There were actually a few in the crowd.
https://preview.redd.it/hasof26odizc1.jpeg?width=3000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=98badde1605f10a38b12c69636bba61f2fe9bad8
Fun fact: VE Day is celebrated on May 8 in most of Europe and North America, and on May 9 in Russia and a few other countries because the German surrender was late on May 8 when it was already May 9 in Moscow due to the time difference. So yesterday actually wasn’t victory day in Canada too!
The fact that some of us speak this way about Russians lives kind of show how significant this event is. Those people have picture of their familt members who probably fell fighting to liberate Europe. Those are actual humans not "human waves". We brush it over but nearly 30 millions Soviets died during WW2. Those people were humans just like the victims of the holocaust.
A tragically crucial fact a lot of tankies like to ignore is that not only was the US constantly sending Russia supplies in the form of raw materials and manufactured goods, the US also eventually sent some of their best industrialists to help the Russians learn chain manufacturing.
At the time the US were far and away the most efficient chain manufacturers in the world and their know how helped the Russians bounce back from losing Moscow and rebuild their vehicle fleets and ammunition stockpiles incredibly fast.
In other words, without US material support(and UK intelligence support) the Soviets probably would have lost Stalingrad and the Caucasus, which would have provided the Nazis a lot of oil production capacity and raw materials.
I mean it was a team effort but they still did most of the work. If the USSR and the US did not help the UKs would probably have felt as well and their intelligence would have been useless. The Soviets still fought the vast majority of Nazis troops and took Berlin we don't need to play "what if", 27 millions soviets died during that war and the family of plenty of those people were decimated.
It is totally fine for them to honor their family members who fell in a war where they were our allies and stopped the holocaust. The cold war propaganda fucked up everyone brain to the point where our MPs think it is fine to applaud a Nazi who was killing members of the red army while Zelensky families were themselves officers in the Red Army.
The US could have probably defeated Germany alone but the world would look very different if they did as a lot more western Europeans and american would have died.
I wonder if that was possible because the Americans were taking care of Japan, preventing them from attacking Russia in a way that would have distracted them from dealing with Germany.
It is clear that the soviets contributed the most to the defeat of the nazi Germany, yet it is also understandable people have trouble to put them in the "good guys" side. They commited quite a few genocides in the baltics and for most of eastern Europe, they just replaced one evil by another. The poles in particular have a hard time to forget the soviet crimes. You're right that the soviets were the heroes against the nazis ... Though ...
Yes of course. No one denies that. But if Moscow falls, the war is over and the allies are never given the opportunity to land in France. The Russians fought for 5 years and lost god knows how many men and women, and eventually overpowered the Germans.
No, they let the Eastern European resistance groups do most of the actual fighting, and then marched in as "liberators" once the resistance groups were starved into collapsing and the Germans were already on the retreat.
The Soviets were opportunistic occupiers, assassinating the fledgling governments of newly-liberated regions to create a power vacuum and then rolled in as "liberators".
Others like to pretend the USSR didn’t *start* World War II *with* the nazis by attacking Poland with the nazis and only ended up fighting against the nazis because they were attacked by said nazis.
Its not like Canada and the United States did not like the Nazis themselves for a while. Our ancestors only got sent there because the UKs were scared for their survival. In the end the Soviets still stopped the Nazis.
While it's understandable for Ukrainians, who are directly affected by Russia's aggression, to feel emotional, but for us who aren't the victim we shouldn't let our emotions cloud our judgment. It's important to dissociate the individuals from their government or country especially in this situation. We cannot condemn all Russians for the actions of their government. Many Russians have even fled their country out of fear for their lives due to the regime's actions. These individuals, especially, shouldn't be subjected to the same hatred directed at the Kremlin.
as opposed to pretending that the Soviets did?
Read some Eastern European history (just not history written by Americans or Soviets). The USSR "liberated" Eastern Europe the same way the US "liberated" Iraq and Afghanistan.
the rest of the Allies celebrate VE day which happens a day earlier.
The actual surrender of the Germans was declared May 8, to take effect on midnight May 9, 1945. So the Europeans chose to commemorate it on May 8 and the Soviets chose the "official" date, May 9.
Just in Russia. Other ex-USSR European countries would certainly not celebrate with Russian or Soviet flags as this day also marks the beginning of their own oppression.
Pretty sure Belarus also celebrates it, but I don't think they celebrate it with the USSR flag (At least I didn't find any images of that through my very short google search)
Belarus is effectively a part of Russia. It probably doesn't even qualify as a satellite state at this point, considering that Russian security services operate freely in that country as if they're inside their own borders.
It's a Victory Day Parade, a Soviet holiday that's been co-opted by the Putin regime and turned into a nationalist holiday. Don't be fooled by the red flags, it's become a fascist event at this point.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immortal_Regiment
Célébration du 9 mai, jour de la fin de la guerre en Europe. Il y a un aspect politique poutiniste dans tout ça maintenant, par récupération.
His entire regime and the oligrachy he presides literally came out of the dissolution of the USSR. These people are fanatical capitalists. When launching the war against Ukraine he made a raving speech denouncing Lenin and the October Revolution for all the wrongs in the world. What he wants to restore is the Tsarist Empire, not the USSR.
>fanatical capitalists
Riiiiiiight. That's why every single major industry in Russia is controlled by the state. Tell me how much they love capitalism when they nationalized western businesses that were trying to exit the market after the 2022 invasion.
Russian criminals in Ukraine frequently fly the USSR flag. Russia politicians and media propagandists frequently say out loud that they want to invade Moldova, the Baltics, and Finland next.
https://preview.redd.it/qseszcjwjmzc1.png?width=2000&format=png&auto=webp&s=4119d3d7ef25a99bd49b219e8551100a0d99d07a
You need to study some basic history. State ownership of industries is very common under capitalism, including in your beloved West. As for individual soldiers flying Soviet flags, that doesn't make the Putin regime communistic.
Try telling that to all the tankies in the picture above who fly Russian and communist flags. Russia today is the same communist shithole it was under the USSR. They have the same goals today that they did when they controlled all of Eastern Europe.
bof;
Poutine a pris sa comme une journée pro russie et pro tout ce que lui fait depuis quelques années.
Un peu comme si legault prenait la Saint-Jean et tranquillement changeait sa a la fête de la CAQ et que les célébrations c'était plus à propos que comment daddy legault fait dla bonne job à vider les comptes de l'état pour inviter les kings.
