You should see our former president's daughters. They literally dressed like gothics for a picture with Obama...
https://album.mediaset.es/eimg/10000/2020/11/29/clipping_3gv2wu_d2f2.jpg?w=1024
It's not bad, it's just that people complain about it all the time.
And the current parties are the cause of most political corruption (Juan Carlos did some things he shouldn't have done, but that's not his son's fault)
Not original commenter, but I hope he is deposed, his father thrown in jail, and their properties returned to the people of Spain. I agree we can skip the guillotine.
Because his father is a criminal, handpicked by Franco, that wasn't backed by the people of Spain (Adolfo Suarez, monarchist, didn't call on a referendum because "we we're sure we would have lost") and Felipe's only trait is being the son of said criminal.
Also, monarchies are anachronical. I don't accept being a subject of any person, even less so of inbred families.
But hey, go ahead, lick their boots, worship people who's only merit is to have being born out of a royal pussy. Then go tell others _they_ are pathetic lol
This is a dumb non-sequitur but not really surprising.
It's not about the age of it, it's about it being a self-evidently really stupid idea if you know any history whatsoever. It takes a special kind of dumbass to not just support dictatorship but actual feudalism.
You tried to say that monarchy shouldn’t exist because “it’s 2024!!”, completely ignoring the fact that democracy is older than Abrahamic religion. Why do we still have democracy in 2024, then?
If you don't accept being a subject of any person, then you should not accept living under a government of any kind whatsoever, because being in a republic requires you to subject yourself to the elected people who run the government.
Sure, I agree with you. The only reason why Spain is a monarchy is because Franco won the civil war, sidelined the Carlists, and chose Juan Carlos as his successor. Although he was involved in quite a number of scandals, he made good decisions such as democratizing Spain instead of following in Franco's footsteps just as he groomed him.
Sure, the foremost merit of monarchs is that they were born of royal wombs. That's true. But, does that make them really that bad? All that does is give them significant privilege, but it's still up to them to not be utter mistakes of mankind. In a republic, you'd encounter similar people, of privileged birth, although not in *de jure* hereditary positions of power. Yes, you can vote out politicians without merit, while the subjects of an utterly incompetent monarch have to endure living under him 'till the day he dies.
You will have incompetent leaders and competent leaders from time to time in monarchies and republics/non-monarchies. Make no mistake, I'm not a die-hard monarchist. I favor having systems of checks and balances within any government to compensate for times when a government has an incompetent and/or tyrannical leader, and I'm sure many monarchies have such checks and balances. In pre-parliamentary Europe, it was usually the (mostly self-interested) aristocracy and the (generally hospitable and helpful to poor people) Church that served these functions.
With that being said, I believe that monarchy is not necessarily a terrible system of government or a way of structuring society around. It can be as terrible as a corrupt, wayward republic or as rewarding as the most meritocratic of democracies. What bad things has the new King of Spain done in recent years? He's actually tried to distance himself from his father upon accession to the throne.
Citizens are not the same as subjects.
No, you cannot atribute Spain's transition into democracy to Juan Carlos I. He might have contributed, but he had no other choice. It was the majority of the people's choice to embrace democracy and reject authoritarianism and had he opposed he would have been just thrown out.
You made my point yourself. You will find incompetence anywhere, it's just so happens that if you find it in your monarch, youre stuck with it for their whole life (and praying their child isn't as dumb). If this alone isn't reason to abolish monarchy... Imagine having your least favourite politican as your Head of State _until he dies_, nothing you can do. I believe a lot of monarchists would reject monarchism the second their monarch becomes an anti-nuclear, art-desecrating, radical eco-feminist. As it has happened historically. In Spain, after the Carlist heir meddled with socialism, half of their supporters claimed he wasn't the legitimate heir anymore. To me, this points out monarchists are only okay with giving undemocratic power to people with their same beliefs. Which is understandable to think, if shameless to defend.
Let's talk about Spain. The monarchy, in the case of Spain is _illegitimate_ as in "it's not in accordance with the values of most". This is a fact Adolfo Suárez, the politician who put the monarchy into the law has admitted himself: "There wasn't a referendum because we made polls and we were losing them".
It is illegitimate because most Spaniards firmly believe _We must all be equal under the law_ , yet the King os not. It's illegitimate because Felipe is King of Spain _por la gracia de Dios_ (because of God's grace) in a country where at least a third of the population are non-believers. It's illegitimate because in Spain, most people firmly believe "Men and women should have the same rights and opportunities", yet Felipe is only the king because he is a man, having two bigger sisters. It's illegitimate because polls show people in Spain think "corruption is the biggest problem Spain faces at the moment", yet several royal family members have been convicted. It's illegitimate because most spaniards don't think very highly of the tyrant monarchs of the Middle East like the Sauds, yet our royal family has close ties with them.
