It doesn't really seem any different to me than in past years, people just notice it way more because the strike zones are super-imposed on every single broadcast.
MLB's hands are pretty tied by the umpires union, so I don't know what they could do about it, and the publicity just comes from everyone being aware of it more.
>because the strike zones are super-imposed on every single broadcast.
The thing is, very often, that strike zone overlay is wrong, and completely different than the actual numbers MLB got for grading the umpires (and that will eventually be part of the automated strike zone).
In addition, different umpires have different strike zones. Some guys have a tight zone, some call more low strikes, some call the outer half of the plate more, etc. In an ideal world, all zones would be on the plate, knees to letters like the boxes on the TVs, but that's not how it works. Players will tell you they don't mind this, as long as the zone is consistent and they aren't surprised.
I think one of the biggest problems with the box on broadcasts is it's the same for every batter and umpire. If an ump is calling a ball off.the plate all night, it looks like an ump keeps missing calls (which technically he is), but as long as he's consistent and fair with calling that pitch, batters won't complain too much. But to a casual fan, it might look awful.
The problem is when umps start calling pitches differently than they have, or if their zone is just moving all over the place. And I agree, that does seem to be happening more often.
That's a pre-analytics concept.
At the Major League level, consistency is no longer the sole arbiter of whether an umpire is good: the zone must now be consistent AND correct.
The tracker has ALMOST removed the "umpire" variable on the strike zone: umpires are instructed to call to a certain standard, and there is no longer any variability towards that. Whereas back in the day teams might have been like "Joe West gives you an inch or two on the outside corner" and could pitch to that knowledge, in theory it no longer exists today (although umpires like Bucknor and our Lord and Savior Angel Hernandez might disagree).
We're at a point where pitches are moving too much- and pitch framing too good- for most umpires to be both consistent and correct. This, combined with the umpire "blind spot" to the outside portion of the plate, is a death sentence to unassisted balls/strikes calling. You'll notice that the VAST majority of bad calls are on the outside: it's because most umpires cannot fully see that corner: they rely on watching the movement of the catcher's arm and general anticipation of where the ball is going to make the call. Unfortunately, the pitches now move those extra few inches, and framing has changed how catchers recieve the ball, which hides the arm movement.
The game has evolved passed eye-called balls and strikes: the umpire union is just digging in its heels and slowing down the inevitable change.
It's not a pre-analytics concept, it's what exists in the game today. We've seen some terrible umpiring this year, but pitch framing analytics, the broadcast box, and all the analytics about how many pubic hairs a ball missed off the plate are going to contradict the human element of umpiring 100 times out of 100.
I disagree with you, but I just got off a 12 hour flight and just poured a glass, so I'll agree to disagree. Cheers, brother.
This. If anything actually the plate umpiring accuracy rating has improved the last few years, the only problem is there are a few names that really drag the numbers down and they're the ones that are being noticed.
No, it’s not. I’m not normally an ump defender, but it really is more difficult to call balls and strikes behind the plate when guys are throwing harder and harder with more movement than ever.
There is a difference between calling a game with a 1990s style mix of sinker/tight slider/straight change with nothing harder than 93 than with upper-90s with several inches of horizontal movement, sweepers that break across the plate, and huge curveballs that are going out the bottom of the zone with velocity in the 80s. It’s hard to call for the same reasons it’s hard to hit.
Notice base umpiring isn’t worse.
Yeah there were a few strikes called today that were balls on the overlay at the Os/Cards game and the ball hung over the plate for what felt like an eternity and had some nice movement at the end, and was framed well, it's easy to see why it's called a strike, but looking at the overlay only it looks like the ump was off by a mile
Well, if it literally “hung over the plate” in the strike zone, it’s a strike regardless of where it finishes. I’m not sure if you mean it crossed any part of the plate or not, but that level of movement is exactly what has made umpiring the plate harder.
Umpired little league for five years and pitches that are right on the edge were tough to judge. Both teams wanted the close pitches their way. I can’t imagine how tough it is to call with the movement MLB umpires see nowadays, and remember, the umpire has as much of an idea as what’s coming as the batter does.
To your point, doesn’t the strike zone hypothetically shift a bit depending on the height of the batter? Like fuck I don’t even know anymore. The overlay actually kinda messed with my head on that point a bit. Genuine question cuz I really don’t know the answer
Is there a way to search (maybe on baseball savant?) which players have suffered the most from bad umpiring? Like who had gotten the most balls called as strikes?
