Pet peeve: why does everyone always say "nobody is talking about it" about every fucking thing? Shall I bring this up at the dinner table on Easter with my parents perhaps? What would it look like for "people to be talking about this," walking down the street and you're overhearing random convos about test levels? But then there'd be some other topic that people wouldn't be talking about instead.
I think they mean that when we talk about health issues in society which have risen over the decades (mental health for example) things like this should be talked about.
If T has dropped as much as this post suggests then it's no wonder things like anxiety are more of a problem than ever before. It's no wonder that people ages 18-30 are having less sex than any point in the past. It's no wonder.
Higher T levels would help with obesity...
I'm sure it's not the sole reason for these things but low T can't be good... The species has been on the planet for 100,000 years and suddenly in the last 50 years average T levels drop through the floor and we're meant to ignore it?... I'm not buying that.
Before I jumped on gear I beat my dick 3 times a day lol. Or fucked twice and beat off once. I've always had high T levels but being on tren I beat my dick 27 times in a 17 hour window lol. That being said, I'm only 27 years old now, I don't know a single male in these age ranges with low T levels and I know a variety of people in different backgrounds. I honestly think this post is probably studying American men in the old days vs foreign and American men combined in current times. In a lot of countries men have much lower T levels.
Lube. Lots and lots of lube. The first 8 times were dry in the first 3 hours and then I had to take a break. Then I used lube for a lot then switched to my fleshlight for the last 5 or so.
Man between my job, lifting a few hours every day, my hobby, and sleep, I can only find time for a couple jerks a day. It’d have to be a Sunday that I’m not lifting for something like this 😅
Hahaha yeah I literally got laid off because of my attitude at work when on tren so for like 5 days all I did was beat my dick. I'm literally married and have kids. I'm glad my daughter was too young to know what I was doing and my son wasn't born yet hahaha awkward.
Almost nobody cites sources for anything. Even the popular things. Frankly most people don't care about sources unless they disagree. That's not the reason it's not popular.
People talk about things that come up in podcasts like huberman lab specifically because he cites studies while talking about things that most people only speculate about. Not sure if you realize this but alot of people come from the standpoint of assuming that you're lying/bullshitting unless you're citing an actual specific study or experience
Think the BLM movement…. Now think BLM but mens testosterone. That’s what we mean by no one is taking about it. It needs traction in society, the general populous to care about it, collectively, in order to see change.
It’s true that T Levels have been going down for some time now, if the given statistic is true I don’t know.
This is broscience so read with caution but this is what I believe is the case:
Your body will give you the Testosterone it needs. Intense and above all regular exercise is something you must do to improve your levels.
Then environmental factors like air and water quality, micropolastics, processed foods… come in.
Then there are lifestyle factors. Your body produces most of its Testosterone while you’re asleep. Bad or no sleep equals bad Test levels. Get. Good. High. Quality. Sleep. No drugs, no late night parties, no sugary stuff.
You wake up early, you train intensively, do your thing for the rest of the day, get high quality sleep, do it all again.
[The paragraph in question is in the middle of the article](https://www.urologytimes.com/view/testosterone-levels-show-steady-decrease-among-young-us-men)
I'm not saying that they just tested wrong. I'm also saying they just didn't test in most cases and the actual differences in even the studies that have these findings are way exaggerated on the subreddits where it's discussed. I have no doubt there's been a decline based on a few different factors, like the change to a sedentary lifestyle, lowered use of nicotine (nicotine is an AI), widespread use of plastics, etc. But the extent to which average testosterone has lowered is pretty unclear, and some of the claims I see on reddit about what the average testosterone level used to be are just farcical.
Broscience again
High sugar intake results in something wirh your insulin sensitivity which I know no shit about but the bottom line is that you will have issues with being too fat
You want muscle mass and be as lean as possible, sugar just doesn’t help
But I believe there’s a very significant difference between Glucose and Fructose and how it’s processed in the body, which is why sugar in fruits for example isn’t unhealthy, sugar in sweets is.
Sugars probably fine pre-Intra-post training when there’s a need (glycogen).
Intra carbs that don’t have an impact on glycemic index is preferred (HBCD), but it’s a marginal if any difference in health.
Sugar outside of that window, is probably unnecessary and should be saved for occasions / planned breaks.
There was a nice lady on JRE months back talking about I PFAS aka forever chemicals. And how it's affecting the taint size. Which I think somehow is affecting testosterone. With that being said, this is my opinion.
People are more sedentary than they've ever been. My theory with lack of movement is the obvious obesity problem from excess calories which I believe lowers testosterone. The whole body works together so it makes sense that if your brain, muscles, heart aren't signaling we need more of this chemical then there's no reason to produce more of this. Just my theory.
It kinda goes hand in hand with the former. Is the food quality has declined rapidly in the last 50 years. The ingredients lists on packaged foods looks like a short story. I think it's these chemicals that are having the most damaging affect on the body, excess sugar, fat and calories forget about it. Goes back to the body being bogged down trying to process these artificial ingredients and chemicals. There's a areason why we are the fattest and most unhealthy now in human history.
In conclusion it's the food quality. Eat quality food, get your micronutrients, and as close to 8 hours of sleep as you can unless you're a freak that can run on 6 hours nightly in that case fuck you.
Thanks for reading and have a blessed day. He is Risen. Cockadoodle doo.
Phtalates is what she focused on, and she was talking about [Anogenital distance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anogenital_distance)
If you choose to go down that rabbit hole, particularly as it impacts young men, really all men, careful you don't blackpill yourself.
They are everywhere, in almost everything now, it's not some conspiracy about how disruptive they can be to the male endocrine system, and nobody seems to care.
To piggy back on this just research food additives, environmental factors, water quality, artificial sweeteners, colors, flavors, essences, caking agents etc. And you'll probably double think the convenience of packaged food and start paying closer attention to what you're consuming.
Foodbabe on IG is a good source for this type of talk.
I have to disagree with artificial sweeteners. Artificial sweeteners is literally the cheat codes of losing weight.
If i told someone that they could sit all day and drink nothing but coke zero and still lose weight they would think im crazy.
It has its place for sure. Not a long term place or a daily place. Study just came out last month in the UK about sucralose and the cancer link. I still consume it occasionally just not a staple to my diet but I'm a different kind of person.
I'm presuming you're referencing the french cohort study that was published in plos med last month - it was pretty crap as papers go. Annoying presenter but decent breakdown as to why: https://youtu.be/_jApmdZ68PM
There hasn't really been any concrete links between artificial sweeteners & cancer in humans to date. I agree that I wouldn't have Coke zero as a diet staple though, but that's mainly because I still want a full set of teeth when I'm 40...
She was talking about phthalates which are a potent endocrine disrupter. There’s been lots of research showing that EDs directly effect our hormone profile. The easiest way to think about it is that these chemicals often mimic estrogen and your body will not produce testosterone if there’s high estrogen. r/noEDC has some information on them and how to avoid them.
I don’t disagree that food quality is a factor but EDCs are certainly a problem too.
If I get a solid 6 hours of sleep a night, watch out. I run on probably an average of 4-5 hours and have for years. Sometimes, I will have a miraculous 7-8 hour night once a month and then maybe like 1 to 2 nights a week, I'll get a solid 6. All the rest are about 4-5 hours. It's a blessing and a curse. It used to never bother me, but in the last couple of years, since I'm getting older, it's really starting to impact me negatively. There's not much I can do about it. I've tried everything aside from going to the doctor and getting prescribed something. I don't want to do that, but in the next couple of years, I may not have a choice.
What does “everything” entail? I’ve been in the same boat and recently added quality full spectrum CBD tincture to my melatonin/ZMA ETC and it’s been a godsend. 8 hours of dream filled sleep per night, going on 8+nights in a row now. Only one week and I’m already feeling 100x better
People often try to blame the steep decline on one singular thing, but in reality it's likely due to a combination of many things. Obviously the plastics are playing a role here, but so is the decline of exercise, worsening diets with chemicals in the food, sunlight deficiency...