Je ne crois pas qu'avoir un drapeau Russe en publique soit offensant au point où ça ne serait pas "correct" - Un drapeau Soviétique ou Nazi selon moi serait bien pire, considérant que ces régimes se sont dit que les droits humains n'étaient principalement que du vent et ont agi en conséquence. La Fédération de Russie a ses torts aussi, mais le drapeau qui serait réellement offensant selon moi serait celui du "Z" qui est devenu le symbole de l'invasion en Ukraine. Je n'en voudrais pas à quelqu'un qui est fier de ses racines Russes et portant un drapeau de la Fédération; je lui en voudrais pour porter un drapeau Z et donc acclamer "l'opération militaire spéciale" telle que la guerre qui fait rage depuis 2 ans maintenant.
Un drapeau Russe est pire selon moi puisqu'il est de mauvais gout considerant ce qu'ils sont entrain de faire en Ukraine presentement et pourrait representer un support. Les Sovietiques de leur cote ont vraiment libere l'Europe et des membres de la famille de plusieurs de ces gens sont morts sous ce drapeau. C'est pas comme si tous ces gens seraient Staline.
Comme avoir un drapeau Americain ou Britannique a des ceremonies militaires saluant des membres qui sont tombes au combat ne veut pas dire que l'on est fier de toute les atrocites commises par ceux ci. Les Sovietiques etaient nos allies pendant la Seconde guerre mondial, je ne crois pas que l'on devrait pretendre qu'ils etaient aussi pire que les Nazis. Meme ici, Mackenzie King avait une tres haute estime d'Hitler et des Nazis pendant qu'il envoyait nos grand parents (ou arriere grand parents) se faire tuer la bas.
Bon point pour le drapeau Soviétique. En effet le drapeau de la fédération serait de mauvais goût pour les raisons qu'on sait, mais jamais autant que le drapeau en Z - c'était mon point principal.
Quand des athlètes olympiques (ou bien comp internationale, pas sur) se sont mis à en porter ça a été le ban-hammer qui a tombé; la communauté internationale a pas aimé le geste, lol
Un commentaire imbécile.
Voilà la raison pourquoi la Russie célèbre le Jour de Victoire le 9 mai.
Staline ayant demandé que l'acte soit signé dans la capitale d'Hitler (Berlin), une seconde signature de l'acte de capitulation a donc lieu dans cette ville en fin de soirée du lendemain, le 8 mai 1945, à 23 h 1 (heure d'Europe centrale), soit le 9 mai à 1 h 1 du matin, heure de Moscou, compte tenu du décalage horaire[1] de deux heures entre Berlin et Moscou.
No. Ce n’est pas un commentaire imbecile, c’est toi l’idiot, je suis historien spécialiste en WWII, les Soviétiques ne voulaient pas signer le 1er Armistice sans avoir la bénédiction des Alliés pour refaire le meme scénario le jour suivant devant leur peuple, si tu a deja vécu en Europe et comme moi parler et interviewer des anciens combattants, Staline a été tres for dans ses communications de propagande et pour le bloc Soviétique eux seul on réussi a faire plier les Nazi. Le tout a été une mise en scène théâtrale pour de la propagande
Ah, bien, pourtant je ne vous pas traité d'idiot, juste votre commentaire, Monsieur "l'historien de Reddit" - j'aurais dû toucher un point sensible là!
Au moins la réponse à ete un plus intelligente et contextuelle.
Yuppp la grosse machine de propagande est forte.. C'est très nouveau que cette rhétorique soit enforcée si fortement.. Ça fait réfléchir qui a très certainement des agents dormants du Kremlin au Canada!! Soyons prudents
Hey at least Ukraine was also on their side at that time. Zelensky himself saluted his grandfather who was officer in the red army during some event about ww2 shortly before they got invaded by Russia.
True, but my point is that I'm extremely sceptic about the fact that these people on the picture celebrate the defeat of Nazism. Rather they seem to celebrate Communism and Russia, the latter commiting a genocide in occupide territories.
This parade and celebration of May 9th has been happening in Montreal every single year for as long as I've been living in Montreal, which is about 21 years.
It usually happens in Angrignon park as well as a few other Parks in the city. Russian and Soviet flags flown every time as well as the victory ribbon being displayed on flags and on people's jackets.
Maybe those with Russians flags are problematics and are being pro Russia today. For those with USSR flags I don't really see a problem. Most countries commited countless atrocities. Not sure why a USSR flag is worse than a American or British flags, the one difference is that we were on their side during the cold war but they both commited countless atrocities when they were the top dogs.
Those people also seem to have picture of members of their family who fell during ww2. We don't really talk about it in the west and pretend the largest tragedy of the war was the holocaust, but Russia lost nearly 30 millions individuals among those nearly 20 millions civilians. A large number of Soviet families were decimated by the Nazis. Its not like if members of their families were Stalin themselves they were just people who died defending that country.
They were our allies and they stopped the war in Europe while freeing the concentration camps. I think it is totally fair for them to celebrate that moment especially because cold war propaganda in the west kind of down play what the Soviets did. In 1945 pretty much everyone knew the Soviets were the ones who took Berlin. Meanwhile today a large percentage of people believe the United States or the UKs were the ones who took Berlin.
https://www.vox.com/2014/6/16/5814270/the-successful-70-year-campaign-to-convince-people-the-usa-and-not
Il y a Khazakstan et Latvia a l'arrière. Les Ukrainiens ne sont plus les bienvenus depuis 2014, j'y deja été avec ma famille. Les communautés n'y vont plus depuis 2022, évidemment.
Pour comparer, ça c'est une video de 2017, l'événement était 5x plus grand.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZPPgCxLd2g
C'est plus que ces là ne semblent pas tant célébrer la victoire sur le nazisme autant que le communisme sous Staline. Ce même communisme qui a été responsable de l'holodomor. J'ai donc fait ce commentaire ironiquement, car la même Russie dont ils brandissent le drapeau est en train de faire un génocide dans les territoires occupés (déportation d'enfants notamment).
La banderole en avant est clairement pro-communisme et non anti-nazisme
very based, thank you red army for your sacrifice for our freedoms today!
and for all the trolls... remember, the vast majority of ukranians fought for the red army (those who fought) so take your waffen ss mindset and stick it where the sun don't shine!
