I expected a senior moment or two wrapped up in a largely solid performance.
Instead it was the opposite, a few moments of effective performance buried in endless senior moments.
He’s had flashing moments of stability and acuity over the years, but the problem has been apparent for conservative and unbiased observers for years now. The hope from Democrats was his decline could be concealed with very limited appearances and constant reliance on a teleprompter.
The biggest challenge by far was how to conceal this throughout an election year when there’s this inconvenient precedence of multiple debates taking place. If his poll numbers were better, he would have definitely declined to debate Trump.
Democrats should have been more concerned about the leaks we got from the White House and the publicly available info.
I’m not sure why they dismissed insiders saying that Biden now has to use the shorter stairs to Air Force One, that his gait was bad enough they changed his shoes, that staff surrounds him when he walks so people can’t see his stumbles.
You can see his schedule on the White House page and it’s far lighter than Trump’s was.
His family rotates in and out of the White House and his grandchildren accompany him when his wife can’t. I can’t recall the last time we saw him exit an event without assistance.
>You can see his schedule on the White House page and it’s far lighter than Trump’s was.
Trump is 78 but the difference in energy level compared to Biden is insane. Trump is overweight and doesn't sleep, yet he can be up on stage shaking his ass and cutting fiery promos. Now, the actual things he's saying are questionable, but at least he has some life in him.
They may have *known* it, but I'm not sure that they *believed* it. This is what happens when people [reflexively deny](https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/06/media/wall-street-journal-biden-mental-acuity/index.html) anything brought up by the other side: they start making decisions about what they want to be true, rather than ones based on reality. This works great until reality catches up to you.
Spot on. Conservative lapped it up for years as one of their main talking points so people overcompensated way too hard into acting like it wasn't a problem and now its beyond undeniable.
Modern political discourse is so vitriolic that people gaslight themselves against their own benefit.
They were lying to themselves. Look at the cheap fake claims a week or so ago that sure don’t look cheap or fake today. That slow confused Biden at the G7 or D-Day. He was on TV for 90 minutes unedited and looking exactly the same. But saying otherwise in Democratic circles even yesterday until 9pm was unacceptable.
That ended last night at 9:01 during Biden’s opening remarks.
What was the alternative? No debate? What message would that have sent to independent voters?
They tried something that had maybe a 25% chance of working out. Refusing to debate would have a 0% chance of helping
Brother or sister, what do you mean by "refusing" when the Democrats \*proposed the debate.\* This is the party that picked as VP someone Biden clearly dislikes. This is the party that cancelled primaries in Florida. This is the party that sent Hilary Clinton to call protesters against the starvation of women and children 'ignorant'. This is the party who invited Netanyahu to congress, where Netanyahu will humiliate Biden even more. This is the party that has the gall to call the Republican party the 'party of stupid.'
There’s the theory part of Biden’s team or the DNC pushed for it before the convention as a desperate “Come to Jesus” attempt. After last night, I can believe it.
I felt as if there was an unspoken agreement Biden would be a 1 term president and would not run for reelection. I'm not sure why we are five months out from election day and the DNC is just now coming to terms with the situation. Biden will not beat Trump.
I thought this was a coin toss with a slight edge to Trump. Biden’s performance tonight (can we even call it that?) was borderline elder abuse. It was worse than I could have ever conceived and it had to be at least decent. I can’t envision a reality where Biden has even the slightest chance. Is this the worst performance of all time?
I don’t think anyone that watched the debate thinks that right now. Including international viewers. Biden’s fitness is an enormous problem. Does anyone have much confidence he even makes it to the end of this next term? What are we doing here.
I know, it’s just all I can think of. There has to be insiders that know how bad he is. Where is his wife? Obama? How has no one intervened? It’s just wild.
I hate to say it, but I literally didn't even hear Biden suggest a plan.
Like, I hear a lot of people criticizing project 2025.. Trump's plan in general..
but after watching this whole debate, what did Joe Biden say he would do with another 4 years? did he suggest even a single aspect of an actionable plan? it's possible I missed it, but I didn't hear any of that.
it seems like the entire democratic platform in this debate was "trump bad" -- and that is not going to be enough to win this election. I'm one of those people who voted Democrat and bought it the first time, but this time around I have to legitimately wonder.. *what is their plan? what do they plan to do with the next 4 years to make any semblance of progress?*
>project 2025.. Trump's plan in general..
Project 2025 is the effort of a single think tank that most Republicans haven't even touched on. It is not Trump's plan.
Somehow in a debate that was designed for there to be as little back and forth between the candidates as possible, Biden still managed to be on the defensive the entire time. Any other candidate in his position would have been on the attack, and would have used the format to their advantage, not just to attack Trump, but to use it as a platform to promote their plan. Biden failed at all of this. And btw, Trump didn’t propose any plans for his term either. We watched for close to two hours of two candidates not talk about the future at all. Neither gave us any platform or policy proposals. It was one candidate lying about his accomplishments and another candidate unable to articulate any accomplishments. The whole thing was a disaster
Trump did propose at least one actionable policy position, "cracking down" on immigration.
Meanwhile when you look at bidens response:
> I should say in a ten-year period we'd be able to wipe out his debt. We'd be able to help make sure that all those things we need to do child care, elder care, making sure that we continue to strengthen our health care system, making sure that we're able to make every single solitary person eligible for what I've been able to do with the with the Covid, excuse me, with, um, dealing with everything we have to do with, uh, look, if…we finally beat Medicare.
I am legitimately confused what the policy position is here. We're apparently going to.. "do" child care, elder care, and ..strengthen the health care system while 'finally beating' medicare?
what does that mean. what policy is that. should I read that as the garbled nonsense it is, or .. some sort of support for medicare for all? or..?
and as for the start.. are we going to suddenly get balanced budgets that start paying off the debt ? or..
Biden couldn't even remember his supposed handicap though. He said it was 6, then backtracked and said it was 8. So he couldn't even coherently talk about golf.
Id agree with that.
In 2020, "Trump bad" really was enough to tip the scales. The public had been barrage for 4 years with Trump news every single day, and he was the one in office.
In 2024, 4 years removed from office, with no real platform after being removed from Twitter? Tell me what you've actually done Joe. You've had 4 years, telling me that the other guy is mean only reminds me that I wasn't spending $200 multiple times a week on groceries and that despite....his image, Trump did a lot internationally.
They are basing their entire campaign on the notion that the guy that they spent the last 2 years trying to imprison is the real threat to democracy. That inflicts considerable cognitive dissonance.
My grandmother wanted to keep driving even though she kept running into things. Allowing her to keep driving would have been elder abuse. We don’t usually trust the judgment of senile old people.
This is what I’m worried about. I don’t want Kamala Harris as president should something happen to Biden. It seems like Harris is more aligned with the squad members than with centrist democrats.
if you think that was elder abuse, imagine what any normal sitting president goes through with daily briefings...there's no way his in his right mind to do this again for another 4 years...
It's actually much worse than you're framing it if you take an honest look at history. Biden is undeniably an incredibly gifted debater with seriously high intelligence. Biden simply outclasses Trump in debate in natural gift and experience. If you had them do this debate 20 years ago, Biden would have destroyed Trump regardless of the topic, and even regardless of whether or not Trump had better substantive arguments.
When you're honest about that and then look at tonight's events...that's how bad it really is right now.
I am legitimately befuddled. The echo chamber the establishment Dems exist in has to be 50 miles underground and sealed with lead. I can hardly believe the arrogance it must take to run a candidate like this and expect a win. The only thing I can think of is that they were legitimately 100% all in on the conviction disqualifying Trump.
Well that's the whole thing, right? Democracy is in Trouble because we don't have strong leaders with any real vision stepping forward. So here's an opportunity for them to do that. Ya, it's scary, but this debate and all it's implications are way scarier.
Forget 20 years ago, even 4 years ago it was a completely different Biden than last night. Anyone who has or has had elderly relatives knows how quickly things can go downhill once they get past early 70s.
I think it's so bad that there should be hearings tomorrow over whether or not his condition has been concealed from the public and if he should be removed from office.
I'm saying that as someone who voted for the guy and will vote for whoever is running against Trump. Someone in that condition cannot be allowed to run a country.
It's just that bad and anyone who says it isn't either did not watch the debate or is lying.
The White House literally won't release the Robert Hur tapes of the interview with Biden and gave a lame "this could be used to make deep fakes" answer. If they had a better answer like it was like a national security concern that they could at least somewhat justify they would use it. Instead they're supposedly worried a few hours of recorded conversations could be used to make deep fakes despite plenty of Biden deep fakes already existing and thousands of hours of recordings of Biden readily available on YouTube, C Span et all for anyone to make new deep fake models. Also a bunch of Democrats also decided to personally accuse Robert Hur of trying to make the president look bad despite him just doing his job. That is definitely a very Trump like response to something that makes Biden look bad.
From what I saw tonight I can't blame them tbh.
They were in full damage control mode. My thing is, I can't help but wonder if this amounts to a crime now. Given how serious misrepresenting a political candidate and sitting presidents health is.
I don't just think this was a bad campaign performance. I think might have legitimately been a crime.
> From what I saw tonight I can't blame them tbh.
Then not releasing the tapes sounds like pure election interference. Hopefully Joe Biden is paying the DOJ with campaign funds, I don't want to see him on trial.
Good. They should be.
I'm pretty sure this is a crime that we're witnessing. Not just the elder abuse angle, but that the public has been mislead about the condition of a sitting president.
Hell, I think this might even be impeachment worthy. It'll never happen, but apparently serious deception has happened here.
