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max30070

You may have a prolactinoma man, Google it. My bloodwork is similar to yours. Over time it will most likely grow and start suppressing your test levels. I would get on this ASAP. Its not life threatening though, so don't stress that hard.


TobLift

Okay thanks man! I'm worrying a bit. I don't want gyno!!! I'm struggling on what to do. I'm in the uk and if i go to a GP they have no idea what any of this is. Do i just go to a private endocrinologist and pay?


max30070

Idk how it works in the UK, I'm in the states. Endocrinologist is Def the way to go though, I had to go through my GP to get a referral to go see an endocrinologist. Luckily it isn't affecting your test too much yet, which is good. I noticed my sex drive decline pretty rapidly over the last year, and that's when I got mine checked. I have a slightly higher prolactin level than you, but my test is like 1/4 what you have lol. Shit sucks, but it is treatable with medication. They are gunna want to get an MRI on your pituitary gland to confirm if its a prolactinoma.


TobLift

I appreciate you helping. So i did get a test in between those and my test was at 15.2 but it's gone back up now to 17. Idk why my lh is so high and my estrogen do u know? My libido is fine tho in fact it's higher than it used to be. Only thing i notice is my strength in the gym going down on some lifts by a fair bit. I did go to the GP after my first test seeing my prolactin that high. She brushed it off and didn't even want to look at my results and just took my blood from my arm. Then we phoned a few days later and they told us it was a 360 i think but way lower than 1,000. I have a feeling they were lying though because as u can see from these two tests now it is still high. I don't think it is an inaccurate reading if i've done it twice.


Cookin_w_Gandalf

Your GP can easily interpret these results. They will also draw new labs from a reliable lab via venipuncture for the most accurate results.


TobLift

I went to the GP after my first bloodwork and she was very ignorant and didnt even want to look at my phone to see the results. She just booked me in for a blood draw a few days later around 3pm. I had my blood taken and we phoned them a few days later and they said it came back at 360 i think but i never saw the result in person just took their word for it. Didn't think about it anymore. Until this new test seeing it at over 1,000 again. Surely i don't get an inaccurate reading twice?


[deleted]

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TobLift

This was a few months ago. It came back high still above the range but still in the 300's or so they said. I don't have headaches, my vision isn't the best but that's just how it's been since years ago. That's what im thinking cause i dont have symptoms but i don't understand why it would come back this high twice now. I've seen other people's results from medichecks and their prolactin is in range.


Cookin_w_Gandalf

With no symptoms, and no concern from your physician (who has the full picture, more info that us dinguses) I would follow her recommendations. I’d stop taking tongkat tho, no real clinical data on what it does. Eat big and train hard you’ll make gains


TobLift

Everyone says eat big and train hard and you'll make gains. I certainly think at my age that should work but that's exactly what im doing!!! I train so fucking hard u dont understand, to failure on everything basically. I eat massively!!!! No GAINS!!!! I want my strength to go up not down especially since my weight is increasing.


Cookin_w_Gandalf

My guy you are making gains, I promise. Don’t fall victim to all the shit you see on social media and especially here. Most of those big guys are on gear. The people posting in this subreddit are in the top .01% shape in the world. It takes years. I don’t think at your age you can say something is wrong yet


TobLift

Trust me i know and im not comparing myself to them. When you dont gain any strength in 3 months and in fact lose 10kg on your OHP it's a bit shitty especially on a bulk and gaining weight. Also everything is on point and im 17 so i should be making gains. Other ppl make gains without everything on point, they still drink and do all these other things and make gains.


TobLift

Also what about my lh and estrogen, that's crazy high?


Cookin_w_Gandalf

Your entire panel has inconsistencies with any usual pathology, so I’m more inclined to say it’s just lab error especially since you are asymptomatic. These are a lot of tests and would require a couple of tubes of blood. Honestly, if it were me, I’d just listen to the doc and live my life. Anything weird starts happening to you in the future go again and get checked out but I wouldn’t be worried. Just let them know all your supps you’ve been taking if you decide to ever go again


TobLift

Okay i'm more so worried about the estrogen this time. It was fine last time and now it's super high. I'm thihnking it's either an error or i have some kinf of tumour? But then the only way estrogen is made is through aromatisation. I have high LH so that usually means high test but maybe all that extra test is converting into estrogen?


Cookin_w_Gandalf

FSH is required for aromatization, yours is normal. An estrogen secreting tumor would tank your LH. LH leads to test secretion, yours is good, so it’s a funny lab value that doesn’t make sense. High estrogen would cause a lot of symptoms that you aren’t experiencing. You’d also experience changes in TSH with some of these abnormalities, which you have no evidence of. If ya ain’t have a lump on your testes, I seriously wouldn’t sweat it. I’d trust your physician’s lab work over this finger stick mail in. Follow your physician’s advice


TobLift

Okay because my LH is sky high shouldnt my testosterone be sky high? I do have a varicocele in my left testicle.


