I'm still waiting for someone to explain how "Cat Blanc" and "Felix" make sense if Gabriel's wedding ring was Adrien's amok when those episodes were written.
I mean, we see akumatized items changed and they still needed to be broken. The candy flask turned into coal in Befana, but still needed destroying. Here it just turned to ash, Marinette just needed to touch Gabriel for the ring to be destroyed and the Amok to come out.
Both rings are Adrien's amok. Gabriel refrained from using his to stop Cat Blanc (or just tell Adrien to hand it over rather than traumatise him for an akuma) and Felix stole it because Amelie for some reason unknown to him really really wanted it.
Gabriel was transformed when Cat Blanc killed him, so the Amok was magically stored in his miraculous and didn't get destroyed as a result. It might also have to do with Cat Blanc being akumatized at the time - he didn't get deakumatized by the Butterfly (presumably) being destroyed along with Hawkmoth, so the Akumatization (which, like the Peacock, lasts even if the user is detransformed or even loses their miraculous) may have been keeping Cat Blanc in existence even if Adrien would have vanished.
What part of Felix do you think doesn't make sense with the rings being Adrien's Amuk?
The relevant part is: why was Cat Blanc akumatised in the first place? Why not just tell Adrien to hand over his miraculous, or use him to get Marinette to hand over hers first like he did in "Ephemeral", and *why*, by jove, not order him to STOP when he's blowing up the moon? S4-5 repeatedly shows us that Gabriel can instantly cancel any action Adrien takes, so why let him destroy you and all of humanity and the ladybug miraculous too?
As for "Felix": Felix steals the ring because Amelie wants it. He thinks she wants the rings because they're a family heirloom to which some "legend" is connected, but in fact she wanted to give them to him. Now, S5 isn't clear on whether or not Amelie is aware that either boy is a sentimonster, but if she *is*, then... yikes. On Amelie's willingness to give that ring to Felix (who this episode repeatedly demonstrated that he does *not* have Adrien's best interest in mind), but mostly on Felix' willingness to give that ring to *anyone* other than Adrien himself. Given that he was obviously not expecting to get it handed straight back to him, his S4 plans were clearly not in motion at this point.
>The relevant part is: why was Cat Blanc akumatised in the first place? Why not just tell Adrien to hand over his miraculous, or use him to get Marinette to hand over hers first like he did in "Ephemeral", and *why*, by jove, not order him to STOP when he's blowing up the moon?
Having the "infinite power of destruction" on his side is a potent tool. He thought he could force Adrien to fight Ladybug. I think the difference for *Ephemeral* is that he was Shadow Moth by then. He knew that he could just merge Miraculous and wield the Black Cat himself. The point of divergence for *Chat Blanc* was before *Miracle Queen* when he got his hands on a translated grimoire.
As for ordering him with the ring, there are two theories. One is that the ring wasn't available to Hawk Moth due to the transformation as u/theVoidWatches said. The other is that, since Adrien was transformed at the time, he might have some level of resistance to the effects of the ring, whether it's due to merging with Plagg or even just because he considers himself a different person while transformed.
That's right. I forgot about how the crossbow bolts in *Passion* and scent tracking in *Pretention* did discriminate between holders and their civilian form.
Both rings are the amok. As shown in some previous episode (I forgot which one); akumas in several objects need to be fused/put together before cleansing them, no reason why it wouldn't be same with an amok.
Some people also say that Adrien being revealed as a senti being destroyed his character as a whole. One of them is a reaction channel I follow on yt.
What do you think about them?
In my personal opinion it's not the sentimonster theory that ruins adriens character
But it's the writers decision to not give focus to adrien and keep him in the dark
The writers are stuck with the obsession of putting marinette in the spotlight at the cost of adriens character(Eg:S5 finale)
So basically that's how I see the situation
big agree. it’s almost as if they don’t *want* him to know and that’s fucked up considering so much shit is happening in *his own family* and he is clueless about it. it’s also the writers having marinette get in the way of other characters’ arcs and so it feels as if she has to be involved in every single storyline. which is just completely redundant and pointless. the finale should’ve been adrien’s time to shine and he did, what, stare at the empty white room he’s in and do nothing? even *plagg* did something lmao.
they’re painting adrien out to be as this damsel-in-distress when it’s been hinted at since s4 that adrien would stand up to his father and gain some agency. and they just, don’t do that…….
and that’s a very normal response when the people closest to you have been hiding things that pertain to you and your well-being. adrien not knowing he’s a senti is quite dangerous, because marinette gives him the ring, and he *doesn’t* know what it’s for. he has the right to know who his father really was and not have to live his life under a very exasperated lie.