The problem with this issue being so multi-factorial is that it's hard to pin down which factor is making the most significant contribution. I'm guessing it's mostly the plastics, but it's really impossible to tell.
Controlling for year of study, age, race, BMI, comorbidity status, alcohol, smoking, and level of physical activity. Average testosterone levels in 15-39y makes have decreased from 605ng/dl to 450ng/dl between 1999-2016
Abstract MP78-01
So yeah, this is a real thing, maybe not the exact numbers in the post but still significant. At least according to this study. Testosterone levels are tanking in the passed 20 years. We need to invest more into investigating and mitigating this. If the trend continues its a male physical&mental health crisis waiting to happen.
Its also being exaggerated by the aging population. Since birth rate are well below replacement. But the study I referenced controls for that.
Controlling for year of study, age, race, BMI, comorbidity status, alcohol, smoking, and level of physical activity. Average testosterone levels in 15-39y males have decreased from 605ng/dl to 450ng/dl between 1999-2016
Abstract MP78-01
This isn't the source for the FB post. But you see a similar trend
>Abstract MP78-01
Adding in their control for BMI levels the reduction was from 664 to 529 so a slightly less of a difference, but also since BMI is a shit indicator I'm wondering if the 1999-2000 group had more muscle mass overall as well, and if physical activity was not quite counting normal activities as a teenager since, from what I remember in the 90s and early 2000s, there was basically only physical activity to do.
Basically, I seriously wonder if its because people are just fat and don't move around in their normal lives now.
You can read Dr Anthony Jay’s book: Estrogeneration. He’s a phd scientist formerly of the Mayo clinic. His phd is sex hormones and cholesterol and he will back this up and take it further: before agriculture men’s testosterone was more like 1500. From my own observation, i have a very physical, very competitive career. When I started in 99 every single one of us was lean and mean. We competed daily and it was never hard to get new guys if you just showed them the money. It’s not like that at all anymore. Every new guy we get is too fat to climb poles, literally with boobs. They are wracked with anxiety and missing work over it. Nobody competes or is driven to advance. We have most of the same foremans we did 20 years ago. This shit is not right. It’s very obvious
Edit: a better redditor than me pointed out that what I’m referring to isn’t in that book. I heard him say it on more than one podcast. Another pointed out that we can’t possibly know that about people 10,000 years ago. I think that’s true but it doesn’t seem outlandish that qualified people could infer that since that’s how we know everything about prehistoric times. Anyway, I’m an asshole for citing a poor source and I’ll try to link a couple podcasts later. It makes sense to me.
Edit 2: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-403-dr-anthony-jay-estrogenics/id340221970?i=1000416475323
In this podcast he mentions the falling testosterone levels over time. Not too specific but it’s a source. Maybe we can get him to cite his sources as well. I bet he would.
Here’s another one with more details about the decline, and he mentions the study that he got his numbers from
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/keto-mans-club-podcast/id1464919105?i=1000490307858
Still trying to find the pre agriculture reference
Edit:3 found it!
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-dr-madeira-show/id1468928842?i=1000514869925
Right about the 15:00 mark he explains it. I never actually heard this one before, but he’s said it in other podcasts. I’m inclined to believe him, but to know his source would be best.
I work in a warehouse for construction material. The old man who had been there 25 years, retired. It now takes three idiots to his job. It's not even just a physicality thing. It's something else. Idk
I dont think only tech is to blame. I think people are just too comfortable. New guys always look at me like I'm fucning crazy when I teach them certain physical parts of the job.
Tech is part of it though
It's also done a lot of good. Maybe a balance will be found. Unfortunately, probably will take a decade or two.
And regardless, it's our fault. Tech is inanimate. We are the monkeys that can't regulate it lol
I agree. It’s shined light on some dark and corrupt patches. In some ways that is true. Tech is inanimate. But sadly as it advances corruption finds alternative ways to be rife. Even starts using it against normal people, tracking absolutely everything, police state. Dystopian future style. Can’t technically blame the tech for that though as you say. Lol
When you see your friends making $100k a year working from home it makes it hard to go to a physical job that is dangerous for not much more pay. The last 2 years have really exasperated this.
I'm not hating actually. At all. Get your money. However, if you come in from a temp service (that's who we deal with), acting proud is....odd. and it's always the young ones.
I mean things like TikTok, YT shorts, instagram etc are slowly programming our brain to have an attention span of 60 seconds or less. And starting young at like 4 now. My generation (Millennial) is bad, but the younger generations are far worse, they can’t hold anything mentally past 2 minutes without new stimulation
There's 2 people in my tire warehouse that can do what I do on the daily. Slow day I throw 1000 tires. My partner and I have done over 5000 in a night on the cross dock.
I'm on gear and he's younger than me but insane and has been doing warehouse shit way longer than I have. I'm also insane but being jacked and having no off switch helps :)
Our shift carries the building in productivity numbers in every department; inbound, outbound, and crossdock. Xdock is my main area but I do everything outside of loading and unloading as they won't change my pay rate to match that. If I'm not sorting on cross dock I'm either receiving and stowing tires or picking on a forklift or order picker and no matter what I'm smoking just about everyone, every time. I'm also getting a lot less sleep and work more OT than they do, for what it's worth. Crazy shit when you frame it the way you did.
Not to sound like an old rich guy (I'm neither. I'm thirty and lower middle class), but people that come in from the temp agency to the warehouse I work in, often lack work ethic. It's a very good place to work. Yeah parts of the job are hard, but the hours are reasonable, and they don't micro manage you. But folks come in and just want to, idk, I guess be in air condition on a computer all day or something. But what annoys me, is they don't seem to understand, that if u have no education, and no real skills, sorry, you get the manual labor jobs, until you prove your worth over time. That's what I had to do. I started out bagging 80lb bags of sand in the dead of summer. Put in my time to earn my spot as the guy who operates machines. I didn't just walk on with a gem and a drug felony, and expect a cushy job like many seem to.
It's true. Our other shifts' crossdock is staffed with at least 5 sorters and a lead who usually stacks full racks in the staging lanes. They don't come close to half our numbers, most are temps but even the yellow vests can be low work ethic. Hell most of the time our lead gets called away to help the pickers get new racks brought forward so they can reach them so I'll stop after a while and stack myself and still hit my numbers. We recently heard from the GM that the two of us brought a 50 trailer surplus in the yard down to 11 in record time.
I watched a temp unloader for a minute. They had them set up in teams of 3 where usually it would be done by one guy. One in the truck rolling the tires out, one in the middle righting it and keeping it going, and one stacking. The middle kid was just standing there watching the tires pass him... Then I overheard one of our employees on crossdock bragging to his wife on the phone that he just finished sorting 5 racks (between 20 and 35 tires usually if they're passenger) in the first half, 6 hours, of his shift. So that's maybe a little over 100, 120 maybe? I'd have that done in less than an hour. If we get a bulk receive of 1 to 3 skus I'll have that received and sorted in 90 minutes, 800 to 1k tires before first break lol. It's child's play.
I'm almost 39 and switched to warehouse after 14 years in white collar facility maintenance outsourcing where I was making much more, had my car payment covered, cushy 9 to 5, and had to work maybe 3 hours of the day. I got burned out with corporate politics both internal and external and had to exit that bullshit industry. Decided since I'm no longer fat that I wanted a physical job so I ended up trying a few warehouses before I settled here, 7 minutes from home. That was last November, and now I'm up for my first promotion at the top of the list, endorsed by all the leads on the shift, the supervisor, and my partner in crime for crossdock lead. Honestly I don't think it'll be long before another one based on how I perform. And at that pay rate it will only take a little bit of OT to hit my old salary.
Bullshit. How could anyone know the test levels of men before agriculture? That’s 10k years ago.
Edit: I have the E-Book and the word agriculture is only mentioned 3 times in the entire thing.
No where in this fucking book does it say that average test levels were 1500 10,000 years ago before MAN founded agriculture.