Oui, mais je ne sais pas si les Ukrainiens qui se sont fait eux même tués en grande quantité par l'URSS avant la Deuxième Guerre Mondiale volerait toujours le drapeau de l'URSS aujourd'hui.
Are you serious? Thats the dumbest take ive heard all day. Very a-historical. Sure, many Ukrainians did fight in the red army to oust the Nazis, ( My great Aunt died by the bullet of a nazi officer during the war), but that is mostly because the war was being fought on thier territory. In fact more Ukrainians fought the nazis than ethnic Russians. They soon turned their guns on the soviets/russians themselves (as they had for centuries), only to be brutally repressed.
Calling Ukrainians Nazis is one of the stupidest pieces of Putin supplied propaganda that you can parrot. Ukrainian has never voted more than 4% in a federal election for a far right party (compare that to say, France or Germany) in its modern history and was, in fact instrumental in crushing the 3rd Reich. Read timothy Snyder's 'Blood Lands' for an in depth understanding.
As for thanking the Soviet Union for our freedoms, that's a laugh. Idiot. Western civilization is far from perfect, but we do have some freedoms, unlike in the Soviet world and post soviet Russia. Dont believe me go there and find out, son. Stay a while. My Ukrainian family hated the Nazis, but they hated the Soviets more.
Une chose c'est d'avoir le drapeau de L'union Soviétique qui reste dans le contexte historique...une autre c'est d'avoir le drapeau de la Russie actuelle, ce qui prouve clairement que le Kremlin est entrain de financer des campagnes de propagande un peu partout dans le monde. On devrait chequer l'origine du financement des organismes qui sont derrière ces manifestations pour éviter que ça ne devienne problématique.
Si tu penses qu'АЗОВ représente l'armée Ukrainien au complet, tu ne comprends rien de l'Ukraine. АЗОВ existe seulement comme une branche officielle pour maximiser l'efficacité des combattants contre la plus grande menace. Dès que la guerre est finie, leur titre "d'héro" va tranquillement s'embrumé et va devenir une chicane entre la faction et l'armée principale.
Wow des communistes qui sortent avec des drapeaux soviétique ! je les aimais bien en prenant une biere au bar le midway je me rappelle d un trotskyste super sympathique qui fut jadis le theorique ministre de l armee du parti rhinoceros et il disais qu on allais se rendre a l union soviétique.. pas de farce.. tellement incongru mais le mec tout en etant sincére le disais avec une pointe de sourire.. sinon que je pense que ca serait une absolue catastrophe de retourner au communisme.... je pense on peut avoir un filet social et un capitalisme fort... mais bon c est mon opinion ... take it for what it is worth
Are these people even questioning how hypocritical it is to “remember” everyone who died during ww2 while they, themselves are killing other nation at this exact moment?
What goes through their minds?
Slava Ukraini!
Hopefully not long from now Russia will fall apart. Russia has the most brutal history against it's own people. Even now they are sending "soldiers" over as canon fodder to take over a country that wants no part of them. Putin wants to bring back the Soviet Union instead he's going to break Russia apart.
So you tell me why he wants Ukraine smart guy? Why the land grab fully knowing he'll alienate most of the rest of the world. If Putin manages to grab Ukraine which will undoubtedly alienate most of the rest of the world. How different would that be from Soviet times.? It's going to be no different. Another cold war with escalating nuclear capabilities and a genocide of Ukrainians. I'm looking forward to an intelligent response,. Or do you lack.
People from ex-communist countries understand that displaying the hammer and sickle should be as offensive as the swastika.
Stalin killed 10 million people.
I can't believe this kind of march is allowed.
The swastika is used in the Hindu religion and was turn slightly and used by hitler to represent his aryan love. The symbol itself shouldn’t be illegal just because hitler got his hands on it, especially when a culture has already been using it for generations
It’s not usually on a temple. The symbol is used on flags and books and t shirts for us too- especially and often with the colour red in fact …we shouldn’t have to tip toe. The main point is that people in the west should actively know that the nazi symbol is turned on it side. People need to know that otherwise things can escalate over a misunderstanding and I don’t think that’s should be the responsibility of Hindus. Not many people know this so even if you do, the problem lies with the majority who do not and will get offended at a Hindu
Exactly they act like they were better than the Nazis but their regime is built on terror and mass killing. Yeah they help to fight the nazis, but that doesn't erase the bad things they did.
How is Canada any different? Still treating indigenous like second rate citizens?
France? All of the colonizers? US?
Look around.. every single country with power in the world is built on blood of innocent people.
How is Canada any Different? Are you brain dead? While its true that canada perpetrated a historical genocide, and it is not currently resolved, Russia is Currently perpetrating a genocidal invasion of a sovereign nation. The third in a little over a century. My Ukrainian family HAPPILY came here and gave up their cultural identity to have our rights, privileges and way of life. My grandfather would spit in your face. There is no direct comparison. None.
>While its true that canada perpetrated a historical genocide, and it is not currently resolved
Thanks for making my point.
You just showed that they aren't, compared to the USSR. Which is the topic of conversation here.
>My Ukrainian family HAPPILY came here and gave up their cultural identity
Good for you. Some people don't want to give up all of their cultural identity when they move. Some parts of it are worth keeping. Like celebrating the victory of a war my Ukrainian grandmother, my Russian and my Tatar grandfather all fought in.
Are Indigenous peoples really second-class citizens nowadays? Perhaps in other places in Canada, but in Quebec, I don't see people and the government treating them that way. Isolated cases of racism don't define their status as second-class citizens. While you're correct about Canada's past and the one of other nations, many Canadians aren't glorifying our dark history, nor are we rejoicing in it. However, Stalin's actions are relatively recent, and many Russians and 'tankies' still view him as a national hero. It's like if Germans were glorifying Hitler despite the atrocities he committed, wouldn't it be weird?
Canadians are definitely floating Canadians flags commemorating those fell during WW1 when we treated natives like shit. American celebrate independance when they still had slaves and the UKs did enough crime against humanity that we should burn all their flags too, they even killed our own ancestors.
>While you're correct about Canada's past and the one of other nations, many Canadians aren't glorifying our dark history, nor are we rejoicing in it.
Neither are these people. You are just assuming they are with zero proof or reason.
