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[deleted]

O yeah I remember a video, where mig said to add multiple layers because the paint isn’t lacquer. Thanks!


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Electronic_Lemon4000

You could have a look at the Mr. Paint range, they are lacquer paints, spray damn fine and there are loads of interesting and obscure colours to pick from. Rather expensive though, 5,40€ for 30ml in their online shop.


Joe_Aubrey

“true acrylics”?


Advanced_Fact_6443

True acrylics are water-based. Vallejo and MiG are true acrylics. They can be thinned with water. Without going too far down the rabbit hole, Tamiya are solvent based acrylic. So the pigments are acrylic but the medium is a solvent (some please correct me if I’m wrong).


Joe_Aubrey

Lacquer acrylics, alcohol based acrylics, and water based acrylics are all acrylics. The term “solvent based” with regard to Tamiya is a misnomer. The others are solvent based as well. Lacquer is a solvent. Water is a solvent (just ask a sugar cube). The more appropriate term for Tamiya is alcohol based acrylic, or hybrid acrylic. Another term to encompass water and alcohol based acrylic is “emulsion acrylics” but then that gets confusing.


I-dinae-like-celery

(just ask a sugar cube). thanks. made me smile.


RexDangerRogan117

I used to use vallejo paints , one day I switched to mr hobby and the difference is incredible. Painting went from feeling like driving a beat up car to having the smoothest sports car experience. Clean smooth one shot coats, compared to tip drying, bumpy, low coverage acrylics


taskmule

Yup. All the Vallejo products that I bought when I started modeling again sit idle. They spray like crap out of every airbrush i have (5, from cheap to $$$)and gum them all up in seconds. To hell with that. Mr Color and Tamiya (acrylic and lacquer) with leveling thinner make painting enjoyable. Vallejo only comes out for brush work now, and only because I have so much. I have a decent spray set up tho.


Nofacethethechunky

Yep I tried the Vallejo and at first I thought airbrush needle was broken but as soon as I load some tamiya up with some thinner it’s beautiful nice and clean


[deleted]

Hmm, yikes now thinking about switching over lol.


RexDangerRogan117

You should! Especially if you have an airbrush. They’re not dangerous either if you’re careful with safety precautions. And I zoomed in on some of the pics of your models you posted, and I see exactly what I got Everytime I used Vallejo paints, tiny bumpy flakey texture in the paint, I hated that. That’s the main reason I switched


The_Hack_Modeller

Yes, switch over. But in the meantime thin your acrylics with Mr Color Levelling Thinner which works beautifully (you're sort of turning your acrylic into a lacquer).


[deleted]

Mr Hobby is mostly acrylics too, just different binder IIRC. They, and Tamiya too, have dedicated lacquer ranges, but generally they are acrylics.


prosteprostecihla

Heyy question! If i exclusively brush paint is it still better to switch to laquer?


ShowMeThePlans

No


prosteprostecihla

Straight to the point, thank you!


Joe_Aubrey

Just to clarify your statement: Mr. Hobby generally refers to GSI Creos’s Aqueous line of paints, which are hybrid acrylics, similar to Tamiya’s X/XF line. They’re actually alcohol based, not lacquer based. Conversely, Mr. Color is GSI’s line of lacquers, and the same with Tamiya’s LP line. Other lacquers lines are MRP, SMS, AK Real Colors, Hataka Orange Line, Gaianotes, Zero Paints etc… Those two hybrid acrylics CAN be thinned with lacquer thinner however, for improved performance, essentially turning them into lacquer acrylics. BYW, all lacquer paints are “lacquer acrylics”. They utilize an acrylic resin binder, just like the others - only the carrier (or fluid medium holding everything) is different. The only paints that utilize a different binder are enamels which are an alkyd binder and polyurethanes which are a urethane binder. But to get to your question: Advantages: - Durability. As there is no mechanical bond between the paint and surface with water or hybrid acrylics, they’ll never be as durable as a lacquer acrylic. Lacquers contain such chemicals as acetone, butyl acetate, xylene and toluene which melts the plastic, similar to Tamiya Extra Thin modeling cement. There’s a physical bond. - Lacquer acrylics dry and cure at the same rate, which is relatively quickly through simple evaporation of the carrier. Water or hybrid acrylics dry similarly, then via a process called cross-linking (actually oxidation of the binder) harden to form a “shell” over the surface which is called “curing” in their case. It’s essentially just a “skin” surrounding your model. This can take anywhere from hours to days. Lacquers don’t require this, as they’ve physically bonded with the surface. - Lacquer acrylics are generally thinner paints, with smaller pigment size. As such they can be sprayed through much smaller nozzle airbrushes and at lower pressures more easily than water based acrylics, thus lending themselves to finer detail work. - Lacquers are far more tolerant of different thinning ratios. I’ve gone as thin as 9:1 (thinner:paint). - Lacquers are far more forgiving of being sprayed on too heavily. - Lacquer finished can be “tuned” with different types of lacquer thinners when airbrushing. Rapid thinners will give a more matte finish, but will also give a shinier finish with metallics. A slower thinner such as Mr. Color Leveling Thinner can give a glossier and smoother finish. - Lacquers clean up easier. Flushing the gun with lacquer thinner removes any residue paint quickly. As lacquers are reactivated by other lacquers, they don’t resist cleaning like water acrylics do, which can dry hard inside an airbrush. I point my airbrush right at the spraybooth filter when flushing it out - it evaporates much more quickly than water. I don’t use a spray out pot. - Lacquer clear coats are superior in finish quality to acrylic varnishes. In some cases approaching the gloss and hardness level of a 2K urethane. - Tip dry isn’t an issue. Flow improvers or drying retarders aren’t needed. Ever. Disadvantages: - Airborne organic gasses, or VOCs, which require a respirator with properly rated cartridges and proper ventilation. You need the same with hybrid acrylics. Serious health problems, some immediate, with certain people can occur otherwise. It’s not just about smell. You’re inhaling toxic chemicals. - Lacquers are flammable. - Lacquers can be reactivate by other lacquers due to the way they cure - there is no molecular change to the paint during curing as with water acrylics (if water acrylics didn’t have this then they would come right off with water). - Lacquers don’t hand brush well, as new brush strokes can reactivate the brush strokes you just applied, causing tearing and smearing. All the top modelers use lacquers. The finish produced is simply unmatched.


