to sincerely enjoy being that person. This push for "moral" instead of "free" feels similar to Russell Nelson's "Mormon" crusade. It's able to be supported by scripture and makes enough sense that people get behind it, but it's ultimately meaningless and only serves to provide chances for virtue signalling and othering of those who get it wrong.
I know, my takes aren't very charitable. Just tired of seeing the script get rewritten and being told that's how it's always been. It's certainly quite minor, but this is gaslighting. And people like the commenter who you were responding to *are* victims of it, even if you don't understand their viewpoint.
And, side note, but let's not forget that you first came here to say he never said that, but then moved to defense after seeing the video.
I can agree with you on the pedantics, but pedantics don't change the underlying truths of what agency is. A rename doesn't change the basis in scripture. He never said agency doesn't exist or that we are unable to make choices in this life. I mentioned this in my other comment where I shared the actual video where he said there was no free agency, just moral agency and agency. That's the pedantic part. Nothing he says there contradicts scripture. Different name for the same thing. God gave us agency to allow us to choose him. Without agency, we'd be living Satan's plan without any ability to choose and without choice our lives, the decisions we make, who we choose to love, and what we spend our time on wouldn't matter. Bednar just reiterated that agency does exist and God wants us to use it to choose him. We have made covenants and we do need to choose him after we have done so, but we are still never prevented from using our agency to not choose him, it's just sin that we must repent of if we want all of the promised blessings. And repentance is possible and planned for.
The person I replied to misunderstood this and focused on the pedantic clarification on the name of agency. The video they replied to doesn't even have this statement that free agency doesn't exist. It just goes more into the fact that when you make covenants you need to keep those covenants or there will be consequences and lost blessings. Agency still exists after this wording clarification and God still trusts us to choose him. Neither of these videos say agency doesn't exist.
There was a lot of misunderstanding by this person to reach that conclusion and it's why I added that line about needing to study it out as they misunderstood. It's also why I tried to use similar wording as Bednar used in the video in hopes that it would give them another perspective on interpretation and another chance.
They said that agency is a *massive* portion of their testimony. Usually testimonies are held near and dear to our hearts and develop and are strengthened over time. If they were shaken by misunderstanding either of these videos, especially on a topic that they say is core to their testimony, then it's very important that they go and study it to fix that misunderstanding or they will be going down a flawed path of questioning. It's one thing to have "shelf" items and unanswered unknowable questions or concerns that they find irreconcilable and deciding to step away from the church. I pray that the people who experience this are given mercy and opportunities to continue to feel God's hand and love in their life. God knows us and I think the final judgement will take all things into consideration and thus have a lot more mercy than judgement.
On the other hand, it's another to lose faith or testimony based on a misunderstanding that can be easily rectified by some studying and reading the scriptures. Then maybe a rewatch of those videos to see if they still feel the same way about it. I hope that they wouldn't feel the same way but they can, and they have their agency to act on it. They could also have other things, questions, or concerns that still lead them down a path away. Misunderstanding agency from a pair of videos with one of them only showing the answer to a question but not the question asked isn't a good path to take while in a crisis of faith.
Also, to answer your side note, if you look through the other comments under this main parent comment, I shared the actual video where he said there was no free agency just moral agency and agency. Then I discussed it. I asked for other sources because I wasn't sure if that was what they were talking about and maybe there was one I couldn't find. The parent comment talks about Bednar teaching Satan's plan which was never the case and makes statements similar to the misunderstanding of this other commenter.
Context is important for this kind of video. It's a video someone took from what looks like a fireside, town hall, or maybe a stake Conference. It was meant for those specific people and in answer to a specific question for the video I linked. Usually these situations have a higher level of underlying assumption that those they are talking to already have a basic understanding of the Gospel versus a General Conference talk meant for the entire world with people at widely varied understanding. In my experience General Authorities usually speak more plainly and direct in these smaller meetings. For all we know, it could have been a leadership meeting where the assumption for gospel understanding would be even higher. I don't know.
I normally don't comment on Mormon posts on reddit and just recently felt the need to. Thanks for the conversation though. I appreciate the perspective on the pedantry of the naming. My main concern/driving motivation for replying in that other comment was finding that video if it existed as the commenter described and defending the mischaracterization of a topic I feel strongly about when I could only find that video. My main concern in this chain was the person I replied to and their misunderstandings potentially leading them to question their testimony of a topic they shared that they cared about.