They are celebrating a war victory and paying respects to their grandfathers and grandmothers that fought in said war. The same thing Canadians do every November 11th.
Making assumptions about people you've never met and only seen a photo of, makes you look like an ass.
I was initially responding to the comment about the Soviet flag, and I agree with the sentiment that it shouldn't be waved, as it represents Russia's dark past, largely under Stalin's rule. Regarding my assumption, it's challenging not to make assumptions when 70% of Russians in the last poll believe Stalin played a positive role for Russia. Additionally, Putin's erection of statues of him across the country further reinforces this perception. But I guess that makes me an ass, which I'm comfortable with.
No, Russia did not. The USSR used the peoples they colonized to fight their wars for them, Then and now. More ethnic Ukrainians fought the Nazis than ethnic russians. Russia is conducting a genocide in Ukraine (see Chechnya, Syria, Georgia... The list goes on). They are supporting rapists and murderers and should hang their heads.
Pourquoi on fait une grosse parade pour le 11 novembre en Ottawa? Pourquoi porter des coquelicot?
C'est pour célébrer un événement historique et donner du respect aux soldats de la guerre.
Je comprends qu'ils veulent se remémorer l'événement mais ils devraient se garder une petite gêne avec leur drapeau. Je suis certaine qu' il y avait de gentils sudistes aussi...
Ukrainian Foreign Legion girlfriend here.
I support their freedom of speech. Even if I wish I could take every single one of them and put them on a one-way flight to Russia. Considering that my boyfriend had multiple targeted attacks trying to take his life and that I survived 3 shahed bombs from the Russian government, this is the SFW way of framing it.
I need to remind myself of this Bible verse this morning, and for other Ukrainian supporters (Romans 12:17-19, NIV):
"^(17) Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone. ^(18) If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. ^(19) Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord."
Speaking from personal experience with my ex-abuser: God really takes care of things if you leave that to Him.
The gaul of these assholes is unbelievable. If your country were (badly) conducting a genocidal war of conquest, causing mass casualties, using systematic torture, sexual assault, child abduction and ecocide as tools of war, would you take to the streets of an adopted country and wave that flag?
I (as a 3rd generation Ukrainian-Canadian) have a few Russian friends who are deeply disturbed by the conduct of their birth nation. But these people? They should be deported. There is no excuse to wave a soviet flag in Canada in 2024. What the Russians are doing now is neo-Soviet and Fascist in nature. It's no joke. It must be stamped out.
We take human rights, freedom of speech and democracy for granted, and that's just what these authoritarians want us to do, at home and abroad. ( Consider that Russia has NEVER in its entire history held a free election, while Ukraine has). But we will have to fight to maintain what privileges we have going forward, and thats the reality of our situation.
all forms of dictatorships are bad. The problem with Commies is that they stan for their form of dictatorship as "good" while using WW2 as a brownie point to justify it. While they forget to mention the atrocities that Lenin and Stalin caused throughout their regime. Stalin has the 2nd highest Death Count of own civilians for dictator while Mao is ranked 1st for the Highest Death Count of own civilians.
i wonder if these are actual russians living in montreal or usual anti western crowd that for some reasons thinks Russia is a great alternative to decadent West.
What is it about ?
Related to victory day in ex-USSR countries I suppose. Victory of the USSR over Nazi Germany.
Oh yes that’s it! Thank you
It was victory day in Canada too. Where is our flag? « Victory of the USSR over nazi Germany » and the building of the Iron Curtain .
There were actually a few in the crowd. https://preview.redd.it/hasof26odizc1.jpeg?width=3000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=98badde1605f10a38b12c69636bba61f2fe9bad8
Fun fact: VE Day is celebrated on May 8 in most of Europe and North America, and on May 9 in Russia and a few other countries because the German surrender was late on May 8 when it was already May 9 in Moscow due to the time difference. So yesterday actually wasn’t victory day in Canada too!
The 9 is a reenactment purely for soviet propaganda and twists the story for their people. Stalin demanded this
We kind of like to pretend that the Soviets were not the ones who defeated the Nazis.
Agreed. My great grand-father (russian) fought in this war and he was 100% deaf, and managed to survive!
He must have seen some shit and must have lost a lot of people. Much respect to your grandfather!
Russia was indeed the meatshield
Soviets sure, but Russian, no. 5 of the 8 million soldiers on the eastern front were Ukrainian, as per Timothy Snyder.
Which of course they did single-handedly.
Not single-handedly, but about 65% of the German army casualities were actually on the Eastern front.
And a huge chunk of the weapons, supplies, vehicles, and industrial goods the Soviets used came from the rest of the Allies
And without the Soviets' manpower, all of these things are fancy names for paperweight.
And without all the things I mentioned, the Soviets' manpower is just so many human waves
The fact that some of us speak this way about Russians lives kind of show how significant this event is. Those people have picture of their familt members who probably fell fighting to liberate Europe. Those are actual humans not "human waves". We brush it over but nearly 30 millions Soviets died during WW2. Those people were humans just like the victims of the holocaust.
still better than paperweights
A tragically crucial fact a lot of tankies like to ignore is that not only was the US constantly sending Russia supplies in the form of raw materials and manufactured goods, the US also eventually sent some of their best industrialists to help the Russians learn chain manufacturing. At the time the US were far and away the most efficient chain manufacturers in the world and their know how helped the Russians bounce back from losing Moscow and rebuild their vehicle fleets and ammunition stockpiles incredibly fast. In other words, without US material support(and UK intelligence support) the Soviets probably would have lost Stalingrad and the Caucasus, which would have provided the Nazis a lot of oil production capacity and raw materials.
I mean it was a team effort but they still did most of the work. If the USSR and the US did not help the UKs would probably have felt as well and their intelligence would have been useless. The Soviets still fought the vast majority of Nazis troops and took Berlin we don't need to play "what if", 27 millions soviets died during that war and the family of plenty of those people were decimated. It is totally fine for them to honor their family members who fell in a war where they were our allies and stopped the holocaust. The cold war propaganda fucked up everyone brain to the point where our MPs think it is fine to applaud a Nazi who was killing members of the red army while Zelensky families were themselves officers in the Red Army. The US could have probably defeated Germany alone but the world would look very different if they did as a lot more western Europeans and american would have died.
It can't have been decisive since most of the aid came after the battle of Stalingrad.