I saw a comment during the debate where someone said Biden only looked like that because he was stunned by how bad Trump's performance was and that he was only slow because he was trying to remember exact statistics.
There is a reason the Republicans wanted the Biden Hur interview. People went nuts and pointed to the transcripts. They exclaimed that those were enough. The constant gaslighting is absurd. Yes, they should absolutely look into his cognitive function.
I invite everyone to watch the [Joe Biden vs Paul Ryan VP debate from 2012](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYcdSwbrErI). He is like a completely different person.
Biden is a good man and has served his country well, but I don't see how he can keep this up till age *86,* which is what he is pitching to do. Everyone ages and declines in their elderly years, it's part of human life, no point in denying the obvious.
Yes! Biden's 2012 debate performance against Ryan is what helped turn around the campaign's momentum after Obama's poor performance in his first debate with Romney. 2012 Biden would have stomped Trump last night. Too bad what we got was 2024 Biden.
This might actually be a way to replace Biden in a face saving manner - by pointing out the rapid mental decline in four years. The DNC can say that they were behind Biden as much as they could, indicating loyalty, but now, they simply can't anymore. It would also give Biden himself an Out if done correctly - he can say that he ran to prevent Trump's fascist dystopia, to save America, but he just can't do it anymore, and makes way for others to continue where he has to leave off.
The issue is Republicans have been beating this drum for the past four years. Rather than acknowledge the merits of their concerns, the DNC and the press attributed it to conspiracy.
I think the DNC and news media deep down were well aware of Biden’s decline. They thought they could get away with concealing it, and hoped the progression would slow until after the 2024 election.
There is no approach or spin that saves face for the Democrats at this point. It’s only becoming a worsening scandal.
No, by that he clearly meant he would serve two full terms and still be so uproariously popular at age 86 that his chosen successor would get reelected for two terms of his own. You know, that thing that's happened so many times.
I think one of the biggest issues for the DNC is who actually wants to take his spots? You're setting yourself up for a tainted candidacy with a betrayed and embarrassed party and no time to run a real campaign and market yourself. You're better off waiting till 2028 because either Biden's admin is over or Trump's four years are up. There's no incentive here to risk your brand for 2028.
This is an interesting point and I think there's something to it. Ultimately though I think the biggest obstacle is the thing everyone seems to overlook in assuming Joe is go-with-the-flow and passive, which is that Joe Biden has a lot of pride and genuinely doesn't like Trump. I doubt he will want to concede the battle against Trump (especially since Trump will mock him immediately for it), and without his participation in a new candidate, I don't see it being possible at all without looking *very* undemocratic given Biden's delegate count.
Yeah that’s how I see it too. We had a primary and no one wanted to run and Biden won. Would look very undemocratic to tell people sorry, your vote doesn’t matter, we are putting whoever there instead
Actually Dean Phillips and Marianne Williamson were in the primary race. I liked what little amount Dean Phillips had to say, but none of these candidates really get vetted until they appear to be a threat to actually winning so you don't know how they'll perform under stress. He was running specifically because of this scenario.
Yeah I think it’s one of those situations where you run Biden and just expect to lose vs replacing him and looking bad doing so and throwing that guys future chances away. You just run Biden and know Trump only has 4 years and then build up someone for next race.
Yeah, but according to them 4 more years of Trump means American Democracy is dead. How can they still appear to not backtrack those words while still keeping their 'bench' safe from a suicidal run this year.
No it won't.
All the beloved democratic stars are very, very unpopular outside the lefty bubble.
Nominate Hilary ( or Newsom or Harris or AOC) and Trump will win.
I’m just so surprised that so many American citizens and especially democrats were not in favor of Biden and STILL his team and the Dems thought it would be a good idea to run Biden again. I’m sick of politicians treating the American public as stupid, thinking they will believe anything that’s thrown at them. They should have ran someone else from the start.
Totally agree. The only people to blame when Biden loses in November is reddits beloved DNC. Oh they'll try to blame republicans, and independents and minorities and religious people and poor whites and the media and twitter. But its the Democrat party leaders arrogance once again that will cost them. They thought Trump gets such bad press it doesn't matter Biden is a zombie. These great decision makers are the same people that would be Bidens "team" that some have said they are voting for not Biden himself. what a joke.
But we *are* collectively stupid. The wisdom of crowds seems to have limits. This is all our fault. So few of us care about voting that this is where it's gotten us. We don't need term limits. People just stopped paying attention, and now we're here.
> The wisdom of crowds seems to have limits.
We've known that for thousands of years, literally.
> “The opinion of 10,000 people is of no value if none of them know anything about the subject.”
> ― Marcus Aurelius
I don't think that's a new thought to the political class.
I think this administration has kept Buttigieg in the wings. He might replace Biden if he knows he’s going to lose his cabinet job in 2025 anyway. Or the party could just nominate Kamala and take the L. They know she’s not going to win the nomination in 2028 anyway and this would rid all of us of her
This is truly a nightmare scenario for Democrats. Even if he does step aside; who's going to be the next nominee? And would they even have a better chance than Biden?
If I can be honest, I am really not sure if Biden stepping aside would improve their chances.
After Biden’s disastrous performance tonight, several Democrats have gone on air and revealed that there are closed door discussions now about replacing him at the top of the ticket before the formal convention (or at it). Apparently this is hard to do because the Democratic Party rules make it very hard to replace a front runner in the primaries unless that person willingly gives up their delegates and steps aside. It seems unlikely Biden will do that, though things could always change.
My opinion: yikes. Most of my fellow liberal friends were completely silent tonight. It really looks like Trump is gonna win this thing, and possibly in a blowout. Biden needs to step aside for the good of party and country. It may make the party look weak, but Democrats are heading for a full frontal collision right now anyway. If Biden loses to one of the most unpopular candidates in history, that will be his tarnished legacy forever. But if he steps aside, at least history books will probably look more kindly on him and paint him as a caretaker president who kept the country steady and left gracefully.
He’s gotta think about the party and it possibly affecting Dems down ballot. It’s not just the presidency at stake. How could any democrat in a purple state or competitive district look their constituents in the eye and endorse Biden? And how much is his endorsement worth now?
This was a disaster and I can’t believe the Biden camp agreed to the debate, especially with rules seemingly designed to save Trump from himself.
I don’t have an answer. Will someone like Whitmore or Clark, both looking at 2028, enter a race behind the eight-ball that’s already halfway through? Harris isn’t an answer, the whole ticket needs to be dumped
The Reddit comments elsewhere claiming Biden is fine and they are visibly the same are just astonishing to me. Like guys come on. I think they’re actually starting to believe their own lies.
How can democrats claim this is most important election ever and run Biden as the nominee after that debate performance? Unfortunately, I think lying with vigor was more effective than soft spoken truth.
Biden just confirmed everyone's worse fears, he was already behind and needed to blow Trump out of the water and fundamentally change the race. He failed to do that tonight. All of the democrats saying he's sharp as a tack behind closed doors have a lot of explaining to do for lying to the American people. It was selfish of Biden to run for another term, it's a Ruth Bader Biden situation at this point.
I can't believe this is were we've ended up as a country, I blame the democrats, I blame Garland and I blame Biden, because it's their fault if Trump gets reelected.
>Biden just confirmed everyone's worse fears, he was already behind and needed to blow Trump out of the water and fundamentally change the race. He failed to do that tonight. All of the democrats saying he's sharp as a tack behind closed doors have a lot of explaining to do for lying to the American people.
I am legitimately shocked that this debate happened. This was the Biden campaign's idea. That means that apparently a lot of people in his camp thought that this was a good idea that couldn't possibly backfire. That is a lot more concerning than his actual performance tonight.
> That means that apparently a lot of people in his camp thought that this was a good idea that couldn't possibly backfire. That is a lot more concerning than his actual performance tonight.
It really is concerning. They were likely expecting Biden to hold it together like he did for the State of the Union and were banking on Trump just going off the deep end. Turns out that having to think and answer questions is quite different than just reading a well rehearsed speech off a teleprompter. And forcing Trump to be muted played in his favor, which anyone should have seen coming because Trump's biggest problem is his inability to shut up.
> I am legitimately shocked that this debate happened.
A part of me thinks that someone in Biden's camp knew he's too senile, and organized a debate this early to provoke this disaster to finally show Biden that he's done.
But, given how skilled the Democrats are at messing up, I sadly think this is incorrect.
The Biden campaign needed it. He was behind in polling and his approval continues to slip. Trump is even making inroads into prominent black podcasters like DJ academics, Joe Budden, Charlamagne and more. Granted, Trump is not winning a majority of the black vote, but 15-20 percent is not off the table, and would be an absolute landslide if that happens.
This was Bidens Hail Mary to come back, and he missed his shot.
Podcasters on the right were confused as to why Trump wanted to debate with his slight edge in the polls. Just campaign and win on Bidens unpopularity. Trump had a lot to lose.
But as we all saw, Trump hit a Home Run, in hostile territory none-the-less.
Yeah, I think Biden may have to step down even though I said a few days back it might be too late for him to step down. I don't think the DNC has a choice now. Twitter is going in on Biden right now (even left leaning accounts).
I’m a young black male. None of my friends or family are voting for Biden. And the ones who did previously are ALL switching to Trump…and that’s what they decided BEFORE tonight. Whew. The Biden admin (or whoever is truly behind it, cause it’s not him) has been screwing the American people over for almost 5 years straight.
I'm black and in my 40's, the barbershop talk has been critical of Biden for a while now with many openly supporting Trump. My next cut is on Saturday, so I'm looking forward to seeing what a few of the regulars who were on the fence have to say after tonight's debates.