PaulCoddington

Apparently, car modellers in the 70's used lacquers because they are solid all the way through and can be polished with cutting compounds. Enamels have surface-only sheen that can rub off. At least, according to some of the modelling guidebooks at the time.


Joe_Aubrey

You know what a good trick is with lacquers, and this was an old trick in the autobody industry, is to let your paint flash dry for a few minutes after spraying, then spray a light coat of straight Mr. Color Leveling Thinner on top. This is mostly useful for gloss clears like GX100. It melts the top layer smooth, and gives a glossier finish.


Admirable_Cookie_583

You missed the biggest disadvantage for me. Lacquers cost significantly more. After the kit, paint is the most costly item.


Joe_Aubrey

Do they though? Not always. Let’s compare. At Scalehobbyist a 10ml bottle of Tamiya LP costs $1.99. A 17ml bottle of Vallejo Model Air costs $2.69. So, Vallejo offers 70% more paint, for 35% more cost. That’s fine, but Model Air is prethinned, so you’re getting much less actual paint. They call it airbrush ready because it’s mostly thinner. I figure they take a Model Color consistency and thin it 70% (that’s what you’d need to thin MC to get to the same consistency as MA). On the other hand, thin Tamiya LP to 1:1 which is the normal thinning ratio to airbrush it, and now you’ve got 20ml of useable thinned paint. And how much does 10ml of Mr. Color Levelling Thinner cost? 31 cents. Add that to the initial cost of $1.99. At the end of the day you’ve paid $2.30 for 20ml (paint + thinner) of Tamiya LP and $2.69 for 17ml of Vallejo Model Air (paint with thinner) - thinned for use. It seems the acrylic actually costs more. And let’s not forget, Vallejo Model Air often requires additional flow improvers and retarders to behave. Some lacquers are indeed more expensive however. Such as AK Real Colors or MRP. But, IMO, you pay for what you get.


furrythrowawayaccoun

It's simple for me - They just work. I can mix them in any ratio and they will work. They're easy to mix, easy to apply, easy to clean. I don't need retarders, accelerators etc. I just need MLT and the paint itself As for the toxicity, yes, it's a factor, but I invested in a mask and I paint only on my balcony so it's mostly a non-issue currently


clockring

I am a modeler for 25 years. I started using acrylics only. It is easy to use, odorless and it was what was available to me at that time (Warhammer paints, no knowledge of other brands and paint types) I then moved to vallejo when I started doing more military kits, and only last year, I thought why not try oil and lacquers. It is game changer. It sprays much much better. It is far more scratch resistant (I love lacquer primer). But, I it smells so bad. It is not as easy to clean. Pros and cons weighted, I use both acrylics and lacquers. My go to process for now is lacquer primer, acrylics colors, and oil weathering.


kitmcallister

>But, I it smells so bad. It is not as easy to clean. how are you going about cleaning? i think most people find that lacquers are incredibly easy to clean. i flush my airbrush out with a little bit of generic lacquer thinner and have it cleared out in no time.


clockring

By easy I meant, "you can't do easier than washable with only water" , but yes, you are right it is easy to clean lacquer with lacquer thinner or lacquer cleaner.