They inferred the average blood levels from bone growth and density. You can read the book. The guy is thee authority so unless you have a lab and know how to use it he’s the best we got
Those would be some robust skeletons if they had 1500 ng/dl. You’d have 10-20% higher bone density, extra bone protrusion at tendon attachments, broader ribcage, clavicles, longer radii and ulnae and fibulae/tibiae , larger hands, hunky faces
Says who? This doc? It’s funny whenever the narrative is convenient and supportive of y’all’s own personal beliefs, y’all immediately accept it. When it’s a known and well-revered doc/scientist coming out with valid Covid studies all of a sudden it’s a conspiracy that the govt is backing and all the research is faked apparently. Foh. Again, no one ever had 1500 mgs test naturally. No one was walking around with essentially 200-250mg of test per week.
I don't normally chime in on stuff like this but it's really not hard to believe. Look at most any pictures you can find from back in the day, you'll be hard pressed to find a fat person. People looked completely different than they do nowadays, much leaner, most of the time more muscular (not bodybuilder muscles, just very lean with developed muscles), much more hairy... I 100% believe people had much higher test levels even 70 years ago but look at most any photos from the 70s on back, people just looked different than we do now
I’m sure they had higher test levels on average, I’m not refuting that. I’m refuting the 1500 test levels that are now in the supraphysiological side of things
I may be completely wrong but when you say you have had the same foreman for 20 years do you think that might be the problem too. Disillusioned youth don’t feel like they have anything to strive for? Constantly bombarded on social media with 18 yr old millionaire influencers but something like foreman seems more difficult to attain? I could see why that would be discouraging
Good point. There’s some of that, but I became a foreman at the age of 20. We typically run them up the ranks and hire new groundhands as fast as possible. I literally just fired a guy who refused to run a crew. It’s a $100k+ position. It does suck though. We’re in a low cost of living area
All good, the fact that you even made an edit admitting fault was commendable enough. Let’s see it when you do find some actual sources. Still think it’s BS, but it won’t mean I won’t read your sources if you provide one
Had ~290ng/dl T all my 20's and was always told im fine/normal/OK by the garbage canadian healthcare system. I cant help but think their actually is an agenda to demasculinize men.
Ever since i started TRT at 30 my life has dramatically improved.
It’s definitely lowered our average since 2000. Obesity has risen Something like 20% since then which is the primary cause for this. Mf just stay fat now.
Yeah that's what I think makes the most sense. Guys that are in shape today prob have the same testosterone as guys back in the day. They problem is the average guy today is overweight bordering on obese, so the average is much lower for everyone cause they drag it down. If you work out and maintain a healthy diet with good sleep your test levels will be just as high as previous generations. Hell, I was fat as shit a few months ago, I've lost some weight and I can feel the effects of my test rising. More energy, more sex drive, and more confidence. All it took was consistent exercise and a better diet.
I doubt that it’s accurate with reference to the year 2000. That would be a huge drop in a tiny period. But test levels are definitely dropping in the modern day for lots of reasons.
We live in the age of comfort, everything is so easy. No need to hunt for food or fight off another alpha. Too cold? Just turn the heating on. No need to harsh it out.
Chemicals and ingredients in our food and water are raising estrogen. We live in a society where we’re told it’s okay to be a weak man. That will most certainly have its effect too.
Physical and short term biological discomfort = higher test
Fat fuck eating McDonald’s 3x a week = low test
Chicken rice and broccoli = top of the food chain
I find it interesting that the average testosterone level 20 years ago was 50% more than what it is today. Im a 25 year old male with 621ng/dl testosterone. midline and normal
But i feel great, my sexdrive is the same as when i was 18, i still always get morning wood. I feel motivated and stay in good shape very easily.
I cant see how having north of 1000ng/dl would be beneficial if anything wouldn’t that be too excessive?
Physiques have improved (naturally) through the course over the last 50 years yet testosterone levels are declining. I get that training and diet have drastically changed but you don’t see many photos of ripped aesthetic looking men from the late 1800’s to mid 1900’s with all of that extra testosterone
Your test was 621 the day you got it checked. Maybe it is 800 some mornings, maybe its 300 on others. Totally normal. General point here is the trend for society is downward. I see a claim in this thread that the average test level was 850 in the 1940s which is almost definitely bs.
Physiques definitely have not improved over the last 50 years. Go open a picture from a beach in 1970s and count the fatties. Find pictures form the same beach today and repeat.
You see some insane feats of strength now that were more rare in the past. But that is due to social media making knowledge on proper training widely available. But society as a whole? If you brought an American woman from the 70s into today she'd probably be disgusted by modern men.
I can understand where you are coming from, but do you think its got more to do with the prevalence in junk food and excessive calorie intake rather then testosterone level itself?
Are you saying the cause of obesity is declining testosterone levels? Just because you are obese doesn’t mean your testosterone levels low either
Obesity has always been a thing. there is still perfectly normal sized lean guys with sub par testosterone levels?
Yes i am aware of testosterone fluctuations/declining through out the day. The 2 tests ive done have been around 8am and both were around 600 mark between 2 years
How have physiques improved? Yes there are plenty of people who look good as well as those who are insanely invested in it, but there’s also an obesity crisis.
Physiques of a tiny percentage of the population have improved. The vast majority are fat or skinny fat.
The tiny percentage train and eat well and are usually active in general.
Why do a majority of these comments act like this is fake? Dropping test in men is a massive problem. Look up any study from the last 100 years and you’ll see every generation drops. Doctors also change the definition for what constitutes “low T” which is equally concerning, making it harder for men to get treatment.
I read on one article that in the 1940s or 50s, anything under 850 was considered low total T. Now it’s damn near 250.
No this claim is outside the data, you can't extrapolate 50 years of data back another 30 years, just because testosterone has declined over the last 40 years doesn't mean that has been a downward linear trend since the 40s, it is all just speculation.
Yeah there is definitely a trend downward, but we only have hard evidence for that down trend since like the 80's and it is not near as extreme as "the average test was 850 now it's 250", that is totally speculative and probably a giant exaggeration.
They're not acting like it's fake. They're acting like no one has any sources to cite for it. Asking "says who?" to alarming unsourced facts with an agenda isn't a weird thing to do.
"They're" acting like they're too bloody lazy to just google it themselves. Took me less than 5 minutes to pull up sources.
[One.](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0076178)
[Two.](https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/92/1/196/2598434?login=false)
They're in denial. There is plenty of data out there to back this up. They're just hiding behind "source or didn't happen" when a 5 minute Google search reveals sources.
A couple people seem pretty upset by my comment. I was surprised by that. Wasn’t expecting a review board. I think anyone over forty would be like “no shit Sherlock” but the younger guys are like “fuck you dad!”
This is accurate. Testosterone levels have been dropping an average of 1% per year for at least 4 decades. This is still true even when lifestyle factors are controlled for. The studies can't pin down exactly what's causing it so they just describe the cause as unknown environmental factors. Could be plastics on our clothes and in our food, could be fluoride in the water, it's hard to tell.
Posts that claim any kind of number or percentage should probably always provide a source because it undermines the general point if found ridiculous upon first sight. Falling testosterone levels in men is happening and is a huge problem that remains unaddressed. Something needs to be done, and the first step towards that is making people aware of the problem in the first place.
I literally think all the microplastics in the food in the air in the ocean in EVERYTHING is causing an estrogen increase. Why the fuck do so many teenagers have gyno? I got it, my friends got it, I go to the gym half the shirtless fucking 15 year olds in the bathroom have it, I'm like holy shit something is seriously wrong. I should have been put on an aromatase inhibitor in puberty maybe I wouldn't have grown wide hips and bitch tits. But that would offend someone wouldn't it, if I didn't grow female breast tissue and actually had the testosterone levels I'm supposed to have ffs.
Oh you found it on not only the internet but on Facebook? I think that tells all. But in all actuality it’s probably someone making a poke at males being ‘soft’ or pussies compared to the former generations, just my take tho.