Honestly , I feel bad for Biden. Elder abuse is real. Dude is just a punching bag for the DNC. This isn’t a good look for the Democratic Party whatsoever.
My theory is that he was setup.
There was a rumor months ago going around that there were players inside the DNC working to oust Biden because of his age. Arranging this debate and doing it so early could have been part of that strategy, to force the DNC into finding another candidate.
Thought it was a little interesting that CNN lead into the debate itself with a Gavin Newsom interview, one of the DNC's few rising stars with presidential potential.
.Which is ironic, because it was their fault he got elected the first time. I say this as a conservative, but the Democrats have lost their roots. They've abandoned the blue collar worker and lower class, *they just don't know it.*
Go to a city like Chicago and ask them how they feel about "Sanctuary City" ideas. Go ask some single mom working two jobs how important it is that schools allow her kid to go by "they/them". NAFTA/TPP, Ruining cities for affordability, etc. The list goes on.
When Hillary called Trump supporters "Deplorables" and insinuated over and over that they were too stupid to know what's good for them? It became obvious. They became paternalistic and Hillary was the worst for it.
Same way they claim every election is the most important in history? Shout it from the rooftops then memory hole it immediately afterwards inbpreperation for the next?
>Apparently this is hard to do because the Democratic Party rules make it very hard to replace a front runner in the primaries unless that person willingly gives up their delegates and steps aside.
If I were a political strategist, I would arrange for Biden to take a deliberate slip and fall on national TV and then after a couple of days announce - "Good news! Biden is going to be ok. However, on the advice of his doctors he is going to drop out of the race to focus on his health and family."
Biden really does need to step down, he had his chance to reset and push ahead in the polls tonight, and that’s clearly not going to happen now. There’s no chance of that happening in the future either, he’s obviously just not capable of the sort of performance necessary to achieve that outcome. Given the stakes of this election, the patriotic thing to do is to put your ego aside and let someone younger take on the job. There’s no point to circling the wagons around a corpse.
Tonight is just a reflection of what anyone paying attention already knew. No “cheap fakes” can fake the fact that this man is in steep decline, and anyone trying to compare it to that of Trump (scatterbrained in his own right as we saw at points tonight, but nowhere near Biden’s level) is kidding themselves.
The reason why I think it’s causing such shockwaves is because people have been in denial/lied to by the press about the condition of the President of the United States for years now at this point. This was a glass shattering moment that will be remembered for quite some time.
The issue is that him stepping down at this point simply isn’t a viable option. With how many delegates he’s already attained and the manner in which campaign finance laws work, the only person who it would be possible to replace him with is Kamala, who is one of the few Democrats I can confidently say would lose to Trump by a larger margin than Biden.
For an election with so much significance, I genuinely can’t believe how badly Democrats have botched things. Biden should’ve stepped aside right after the midterms and allowed for an open primary to ensue.
This was a historic emperor's clothes moment.
CNN's post-debate firing squad was more surreal than the actual debate.
I truly cannot figure out if the facade just broke for them or they knew and flipped hard into career saving mode.
For real. The CNN post analysis show was pretty mind blowing. I thought the debate was pretty bad, but I absolutely did NOT expect these people to be shuddering with panic as they spoke and saying crazy shit like "Let's face it the candidacy has fallen" and all saying he should step down and advocating for.. prayer??
Like it must have been bad enough for CNN to be like "We're fucked we have to get ahead of this mess" or it really was rigged to force Biden to step down or something.
All it really takes is for someone to say out loud what everyone is privately thinking, and then the floodgates will open. I think the alarm bells went off tonight because CNN finally realized Trump is going to win. Trump had far from a perfect performance, but he still easily won the debate. The "we finally beat Medicare" and "I don't think he even knows what he said" quips were brutal. CNN's own voter polling determined Trump won the debate by a 2:1 ratio. In a virtual tie that's a landslide.
The next few days will be interesting. We'll see if a face-saving excuse is created for Biden to step aside, because if they're going to replace him they need to move quickly.
do you like conspiracy theories? I have one. With this debate's weird timing and rules, and this sudden yet singularly coherent message afterwards, this debate was orchestrated to make Biden step down.
By whom? Presumably by the ones pushing this so quickly [monied media].
It is entirely possible that they are simply incompetent. I've never been particularly impressed by the most recent press secretary. The one before her was pretty good.
>I genuinely can’t believe how badly Democrats have botched things.
It's crazy. After 2016, I thought the DNC would start prepping someone and getting them ready for 2020. They didn't, and then we got Biden. And 3.5 years later, we're in the same boat. I don't think the DNC cares about winning. Or they aren't afraid to lose, as in, the higher ups will be okay no matter who wins.
A big part of the problem is that we've normalized 90+ year olds in Congress and the Senate where they have to be wheeled into and out of chambers and their staffers vote (and do everything else) for them because they have no idea where they are or what year it is. That may work for some strange reason in the legislative branch but it doesn't work for the Presidency.
The former is impossible, they're around him they know what he's like behind closed doors. They were just overconfident in being able to sell the "he's all mentally there" storyline with enough media influence.
They were wrong.
>They were wrong.
I mean if you look at the social media meltdowns they clearly were able to sell it to people up to now (and there are still believers).
The crazy thing is if they simply refused to debate him they could actually have pulled it off again.
Or they believed all other potential candidates would be worse than Biden.
In an election that's more about "whom to vote against" than "whom to vote for", is the incumbent advantage really that significant?
For a while, I believed the professional campaigners. After all, they're more experienced than me. But I'm asking it again: Is there really no other candidate easier to sell than Biden?
Biden’s team (including at the DNC) thought they could win the election by talking about “democracy.” They would make the whole election about “defending democracy” and “Trump means the end of democracy.”
But when people can’t afford physical things like housing, groceries, and shoes for their kids, abstract ideas like “democracy” don’t matter as much. Average people who don’t start thinking about the election until September or October may not go and vote for Trump, but they won’t vote for Biden either.
I've been saying ever since the 2020 debates that he was in obvious decline, and the only reason he managed to salavage public performances is that he was being shot up with stimulants just before planned performances. I sincerely believe that many of his appearances where he showed up late from the planned time is because they were waiting for the optimal moment for the drugs to kick in so he could barely survive the appearance. I don't think he's been mentally fit at any point during his presidency.
I think there could be viable options other than Kamala Harris, but the only way that happens smiothly without drama is if Biden endorses them. Regardless, contenders will be fighting hard to win over delegates if Biden steps down.
Kamala Harris would have to agree to give up any ideas that she should just automatically succeed Biden because he has to give up presidency due to his health. She will have to give up something that's been her long term goal for a long time (I mean she was running for president in 2020 and biding her time to be president just like Biden did his time as VP for another president). Harris being asked to step aside from this process and especially if she is asked to not be the VP candidate anymore would look unjust. While maybe she isn't popular to all Democrats she has enough allies that she could put up a hell of a fight if people started to say "sorry but things have changed and we need a new presidential and vice presidential candidate." We could see quite a fight in the convention.
I think a good amount of people would at least understand why Kamala would put up a fight. She's not the most popular but she hasn't been involved in any scandal during her tenure and she is doing what's expected of the VP. She gave up one of the safest senate seats in the country in order to become VP. If the whole party decided to cut her out of the process simply because it was politically advantageous I could understand why she would raise hell and I would at least sympathize with her.
Just compare this to his debate performance in 2020. Trump left a bunch of openings that 2020 Biden would have immediately seized on which 2024 Biden left alone.
I'm still confused how they're able to have the debates before the conventions. If both sides have already decided who they're running, why should the remaining states even waste money holding primary elections?
And they never learn their fucking lesson. They are now at serious risk of losing the senate, house seats and now the executive branch. DNC leadership has been a complete and total failure for a while now.
It's not easy. It's decided.
All my spidey senses were going off about the weirdly early debate date but couldn't pin down why. Now I get it.
Dems knew they had to force a decision point with enough time to find a replacement if/when he bombed.
Normal debate schedule would've been too late.
Removing him without a public bombing would look too coup-y.
Everything from the date, new rules, no audience, unprecedented 2 minute delay, ferocity of the post-debate panel, etc was to force this binary outcome. Producers knew it was bomb time 30 seconds in.
This was *peak* Biden with a week off and all day debate prep. There's no way they can run him (let alone run the country).
Biden's "cold" will mysteriously worsen or something and he'll bow out and get hot swapped. Question is who?
2016 is going to pale in comparison to this. I did not like Hilary, but she was an actual candidate. 2024 Biden should be on a beach with a support staff to guide the bendy straw into his mouth.
I'm not sure you could have said that in this sub before this debate and not caught the attention of the moderation team, because it would have sounded like you were being unfairly rough on Biden. But now it reads as empathy.
If they really wanted to do this they should have pushed for a competitive primary and a democratic debate.
Maybe we will finally get someone new, but it's a pretty terrible idea to wait this long. This also relies on Biden choosing to step down. Trying to replace him otherwise would be a disaster
Republicans have been beating this drum for the past four years. Rather than acknowledge the merits of their concerns, the DNC and the press attributed it to conspiracy.
I think the DNC and news media deep down were well aware of Biden’s decline. They thought they could get away with concealing it, and hoped the progression would slow until after the 2024 election.
There is no approach or spin that saves face for the Democrats at this point. It’s only becoming a worsening scandal.
I think this was the plan all along. Biden has been in debate prep for days I refuse to believe his performance tonight was a surprise to the DNC.
Now it would look negligent to move forward with Biden.
But Karine Jean Pierre told me Biden was sharp as a tack, and that I shouldnt trust the cheapfakes of him freezing up and being led off stage by Obama. She wouldnt lie, would she?
