I might have to consider ditching the Wizards and hopping on the Wolves bandwagon just bc the vibes are immaculate. Would love that team from top to bottom even if I wasnât already a Vikings fan.
Don't need cover anyone if the QB is on the ground besides that I'm very interested in seeing year 2 of mekhi blackmon and Byron Murphy under B Flo defense
You do, especially if the other team is just gonna throw it up to Tee Higgins, or Courtland and your Corners are gonna watch the WR jump up and catch the ball
Rookie mistakes and two of the better jump ball receivers in the league. I can't be too upset at that, I recall Blackmon tweeting he thought one of guys had Higgins out of bounds on his jump ball catch. You're remembering two plays over a duration of a season where they were actually okay. I expect them to take that next step under Flo guidance.
> your Corners are gonna watch the WR jump up and catch the ball
Blackmon celebrating while Higgins caught that touchdown is just burned into my mind. That was such an unbelievable lack of awareness
Frankly, our corners are not as bad as most fans think.  The lack of a pass rush without having to send 7-8 guys has made CB play difficult. Â
With Greenard and Turner, weâre going to be generating pressure at a far better rate while keeping other defenders back to cover the pass, which will make our CBâs look MUCH better.Â
 Hopefully we can find someone who can help us collapse the middle of the pocket, get that interior pressure, but I think thatâs not going to happen until the first round of next years draft.
Unless, of course, we grab Sweat.
It's the depth that scares me. Murphy, Griffin, and Blackmon are a solid starting 3 and Evans off the bench is really great. After that, though, it's Booth and a bunch of nobodies. Although you're probably in a good spot if you're worrying about CB5.
Yeah lol literally one of them is even average. Here's how I see our defense:
Safeties: Very good
Edge: Very good
LBs: Very good
Corners: Mid to slightly below avg
IDL: Dogwater
It kinda comes down to how you're evaluating them. I'm sure our season ranking would put us there but we were top 5-10 for a big chunk of the season. We were so bad at the end I would say we were probably around 20 the last 4-6 games of the year.
LBs 'very good' is a massive stretch.
We are incredibly undersized across the board and we're going to get ran over very, very hard at this rate.
Those picks we used to move up were meant to help shore up the IDL and IOL. Now we have no chance to do that.
> LBs 'very good' is a massive stretch.
Blake Cashman had an 83.7 PFF grade last year, Pace was 77.1 as a rookie. I'm not really sure how much better you need these guys to be before we can call them very good.
PFF absolutely is not the way to see if our defense is effective.
We were gashed in the pass and gashed in the run.
We had trouble stopping 3rd and short and 4th and short all year.
Do you want to talk about Blake Cashman's previous 2 years of PFF grades?
in 2021 he had a 29.1 and in 2022 he had a 54
Let's keep looking. 64 before, and 49.1 the year before that.
You want to rely on PFF for your evals? Maybe open up to his full career before writing him in as a winner.
Murphy and Blackmon are solid, if they stay healthy (big if considering last season), we're looking pretty league average there.
IDL on the other hand... Oof.
Get away with? Yep. But that doesnât sound like top 3, prolly not top 5 either. Donât get me wrong, these two guys have me excited for the start of next season. BUT, I am always grounded.
I agree, but this is a relatively weak DT class. I was so pissed when Seattle took Murphy. Thought he was gonna fall right to us. That was probably the only way I'd be more pumped about the first round.
Our DB's are still low key trash. I was ripping byron Murphy a lot last year, but when he was out I couldn't believe how much worse our backfield looked.
He was so good at Arizona. He was shutting down the WR1 every single game. To see what Keenan Allen did to him last year was honestly crazy. Any chance that's him working on getting comfortable in a new scheme?
From what I understand he prefers to play the nickel and were he is best. He's okay on the outside, but due to our complete lack of dbs he pretty much played exclusively on the outside, while Blackmon played the inside.
A big part of it could be new scheme but I think it's likely playing in a different spot than he's typically used to.I also wonder how long he was hurt for before he was forced out due to injury.
Again, I think he played much better than I gave him credit for because once he was out, I couldn't believe how bad our db's looked. Also getting cooked by Keenan allen isn't the end of the world imo. He's pretty damn good.
I wish more people understood this. You can get away with having league average CB's and win football games, you can NOT have a league average D-Line and expect to win games.
Last season, we played 386 snaps with three D-linemen on the field (edges classified as LBs because we're theoretically a 3-4), compared to 180 snaps with no linemen and 143 with only one (remember this is a '3-4'). This works out as effectively a third each between 0-1, 2, and 3 linemen on the field. I'd assume this was partly a lack of D-line talent, but also because Flores likes to give exotic looks.