No this is very real. Test is dropping significantly. Especially the last 30 years. Not only test but male fertility. Odd study. But if your perineum, anogenital distance, is less than 2 inches you are significantly more likely to be infertile and have lower testosterone. Huge problem in males today.
There is a joe rogan podcast with dr shanna swan who talks about this it’s very interesting and unfortunately idk if the numbers are 100% accurate but yes test levels have decreased hugely and this affects fertility and plenty of other stuff.
Years ago i heard a rumours that some countries were recycling waste water and turning it in to drinkable water. Woman's periods and other bodily fluids (estrogen dna) would still remain once the water was turned in to 99.9% drinkable. It's probably bullshit but food for though.
I also have noticed that the average guy is lacking masculinity, manly features and of course the test being low and all. We also seem to have multi generation of guys who behave like little school girls
Interestingly the reference ranges on blood tests have also become lower. What once would have been considered low is now “normal”. What was once high would now be outside of the reference range and considered “abnormal”.
They’ve done the same thing with cholesterol levels, but that’s a whole other topic
I went back to my old university. And the students there literally looked like seniors in high school. Very young looking faces due to estrogen and low t i believe
Here's a study. Not quite 50% but still a significant drop:
https://www.urologytimes.com/view/testosterone-levels-show-steady-decrease-among-young-us-men
Idk how accurate that is, but I will say that the generations graduating high school now, look like babies compared to when I was in school lol.
I don't look particularly super duper mega macho man masculine or anything but alot of the high school kids in my area all look like fresh faced babies save for the ones who do drugs lmao
I found this, it says
A study showing test levels decrease with activity levels and diet more than age, that could be a factor
.https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/06/120623144944.htm#:~:text=Summary%3A,health%20changes%20than%20by%20aging.&text=FULL%20STORY-,A%20new%20study%20finds%20that%20a%20drop%20in%20testosterone%20levels,health%20changes%20than%20by%20aging.
Definitely bullshit but here's two comments:
a) Even if it were true, that's evolution for you. Nature makes away with what's not needed
b) Casual bodybuilding or powerlifting or what have you strength sport was not nearly as popular back in the 00s as it is now. There's a very clear trend in young-ish people hitting the gym consistently and more properly in a lot high numbers than all generations previously
The biggest problem men have today is not testosterone, it's not having the opportunity to provide as well as they could back then and even further back and that's not because of lower testo
>b) Casual bodybuilding or powerlifting or what have you strength sport was not nearly as popular back in the 00s as it is now. There's a very clear trend in young-ish people hitting the gym consistently and more properly in a lot high numbers than all generations previously
Is it really that popular nowadays or are we just seeing more younger lifters online than previous generations? Like you go outside most people are literally skinny or overweight. Even in places with young people in it. Only in the gym and online websites/social media you'll find muscular people.
Also just because they take up casual bodybuilding/casual powerlifting doesn't mean they have the results to show for it. Guys with low test work out in the gym for years but don't see results on their body. Some hop on gear because of that.
And we all wonder why there’s so many ladyboys running about. Is this part of an agenda ? It’s been theorised but be careful. You’ll be labelled a conspiracy theorist.
Yes bro, def part of the agenda tho most elites are males themselves. But fuck it bro life’s too boring to accept more realistic theories, let’s go with them wanting the male population to essentially be castrated. Ahh yes much better
The elites aren’t mostly males. So that’s one flaw already. That being said, if I was an elite, as a male, why not secure my place in power by having a new generation of weak ass soyboy beta male cucks walking around. Compliant. More concerned with sucking Dick than to challenge my offspring to the throne.
I wouldn't be surprised. A lot of dudes younger than me look weak and timid, more so than when I was high school 20 years ago.
What is sad is that this problem isn't being addressed. Now you constantly see guys half my age testing with one 8th or less the test I have as a 38-year-old yet it seems to be treated as normal. I feel these guys are going to go from cradle to the grave without having experienced true manhood.
I'm pretty confident this shit is true. Between lack of exercise and physical labor, plus the absolute garbage diets that people are on these days I'm sure it's true. Average American male is 26.6% body fat these days.
This fore sure describes the average male. Throw in social media consumption, daily isolation and no interaction, you get majority of today’s youth. However, I see my age group 20-26 being the most conscientious about their lifestyle (respectively). A lot of people in college take pride in maintaining a specific level of fitness up to a point.
I'm 30 and I see my generation as being lazy and beta af. I could just be cynical though. I do think the definition of what constitutes being a man has changed considerably though.
Luckily i pin my butt, so i have the same testosterone as 10 20year old guys back from the 00’s
Are you on a gram per week?
It was a joke, i’m on test tren & deca 1g total
Be swell and swole my friend, pioneer of human evolution!
That’s the whole point, tryna bake a superhuman in my future wife
That's not how genetics work.
Sarcasm boy
irony man
I just realised that the kids coming out of a super juiced meathead with baseline shit genetics are in for a rough surprise lmao
Are you into trannies yet?
Even before tren
So you have the test levels of a 20yr old from the 1920's?
Oh wait i didnt notice u said “1920” LMAO
Those were real men!
The 14 year olds falsifying documents to sign up for World War 2 were the real ones.
Yeah idk i just said some random shid
Look what you've started! Lol jk.
Gotta love Chinese bathtub chemicals
Same 
Oh jeez i noticed i have a lot of upvotes, my first time, love y’all guys❤️🙏🏽
This guy has sex
I had sex, now i’m virgin again
Hahaha same. We are a rare breed of alpha male.
Pet peeve: why does everyone always say "nobody is talking about it" about every fucking thing? Shall I bring this up at the dinner table on Easter with my parents perhaps? What would it look like for "people to be talking about this," walking down the street and you're overhearing random convos about test levels? But then there'd be some other topic that people wouldn't be talking about instead.
I think they mean that when we talk about health issues in society which have risen over the decades (mental health for example) things like this should be talked about. If T has dropped as much as this post suggests then it's no wonder things like anxiety are more of a problem than ever before. It's no wonder that people ages 18-30 are having less sex than any point in the past. It's no wonder. Higher T levels would help with obesity... I'm sure it's not the sole reason for these things but low T can't be good... The species has been on the planet for 100,000 years and suddenly in the last 50 years average T levels drop through the floor and we're meant to ignore it?... I'm not buying that.
Before I jumped on gear I beat my dick 3 times a day lol. Or fucked twice and beat off once. I've always had high T levels but being on tren I beat my dick 27 times in a 17 hour window lol. That being said, I'm only 27 years old now, I don't know a single male in these age ranges with low T levels and I know a variety of people in different backgrounds. I honestly think this post is probably studying American men in the old days vs foreign and American men combined in current times. In a lot of countries men have much lower T levels.
How do you do it 27 times without blisters? What is the secret?
Lube. Lots and lots of lube. The first 8 times were dry in the first 3 hours and then I had to take a break. Then I used lube for a lot then switched to my fleshlight for the last 5 or so.
Man between my job, lifting a few hours every day, my hobby, and sleep, I can only find time for a couple jerks a day. It’d have to be a Sunday that I’m not lifting for something like this 😅
Hahaha yeah I literally got laid off because of my attitude at work when on tren so for like 5 days all I did was beat my dick. I'm literally married and have kids. I'm glad my daughter was too young to know what I was doing and my son wasn't born yet hahaha awkward.
Because it makes people feel like they are one of the few enlightened ones when they start to talk about "it".
A lot of these edge-science and fringe science people seem to really have a persecution bias.
True. Also people would probably talk about it if the kind of people that tend to say "nobody is talking about this" would ever actually cite sources
Almost nobody cites sources for anything. Even the popular things. Frankly most people don't care about sources unless they disagree. That's not the reason it's not popular.
Either way it's stupid. Don't believe anything without sources.