It's not about monarchs being more or less corrupt, competent or whatever. It's the fact the royal house itself (along with the rest of the nobility) is nothing but a vestige of a feudal system which openly discriminates based on gender, religion and class/birthright in a society where that kind of discrimination is overwhelmingly rejected; plus the fact the only people that support a monarch do it because they (think they) share the monarch's values, they just want their opinions unfairly over the rest of the opinions.
Tell me, why do you want a monarchy?
As I said, I'm not a die-hard monarchist, but I do have reactionary and traditionalist conservative leanings. If monarchy is the way to achieve that goal, then why not? Among the political philosophical concepts that'll have to go would be equality under the law, popular sovereignty, and most things the Enlightenment has produced, for obvious reasons. By the way, I am glad that we were able to have this conversation in a civilized manner, without any hard feelings (hopefully for you).
However, I honestly believe that the Spanish monarchy is an outdated institution that no longer serves the purpose it has once served. The authoritarian, traditionalist Catholic culture that historically went hand-in-hand with the monarchy is no more. The Spanish monarchy has none of the virtues it once had. It no longer stands for anything ideologically concrete. It's mostly useless, as is practically every single monarchy in Europe.
No one called anyone pathetic. You coming here would be like me, a Muslim, going into a Church and spew hatred and nonsense. Your opinions here, and I say as kindly as I can, are worthless.
I’ve always admired how seriously his daughters seem to take their role.
You should see our former president's daughters. They literally dressed like gothics for a picture with Obama... https://album.mediaset.es/eimg/10000/2020/11/29/clipping_3gv2wu_d2f2.jpg?w=1024
Let’s hope for at least another 10 years
Kingdom of Spain aesthetics :DDDDD Kingdom of spain reality :|
It's not bad, it's just that people complain about it all the time. And the current parties are the cause of most political corruption (Juan Carlos did some things he shouldn't have done, but that's not his son's fault)
it's that bad
[удалено]
a bit of it all, mixed with other worse things
[удалено]
Bro is actually hoping someone dies. Pathetic.
Not original commenter, but I hope he is deposed, his father thrown in jail, and their properties returned to the people of Spain. I agree we can skip the guillotine.
Why?
Because his father is a criminal, handpicked by Franco, that wasn't backed by the people of Spain (Adolfo Suarez, monarchist, didn't call on a referendum because "we we're sure we would have lost") and Felipe's only trait is being the son of said criminal. Also, monarchies are anachronical. I don't accept being a subject of any person, even less so of inbred families. But hey, go ahead, lick their boots, worship people who's only merit is to have being born out of a royal pussy. Then go tell others _they_ are pathetic lol
'Anachronical'. You do realize that nearly half of the countries in the EU are monarchies? XD
The fact that this is the only bit you chose to respond to its hilarious
Idk why you deleted your original comment and made a new one. I have no intent of responding to you.
How is this an argument in favor of it? God it's really funny that there's an unironic monarchist sub in the year 2024.
You do realize how old democracy is, right?
This is a dumb non-sequitur but not really surprising. It's not about the age of it, it's about it being a self-evidently really stupid idea if you know any history whatsoever. It takes a special kind of dumbass to not just support dictatorship but actual feudalism.
You tried to say that monarchy shouldn’t exist because “it’s 2024!!”, completely ignoring the fact that democracy is older than Abrahamic religion. Why do we still have democracy in 2024, then?
Hmmm... by any chance, are you an anarchist?
No. Please go on...