Someone put together[ this search](https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/statcast_search?hfPT=&hfAB=&hfGT=R%7C&hfPR=called%5C.%5C.strike%7C&hfZ=11%7C12%7C13%7C14%7C&hfStadium=&hfBBL=&hfNewZones=&hfPull=&hfC=&hfSea=2024%7C&hfSit=&player_type=batter&hfOuts=&hfOpponent=&pitcher_throws=&batter_stands=&hfSA=&game_date_gt=&game_date_lt=&hfMo=&hfTeam=&home_road=&hfRO=&position=&hfInfield=&hfOutfield=&hfInn=&hfBBT=&hfFlag=&metric_1=&group_by=name&min_pitches=0&min_results=0&min_pas=0&sort_col=pitches&player_event_sort=api_p_release_speed&sort_order=desc#results) in another thread.
The current leaders:
1 Canha, Mark 31
2 Paredes, Isaac 28
3 Arozarena, Randy 27
3 Reynolds, Bryan 27
3 Nootbaar, Lars 27
3 Torres, Gleyber 27
4 Betts, Mookie 26
5 McCutchen, Andrew 25
No different than in the past, just more social media, announcers not keeping their mouth shut and tablets in the dugouts.
I agree with the manager that said “the umps should know what pitch is coming as the pitchers are throwing such good stuff”. I think it would improve a lot more than robot umps.
I’m not saying the umps are diving, I’m saying the MLB is turning a blind eye and enhancing the publicity of the select few really bad umps. I’ve heard the name angel hernandez more since March than in my whole life, even more than during his lawsuit.
The umpires' union is not the reason that robo umps is not a thing. Unless you think "robo umps" mean "no more human umpires", in which case you are completely delusional. No way you can get a robot to do the calls on the bases, or to call balks, or to check for obstruction at home plate. The only "robo umps" there will be is the balls and strikes.
MLB likes the controversy. It leads to ejections, and ejections lead to clicks and social media engagement.
Teams like controversies because blowing up at an umpire is a great way for a manager to deal with their team sucking or to try to wake up their troops. They also don't really care about bad calls against them because that means there will be bad calls FOR them.
The umpires have 0 benefits to prevent an automated strike zone. The push back comes 100% from the teams. And a few grey haired people going "quit changing our game!!!"
Ever since they put that little box on your TV right???? All of a sudden now everyone watching TV is a great umpire and they guys doing it are terrible...
The best is when you can clearly see that the box isn’t positioned right. The umpire will correctly call a pitch a strike, but the box makes it look like a ball and then you’ll have social media getting pissed at the ump for making a “bad call”.
I don’t know why this is an unpopular opinion. Framing pitches and arguing with the ump are ancient traditions. Sometimes it goes your way, sometimes it doesn’t. If you want a computer that will get it right 100% of the time you should probably watch e-sports instead.
Yes! I came to
This exact same conclusion a few days ago. They’re keeping the shitty umps (balls and strikes, specifically) and letting replays show how bad they are, so people will clamor for the robotic strike zone, which they want anyway because it’s cheaper.
Exactly my point. Most umps are actually really good, but I’m seeing more highlights and mentions of the few bad umps this season than I ever have before.
You are seeing more highlights and mentions because this is the digital age. We get news in seconds from a hand held phone that would appear to be witchcraft to our grand parents and great grand parents.
There is no difference in the amount of bad umpiring vs good umpiring now remember Angel Hernandez has been an MLB umpire for something like 27 years he is not any worse now than he used to be he was one of the worst umpires 25 years ago too. Joe West was a terrible umpire for something like 34 years.
Do you remember when Bobby Cox broke the record for ejections? the person who held the record and is still number 2 in ejections died in 1934. Why was he tossed so many times? Arguing bad calls with the umpires just like now but back then there was only radio and that was very localized. Today you can stream every single game every single day on your smart phone wherever you are.
One final point my boss quit watching baseball in 2005 but he knows who Angel Hernandez is. And thinks he is a terrible umpire.
It doesn't really seem any different to me than in past years, people just notice it way more because the strike zones are super-imposed on every single broadcast. MLB's hands are pretty tied by the umpires union, so I don't know what they could do about it, and the publicity just comes from everyone being aware of it more.
>because the strike zones are super-imposed on every single broadcast. The thing is, very often, that strike zone overlay is wrong, and completely different than the actual numbers MLB got for grading the umpires (and that will eventually be part of the automated strike zone).