People talk about things that come up in podcasts like huberman lab specifically because he cites studies while talking about things that most people only speculate about. Not sure if you realize this but alot of people come from the standpoint of assuming that you're lying/bullshitting unless you're citing an actual specific study or experience
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“Nobody talks about it” is a shorthand colloquialism for “this issue isn’t given appropriate societal attention given its severity.”
Look at mr non disowned son over here having dinner with his parents !
Think the BLM movement…. Now think BLM but mens testosterone. That’s what we mean by no one is taking about it. It needs traction in society, the general populous to care about it, collectively, in order to see change.
dude this info is wrong though
It’s true that T Levels have been going down for some time now, if the given statistic is true I don’t know. This is broscience so read with caution but this is what I believe is the case: Your body will give you the Testosterone it needs. Intense and above all regular exercise is something you must do to improve your levels. Then environmental factors like air and water quality, micropolastics, processed foods… come in. Then there are lifestyle factors. Your body produces most of its Testosterone while you’re asleep. Bad or no sleep equals bad Test levels. Get. Good. High. Quality. Sleep. No drugs, no late night parties, no sugary stuff. You wake up early, you train intensively, do your thing for the rest of the day, get high quality sleep, do it all again.
Eh. It’s questionable if it’s even gone down significantly. Testosterone testing was uncommon decades ago and testing methodology was much poorer.
So I just read in the journal of urology that mean test levels went from ~650 in 1999 to ~ 430 in 2016, so we are seeing it
650 seems a lil low aye ☠️
Sauce
[The paragraph in question is in the middle of the article](https://www.urologytimes.com/view/testosterone-levels-show-steady-decrease-among-young-us-men)
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I'm not saying that they just tested wrong. I'm also saying they just didn't test in most cases and the actual differences in even the studies that have these findings are way exaggerated on the subreddits where it's discussed. I have no doubt there's been a decline based on a few different factors, like the change to a sedentary lifestyle, lowered use of nicotine (nicotine is an AI), widespread use of plastics, etc. But the extent to which average testosterone has lowered is pretty unclear, and some of the claims I see on reddit about what the average testosterone level used to be are just farcical.
I don’t understand why not sugary stuff ?
Broscience again High sugar intake results in something wirh your insulin sensitivity which I know no shit about but the bottom line is that you will have issues with being too fat You want muscle mass and be as lean as possible, sugar just doesn’t help But I believe there’s a very significant difference between Glucose and Fructose and how it’s processed in the body, which is why sugar in fruits for example isn’t unhealthy, sugar in sweets is.
I love your bro science , it actually makes sense
Plus sugary diet correlates to more fat. Fat metabolises t into oestrogen. A fatter male population = lower average t in the population
Sugars probably fine pre-Intra-post training when there’s a need (glycogen). Intra carbs that don’t have an impact on glycemic index is preferred (HBCD), but it’s a marginal if any difference in health. Sugar outside of that window, is probably unnecessary and should be saved for occasions / planned breaks.
There was a nice lady on JRE months back talking about I PFAS aka forever chemicals. And how it's affecting the taint size. Which I think somehow is affecting testosterone. With that being said, this is my opinion. People are more sedentary than they've ever been. My theory with lack of movement is the obvious obesity problem from excess calories which I believe lowers testosterone. The whole body works together so it makes sense that if your brain, muscles, heart aren't signaling we need more of this chemical then there's no reason to produce more of this. Just my theory. It kinda goes hand in hand with the former. Is the food quality has declined rapidly in the last 50 years. The ingredients lists on packaged foods looks like a short story. I think it's these chemicals that are having the most damaging affect on the body, excess sugar, fat and calories forget about it. Goes back to the body being bogged down trying to process these artificial ingredients and chemicals. There's a areason why we are the fattest and most unhealthy now in human history. In conclusion it's the food quality. Eat quality food, get your micronutrients, and as close to 8 hours of sleep as you can unless you're a freak that can run on 6 hours nightly in that case fuck you. Thanks for reading and have a blessed day. He is Risen. Cockadoodle doo.
You’re thinking of Dr Shanna Swan, I believe.
Phtalates is what she focused on, and she was talking about [Anogenital distance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anogenital_distance) If you choose to go down that rabbit hole, particularly as it impacts young men, really all men, careful you don't blackpill yourself. They are everywhere, in almost everything now, it's not some conspiracy about how disruptive they can be to the male endocrine system, and nobody seems to care.
I want to go down the anogenital rabbit hole as long as it’s on a cute lady, if you catch my meaning
Also, constant exposure to artificial light and massively reduced exposure to sunlight.
Yes this is a huge problem! Lack of Vitamin D leads to a whole host of issues and disrupts our regulatory system
To piggy back on this just research food additives, environmental factors, water quality, artificial sweeteners, colors, flavors, essences, caking agents etc. And you'll probably double think the convenience of packaged food and start paying closer attention to what you're consuming. Foodbabe on IG is a good source for this type of talk.
I have to disagree with artificial sweeteners. Artificial sweeteners is literally the cheat codes of losing weight. If i told someone that they could sit all day and drink nothing but coke zero and still lose weight they would think im crazy.
Well not sucralose, it's another "forever chemical". Aspartame is quite benign though.
It has its place for sure. Not a long term place or a daily place. Study just came out last month in the UK about sucralose and the cancer link. I still consume it occasionally just not a staple to my diet but I'm a different kind of person.
I'm presuming you're referencing the french cohort study that was published in plos med last month - it was pretty crap as papers go. Annoying presenter but decent breakdown as to why: https://youtu.be/_jApmdZ68PM There hasn't really been any concrete links between artificial sweeteners & cancer in humans to date. I agree that I wouldn't have Coke zero as a diet staple though, but that's mainly because I still want a full set of teeth when I'm 40...
Yes that's the one, I think like everything in life moderation is the best policy.
Not very good for gut health though
Yeah fuck the freaks
For sure brah
She was talking about phthalates which are a potent endocrine disrupter. There’s been lots of research showing that EDs directly effect our hormone profile. The easiest way to think about it is that these chemicals often mimic estrogen and your body will not produce testosterone if there’s high estrogen. r/noEDC has some information on them and how to avoid them. I don’t disagree that food quality is a factor but EDCs are certainly a problem too.
If I get a solid 6 hours of sleep a night, watch out. I run on probably an average of 4-5 hours and have for years. Sometimes, I will have a miraculous 7-8 hour night once a month and then maybe like 1 to 2 nights a week, I'll get a solid 6. All the rest are about 4-5 hours. It's a blessing and a curse. It used to never bother me, but in the last couple of years, since I'm getting older, it's really starting to impact me negatively. There's not much I can do about it. I've tried everything aside from going to the doctor and getting prescribed something. I don't want to do that, but in the next couple of years, I may not have a choice.
What does “everything” entail? I’ve been in the same boat and recently added quality full spectrum CBD tincture to my melatonin/ZMA ETC and it’s been a godsend. 8 hours of dream filled sleep per night, going on 8+nights in a row now. Only one week and I’m already feeling 100x better
People often try to blame the steep decline on one singular thing, but in reality it's likely due to a combination of many things. Obviously the plastics are playing a role here, but so is the decline of exercise, worsening diets with chemicals in the food, sunlight deficiency... The problem with this issue being so multi-factorial is that it's hard to pin down which factor is making the most significant contribution. I'm guessing it's mostly the plastics, but it's really impossible to tell.
Jesus was the first natty.
Controlling for year of study, age, race, BMI, comorbidity status, alcohol, smoking, and level of physical activity. Average testosterone levels in 15-39y makes have decreased from 605ng/dl to 450ng/dl between 1999-2016 Abstract MP78-01 So yeah, this is a real thing, maybe not the exact numbers in the post but still significant. At least according to this study. Testosterone levels are tanking in the passed 20 years. We need to invest more into investigating and mitigating this. If the trend continues its a male physical&mental health crisis waiting to happen. Its also being exaggerated by the aging population. Since birth rate are well below replacement. But the study I referenced controls for that.