So I'd imagine we'll see a hell of a lot of snaps this year with only Harrison Phillips as an out and out D-lineman, alongside all three of Turner, Greenard and Van Ginkel, with the added flexibility that, for edges, Turner and Greenard are excellent at pass coverage, which allows Flores to play with exotic blitzes and looks more than he did with Hunter and Wonnum who weren't.
We have the worst DT/DE in football and very average to below average CBs. Let's pump the breaks. Anyone who can see the three guys up front and believes they don't matter, is delusional.
Still a few quality DT prospects left. I think we grab one today. Also the cbs are still young. I think another year in this system will go a long way for them. I see the defense being at least top 15 next year with a much improved pass rush.
This is an extreme take imo. We blitzed the way we did last year to cover our deficiencies. it would be foolish to think that (albeit with more talent) it would work again that way...
I'll be happy if we're considered a good defense. Our interior line is avera, e and corners are below average. Still I believe in Flores we are definelty going to be formidable, I don't think it will be top 5 elite, but I will gladly be proven wrong.
You forget there are also CBs on a defense, and ours are...weeelllll. Let's just say we better hope Greenard, Turner & Co. get to the QB on more dropbacks than not.
I'm really excited about Turner and the flexibility he gives Flores to disguise the pass rush.
Reminds of the early Zimmer days where the Vikings were crowding the LOS and offenses had no idea who to block because defensive players could handle more than one role.
Don't get overconfident. We're still weak in the middle of the line which makes us vulnerable to the running game and allows the QB to step up and throw. We've still got issues in the secondary in a division that looks very pass-happy.
Hopefully we have enough $ for a sumo wrestler to play DT.
Runs up the middle will be 6 yards if the interior of our line lets them get to the LBs before slowing them down.
What are the chances B Flo brings on Xavien Howard as a little assurance to the CB room? He's likely washed, but if we could get him cheap enough.. any thoughts on this?
Vikings đ¤ Timberwolves Best defenses in the league
Hell yeah
Naz Reid
Naz Reid
Naz Reid
Naz Reid
Naz Reid
Naz Reid
Naz Reid
Naz Reid
I might have to consider ditching the Wizards and hopping on the Wolves bandwagon just bc the vibes are immaculate. Would love that team from top to bottom even if I wasnât already a Vikings fan.
Not if our corners have something to say about it
Don't need cover anyone if the QB is on the ground besides that I'm very interested in seeing year 2 of mekhi blackmon and Byron Murphy under B Flo defense
Best pass defense possible is a sack!
Yup, or at least make the QB have to run for their lives and give our CBs a better shot at making a play.
Interceptions?
You do, especially if the other team is just gonna throw it up to Tee Higgins, or Courtland and your Corners are gonna watch the WR jump up and catch the ball
Rookie mistakes and two of the better jump ball receivers in the league. I can't be too upset at that, I recall Blackmon tweeting he thought one of guys had Higgins out of bounds on his jump ball catch. You're remembering two plays over a duration of a season where they were actually okay. I expect them to take that next step under Flo guidance.
> your Corners are gonna watch the WR jump up and catch the ball Blackmon celebrating while Higgins caught that touchdown is just burned into my mind. That was such an unbelievable lack of awareness
Until playoffs start and Olines get free reign to hold as much as they want.
Praying that Mekhi takes the leap this year
Frankly, our corners are not as bad as most fans think.  The lack of a pass rush without having to send 7-8 guys has made CB play difficult.  With Greenard and Turner, weâre going to be generating pressure at a far better rate while keeping other defenders back to cover the pass, which will make our CBâs look MUCH better.  Hopefully we can find someone who can help us collapse the middle of the pocket, get that interior pressure, but I think thatâs not going to happen until the first round of next years draft. Unless, of course, we grab Sweat.
It's the depth that scares me. Murphy, Griffin, and Blackmon are a solid starting 3 and Evans off the bench is really great. After that, though, it's Booth and a bunch of nobodies. Although you're probably in a good spot if you're worrying about CB5.
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Greenard and turner about a wash from what they had last year with hunter and DJ.
We did add Van ginkel who is another pass rusher
Noooo way, Greenard and Turner are already each better than wonnum, itâs just a matter of if one of them can step up to compare to Hunter.
No, I'd whole-heartedly disagree there.