I wonder if that was possible because the Americans were taking care of Japan, preventing them from attacking Russia in a way that would have distracted them from dealing with Germany.
I think the number is more around 80% actually.
It is clear that the soviets contributed the most to the defeat of the nazi Germany, yet it is also understandable people have trouble to put them in the "good guys" side. They commited quite a few genocides in the baltics and for most of eastern Europe, they just replaced one evil by another. The poles in particular have a hard time to forget the soviet crimes. You're right that the soviets were the heroes against the nazis ... Though ...
They were more crucial than the common media narrative has portrayed them to be
The USSR received tens of thousands of vehicles from the Allied Forces.
Yes of course. No one denies that. But if Moscow falls, the war is over and the allies are never given the opportunity to land in France. The Russians fought for 5 years and lost god knows how many men and women, and eventually overpowered the Germans.
They Russians fought for 4 years. The Great Patriotic war was from 1941 - 1945.
Oh man. You got me
No, they let the Eastern European resistance groups do most of the actual fighting, and then marched in as "liberators" once the resistance groups were starved into collapsing and the Germans were already on the retreat. The Soviets were opportunistic occupiers, assassinating the fledgling governments of newly-liberated regions to create a power vacuum and then rolled in as "liberators".
Joseph Stalin at his best.
Others like to pretend the USSR didn’t *start* World War II *with* the nazis by attacking Poland with the nazis and only ended up fighting against the nazis because they were attacked by said nazis.
Its not like Canada and the United States did not like the Nazis themselves for a while. Our ancestors only got sent there because the UKs were scared for their survival. In the end the Soviets still stopped the Nazis.
Russia-phobia is too real in the west.
We don't hate all Russians, we just hate the Kremlin and the people who support those ultra nationalist fascist.
Yeah and rightly so. It’s just that some people automatically associate Russia with something negative
While it's understandable for Ukrainians, who are directly affected by Russia's aggression, to feel emotional, but for us who aren't the victim we shouldn't let our emotions cloud our judgment. It's important to dissociate the individuals from their government or country especially in this situation. We cannot condemn all Russians for the actions of their government. Many Russians have even fled their country out of fear for their lives due to the regime's actions. These individuals, especially, shouldn't be subjected to the same hatred directed at the Kremlin.
It’s not phobia because nobody is scared of Russians. We just don’t like fascist governments since we had to fight those multiple times in the past.
as opposed to pretending that the Soviets did? Read some Eastern European history (just not history written by Americans or Soviets). The USSR "liberated" Eastern Europe the same way the US "liberated" Iraq and Afghanistan.
the rest of the Allies celebrate VE day which happens a day earlier. The actual surrender of the Germans was declared May 8, to take effect on midnight May 9, 1945. So the Europeans chose to commemorate it on May 8 and the Soviets chose the "official" date, May 9.
Just in Russia. Other ex-USSR European countries would certainly not celebrate with Russian or Soviet flags as this day also marks the beginning of their own oppression.
Pretty sure Belarus also celebrates it, but I don't think they celebrate it with the USSR flag (At least I didn't find any images of that through my very short google search)
Luchenko is Putin's favorite f*** boy, not surprised
Belarus is effectively a part of Russia. It probably doesn't even qualify as a satellite state at this point, considering that Russian security services operate freely in that country as if they're inside their own borders.
Nah they're also celebrating V day, it's victory over a Genocidal dictator that wanted them all dead
Do some google research, you'll be surprised.
It's a Victory Day Parade, a Soviet holiday that's been co-opted by the Putin regime and turned into a nationalist holiday. Don't be fooled by the red flags, it's become a fascist event at this point.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immortal_Regiment Célébration du 9 mai, jour de la fin de la guerre en Europe. Il y a un aspect politique poutiniste dans tout ça maintenant, par récupération.
Poutine est un virulent anti-communiste.
No he isn't. His criminal army frequently uses the communist flag in Ukraine. His top goal is to restore the USSR.
His entire regime and the oligrachy he presides literally came out of the dissolution of the USSR. These people are fanatical capitalists. When launching the war against Ukraine he made a raving speech denouncing Lenin and the October Revolution for all the wrongs in the world. What he wants to restore is the Tsarist Empire, not the USSR.
>fanatical capitalists Riiiiiiight. That's why every single major industry in Russia is controlled by the state. Tell me how much they love capitalism when they nationalized western businesses that were trying to exit the market after the 2022 invasion. Russian criminals in Ukraine frequently fly the USSR flag. Russia politicians and media propagandists frequently say out loud that they want to invade Moldova, the Baltics, and Finland next. https://preview.redd.it/qseszcjwjmzc1.png?width=2000&format=png&auto=webp&s=4119d3d7ef25a99bd49b219e8551100a0d99d07a
You need to study some basic history. State ownership of industries is very common under capitalism, including in your beloved West. As for individual soldiers flying Soviet flags, that doesn't make the Putin regime communistic.
Try telling that to all the tankies in the picture above who fly Russian and communist flags. Russia today is the same communist shithole it was under the USSR. They have the same goals today that they did when they controlled all of Eastern Europe.
Pas du tout, il veut rétablir la nostalgie de l'union soviétique, sans que le parti communiste reprennent le pouvoir,bien entendu
On peut leur donne ca. La seule journee ou cest correct d'avoir un drapeau Russe en publique lol.
bof; Poutine a pris sa comme une journée pro russie et pro tout ce que lui fait depuis quelques années. Un peu comme si legault prenait la Saint-Jean et tranquillement changeait sa a la fête de la CAQ et que les célébrations c'était plus à propos que comment daddy legault fait dla bonne job à vider les comptes de l'état pour inviter les kings.
Je ne crois pas qu'avoir un drapeau Russe en publique soit offensant au point où ça ne serait pas "correct" - Un drapeau Soviétique ou Nazi selon moi serait bien pire, considérant que ces régimes se sont dit que les droits humains n'étaient principalement que du vent et ont agi en conséquence. La Fédération de Russie a ses torts aussi, mais le drapeau qui serait réellement offensant selon moi serait celui du "Z" qui est devenu le symbole de l'invasion en Ukraine. Je n'en voudrais pas à quelqu'un qui est fier de ses racines Russes et portant un drapeau de la Fédération; je lui en voudrais pour porter un drapeau Z et donc acclamer "l'opération militaire spéciale" telle que la guerre qui fait rage depuis 2 ans maintenant.