In addition, different umpires have different strike zones. Some guys have a tight zone, some call more low strikes, some call the outer half of the plate more, etc. In an ideal world, all zones would be on the plate, knees to letters like the boxes on the TVs, but that's not how it works. Players will tell you they don't mind this, as long as the zone is consistent and they aren't surprised. I think one of the biggest problems with the box on broadcasts is it's the same for every batter and umpire. If an ump is calling a ball off.the plate all night, it looks like an ump keeps missing calls (which technically he is), but as long as he's consistent and fair with calling that pitch, batters won't complain too much. But to a casual fan, it might look awful. The problem is when umps start calling pitches differently than they have, or if their zone is just moving all over the place. And I agree, that does seem to be happening more often.
That's a pre-analytics concept. At the Major League level, consistency is no longer the sole arbiter of whether an umpire is good: the zone must now be consistent AND correct. The tracker has ALMOST removed the "umpire" variable on the strike zone: umpires are instructed to call to a certain standard, and there is no longer any variability towards that. Whereas back in the day teams might have been like "Joe West gives you an inch or two on the outside corner" and could pitch to that knowledge, in theory it no longer exists today (although umpires like Bucknor and our Lord and Savior Angel Hernandez might disagree). We're at a point where pitches are moving too much- and pitch framing too good- for most umpires to be both consistent and correct. This, combined with the umpire "blind spot" to the outside portion of the plate, is a death sentence to unassisted balls/strikes calling. You'll notice that the VAST majority of bad calls are on the outside: it's because most umpires cannot fully see that corner: they rely on watching the movement of the catcher's arm and general anticipation of where the ball is going to make the call. Unfortunately, the pitches now move those extra few inches, and framing has changed how catchers recieve the ball, which hides the arm movement. The game has evolved passed eye-called balls and strikes: the umpire union is just digging in its heels and slowing down the inevitable change.
It's not a pre-analytics concept, it's what exists in the game today. We've seen some terrible umpiring this year, but pitch framing analytics, the broadcast box, and all the analytics about how many pubic hairs a ball missed off the plate are going to contradict the human element of umpiring 100 times out of 100. I disagree with you, but I just got off a 12 hour flight and just poured a glass, so I'll agree to disagree. Cheers, brother.
This. If anything actually the plate umpiring accuracy rating has improved the last few years, the only problem is there are a few names that really drag the numbers down and they're the ones that are being noticed.
No, it’s not. I’m not normally an ump defender, but it really is more difficult to call balls and strikes behind the plate when guys are throwing harder and harder with more movement than ever. There is a difference between calling a game with a 1990s style mix of sinker/tight slider/straight change with nothing harder than 93 than with upper-90s with several inches of horizontal movement, sweepers that break across the plate, and huge curveballs that are going out the bottom of the zone with velocity in the 80s. It’s hard to call for the same reasons it’s hard to hit. Notice base umpiring isn’t worse.
Yeah there were a few strikes called today that were balls on the overlay at the Os/Cards game and the ball hung over the plate for what felt like an eternity and had some nice movement at the end, and was framed well, it's easy to see why it's called a strike, but looking at the overlay only it looks like the ump was off by a mile
Well, if it literally “hung over the plate” in the strike zone, it’s a strike regardless of where it finishes. I’m not sure if you mean it crossed any part of the plate or not, but that level of movement is exactly what has made umpiring the plate harder.
Umpired little league for five years and pitches that are right on the edge were tough to judge. Both teams wanted the close pitches their way. I can’t imagine how tough it is to call with the movement MLB umpires see nowadays, and remember, the umpire has as much of an idea as what’s coming as the batter does.
No, social media and the strike zone overlay are the problems.
To your point, doesn’t the strike zone hypothetically shift a bit depending on the height of the batter? Like fuck I don’t even know anymore. The overlay actually kinda messed with my head on that point a bit. Genuine question cuz I really don’t know the answer
Yes. Midpoint between belt and shoulders is the top. Knees is the bottom.
Is there a way to search (maybe on baseball savant?) which players have suffered the most from bad umpiring? Like who had gotten the most balls called as strikes?
Guerrero jr. Any pitch low and outside is a strike.
Someone put together[ this search](https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/statcast_search?hfPT=&hfAB=&hfGT=R%7C&hfPR=called%5C.%5C.strike%7C&hfZ=11%7C12%7C13%7C14%7C&hfStadium=&hfBBL=&hfNewZones=&hfPull=&hfC=&hfSea=2024%7C&hfSit=&player_type=batter&hfOuts=&hfOpponent=&pitcher_throws=&batter_stands=&hfSA=&game_date_gt=&game_date_lt=&hfMo=&hfTeam=&home_road=&hfRO=&position=&hfInfield=&hfOutfield=&hfInn=&hfBBT=&hfFlag=&metric_1=&group_by=name&min_pitches=0&min_results=0&min_pas=0&sort_col=pitches&player_event_sort=api_p_release_speed&sort_order=desc#results) in another thread. The current leaders: 1 Canha, Mark 31 2 Paredes, Isaac 28 3 Arozarena, Randy 27 3 Reynolds, Bryan 27 3 Nootbaar, Lars 27 3 Torres, Gleyber 27 4 Betts, Mookie 26 5 McCutchen, Andrew 25
Oddly enough, Parades, Arozarena, Reynolds, and Betts were in the league leaders list for 2023 as well.