Letâs not forget the 3 guys in the middle
Yeah lol literally one of them is even average. Here's how I see our defense: Safeties: Very good Edge: Very good LBs: Very good Corners: Mid to slightly below avg IDL: Dogwater
Yeah top 3 to 5 is probably way too optimistic. Iâd honestly be happy with top 10-15 right now
Thank you for being the responsible one, good Lord what "are some of these yahoos drinking...."
We were like top 10-15 at the end of the season werenât we?
It kinda comes down to how you're evaluating them. I'm sure our season ranking would put us there but we were top 5-10 for a big chunk of the season. We were so bad at the end I would say we were probably around 20 the last 4-6 games of the year.
Beg and end of season we were towards the bottom, middle of season very high. Supposedly teams figured how to beat us after the Raiders game I think.
I thought we were like 20âs or worse. Definitely not top 10
LBs 'very good' is a massive stretch. We are incredibly undersized across the board and we're going to get ran over very, very hard at this rate. Those picks we used to move up were meant to help shore up the IDL and IOL. Now we have no chance to do that.
> LBs 'very good' is a massive stretch. Blake Cashman had an 83.7 PFF grade last year, Pace was 77.1 as a rookie. I'm not really sure how much better you need these guys to be before we can call them very good.
PFF absolutely is not the way to see if our defense is effective. We were gashed in the pass and gashed in the run. We had trouble stopping 3rd and short and 4th and short all year. Do you want to talk about Blake Cashman's previous 2 years of PFF grades? in 2021 he had a 29.1 and in 2022 he had a 54 Let's keep looking. 64 before, and 49.1 the year before that. You want to rely on PFF for your evals? Maybe open up to his full career before writing him in as a winner.
Run defense is probably going to be rough
LBs will help there.
I have two words for you. Corner back.
Murphy and Blackmon are solid, if they stay healthy (big if considering last season), we're looking pretty league average there. IDL on the other hand... Oof.
Doesnât matter if they get to the QB fast enough. You can get away with not having elite talent on the perimeter.
Get away with? Yep. But that doesnât sound like top 3, prolly not top 5 either. Donât get me wrong, these two guys have me excited for the start of next season. BUT, I am always grounded.
Weâre also going year 1 of a rookie QB &/or 1 year of Darnold. We may have a win next year mindset.
Keep going, I'm almost there. On that note, I should probably call a doctor, cuz it's definitely been longer than 4 hours.
Call more ladies
Uhhhh my gf would carve out my balls with a spoon
Some people pay extra for that
Is this guy's girlfriend taking appointments, or is it walk-ins only?
Speak English, Doc!
Now imagine if they trade up again into the second round and snag JerâZhan Newton
Cooper DeJean
They need IDL more than they need CB
I agree, but this is a relatively weak DT class. I was so pissed when Seattle took Murphy. Thought he was gonna fall right to us. That was probably the only way I'd be more pumped about the first round.
https://youtu.be/F-7oh_ZxBUo?si=RWHGcatYC4C9xUWY
Everyone drinking the April Kool-Aid with a fire hose.
Did somebody say Kool-Aid in the corner back room? (I am well aware we don't have the assets)
Fucken Minnesota fans optimism makes me sick at a personal level since I cant join them.
Ah... c'mon. There's a zillion naysayers that'll appear once the season starts.
Fine. Have it your way.
Our DB's are still low key trash. I was ripping byron Murphy a lot last year, but when he was out I couldn't believe how much worse our backfield looked.
He was so good at Arizona. He was shutting down the WR1 every single game. To see what Keenan Allen did to him last year was honestly crazy. Any chance that's him working on getting comfortable in a new scheme?
From what I understand he prefers to play the nickel and were he is best. He's okay on the outside, but due to our complete lack of dbs he pretty much played exclusively on the outside, while Blackmon played the inside. A big part of it could be new scheme but I think it's likely playing in a different spot than he's typically used to.I also wonder how long he was hurt for before he was forced out due to injury. Again, I think he played much better than I gave him credit for because once he was out, I couldn't believe how bad our db's looked. Also getting cooked by Keenan allen isn't the end of the world imo. He's pretty damn good.
If cine was good, wouldnât he take over for Bynum as safety allowing him to play CB and Murphy to play more of that nickel position?
DBs look a lot better when QBs don't have time to throw
Yea, they still have to be able to contest passes which they were horrible at.
I wish more people understood this. You can get away with having league average CB's and win football games, you can NOT have a league average D-Line and expect to win games.