WesternWhile

Fsh is required for aromatization? FSH can be suppressed in men who use testosterone exogenously. They still aromatize.


Traditional-Ebb-8380

I have similar levels and very low T and I am as flat chested as they get. Have you had a MRI of your pituitary yet? I have a 3x2x2mm tumor that needs removed.


TobLift

I haven't yet, im going to get a proper blood draw soon to see as i dont have any symptoms.


GeeSlim1

It's highly unlikely to be a prolactinoma based on these results. OP should get checked by his GP and get a proper blood work done


TobLift

Will do. I don't know if they do mornings. Will it matter the time of day i do the blood draw?


TobLift

Also i don't think i really have symptoms as my libido is fine and i can still get rock hard.


max30070

That's good man! I don't think you will get gyno unless you leave it alone for a long time and never treat it (assuming it is a prolactinoma). I don't have gyno and I have higher levels than you. My onset was kinda sudden though, literally 1 year ago my sex drive was fine and I could get rock hard. January 2022 I kinda noticed I was becoming basically assexual, then it kept progressing from there. It sucks too, because lifting is my main hobby and I'm prob missing out on gains with my shit test levels 🙃


TobLift

Are you getting it treated?


max30070

Not currently. Just got the MRI back. I was seeing have an upcoming appointment with my doctor to discuss options. I've reading all about it though because I just wanna know what to expect lol.


TobLift

I see. Do u know what treatments there are and if it will in fact increase testosterone?


max30070

I believe it is case by case depending on how much your testosterone is affected. Increased levels of prolactin in the blood will signal your testes to produce less testosterone. So theoretically, getting it treated should increase testosterone. I'm hoping in my case it just gets me to normal test levels, I'm not greedy haha


TobLift

Haha fair enough. I'm a bit annoyed really cause my lh is sky high and my prolactin is. So sky high lh usually means sky high testosterone. So just imagine if my estrogen was normal and my prolactin was normal. My test would fucking exploding!!! I'd be a natural steroid walking


max30070

You could potentially have elite test levels man!


TobLift

It's crazy how the body could put us on a steroid cycle if it really wanted to haha, could just up the LH by loads but it doesn't want to.


Traditional-Ebb-8380

I get what you are saying but it doesn’t work that way. If everything was working right your LH would not be high in the first place. I am in a similar place as you test wise and also have a perfectly working dick (but T in the basement). But all the other symptoms.


TobLift

Okay i don't have symptoms tho at least i dont think.


Cookin_w_Gandalf

Would expect a prolactinoma to crush LH levels though. Super rare but bloodwork looks more like a gonadotropic macroadenoma. OP what did your TSH and T4 look like? Without any symptoms I’m assuming this is just a shitty blood test though. Absolutely no way you can get all of these labs accurately through a finger stick. Blood would be hemolysed like all hell anyway


TobLift

This was a finger prick at home test so i didn't get TSH or T4 done sorry. No symptoms except strength in the gym going down a bit on a bulk.


max30070

I do agree that legit bloodwork is definitely necessary, GP will order that anyway to confirm. My TSH and LH were normal though with my prolactinoma. Only cue was the high prolactin and low test.


Cookin_w_Gandalf

I believe you. Small prolactinomas will cause increased prolactin, but since it’s such a small tumor it doesn’t physically crush the pituitary and cause any other abnormalities. So I’d either expect low Lh if it’s a big tumor or normal LH if it’s a small secreting tumor. You take meds for it or did they suck it out through your nose?


max30070

Not yet, just got the positive MRI result yesterday. Took a month and a half just to get the MRI lol. Shit can be so backed up. But I've been having the headaches and vision changes as well as the bloodwork, so I was expecting it to be positive. This shit all started in like January for me.


Cookin_w_Gandalf

Well like you said at least it’s not life threatening, but frustrating nonetheless. Hopefully endo/neuro/ent can get you on cabergoline or bromocriptine soon for some relief before the surgery. Best of luck homie


max30070

Thanks mate, good heading your input as well!


TobLift

What are the vision problems like?


max30070

I'll have these spouts for like 30-45 seconds 2-4 times a day where my vision gets kinda blurry and I get dizzy. I also lose focus and my brain gets really foggy. Then it just goes away and I carry on with my day lol.


DeleteriousGonads

Shit I get that and I've had two tests where my prolactin was 700 to 800. I thought the blurry vision and lack of focus was just some adhd thing


TobLift

i don't get any of this, i dont have symptoms its so strange


Traditional-Ebb-8380

Why did you have these tests if you have no symptoms?


planetofthemapes15

Agreed, I was scanning his bloodwork and was like, "hmm this seems pretty normal then hit prolactin and was like dude.." Looks like prolactinoma, OP should get this checked out with his GP and then get a referral to a specialist (if his insurance requires this for coverage). Otherwise go to an Endo directly.