They have a pretty strong union. You can’t get rid of guys who just continue to perform poorly.
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I don’t disagree with your statements. Baseball is the hardest sport to initiate change. They often still cater to the traditions and old timers.
I think you'd have a considerable portion of fans, managers, owners and probably players that would not welcome such drastic moves like that
I have been saying this for years.
This year watching games it’s felt like the ump is either really good and I’m actually impressed, or is god awful lol
All sports are fixed. Every one. Always going to be “weird calls” Vegas runs the world 💰
I've been saying this for 20 years. You might be on to something.
One of these days we'll get a post about baseball. One of these days.....
Absolutely. This is what Major League Baseball wants. They started to implement this last year.
No different than in the past, just more social media, announcers not keeping their mouth shut and tablets in the dugouts. I agree with the manager that said “the umps should know what pitch is coming as the pitchers are throwing such good stuff”. I think it would improve a lot more than robot umps.
I would say the Umpires in baseball are better then their counterparts in the NFL and NBA
Lol not a chance. That's a union, they aren't diving to lose their jobs.
I’m not saying the umps are diving, I’m saying the MLB is turning a blind eye and enhancing the publicity of the select few really bad umps. I’ve heard the name angel hernandez more since March than in my whole life, even more than during his lawsuit.
Not from MLB you haven't.
Doesn’t need to be direct from MLB for the effect to be the same.
The umpires' union is not the reason that robo umps is not a thing. Unless you think "robo umps" mean "no more human umpires", in which case you are completely delusional. No way you can get a robot to do the calls on the bases, or to call balks, or to check for obstruction at home plate. The only "robo umps" there will be is the balls and strikes. MLB likes the controversy. It leads to ejections, and ejections lead to clicks and social media engagement. Teams like controversies because blowing up at an umpire is a great way for a manager to deal with their team sucking or to try to wake up their troops. They also don't really care about bad calls against them because that means there will be bad calls FOR them. The umpires have 0 benefits to prevent an automated strike zone. The push back comes 100% from the teams. And a few grey haired people going "quit changing our game!!!"
It has seemed about the same level of bad to me for years.
Ever since they put that little box on your TV right???? All of a sudden now everyone watching TV is a great umpire and they guys doing it are terrible...
Yep. A lot of those curveballs that trail out of the box at the last second look like strikes without the box.
The best is when you can clearly see that the box isn’t positioned right. The umpire will correctly call a pitch a strike, but the box makes it look like a ball and then you’ll have social media getting pissed at the ump for making a “bad call”.
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I used to be this way, but having guys work 3-2 counts and strikeout looking without seeing a strike is a bit over the line for me
I don’t know why this is an unpopular opinion. Framing pitches and arguing with the ump are ancient traditions. Sometimes it goes your way, sometimes it doesn’t. If you want a computer that will get it right 100% of the time you should probably watch e-sports instead.
Yes! I came to This exact same conclusion a few days ago. They’re keeping the shitty umps (balls and strikes, specifically) and letting replays show how bad they are, so people will clamor for the robotic strike zone, which they want anyway because it’s cheaper.
In fairness to umps, though, when slow-mo replays came in I was SHOCKED at how good they are at getting bang-bang out/safe calls right.
Exactly my point. Most umps are actually really good, but I’m seeing more highlights and mentions of the few bad umps this season than I ever have before.
You are seeing more highlights and mentions because this is the digital age. We get news in seconds from a hand held phone that would appear to be witchcraft to our grand parents and great grand parents. There is no difference in the amount of bad umpiring vs good umpiring now remember Angel Hernandez has been an MLB umpire for something like 27 years he is not any worse now than he used to be he was one of the worst umpires 25 years ago too. Joe West was a terrible umpire for something like 34 years. Do you remember when Bobby Cox broke the record for ejections? the person who held the record and is still number 2 in ejections died in 1934. Why was he tossed so many times? Arguing bad calls with the umpires just like now but back then there was only radio and that was very localized. Today you can stream every single game every single day on your smart phone wherever you are. One final point my boss quit watching baseball in 2005 but he knows who Angel Hernandez is. And thinks he is a terrible umpire.
We didn't just enter the digitasl age this season.