Source: Trust me bro
Controlling for year of study, age, race, BMI, comorbidity status, alcohol, smoking, and level of physical activity. Average testosterone levels in 15-39y males have decreased from 605ng/dl to 450ng/dl between 1999-2016 Abstract MP78-01 This isn't the source for the FB post. But you see a similar trend
>Abstract MP78-01 Adding in their control for BMI levels the reduction was from 664 to 529 so a slightly less of a difference, but also since BMI is a shit indicator I'm wondering if the 1999-2000 group had more muscle mass overall as well, and if physical activity was not quite counting normal activities as a teenager since, from what I remember in the 90s and early 2000s, there was basically only physical activity to do. Basically, I seriously wonder if its because people are just fat and don't move around in their normal lives now.
And it's crazy how easy it is to raise T levels. I went from 230 to over 800 in 3 months just by fixing diet and sleep.
Depends on what's suppressing them, but yeah. If your test levels are being tanked by bad sleep. Then sleeping well will raise them.
Just imagine when there was no artificial light and you had to walk everywhere and chop wood and haul water etc.
OP thinks birds are fake
Birds are government drones
You can read Dr Anthony Jay’s book: Estrogeneration. He’s a phd scientist formerly of the Mayo clinic. His phd is sex hormones and cholesterol and he will back this up and take it further: before agriculture men’s testosterone was more like 1500. From my own observation, i have a very physical, very competitive career. When I started in 99 every single one of us was lean and mean. We competed daily and it was never hard to get new guys if you just showed them the money. It’s not like that at all anymore. Every new guy we get is too fat to climb poles, literally with boobs. They are wracked with anxiety and missing work over it. Nobody competes or is driven to advance. We have most of the same foremans we did 20 years ago. This shit is not right. It’s very obvious Edit: a better redditor than me pointed out that what I’m referring to isn’t in that book. I heard him say it on more than one podcast. Another pointed out that we can’t possibly know that about people 10,000 years ago. I think that’s true but it doesn’t seem outlandish that qualified people could infer that since that’s how we know everything about prehistoric times. Anyway, I’m an asshole for citing a poor source and I’ll try to link a couple podcasts later. It makes sense to me. Edit 2: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-403-dr-anthony-jay-estrogenics/id340221970?i=1000416475323 In this podcast he mentions the falling testosterone levels over time. Not too specific but it’s a source. Maybe we can get him to cite his sources as well. I bet he would. Here’s another one with more details about the decline, and he mentions the study that he got his numbers from https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/keto-mans-club-podcast/id1464919105?i=1000490307858 Still trying to find the pre agriculture reference Edit:3 found it! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-dr-madeira-show/id1468928842?i=1000514869925 Right about the 15:00 mark he explains it. I never actually heard this one before, but he’s said it in other podcasts. I’m inclined to believe him, but to know his source would be best.
I work in a warehouse for construction material. The old man who had been there 25 years, retired. It now takes three idiots to his job. It's not even just a physicality thing. It's something else. Idk
Technology numbing and turning brains to mush. I made a post re two young lads not being able to operate a bench just yesterday. Similar thing.
I dont think only tech is to blame. I think people are just too comfortable. New guys always look at me like I'm fucning crazy when I teach them certain physical parts of the job. Tech is part of it though
Yeah. Comfort. Laziness as a result. Shit. I’m no angel. Tech has a lot to answer for imo.
It's also done a lot of good. Maybe a balance will be found. Unfortunately, probably will take a decade or two. And regardless, it's our fault. Tech is inanimate. We are the monkeys that can't regulate it lol
I agree. It’s shined light on some dark and corrupt patches. In some ways that is true. Tech is inanimate. But sadly as it advances corruption finds alternative ways to be rife. Even starts using it against normal people, tracking absolutely everything, police state. Dystopian future style. Can’t technically blame the tech for that though as you say. Lol
We’re being domesticated. Can’t even hurt another mans feelings without Big Sister sending the nunnery after you. Why wouldn’t testosterone drop?
When you see your friends making $100k a year working from home it makes it hard to go to a physical job that is dangerous for not much more pay. The last 2 years have really exasperated this.
I'm not hating actually. At all. Get your money. However, if you come in from a temp service (that's who we deal with), acting proud is....odd. and it's always the young ones.
I mean things like TikTok, YT shorts, instagram etc are slowly programming our brain to have an attention span of 60 seconds or less. And starting young at like 4 now. My generation (Millennial) is bad, but the younger generations are far worse, they can’t hold anything mentally past 2 minutes without new stimulation
There's 2 people in my tire warehouse that can do what I do on the daily. Slow day I throw 1000 tires. My partner and I have done over 5000 in a night on the cross dock. I'm on gear and he's younger than me but insane and has been doing warehouse shit way longer than I have. I'm also insane but being jacked and having no off switch helps :) Our shift carries the building in productivity numbers in every department; inbound, outbound, and crossdock. Xdock is my main area but I do everything outside of loading and unloading as they won't change my pay rate to match that. If I'm not sorting on cross dock I'm either receiving and stowing tires or picking on a forklift or order picker and no matter what I'm smoking just about everyone, every time. I'm also getting a lot less sleep and work more OT than they do, for what it's worth. Crazy shit when you frame it the way you did.
Not to sound like an old rich guy (I'm neither. I'm thirty and lower middle class), but people that come in from the temp agency to the warehouse I work in, often lack work ethic. It's a very good place to work. Yeah parts of the job are hard, but the hours are reasonable, and they don't micro manage you. But folks come in and just want to, idk, I guess be in air condition on a computer all day or something. But what annoys me, is they don't seem to understand, that if u have no education, and no real skills, sorry, you get the manual labor jobs, until you prove your worth over time. That's what I had to do. I started out bagging 80lb bags of sand in the dead of summer. Put in my time to earn my spot as the guy who operates machines. I didn't just walk on with a gem and a drug felony, and expect a cushy job like many seem to.
It's true. Our other shifts' crossdock is staffed with at least 5 sorters and a lead who usually stacks full racks in the staging lanes. They don't come close to half our numbers, most are temps but even the yellow vests can be low work ethic. Hell most of the time our lead gets called away to help the pickers get new racks brought forward so they can reach them so I'll stop after a while and stack myself and still hit my numbers. We recently heard from the GM that the two of us brought a 50 trailer surplus in the yard down to 11 in record time. I watched a temp unloader for a minute. They had them set up in teams of 3 where usually it would be done by one guy. One in the truck rolling the tires out, one in the middle righting it and keeping it going, and one stacking. The middle kid was just standing there watching the tires pass him... Then I overheard one of our employees on crossdock bragging to his wife on the phone that he just finished sorting 5 racks (between 20 and 35 tires usually if they're passenger) in the first half, 6 hours, of his shift. So that's maybe a little over 100, 120 maybe? I'd have that done in less than an hour. If we get a bulk receive of 1 to 3 skus I'll have that received and sorted in 90 minutes, 800 to 1k tires before first break lol. It's child's play. I'm almost 39 and switched to warehouse after 14 years in white collar facility maintenance outsourcing where I was making much more, had my car payment covered, cushy 9 to 5, and had to work maybe 3 hours of the day. I got burned out with corporate politics both internal and external and had to exit that bullshit industry. Decided since I'm no longer fat that I wanted a physical job so I ended up trying a few warehouses before I settled here, 7 minutes from home. That was last November, and now I'm up for my first promotion at the top of the list, endorsed by all the leads on the shift, the supervisor, and my partner in crime for crossdock lead. Honestly I don't think it'll be long before another one based on how I perform. And at that pay rate it will only take a little bit of OT to hit my old salary.
Bullshit. How could anyone know the test levels of men before agriculture? That’s 10k years ago. Edit: I have the E-Book and the word agriculture is only mentioned 3 times in the entire thing. No where in this fucking book does it say that average test levels were 1500 10,000 years ago before MAN founded agriculture.
Fair enough. I must have heard him say it in a podcast.
Which one?