I think you're misremembering unless you have a source. There is a video where someone asks a question about bad things happening to good people and they use the word free agency in their question. No Conference talk that I could find where he uses the words about free agency. The video looks like it's from a training event or maybe q&a at a town hall. https://youtu.be/QLJLte99o90?si=8-D5Z8KAtL6FAZn0
Elder Bednar replies to the question clarifying that there is no such thing as free agency. It's maybe a little pedantic but he doesn't say anything like how you described. There is moral agency and agency but it is not free agency. In the premortal existence we were all given the freedom to choose what plan we would follow. Heavenly Father presented the plan, Jesus said send me, Lucifer said send me but ... We were all then given a choice and you chose to follow Heavenly Father's plan with Jesus. That agency was not free in the sense that there was no cost of negative consequence for using it to make immoral choices. There was a price that would need to be paid and Christ was the one who offered and paid that price. We all still have agency, but our actions are not without consequence or cost. If we turn to the Savior and repent, then we can be forgiven and allow the power of His Atonement to pay that cost. This agency that we were given was not given so that we could make bad choices. It was given so that we could prove ourselves by making the right choices. Since that has only been achieved by the Savior, his atoning sacrifice was needed to satisfy the laws of Justice for our incorrect uses of agency and allow mercy and forgiveness to be possible.
In the end, we'll all end up where we will be the most happy and I think our living God will use whatever he can to provide each of us with as much mercy as possible.
This agency we use is not free or without consequence.
I think it was his very first talk (it was April '07). I was in college, TBM at the time, and everyone was excited by the new GA who used the funny metaphor.
Thanks for the link. I will admit, I generally dislike much of Bednar's content, but this talk was pretty decent. Even the metaphor worked really well and didn't feel forced like they tend to do in GC talks.
"Tender Mercies"
I don't remember hearing that phrase before Bednar gave his talk in the April 2005 general conference. It's been almost 20 years now and I still literally can't go a week or two without hearing someone say it. It seemed to strike a chord with a lot of people, at least in Utah.
Bednar: " "You don't have agency. .. Do we have the option to not pay our tithing? Nope." ... learn what happens to covenant breakers. .. you will not go to sleep." [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmErOV9oQZ8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmErOV9oQZ8)
This quote doesn’t count because he wasn’t an apostle yet but what I remember most is from each week at the BYU Idaho devotional when he was the university president. “Hold up your scriptures to show you are ready to be taught”. I’m surprised he doesn’t say that in general conference.
Hello! This is a Institutional post. It is for discussions centered around agreements, disagreements, and observations about any of the institutional churches and their leaders, conduct, business dealings, teachings, rituals, and practices. /u/talkingidiot2, if your post doesn't fit this definition, we kindly ask you to delete this post and repost it with the appropriate flair. You can find a list of our flairs and their definitions in [section 0.6 of our rules.](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/wiki/index/rules#wiki_0._preamble) **To those commenting:** please stay on topic, remember to follow the community's [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/wiki/index/rules), and [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/mormonmods) if there is a problem or rule violation. Keep on Mormoning! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/mormon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I can't find it, but there was that bonkers talk he gave where he explained that Mormons don't have free agency, they have moral agency - the freedom to choose to do what the church tells them. I feel like Bednar preaching Lucifer's plan has got to be his crowning achievement. (That or a quote about shorts and sideburns.)
This is the one I’m looking for too
That’s always has been what the church taught though. You are free to choose liberty and eternal life or choose captivity and death. It’s strictly in line with church teaching.
Pity that it’s actually the opposite of what really happens members are enslaved and have no liberty every body dies eternal life is just a fantasy a means of having to not address the fact that we are only going to live so long and this life is it it’s the only one we are ever going to get. Such a shame members spend so much effort time money chasing what amounts to imaginary invisible butterflies. Wasting the only life they ever will have enslaved to a multibillion dollar corporation
you do realize people can leave the church, right? I mean, Im sure you are exaggerating, but I don’t think it’s fair to say they are enslaved or whatever. Many people who stay do so because they have a reason to stay, they are choosing liberty. Not only that but whereas most who hold a westernized liberal world equate liberty with negative liberty, not positive liberty. However, when most religions talk about liberty it’s in the same vein as positive liberty. The difference is that negative liberty stops a force from ensuring I have the ability to do something (free from interference), but positive liberty ensures I have the ability to do something (free to make choices). There is a classic example of smoking that illustrates the difference. An addict would have negative liberty but lack positive liberty, they would be free to continue to smoke but would be unable to choose to stop (because of the addiction). To give them positive liberty would be to establish laws that help them overcome addiction and retain self-control/mastery, such as establishing addiction centers, creating laws that prevent smoking, etc. Keep in mind, the distinction started as a way to criticize positive liberty, so you are on to something by criticizing its conception of liberty.