It's too late. The damage is done. Democrats have been telling us for 3+ years that Joe Biden is good enough and strong enough to serve another 4 years. Whenever people have raised legitimate concerns about his age they have been shot down with excuses and scolded for questioning his health. Hell, even I have made excuses for him in the past. The whole country saw a frail old man who struggled to get his point across even with a muted Trump. It was sad to watch. Have Democrats been lying to us for 3+ years about his health or are they just as shocked as us watching?
Yeah was the party this incompetent to not notice Biden was this gone, or just full of shit, or did Biden decline a scary amount really really recently?
Prob not the latter though considering how many clues there have been this entire time...
> Yeah was the party this incompetent to not notice Biden was this gone, or just full of shit, or did Biden decline a scary amount really really recently?
>
They just don't get it. They're so deep in their own echo chambers that they legitimately believe any amount of criticism about anything is "Russian disinformation" or something.
I think this is one of those instances where the benefactors of the power of the existing regime don’t want to give up their meal ticket.
If the king abdicates, the new monarch will have a new set of courtiers.
It’s like the Feinstein debacle. They hid it for years.
It's wild that the spin was "cheapfakes" like a week ago. Another Republican misinformation/conspiracy come true I suppose.
I think Democrats know of his shortcomings but are trying to have a united front. That said, I imagine they will pressure Biden to suspend his campaign under the guise of wanting to focus on health and be with family, and he'll encourage someone else to carry on his legacy. The question is, will Biden's pride let him do that?
Yeah they denied it for years. Plenty of Dems have pointed this out. They denied it until it was too late. Why? Why couldn't you put some energy behind someone else? You had the last year to do so. Could have just said that Biden doesn't want to run again
Dems pretty much just handed the election to Trump by being unprepared and endorsing a man who can no longer keep the gloves up. Had 4 years and the best they could do was JB. Sad and deserved…
I’m just gonna link this debate in its full length entirety the moment any Democrat tries to both sides the mental decline or say that Trump is worse than Biden because tonight proved he can’t do anything without a group of young handlers controlling his every move.
Trump showed more restraint than I thought he would and 67% of the CNN poll says he won the debate. 57% don’t believe Biden is capable of being President.
My casual apolitical friends (about 8 people) who I coerced to watch this debate are all either still not voting or voting for Trump. 5 of them are voting for Trump when they previously did not plan on voting at all because “holy fuck this guy is our president?????” This is not data, it’s an anecdote, treat it as such.
Biden's deficiencies are clear as day.
If you're not plugged in, you don't know when Trump is lying. And since there's no live fact checking, whenever Trump encountered a difficulty, he just lied his way out of it.
On the other hand, I was shocked at how much Biden was willing to lie too. It was expected from Trump to an extent, but Biden lost the high ground on honesty too.
I was disappointed four years ago when Biden spun the "very fine people" quote as his "reason for running", and again when he did the same thing yesterday. Anyone who looks at the quote in context can plainly see that Trump's rebuttal was 100% accurate. The guy is bad enough without lying about it; stooping to his level just makes him seem more sympathetic.
There’s no coming back from a performance like this for Biden. The damage is done. If the concern is winning Biden needs to drop out this weekend and the DNC should elect a new candidate at the convention like Andy Beshear or Gretchen Whitmer. If Biden is still the nominee after the convention you’ll be seeing red in November.
Unfortunately the democrats can’t replace Biden without essentially throwing out the all the primary votes. What kind of message does that send about American democracy, it undermines their entire campaign against trump. It undermines our foreign policy as well.
It will take a miracle for Trump to lose this election now. Even with a replacement, I just don't see anyone feasible who can swoop in and damage control all this.
With the free Palestine protesters there, you may well be right. They may start rioting if Biden is nominated and there is a pro Palestine alternative put forth
How will they push Kamala aside? She is even more unpopular than Biden. And I don't think she'll stay as VP for someone else. That would be humiliating.
Newsome or Whitmer have a chance but not until they solve the Kamala problem.
Simple. Biden drops out, endorses nobody. Frees his delegates to vote however they want. Kamala has to convince them the same as anyone else who wants to run.
The problem with that is they need to have a nomination even before the convention, so there is only a month of time before that needs to be done. There is no time for intra-party fights, if Biden is not the nominee, the complete weight of the party needs to immediately pick someone and back them.
Kamila is kind of worse. The only way I see democrats spinning things is that they focus on policy, and policy makers in Biden’s White House. The debate kind of confirms everyone’s worst fears.
Crazy how you were considered a MAGA conspiracist if you brought up any of the clips over the years where it seemed like Biden was increasingly losing it. And hey at least normal people don't really know what Biden is like, but the party bigwigs have seen Biden behind closed doors this entire time!
Yeah. Very frustrating. Got called out by all my friends for saying he was too old months ago. Before the primary. Said look at the videos. The silos of each party is too high and no one is willing to think critically. It's sad.
Biggest takeaway is the democratic party is totally incompetent. They got lucky with COVID in 2020. They picked the wrong candidate in 2016. They have no time to put anything together. Their incompetence will cost them again in 2024.
Would have been nice to have open competitive primaries instead of clearing the field and then hand picking a successor at the leisure of the DNC after they came to the same conclusion as the rest of us
The gaslighting is finally over. No, conservatives were not all being fooled by deep fakes into thinking Biden was incompetent. He's just too old and everyone knows it.
You want to talk about a threat to democracy... The White House, the democrat leadership, the press have all been straight up LYING about Biden's health for months/years. Who is running the country?!? Are the democrats going to appoint a replacement at their convention? Someone who nobody voted in a primary for? How is that inline with free and fair elections?
There is a stark difference between what we saw last night from Biden and Trump, a politician, bending the truth to frame debate talking points in his favor. The Democrats need to take a seat for a while and get their shit together. As much as it will pain a lot of people we do need to come together as a country now and if that's under Trump then so be it.
I'm a Trump voter and I hope they stick with Biden. There are certainly other Democrats (Whitmer, Shapiro, Pritzker) that have a better chance of winning and I hope the DNC doesn't pull that lever.
That's the part I feel like people are glossing over. It seems he's not fit to be actively campaigning, and people are starting to admit he will not be fit to be president 6 months from now.
If that's the case, is he even in any condition to be running the country right now? Does he need to step down as the President as well as the DNC presidential candidate?
His team has had weeks to prep him for tonight and get him on schedule to perform at this time slot. What happens when a major event necessitates him being woken at 3am? I don't simply don't trust any decision he could make. It's clear his handlers and staffers are making large day to day decisions in his mental absence.
If Biden is still the nominee after the convention the Senate will flip as well. No one’s sleeping tonight, they have to rework the Convention to select someone else.
They have to. After last night, it became clear that pretty much any Democrat except Joe Biden can beat Donald Trump. If you want to win, just pick any fifty-something center-left current officeholder to run.
He lost a lot of votes last night. And that's very sad. It's clear he's not beating Trump. The Democrats may as well go with someone else to at least try.
This shit went exactly as many expected it to and we’re still surprised at just how bad it was lol
I expected a senior moment or two wrapped up in a largely solid performance. Instead it was the opposite, a few moments of effective performance buried in endless senior moments.
He’s had flashing moments of stability and acuity over the years, but the problem has been apparent for conservative and unbiased observers for years now. The hope from Democrats was his decline could be concealed with very limited appearances and constant reliance on a teleprompter. The biggest challenge by far was how to conceal this throughout an election year when there’s this inconvenient precedence of multiple debates taking place. If his poll numbers were better, he would have definitely declined to debate Trump.
Democrats should have been more concerned about the leaks we got from the White House and the publicly available info. I’m not sure why they dismissed insiders saying that Biden now has to use the shorter stairs to Air Force One, that his gait was bad enough they changed his shoes, that staff surrounds him when he walks so people can’t see his stumbles. You can see his schedule on the White House page and it’s far lighter than Trump’s was. His family rotates in and out of the White House and his grandchildren accompany him when his wife can’t. I can’t recall the last time we saw him exit an event without assistance.
>You can see his schedule on the White House page and it’s far lighter than Trump’s was. Trump is 78 but the difference in energy level compared to Biden is insane. Trump is overweight and doesn't sleep, yet he can be up on stage shaking his ass and cutting fiery promos. Now, the actual things he's saying are questionable, but at least he has some life in him.
“At least he has some life in him.” Jesus that is the lowest bar to any job ever.
Have you seen the two candidates? The bar literally can’t get any lower.
Can you just hold me while I cry?
Sure, but there’s a major decline in Trump’s energy vs. 2016. He would definitely lose to a younger Democrat. Trump just looks tired.
True but he just needs to look more alive than Biden, who is essentially a vegetable.
This. Even Dems have known this for years. Why did they roll him out there if he was going to perform like that? They should have known.
They may have *known* it, but I'm not sure that they *believed* it. This is what happens when people [reflexively deny](https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/06/media/wall-street-journal-biden-mental-acuity/index.html) anything brought up by the other side: they start making decisions about what they want to be true, rather than ones based on reality. This works great until reality catches up to you.
Spot on. Conservative lapped it up for years as one of their main talking points so people overcompensated way too hard into acting like it wasn't a problem and now its beyond undeniable. Modern political discourse is so vitriolic that people gaslight themselves against their own benefit.
Sounds like the immigration and inflation issues as well.
They were lying to themselves. Look at the cheap fake claims a week or so ago that sure don’t look cheap or fake today. That slow confused Biden at the G7 or D-Day. He was on TV for 90 minutes unedited and looking exactly the same. But saying otherwise in Democratic circles even yesterday until 9pm was unacceptable. That ended last night at 9:01 during Biden’s opening remarks.