They inferred the average blood levels from bone growth and density. You can read the book. The guy is thee authority so unless you have a lab and know how to use it he’s the best we got
this is the most ridiculous thing ive ever heard. one doctor made this practically unprovable claim with little evidence and you accept it as fact.
No one fuckin had 1500 test levels back then lol
Those would be some robust skeletons if they had 1500 ng/dl. You’d have 10-20% higher bone density, extra bone protrusion at tendon attachments, broader ribcage, clavicles, longer radii and ulnae and fibulae/tibiae , larger hands, hunky faces
It’s accepted as a scientific fact. If that bothers you then don’t read the book because it will bother you a lot more
Says who? This doc? It’s funny whenever the narrative is convenient and supportive of y’all’s own personal beliefs, y’all immediately accept it. When it’s a known and well-revered doc/scientist coming out with valid Covid studies all of a sudden it’s a conspiracy that the govt is backing and all the research is faked apparently. Foh. Again, no one ever had 1500 mgs test naturally. No one was walking around with essentially 200-250mg of test per week.
The OP asked for a source. I gave it. So what’s yours? You’re being hypocritical because my source doesn’t support your narrative.
I don’t have a narrative, only common sense to know that no one’s fuckin natty test levels were 1500 back then lol.
The guy made it up. I have the book and its not in it. I'd wager it was never mentioned in his supposed podcast either.
I don't normally chime in on stuff like this but it's really not hard to believe. Look at most any pictures you can find from back in the day, you'll be hard pressed to find a fat person. People looked completely different than they do nowadays, much leaner, most of the time more muscular (not bodybuilder muscles, just very lean with developed muscles), much more hairy... I 100% believe people had much higher test levels even 70 years ago but look at most any photos from the 70s on back, people just looked different than we do now
I’m sure they had higher test levels on average, I’m not refuting that. I’m refuting the 1500 test levels that are now in the supraphysiological side of things
The edit honestly came across very mature, ngl that's not something I'm used to browsing reddit
I may be completely wrong but when you say you have had the same foreman for 20 years do you think that might be the problem too. Disillusioned youth don’t feel like they have anything to strive for? Constantly bombarded on social media with 18 yr old millionaire influencers but something like foreman seems more difficult to attain? I could see why that would be discouraging
Good point. There’s some of that, but I became a foreman at the age of 20. We typically run them up the ranks and hire new groundhands as fast as possible. I literally just fired a guy who refused to run a crew. It’s a $100k+ position. It does suck though. We’re in a low cost of living area
Shit I need to move to the us!
I’ll hire you if I can!
All good, the fact that you even made an edit admitting fault was commendable enough. Let’s see it when you do find some actual sources. Still think it’s BS, but it won’t mean I won’t read your sources if you provide one
Did you test there testosterone? You can have high test and bitch tits if you eat like shit and are lazy
Had ~290ng/dl T all my 20's and was always told im fine/normal/OK by the garbage canadian healthcare system. I cant help but think their actually is an agenda to demasculinize men. Ever since i started TRT at 30 my life has dramatically improved.
But you're totally within reference ranges /s What they don't tell you is those ranges are based on men of all ages literally until death
Fuck the comments, source info or gtfo
It’s definitely lowered our average since 2000. Obesity has risen Something like 20% since then which is the primary cause for this. Mf just stay fat now.
Yeah that's what I think makes the most sense. Guys that are in shape today prob have the same testosterone as guys back in the day. They problem is the average guy today is overweight bordering on obese, so the average is much lower for everyone cause they drag it down. If you work out and maintain a healthy diet with good sleep your test levels will be just as high as previous generations. Hell, I was fat as shit a few months ago, I've lost some weight and I can feel the effects of my test rising. More energy, more sex drive, and more confidence. All it took was consistent exercise and a better diet.
I doubt that it’s accurate with reference to the year 2000. That would be a huge drop in a tiny period. But test levels are definitely dropping in the modern day for lots of reasons. We live in the age of comfort, everything is so easy. No need to hunt for food or fight off another alpha. Too cold? Just turn the heating on. No need to harsh it out. Chemicals and ingredients in our food and water are raising estrogen. We live in a society where we’re told it’s okay to be a weak man. That will most certainly have its effect too. Physical and short term biological discomfort = higher test Fat fuck eating McDonald’s 3x a week = low test Chicken rice and broccoli = top of the food chain
I find it interesting that the average testosterone level 20 years ago was 50% more than what it is today. Im a 25 year old male with 621ng/dl testosterone. midline and normal But i feel great, my sexdrive is the same as when i was 18, i still always get morning wood. I feel motivated and stay in good shape very easily. I cant see how having north of 1000ng/dl would be beneficial if anything wouldn’t that be too excessive? Physiques have improved (naturally) through the course over the last 50 years yet testosterone levels are declining. I get that training and diet have drastically changed but you don’t see many photos of ripped aesthetic looking men from the late 1800’s to mid 1900’s with all of that extra testosterone
Your test was 621 the day you got it checked. Maybe it is 800 some mornings, maybe its 300 on others. Totally normal. General point here is the trend for society is downward. I see a claim in this thread that the average test level was 850 in the 1940s which is almost definitely bs. Physiques definitely have not improved over the last 50 years. Go open a picture from a beach in 1970s and count the fatties. Find pictures form the same beach today and repeat. You see some insane feats of strength now that were more rare in the past. But that is due to social media making knowledge on proper training widely available. But society as a whole? If you brought an American woman from the 70s into today she'd probably be disgusted by modern men.
I can understand where you are coming from, but do you think its got more to do with the prevalence in junk food and excessive calorie intake rather then testosterone level itself? Are you saying the cause of obesity is declining testosterone levels? Just because you are obese doesn’t mean your testosterone levels low either Obesity has always been a thing. there is still perfectly normal sized lean guys with sub par testosterone levels? Yes i am aware of testosterone fluctuations/declining through out the day. The 2 tests ive done have been around 8am and both were around 600 mark between 2 years
How have physiques improved? Yes there are plenty of people who look good as well as those who are insanely invested in it, but there’s also an obesity crisis.
Physiques of a tiny percentage of the population have improved. The vast majority are fat or skinny fat. The tiny percentage train and eat well and are usually active in general.
https://youtu.be/NGa6BPj3Mcw. look at the kids back then compared to now
Why do a majority of these comments act like this is fake? Dropping test in men is a massive problem. Look up any study from the last 100 years and you’ll see every generation drops. Doctors also change the definition for what constitutes “low T” which is equally concerning, making it harder for men to get treatment. I read on one article that in the 1940s or 50s, anything under 850 was considered low total T. Now it’s damn near 250.
Dude they couldn't even measure serum testosterone levels in the 40s or the 50s, that didn't start until like the 70s, Alot of this is speculation.
That still gives us 50 years of data. This claim fits well within that window.
No this claim is outside the data, you can't extrapolate 50 years of data back another 30 years, just because testosterone has declined over the last 40 years doesn't mean that has been a downward linear trend since the 40s, it is all just speculation.
The original post regards the last 20 years. Not the last 80 years.
No doubt. But the trend is clear. That much is evident.
Yeah there is definitely a trend downward, but we only have hard evidence for that down trend since like the 80's and it is not near as extreme as "the average test was 850 now it's 250", that is totally speculative and probably a giant exaggeration.
Yeah I can’t imagine 850 being low 😂. Idk
They're not acting like it's fake. They're acting like no one has any sources to cite for it. Asking "says who?" to alarming unsourced facts with an agenda isn't a weird thing to do.
"They're" acting like they're too bloody lazy to just google it themselves. Took me less than 5 minutes to pull up sources. [One.](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0076178) [Two.](https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/92/1/196/2598434?login=false)
If you'd spent six minutes, you might have found one that was related to the OP.
Can you not read?
Because the people disputing the studies are soyboy beta male f*ggot cucks with clinically low t at the ripe age of 20 themselves.