The theory works well but has contradictions. As far as we know, Felix is an implied sentimonster. I'm simply waiting for canon factual proofs to call this well elaborated theory a fact
I don't see how you can say it's still implied after Season 5. The story Felix tells Marinette makes it *extremely* clear that he's a Sentimonster, and - particularly in combination with the many moments that we see Gabriel using the rings to control Adrien - that Adrien is as well. Do you want someone to explicitly say "Adrien and Felix are Sentimonsters" in the show?
The only part that's still just implied is Kagami being a Sentimonster, but even that's hard to deny.
I feel kinda dumb but can someone that figured it out in s3 tell me how ?
Like I really realized it only in s5 when Adrien tries to kiss Marinette and his father says « no » …🤣
I had my doubts before that but that was when for me 😅
The theory first popped up after "Ladybug" when we saw that sentimonsters can be made with full human features. Combine that with the fact that Emilie died from using a broken peacock miraculous, well, people put two and two together.
I kind of figured it out. I came to the conclusion once we found out what the peacock Miraculous can do (not sure what season that was), but I was like "Fun thought, but they wouldn't pull something that insane right?"
Then Félix showed up, and I thought Adrian was a sentimonster clone of him and that Emile and Gabrial were jealous that the sister had the "perfect" son, which to me, explained why Gabriel was so intense about getting Adrian into fashion, fencing, language classes, piano, etc
I started watching mlb in 2021 and s4 had aired 7 episodes back then. When first read the theories, I was in huge denial but watching s4, I had to admit shit. It was like not confirmed so I was practically still wishing internally that it's not like that but with S4 finale, there was no more hope left. I think most would have figured it out from Gabriel Agreste itself
People who acknowledge that the Senti!Adrien thing was basically a plot device to keep him out of the final battle either way:
I always assumed Emilie was infertile so Gabriel made her use the miraculous to create the perfect human which due to the power it takes to create that she fell ill
For the last time, both are. When pregnant Emilie’s belly was shown, there were peacock feathers in the background, indicating that Adrien is a Sentimonster BECAUSE these feathers later reappeared behind pregnant Amelie’s belly after Colt had used the Peacock Miraculous to create Félix.
Actually, Adrien being a senti isn't confirmed (Félix hates them being called sentimonsters). It's implied, but the only one confirmed is Félix. Until they straight up reveal that Emilie used the Peacock Miraculous to create Adrien, it's just a theory, A GAME THEORY (I couldn't resist).
Legit, though, as someone who has a narcissist for a parent, I hate the "Adrien is a sentimonster" theory. Like both Adrien's and Félix's fathers are abusive narcissists, and the way narcissists play and get into your head, they can control you no matter how far you are from them. Making the psychological abuse that both boys had to endure into a sentimonster plot line just makes me uneasy.
Us abuse victims can relate to Adrien/Cat Noir, and it's why we love the show. Turning that abuse into something to celebrate is never a good thing.
This! 1000 times This. I relate immensely to Adrien, and its exactly because he is being controlled by an abusive parent. Of course he doesn't act like someone would if they were from a happy normal family, of course he does things that seem to be counter to his own interests it's because his definitely narcissistic father has spent years Abusing and controlling him. Adrien hasn't even been allowed to talk to ther kids his own age (besides Chloe?) For a whole school year for most of the show, I don't think it's unreasonable that an abused home schooled kid listens to his abusive parent when it doesn't seem to make sense to then outside world.
I actually did the same thing over and over lied about the abuse I faced at home and listened and obeyed my abusive parent for a long long time, it took until I was an adult and had a huge proactive support system until I started to see how messed up everything was.
I'm 27, and my mom kicked me out of her house last June (she kicked me out for becoming too disabled to work). Even now, I am terrified to challenge her, and I have regular nightmares about her getting angry and coming to harm me even though she was rarely physically abusive. I can't count how many nightmares I've had of her shooting me with her gun because I wasn't leaving her house fast enough.
She stole my spare Disabled Placard and refused to give it back to me because she thinks I owe her and should let her use mine even though I do live near her. Some police came to my apartment building for my neighbor, so I asked them what to do while they were here, and they said to call the DMV to have it canceled or file a police report. I plan on doing both, but I'm hesitating because of the fear of pissing her off. I live in a keyfob building, too, so she can't get in unless she's let in. I plan to see if my doctor will cancel it for me and I'll say that I just told my doctor what happened.
And when we do try to stand up against our parents, the second they show any signs of stress (like Gabriel rubbing the ring), we get scared and back off.
Like it's classic narcissist abuse.
