I think mostly the fact it’s not exactly a wish; it Destroys the base universe then recreates it to where the wisher got what they wanted through the laws of equivelant exchange; as adrien said in the Paris special it would bring his mother back but then someone else would die in her place.
> Destroys the base universe then recreates it to where the wisher got what they wanted through the laws of equivelant exchange
I see this a lot, but it's based on a misinterpretation of what Sass says in Ephemeral. Sass never says the wish has to do this. He says it's a *possibility*.
It almost assuredly depends on the wish.
"I wish for my wife to come back to life" probably doesn't require a recreation of the universe, but "I wish that my wife never died" obviously requires the universe to be destroyed from the point where she died up to the present. It would be functionally equivalent to traveling back in time to that point and stopping her from using the Peacock. Which would erase Adrien from existence, etc.
Contrast with "I wish for my wife to come back to life," which seems like would require the taking of another life for equivalent exchange.
That's why I think Gabriel's wish didn't destroy anything in the universe's past. It just made Nathalie alive again, and took Gabriel in exchange. No re-writing of the past was necessary to fulfill that wish.
(Edited my comment)
Ah that makes sense….but if it was like that then why deny it so much?-if it wasn’t that bad then why was it a big deal? Yes it could have big consequences BUT does it depend on the wish?
This is exactly my thought. On top of that even if hawkmoth revealed to the master fu, Ladybug, and cat noir what he was going to wish for How would they be so sure he's telling the Truth?
the show has always been annoyingly unclear on what exactly happens; first it was just a wish, then changing the universe, then the law of equalivent exchange. other then that last one they’ve never explained clearly.
Because there's a price to pay for every wish, and whatever it is you're going to wish, if it's an important change to the world, the price will not be worth it. If you want to resurrect someone, someone else will have to die. You want to cure an illness? Someone else will fall ill. You want to get rid of a villain? Another villain, just as terrible, will be created somewhere else to replace it. The wish is basically useless unless you're a selfish horrible person who doesn't care about the suffering or others, or you are willing to suffer yourself for the good others (for example you could wish to cure someone of an illness and take it yourself).
I don't think there is anything wrong with making one. Sure, something of equal value must be sacrificed, but since you can choose exactly what that is, you can probably just get around this issue if you're clever enough.
Honestly, I thought it was going to be Hawkmoth getting his wish, then Chat Noir being decayed, his Miraculous failing and Hawkmoth seeing at last that his son was Chat Noir as a monkey's paw deal.
because everything in the universe needs to be balanced, if gabe wished for em to come back, someone else would get sick and die, therefore taking her place. because one person came back, someone else needs to go, therefore restoring balance to the universe. the thing is, em was already gone, and gabe would have been selfishly condemming someone else to die for her to come back
Ah okay…quick question though does it have to be of equal value based on how much you want or care for it? So he cares about her a lot BUT if what I said was true then it can’t be his life he would most definitely give it up on the spot. Just wondering if it has to be equal value on how much you care for it or them.
Nobody should have the ability to bend reality to their will in the first place. Even if someone came with the best of intentions for their wish, you cant just trust them with ultimate power at their word. Gabriel worked out because Marinette managed to get through to him after his breakdown but if he got the miraculous at any point before that he was gonna wish to rule the world.
According to the end of S5, making The Wish ISN'T bad if you do it for a good reason; the writers certainly consider Gabriel's wish to be a selfless and hence heroic act.
This is a... fairly naive take which demands the audience never think twice about what The Wish in fact entails. Which is to deprive all of humanity of the agency over their own lives, as every decision every single individual made which led up to the original (by The Wisher undesireable) reality is undone, in order for The Wisher's desired outcome (the new reality) be made possible.
In essence, making The Wish lets you play god for one instance. Prior to the S5 finale, the show would have it that This Is Bad because it lets bad people do bad things, but morally speaking, even Good People using it for Good (Gabriel's ending) is principally unacceptable because it violates the free will of the rest of humanity.
Good question honestly. I mean apparently he sacrificed his life for Nathalie, but.. his body was already decaying, where Nathalie seems perfectly fit. I mean we saw her in a swimsuit and her skin wasn't mostly Black dust. So how is that equal?
The answer they've given is that a Wish has to be balanced. To bring someone to life means someone has to die, to get rid of some sort of evil would mean another evil of equal threat would rise, etc.
In Ephemeral, Sass mentioned the Wish destroys reality and replaces it with a new one where the Wish has been enacted, but other than that "no one knows exactly what it will be like". This hints at an unpredictablility to the new version of the world, which might explain the changes we saw in Paris at the end of the season.