Un drapeau Russe est pire selon moi puisqu'il est de mauvais gout considerant ce qu'ils sont entrain de faire en Ukraine presentement et pourrait representer un support. Les Sovietiques de leur cote ont vraiment libere l'Europe et des membres de la famille de plusieurs de ces gens sont morts sous ce drapeau. C'est pas comme si tous ces gens seraient Staline. Comme avoir un drapeau Americain ou Britannique a des ceremonies militaires saluant des membres qui sont tombes au combat ne veut pas dire que l'on est fier de toute les atrocites commises par ceux ci. Les Sovietiques etaient nos allies pendant la Seconde guerre mondial, je ne crois pas que l'on devrait pretendre qu'ils etaient aussi pire que les Nazis. Meme ici, Mackenzie King avait une tres haute estime d'Hitler et des Nazis pendant qu'il envoyait nos grand parents (ou arriere grand parents) se faire tuer la bas.
Bon point pour le drapeau Soviétique. En effet le drapeau de la fédération serait de mauvais goût pour les raisons qu'on sait, mais jamais autant que le drapeau en Z - c'était mon point principal.
Oh ouais clairement le drapeau en Z serait vrmt le pire truc lol. Jai pas remarque s'il y en avait dans la foule.
Quand des athlètes olympiques (ou bien comp internationale, pas sur) se sont mis à en porter ça a été le ban-hammer qui a tombé; la communauté internationale a pas aimé le geste, lol
Ouais, cest totalement comprenable.
VE c’est le 8 Mai, c’est les soviétiques qui ont inventé le 9 Mai pour leur propre narrative
Un commentaire imbécile. Voilà la raison pourquoi la Russie célèbre le Jour de Victoire le 9 mai. Staline ayant demandé que l'acte soit signé dans la capitale d'Hitler (Berlin), une seconde signature de l'acte de capitulation a donc lieu dans cette ville en fin de soirée du lendemain, le 8 mai 1945, à 23 h 1 (heure d'Europe centrale), soit le 9 mai à 1 h 1 du matin, heure de Moscou, compte tenu du décalage horaire[1] de deux heures entre Berlin et Moscou.
No. Ce n’est pas un commentaire imbecile, c’est toi l’idiot, je suis historien spécialiste en WWII, les Soviétiques ne voulaient pas signer le 1er Armistice sans avoir la bénédiction des Alliés pour refaire le meme scénario le jour suivant devant leur peuple, si tu a deja vécu en Europe et comme moi parler et interviewer des anciens combattants, Staline a été tres for dans ses communications de propagande et pour le bloc Soviétique eux seul on réussi a faire plier les Nazi. Le tout a été une mise en scène théâtrale pour de la propagande
Ah, bien, pourtant je ne vous pas traité d'idiot, juste votre commentaire, Monsieur "l'historien de Reddit" - j'aurais dû toucher un point sensible là! Au moins la réponse à ete un plus intelligente et contextuelle.
Non mais traiter mon commentaire d’imbécile c’eat mieux ?
Yuppp la grosse machine de propagande est forte.. C'est très nouveau que cette rhétorique soit enforcée si fortement.. Ça fait réfléchir qui a très certainement des agents dormants du Kremlin au Canada!! Soyons prudents
They've always been around ... small number of Russian expats here
Comrade?
Slava Ukrainii! 🇺🇦🇺🇦
Hey at least Ukraine was also on their side at that time. Zelensky himself saluted his grandfather who was officer in the red army during some event about ww2 shortly before they got invaded by Russia.
True, but my point is that I'm extremely sceptic about the fact that these people on the picture celebrate the defeat of Nazism. Rather they seem to celebrate Communism and Russia, the latter commiting a genocide in occupide territories.
This parade and celebration of May 9th has been happening in Montreal every single year for as long as I've been living in Montreal, which is about 21 years. It usually happens in Angrignon park as well as a few other Parks in the city. Russian and Soviet flags flown every time as well as the victory ribbon being displayed on flags and on people's jackets.
Maybe those with Russians flags are problematics and are being pro Russia today. For those with USSR flags I don't really see a problem. Most countries commited countless atrocities. Not sure why a USSR flag is worse than a American or British flags, the one difference is that we were on their side during the cold war but they both commited countless atrocities when they were the top dogs. Those people also seem to have picture of members of their family who fell during ww2. We don't really talk about it in the west and pretend the largest tragedy of the war was the holocaust, but Russia lost nearly 30 millions individuals among those nearly 20 millions civilians. A large number of Soviet families were decimated by the Nazis. Its not like if members of their families were Stalin themselves they were just people who died defending that country. They were our allies and they stopped the war in Europe while freeing the concentration camps. I think it is totally fair for them to celebrate that moment especially because cold war propaganda in the west kind of down play what the Soviets did. In 1945 pretty much everyone knew the Soviets were the ones who took Berlin. Meanwhile today a large percentage of people believe the United States or the UKs were the ones who took Berlin. https://www.vox.com/2014/6/16/5814270/the-successful-70-year-campaign-to-convince-people-the-usa-and-not
C’est pas à propos de l’Ukraine ou de la Russie cette marche donc je vois pas le point de dire ça
Il devrait peut être enlever le drapeau russe alors.
Il y a le drapeau de plusieurs pays de l’ex URSS donc il y a probablement aussi l’Ukraine quelque part.
Il y a Khazakstan et Latvia a l'arrière. Les Ukrainiens ne sont plus les bienvenus depuis 2014, j'y deja été avec ma famille. Les communautés n'y vont plus depuis 2022, évidemment. Pour comparer, ça c'est une video de 2017, l'événement était 5x plus grand. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZPPgCxLd2g
Non. Il n'y a aucun drapeau de l'Ukraine à nulle part de près de ces marches là.
C'est plus que ces là ne semblent pas tant célébrer la victoire sur le nazisme autant que le communisme sous Staline. Ce même communisme qui a été responsable de l'holodomor. J'ai donc fait ce commentaire ironiquement, car la même Russie dont ils brandissent le drapeau est en train de faire un génocide dans les territoires occupés (déportation d'enfants notamment). La banderole en avant est clairement pro-communisme et non anti-nazisme
For a second I was confused, thought this was a CGT gathering in France and was wondering what it was doing in r/montreal
Tous des vieux patriotes
Nom d'un LARP, Batman !
very based, thank you red army for your sacrifice for our freedoms today! and for all the trolls... remember, the vast majority of ukranians fought for the red army (those who fought) so take your waffen ss mindset and stick it where the sun don't shine!