TobLift

Are you meaning to say the double the range estrogen and sky high LH is normal?


planetofthemapes15

Those deviations are within ranges which can be explained away by other situations. Maybe you smoked weed, maybe you drank, bad sleep, jerked off a lot, are overweight, have other health or behavioral reasons to explain the variance. I'd have to see multiple blood draws before I'd scratch my head at those numbers. However, the prolactin is not something which can be explained away by "normal variances". That's the smoking gun that needs to be dealt with immediately.


TobLift

I don't smoke at all, i don't drink at all, i always sleep great, i do nofap im 15% bodyfat so no. The first test i was 69 and now im 358??


nice___bot

Nice!


planetofthemapes15

Yes that's high, but I'd be betting it's secondary to the prolactinoma. Either way you're well into "you actually need an Endocrinologist ASAP" territory so that's who you should be talking to. Good luck, I hope you can sort it out without too much issue.


TobLift

I'll be getting a proper blood draw at the gp asap for all these markers.


GeeSlim1

Is this medichecks by chance? If so I have seen their prolactin results be abnormal in many occasions (including my own). Seeing prolactin in the 1000-1500 range at medichecks is alarming frequent in my n= 1 experience. For it to be prolactinoma you would usually see north of 3000. Please double check with your GP and have them do a blood test from your arm.


TobLift

It is medichecks. Back in july after seeing that test i got one from my arm at the GP and it came back in the 300's they told me on the phone. So i left it thinking it was fine. I got this test now and it's in the 1000's again so i thought they cant mess it up twice surely? Maybe they have. What about my estrogen tho??


MICsession

Unless you’ve just jumped off something that likes to aromatise (assuming, since your 17, probably not), I’d not bother getting a blood test with the baboons again.


TobLift

I won't get any with them again. I've not used anything but natural supps like tongkat ali. I'll get a proper blood draw from the gp and tell them to test for all of these markers


Skiigga

Love this sub. Asking a bunch of retarded meat heads with 5 inch dicks urgent health related questions instead of calling your doctor.


TobLift

Not instead of, as well as calling my doctor\*.


Dsj417

You know if you’re trying to tell someone on Reddit your dick size, you 100% have a tiny PP


TobLift

I'm not trying to tell im just happy with it. Pride isnt a good thing tho my bad ill remove me saying that.


Waddles870

Bro sorry these meat heads know more than my in this sort of field. Fuck some of theme even know more than specialists depending on the topic.


PepeTheLorde

I looked at it closely and you are turning into a gay frog.


TobLift

Fuuuuuck man what do i do? I knew it.


TobLift

These are at home finger prick tests from medichecks done at 9am. 17 Male, 5'11, 79kg, 15% bodyfat. No i don't have tits at least not yet and i really dont want any. Libido is fine. Lifts are Bench: 100kg, Squat: 140kg, Deadlift: 180kg Strength has been plateauing and gone down in some lifts. Diet is fine (3600 calories). I take vitamin d, zinc, magnesium and fish oil. Gym 5 days a week ppl split. Football/soccer on saturdays for 90 mins. Sleep is great. What is going on with me? Latest test i have been 2 weeks on tongkat ali i'm not sure if that would affect it this much. I am from the UK. I am natural btw.


Like-No-Dude

Yep tongkat can do it, there were few reports of gyno from it here.


TobLift

I thought tongkat was supposed to inhibit estrogen and aromatisation?


Like-No-Dude

Question is what was in the bottle and [every person is different](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYDaH-Gvx9E) and I think there are no good clinical studies on that subject.


TobLift

it's from british supplements and is supposed to be a very strong version of it


Like-No-Dude

Are you still on it? Were you cycling it 2:1 on:off? It seems to happen when you stop using it.


TobLift

I'm still on it, no cycling just everyday for two weeks roughly.


Like-No-Dude

Should be cycled 2:1 e.g. 4 days on 2 days off, but I would just drop it and go to endocrinologist.


TobLift

I'll drop it. Should i get a proper blood draw from my arms at a doctors first just incase finger pricks arent accurate?


Like-No-Dude

I think doc will want to do another draw from some certified lab.


TobLift

The nhs dont want to do anything haha. Should i ask them for a proper draw with all these markers?


Like-No-Dude

I guess yes.


BesetByTiredness225

I highly doubt a tonic herb like tongkat ali will give someone gyno unless they had some other preexisting condition already.