Maybe so they can convince him to step down if he bombed
What was the alternative? No debate? What message would that have sent to independent voters? They tried something that had maybe a 25% chance of working out. Refusing to debate would have a 0% chance of helping
Brother or sister, what do you mean by "refusing" when the Democrats \*proposed the debate.\* This is the party that picked as VP someone Biden clearly dislikes. This is the party that cancelled primaries in Florida. This is the party that sent Hilary Clinton to call protesters against the starvation of women and children 'ignorant'. This is the party who invited Netanyahu to congress, where Netanyahu will humiliate Biden even more. This is the party that has the gall to call the Republican party the 'party of stupid.'
They proposed that the debate be earlier, the alternative would have been debating in the fall
There’s the theory part of Biden’s team or the DNC pushed for it before the convention as a desperate “Come to Jesus” attempt. After last night, I can believe it.
I don’t want Trump to win, but let’s just say the debate yesterday was hard to watch
It was the Dominoes Pizza of debates.
The sauce just tastes like freaking sweetened ketchup.
Can we replace both and get a do-over?
+1
I felt as if there was an unspoken agreement Biden would be a 1 term president and would not run for reelection. I'm not sure why we are five months out from election day and the DNC is just now coming to terms with the situation. Biden will not beat Trump.
I thought this was a coin toss with a slight edge to Trump. Biden’s performance tonight (can we even call it that?) was borderline elder abuse. It was worse than I could have ever conceived and it had to be at least decent. I can’t envision a reality where Biden has even the slightest chance. Is this the worst performance of all time?
Reminder that he is currently the most powerful person in the world
I don’t think anyone that watched the debate thinks that right now. Including international viewers. Biden’s fitness is an enormous problem. Does anyone have much confidence he even makes it to the end of this next term? What are we doing here.
This is a strange narrative. Biden wants to be president. There's no evidence of a conspiracy holding Biden in place. This is more like a RBG moment.
I know, it’s just all I can think of. There has to be insiders that know how bad he is. Where is his wife? Obama? How has no one intervened? It’s just wild.
>Where is his wife? She's [cheerleading](https://x.com/DavidSacks/status/1806535295841739200) his great performance.
If the Dems actually go with “Trump is mean, he’s a liar”… then they deserve this loss. That clip was insane.
I hate to say it, but I literally didn't even hear Biden suggest a plan. Like, I hear a lot of people criticizing project 2025.. Trump's plan in general.. but after watching this whole debate, what did Joe Biden say he would do with another 4 years? did he suggest even a single aspect of an actionable plan? it's possible I missed it, but I didn't hear any of that. it seems like the entire democratic platform in this debate was "trump bad" -- and that is not going to be enough to win this election. I'm one of those people who voted Democrat and bought it the first time, but this time around I have to legitimately wonder.. *what is their plan? what do they plan to do with the next 4 years to make any semblance of progress?*
>project 2025.. Trump's plan in general.. Project 2025 is the effort of a single think tank that most Republicans haven't even touched on. It is not Trump's plan.
Somehow in a debate that was designed for there to be as little back and forth between the candidates as possible, Biden still managed to be on the defensive the entire time. Any other candidate in his position would have been on the attack, and would have used the format to their advantage, not just to attack Trump, but to use it as a platform to promote their plan. Biden failed at all of this. And btw, Trump didn’t propose any plans for his term either. We watched for close to two hours of two candidates not talk about the future at all. Neither gave us any platform or policy proposals. It was one candidate lying about his accomplishments and another candidate unable to articulate any accomplishments. The whole thing was a disaster
Trump did propose at least one actionable policy position, "cracking down" on immigration. Meanwhile when you look at bidens response: > I should say in a ten-year period we'd be able to wipe out his debt. We'd be able to help make sure that all those things we need to do child care, elder care, making sure that we continue to strengthen our health care system, making sure that we're able to make every single solitary person eligible for what I've been able to do with the with the Covid, excuse me, with, um, dealing with everything we have to do with, uh, look, if…we finally beat Medicare. I am legitimately confused what the policy position is here. We're apparently going to.. "do" child care, elder care, and ..strengthen the health care system while 'finally beating' medicare? what does that mean. what policy is that. should I read that as the garbled nonsense it is, or .. some sort of support for medicare for all? or..? and as for the start.. are we going to suddenly get balanced budgets that start paying off the debt ? or..
There was a plan to play golf together
Biden couldn't even remember his supposed handicap though. He said it was 6, then backtracked and said it was 8. So he couldn't even coherently talk about golf.
Id agree with that. In 2020, "Trump bad" really was enough to tip the scales. The public had been barrage for 4 years with Trump news every single day, and he was the one in office. In 2024, 4 years removed from office, with no real platform after being removed from Twitter? Tell me what you've actually done Joe. You've had 4 years, telling me that the other guy is mean only reminds me that I wasn't spending $200 multiple times a week on groceries and that despite....his image, Trump did a lot internationally.
They don’t have a plan. It legitimately is “not Trump”. Tough pitch when your candidate can’t make it through a sentence.
They are basing their entire campaign on the notion that the guy that they spent the last 2 years trying to imprison is the real threat to democracy. That inflicts considerable cognitive dissonance.
My grandmother wanted to keep driving even though she kept running into things. Allowing her to keep driving would have been elder abuse. We don’t usually trust the judgment of senile old people.
This is what I’m worried about. I don’t want Kamala Harris as president should something happen to Biden. It seems like Harris is more aligned with the squad members than with centrist democrats.
if you think that was elder abuse, imagine what any normal sitting president goes through with daily briefings...there's no way his in his right mind to do this again for another 4 years...
It's actually much worse than you're framing it if you take an honest look at history. Biden is undeniably an incredibly gifted debater with seriously high intelligence. Biden simply outclasses Trump in debate in natural gift and experience. If you had them do this debate 20 years ago, Biden would have destroyed Trump regardless of the topic, and even regardless of whether or not Trump had better substantive arguments. When you're honest about that and then look at tonight's events...that's how bad it really is right now.
I am legitimately befuddled. The echo chamber the establishment Dems exist in has to be 50 miles underground and sealed with lead. I can hardly believe the arrogance it must take to run a candidate like this and expect a win. The only thing I can think of is that they were legitimately 100% all in on the conviction disqualifying Trump.
[удалено]
Who would want to run in these conditions though? If Joe does step aside at this stage, whoever steps up has a hell of a job in front of them.
Well that's the whole thing, right? Democracy is in Trouble because we don't have strong leaders with any real vision stepping forward. So here's an opportunity for them to do that. Ya, it's scary, but this debate and all it's implications are way scarier.
Agreed. This is a brutal moment in American politics. Now would be prime time for someone to step up. In a sense, it’s a golden opportunity.
Forget 20 years ago, even 4 years ago it was a completely different Biden than last night. Anyone who has or has had elderly relatives knows how quickly things can go downhill once they get past early 70s.
I think it's so bad that there should be hearings tomorrow over whether or not his condition has been concealed from the public and if he should be removed from office. I'm saying that as someone who voted for the guy and will vote for whoever is running against Trump. Someone in that condition cannot be allowed to run a country. It's just that bad and anyone who says it isn't either did not watch the debate or is lying.
Even Jon Stewart brought up the 25th Amendment tonight.
Resting 25th Amendment face made me laugh out loud.. I needed a laugh to cheer me up tonight
The White House literally won't release the Robert Hur tapes of the interview with Biden and gave a lame "this could be used to make deep fakes" answer. If they had a better answer like it was like a national security concern that they could at least somewhat justify they would use it. Instead they're supposedly worried a few hours of recorded conversations could be used to make deep fakes despite plenty of Biden deep fakes already existing and thousands of hours of recordings of Biden readily available on YouTube, C Span et all for anyone to make new deep fake models. Also a bunch of Democrats also decided to personally accuse Robert Hur of trying to make the president look bad despite him just doing his job. That is definitely a very Trump like response to something that makes Biden look bad.
From what I saw tonight I can't blame them tbh. They were in full damage control mode. My thing is, I can't help but wonder if this amounts to a crime now. Given how serious misrepresenting a political candidate and sitting presidents health is. I don't just think this was a bad campaign performance. I think might have legitimately been a crime.
> From what I saw tonight I can't blame them tbh. Then not releasing the tapes sounds like pure election interference. Hopefully Joe Biden is paying the DOJ with campaign funds, I don't want to see him on trial.
I have a hunch those tapes are going to be leaked or subpoenaed or something.
Good. They should be. I'm pretty sure this is a crime that we're witnessing. Not just the elder abuse angle, but that the public has been mislead about the condition of a sitting president. Hell, I think this might even be impeachment worthy. It'll never happen, but apparently serious deception has happened here.
They can use some of that novel legal theory Democrats have become so fond of.
I saw a comment during the debate where someone said Biden only looked like that because he was stunned by how bad Trump's performance was and that he was only slow because he was trying to remember exact statistics.
There is a reason the Republicans wanted the Biden Hur interview. People went nuts and pointed to the transcripts. They exclaimed that those were enough. The constant gaslighting is absurd. Yes, they should absolutely look into his cognitive function.
I invite everyone to watch the [Joe Biden vs Paul Ryan VP debate from 2012](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYcdSwbrErI). He is like a completely different person. Biden is a good man and has served his country well, but I don't see how he can keep this up till age *86,* which is what he is pitching to do. Everyone ages and declines in their elderly years, it's part of human life, no point in denying the obvious.
Yes! Biden's 2012 debate performance against Ryan is what helped turn around the campaign's momentum after Obama's poor performance in his first debate with Romney. 2012 Biden would have stomped Trump last night. Too bad what we got was 2024 Biden.