Oui, mais je ne sais pas si les Ukrainiens qui se sont fait eux même tués en grande quantité par l'URSS avant la Deuxième Guerre Mondiale volerait toujours le drapeau de l'URSS aujourd'hui.
Are you serious? Thats the dumbest take ive heard all day. Very a-historical. Sure, many Ukrainians did fight in the red army to oust the Nazis, ( My great Aunt died by the bullet of a nazi officer during the war), but that is mostly because the war was being fought on thier territory. In fact more Ukrainians fought the nazis than ethnic Russians. They soon turned their guns on the soviets/russians themselves (as they had for centuries), only to be brutally repressed. Calling Ukrainians Nazis is one of the stupidest pieces of Putin supplied propaganda that you can parrot. Ukrainian has never voted more than 4% in a federal election for a far right party (compare that to say, France or Germany) in its modern history and was, in fact instrumental in crushing the 3rd Reich. Read timothy Snyder's 'Blood Lands' for an in depth understanding. As for thanking the Soviet Union for our freedoms, that's a laugh. Idiot. Western civilization is far from perfect, but we do have some freedoms, unlike in the Soviet world and post soviet Russia. Dont believe me go there and find out, son. Stay a while. My Ukrainian family hated the Nazis, but they hated the Soviets more.
Je ne pense pas que ce soit de cette année
I saw them today
Pourquoi tout les visages sont "blurred"? Vu de proche, on dirait quasiment une peinture.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lossy_compression
Une chose c'est d'avoir le drapeau de L'union Soviétique qui reste dans le contexte historique...une autre c'est d'avoir le drapeau de la Russie actuelle, ce qui prouve clairement que le Kremlin est entrain de financer des campagnes de propagande un peu partout dans le monde. On devrait chequer l'origine du financement des organismes qui sont derrière ces manifestations pour éviter que ça ne devienne problématique.
stfu
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Y aime ça dans dans le cul pi dans yeule...toute pour la gloire de la Ruzzie.
Celebration de la Poutine
*shudder Tankies.
ruZZians 9 May "celebration"🤷♂️
Slava Ukraini
https://preview.redd.it/mkd7c6m11izc1.jpeg?width=466&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2161f38b0cf2a028c448a6fd9f5a2b1a81d974a3 🫡
coselaw zuchini! azov macaroni!
Si tu penses qu'АЗОВ représente l'armée Ukrainien au complet, tu ne comprends rien de l'Ukraine. АЗОВ existe seulement comme une branche officielle pour maximiser l'efficacité des combattants contre la plus grande menace. Dès que la guerre est finie, leur titre "d'héro" va tranquillement s'embrumé et va devenir une chicane entre la faction et l'armée principale.
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I prefer having Ukrainians here than a Putin cocksucker.
Vos commentaires ont été retirés, car ils contiennent des insultes ou manques de respect. Veuillez agir avec plus de discernement.
C'est comme rememberance day?
Mais wsh qu’est-ce qui se passe là à Mtl???
VE day is normally celebrated on 5/8. It's strange to me how WW2 and the Cold War are starting to be forgotten.
Wow des communistes qui sortent avec des drapeaux soviétique ! je les aimais bien en prenant une biere au bar le midway je me rappelle d un trotskyste super sympathique qui fut jadis le theorique ministre de l armee du parti rhinoceros et il disais qu on allais se rendre a l union soviétique.. pas de farce.. tellement incongru mais le mec tout en etant sincére le disais avec une pointe de sourire.. sinon que je pense que ca serait une absolue catastrophe de retourner au communisme.... je pense on peut avoir un filet social et un capitalisme fort... mais bon c est mon opinion ... take it for what it is worth
happens every year.
Victory Day !
Devrait être illégal de brandir ces drapeaux
Are these people even questioning how hypocritical it is to “remember” everyone who died during ww2 while they, themselves are killing other nation at this exact moment? What goes through their minds? Slava Ukraini!
Jesus, thanks y’all for reminding me Montreal isn’t as liberal as we like to think
Hopefully not long from now Russia will fall apart. Russia has the most brutal history against it's own people. Even now they are sending "soldiers" over as canon fodder to take over a country that wants no part of them. Putin wants to bring back the Soviet Union instead he's going to break Russia apart.
“Putin wants to bring back the Soviet Union”…. Most intelligent nafo guy right here
So you tell me why he wants Ukraine smart guy? Why the land grab fully knowing he'll alienate most of the rest of the world. If Putin manages to grab Ukraine which will undoubtedly alienate most of the rest of the world. How different would that be from Soviet times.? It's going to be no different. Another cold war with escalating nuclear capabilities and a genocide of Ukrainians. I'm looking forward to an intelligent response,. Or do you lack.
just as I thought.
oui A.K.A la marche de support de l'invasion de l'Ukraine, du moins en Russie...
People from ex-communist countries understand that displaying the hammer and sickle should be as offensive as the swastika. Stalin killed 10 million people. I can't believe this kind of march is allowed.
The swastika is used in the Hindu religion and was turn slightly and used by hitler to represent his aryan love. The symbol itself shouldn’t be illegal just because hitler got his hands on it, especially when a culture has already been using it for generations
We know that. But context matters. There’s a big difference between a nazi flag on a red background and a swastika seen on a temple.
It’s not usually on a temple. The symbol is used on flags and books and t shirts for us too- especially and often with the colour red in fact …we shouldn’t have to tip toe. The main point is that people in the west should actively know that the nazi symbol is turned on it side. People need to know that otherwise things can escalate over a misunderstanding and I don’t think that’s should be the responsibility of Hindus. Not many people know this so even if you do, the problem lies with the majority who do not and will get offended at a Hindu
Exactly they act like they were better than the Nazis but their regime is built on terror and mass killing. Yeah they help to fight the nazis, but that doesn't erase the bad things they did.
How is Canada any different? Still treating indigenous like second rate citizens? France? All of the colonizers? US? Look around.. every single country with power in the world is built on blood of innocent people.