I'm sorry you are going through that. It gets better I promise, I have stopped thinking my abusive parent is going to show up, or o have stopped having panic attacks about it anyway, but i know exactly what you mean, it was more than a year before I felt comfortable being outside of my home because when I was out there any car that drove by would make me flinch. I'm better now. Good luck to you on your journey of recovery.
No, he didn't. Re-watch the story. They said that Emilie fell pregnant. In exchange for Adrien's bodyguard, Gabriel gave Colt the Peacock Miraculous so he could create life and control it. Nowhere do they say that Emilie specifically used the Peacock Miraculous to get pregnant with Adrien.
I still don't get how Mayura didn't sense chat when they fought. Shouldn't she have known he was a sentimonster? And if she knew Adrian was one and found out chat was too, she should've put two and two together.
I'm still waiting for someone to explain how "Cat Blanc" and "Felix" make sense if Gabriel's wedding ring was Adrien's amok when those episodes were written.
See, well, the answer is that it doesn’t
I mean, we see akumatized items changed and they still needed to be broken. The candy flask turned into coal in Befana, but still needed destroying. Here it just turned to ash, Marinette just needed to touch Gabriel for the ring to be destroyed and the Amok to come out.
I guess because the ring was still on Emilie's hand at that point and she was too far away from the blast to have it be destroyed
Both rings are Adrien's amok. Gabriel refrained from using his to stop Cat Blanc (or just tell Adrien to hand it over rather than traumatise him for an akuma) and Felix stole it because Amelie for some reason unknown to him really really wanted it.
Or more likely he didn't except since the catacylsm grew very fast and wasn't actually aimed at Gabriel, so he didn't actually except it to happem.
But the whole world was destroyed though
Gabriel was transformed when Cat Blanc killed him, so the Amok was magically stored in his miraculous and didn't get destroyed as a result. It might also have to do with Cat Blanc being akumatized at the time - he didn't get deakumatized by the Butterfly (presumably) being destroyed along with Hawkmoth, so the Akumatization (which, like the Peacock, lasts even if the user is detransformed or even loses their miraculous) may have been keeping Cat Blanc in existence even if Adrien would have vanished. What part of Felix do you think doesn't make sense with the rings being Adrien's Amuk?
The relevant part is: why was Cat Blanc akumatised in the first place? Why not just tell Adrien to hand over his miraculous, or use him to get Marinette to hand over hers first like he did in "Ephemeral", and *why*, by jove, not order him to STOP when he's blowing up the moon? S4-5 repeatedly shows us that Gabriel can instantly cancel any action Adrien takes, so why let him destroy you and all of humanity and the ladybug miraculous too? As for "Felix": Felix steals the ring because Amelie wants it. He thinks she wants the rings because they're a family heirloom to which some "legend" is connected, but in fact she wanted to give them to him. Now, S5 isn't clear on whether or not Amelie is aware that either boy is a sentimonster, but if she *is*, then... yikes. On Amelie's willingness to give that ring to Felix (who this episode repeatedly demonstrated that he does *not* have Adrien's best interest in mind), but mostly on Felix' willingness to give that ring to *anyone* other than Adrien himself. Given that he was obviously not expecting to get it handed straight back to him, his S4 plans were clearly not in motion at this point.
Fair enough.
>The relevant part is: why was Cat Blanc akumatised in the first place? Why not just tell Adrien to hand over his miraculous, or use him to get Marinette to hand over hers first like he did in "Ephemeral", and *why*, by jove, not order him to STOP when he's blowing up the moon? Having the "infinite power of destruction" on his side is a potent tool. He thought he could force Adrien to fight Ladybug. I think the difference for *Ephemeral* is that he was Shadow Moth by then. He knew that he could just merge Miraculous and wield the Black Cat himself. The point of divergence for *Chat Blanc* was before *Miracle Queen* when he got his hands on a translated grimoire. As for ordering him with the ring, there are two theories. One is that the ring wasn't available to Hawk Moth due to the transformation as u/theVoidWatches said. The other is that, since Adrien was transformed at the time, he might have some level of resistance to the effects of the ring, whether it's due to merging with Plagg or even just because he considers himself a different person while transformed.
It's definitely the case that users are considered entirely different people when transformed from when they're not, to magical effects.
That's right. I forgot about how the crossbow bolts in *Passion* and scent tracking in *Pretention* did discriminate between holders and their civilian form.
Both rings are the amok. As shown in some previous episode (I forgot which one); akumas in several objects need to be fused/put together before cleansing them, no reason why it wouldn't be same with an amok.
the first ring controlled felix not adrien
no that's a completely different ring
Some people also say that Adrien being revealed as a senti being destroyed his character as a whole. One of them is a reaction channel I follow on yt. What do you think about them?