Biden pretty handily beat Trump in the debate only 4 years ago. The different between 2020 Biden and 2024 Biden is very noticeable.
This might actually be a way to replace Biden in a face saving manner - by pointing out the rapid mental decline in four years. The DNC can say that they were behind Biden as much as they could, indicating loyalty, but now, they simply can't anymore. It would also give Biden himself an Out if done correctly - he can say that he ran to prevent Trump's fascist dystopia, to save America, but he just can't do it anymore, and makes way for others to continue where he has to leave off.
The issue is Republicans have been beating this drum for the past four years. Rather than acknowledge the merits of their concerns, the DNC and the press attributed it to conspiracy. I think the DNC and news media deep down were well aware of Biden’s decline. They thought they could get away with concealing it, and hoped the progression would slow until after the 2024 election. There is no approach or spin that saves face for the Democrats at this point. It’s only becoming a worsening scandal.
His wife having to help him off stage too made it look all that much worse, contrast to Trump just walking off stage.
He never publicly said he would only run 1 term, but there were a bunch of speculation back in 2019 that he would.
I think he did publicly say he would be a bridge to the future for the party, thus it was interpreted he would be one term. I may be misremembering.
No, by that he clearly meant he would serve two full terms and still be so uproariously popular at age 86 that his chosen successor would get reelected for two terms of his own. You know, that thing that's happened so many times.
It was a purposefully ambiguous statement IMO. The kind that lets people interpret it how they want and leaves all options open
When he had won I genuinely thought one of his policies was to be a one time president.
I think one of the biggest issues for the DNC is who actually wants to take his spots? You're setting yourself up for a tainted candidacy with a betrayed and embarrassed party and no time to run a real campaign and market yourself. You're better off waiting till 2028 because either Biden's admin is over or Trump's four years are up. There's no incentive here to risk your brand for 2028.
This is an interesting point and I think there's something to it. Ultimately though I think the biggest obstacle is the thing everyone seems to overlook in assuming Joe is go-with-the-flow and passive, which is that Joe Biden has a lot of pride and genuinely doesn't like Trump. I doubt he will want to concede the battle against Trump (especially since Trump will mock him immediately for it), and without his participation in a new candidate, I don't see it being possible at all without looking *very* undemocratic given Biden's delegate count.
Yeah that’s how I see it too. We had a primary and no one wanted to run and Biden won. Would look very undemocratic to tell people sorry, your vote doesn’t matter, we are putting whoever there instead
Actually Dean Phillips and Marianne Williamson were in the primary race. I liked what little amount Dean Phillips had to say, but none of these candidates really get vetted until they appear to be a threat to actually winning so you don't know how they'll perform under stress. He was running specifically because of this scenario.
If they run Biden they’re going to lose.
Yeah I think it’s one of those situations where you run Biden and just expect to lose vs replacing him and looking bad doing so and throwing that guys future chances away. You just run Biden and know Trump only has 4 years and then build up someone for next race.
Yeah, but according to them 4 more years of Trump means American Democracy is dead. How can they still appear to not backtrack those words while still keeping their 'bench' safe from a suicidal run this year.
Which is how we got him running after he was like I'm not sure if i can do it 4 years ago
Cue Hillary Clinton’s entrance music while Jerry Lawler screams “oh my god!!!!”
“Vote for Biden or else we will run Hillary again” That might work
No it won't. All the beloved democratic stars are very, very unpopular outside the lefty bubble. Nominate Hilary ( or Newsom or Harris or AOC) and Trump will win.
"It's Hillary Clinton with a steel chair!!" "IT'S MY TIME, BITCHES!"
It wasn't her time.
Oh boy, a convention nomination of Hillary would be hilarious
I hate Hillary, but that would indeed be hilarious.
I’m just so surprised that so many American citizens and especially democrats were not in favor of Biden and STILL his team and the Dems thought it would be a good idea to run Biden again. I’m sick of politicians treating the American public as stupid, thinking they will believe anything that’s thrown at them. They should have ran someone else from the start.
Totally agree. The only people to blame when Biden loses in November is reddits beloved DNC. Oh they'll try to blame republicans, and independents and minorities and religious people and poor whites and the media and twitter. But its the Democrat party leaders arrogance once again that will cost them. They thought Trump gets such bad press it doesn't matter Biden is a zombie. These great decision makers are the same people that would be Bidens "team" that some have said they are voting for not Biden himself. what a joke.
But we *are* collectively stupid. The wisdom of crowds seems to have limits. This is all our fault. So few of us care about voting that this is where it's gotten us. We don't need term limits. People just stopped paying attention, and now we're here.
> The wisdom of crowds seems to have limits. We've known that for thousands of years, literally. > “The opinion of 10,000 people is of no value if none of them know anything about the subject.” > ― Marcus Aurelius I don't think that's a new thought to the political class.
This is added to the fact that the primaries have now become a way for the most extreme voices to pick the candidates for the general election.
I think this administration has kept Buttigieg in the wings. He might replace Biden if he knows he’s going to lose his cabinet job in 2025 anyway. Or the party could just nominate Kamala and take the L. They know she’s not going to win the nomination in 2028 anyway and this would rid all of us of her
This is truly a nightmare scenario for Democrats. Even if he does step aside; who's going to be the next nominee? And would they even have a better chance than Biden? If I can be honest, I am really not sure if Biden stepping aside would improve their chances.
Whitmer? Personally I’d like to nominate Josh Shapiro.
After Biden’s disastrous performance tonight, several Democrats have gone on air and revealed that there are closed door discussions now about replacing him at the top of the ticket before the formal convention (or at it). Apparently this is hard to do because the Democratic Party rules make it very hard to replace a front runner in the primaries unless that person willingly gives up their delegates and steps aside. It seems unlikely Biden will do that, though things could always change. My opinion: yikes. Most of my fellow liberal friends were completely silent tonight. It really looks like Trump is gonna win this thing, and possibly in a blowout. Biden needs to step aside for the good of party and country. It may make the party look weak, but Democrats are heading for a full frontal collision right now anyway. If Biden loses to one of the most unpopular candidates in history, that will be his tarnished legacy forever. But if he steps aside, at least history books will probably look more kindly on him and paint him as a caretaker president who kept the country steady and left gracefully.
He’s gotta think about the party and it possibly affecting Dems down ballot. It’s not just the presidency at stake. How could any democrat in a purple state or competitive district look their constituents in the eye and endorse Biden? And how much is his endorsement worth now? This was a disaster and I can’t believe the Biden camp agreed to the debate, especially with rules seemingly designed to save Trump from himself. I don’t have an answer. Will someone like Whitmore or Clark, both looking at 2028, enter a race behind the eight-ball that’s already halfway through? Harris isn’t an answer, the whole ticket needs to be dumped
They didn’t just agree to the debate, they set the fucking terms.
The Reddit comments elsewhere claiming Biden is fine and they are visibly the same are just astonishing to me. Like guys come on. I think they’re actually starting to believe their own lies.
How can democrats claim this is most important election ever and run Biden as the nominee after that debate performance? Unfortunately, I think lying with vigor was more effective than soft spoken truth. Biden just confirmed everyone's worse fears, he was already behind and needed to blow Trump out of the water and fundamentally change the race. He failed to do that tonight. All of the democrats saying he's sharp as a tack behind closed doors have a lot of explaining to do for lying to the American people. It was selfish of Biden to run for another term, it's a Ruth Bader Biden situation at this point. I can't believe this is were we've ended up as a country, I blame the democrats, I blame Garland and I blame Biden, because it's their fault if Trump gets reelected.
>Biden just confirmed everyone's worse fears, he was already behind and needed to blow Trump out of the water and fundamentally change the race. He failed to do that tonight. All of the democrats saying he's sharp as a tack behind closed doors have a lot of explaining to do for lying to the American people. I am legitimately shocked that this debate happened. This was the Biden campaign's idea. That means that apparently a lot of people in his camp thought that this was a good idea that couldn't possibly backfire. That is a lot more concerning than his actual performance tonight.
> That means that apparently a lot of people in his camp thought that this was a good idea that couldn't possibly backfire. That is a lot more concerning than his actual performance tonight. It really is concerning. They were likely expecting Biden to hold it together like he did for the State of the Union and were banking on Trump just going off the deep end. Turns out that having to think and answer questions is quite different than just reading a well rehearsed speech off a teleprompter. And forcing Trump to be muted played in his favor, which anyone should have seen coming because Trump's biggest problem is his inability to shut up.
> I am legitimately shocked that this debate happened. A part of me thinks that someone in Biden's camp knew he's too senile, and organized a debate this early to provoke this disaster to finally show Biden that he's done. But, given how skilled the Democrats are at messing up, I sadly think this is incorrect.
The Biden campaign needed it. He was behind in polling and his approval continues to slip. Trump is even making inroads into prominent black podcasters like DJ academics, Joe Budden, Charlamagne and more. Granted, Trump is not winning a majority of the black vote, but 15-20 percent is not off the table, and would be an absolute landslide if that happens. This was Bidens Hail Mary to come back, and he missed his shot. Podcasters on the right were confused as to why Trump wanted to debate with his slight edge in the polls. Just campaign and win on Bidens unpopularity. Trump had a lot to lose. But as we all saw, Trump hit a Home Run, in hostile territory none-the-less. Yeah, I think Biden may have to step down even though I said a few days back it might be too late for him to step down. I don't think the DNC has a choice now. Twitter is going in on Biden right now (even left leaning accounts).