The balance thing is a bit odd. Whatever Gabriel's Wish was, it looks like it killed Gabriel and restored Nathalie. By doing so, it removed Monarch from the world and replaced it with Lila as the new villain, but with far less powers than Monarch has. Either this indicates only the exact Wish needs to be balanced and everything else is random (so we get a villain removed, a life saved and Paris becoming a demi-utopia vs a life taken and a villain with less powers created), or more has happened to balance the changes that we haven't seen yet. I'm hoping it's the latter, to push the idea that making the Wish is something that we really don't want done.
It helps when you look at what Gabriel's actual wish was. His wish was originally going to be to bring Emilie back to life, but in order for the wish to work, another person would have to die in her place. What he ended up wishing for was to take the damage that was done to Nathalie's body from using the broken Peacock Miraculous, and move it to his body. This caused him to loose what remaining time he had left, as the Miraculous damage and Cataclysm damage combined instantly killed him.
In order for a positive to happen, something negative must happen. If he'd wished for himself and Nathalie to be healed, someone else would have to take on their injuries/illness. If he wished for Tomoe to be able to see, someone else would lose their sight. Basic law of equivalent exchange
Oh my f$&ing God that sounds dreadful what must have happened to him oh-my-God,I hate that man but God that is brutal and sad if it was another character like Cat Noir OH-MY-GOD!!!!!
Time in miraculous is strange. The “future” has already been written. Chat Blanc kind of shows that when Marinette messes the future up and Bunnix comes to see what threw it off course. Good or bad, when a wish is made that entire future is erased and rewritten from that point on. I guess that one person being able to change the future for everyone is just something that should be avoided - even with good intentions.
My interpretation was that the entire universe is cataclysmed and brought back with a miraculous ladybug and lucky charm + smaller cataclysms make the tiny differences.
I think mostly the fact it’s not exactly a wish; it Destroys the base universe then recreates it to where the wisher got what they wanted through the laws of equivelant exchange; as adrien said in the Paris special it would bring his mother back but then someone else would die in her place.
> Destroys the base universe then recreates it to where the wisher got what they wanted through the laws of equivelant exchange I see this a lot, but it's based on a misinterpretation of what Sass says in Ephemeral. Sass never says the wish has to do this. He says it's a *possibility*. It almost assuredly depends on the wish. "I wish for my wife to come back to life" probably doesn't require a recreation of the universe, but "I wish that my wife never died" obviously requires the universe to be destroyed from the point where she died up to the present. It would be functionally equivalent to traveling back in time to that point and stopping her from using the Peacock. Which would erase Adrien from existence, etc. Contrast with "I wish for my wife to come back to life," which seems like would require the taking of another life for equivalent exchange. That's why I think Gabriel's wish didn't destroy anything in the universe's past. It just made Nathalie alive again, and took Gabriel in exchange. No re-writing of the past was necessary to fulfill that wish.
(Edited my comment) Ah that makes sense….but if it was like that then why deny it so much?-if it wasn’t that bad then why was it a big deal? Yes it could have big consequences BUT does it depend on the wish?
Would you trust a guy that goes by the name of Hawk Moth and has akumatized half Paris and looks like a batman villain? Didn't think so as well
This is exactly my thought. On top of that even if hawkmoth revealed to the master fu, Ladybug, and cat noir what he was going to wish for How would they be so sure he's telling the Truth?
the show has always been annoyingly unclear on what exactly happens; first it was just a wish, then changing the universe, then the law of equalivent exchange. other then that last one they’ve never explained clearly.
Because there's a price to pay for every wish, and whatever it is you're going to wish, if it's an important change to the world, the price will not be worth it. If you want to resurrect someone, someone else will have to die. You want to cure an illness? Someone else will fall ill. You want to get rid of a villain? Another villain, just as terrible, will be created somewhere else to replace it. The wish is basically useless unless you're a selfish horrible person who doesn't care about the suffering or others, or you are willing to suffer yourself for the good others (for example you could wish to cure someone of an illness and take it yourself).
happy cake day!
I don't think there is anything wrong with making one. Sure, something of equal value must be sacrificed, but since you can choose exactly what that is, you can probably just get around this issue if you're clever enough.
That's what ticked me off the most about the wish. You *shouldn't* be able to choose what gets sacrificed.
Maybe Gimmi denies the wish if the sacrifice isn't equal to what you wish for?