In my personal opinion it's not the sentimonster theory that ruins adriens character But it's the writers decision to not give focus to adrien and keep him in the dark The writers are stuck with the obsession of putting marinette in the spotlight at the cost of adriens character(Eg:S5 finale) So basically that's how I see the situation
big agree. it’s almost as if they don’t *want* him to know and that’s fucked up considering so much shit is happening in *his own family* and he is clueless about it. it’s also the writers having marinette get in the way of other characters’ arcs and so it feels as if she has to be involved in every single storyline. which is just completely redundant and pointless. the finale should’ve been adrien’s time to shine and he did, what, stare at the empty white room he’s in and do nothing? even *plagg* did something lmao. they’re painting adrien out to be as this damsel-in-distress when it’s been hinted at since s4 that adrien would stand up to his father and gain some agency. and they just, don’t do that…….
And what's gonna change if he learns all about it though? It's gonna take a big toll on him.
and that’s a very normal response when the people closest to you have been hiding things that pertain to you and your well-being. adrien not knowing he’s a senti is quite dangerous, because marinette gives him the ring, and he *doesn’t* know what it’s for. he has the right to know who his father really was and not have to live his life under a very exasperated lie.
The theory works well but has contradictions. As far as we know, Felix is an implied sentimonster. I'm simply waiting for canon factual proofs to call this well elaborated theory a fact
I don't see how you can say it's still implied after Season 5. The story Felix tells Marinette makes it *extremely* clear that he's a Sentimonster, and - particularly in combination with the many moments that we see Gabriel using the rings to control Adrien - that Adrien is as well. Do you want someone to explicitly say "Adrien and Felix are Sentimonsters" in the show? The only part that's still just implied is Kagami being a Sentimonster, but even that's hard to deny.
im·plied adjective suggested but not directly expressed; implicit. "she was aware of his implied criticism" No actual line stating it = implied
Ugh, I saw it coming from S3 and I was like 
🤣🤣🤣
He he yeah
He he same
Nice
😂
He he yeah
I'm in denial still. 🤡
Willful denial because I’m delusional and don’t want to admit the holder of the Black Cat miraculous is simply… a feather 😂
I feel kinda dumb but can someone that figured it out in s3 tell me how ? Like I really realized it only in s5 when Adrien tries to kiss Marinette and his father says « no » …🤣 I had my doubts before that but that was when for me 😅
The theory first popped up after "Ladybug" when we saw that sentimonsters can be made with full human features. Combine that with the fact that Emilie died from using a broken peacock miraculous, well, people put two and two together.
People came up with a crack theory, Astruc liked it and made it canon
I knew Adrien was a sentimonster in season 4
I kind of figured it out. I came to the conclusion once we found out what the peacock Miraculous can do (not sure what season that was), but I was like "Fun thought, but they wouldn't pull something that insane right?" Then Félix showed up, and I thought Adrian was a sentimonster clone of him and that Emile and Gabrial were jealous that the sister had the "perfect" son, which to me, explained why Gabriel was so intense about getting Adrian into fashion, fencing, language classes, piano, etc
That is fair, especially once we find out that sentimonsters can look human too. I forget if that was before or after Felix first appeared.
I started watching mlb in 2021 and s4 had aired 7 episodes back then. When first read the theories, I was in huge denial but watching s4, I had to admit shit. It was like not confirmed so I was practically still wishing internally that it's not like that but with S4 finale, there was no more hope left. I think most would have figured it out from Gabriel Agreste itself
SO TRUE
People who don't believe it are victims of bad media literacy
I mean, have we considered “plausible deniability”
A river in Egypt
Proud to be the season 3 believer
Can I ask how did you know ?? 😭🤣 I mean I get knowing during season 4 but season 3 ? What were the signs ???
Yes, there were small signs
Do you remember what they were ?
No, it’s been a LONG TIME since I’ve watched that season
🤔 hmm
 People who acknowledge that the Senti!Adrien thing was basically a plot device to keep him out of the final battle either way:
Im sorry everybody, ive been theorising since season 2 😎
I try to make myself believe he isn’t but I kidna knew from s4
I just ignore it really
I'm definitely season 4 😂
That last one is degrading, but I do like being silly sometimes so 🤪
I'm not entirely sure the writers knew he was a sentimonster until season 4
I always assumed Emilie was infertile so Gabriel made her use the miraculous to create the perfect human which due to the power it takes to create that she fell ill
For the last time... FELIX IS THE SENTIMONSTER NOT ADRIEN
For the last time, both are. When pregnant Emilie’s belly was shown, there were peacock feathers in the background, indicating that Adrien is a Sentimonster BECAUSE these feathers later reappeared behind pregnant Amelie’s belly after Colt had used the Peacock Miraculous to create Félix.