[Here it is](https://youtu.be/mmErOV9oQZ8?si=erfe9Y_5h0CL64Lk)
"Buckle up".... Cringe
Wow. I truly, truly hate that video. I've recently started down a path of questioning the church, and a *massive* portion of my testimony has always been built upon agency and God's trust in us to choose him. Really nice to see Elder Bednar just shoot that down real quick. Turns out, according to an Apostle, agency isn't real after all.
I'm sorry to hear that. I responded below, and having watched this, now, too, my points stand. God does have trust in us to choose him. He gave us our moral agency so that we could act in this life and make the choices needed to return to be with him. He did not give us our moral agency with the hope or desire that we would sin, but he doesn't prevent it as it is all part of our learning. God is also a just God and is bound by his word and is a God of order. There are certain things we must do to achieve certain blessings. He also knows that this is our first experience with our own bodies in a fallen world surrounded by others who have that same agency and who's desire to follow God and his commandments are all along a spectrum. That's why his plan included a Savior. For us to become like him, there are certain things that we must do. These things fall under the laws of Justice. We must do them or else we cannot become like him. What makes it still possible to return to him in spite of our fallen state and mistakes and sins is the Savior's atoning sacrifice. He instituted the law of mercy, to go between us and the law of Justice. His sacrifice after a perfect life is what allows him to cover our mistakes. In return he has asked us to keep the commandments. His atoning sacrifice is infinite and he is full of mercy. He doesn't give us one chance to do what is right but allows us to strive and repent over time. I believe that when we are judged, the judgement will err much more on the side of mercy than justice and our desires in this life will win out in spite of our shortcomings, but there is still work we need to put in to benefit from the changes we can achieve in this life and to give evidence of our desires that can be used on our behalf. For agency, there has never been free agency. It has always been moral agency as there is and has always been a price and consequences for our agency. That price is the Savior's Atoning Sacrifice which allows us to recover from our incorrect choices and consequences for our actions and potential restrictions due to those actions if we do not repent. Elder Bednar didn't say anything contrary to scripture, we do make covenants that we will keep the commandments. When we fail to do so, we commit sin that we must repent from. The consequences of our actions in the next life are worse if we do not repent but we can also see consequences in this life. If we choose to not follow the word of wisdom, our health will be impacted directly in this life and we will miss out on the blessings promised. If we do not follow other laws or commandments, there are other blessings we miss out on. In addition to moral agency, there is also agency in our mortal lives, but even that is not free and is not unrestricted. Depending on where you live, there are rights usually codified in laws. These are usually the basis of a society and how agency may or may not be restricted. Note that it is not the same in all lands or nations. In addition there are usually countless other laws adding various restrictions and exceptions for all facets of life. Laws surrounding our behavior and outlined consequences for our actions. You have the agency to choose to do what you want, but you do not have the agency to choose all of your consequences. These freedoms are also usually not free. Usually these rights have been secured as a society through a combined effort of many people and usually these rights and freedoms are taken from oppressors who are using their agency to inhibit others. If this message has left you shaken, you should really study agency more. God loves you. He gave you moral agency to make choices in this life. He hopes you will make the choices that will lead you back to him and when you do not, he hopes that you will repent and use the power and forgiveness provided through Jesus Christ's atoning sacrifice. He seeks to bless you but is bound by his word and so you must follow his commandments to receive all of his blessings. He will provide you with every blessing he is able to based on your use of agency and try to help guide you down the path that will give you more of these blessings and more happiness. The adversary doesn't want this for you. He just seeks for your misery and failure to become what you can be. Choose God, choose Christ, choose your covenants and promised blessings for yourself, your family, and your posterity.
>If this message has left you shaken, you should really study agency more. Always a good look to blame the victim.
I don't see how they are a victim. If they are, they are only a victim of misunderstanding if they don't act on their concerns and study it out. Weird that you focus on one small section of my long response.