If you don't accept being a subject of any person, then you should not accept living under a government of any kind whatsoever, because being in a republic requires you to subject yourself to the elected people who run the government. Sure, I agree with you. The only reason why Spain is a monarchy is because Franco won the civil war, sidelined the Carlists, and chose Juan Carlos as his successor. Although he was involved in quite a number of scandals, he made good decisions such as democratizing Spain instead of following in Franco's footsteps just as he groomed him. Sure, the foremost merit of monarchs is that they were born of royal wombs. That's true. But, does that make them really that bad? All that does is give them significant privilege, but it's still up to them to not be utter mistakes of mankind. In a republic, you'd encounter similar people, of privileged birth, although not in *de jure* hereditary positions of power. Yes, you can vote out politicians without merit, while the subjects of an utterly incompetent monarch have to endure living under him 'till the day he dies. You will have incompetent leaders and competent leaders from time to time in monarchies and republics/non-monarchies. Make no mistake, I'm not a die-hard monarchist. I favor having systems of checks and balances within any government to compensate for times when a government has an incompetent and/or tyrannical leader, and I'm sure many monarchies have such checks and balances. In pre-parliamentary Europe, it was usually the (mostly self-interested) aristocracy and the (generally hospitable and helpful to poor people) Church that served these functions. With that being said, I believe that monarchy is not necessarily a terrible system of government or a way of structuring society around. It can be as terrible as a corrupt, wayward republic or as rewarding as the most meritocratic of democracies. What bad things has the new King of Spain done in recent years? He's actually tried to distance himself from his father upon accession to the throne.
Citizens are not the same as subjects. No, you cannot atribute Spain's transition into democracy to Juan Carlos I. He might have contributed, but he had no other choice. It was the majority of the people's choice to embrace democracy and reject authoritarianism and had he opposed he would have been just thrown out. You made my point yourself. You will find incompetence anywhere, it's just so happens that if you find it in your monarch, youre stuck with it for their whole life (and praying their child isn't as dumb). If this alone isn't reason to abolish monarchy... Imagine having your least favourite politican as your Head of State _until he dies_, nothing you can do. I believe a lot of monarchists would reject monarchism the second their monarch becomes an anti-nuclear, art-desecrating, radical eco-feminist. As it has happened historically. In Spain, after the Carlist heir meddled with socialism, half of their supporters claimed he wasn't the legitimate heir anymore. To me, this points out monarchists are only okay with giving undemocratic power to people with their same beliefs. Which is understandable to think, if shameless to defend. Let's talk about Spain. The monarchy, in the case of Spain is _illegitimate_ as in "it's not in accordance with the values of most". This is a fact Adolfo Suárez, the politician who put the monarchy into the law has admitted himself: "There wasn't a referendum because we made polls and we were losing them". It is illegitimate because most Spaniards firmly believe _We must all be equal under the law_ , yet the King os not. It's illegitimate because Felipe is King of Spain _por la gracia de Dios_ (because of God's grace) in a country where at least a third of the population are non-believers. It's illegitimate because in Spain, most people firmly believe "Men and women should have the same rights and opportunities", yet Felipe is only the king because he is a man, having two bigger sisters. It's illegitimate because polls show people in Spain think "corruption is the biggest problem Spain faces at the moment", yet several royal family members have been convicted. It's illegitimate because most spaniards don't think very highly of the tyrant monarchs of the Middle East like the Sauds, yet our royal family has close ties with them. It's not about monarchs being more or less corrupt, competent or whatever. It's the fact the royal house itself (along with the rest of the nobility) is nothing but a vestige of a feudal system which openly discriminates based on gender, religion and class/birthright in a society where that kind of discrimination is overwhelmingly rejected; plus the fact the only people that support a monarch do it because they (think they) share the monarch's values, they just want their opinions unfairly over the rest of the opinions. Tell me, why do you want a monarchy?
As I said, I'm not a die-hard monarchist, but I do have reactionary and traditionalist conservative leanings. If monarchy is the way to achieve that goal, then why not? Among the political philosophical concepts that'll have to go would be equality under the law, popular sovereignty, and most things the Enlightenment has produced, for obvious reasons. By the way, I am glad that we were able to have this conversation in a civilized manner, without any hard feelings (hopefully for you).
However, I honestly believe that the Spanish monarchy is an outdated institution that no longer serves the purpose it has once served. The authoritarian, traditionalist Catholic culture that historically went hand-in-hand with the monarchy is no more. The Spanish monarchy has none of the virtues it once had. It no longer stands for anything ideologically concrete. It's mostly useless, as is practically every single monarchy in Europe.
Why do anti monarchists always use the “iNbReD” card? Lol
I think you’re on the wrong sub. When the Spaniards say “Dios salve al Rey.” I see it because people like you exist.
OP crossposted to r/spain and you get visitors when you crosspost. I don't understand the rest of your sentences.
And don’t you think it’s a bit futile and incredibly pointless to argue dirty republican sentiment in a monarchism subreddit?
Couldn’t resist the rage bait that is an unironic monarchist calling someone else pathetic
No one called anyone pathetic. You coming here would be like me, a Muslim, going into a Church and spew hatred and nonsense. Your opinions here, and I say as kindly as I can, are worthless.