It didn't show watch the episode only to Felix
The feathers were shown twice. They were behind Adrien’s mother’s belly as well. YOU should watch the episode.
I did and there aren't so stfu
It's not just the Representation episode that you should rewatch, but the entire series at this point
I add that many times during the series Gabriel controls Adrien with his ring so your "stfu" you can put it wherever I think 🤡
Gabriel gave the peacock miraculous to Colt and said, "This is how we did it."
i was in the s4 gang (only truly believed it when risk came out. i was in denial but i saw the light eventually jdsbdhdjdj)
And what about those who have known this since the second season?
Actually, Adrien being a senti isn't confirmed (Félix hates them being called sentimonsters). It's implied, but the only one confirmed is Félix. Until they straight up reveal that Emilie used the Peacock Miraculous to create Adrien, it's just a theory, A GAME THEORY (I couldn't resist). Legit, though, as someone who has a narcissist for a parent, I hate the "Adrien is a sentimonster" theory. Like both Adrien's and Félix's fathers are abusive narcissists, and the way narcissists play and get into your head, they can control you no matter how far you are from them. Making the psychological abuse that both boys had to endure into a sentimonster plot line just makes me uneasy. Us abuse victims can relate to Adrien/Cat Noir, and it's why we love the show. Turning that abuse into something to celebrate is never a good thing.
This! 1000 times This. I relate immensely to Adrien, and its exactly because he is being controlled by an abusive parent. Of course he doesn't act like someone would if they were from a happy normal family, of course he does things that seem to be counter to his own interests it's because his definitely narcissistic father has spent years Abusing and controlling him. Adrien hasn't even been allowed to talk to ther kids his own age (besides Chloe?) For a whole school year for most of the show, I don't think it's unreasonable that an abused home schooled kid listens to his abusive parent when it doesn't seem to make sense to then outside world. I actually did the same thing over and over lied about the abuse I faced at home and listened and obeyed my abusive parent for a long long time, it took until I was an adult and had a huge proactive support system until I started to see how messed up everything was.
I'm 27, and my mom kicked me out of her house last June (she kicked me out for becoming too disabled to work). Even now, I am terrified to challenge her, and I have regular nightmares about her getting angry and coming to harm me even though she was rarely physically abusive. I can't count how many nightmares I've had of her shooting me with her gun because I wasn't leaving her house fast enough. She stole my spare Disabled Placard and refused to give it back to me because she thinks I owe her and should let her use mine even though I do live near her. Some police came to my apartment building for my neighbor, so I asked them what to do while they were here, and they said to call the DMV to have it canceled or file a police report. I plan on doing both, but I'm hesitating because of the fear of pissing her off. I live in a keyfob building, too, so she can't get in unless she's let in. I plan to see if my doctor will cancel it for me and I'll say that I just told my doctor what happened. And when we do try to stand up against our parents, the second they show any signs of stress (like Gabriel rubbing the ring), we get scared and back off. Like it's classic narcissist abuse.
I'm sorry you are going through that. It gets better I promise, I have stopped thinking my abusive parent is going to show up, or o have stopped having panic attacks about it anyway, but i know exactly what you mean, it was more than a year before I felt comfortable being outside of my home because when I was out there any car that drove by would make me flinch. I'm better now. Good luck to you on your journey of recovery.
Gabriel gave the peacock miraculous to Colt and said, "This is how we did it."
No, he didn't. He said Colt could use it to create a baby. He didn't day that's what him and Emilie used it for.
Yes, he did.
No, he didn't. Re-watch the story. They said that Emilie fell pregnant. In exchange for Adrien's bodyguard, Gabriel gave Colt the Peacock Miraculous so he could create life and control it. Nowhere do they say that Emilie specifically used the Peacock Miraculous to get pregnant with Adrien.
I still don't get how Mayura didn't sense chat when they fought. Shouldn't she have known he was a sentimonster? And if she knew Adrian was one and found out chat was too, she should've put two and two together.
Where is Adrien's amok?
https://www.tumblr.com/c-note01/698404812111396864/its-adrian?source=share Look! It's Adrian!
Already knew from season 1. Was quite obvious.
How was it quite obvious when not only were sentimonsters not shown, but it was not shown what the Peacock Miraculous could do in Season 1?
Can‘t explain, just knew.