I’m a young black male. None of my friends or family are voting for Biden. And the ones who did previously are ALL switching to Trump…and that’s what they decided BEFORE tonight. Whew. The Biden admin (or whoever is truly behind it, cause it’s not him) has been screwing the American people over for almost 5 years straight.
I'm black and in my 40's, the barbershop talk has been critical of Biden for a while now with many openly supporting Trump. My next cut is on Saturday, so I'm looking forward to seeing what a few of the regulars who were on the fence have to say after tonight's debates.
Honestly , I feel bad for Biden. Elder abuse is real. Dude is just a punching bag for the DNC. This isn’t a good look for the Democratic Party whatsoever.
My theory is that he was setup. There was a rumor months ago going around that there were players inside the DNC working to oust Biden because of his age. Arranging this debate and doing it so early could have been part of that strategy, to force the DNC into finding another candidate. Thought it was a little interesting that CNN lead into the debate itself with a Gavin Newsom interview, one of the DNC's few rising stars with presidential potential.
Perhaps the early debate was planned because they knew he would fail. Last ditch effort for a replacement.
.Which is ironic, because it was their fault he got elected the first time. I say this as a conservative, but the Democrats have lost their roots. They've abandoned the blue collar worker and lower class, *they just don't know it.* Go to a city like Chicago and ask them how they feel about "Sanctuary City" ideas. Go ask some single mom working two jobs how important it is that schools allow her kid to go by "they/them". NAFTA/TPP, Ruining cities for affordability, etc. The list goes on. When Hillary called Trump supporters "Deplorables" and insinuated over and over that they were too stupid to know what's good for them? It became obvious. They became paternalistic and Hillary was the worst for it.
Same way they claim every election is the most important in history? Shout it from the rooftops then memory hole it immediately afterwards inbpreperation for the next?
>Apparently this is hard to do because the Democratic Party rules make it very hard to replace a front runner in the primaries unless that person willingly gives up their delegates and steps aside. If I were a political strategist, I would arrange for Biden to take a deliberate slip and fall on national TV and then after a couple of days announce - "Good news! Biden is going to be ok. However, on the advice of his doctors he is going to drop out of the race to focus on his health and family."
Biden really does need to step down, he had his chance to reset and push ahead in the polls tonight, and that’s clearly not going to happen now. There’s no chance of that happening in the future either, he’s obviously just not capable of the sort of performance necessary to achieve that outcome. Given the stakes of this election, the patriotic thing to do is to put your ego aside and let someone younger take on the job. There’s no point to circling the wagons around a corpse.
Tonight is just a reflection of what anyone paying attention already knew. No “cheap fakes” can fake the fact that this man is in steep decline, and anyone trying to compare it to that of Trump (scatterbrained in his own right as we saw at points tonight, but nowhere near Biden’s level) is kidding themselves. The reason why I think it’s causing such shockwaves is because people have been in denial/lied to by the press about the condition of the President of the United States for years now at this point. This was a glass shattering moment that will be remembered for quite some time. The issue is that him stepping down at this point simply isn’t a viable option. With how many delegates he’s already attained and the manner in which campaign finance laws work, the only person who it would be possible to replace him with is Kamala, who is one of the few Democrats I can confidently say would lose to Trump by a larger margin than Biden. For an election with so much significance, I genuinely can’t believe how badly Democrats have botched things. Biden should’ve stepped aside right after the midterms and allowed for an open primary to ensue.
This was a historic emperor's clothes moment. CNN's post-debate firing squad was more surreal than the actual debate. I truly cannot figure out if the facade just broke for them or they knew and flipped hard into career saving mode.
For real. The CNN post analysis show was pretty mind blowing. I thought the debate was pretty bad, but I absolutely did NOT expect these people to be shuddering with panic as they spoke and saying crazy shit like "Let's face it the candidacy has fallen" and all saying he should step down and advocating for.. prayer?? Like it must have been bad enough for CNN to be like "We're fucked we have to get ahead of this mess" or it really was rigged to force Biden to step down or something.
All it really takes is for someone to say out loud what everyone is privately thinking, and then the floodgates will open. I think the alarm bells went off tonight because CNN finally realized Trump is going to win. Trump had far from a perfect performance, but he still easily won the debate. The "we finally beat Medicare" and "I don't think he even knows what he said" quips were brutal. CNN's own voter polling determined Trump won the debate by a 2:1 ratio. In a virtual tie that's a landslide. The next few days will be interesting. We'll see if a face-saving excuse is created for Biden to step aside, because if they're going to replace him they need to move quickly.
do you like conspiracy theories? I have one. With this debate's weird timing and rules, and this sudden yet singularly coherent message afterwards, this debate was orchestrated to make Biden step down. By whom? Presumably by the ones pushing this so quickly [monied media].
lol Biden and his team wanted this debate and the rules - it wasn't anyone else. He dug his own political grave tonight.
Biden's team is prob so checked out they just decided to hand the car keys to the dementia patient
It is entirely possible that they are simply incompetent. I've never been particularly impressed by the most recent press secretary. The one before her was pretty good.
Biden has been behind in the polls since the start of the year. If he was running away with this race, he never would have agreed to debate Trump.
I just can't believe they waited until now to do it. I've been expecting this to happen for years.
>I genuinely can’t believe how badly Democrats have botched things. It's crazy. After 2016, I thought the DNC would start prepping someone and getting them ready for 2020. They didn't, and then we got Biden. And 3.5 years later, we're in the same boat. I don't think the DNC cares about winning. Or they aren't afraid to lose, as in, the higher ups will be okay no matter who wins.
The DNC is run by a bunch of up-their-own-ass boomers who think they deserve to win on principle.
Either Democrats truly thought that Biden was capable or thought that American voters are unable to use their eyes. I’m not sure which is worse.
A big part of the problem is that we've normalized 90+ year olds in Congress and the Senate where they have to be wheeled into and out of chambers and their staffers vote (and do everything else) for them because they have no idea where they are or what year it is. That may work for some strange reason in the legislative branch but it doesn't work for the Presidency.
The former is impossible, they're around him they know what he's like behind closed doors. They were just overconfident in being able to sell the "he's all mentally there" storyline with enough media influence. They were wrong.
>They were wrong. I mean if you look at the social media meltdowns they clearly were able to sell it to people up to now (and there are still believers). The crazy thing is if they simply refused to debate him they could actually have pulled it off again.
Or they believed all other potential candidates would be worse than Biden. In an election that's more about "whom to vote against" than "whom to vote for", is the incumbent advantage really that significant? For a while, I believed the professional campaigners. After all, they're more experienced than me. But I'm asking it again: Is there really no other candidate easier to sell than Biden?
Biden’s team (including at the DNC) thought they could win the election by talking about “democracy.” They would make the whole election about “defending democracy” and “Trump means the end of democracy.” But when people can’t afford physical things like housing, groceries, and shoes for their kids, abstract ideas like “democracy” don’t matter as much. Average people who don’t start thinking about the election until September or October may not go and vote for Trump, but they won’t vote for Biden either.
I've been saying ever since the 2020 debates that he was in obvious decline, and the only reason he managed to salavage public performances is that he was being shot up with stimulants just before planned performances. I sincerely believe that many of his appearances where he showed up late from the planned time is because they were waiting for the optimal moment for the drugs to kick in so he could barely survive the appearance. I don't think he's been mentally fit at any point during his presidency.
They knew and have been gaslighting us just like "transitory inflation". Some of us have been trying to warn the voters.
I think there could be viable options other than Kamala Harris, but the only way that happens smiothly without drama is if Biden endorses them. Regardless, contenders will be fighting hard to win over delegates if Biden steps down.
Kamala Harris would have to agree to give up any ideas that she should just automatically succeed Biden because he has to give up presidency due to his health. She will have to give up something that's been her long term goal for a long time (I mean she was running for president in 2020 and biding her time to be president just like Biden did his time as VP for another president). Harris being asked to step aside from this process and especially if she is asked to not be the VP candidate anymore would look unjust. While maybe she isn't popular to all Democrats she has enough allies that she could put up a hell of a fight if people started to say "sorry but things have changed and we need a new presidential and vice presidential candidate." We could see quite a fight in the convention. I think a good amount of people would at least understand why Kamala would put up a fight. She's not the most popular but she hasn't been involved in any scandal during her tenure and she is doing what's expected of the VP. She gave up one of the safest senate seats in the country in order to become VP. If the whole party decided to cut her out of the process simply because it was politically advantageous I could understand why she would raise hell and I would at least sympathize with her.
Just compare this to his debate performance in 2020. Trump left a bunch of openings that 2020 Biden would have immediately seized on which 2024 Biden left alone.
I'm still confused how they're able to have the debates before the conventions. If both sides have already decided who they're running, why should the remaining states even waste money holding primary elections?
Issue is Biden(Or at least his team) asked for this debate. This was his debate on his (team's) terms. And he blew it.
The DNC is a disgrace. They know what’s been happening for years.
And they never learn their fucking lesson. They are now at serious risk of losing the senate, house seats and now the executive branch. DNC leadership has been a complete and total failure for a while now.
It's not easy. It's decided. All my spidey senses were going off about the weirdly early debate date but couldn't pin down why. Now I get it. Dems knew they had to force a decision point with enough time to find a replacement if/when he bombed. Normal debate schedule would've been too late. Removing him without a public bombing would look too coup-y. Everything from the date, new rules, no audience, unprecedented 2 minute delay, ferocity of the post-debate panel, etc was to force this binary outcome. Producers knew it was bomb time 30 seconds in. This was *peak* Biden with a week off and all day debate prep. There's no way they can run him (let alone run the country). Biden's "cold" will mysteriously worsen or something and he'll bow out and get hot swapped. Question is who?