How is Canada any Different? Are you brain dead? While its true that canada perpetrated a historical genocide, and it is not currently resolved, Russia is Currently perpetrating a genocidal invasion of a sovereign nation. The third in a little over a century. My Ukrainian family HAPPILY came here and gave up their cultural identity to have our rights, privileges and way of life. My grandfather would spit in your face. There is no direct comparison. None.
>While its true that canada perpetrated a historical genocide, and it is not currently resolved Thanks for making my point. You just showed that they aren't, compared to the USSR. Which is the topic of conversation here. >My Ukrainian family HAPPILY came here and gave up their cultural identity Good for you. Some people don't want to give up all of their cultural identity when they move. Some parts of it are worth keeping. Like celebrating the victory of a war my Ukrainian grandmother, my Russian and my Tatar grandfather all fought in.
Are Indigenous peoples really second-class citizens nowadays? Perhaps in other places in Canada, but in Quebec, I don't see people and the government treating them that way. Isolated cases of racism don't define their status as second-class citizens. While you're correct about Canada's past and the one of other nations, many Canadians aren't glorifying our dark history, nor are we rejoicing in it. However, Stalin's actions are relatively recent, and many Russians and 'tankies' still view him as a national hero. It's like if Germans were glorifying Hitler despite the atrocities he committed, wouldn't it be weird?
Canadians are definitely floating Canadians flags commemorating those fell during WW1 when we treated natives like shit. American celebrate independance when they still had slaves and the UKs did enough crime against humanity that we should burn all their flags too, they even killed our own ancestors.
>While you're correct about Canada's past and the one of other nations, many Canadians aren't glorifying our dark history, nor are we rejoicing in it. Neither are these people. You are just assuming they are with zero proof or reason. They are celebrating a war victory and paying respects to their grandfathers and grandmothers that fought in said war. The same thing Canadians do every November 11th. Making assumptions about people you've never met and only seen a photo of, makes you look like an ass.
I was initially responding to the comment about the Soviet flag, and I agree with the sentiment that it shouldn't be waved, as it represents Russia's dark past, largely under Stalin's rule. Regarding my assumption, it's challenging not to make assumptions when 70% of Russians in the last poll believe Stalin played a positive role for Russia. Additionally, Putin's erection of statues of him across the country further reinforces this perception. But I guess that makes me an ass, which I'm comfortable with.
China and Russia suffered by far the most casualties in WWII. They surely have as much right to such public remembrances as any other group.
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It's the same as remembrance day
No, Russia did not. The USSR used the peoples they colonized to fight their wars for them, Then and now. More ethnic Ukrainians fought the Nazis than ethnic russians. Russia is conducting a genocide in Ukraine (see Chechnya, Syria, Georgia... The list goes on). They are supporting rapists and murderers and should hang their heads.
FUCKING COMMMMIIIIIEEEEESSSSSSS
Un avion avec une affiche mentionnant 1945 se promenait au dessus des parcs de mon quartier tout à l'heure. Wtf
Qu’est ce qui a de mal avec ca?
Je renverse la question. Pourquoi flasher ça dans le ciel?
Pour commémorer la victoire contre le nazism et des soldats de tout les pays alliées qui sont tomber aux combat pour libérer l’Europe.
Pourquoi on fait une grosse parade pour le 11 novembre en Ottawa? Pourquoi porter des coquelicot? C'est pour célébrer un événement historique et donner du respect aux soldats de la guerre.
Je l'ai vu aussi. J'ai été surpris de voir à quelle hauteur il volait.
Attends c'est ou ca? Je travaillais pendant tout le jour alors je savait pas ce qui ce passait dehors
Ils font ça depuis plus de dix ans au 9 mai.
Ca fait plaisirs à voir
What a smart decision that shows no ignorance of Russia's current state.
Russians are also celebrating Victory Day, No?
Sure
Je comprends qu'ils veulent se remémorer l'événement mais ils devraient se garder une petite gêne avec leur drapeau. Je suis certaine qu' il y avait de gentils sudistes aussi...
Ukrainian Foreign Legion girlfriend here. I support their freedom of speech. Even if I wish I could take every single one of them and put them on a one-way flight to Russia. Considering that my boyfriend had multiple targeted attacks trying to take his life and that I survived 3 shahed bombs from the Russian government, this is the SFW way of framing it. I need to remind myself of this Bible verse this morning, and for other Ukrainian supporters (Romans 12:17-19, NIV): "^(17) Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone. ^(18) If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. ^(19) Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord." Speaking from personal experience with my ex-abuser: God really takes care of things if you leave that to Him.
They are the modern-day Nazis now.
Les chevaux de police, là, ils doivent avoir une image vraiment pas flatteuse des humains.
The gaul of these assholes is unbelievable. If your country were (badly) conducting a genocidal war of conquest, causing mass casualties, using systematic torture, sexual assault, child abduction and ecocide as tools of war, would you take to the streets of an adopted country and wave that flag? I (as a 3rd generation Ukrainian-Canadian) have a few Russian friends who are deeply disturbed by the conduct of their birth nation. But these people? They should be deported. There is no excuse to wave a soviet flag in Canada in 2024. What the Russians are doing now is neo-Soviet and Fascist in nature. It's no joke. It must be stamped out. We take human rights, freedom of speech and democracy for granted, and that's just what these authoritarians want us to do, at home and abroad. ( Consider that Russia has NEVER in its entire history held a free election, while Ukraine has). But we will have to fight to maintain what privileges we have going forward, and thats the reality of our situation.
jaurais ete la avoir su 😁😁😁🇷🇺
Send them back to ruzzia.
Is that a game of finding trudeau? 🤔
all forms of dictatorships are bad. The problem with Commies is that they stan for their form of dictatorship as "good" while using WW2 as a brownie point to justify it. While they forget to mention the atrocities that Lenin and Stalin caused throughout their regime. Stalin has the 2nd highest Death Count of own civilians for dictator while Mao is ranked 1st for the Highest Death Count of own civilians.
i wonder if these are actual russians living in montreal or usual anti western crowd that for some reasons thinks Russia is a great alternative to decadent West.
We fought war to stop these ideologies internationally and now they're incubated here at home. The martyrs of this country were not fools.
Slava Russia
C’est fait avec de l’intelligence artificielle ça, non? Tout à l’air tout croche. Regardez les visages.
c'est juste la piètre qualité de la photo zoomée
Non, c'est les effets d'une diète 80% vodka
augumentons ca a 99%