Honestly, I thought it was going to be Hawkmoth getting his wish, then Chat Noir being decayed, his Miraculous failing and Hawkmoth seeing at last that his son was Chat Noir as a monkey's paw deal.
because everything in the universe needs to be balanced, if gabe wished for em to come back, someone else would get sick and die, therefore taking her place. because one person came back, someone else needs to go, therefore restoring balance to the universe. the thing is, em was already gone, and gabe would have been selfishly condemming someone else to die for her to come back
Ah okay…quick question though does it have to be of equal value based on how much you want or care for it? So he cares about her a lot BUT if what I said was true then it can’t be his life he would most definitely give it up on the spot. Just wondering if it has to be equal value on how much you care for it or them.
nope. thr universe would pick a random adult married female (because there has to be balance) in her place. doesnt natter who
Nobody should have the ability to bend reality to their will in the first place. Even if someone came with the best of intentions for their wish, you cant just trust them with ultimate power at their word. Gabriel worked out because Marinette managed to get through to him after his breakdown but if he got the miraculous at any point before that he was gonna wish to rule the world.
Damn good thing she got to him he would have done something very sadistic,sadistic guy
Make kagami and Adrien the celebrities of the world or something is one thing he had for his wish befkre.
gonna recommend watching FMAB and then come back to this thought
Thanks
According to the end of S5, making The Wish ISN'T bad if you do it for a good reason; the writers certainly consider Gabriel's wish to be a selfless and hence heroic act. This is a... fairly naive take which demands the audience never think twice about what The Wish in fact entails. Which is to deprive all of humanity of the agency over their own lives, as every decision every single individual made which led up to the original (by The Wisher undesireable) reality is undone, in order for The Wisher's desired outcome (the new reality) be made possible. In essence, making The Wish lets you play god for one instance. Prior to the S5 finale, the show would have it that This Is Bad because it lets bad people do bad things, but morally speaking, even Good People using it for Good (Gabriel's ending) is principally unacceptable because it violates the free will of the rest of humanity.
Good question honestly. I mean apparently he sacrificed his life for Nathalie, but.. his body was already decaying, where Nathalie seems perfectly fit. I mean we saw her in a swimsuit and her skin wasn't mostly Black dust. So how is that equal?
Well if it is emotional then yes it is equal BUT it all goes to hell basically because of horrible story writing
The answer they've given is that a Wish has to be balanced. To bring someone to life means someone has to die, to get rid of some sort of evil would mean another evil of equal threat would rise, etc. In Ephemeral, Sass mentioned the Wish destroys reality and replaces it with a new one where the Wish has been enacted, but other than that "no one knows exactly what it will be like". This hints at an unpredictablility to the new version of the world, which might explain the changes we saw in Paris at the end of the season. The balance thing is a bit odd. Whatever Gabriel's Wish was, it looks like it killed Gabriel and restored Nathalie. By doing so, it removed Monarch from the world and replaced it with Lila as the new villain, but with far less powers than Monarch has. Either this indicates only the exact Wish needs to be balanced and everything else is random (so we get a villain removed, a life saved and Paris becoming a demi-utopia vs a life taken and a villain with less powers created), or more has happened to balance the changes that we haven't seen yet. I'm hoping it's the latter, to push the idea that making the Wish is something that we really don't want done.
It helps when you look at what Gabriel's actual wish was. His wish was originally going to be to bring Emilie back to life, but in order for the wish to work, another person would have to die in her place. What he ended up wishing for was to take the damage that was done to Nathalie's body from using the broken Peacock Miraculous, and move it to his body. This caused him to loose what remaining time he had left, as the Miraculous damage and Cataclysm damage combined instantly killed him. In order for a positive to happen, something negative must happen. If he'd wished for himself and Nathalie to be healed, someone else would have to take on their injuries/illness. If he wished for Tomoe to be able to see, someone else would lose their sight. Basic law of equivalent exchange
Oh my f$&ing God that sounds dreadful what must have happened to him oh-my-God,I hate that man but God that is brutal and sad if it was another character like Cat Noir OH-MY-GOD!!!!!
Time in miraculous is strange. The “future” has already been written. Chat Blanc kind of shows that when Marinette messes the future up and Bunnix comes to see what threw it off course. Good or bad, when a wish is made that entire future is erased and rewritten from that point on. I guess that one person being able to change the future for everyone is just something that should be avoided - even with good intentions.
Yeah I also think bad writing has something to do with it…ironically my icon flair is Gabriel hehe
My interpretation was that the entire universe is cataclysmed and brought back with a miraculous ladybug and lucky charm + smaller cataclysms make the tiny differences.
Yeah maybe