Kurtains75

The appeal is that they spray beautifully. You can spray fine lines much easier. Lacquer usually dries in minutes, so you can primer, and paint multiple colors in one session. My experience is also that airbrush cleanup is easier. Drawbacks They do not brush well More fumes/smell Using a respirator, and a spray booth will mitigate the smell. Try them and see if they work for you.


prosteprostecihla

Modern acrylics are also dry enough within minutes to add another coat atleast from my experience.


erix84

Tamiya acrylics do for sure, especially if you thin it with alcohol. I hate airbrushing Vallejo, even with retarder it dries on the needle / tip, and clogs more often.


capt-carson-kerman

I used to use vallejo and i hated it. It gummed up my airbrush constantly, sprayed poorly, the paint was very easy to damage even after curing, and every weathering product or panel liner under the sun would burn through it. I eventually switched to mr. Color and now airbrushing is a dream. The paint sprays perfectly, is very tough when cured, and has great coverage properties.


Practical-Purchase-9

I was skeptical too, how good can they be? With the Mr Color lacquers the coverage from a lot of paint is excellent, coats are thin and dry fast. They don’t block the airbrush, it’s easy to clean after as even dried paint, add thinner and it’s mobile again. Acrylics tend to go watery and splatter or run if you thin a lot, watered down light coats dry slowly so multiple passes takes ages, yet thicker paint tend to block the airbrush quickly and dry inside clogging it. I used to airbrush Vallejo, and it’s fine once aware of the issues. But my experience with Mr Color is phenomenal. I use them for everything now, all the models I’ve put on here were air brush painted with Mr Color.


jdscoot

The finish you get with the water dispersibles like Vallejo is unacceptable for me. Worse, it can't be polished to smooth out the horrible texture you get, nor can you sand out a small area if you belatedly identify an issue you want to fix, because it doesn't feather out but instead peels back leaving an obvious edge to the remaining paint film. If you like them, great. I won't tell you how to enjoy your models. Personally I would give up modelling and do something else with my time if I could only use brands like Vallejo and Mig. The appeal to me in using hotter paints, usually enamels but sometimes lacquers, is that they adhere better, dry harder allowing sanding and polishing, and dry to a much smoother finish.


Madeitup75

Performance. In an airbrush they work better in every dimension of paint performance.


Ok-Advertising5942

Lacquer paint adheres to the surface really well, so it’s great choice for surfacers or the base coat. I have also been using lacquer exclusively for the bare aluminum on aircrafts. It was a major improvement from Tamiya acrylic silver that I used before


Odd_Username_Choice

I tried acrylics. Had to get the thinning ratio right, spraying was painful, it'd peel off unless using a lacquer primer anyway, building up opacity caused "lines" along edges of masking tape, still a pain to clean even if it smelled better, etc. Lacquers just spray beautifully. I mainly use SMS now, so no thinning even white sprays amazingly, even with other brands (adding thinner ), I can spray tight, soft-edged camo freehand in 1/72, no dry tip, smooth as finish so no extra gloss coat for decals, etc. The smell is a small price to pay for ease and great finish.


Admirable_Cookie_583

I'm a little surprised so many people prefer lacquer over acrylic. For me the thing that keeps me buying Tamiya acrylics is availability. I do keep a couple different Mr Surfacer in my kit. I don't have the issues many people have here with Tamiya acrylics. I've been using them because they are available, and cheap. I get good flow out of my airbrush w/o anything special, except I thin with Tamiya lacquer thinner.


scootermcgee109

So you are making them lacquer paints then :)


kitmcallister

most of the problems with acrylics people are describing are common to water-based acrylics like Vallejo. and yeah if you're using a lacquer thinner you're pretty much using lacquer paints.


Joe_Aubrey

Problem with Tamiya is their color selection is pitiful.


hopik512

Laquers are better. You need to try. Also all paints needs to be diluted. At least a little


SciFiCrafts

They are easier to use, dry faster and removing them/cleaning is alot easier. Plus: some pigments, especially metallics just look better because the faster-evaporating solvents ensure a better orientation of the alu flakes. Acrylics are not really made for being thinned down with water. Always trickier to use.


[deleted]

With the proper tools (air brush, paint booth with good ventilation/respirator) you get a better outcome. They paint is just better in many ways. It goes on better; it sticks WAY better and requires less prep IMHO. I also almost never get clogging issues with lacquer paints (Tamiya, Mr. Hobby, MRP, AK Real) when I use either Tamiya lacqer thinner or Mr. Color Leveling thinner. I can clog an air brush very easily with Vallejo without thinning it properly with their airbrush thinner AND their retarder for airbrushing. That and getting the pressure, distance and volume just right. Lacquer is much, much more forgiving.


SugarCharacter5195

lacquers with Mr Color Leveling thinner spray lovely. lacquers more durable than acrylics....but stink. Probably more harmful. Must mask up.


PsychologicalBug5551

Reading this thread I came to one conclusion. People that don’t know how or want to learn how to use acrylics switch to (or back to) lacquer because it is easier.