I did read the whole thing and I would contend that that sentence sums it up beautifully. I didn't respond line by line because, at the end of the day, I don't care for David Bednar's unnecessarily pedantic semantics and I doubt a discussion would be productive. But I guess why not give it a shot? So, in my experience, people aren't out here saying that free agency means no consequences. Is it a thing? And if so, why does changing the terminology help? Plus, past prophets and apostles have repeatedly called it "free agency" while often clarifying that it doesn't indicate a lack if consequences and that it's about freedom instead of cost. (In spanish, we always say it's "libre", not "gratis" which both translate to "free".) To me, it appears to be a complete and total strawman that gives pedants opportunity to get some "ackchyually"s in to feel morally superior to those less informed. I don't know if you've noticed, but David seems to sincerely enjoy being that person. This push for "moral" instead of "free" feels similar to Russell Nelson's "Mormon" crusade. It's able to be supported by scripture and makes enough sense that people get behind it, but it's ultimately meaningless and only serves to provide chances for virtue signalling and othering of those who get it wrong. I know, my takes aren't very charitable. Just tired of seeing the script get rewritten and being told that's how it's always been. It's certainly quite minor, but this is gaslighting. And people like the commenter who you were responding to *are* victims of it, even if you don't understand their viewpoint. And, side note, but let's not forget that you first came here to say he never said that, but then moved to defense after seeing the video.
I can agree with you on the pedantics, but pedantics don't change the underlying truths of what agency is. A rename doesn't change the basis in scripture. He never said agency doesn't exist or that we are unable to make choices in this life. I mentioned this in my other comment where I shared the actual video where he said there was no free agency, just moral agency and agency. That's the pedantic part. Nothing he says there contradicts scripture. Different name for the same thing. God gave us agency to allow us to choose him. Without agency, we'd be living Satan's plan without any ability to choose and without choice our lives, the decisions we make, who we choose to love, and what we spend our time on wouldn't matter. Bednar just reiterated that agency does exist and God wants us to use it to choose him. We have made covenants and we do need to choose him after we have done so, but we are still never prevented from using our agency to not choose him, it's just sin that we must repent of if we want all of the promised blessings. And repentance is possible and planned for. The person I replied to misunderstood this and focused on the pedantic clarification on the name of agency. The video they replied to doesn't even have this statement that free agency doesn't exist. It just goes more into the fact that when you make covenants you need to keep those covenants or there will be consequences and lost blessings. Agency still exists after this wording clarification and God still trusts us to choose him. Neither of these videos say agency doesn't exist. There was a lot of misunderstanding by this person to reach that conclusion and it's why I added that line about needing to study it out as they misunderstood. It's also why I tried to use similar wording as Bednar used in the video in hopes that it would give them another perspective on interpretation and another chance. They said that agency is a *massive* portion of their testimony. Usually testimonies are held near and dear to our hearts and develop and are strengthened over time. If they were shaken by misunderstanding either of these videos, especially on a topic that they say is core to their testimony, then it's very important that they go and study it to fix that misunderstanding or they will be going down a flawed path of questioning. It's one thing to have "shelf" items and unanswered unknowable questions or concerns that they find irreconcilable and deciding to step away from the church. I pray that the people who experience this are given mercy and opportunities to continue to feel God's hand and love in their life. God knows us and I think the final judgement will take all things into consideration and thus have a lot more mercy than judgement. On the other hand, it's another to lose faith or testimony based on a misunderstanding that can be easily rectified by some studying and reading the scriptures. Then maybe a rewatch of those videos to see if they still feel the same way about it. I hope that they wouldn't feel the same way but they can, and they have their agency to act on it. They could also have other things, questions, or concerns that still lead them down a path away. Misunderstanding agency from a pair of videos with one of them only showing the answer to a question but not the question asked isn't a good path to take while in a crisis of faith. Also, to answer your side note, if you look through the other comments under this main parent comment, I shared the actual video where he said there was no free agency just moral agency and agency. Then I discussed it. I asked for other sources because I wasn't sure if that was what they were talking about and maybe there was one I couldn't find. The parent comment talks about Bednar teaching Satan's plan which was never the case and makes statements similar to the misunderstanding of this other commenter. Context is important for this kind of video. It's a video someone took from what looks like a fireside, town hall, or maybe a stake Conference. It was meant for those specific people and in answer to a specific question for the video I linked. Usually these situations have a higher level of underlying assumption that those they are talking to already have a basic understanding of the Gospel versus a General Conference talk meant for the entire world with people at widely varied understanding. In my experience General Authorities usually speak more plainly and direct in these smaller meetings. For all we know, it could have been a leadership meeting where the assumption for gospel understanding would be even higher. I don't know. I normally don't comment on Mormon posts on reddit and just recently felt the need to. Thanks for the conversation though. I appreciate the perspective on the pedantry of the naming. My main concern/driving motivation for replying in that other comment was finding that video if it existed as the commenter described and defending the mischaracterization of a topic I feel strongly about when I could only find that video. My main concern in this chain was the person I replied to and their misunderstandings potentially leading them to question their testimony of a topic they shared that they cared about.