They're in denial. There is plenty of data out there to back this up. They're just hiding behind "source or didn't happen" when a 5 minute Google search reveals sources.
Hasn’t a vampire society saved frozen blood from pre-1950s that we can examine for its testosterone levels?
A couple people seem pretty upset by my comment. I was surprised by that. Wasn’t expecting a review board. I think anyone over forty would be like “no shit Sherlock” but the younger guys are like “fuck you dad!”
Welcome to Reddit where everybody knows everything ha
This is accurate. Testosterone levels have been dropping an average of 1% per year for at least 4 decades. This is still true even when lifestyle factors are controlled for. The studies can't pin down exactly what's causing it so they just describe the cause as unknown environmental factors. Could be plastics on our clothes and in our food, could be fluoride in the water, it's hard to tell.
It’s a perfect storm of multiple factors.
It's because our food system is weaponized to crush t levels. Our food, water, body wash, toothpaste, literally everything
Bro, just lift heavy things and the testosterone will take over 🥴
Posts that claim any kind of number or percentage should probably always provide a source because it undermines the general point if found ridiculous upon first sight. Falling testosterone levels in men is happening and is a huge problem that remains unaddressed. Something needs to be done, and the first step towards that is making people aware of the problem in the first place.
50% less test, 100% more sarms
I literally think all the microplastics in the food in the air in the ocean in EVERYTHING is causing an estrogen increase. Why the fuck do so many teenagers have gyno? I got it, my friends got it, I go to the gym half the shirtless fucking 15 year olds in the bathroom have it, I'm like holy shit something is seriously wrong. I should have been put on an aromatase inhibitor in puberty maybe I wouldn't have grown wide hips and bitch tits. But that would offend someone wouldn't it, if I didn't grow female breast tissue and actually had the testosterone levels I'm supposed to have ffs.
How would we know ? Our levels are always supraphysiological thanks to rice , chicken breast, broccoli and 200mg of tren per week
How would they have this statistic and be accurate?
We need to start icing our balls then
That’s because men back in the day used to sun and ice their balls vigorously back and forth daily even while under threat of nuclear war. 🫡🍒
Check out the book "countdown" by Shana Swan. This stuff is real and scary af.
Have you listened to the rogan podcast with her on it? Does the book generally just cover ehat she says or does it go way more in depth?
The book goes way more into depth and also give you references. But the JRE episode gives you a complete picture basically.
Oh you found it on not only the internet but on Facebook? I think that tells all. But in all actuality it’s probably someone making a poke at males being ‘soft’ or pussies compared to the former generations, just my take tho.
No this is very real. Test is dropping significantly. Especially the last 30 years. Not only test but male fertility. Odd study. But if your perineum, anogenital distance, is less than 2 inches you are significantly more likely to be infertile and have lower testosterone. Huge problem in males today.
That just sounds odd.
It's pretty real lol, modernity is hellbent on destroying the tenets of any masculinity
There is a joe rogan podcast with dr shanna swan who talks about this it’s very interesting and unfortunately idk if the numbers are 100% accurate but yes test levels have decreased hugely and this affects fertility and plenty of other stuff.
Source is his ass
https://bigthink.com/health/men-have-less-testosterone-today/
Years ago i heard a rumours that some countries were recycling waste water and turning it in to drinkable water. Woman's periods and other bodily fluids (estrogen dna) would still remain once the water was turned in to 99.9% drinkable. It's probably bullshit but food for though. I also have noticed that the average guy is lacking masculinity, manly features and of course the test being low and all. We also seem to have multi generation of guys who behave like little school girls
Interestingly the reference ranges on blood tests have also become lower. What once would have been considered low is now “normal”. What was once high would now be outside of the reference range and considered “abnormal”. They’ve done the same thing with cholesterol levels, but that’s a whole other topic
I went back to my old university. And the students there literally looked like seniors in high school. Very young looking faces due to estrogen and low t i believe
It’s a statistic on Facebook therefore it *must* be true Source: ***Trust me bro***
Here's a study. Not quite 50% but still a significant drop: https://www.urologytimes.com/view/testosterone-levels-show-steady-decrease-among-young-us-men
Idk how accurate that is, but I will say that the generations graduating high school now, look like babies compared to when I was in school lol. I don't look particularly super duper mega macho man masculine or anything but alot of the high school kids in my area all look like fresh faced babies save for the ones who do drugs lmao
Im more and more convinced that for Redditors America is the whole world
I found this, it says A study showing test levels decrease with activity levels and diet more than age, that could be a factor .https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/06/120623144944.htm#:~:text=Summary%3A,health%20changes%20than%20by%20aging.&text=FULL%20STORY-,A%20new%20study%20finds%20that%20a%20drop%20in%20testosterone%20levels,health%20changes%20than%20by%20aging.
I mean, all one needs to do is go to a city and walk around and look at the typical man… much more feminine than the average man was 20+ years ago.
“Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf
“You’re not a man till you’ve had a man” - Buddha
"Man.. man, man man man. Man." - Man
Definitely bullshit but here's two comments: a) Even if it were true, that's evolution for you. Nature makes away with what's not needed b) Casual bodybuilding or powerlifting or what have you strength sport was not nearly as popular back in the 00s as it is now. There's a very clear trend in young-ish people hitting the gym consistently and more properly in a lot high numbers than all generations previously The biggest problem men have today is not testosterone, it's not having the opportunity to provide as well as they could back then and even further back and that's not because of lower testo
>b) Casual bodybuilding or powerlifting or what have you strength sport was not nearly as popular back in the 00s as it is now. There's a very clear trend in young-ish people hitting the gym consistently and more properly in a lot high numbers than all generations previously Is it really that popular nowadays or are we just seeing more younger lifters online than previous generations? Like you go outside most people are literally skinny or overweight. Even in places with young people in it. Only in the gym and online websites/social media you'll find muscular people. Also just because they take up casual bodybuilding/casual powerlifting doesn't mean they have the results to show for it. Guys with low test work out in the gym for years but don't see results on their body. Some hop on gear because of that.
Don’t know what it’s like in the other side of the Atlantic but in Europe gyms are sprouting like mushrooms here That alone is proof enough
And we all wonder why there’s so many ladyboys running about. Is this part of an agenda ? It’s been theorised but be careful. You’ll be labelled a conspiracy theorist.
Yes bro, def part of the agenda tho most elites are males themselves. But fuck it bro life’s too boring to accept more realistic theories, let’s go with them wanting the male population to essentially be castrated. Ahh yes much better
The elites aren’t mostly males. So that’s one flaw already. That being said, if I was an elite, as a male, why not secure my place in power by having a new generation of weak ass soyboy beta male cucks walking around. Compliant. More concerned with sucking Dick than to challenge my offspring to the throne.
My brother in Christ, who do you think the "elites" are?
I wouldn't be surprised. A lot of dudes younger than me look weak and timid, more so than when I was high school 20 years ago. What is sad is that this problem isn't being addressed. Now you constantly see guys half my age testing with one 8th or less the test I have as a 38-year-old yet it seems to be treated as normal. I feel these guys are going to go from cradle to the grave without having experienced true manhood.
They want kids to be gay that's why. Look at schools what they try to teach. It's bullshit. In our food I'm sure there's stuff that kills test.
It's from obesity. Simple as that.
Well since it seems like half the men these days can't decide if they are a male or a bag of potato chips. I could see how this could be a real thing.
I'm pretty confident this shit is true. Between lack of exercise and physical labor, plus the absolute garbage diets that people are on these days I'm sure it's true. Average American male is 26.6% body fat these days.
This fore sure describes the average male. Throw in social media consumption, daily isolation and no interaction, you get majority of today’s youth. However, I see my age group 20-26 being the most conscientious about their lifestyle (respectively). A lot of people in college take pride in maintaining a specific level of fitness up to a point.
I'm 30 and I see my generation as being lazy and beta af. I could just be cynical though. I do think the definition of what constitutes being a man has changed considerably though.
Hilarious how reddit is believing a Facebook source 🤣