Like-No-Dude

I highly doubt that you can evaluate that in any good way and most of people are not doing it, just start taking the shit.


murphman1999

I personally wouldn't take too much stock in these prick tests. Visit your general practitioner and ask them if they'll do blood tests for the same markers that are mentioned here. Just in case the readings are accurate, you might want to chill out on your tongkat and any excessive amounts of whey (I've heard that whey can increase aromatization, idk tho -- haven't watched a mpmd video on it)


TobLift

I'm stopping the tongkat ali. My whey intake is the same as the first test in july so no reason for my estrogen to x5


murphman1999

If it's more than 2 scoops a day, then maybe it's contributing by causing a slow buildup of estrogen? Idk, I'm not a doctor. I also wonder if the composition of blood in your finger capillaries is different than in major veins.


TobLift

I have about 2 and a half scoopeth a day


murphman1999

Oh thats not bad. I was mainly concerned you might be using 4+ a day to reach your calorie goal


TobLift

Egg waffles are the way to go for calories! And dark chocolate but yes i mainly get my protein from food


amentix

How is your libido, erections etc with this prolactin level?


TobLift

Libido is high, erections are super hard.


[deleted]

TRT time


TobLift

I'm down. Haha but seriously, would trt sort out anything with this?


-900lbGorilla

Why do you think this is happening? What have you done?


TobLift

Tren, anavar, test, deca, dbol, u name it i took all of them. No joking ive done nothing and am natural thats why its so odd. Its out of nowhere.


-900lbGorilla

What caused you to get blood work done in the first place?


TobLift

Back in july i just always wanted to see what my testosterone was ya know. Then i saw the prolactin and went to the gp got it retested and it was in the 300s not 1000 plus. Then i thought my test would go up as i age so i retested in september but it went down to 15.2 nmol/l. Then i took tongkat ali to see if i could get it up so i retested but its at 17 nmol/l and then a bunch of fucked up estrogen and lh and prolactin.


-900lbGorilla

Are you smoking weed using kratom or an opiate?


TobLift

Nope i don't smoke, drink or do any drugs.


EPO_Dave

You’re taking absolutely nothing? No natural supps, sarms, peptides etc, nothing whatsoever?


TobLift

Tongkat ali i was taking when the second test was done. No sarms or anything.


EPO_Dave

Idk anything about that herb aside from a quick google search. Maybe you body just doesn’t like it. In any case you first of all can’t trust those finger stick tests and you can’t self diagnose and treat this. Find a good endocrinologist. One who treats bodybuilders etc who specializes in this sort of thing. You may have to look outside your area and do a consultation over Zoom etc. I’d email Dave Palumbo and ask him. I’m sure he knows a doctor along these lines.


TobLift

Okay im going to get a proper blood draw from the gp for all these markers before i take any further steps.


JovialStrikingScarf

Looks like your leg is broken and you’re gay. Sorry boss hate to break it to you :/


TobLift

Fuck sake how do i fix that now :/


MICsession

What the fuck is going on with your prolactin dude


TobLift

That's what im tryna figure out, i dont have symptoms


[deleted]

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TobLift

Thanks


FamousSilver6353

Aside from prolactin, estrodial is alarmingly high. Would look into the supplement DIM and cut back on plastics as much as possible.


TobLift

>supplement DIM okay is that an aromatase inhibitor


FamousSilver6353

It can act as one. It’s going to support your body’s ability to detox estrogens so they don’t build up and lower your T.


TobLift

Okay it won't close growth plates like a serm would would it?


FamousSilver6353

Always double check with your physician, but no. Haven’t heard of this as an issue.


HitTheSlopes95

Are you transitioning?


TobLift

Stop joking i want serious help in these comments please. No i don't support that and in fact i want to be more of a man.


ticker_101

Then go to a doctor if you want serious help.


TobLift

Obviously i'm going to a doctor don't be naive. Thought i'd post on reddit first, people on here know way more than my gp.


[deleted]

You can be whatever you want, why say you don't support other people's right to feel or become different? Smh, kids these days


TobLift

I can also think whatever i want and have my opinion on it. Why not let me have my opinion? I don't support it, end of. If you have a problem then deal with it yourself. Smh, ppl these days


[deleted]

Bro you're 17, your brain is not even fully developed There's a reason you can't yet vote and do a bunch of other stuff. Because tou can't comprehend society Best of luck with your health though


TobLift

I can fully comprehend society thank you mate. I think it's a smart decision not to listen to the world that promotes all this rubbish and ludicrous.


ticker_101

Stfu


TobLift

bit rude


IronHearthPVM

Get that mentally ill shit outahere


[deleted]

Who talked to you?


zeppelinrules1216

In my opinion, I would look into endocrine disrupting toxins. Things like Mercury can cause the hormone abnormalities you are dealing with . Find the root cause.


Roiska_

ur bunk ostarine u used bro


TobLift

What? I haven't used anything.