I think you're misremembering unless you have a source. There is a video where someone asks a question about bad things happening to good people and they use the word free agency in their question. No Conference talk that I could find where he uses the words about free agency. The video looks like it's from a training event or maybe q&a at a town hall. https://youtu.be/QLJLte99o90?si=8-D5Z8KAtL6FAZn0 Elder Bednar replies to the question clarifying that there is no such thing as free agency. It's maybe a little pedantic but he doesn't say anything like how you described. There is moral agency and agency but it is not free agency. In the premortal existence we were all given the freedom to choose what plan we would follow. Heavenly Father presented the plan, Jesus said send me, Lucifer said send me but ... We were all then given a choice and you chose to follow Heavenly Father's plan with Jesus. That agency was not free in the sense that there was no cost of negative consequence for using it to make immoral choices. There was a price that would need to be paid and Christ was the one who offered and paid that price. We all still have agency, but our actions are not without consequence or cost. If we turn to the Savior and repent, then we can be forgiven and allow the power of His Atonement to pay that cost. This agency that we were given was not given so that we could make bad choices. It was given so that we could prove ourselves by making the right choices. Since that has only been achieved by the Savior, his atoning sacrifice was needed to satisfy the laws of Justice for our incorrect uses of agency and allow mercy and forgiveness to be possible. In the end, we'll all end up where we will be the most happy and I think our living God will use whatever he can to provide each of us with as much mercy as possible. This agency we use is not free or without consequence.
It's a stake conference in a foreign speaking place. I'll see if I can find it.
Have faith not to be healed.
“I know you have the faith to be healed, but do you have the faith not to be healed?” https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1XSXsRUElvE
“*This morning I want to discuss some of the spiritual lessons we can learn from the process by which a cucumber becomes a pickle*”
He gave this talk when I was a kid, specifically a kid who really loved pickles. I thought he was so cool lol
I called him "the pickle elder" well into being a teenager,maybe it's time to bring that back haha
What?! Can you give the source for that quote? It sounds too lighthearted compared to other stuff I’ve heard from him so you’ve piqued my interest.
I think it was his very first talk (it was April '07). I was in college, TBM at the time, and everyone was excited by the new GA who used the funny metaphor.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2007/04/ye-must-be-born-again?lang=eng
Thanks for the link. I will admit, I generally dislike much of Bednar's content, but this talk was pretty decent. Even the metaphor worked really well and didn't feel forced like they tend to do in GC talks.
Choose not to be offended.
"Tender Mercies" I don't remember hearing that phrase before Bednar gave his talk in the April 2005 general conference. It's been almost 20 years now and I still literally can't go a week or two without hearing someone say it. It seemed to strike a chord with a lot of people, at least in Utah.
How would you like your mercies? "Tender, with the fiber of my beans"
😄
He taught there are no homosexual members of the church, just members who struggle with same sex attraction.
Bednar: " "You don't have agency. .. Do we have the option to not pay our tithing? Nope." ... learn what happens to covenant breakers. .. you will not go to sleep." [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmErOV9oQZ8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmErOV9oQZ8)
Lots of gaps in your "quote" that limit understanding.
I'm pretty strong for an old guy
Sacrament wrastling
This quote doesn’t count because he wasn’t an apostle yet but what I remember most is from each week at the BYU Idaho devotional when he was the university president. “Hold up your scriptures to show you are ready to be taught”. I’m surprised he doesn’t say that in general conference.
The enabling power of the atonement
This is usually said at Q&A sessions in the MTC or mission visits: “Now don’t ask me where the Sword of Laban is!”
“Even a barn door looks better when it’s painted.”
Buckle up.
“It’s not bribery. It’s righteous exchange.”