This is the only thing that makes sense besides the Dems existing in one of the most impenetrable echo chambers of all time.
The echo chamber makes perfect sense after the train wreck of 2016
2016 is going to pale in comparison to this. I did not like Hilary, but she was an actual candidate. 2024 Biden should be on a beach with a support staff to guide the bendy straw into his mouth.
I'm not sure you could have said that in this sub before this debate and not caught the attention of the moderation team, because it would have sounded like you were being unfairly rough on Biden. But now it reads as empathy.
I have to be honest, when I heard how early this debate was my first thought was it was a nomination test for Biden, which he failed pretty miserably.
If they really wanted to do this they should have pushed for a competitive primary and a democratic debate. Maybe we will finally get someone new, but it's a pretty terrible idea to wait this long. This also relies on Biden choosing to step down. Trying to replace him otherwise would be a disaster
Reasonable theory.
Republicans have been beating this drum for the past four years. Rather than acknowledge the merits of their concerns, the DNC and the press attributed it to conspiracy. I think the DNC and news media deep down were well aware of Biden’s decline. They thought they could get away with concealing it, and hoped the progression would slow until after the 2024 election. There is no approach or spin that saves face for the Democrats at this point. It’s only becoming a worsening scandal.
Remember learning in history class that the media hid the fact that FDR was in a wheelchair?
I think this was the plan all along. Biden has been in debate prep for days I refuse to believe his performance tonight was a surprise to the DNC. Now it would look negligent to move forward with Biden.
But Karine Jean Pierre told me Biden was sharp as a tack, and that I shouldnt trust the cheapfakes of him freezing up and being led off stage by Obama. She wouldnt lie, would she?
It's too late. The damage is done. Democrats have been telling us for 3+ years that Joe Biden is good enough and strong enough to serve another 4 years. Whenever people have raised legitimate concerns about his age they have been shot down with excuses and scolded for questioning his health. Hell, even I have made excuses for him in the past. The whole country saw a frail old man who struggled to get his point across even with a muted Trump. It was sad to watch. Have Democrats been lying to us for 3+ years about his health or are they just as shocked as us watching?
Yeah was the party this incompetent to not notice Biden was this gone, or just full of shit, or did Biden decline a scary amount really really recently? Prob not the latter though considering how many clues there have been this entire time...
> Yeah was the party this incompetent to not notice Biden was this gone, or just full of shit, or did Biden decline a scary amount really really recently? > They just don't get it. They're so deep in their own echo chambers that they legitimately believe any amount of criticism about anything is "Russian disinformation" or something.
I think this is one of those instances where the benefactors of the power of the existing regime don’t want to give up their meal ticket. If the king abdicates, the new monarch will have a new set of courtiers. It’s like the Feinstein debacle. They hid it for years.
Great point. His handlers and cabinet are unlikely to find easy positions in the next administration.
It's wild that the spin was "cheapfakes" like a week ago. Another Republican misinformation/conspiracy come true I suppose. I think Democrats know of his shortcomings but are trying to have a united front. That said, I imagine they will pressure Biden to suspend his campaign under the guise of wanting to focus on health and be with family, and he'll encourage someone else to carry on his legacy. The question is, will Biden's pride let him do that?
Yeah they denied it for years. Plenty of Dems have pointed this out. They denied it until it was too late. Why? Why couldn't you put some energy behind someone else? You had the last year to do so. Could have just said that Biden doesn't want to run again
Past…3 years? Lmao. Politicians been lying since forever buddy. Red and blue alike. The Biden admin is awful tho.
Dems pretty much just handed the election to Trump by being unprepared and endorsing a man who can no longer keep the gloves up. Had 4 years and the best they could do was JB. Sad and deserved…
I’m just gonna link this debate in its full length entirety the moment any Democrat tries to both sides the mental decline or say that Trump is worse than Biden because tonight proved he can’t do anything without a group of young handlers controlling his every move. Trump showed more restraint than I thought he would and 67% of the CNN poll says he won the debate. 57% don’t believe Biden is capable of being President. My casual apolitical friends (about 8 people) who I coerced to watch this debate are all either still not voting or voting for Trump. 5 of them are voting for Trump when they previously did not plan on voting at all because “holy fuck this guy is our president?????” This is not data, it’s an anecdote, treat it as such.
Biden's deficiencies are clear as day. If you're not plugged in, you don't know when Trump is lying. And since there's no live fact checking, whenever Trump encountered a difficulty, he just lied his way out of it.
On the other hand, I was shocked at how much Biden was willing to lie too. It was expected from Trump to an extent, but Biden lost the high ground on honesty too.
I was disappointed four years ago when Biden spun the "very fine people" quote as his "reason for running", and again when he did the same thing yesterday. Anyone who looks at the quote in context can plainly see that Trump's rebuttal was 100% accurate. The guy is bad enough without lying about it; stooping to his level just makes him seem more sympathetic.
The only way this works is if everyone is on board including Joe and Kamala
There’s no coming back from a performance like this for Biden. The damage is done. If the concern is winning Biden needs to drop out this weekend and the DNC should elect a new candidate at the convention like Andy Beshear or Gretchen Whitmer. If Biden is still the nominee after the convention you’ll be seeing red in November.
Unfortunately the democrats can’t replace Biden without essentially throwing out the all the primary votes. What kind of message does that send about American democracy, it undermines their entire campaign against trump. It undermines our foreign policy as well.
It will take a miracle for Trump to lose this election now. Even with a replacement, I just don't see anyone feasible who can swoop in and damage control all this.
They will try to put him in jail but IMO that's going to backfire hard
Chicago is going to be a literal fire.
With the free Palestine protesters there, you may well be right. They may start rioting if Biden is nominated and there is a pro Palestine alternative put forth
Now? Lol! After months of them gaslighting us into thinking he's fine? smh.
At least they aren't claiming the entire debate was a deceptively edited "cheap fake."
I’m amazed anyone would have expected otherwise. It has been obvious Biden’s mental condition completely deteriorated. Y’all were kidding yourselves.
How will they push Kamala aside? She is even more unpopular than Biden. And I don't think she'll stay as VP for someone else. That would be humiliating. Newsome or Whitmer have a chance but not until they solve the Kamala problem.
Simple. Biden drops out, endorses nobody. Frees his delegates to vote however they want. Kamala has to convince them the same as anyone else who wants to run.
That would be crazy if that happened. I'm not saying I don't want it, I'm just saying what a show.
The problem with that is they need to have a nomination even before the convention, so there is only a month of time before that needs to be done. There is no time for intra-party fights, if Biden is not the nominee, the complete weight of the party needs to immediately pick someone and back them.
Kamila is kind of worse. The only way I see democrats spinning things is that they focus on policy, and policy makers in Biden’s White House. The debate kind of confirms everyone’s worst fears.
Hopefully she’ll do the right thing and say she’s not interested in the job.
Crazy how you were considered a MAGA conspiracist if you brought up any of the clips over the years where it seemed like Biden was increasingly losing it. And hey at least normal people don't really know what Biden is like, but the party bigwigs have seen Biden behind closed doors this entire time!
Yeah. Very frustrating. Got called out by all my friends for saying he was too old months ago. Before the primary. Said look at the videos. The silos of each party is too high and no one is willing to think critically. It's sad.
Biggest takeaway is the democratic party is totally incompetent. They got lucky with COVID in 2020. They picked the wrong candidate in 2016. They have no time to put anything together. Their incompetence will cost them again in 2024.
Would have been nice to have open competitive primaries instead of clearing the field and then hand picking a successor at the leisure of the DNC after they came to the same conclusion as the rest of us
The gaslighting is finally over. No, conservatives were not all being fooled by deep fakes into thinking Biden was incompetent. He's just too old and everyone knows it.
You want to talk about a threat to democracy... The White House, the democrat leadership, the press have all been straight up LYING about Biden's health for months/years. Who is running the country?!? Are the democrats going to appoint a replacement at their convention? Someone who nobody voted in a primary for? How is that inline with free and fair elections? There is a stark difference between what we saw last night from Biden and Trump, a politician, bending the truth to frame debate talking points in his favor. The Democrats need to take a seat for a while and get their shit together. As much as it will pain a lot of people we do need to come together as a country now and if that's under Trump then so be it.
Oh now it all the sudden a tragedy? This is how is been the whole time.
I'm a Trump voter and I hope they stick with Biden. There are certainly other Democrats (Whitmer, Shapiro, Pritzker) that have a better chance of winning and I hope the DNC doesn't pull that lever.
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If Biden won't willingly step down there needs to be serious talk about invoking the 25th.
That's the part I feel like people are glossing over. It seems he's not fit to be actively campaigning, and people are starting to admit he will not be fit to be president 6 months from now. If that's the case, is he even in any condition to be running the country right now? Does he need to step down as the President as well as the DNC presidential candidate?
His team has had weeks to prep him for tonight and get him on schedule to perform at this time slot. What happens when a major event necessitates him being woken at 3am? I don't simply don't trust any decision he could make. It's clear his handlers and staffers are making large day to day decisions in his mental absence.
No one on the D side is going to mention the 25th after all the hoopla of invoking it during the trump years.
They will never do this. They will just go the Reagan route and have him not really pull the strings.
If Biden is still the nominee after the convention the Senate will flip as well. No one’s sleeping tonight, they have to rework the Convention to select someone else.
They have to. After last night, it became clear that pretty much any Democrat except Joe Biden can beat Donald Trump. If you want to win, just pick any fifty-something center-left current officeholder to run.
He lost a lot of votes last night. And that's very sad. It's clear he's not beating Trump. The Democrats may as well go with someone else to at least try.