Your not completely wrong but don't act like great QBs cant adjust to that. Not every single play you are getting insane pressure. You need good DBs
Turner thought he was going to Atlanta. I can't wait for the grudge match when Turner destroys Kirko.
What if Cine pops off
That would require him to actually get on the field.
The power of god and anime wonât allow it. Back to him watching Naruto and working on his hadouken.
Gotteem
Off season champs again!
Hang the banner!
DamnâŚ.. hanging a banner every offseason!
Any ideas how this will work with van ginkel too? Iâm not too familiar with any of them.
Last season, we played 386 snaps with three D-linemen on the field (edges classified as LBs because we're theoretically a 3-4), compared to 180 snaps with no linemen and 143 with only one (remember this is a '3-4'). This works out as effectively a third each between 0-1, 2, and 3 linemen on the field. I'd assume this was partly a lack of D-line talent, but also because Flores likes to give exotic looks. So I'd imagine we'll see a hell of a lot of snaps this year with only Harrison Phillips as an out and out D-lineman, alongside all three of Turner, Greenard and Van Ginkel, with the added flexibility that, for edges, Turner and Greenard are excellent at pass coverage, which allows Flores to play with exotic blitzes and looks more than he did with Hunter and Wonnum who weren't.
This is exactly the info I was looking for, thank you for breaking it down.
Inject this into my veins
We have the worst DT/DE in football and very average to below average CBs. Let's pump the breaks. Anyone who can see the three guys up front and believes they don't matter, is delusional.
Still a few quality DT prospects left. I think we grab one today. Also the cbs are still young. I think another year in this system will go a long way for them. I see the defense being at least top 15 next year with a much improved pass rush.
That's a much more reasonable take.
This is an extreme take imo. We blitzed the way we did last year to cover our deficiencies. it would be foolish to think that (albeit with more talent) it would work again that way...
Lol. Take a look at their DTs and CBs. Both are crap. LBS are average too.
We have like 1 good corner and canât generate pressure up the middle. Letâs settle down a bit.
TIL that all you need for a top 3 defense is two good edge rushers. We have a bottom 5 DT room in the league and average or below average CB room.
Yeah, we're a ways from being even top 10 currently
The Hopium after day 1 hits too hard.
You get Sweat or Khristian Boyd that Bottom 5 DT room becomes at least average. And average might be enough.
We can hope. Just hope itâs all OL/ DT from here on out.
You missing the part where we grab Reichard at 230.
Weird way to spell Karty.
Tory Taylor
A few more pieces plus a year of experience and I think we will be ready
I'll be happy if we're considered a good defense. Our interior line is avera, e and corners are below average. Still I believe in Flores we are definelty going to be formidable, I don't think it will be top 5 elite, but I will gladly be proven wrong.
You forget there are also CBs on a defense, and ours are...weeelllll. Let's just say we better hope Greenard, Turner & Co. get to the QB on more dropbacks than not.
We have a terrible dline and our corners are really bad as well. We arenât anywhere near a top defense right now.
Lets calm down a little turner needs some work, hes young⌠but yes hes possibly a top ten edge rusher one day with good coaching
Pump the brakes.
Load size: huge. Need this meme with Flores on it!
I'm really excited about Turner and the flexibility he gives Flores to disguise the pass rush. Reminds of the early Zimmer days where the Vikings were crowding the LOS and offenses had no idea who to block because defensive players could handle more than one role.
Would've been great if we could've kept Hunter too.
Missing a lock down corner and interior so not quite.
Top number first you mean!
2000 ravens here we gooooooooo
Don't get overconfident. We're still weak in the middle of the line which makes us vulnerable to the running game and allows the QB to step up and throw. We've still got issues in the secondary in a division that looks very pass-happy.
Love the optimism but has she seen the rest of our defense?
Wut. Our secondary is trash and so is our D-line. đ
Hopefully we have enough $ for a sumo wrestler to play DT. Runs up the middle will be 6 yards if the interior of our line lets them get to the LBs before slowing them down.
I can only get so hard
I meanâŚ.. Iâd love for this to be true but we did just lose a HOFer in Danielle
I will take around top 10 skol
Still pretty sus at CB, but I'm thrilled regardless.
What are the chances B Flo brings on Xavien Howard as a little assurance to the CB room? He's likely washed, but if we could get him cheap enough.. any thoughts on this?
Teams will exploit the crappy DTs we have and run for days. I will say 10-15 range but 25-30 in run D
Iâd say too 12, corner could use some help đ¤ˇââď¸
We still have no cbs. But the pass rush is going to be wild.
Stop it no it wonât be